Every game is pay for advantage, they just use different currencies. The OP prefers time as the currency while others prefer money as the currency. But since the only thing we truly own is time, and the only thing of value we have to sell is time, and everything we have ever purchased is bought with the currency traded for our time, one has to wonder whether the currency of time is a better or worse deal than direct currency. I won't profess to know either way.
Generically speaking I used to prefer subs, but for the most part I find them to not deliver on the promises of what a sub should (although some are admittedly better than others). But make no mistake -- every game trades something for advantage. Until games prevent you from logging in for more minutes per day than every other player that will be and remain true. It's all a matter of perspective.
Every game is pay for advantage, they just use different currencies. The OP prefers time as the currency while others prefer money as the currency. But since the only thing we truly own is time, and the only thing of value we have to sell is time, and everything we have ever purchased is bought with the currency traded for our time, one has to wonder whether the currency of time is a better or worse deal than direct currency. I won't profess to know either way.
Generically speaking I used to prefer subs, but for the most part I find them to not deliver on the promises of what a sub should (although some are admittedly better than others). But make no mistake -- every game trades something for advantage. Until games prevent you from logging in for more minutes per day than every other player that will be and remain true. It's all a matter of perspective.
Well this was also close to the original argument form the diablo 3 developers, but the effect of having money rather then time as way to progress is devestating. The community, the amthmosphere and the gameplay all suffer greatly from it. Since diablo 3 dropped the action house and became again a purely time based game, improved it a lot, so much even that it is no longer the same game, it is way better!
But I also understand that I shall need to compromise a little if I want to play any recent MMORPG's, I have decided to try final fantasy reborn. The retainers can simply be viewed as a part of the subscription because the price of subscription + retainer is very reasonable. Thought I would had preferred if they had simply raisen the subscription fee for everyone and given everyone 2 additional retainers.
MMORPG prices haven't risen since WoW but a lot of inflation happened since then, so I'm oke with them raising their prices. because this doesn't corrupt the in game world like any microtransaction shall eventually do, especially because pay for advantage is like alcohol for an addict, he might begin with a modest amount but he just can't stop drinking! Before you know it can you buy raid gear upgrades(rift i'm looking at you)
If cosmetic items are already "coruption" then the only pure game will be the one you build yourself. Nobody works for free, except maybe you but I seriously doubt you'll be building anything even close to an MMO.
All that you'll ever be able to do is complain that the world isn't giving you everything for free. Guess what, this for that, it's how stuff works out there in the real world where games are created.
A sub based game without a cash shop might be your hope, but then again, you're paying for the advantage of being able to play the game and somebody who can't pay that, is just temporaily banned until they can and do. Paying for advantage? Sure you're just paying the same amount for the same advantage as everybody else who is still playing.
Rewind a handful of years here and you would have seen on this forum a small handful of posters, including me, arguing against the rise of the so called "F2P'" cash shop model and trying to explain what it meant to games and how it was anti-gamer.
We were attacked and met with hostility. We were called outdated and archaic, and told our time was up and we had better get used to the new way of things, because it was "inevitable" and unstoppable. We were told that no one wanted the level playing field of subs and that we might as well leave the genre.
Well, you know what? You all got what you argued so hard for.
Personally, I am done with it all and a part of me can't help but find where we are now a bit funny.
If its any consolation (it probably isn't) it looks like the F2P bubble is on the verge of bursting, its probably no small coincidence that the most successful games are still, those that incorporate P2P payment options, its kind of ironic, but it might just be that the rise of the F2P games is one of the reasons why World of Warcraft is still as popular as it is, and why games like Eve Online and FFXIV;ARR are doing as well as they are, whereas the history of F2P games tends at times, to be 'a bit messy' with often controversial arguments over how they handle in game monetisation. Maybe thats part of the reason why some of these cash shops that are in F2P games seem a bit OTT with their pricing and item listings, could be their just getting as much as they can before its too late.
This.
