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It's sad but true, we have lost the sparkle.
Torgrim
Member CommonPosts: 2,088
I only speak for myself here but I bet plenty of others feels the same way.
I made a topic awhile back that plenty of MMOs are around but you/we havent found a home, well my point with this thread are, sadly is we cant find a home for the simple reason we cant and will never find that first feeling, you can argue how much you like how good DAOC were, or vanilla WoW, or AO, or AC, the list can go on, the point is we played those games back then, not now, back when most of us were still in school or early 20s, a new world of gaming dragged us in and we delved deep into it.
Today many of us have played and tried plenty of MMOs over the years and that little special spark hasent been there, sure the games were good nothing special really just fine good ol gameplay with some odd choices here and there and some bugs but overall they were ok, but the spark wasent there, the feeling damn this game is for me, I will play this for years and you STICK it for years hasent been there, the sparkle are gone and you still looking for that special snowflake.
So the point with this rambling are, we have played it all, done that, been there, what is it for us to look foward to besides the holodecks?
So tough luck finding your rainbow.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Comments
Wrong,
Many of us here would love to continue. But now we have :
Lobby games to que for random groups
Carrot on a stick games, where the developers control your game play. Do step 1,2,3 in order
MMOs are too easy, everyone solos
Less than 30 days of content
F2P crap
Dynamic Events, where you don't know anyone. Kill stuff and leave.
So people are trying to hang in there as hard as they can !
I agree to a degree.
For me it is still better than Bars and Women.
Can't go to jail over it (Bar Fights/DWI's) and wont produce (Alimony/Child Support)payments.
See the world and all within it.
Live a lifetime in every minute.
adil
I agree with the loss of the sparkle, in a sense. I will never again feel fear in a game like I did in EQ1 trying to get somewhere as a level 15ish alone. I will never feel the excitement of the first time I got jumped by a shadowblade in DAOC RvR solo. I will never see anything like my first experience with pre-CU SWG again. But the same thing holds true for nearly all games. I can't have my first competitive FPS kill (Rainbow 6 on Mplayer.com in 1999). It all loses luster.
However, the games have also changed with us. The gates to entry have been removed and the need for cooperation have been reduced. The nature of online gaming is no longer new to anyone involved as even the youngest player has been exposed to minecraft servers at a young age. In the end, I don't think it is fair to compare anymore. Just like we no longer compare radio to TV or Pandora. They are different mediums altogether now, serving different audiences for different purposes. Same has become true of mmorpgs, they serve a different purpose than they did 15 years ago.
I'll leave it at: There are still fun games out there and fun people, but it will never be 1997-2004 again.
I'm more of a B&M guy myself. :P
i still like mmos
but i've gone back to old loves of pen and paper RPGs and boardgaming
EQ2 fan sites
QFT.
I self identify as a monkey.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The community was waht made the games to me. These days there is very little of that. You might be in a guild,. but know or talk to 5 people? Less communicationaction with each other. Makes a MMO, well not a MMO really? You might be surounded by other players, but for the most part they are simply in your way.
There is also no risk Vs reward anymore. Just run in there, die 4 or 5 times, get what you need and move on about your buisness. So there is no down side. Loosing EXP or items or nothing. Makes the adventure, i dont know. Less?
I am no longer 20, have a toon of free time, can have people call me at 2am in the morning cause someones epic quest mob is up and we need a 72 person raid to kill it before someone else gets there guild together to kill it.......My time has become a limited factor with wife and kids. That whole work thing.... SO while I like many others dream of the "Good Ole days" I would nevere be able to live in them again. Because while I enjoyed that time. I can no longer dedicate that much of myself, or think i could sit there that long anymore before someone else wanted my attention. WHile i like you guys & gals. My 6 year old daughter beats you all hands down!
Yeah ... that makes MMO better games for me.
It's been several years since I was of the opinion that my best gaming years were behind me - I'm 32 now but have been a gamer all my life. I think that as gamers we can burn out. That's when it's time to take a break. A long break, for at least a year.
