I tried the beta and actually bought the game even though i was not impressed with performance(was running 20fps on a 280x no matter which setting i used).
But the gameplay was nice and it was certainly fun to play at the start with good humour in it.
So i bought it and planned to subscribe.
however,i found the problem lies in the core game objectives.
Usual hub quests to achieve 40 man raids.
Problem is they failed to remember classic WoW did not get its subs from raiding(indeed blizzard themselves said in TBC expansion that only 5% raided) and even then this 5% could not fill their guild raids with 40 people and even then blizzard changed raiding to make it more possible for others to play.
So it catered to a very few actually as pre raid the game was very generic and further you went more tiring it became quest wise.
So why did the game which had people raving .
I relate back to 2004 when SoE made the exact same mistake.They listened to a selected group who had more time and willingness to spam then others.
As a early tester for EQ2 ,i remember saying that listening to this crowd would kill EQ2(ofc guess who shouted me down).
And indeed it did.Same here.
Remember from a money point of view you are better off having 100 joe averages then 1 mr.uber.
Blizzard knew this thats why when the crowd recognized raid loot they just made it easy for them to get.
The future of mmo to satisfy a good section of both crowds lies in proper virtual worlds of which to date SWG pre cu is best example and sadly came out before the mmo were ready for them.
You cannot support a game with just these elite gamers with their time and quick reflexes. The poor sods like me get left in the dust because for me age makes me slower and I was just not enough and ended up leaving this game. Well looks like people were right you cannot build a game for just the raiders with crazy action combat. May be if it was not so much avoiding and moving more people would have been able to do it. Think that is why WoW rules.
Felt like I was watching the ground in front of me more then my character... PVP looked like a freaking disco club.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Wildstar is a good game both my son and I plus friends got to cap.
The problem is levelling was the only fun thing to do. The difficulty ramp and dubiously awarded gold stars for the best loot in dungeons was MEH.
I do hope developers have learned a lesson from wildstar, hardcore players want a hardcore game but casual players are the ones who will bring in a higher volume of revenue.
If you claim your game is fun from the start which Wildstar did, it had better be fun for all even at cap.
It makes me sad that Wildstar is struggling the way it is, but even I stopped playing. I feel like the game was the perfect example of a raid-focused MMO, I just think that the "MMO Crowd," has moved on from that mentality. I went into that game for Vanilla WoW nostalgia, and while I got a lot of that, I still just kind of felt like I was spinning my wheels. I can't stand the concept of leveling up just to get to the real game anymore. The fans of WoW and EQ are much older and more mature now, with careers and families, and it is just unrealistic to expect that level of dedication anymore.
It really is a shame WS is a wonderful game and I really hope the devs can turn it around. A couple tweaks here and there and I can see myself trying it out again.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
Originally posted by observer What went wrong? Over the top humor. Cartoon art. "Raid or die" mentality. Quest hubs. And the most important, a required subscription.
There is nothing wrong with a sub unless you work at MC'D's and have 5 kids.....
Hmmm, not sure if we are playing the same game. The wife and I love the game, been playing MMO's for years (too many years). This is our form of entertainment and don't have an issue supporting it (spent WAY more on FTP than we really should have, and this game is much less expensive even with the subscriptions).
Content, I noticed that the biggest complainers are the those who BLOW through the content as fast as they can to reach endgame, then demand to be entertained with new stuff. You will never satisfy these people. They are always about the next shinny, and get bored easily. But perhaps it is my play style that keeps me interested. I love a good science fiction, and I love what they did here. A mix of Fantasy and Sci-Fi roled into an RPG.
The physics of the game are solid, and love the puzzles we are introduced to along the way.
Does it have bugs, yes, some are real annoying, but not worth quitting over IMO. The developer knows about them and they need to prioritize the work. Game stopper must come first, before cosmetic. AND THEY COMMUNICATE IT. How many MMO's do not even bother to communicate to their user base? Or even demean them? I can think of two right off the top of my head.
What I especially like is the separation of PVE and PVP. Last thing I want is annoying Leg-humpers who want to duel and tea-bag everyone they come in contact with.
But like everything, there is a never ending stream of opinions either way. I just thought there needed to be a more positive one for a change.
Its a good game, with lots of content and challenges. We have yet go get bored.
There's tons of things that are making WS go down the road of hated mmorpgs, but really, people saying "sub drove me away" have no idea what they are talking. I bought the game and within 1 month I had 1 year of sub via CREDD.
Cartoony style graphics game made for hardcore raiders only ? What could go wrong ?PVP with rated armor and now with 1 h queues or worse ? Too bad about the game,it could have been fun if the developers realized this is not 2004 anymore.
Cartoony style graphics game made for hardcore raiders only ? What could go wrong ?PVP with rated armor and now with 1 h queues or worse ? Too bad about the game,it could have been fun if the developers realized this is not 2004 anymore.
The queues are probably because of their population issues, rather than a design choice though.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Hmmm, not sure if we are playing the same game. The wife and I love the game, been playing MMO's for years (too many years). This is our form of entertainment and don't have an issue supporting it (spent WAY more on FTP than we really should have, and this game is much less expensive even with the subscriptions).