F2P "MMORPGs" is on its last legs so don't worry too much about the future of the MMo genre.
If cosmetic items are already "coruption" then the only pure game will be the one you build yourself. Nobody works for free, except maybe you but I seriously doubt you'll be building anything even close to an MMO.
What about subs with no cash shops or B2P + sell expansions? There are other options besides cash shops to make money even though I don't really mind a cash shop that only sells cosmetics.
It begun with a few free to play MMORPG's, but now seems every big MMORPG to have some way to pay for advantage. To let out of game wealth even influence a single pixel in an MMORPG completely and utterly corrupts the role-playing world in my view.
**snip for length**
But I guess I'm alone in this opinion because quite all MMORPG's are moving in the pay for advantage direction. Has any big MMOPRG avoided this "pay for advantage" corruption or is the age of non corrupt MMOPRG's definitely over?
If you're asking if subscriptions are becoming a thing of the past, the answer is 'yes'.
The whole mentality that cash shop = 'pay2win / pay2advantage' is basically a gross overexaggeration, if not a straight-up fallacy in certain cases.
There are numerous games with more than fair business models based around a cash shop. Because this business model is still relatively new, there are obviously going to be many that do it wrong / incorrectly. And we've seen that. However, this 'old world' assumption that subscriptions were the perfect business model is a delusion. Subs had many flaws, and they have not functioned the way they were supposed to for quite some time now. Perhaps, as you elude to, FFXIV:ARR is the last sub game to reliver deliver on a subscription the way they were originally intended to.
However, for that one example, there are many others of sub games that either couldn't sustain themselves, or failed to deliver frequent & meaningful updates, or even to fix bugs and problems within the game using the subscription fee. Subscriptions, for many games, turned into nothing more than excuse to just constantly give developers money every month, for nothing more than the 'privilege' to play a game you've already payed for.
This realization is what gave birth to the whole 'free-to-play' business model and ideology. And in reality, it's actually MUCH more friendly to us gamers. It allows us to try and play games before having to spend money on them (or in some cases, never spending money on them). There is the frustration of certain games that try to do a 'bait and switch' tactic on their players. But it's simple, don't give them any money. It's pretty easy to spot out those developers and to play something else.
However, we've also seen w/ companies like Anet that you can have games with a cash shop, that aren't centered around player advantages. Hell, the only real advantage you can get from the cash shop is to lvl a character / crafting profession faster, which ultimately doesn't matter when it comes to playing the game, being competitive, or being relevant. There's convenience items, but this gets us in to the problem of the original topic.
'Pay-2-advantage' is such a grossly broad term, that you can literally use it to justfiy hating any form of payment. Whether it be a subscription model, f2p, or buy2play. All are forms of 'paying for advantage'. Every single MMO ever made, as long as it involved some form of payment, could be argued as pay-2-advantage. It's a meaningless label that serves as nothing more than an excuse to resist change.
Rewind a handful of years here and you would have seen on this forum a small handful of posters, including me, arguing against the rise of the so called "F2P'" cash shop model and trying to explain what it meant to games and how it was anti-gamer.
We were attacked and met with hostility. We were called outdated and archaic, and told our time was up and we had better get used to the new way of things, because it was "inevitable" and unstoppable. We were told that no one wanted the level playing field of subs and that we might as well leave the genre.
Well, you know what? You all got what you argued so hard for.
Personally, I am done with it all and a part of me can't help but find where we are now a bit funny.
If its any consolation (it probably isn't) it looks like the F2P bubble is on the verge of bursting, its probably no small coincidence that the most successful games are still, those that incorporate P2P payment options, its kind of ironic, but it might just be that the rise of the F2P games is one of the reasons why World of Warcraft is still as popular as it is, and why games like Eve Online and FFXIV;ARR are doing as well as they are, whereas the history of F2P games tends at times, to be 'a bit messy' with often controversial arguments over how they handle in game monetisation. Maybe thats part of the reason why some of these cash shops that are in F2P games seem a bit OTT with their pricing and item listings, could be their just getting as much as they can before its too late.
