There are types of games that can be 'acceptable' at 30 fps, these are games that tend not to have lots of 'action' going on, on the screen, a game like The Crew is not a game i would have normally associated with that type, the problem is that at 30 fps most people can notice the difference, which will result in the game not looking all that smooth, one of the counters for this issue is usually to 'blur' the screen slightly to try and smooth things out, but its a fix that many find disagreeable, and it certainly doesn't improve the look of a game. In all cases action games from First person shooters to driving and action combat games, look and handle better at 60 fps than at 30 fps, because the problem is not just with how the game looks, but also with input/controller lag' which can come from having a game run with such a low framerate, which in simple terms means that while none action games will not suffer that greatly from having a 30 fps limit, ones that are heavy on the action, will feel as though their actions are lagged when there is lots going on, on screen, the game will not play smoothly nor will it feel at all responsive, which is why for a game that is heavy on the driving component will suffer if limited to such a low framerate. Ideally if your going to lock a game to a particular framerate, then 45 fps is much better than 30. Recently Eurogamer did an article on this kind of thing that some might find interesting, it covers a lot of the differences and issues with framerates in particular games, but for PC games, 60 fps is pretty much ideal and allows for a more fluid gameplay experience, which 30 fps rarely does.
IN MY MULTIPLE DECADES OF GAMING I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE TRYING TO LOCK FPS.....
Its about be successfully? yes. by screwing your customers.
believe me that is a tactic that can work if done right.. is that something you want?
I have, yes.
I also remember some games having disgruntled customers simply because they couldn't unlock Vsync.
It's not the end of the world - if a game developer locking FPS at 30/60/XX is the worst problem you have...
As for a "tactic"? I've already said I don't care. The normal human eye is never going to recognize more than 30 fps (24 is what the average eye can detect). You are making a mountain of noise over nothing. They could have simply not said anything about locking FPS and you would have never known without looking at the FPS counter.
IN MY MULTIPLE DECADES OF GAMING I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE TRYING TO LOCK FPS.....
Its about be successfully? yes. by screwing your customers.
believe me that is a tactic that can work if done right.. is that something you want?
I have, yes.
I also remember some games having disgruntled customers simply because they couldn't unlock Vsync.
It's not the end of the world - if a game developer locking FPS at 30/60/XX is the worst problem you have...
As for a "tactic"? I've already said I don't care. The normal human eye is never going to recognize more than 30 fps (24 is what the average eye can detect). You are making a mountain of noise over nothing. They could have simply not said anything about locking FPS and you would have never known without looking at the FPS counter.
This is how you recognize a troll. The difference between 30 and 60 a blind man could see, 60 to 120 is also very easy to notice and more importantly, feel. The human eye can see and notice differences up to 300fps. The brain can proces a few times more.
Imagine that PC gamers play on 60hz, 100hz, 120hz, 144hz monitors. 30fps becomes more of a problem the higher you go.
"24 is what the average eye can detect" made my day I swear.
as a side note (as I clearly am not disciplined enough to move on) I just loaded up EuroTruck Simulator 2 with fraps while logged also in a virtual machine (another thing I am doing) and I got 60fps while on the road with traffic.
Now it did appear to me that the game never went above 60 fps which implies its also locked at 60fps.
I am opening to understanding the technical reasons for locking 60fps but at this time ubisoft has not given a reason that makes any sense.
ADDED: oh AND at 2560x1440 running two monitors. (the game was not in the other monitor to be fair, the VM was)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
This is how you recognize a troll. The difference between 30 and 60 a blind man could see, 60 to 120 is also very easy to notice and more importantly, feel. The human eye can see and notice differences up to 300fps. The brain can proces a few times more.
Imagine that PC gamers play on 60hz, 100hz, 120hz, 144hz monitors. 30fps becomes more of a problem the higher you go.
"24 is what the average eye can detect" made my day I swear.
I should just report you for calling me a troll. Obviously, you don't know what a troll really is.
I've played video games on various consoles, PCs and arcades since I was 10 (which was 28 years ago). I have 20x20 vision, as tested about 6 months ago.
The average person will not perceive more than 30 fps in the average video game. Now, if we are going to talk about high end professional eSport competition - then I'll humor claims that someone needs unrestricted (or higher) fps to "compete". For the average Joe playing an average night with average friends on their average console - 30 fps is fine.
This is how you recognize a troll. The difference between 30 and 60 a blind man could see, 60 to 120 is also very easy to notice and more importantly, feel. The human eye can see and notice differences up to 300fps. The brain can proces a few times more.