Content, I noticed that the biggest complainers are the those who BLOW through the content as fast as they can to reach endgame, then demand to be entertained with new stuff. You will never satisfy these people. They are always about the next shinny, and get bored easily. But perhaps it is my play style that keeps me interested. I love a good science fiction, and I love what they did here. A mix of Fantasy and Sci-Fi roled into an RPG.
The physics of the game are solid, and love the puzzles we are introduced to along the way.
Does it have bugs, yes, some are real annoying, but not worth quitting over IMO. The developer knows about them and they need to prioritize the work. Game stopper must come first, before cosmetic. AND THEY COMMUNICATE IT. How many MMO's do not even bother to communicate to their user base? Or even demean them? I can think of two right off the top of my head.
What I especially like is the separation of PVE and PVP. Last thing I want is annoying Leg-humpers who want to duel and tea-bag everyone they come in contact with.
But like everything, there is a never ending stream of opinions either way. I just thought there needed to be a more positive one for a change.
Its a good game, with lots of content and challenges. We have yet go get bored.
No one said you and your wife are not allowed to have fun. Even the worst games on market has its fans. WIldstar is well average.
This topic is however about majority of people who quit.
It offered nothing new that was substantive. I'm not a game developer but to me it seems pretty obvious to me that the target audience is sick to their teeth of this format and it's perculiar that with every one of these quest hub disasters they churn out they simply don't seem to get the message.
1) the sarcastic humor wore thin after a few days.
2) the crafting requirement for prestige (i.e mandatory PVP to do crafting) drove off a lot of the PVE and crafting players. The PVE crowd is a major portion of the player base. Many (not all) crafters do NOT enjoy PVP.
3) some people didn't care for either of the faction choices.
4) graphics style choices drove off some folks.
5) Chua - engineering evil masterminds but they can't put together a sentence... some people felt that was a step too far.
6) some players failed to see the case of it being sufficiently different and interesting from wow to make the investment in time and money.
WildStar is great game with huge potential but I believe it suffered from listening to the wrong people when a number of development choices were made. They build a game that gave what they heard players wanted from places like here. The ugly truth in game development is that if you want your product to be financially successful you have to know the difference between what the median player enjoys (read: pays for) and what the advanced players want. The big money comes from the unwashed hordes of average players... most of them have never been to a trade show or conference and most of them don't post ideas on community forums like this one. I fear that means that what most of the game features desired by elite forums posters here may get developed but the odds that the game will be wildly popular are small. I would like to be wrong about this., but I don't think I am.
I agree with everything that is said here however I have to add one thing that is a serious grind on my thoughts about games now a days.
The Subscription issue. Simply put back in 2004 $15.00 for a month was fine, the economy was stable and many poeple could afford it easily... now speed past the rhetoric and stupidity to 2014 and lets look at things. The economy is in shambles, there are better f2p games like rift and b2p like GW2 so I dont see how a company today can post a subscription price of 15 bucks and expect to do well against its competitor that has been in the business for 10 years.
So far 3 out of 4 Americans supposedly believe that the economy isnt getting better as of this week. Now I am not sure who the hell they poll but I have never been asked. Now I can go to the grocery store and see that prices have gone up and contents have gone down. that tuna can which was once 8 ouces is now 5 ounces yet is still the same price. Now does the price being the same disprove inflation?
No. You are paying the same for less content and thats what Publishers are trying to pull off with our games. Look at Destiny. For all the promise and Pinache they fell through on content. Hell look at the Angry Joe review of it and you'll see what i mean.
Publishers and Developers need to understand that they are working for US.. We pay their bills, We pay the CEO's of the Publishing elites, WE, the players are the ones who say Yea or Nae to their games. Without us players they dont have a game to run. Without us players they have no Jobs. It is time that WE the players stand up and demand more for our money.
Dont just take what they give you, test it out, tell them whats wrong with it dont be vague. Tell them it sucks. The quests are bugged, the cinamatics are sloppy, the jokes are lame.. hell tell them the truth.. Its a lame duck game, try better next time.
Originally posted by kilun I played it for about 2 weeks or so, and my son did as well. We both lost interest before cap. The game had no "hook" to hit, and it lacked any real soul, although it looked like it had soul all over it. I think part of it was that the game had way to much of a grind feel to it, Most games you see it, you know it, but short of endgame carrot on a stick, it doesn't feel that way, at least for your first character. It felt that way to me.
This seems about right. It just didn't have that hook to get me in either. It's not something you can plan for or create, but it just didn't have it.
The game went wrong because they pushed release too early. The endgame was not done and not tested properly. They pushed systems in the endgame that divided players. They made dungeons too exclusive and encouraged players to exclude poor players rather than providing an encouragement to group with them.
Compare Wildstar to the most successful release we have seen in terms of retention since LOTRO, Rfit. Rift had equally hard dungeons but it had a much better and developed endgame that kept people playing. Rift was a raud centric game that did very well retaining players the 1st 1.5 years and only collapsed once they made raids too easy. In many ways Rift was like what Wildstar wanted to be appealing to those that wanted hard raids and thought WoW had become too easy. But Carbine did not learn the lesson from Rift and did not release a game with a finished endgame or a game with content for everyone.