This.
F2P "MMORPGs" is on its last legs so don't worry too much about the future of the MMo genre.
I both admire and am a bit envious of both of yours optimism, but I don't think I can share it. I think the damage is done and there is no way back from this chasm that we continue to hurtle into.
But, still, gamers demanding anti-gamer revenue models will always confuse me. I thought we were here to play to achieve, not shop for our barbie dolls in a virtual mall and pay for short cuts that allow us to sidestep actually playing the damn game that we signed up for.
Cosmetic items give you an advantage OP...? I mean i can't, i don't...wat...? Yea i'd say MMOs are done for you then if you think buying purely cosmetic items gives a player an advantage, thats just...wow...
Well this was also close to the original argument form the diablo 3 developers, but the effect of having money rather then time as way to progress is devestating. The community, the amthmosphere and the gameplay all suffer greatly from it. Since diablo 3 dropped the action house and became again a purely time based game, improved it a lot, so much even that it is no longer the same game, it is way better!
But I also understand that I shall need to compromise a little if I want to play any recent MMORPG's, I have decided to try final fantasy reborn. The retainers can simply be viewed as a part of the subscription because the price of subscription + retainer is very reasonable. Thought I would had preferred if they had simply raisen the subscription fee for everyone and given everyone 2 additional retainers.
MMORPG prices haven't risen since WoW but a lot of inflation happened since then, so I'm oke with them raising their prices. because this doesn't corrupt the in game world like any microtransaction shall eventually do, especially because pay for advantage is like alcohol for an addicts, he might begin with a modest amount but he just can't stop drinking! Before you know it can you buy raid gear upgrades(rift i'm looking at you)
I haven't ever played Diablo, so I can't speak well on how it has improved. I do know I've heard from many that it has, and that's a good thing. Also, FFXIV is what I specifically was referring to in my "some are better than others" comment (with the 'others' being more directed at WoW itself, which I finally extricated myself from after many, many years).
But I would like to offer one quick thought to you on the topic; you're familiar with the 'everything is currency' argument and have noted that most implementations of it are directly harmful to the community. Now, I do think that community in the past and community in the present is more a matter of changing people and times than just a byproduct of game mechanic evolution (as this effect can also be seen in the evolution of TTRPG's from the late 90's to now, and the first MMO players were the same players of the TTRPG's from the late 90's generically speaking), but even with that aside I do agree that there has been a lot of harm done to the community as a concept from a lot of different directions (not the least of which is overly-permissive developers). However, I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that what -has- happened is what -must- happen necessarily. I think there are avenues of direct currency payment that don't have to be detrimental while still not handing control of the game over to people with the most time; I just think that most of those avenues are unexplored because of the enticing nature of the (morally bankrupt imo) 'whale argument'.
Originally posted by Vesavius....snip...But, still, gamers demanding anti-gamer revenue models will always confuse me. I thought we were here to play to achieve, not shop for our barbie dolls in a virtual mall and pay for short cuts that allow us to sidestep actually playing the damn game that we signed up for.
Hehe When I hear the term "gamers" this image pops into my mind and I can't help but chuckle.
Disclaimer, this isn't intended as an insult to anyone!
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
What about subs with no cash shops or B2P + sell expansions? There are other options besides cash shops to make money even though I don't really mind a cash shop that only sells cosmetics.
Subs are so yesterday. I will never play a sub game again, and given that there are so few of them anymore, i highly doubt i will ever have to even consider it.
What about subs with no cash shops or B2P + sell expansions? There are other options besides cash shops to make money even though I don't really mind a cash shop that only sells cosmetics.
Subs are so yesterday.
I wonder... How many pure AAA sub games exist in the Western MMORPG market compared to pure AAA "F2P" games.
I admit that I haven't done the math.
Most that i see are a hybrid model, offered by devs that seem to know for a fact that the sub isn't "so yesterday". If it was I expect that they would be brave enough to not offer the option, let alone rely on it to financially underpin their games.