Imagine that PC gamers play on 60hz, 100hz, 120hz, 144hz monitors. 30fps becomes more of a problem the higher you go.
"24 is what the average eye can detect" made my day I swear.
I should just report you for calling me a troll. Obviously, you don't know what a troll really is.
I've played video games on various consoles, PCs and arcades since I was 10 (which was 28 years ago). I have 20x20 vision, as tested about 6 months ago.
The average person will not perceive more than 30 fps in the average video game. Now, if we are going to talk about high end professional eSport competition - then I'll humor claims that someone needs unrestricted (or higher) fps to "compete". For the average Joe playing an average night with average friends on their average console - 30 fps is fine.
what you posted as your experience is not evidence to your claim.
are you an average person? do you know what to look for? hardly a controlled study
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
This is how you recognize a troll. The difference between 30 and 60 a blind man could see, 60 to 120 is also very easy to notice and more importantly, feel. The human eye can see and notice differences up to 300fps. The brain can proces a few times more.
Imagine that PC gamers play on 60hz, 100hz, 120hz, 144hz monitors. 30fps becomes more of a problem the higher you go.
"24 is what the average eye can detect" made my day I swear.
I should just report you for calling me a troll. Obviously, you don't know what a troll really is.
I've played video games on various consoles, PCs and arcades since I was 10 (which was 28 years ago). I have 20x20 vision, as tested about 6 months ago.
The average person will not perceive more than 30 fps in the average video game. Now, if we are going to talk about high end professional eSport competition - then I'll humor claims that someone needs unrestricted (or higher) fps to "compete". For the average Joe playing an average night with average friends on their average console - 30 fps is fine.
Yea...I am an avarage joe that wears glasses. I can both see and feel the difference between 30 and 60 and 120. Can't say about higher cause I don't have a monitor that goes higher.
Humor claims lol. So you pretty much do not understand that fps are more about gameplay and responsiveness, than looks.
Well since you clearly have so much knowledge on the only way video games should be made instead of complaining about every AAA titles that destroys it's indies competition why don't you just go ahead and start your own game company and create the perfect games for us to enjoy. Clearly nobody since 1995 has made a video game to your standards. Go make your own if it's that easy.
I built and maintained a mod (or rather a custom made map/adventure) in NWN 1 and it was extreemly time consuming not allowing me to play as much as I would like.
and that was just a 'mod' making an entire game I would totally love to do but I know its a fuck ton of work.
anyway...I am trying to break free from this string. I will say I might give the game a chance if ubisoft can provide us with a technical reason with some good level of depth as to why they are locking fps. they would also need to provide context as to why this hasnt been done in the past for PC games.
take care
As has been stated already, this has been done in the past with PC games. I don't know why, but I agree with you that it almost certainly has something to do with all of them being console ports or games that weren't designed specifically for the PC even if they launched at the same time (such as Titanfall, which was locked at 60fps). Also, as others have said, almost every game that has been fps locked on PC has had some sort of workaround to unlock the fps.
I remember reading somewhere on the intrawebs, that the human can not see above 30fps. I assume those who work with graphics and cg would have a better chance at seeing above 30fps, but even then not crazy high fps. If the game plays smooth and the player has no jitter or framerate lag, a cap should be a non issue.
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
There is only one reason I can think of to lock a machine to 30 fps when said machine can go up to 60 and that is to make it appear as if PCs are not any better than consoles.
1080p at 30fps is a flat out joke for 2014 period...full stop...
There is only one reason I can think of to lock a machine to 30 fps when said machine can go up to 60 and that is to make it appear as if PCs are not any better than consoles.
1080p at 30fps is a flat out joke for 2014 period...full stop...
Originally posted by lugal I remember reading somewhere on the intrawebs, that the human can not see above 30fps. I assume those who work with graphics and cg would have a better chance at seeing above 30fps, but even then not crazy high fps. If the game plays smooth and the player has no jitter or framerate lag, a cap should be a non issue.
in the 00's it was pretty much commonly understood to be 60fps. Just like back then resolution actually mattered, now magically it doesnt
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
There is only one reason I can think of to lock a machine to 30 fps when said machine can go up to 60 and that is to make it appear as if PCs are not any better than consoles.
1080p at 30fps is a flat out joke for 2014 period...full stop...
This is how you recognize a troll. The difference between 30 and 60 a blind man could see, 60 to 120 is also very easy to notice and more importantly, feel. The human eye can see and notice differences up to 300fps. The brain can proces a few times more.