Nothing ever stays the same. You can mourn the memories that you can never have again, or you can change your attitude and embrace newer, different experiences. They are out there.
Perhaps instead of trying to recapture those awesome gaming experiences, you need to step away from the computer, and try to find them in real life. Sorry if that sounds condescending, but I have done this, and after several years away I find that gaming is fresh again. I'm a different person now, I'm more mature, I am able to make friends in game easier - I'm better able to prioritise my time so I'm not wasting it on grinding for things that are meaningless. The best rewards in game come from other players.
Nothing would compare with the original Everquest, for example. The game had huge flaws, but it was a masterpiece nonetheless. This was 15 years ago. The time was different. Music was different. Society was different. It was okay not to have in-game maps in a huge, sprawling 3D world. I'll never be able to describe the awesome sensation of EverQuest to anyone - and that is probably really annoying to hear - but it was a virtual world that we won't see again for a very long time.
But there have been many improvements to gaming in general:
The rise of the true sandbox in games. The rise of indie gaming. Gaming becoming more socially acceptable, and more of a mainstream hobby.
So I'm back playing WoW now, but no longer on a brutal PvP server where Horde were grossly outnumbered. I'm on a PvE server having a great time. More than half of my guild is filled with members of the opposite sex, and it's unbelievably flirtatious and crazy. I've never had that experience in game before. Sure I've been in guilds with girls before, but I think we all have matured a bit - and now I've realised that the most important part of the games we are playing are the people you play with.
The game doesn't matter imo, it's the people you play with. Find a game that is still going strong population-wise, and find a server that is 1) populated, 2) diverse, 3) suits you.
The journey will be awesome again. Oh, and if you're playing with people you don't like: get away from them right now. Even if you have to start afresh - get away from stupid, arrogant, or toxic players. Even if this means changing your game. Or not playing a game at all.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
You (gamers in general) wanted sparkles.
They gave you sparkles.
And now you're wondering if there's nothing more. Go figure.
I wonder when MMO gamers (again, generally speaking) are going to figure out that they have been playing Hopscotch. That's it. Hopscotch with sparkling carrots.
Stay in your boxes, gamers. There's no sparkles outside your boxes.
Once upon a time....
This does not describe me in the least. What is turning me away from MMORPGs like crazy are:
1) An emphasis on copying a system of roles that shoves all the teamwork responsibility onto just two members of the party (tanks and healers) and makes damage dealing a role in a game where advancement through solo play is a matter of damage.
2) Make a mess out of the community by copy-pasta use of cross server grouping tools originally added to games as a last ditch effort to fix long wait times due to the role system mentioned in point 1.
3) Stories used for leveling fodder, thus overloading the game with narrative chaos instead of focus on the pacing of the story they want to tell. They need to break up their story telling with different activities that will give the same effect as WoW questing did without using narrative as a blunt leveling instrument.
When two of those three are easily solvable issues if the game design team is willing to put in the hours, and I haven't see a single triple A title address what should have been obvious issues six to eight years ago, being just a bit disgruntled at game developers is perfectly understandable.
I have no idea what this "spark" is you're talking about. I'm just waiting for them to actually fix the above, but none ever do. They just keep pumping out the same base systems that cause the same problems over and over again.
Good post and I kinda agree with you; which is unusual since I never agree with the 'first kiss' argument. Who here can say that their first kiss was better than all kisses thereafter. Not I. But I tend to agree with other posters here who feel that current games have indeed lost their sparkle. Like that chic on The Bachelor.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Given that some games in the past did things (most) games now do not, like: No instances, modular housing, housing everywhere in the world, things to do with your house from simple decoration (signs "This is the house of xyz. Go away!", armor stands etc.), useable chairs) to "meaningful" things like crafting tools, shop, chests etc, meaningful crafting (the different arts as a "class" itself, instead of everyone being dungeoneer + crafter, classless system, factions made up and/or run by players (so actual hierachy, and i don't talk about "get 10000 pvp kills to become emperor and gain +500% damage)...