It's enough to maintain but it's not enough to grow. People want content updates every other month.
It's certainly possible to build a game that puts out expansions every 2 months but it would cost $50/month in sub fees.
I think we'll see that at some point in the future. Some company will make a game and offer truly premium service but it will come at the cost of a $50 - $100 per month price tag. People will pay that much, I certainly would.
Originally posted by Golelorn Rift, DDO, EQ2, EQ, WoW, Path of Exile, AoC, TSW, EVE, GW, GW2... I mean really guy? Most legit western MMOs are fine. You wanna play for free you're going to lag behind slightly. Its better than not playing at all, imo.
You can actually pay for an advantage in pretty much every one of these games and some of them are even sub fees. The dumbest part is that people equate this to a F2P change when it is just a generic change in the genre. Most of the P2P games also allow you to buy stuff in the cash shop that gives you a leveling advantage etc.
The only real ripoffs left in the genre are the sub fee games. They charge you for the game, charge you for the expansions, probably charge you for server transfers etc, charge you for some cash shop stuff as well and then also ask for a sub fee. The fact people still argue over this just bothers the heck out of me. The only crooks out there are the sub fee games, the F2P games mostly are a better model (not all of them mind you).
People also seen naive about the reason for sub fees in the first place. They used to be there because of bandwidth and server maintenance costs and to a much lesser degree active GM participation. Over the years these prices have dropped to almost nothing. Every other genre of game has dropped monthly or for those of us old enough to remember it hourly fees at this point. MMORPG are just trying to rook you out of money by asking for a monthly fee unless they have huge GM run events constantly which none of them do. There is no reason on earth any MMORPG should charge a monthly fee unless it happens to include free expansions in which case you are paying for future content.
Originally posted by Golelorn Rift, DDO, EQ2, EQ, WoW, Path of Exile, AoC, TSW, EVE, GW, GW2... I mean really guy? Most legit western MMOs are fine. You wanna play for free you're going to lag behind slightly. Its better than not playing at all, imo.
You can actually pay for an advantage in pretty much every one of these games and some of them are even sub fees. The dumbest part is that people equate this to a F2P change when it is just a generic change in the genre. Most of the P2P games also allow you to buy stuff in the cash shop that gives you a leveling advantage etc.
The only real ripoffs left in the genre are the sub fee games. They charge you for the game, charge you for the expansions, probably charge you for server transfers etc, charge you for some cash shop stuff as well and then also ask for a sub fee. The fact people still argue over this just bothers the heck out of me. The only crooks out there are the sub fee games, the F2P games mostly are a better model (not all of them mind you).
People also seen naive about the reason for sub fees in the first place. They used to be there because of bandwidth and server maintenance costs and to a much lesser degree active GM participation. Over the years these prices have dropped to almost nothing. Every other genre of game has dropped monthly or for those of us old enough to remember it hourly fees at this point. MMORPG are just trying to rook you out of money by asking for a monthly fee unless they have huge GM run events constantly which none of them do. There is no reason on earth any MMORPG should charge a monthly fee unless it happens to include free expansions in which case you are paying for future content.
Originally posted by Golelorn Rift, DDO, EQ2, EQ, WoW, Path of Exile, AoC, TSW, EVE, GW, GW2... I mean really guy? Most legit western MMOs are fine. You wanna play for free you're going to lag behind slightly. Its better than not playing at all, imo.
You can actually pay for an advantage in pretty much every one of these games and some of them are even sub fees. The dumbest part is that people equate this to a F2P change when it is just a generic change in the genre. Most of the P2P games also allow you to buy stuff in the cash shop that gives you a leveling advantage etc.
The only real ripoffs left in the genre are the sub fee games. They charge you for the game, charge you for the expansions, probably charge you for server transfers etc, charge you for some cash shop stuff as well and then also ask for a sub fee. The fact people still argue over this just bothers the heck out of me. The only crooks out there are the sub fee games, the F2P games mostly are a better model (not all of them mind you).