Imagine that PC gamers play on 60hz, 100hz, 120hz, 144hz monitors. 30fps becomes more of a problem the higher you go.
"24 is what the average eye can detect" made my day I swear.
I should just report you for calling me a troll. Obviously, you don't know what a troll really is.
I've played video games on various consoles, PCs and arcades since I was 10 (which was 28 years ago). I have 20x20 vision, as tested about 6 months ago.
The average person will not perceive more than 30 fps in the average video game. Now, if we are going to talk about high end professional eSport competition - then I'll humor claims that someone needs unrestricted (or higher) fps to "compete". For the average Joe playing an average night with average friends on their average console - 30 fps is fine.
You're so wrong it hurts, in a racing game 30 frames vs 60 frames is absolutely everything. I went into the .ini file and changed it to 60 and the game is night and day better and is actually fun. 30 frames I couldn't finish certain missions, 60 frames? I destroyed those same races with tons of time to spare. You might not be able to tell the difference but the rest of us can.
FPS caps are there for a reason and have nothing to do with "pushing boundaries"
although the current state of games not being pushed so their is cross platform similarity is a joke though, PC do get a worse experience in some games due to developers wanting it to look the same on xbox and ps (and it probably lines their pockets from the console creators too)
plenty of gamers cap their own FPS rates with vsync or by setting their max FPS to monitor refresh rate x2 +1 (so shall we blame monitor companies for not pushing boundaires too??)
this game will be capped at 60, no doubt someone will figure out how to unlock it further post release too
Originally posted by Nanfoodle 30 FPS vs 60FPS is like saying 720p and 1080p. Most peoples eyes cant tell the diff.
on a PC the differences are radical for both counts
It might be because of the distance of a PC monitor compared to a TV I am not sure.
oh and I typically play at 2560x1440 40-60fps
My old roommate always went on about how much more awesome his PC was then mine and it looked way better on his monitor so I dialed back his res and FPS (resized his icons) and the next time he went on about how much better it looked on his PC I told him. He played for about a week like that and had no idea. The day MMOs added FPS counters on the screen was a bad day for MMOs. Stop looking at FPS counter and just play, you will have more fun.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle 30 FPS vs 60FPS is like saying 720p and 1080p. Most peoples eyes cant tell the diff.
on a PC the differences are radical for both counts
It might be because of the distance of a PC monitor compared to a TV I am not sure.
oh and I typically play at 2560x1440 40-60fps
Most people can tell the difference, its not just visually, but in terms of the game play itself, the higher the frame rate the more fluid the game play is, when it comes to action games, the higher frame rate the better, its not just graphics after all, but the games controls that are affected i would say personally that 45 fps is a minimum standard for decent controls responsiveness, at least in games that aren't just 'interactive stories' but action games.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle 30 FPS vs 60FPS is like saying 720p and 1080p. Most peoples eyes cant tell the diff.
on a PC the differences are radical for both counts
It might be because of the distance of a PC monitor compared to a TV I am not sure.
oh and I typically play at 2560x1440 40-60fps
My old roommate always went on about how much more awesome his PC was then mine and it looked way better on his monitor so I dialed back his res and FPS (resized his icons) and the next time he went on about how much better it looked on his PC I told him. He played for about a week like that and had no idea. The day MMOs added FPS counters on the screen was a bad day for MMOs. Stop looking at FPS counter and just play, you will have more fun.
I lowered my resolution in Skyrim and could tell the difference instantly.
If you changed it on me and I didnt know you did I might not notice right away which is actually very troubling isnt.?
its like the frog in slowly boilng water
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by Pepeq Well for years people have been watching movies at 24 FPS and TV at 30 FPS. Your brain is capable of filling in the missing frames... 60 FPS+ is overkill.
Originally posted by Pepeq Well for years people have been watching movies at 24 FPS and TV at 30 FPS. Your brain is capable of filling in the missing frames... 60 FPS+ is overkill.
I do not own either a PS or Xbox... why in the hell would I care about their frame rates? I play games on a computer and yes I watch movies and TV. These things don't require 60 FPS (if at the correct refresh rate)... you may want faster this and faster that and convince yourself that having 32 million colors is better than 1 million colors or a 90inch display is better than a 30 inch display... but your brain really doesn't care. You give it just enough information to finish the picture, it will finish it. Sure you can bombard it with overkill, but it's not going to do anything more with the information than it did with the information it saw at 24 FPS. It's why movies still use it. It works.