Speaking about non-MMOs, we had games with multiple endings based on the decisions of the player in the 70s or 80s, that feature got dropped for 20 years and was redisovered late 90s/early 2000s.
Most games also use a rather slow combat system, often with tab targetting and skills on a hotbar. Guild Wars showed you do not need to have 50+ skills, Vindictus works basically without a skill hotbar (there are some, but the combat system itself doesn't need it) and generally features faster combart. It also shows that you do not need set roles like tank, healer, dps. Everyone has tto play each role at a moments notice (though only Karok and Fiona can "tank" at all)..
Ultima Online showed 15+ years ago that you can have a game with no quests and no classes.
Not every feature works for everyone or in every game of course But currently, most MMOs follow the same formula, and the others are usually only doing one or two things slightly different, usually reinventing the wheel instead of doing something actually new anyways.
Maybe i want the skill based system, player housing etc. from UO, but the combat system from Vindictus. On top of that, full 3D movement, with no artificial limitations. Being able to hop over a fence or crawling under, sliding down the hill in hot pursuot or sneaking upon a unsuspection enemy.
Being able to run across a wilderness, stumbling upon a sign saying "there be dragons". I follow it, slide down the aforementioned hill, the trap door opens below me, i fall down into what looks like a natural cave. Following the light that comes from the only exit (besides the hole i came in), i see the cave open into a room with man-made walls. Did i say man-made? Way too big, strange runes everywhere, the lighting is off given that there seems to be no actual light source. I take a step further.. and the blast of wind created by the dragon scooping down knocks me off my feet. [...] A few hours later i made it out of the cave and back to civilization alive. Some of the dragon bone i carved out i hand over to a friendly smith who will try to find out if dragon bone is actually suitable for armor and weapons, the rest will be used to make a dragonbone throne.
So, is this possible in any current game? I don't think so. Would it be possible? The most difficult part would be the natural movement, but thats only a minor point as long as there are some basic things: No artificial limitations like having to ttrigger "climbing over" a fence when it's clear that the characters do jump way higher. No walls that prevents you cutting across the hill that runs along the street. And i mean that. Some games substitute invisible walls with fences that are 20 cm high or simply always have the street run between a ciff that falls off sharp and a vertical mountain side, or alongside a river.
Speaking of vertical mountain sides. Imagine being able to climb up like in Tomb Raider in an MMO. You want to fight a dragon? Well, stealing an egg out of his nest on top of that 500 foot high cliff will certainly make it angry.
Again, simply not possible in current games, while certainly possible with the current technology, as we have seen the individual features already.
Some games run really bad without any reason (like, lots of stuff going on, high detail etc.), some like to set new standards in hardware requirements (Crysis etc.), No one would expect a giant leap towards even more photorealism from a game like that. Some games, like WoW, even made a step back on purpose. So saying it would be impossible to do with todays hardware is wrong, too.
The problem is that the details get pushed way further, both by optimizing based on current hardware, as well as by immediately swalloing the additional power of new hardware. And whats left for physics and animation gets used to animate every single strand of hair or the capes, instead of allowing characterrs to run, walk, jump, crawl, roll down a hill, instead of allowing them to climb up everywhere at their own pace, dropping to any cliff they came across, instead of follow the course of a river and getting dragged down a waterfall..with or without boat.
It's the same as with why many rich people want to do space flights. They have been everywhere on Earth itself already. Now imagine interplanetary flight would be just as easy as travelling from Europe to the US. A whole lot of options opens up. And even then we would still have interstellar and intergalatic flight left.
tl;dr: It''s never gonna be the same as the first MMO, but current games have only explored a small part of what would be possible. It's like Boing and Airbus would simply stop building aircraft and the airlines would no longer allow new bookings. It's possible, we know how do it, but the one who would be in the best position to make it happen simply don't care. So yes, we played it all, nothing new is waiting out there - as long as companies aren't willing to push the limits.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
There's a lot of hyperbole in the OP, Sure we all have some nostalgia for the first game we played in a given genre but I've been playing single player RPGs for many years and I can still enjoy good ones that come out like The Witcher 2 or Divinity:OS. Same goes for music or movies. I dislike most current gen MMOs because of the mechanics not pure nostalgia.