People also seen naive about the reason for sub fees in the first place. They used to be there because of bandwidth and server maintenance costs and to a much lesser degree active GM participation. Over the years these prices have dropped to almost nothing. Every other genre of game has dropped monthly or for those of us old enough to remember it hourly fees at this point. MMORPG are just trying to rook you out of money by asking for a monthly fee unless they have huge GM run events constantly which none of them do. There is no reason on earth any MMORPG should charge a monthly fee unless it happens to include free expansions in which case you are paying for future content.
WoW, EVE, GW2= pay for advantage? In what world?
WoW = You can buy lv90 being the most blatant offender
EvE = You can buy plex which is bascailly buying in game currency since u can sell plex for in game currency.
Until I see some type of definition that is universally accepted of what it is that actually gives players an advantage, then I see no point in discussing this. If thats how you feel so be it.
^This
Advantage? What do you describe as an advantage? I can see many MMOs today that have no Pay for advantage options.
Originally posted by Chrisbox WoW, EVE, GW2= pay for advantage? In what world?
You can pay for a lvl 90 character in WoW, that is way more P2W than most of these games which just give you a leveling advantage.
The way Eve works the more characters you pay for the stronger you are by a mile. Someone with 6 accounts has a huge advantage over someone with 1. GW2 gives you a ton of quality of life advantages from spending cash. I have no issue with any of these games but if you are calling games like AA P2W than all of these games are as well is my point. I don't think a game is P2W unless you can't get the same stuff with time spent personally, there are very very few actual P2W games out in the PC market.
[quote]Originally posted by Kinchyle [b][quote] Originally posted by Ender4 [quote]Originally posted by Chrisbox WoW, EVE, GW2= pay for advantage? In what world?[/b][/quote] You can pay for a lvl 90 character in WoW, that is way more P2W than most of these games which just give you a leveling advantage.[/quote]Not an advantage....it's a head start. You people and your crybaby posts[/b][/quote]
You should probably try to comprehend what you read before you insult people. Like I said I have no issue at all with these games, but if you call AA P2W than WoW is certainly the same and that game has a sub fee. This is not a sub fee vs free argument and only morons think it is at this point.
Comments
Every game is pay for advantage, they just use different currencies. The OP prefers time as the currency while others prefer money as the currency. But since the only thing we truly own is time, and the only thing of value we have to sell is time, and everything we have ever purchased is bought with the currency traded for our time, one has to wonder whether the currency of time is a better or worse deal than direct currency. I won't profess to know either way.
Generically speaking I used to prefer subs, but for the most part I find them to not deliver on the promises of what a sub should (although some are admittedly better than others). But make no mistake -- every game trades something for advantage. Until games prevent you from logging in for more minutes per day than every other player that will be and remain true. It's all a matter of perspective.
Well this was also close to the original argument form the diablo 3 developers, but the effect of having money rather then time as way to progress is devestating. The community, the amthmosphere and the gameplay all suffer greatly from it. Since diablo 3 dropped the action house and became again a purely time based game, improved it a lot, so much even that it is no longer the same game, it is way better!
But I also understand that I shall need to compromise a little if I want to play any recent MMORPG's, I have decided to try final fantasy reborn. The retainers can simply be viewed as a part of the subscription because the price of subscription + retainer is very reasonable. Thought I would had preferred if they had simply raisen the subscription fee for everyone and given everyone 2 additional retainers.
MMORPG prices haven't risen since WoW but a lot of inflation happened since then, so I'm oke with them raising their prices. because this doesn't corrupt the in game world like any microtransaction shall eventually do, especially because pay for advantage is like alcohol for an addict, he might begin with a modest amount but he just can't stop drinking! Before you know it can you buy raid gear upgrades(rift i'm looking at you)
I self identify as a monkey.
If cosmetic items are already "coruption" then the only pure game will be the one you build yourself. Nobody works for free, except maybe you but I seriously doubt you'll be building anything even close to an MMO.