Originally posted by Pepeq Well for years people have been watching movies at 24 FPS and TV at 30 FPS. Your brain is capable of filling in the missing frames... 60 FPS+ is overkill.
I do not own either a PS or Xbox... why in the hell would I care about their frame rates? I play games on a computer and yes I watch movies and TV. These things don't require 60 FPS (if at the correct refresh rate)... you may want faster this and faster that and convince yourself that having 32 million colors is better than 1 million colors or a 90inch display is better than a 30 inch display... but your brain really doesn't care. You give it just enough information to finish the picture, it will finish it. Sure you can bombard it with overkill, but it's not going to do anything more with the information than it did with the information it saw at 24 FPS. It's why movies still use it. It works.
of course it doesnt 'have' to. what the fuck is this? how low can we make the benchmark and still have fun.
I enjoyed the games I played from 20 years ago does your logic mean we should just go back to that level of resolution? Turn in all our HD TVs and give a finger to 4k just because it would make Microsoft and Ubisoft happy?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
people really get over your self. i play PC and console games. Honestly 30 FPS is not bad, as mentioned on page 1 your brain fills in the missing frames thanks to TV being a lower FPS then games. If it was running at 10-20 then complain but for not quite simply shut up about it and play the game or done. Now flame all you want it just proves that your a self centered egotistical moron who thinks just because they spent 1-5k on a computer that they should get the best. no it means you will be able to runs games for years to come. unlike console users who have to upgrade their systems every 5 >>
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Comments
There are types of games that can be 'acceptable' at 30 fps, these are games that tend not to have lots of 'action' going on, on the screen, a game like The Crew is not a game i would have normally associated with that type, the problem is that at 30 fps most people can notice the difference, which will result in the game not looking all that smooth, one of the counters for this issue is usually to 'blur' the screen slightly to try and smooth things out, but its a fix that many find disagreeable, and it certainly doesn't improve the look of a game. In all cases action games from First person shooters to driving and action combat games, look and handle better at 60 fps than at 30 fps, because the problem is not just with how the game looks, but also with input/controller lag' which can come from having a game run with such a low framerate, which in simple terms means that while none action games will not suffer that greatly from having a 30 fps limit, ones that are heavy on the action, will feel as though their actions are lagged when there is lots going on, on screen, the game will not play smoothly nor will it feel at all responsive, which is why for a game that is heavy on the driving component will suffer if limited to such a low framerate. Ideally if your going to lock a game to a particular framerate, then 45 fps is much better than 30. Recently Eurogamer did an article on this kind of thing that some might find interesting, it covers a lot of the differences and issues with framerates in particular games, but for PC games, 60 fps is pretty much ideal and allows for a more fluid gameplay experience, which 30 fps rarely does.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-frame-rate-vs-frame-pacing
I have, yes.
I also remember some games having disgruntled customers simply because they couldn't unlock Vsync.
It's not the end of the world - if a game developer locking FPS at 30/60/XX is the worst problem you have...
As for a "tactic"? I've already said I don't care. The normal human eye is never going to recognize more than 30 fps (24 is what the average eye can detect). You are making a mountain of noise over nothing. They could have simply not said anything about locking FPS and you would have never known without looking at the FPS counter.
This is how you recognize a troll. The difference between 30 and 60 a blind man could see, 60 to 120 is also very easy to notice and more importantly, feel. The human eye can see and notice differences up to 300fps. The brain can proces a few times more.
Imagine that PC gamers play on 60hz, 100hz, 120hz, 144hz monitors. 30fps becomes more of a problem the higher you go.
"24 is what the average eye can detect" made my day I swear.
as a side note (as I clearly am not disciplined enough to move on) I just loaded up EuroTruck Simulator 2 with fraps while logged also in a virtual machine (another thing I am doing) and I got 60fps while on the road with traffic.
Now it did appear to me that the game never went above 60 fps which implies its also locked at 60fps.
I am opening to understanding the technical reasons for locking 60fps but at this time ubisoft has not given a reason that makes any sense.
ADDED: oh AND at 2560x1440 running two monitors. (the game was not in the other monitor to be fair, the VM was)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I should just report you for calling me a troll. Obviously, you don't know what a troll really is.
I've played video games on various consoles, PCs and arcades since I was 10 (which was 28 years ago). I have 20x20 vision, as tested about 6 months ago.