I don't buy the "first kiss theory", mine was with a drunk 15 year old girl (to be fair I was a drunk 15 year old boy) and there wasn't all that much magical about it.
Same with MMORPG's, played Lineage 1 for 6 months, then DAOC which I really enjoyed (2nd all time favorite game), Shadowbane (a great game, if ill delivered) Lineage 2 for 6 more months and finally WOW for a year or so. Then came Vanguard, Lotro, maybe one or two more, but then I found my all time favorite MMORPG, EVE, almost 5 years of subs with up to 4 accounts at a time.
But today's MMORPG's are so different from the early ones, and they really don't play much the same which is my issue.
Last year I spent most of my time playing DAOC. No, not the current commercial version which I loath, but a free shard that was set to a 2003 rule set. Now that was an almost magical experience. Finally I could play DAOC the way I remembered it, the way I really enjoyed it, and I would still be there if they hadn't shut it down for a revamp.
So yes, I could easily go back to the old school days. In fact, I think I'd probably have enjoyed AC1, UO, SWG and some other classics, back in their hey day not the way they've evolved, but there just wasn't time back then, we all spent too much time on a few games because they were so much fun.
If you really enjoyed your first MMORPG, consider it just luck of the draw, there's likely just as many folks who think their 2nd, 5th or 10th MMORPG was the best they've ever played.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think as I had mentioned in that very thread, I did find a good game: Vanguard.
It's the closest to what I thought an mmo would be when I tried my first mmo. I was even subbed to it (not the station pass JUST Vanguard) up to when they announced it was being closed.
It's pretty simple. The very next game that comes along that gives me a "reasonably" good looking "realistic" aesthetic (and not say something like wildstar or WoW) HUGE open world to explore (and places to explore not just land mass) and something that allows me to "not" do quests if I don't want, will get my money and will be my home.
Until then I will dabble in this and that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The first sparkle is not true for me,i have always ADVANCED in gaming but you cannot tell me there is a game right now that has ADVANCED this genre aside from graphics.
I can simply point to FFXI over 10 years ago,no game on this planet uses that kind of combat depth NOT ONE game.Not only are games not matching that kind of effort or advancing it further i am seeing devs get lazier and streamlining combat.
Look at SOE they have taken a decent start with EQ>EQ2 now they dumbed down crafting mats and taken stats away from characters and streamlined them down to 2 stats.Combat will again be weak in EQNext only allowed to use a few choices with only a few stats.
We see games using healing pots,umm ya that is really creative .../not,auto resurrections again not creative.All i have been seeing is a lot of lazy game design with a ton of easy mode hand holding.
My whole point is that if a dev comes along and puts some depth and effort into my favorite part of a game which is grouping and combat "NOT Raiding",i am in there.
Matter of fact i have actually been enjoying Project Gorgon,it gives that feeling of discovering new ideas and abilities and offers freedom,none of that linear questing junk as well it has NO LEVELS and is skill based ,again an idea that should have been realized long ago.
Bottom line is this genre has been literally flooded with identical linear questing games offering ZERO choice to those who do not want that type of game...anymore.So with no choice how could anyone find a new home?
.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
i found myself playing SWG pre-cu again(don't ask me how since this site does not encourage it).
this is the path mmorpg need to go back to to bring back the mmo feel.
i could go into details why swg path is the way forward but it been covered before.
ofc i am not saying completely copy it .it is in dire need of new UI,combat queue and better pve content but the barebones is exactly what we need.
I have 3 sub games going right now, I jump into GW2 and TSW as well. My sparkle is a bonfire, and there is always fuel.
You may be right about a single title OP, but with this much stuff to do I will never complain to much.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.