All that you'll ever be able to do is complain that the world isn't giving you everything for free. Guess what, this for that, it's how stuff works out there in the real world where games are created.
A sub based game without a cash shop might be your hope, but then again, you're paying for the advantage of being able to play the game and somebody who can't pay that, is just temporaily banned until they can and do. Paying for advantage? Sure you're just paying the same amount for the same advantage as everybody else who is still playing.
This.
F2P "MMORPGs" is on its last legs so don't worry too much about the future of the MMo genre.
What about subs with no cash shops or B2P + sell expansions? There are other options besides cash shops to make money even though I don't really mind a cash shop that only sells cosmetics.
If you're asking if subscriptions are becoming a thing of the past, the answer is 'yes'.
The whole mentality that cash shop = 'pay2win / pay2advantage' is basically a gross overexaggeration, if not a straight-up fallacy in certain cases.
There are numerous games with more than fair business models based around a cash shop. Because this business model is still relatively new, there are obviously going to be many that do it wrong / incorrectly. And we've seen that. However, this 'old world' assumption that subscriptions were the perfect business model is a delusion. Subs had many flaws, and they have not functioned the way they were supposed to for quite some time now. Perhaps, as you elude to, FFXIV:ARR is the last sub game to reliver deliver on a subscription the way they were originally intended to.
However, for that one example, there are many others of sub games that either couldn't sustain themselves, or failed to deliver frequent & meaningful updates, or even to fix bugs and problems within the game using the subscription fee. Subscriptions, for many games, turned into nothing more than excuse to just constantly give developers money every month, for nothing more than the 'privilege' to play a game you've already payed for.
This realization is what gave birth to the whole 'free-to-play' business model and ideology. And in reality, it's actually MUCH more friendly to us gamers. It allows us to try and play games before having to spend money on them (or in some cases, never spending money on them). There is the frustration of certain games that try to do a 'bait and switch' tactic on their players. But it's simple, don't give them any money. It's pretty easy to spot out those developers and to play something else.
However, we've also seen w/ companies like Anet that you can have games with a cash shop, that aren't centered around player advantages. Hell, the only real advantage you can get from the cash shop is to lvl a character / crafting profession faster, which ultimately doesn't matter when it comes to playing the game, being competitive, or being relevant. There's convenience items, but this gets us in to the problem of the original topic.
'Pay-2-advantage' is such a grossly broad term, that you can literally use it to justfiy hating any form of payment. Whether it be a subscription model, f2p, or buy2play. All are forms of 'paying for advantage'. Every single MMO ever made, as long as it involved some form of payment, could be argued as pay-2-advantage. It's a meaningless label that serves as nothing more than an excuse to resist change.
I both admire and am a bit envious of both of yours optimism, but I don't think I can share it. I think the damage is done and there is no way back from this chasm that we continue to hurtle into.
But, still, gamers demanding anti-gamer revenue models will always confuse me. I thought we were here to play to achieve, not shop for our barbie dolls in a virtual mall and pay for short cuts that allow us to sidestep actually playing the damn game that we signed up for.
I haven't ever played Diablo, so I can't speak well on how it has improved. I do know I've heard from many that it has, and that's a good thing. Also, FFXIV is what I specifically was referring to in my "some are better than others" comment (with the 'others' being more directed at WoW itself, which I finally extricated myself from after many, many years).
But I would like to offer one quick thought to you on the topic; you're familiar with the 'everything is currency' argument and have noted that most implementations of it are directly harmful to the community. Now, I do think that community in the past and community in the present is more a matter of changing people and times than just a byproduct of game mechanic evolution (as this effect can also be seen in the evolution of TTRPG's from the late 90's to now, and the first MMO players were the same players of the TTRPG's from the late 90's generically speaking), but even with that aside I do agree that there has been a lot of harm done to the community as a concept from a lot of different directions (not the least of which is overly-permissive developers). However, I don't think it is a foregone conclusion that what -has- happened is what -must- happen necessarily. I think there are avenues of direct currency payment that don't have to be detrimental while still not handing control of the game over to people with the most time; I just think that most of those avenues are unexplored because of the enticing nature of the (morally bankrupt imo) 'whale argument'.