The average person will not perceive more than 30 fps in the average video game. Now, if we are going to talk about high end professional eSport competition - then I'll humor claims that someone needs unrestricted (or higher) fps to "compete". For the average Joe playing an average night with average friends on their average console - 30 fps is fine.
what you posted as your experience is not evidence to your claim.
are you an average person? do you know what to look for? hardly a controlled study
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Yea...I am an avarage joe that wears glasses. I can both see and feel the difference between 30 and 60 and 120. Can't say about higher cause I don't have a monitor that goes higher.
Humor claims lol. So you pretty much do not understand that fps are more about gameplay and responsiveness, than looks.
As has been stated already, this has been done in the past with PC games. I don't know why, but I agree with you that it almost certainly has something to do with all of them being console ports or games that weren't designed specifically for the PC even if they launched at the same time (such as Titanfall, which was locked at 60fps). Also, as others have said, almost every game that has been fps locked on PC has had some sort of workaround to unlock the fps.
If the game plays smooth and the player has no jitter or framerate lag, a cap should be a non issue.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
This has nothing to do with consoles, but with a shitty engine and incapable developers. Sorry.
The PS4 can easily handle 1080p and 60 fps! Plenty of games have shown this and with better graphics than The Crew.
fair enough..
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
in the 00's it was pretty much commonly understood to be 60fps. Just like back then resolution actually mattered, now magically it doesnt
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Like I said in the other topic. If you have the beta installed on PC, you can edit the ini file and remove the 30fps Lock.
Go try and see what happens. /shrug
You're so wrong it hurts, in a racing game 30 frames vs 60 frames is absolutely everything. I went into the .ini file and changed it to 60 and the game is night and day better and is actually fun. 30 frames I couldn't finish certain missions, 60 frames? I destroyed those same races with tons of time to spare. You might not be able to tell the difference but the rest of us can.
on a PC the differences are radical for both counts
It might be because of the distance of a PC monitor compared to a TV I am not sure.
oh and I typically play at 2560x1440 40-60fps
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
FPS caps are there for a reason and have nothing to do with "pushing boundaries"
although the current state of games not being pushed so their is cross platform similarity is a joke though, PC do get a worse experience in some games due to developers wanting it to look the same on xbox and ps (and it probably lines their pockets from the console creators too)
plenty of gamers cap their own FPS rates with vsync or by setting their max FPS to monitor refresh rate x2 +1 (so shall we blame monitor companies for not pushing boundaires too??)
this game will be capped at 60, no doubt someone will figure out how to unlock it further post release too
My old roommate always went on about how much more awesome his PC was then mine and it looked way better on his monitor so I dialed back his res and FPS (resized his icons) and the next time he went on about how much better it looked on his PC I told him. He played for about a week like that and had no idea. The day MMOs added FPS counters on the screen was a bad day for MMOs. Stop looking at FPS counter and just play, you will have more fun.
Most people can tell the difference, its not just visually, but in terms of the game play itself, the higher the frame rate the more fluid the game play is, when it comes to action games, the higher frame rate the better, its not just graphics after all, but the games controls that are affected i would say personally that 45 fps is a minimum standard for decent controls responsiveness, at least in games that aren't just 'interactive stories' but action games.
I lowered my resolution in Skyrim and could tell the difference instantly.
If you changed it on me and I didnt know you did I might not notice right away which is actually very troubling isnt.?
its like the frog in slowly boilng water
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Since you don't get the difference between watching a movie and playing a game in respect to their framerates, check this out http://www.gamespot.com/videos/reality-check-do-we-need-60-fps-on-ps4-and-xbox-on/2300-6415658/
<InvalidTag type="text/javascript" src="http://www.gamebreaker.tv/cce/e.js"></script><div class="cce_pane" content-slug="which-world-of-warcraft-villain-are-you" ctype="quiz" d="http://www.gamebreaker.tv"></div>;
I do not own either a PS or Xbox... why in the hell would I care about their frame rates? I play games on a computer and yes I watch movies and TV. These things don't require 60 FPS (if at the correct refresh rate)... you may want faster this and faster that and convince yourself that having 32 million colors is better than 1 million colors or a 90inch display is better than a 30 inch display... but your brain really doesn't care. You give it just enough information to finish the picture, it will finish it. Sure you can bombard it with overkill, but it's not going to do anything more with the information than it did with the information it saw at 24 FPS. It's why movies still use it. It works.
of course it doesnt 'have' to. what the fuck is this? how low can we make the benchmark and still have fun.
I enjoyed the games I played from 20 years ago does your logic mean we should just go back to that level of resolution? Turn in all our HD TVs and give a finger to 4k just because it would make Microsoft and Ubisoft happy?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
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