Hehe When I hear the term "gamers" this image pops into my mind and I can't help but chuckle.
Disclaimer, this isn't intended as an insult to anyone!
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Subs are so yesterday. I will never play a sub game again, and given that there are so few of them anymore, i highly doubt i will ever have to even consider it.
I wonder... How many pure AAA sub games exist in the Western MMORPG market compared to pure AAA "F2P" games.
I admit that I haven't done the math.
Most that i see are a hybrid model, offered by devs that seem to know for a fact that the sub isn't "so yesterday". If it was I expect that they would be brave enough to not offer the option, let alone rely on it to financially underpin their games.
It's enough to maintain but it's not enough to grow. People want content updates every other month.
It's certainly possible to build a game that puts out expansions every 2 months but it would cost $50/month in sub fees.
I think we'll see that at some point in the future. Some company will make a game and offer truly premium service but it will come at the cost of a $50 - $100 per month price tag. People will pay that much, I certainly would.
You can actually pay for an advantage in pretty much every one of these games and some of them are even sub fees. The dumbest part is that people equate this to a F2P change when it is just a generic change in the genre. Most of the P2P games also allow you to buy stuff in the cash shop that gives you a leveling advantage etc.
The only real ripoffs left in the genre are the sub fee games. They charge you for the game, charge you for the expansions, probably charge you for server transfers etc, charge you for some cash shop stuff as well and then also ask for a sub fee. The fact people still argue over this just bothers the heck out of me. The only crooks out there are the sub fee games, the F2P games mostly are a better model (not all of them mind you).
People also seen naive about the reason for sub fees in the first place. They used to be there because of bandwidth and server maintenance costs and to a much lesser degree active GM participation. Over the years these prices have dropped to almost nothing. Every other genre of game has dropped monthly or for those of us old enough to remember it hourly fees at this point. MMORPG are just trying to rook you out of money by asking for a monthly fee unless they have huge GM run events constantly which none of them do. There is no reason on earth any MMORPG should charge a monthly fee unless it happens to include free expansions in which case you are paying for future content.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
WoW, EVE, GW2= pay for advantage? In what world?
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
WoW = You can buy lv90 being the most blatant offender
EvE = You can buy plex which is bascailly buying in game currency since u can sell plex for in game currency.
never played gw2, i know blaspheme
^This
Advantage? What do you describe as an advantage? I can see many MMOs today that have no Pay for advantage options.
You can pay for a lvl 90 character in WoW, that is way more P2W than most of these games which just give you a leveling advantage.
The way Eve works the more characters you pay for the stronger you are by a mile. Someone with 6 accounts has a huge advantage over someone with 1. GW2 gives you a ton of quality of life advantages from spending cash. I have no issue with any of these games but if you are calling games like AA P2W than all of these games are as well is my point. I don't think a game is P2W unless you can't get the same stuff with time spent personally, there are very very few actual P2W games out in the PC market.
Not an advantage....it's a head start. You people and your crybaby posts
[quote]Originally posted by Kinchyle
[b][quote] Originally posted by Ender4 [quote]Originally posted by Chrisbox WoW, EVE, GW2= pay for advantage? In what world?[/b][/quote] You can pay for a lvl 90 character in WoW, that is way more P2W than most of these games which just give you a leveling advantage.[/quote]Not an advantage....it's a head start. You people and your crybaby posts[/b][/quote]
You should probably try to comprehend what you read before you insult people. Like I said I have no issue at all with these games, but if you call AA P2W than WoW is certainly the same and that game has a sub fee. This is not a sub fee vs free argument and only morons think it is at this point.
^ Little do these people know paid for 90's have not won anything at all, and generally get laughed at quite a bit.
Played-Everything
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