I don't think Wildstar was or is a bad game but their endgame was poorly done and Carbine created an atmosphere that divided the community. Not to mention quickly after release there was nothing to do. The raids were buggy and not tested well. Eventually the game could become a very good game but I suspect by then there will so few people working on the game that they will not be able to support the development of new content.
Carbine also talked about their release of new content every 4 weeks. If anyone played the beta the last 1 year plus it was quite obvious they would never be able to come anywhere near close to this goal, They were always slow on creating new content. Although I should note that some of the content they created was pretty amazing. But the reaction time was a;ways slower than one would expect for a AAA MMO.
About EVERYTHING people in beta predicted to go wrong went wrong with the game -while Carbine was too busy padding themselves on the backs for how awesome and hardcore they are.
- horrible performance (fixing this issue will stay forever beyond Carbine's abilities and manpower)
- endgame focus on 40 man raids that stopped working for guilds and players many years ago
- worst implementation of RNG
- hardcore/tedious/grindy everything
- over-the-top everything
- gold sink everything.
- classes that weren't designed to stand out on their own but only to support the combat system
WOW CLONE but tried to CLONE CLASSIC WOW. That sums up the game. They tried the same formula that only worked for 1 publisher. Not like there is not already countless WOW clones out there.
Sadly I think Wildstar tried to emulate classic WoW but the game was nothing like classic WoW. I think a huge part of WoW was its atmosphere and lore, something which can't be tranferred to another game.
Even if vanilla WoW came out today in the form that it came out all those years ago, I would still pick up WoW and not even think about Wildstar.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Going to be blunt here, the community - being mostly hardcore veterans was pretty unforgiving to new players to the genre. This alienated "newbs" really quickly. I have played 15 years of MMO's now and I can't remember a game that felt more "isolating" .
I chased the carrot. I found that by the time I - with 2 kids a wife and a career - actually capped (2 weeks after launch) I wasn't relevant to my peers and didn't have the gear to enter harder dungeons nor did I have the attunement to enter raids.
Weird to say this but it's alienation of good quality players by a rigid structure that's circa 2000 when we were all in college playing shit loads of games between studying and drinking beer.
Comments
I tried the beta and actually bought the game even though i was not impressed with performance(was running 20fps on a 280x no matter which setting i used).
But the gameplay was nice and it was certainly fun to play at the start with good humour in it.
So i bought it and planned to subscribe.
however,i found the problem lies in the core game objectives.
Usual hub quests to achieve 40 man raids.
Problem is they failed to remember classic WoW did not get its subs from raiding(indeed blizzard themselves said in TBC expansion that only 5% raided) and even then this 5% could not fill their guild raids with 40 people and even then blizzard changed raiding to make it more possible for others to play.
So it catered to a very few actually as pre raid the game was very generic and further you went more tiring it became quest wise.
So why did the game which had people raving .
I relate back to 2004 when SoE made the exact same mistake.They listened to a selected group who had more time and willingness to spam then others.
As a early tester for EQ2 ,i remember saying that listening to this crowd would kill EQ2(ofc guess who shouted me down).
And indeed it did.Same here.
Remember from a money point of view you are better off having 100 joe averages then 1 mr.uber.
Blizzard knew this thats why when the crowd recognized raid loot they just made it easy for them to get.
The future of mmo to satisfy a good section of both crowds lies in proper virtual worlds of which to date SWG pre cu is best example and sadly came out before the mmo were ready for them.
What went wrong? To many telegraphs.. The end..
Felt like I was watching the ground in front of me more then my character... PVP looked like a freaking disco club.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Wildstar is a good game both my son and I plus friends got to cap.
The problem is levelling was the only fun thing to do. The difficulty ramp and dubiously awarded gold stars for the best loot in dungeons was MEH.
I do hope developers have learned a lesson from wildstar, hardcore players want a hardcore game but casual players are the ones who will bring in a higher volume of revenue.
If you claim your game is fun from the start which Wildstar did, it had better be fun for all even at cap.
It makes me sad that Wildstar is struggling the way it is, but even I stopped playing. I feel like the game was the perfect example of a raid-focused MMO, I just think that the "MMO Crowd," has moved on from that mentality. I went into that game for Vanilla WoW nostalgia, and while I got a lot of that, I still just kind of felt like I was spinning my wheels. I can't stand the concept of leveling up just to get to the real game anymore. The fans of WoW and EQ are much older and more mature now, with careers and families, and it is just unrealistic to expect that level of dedication anymore.
It really is a shame
WS is a wonderful game and I really hope the devs can turn it around. A couple tweaks here and there and I can see myself trying it out again.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrQoK5VZlwBBzpsksmXtjMQ
There is nothing wrong with a sub unless you work at MC'D's and have 5 kids.....
Hmmm, not sure if we are playing the same game. The wife and I love the game, been playing MMO's for years (too many years). This is our form of entertainment and don't have an issue supporting it (spent WAY more on FTP than we really should have, and this game is much less expensive even with the subscriptions).
Content, I noticed that the biggest complainers are the those who BLOW through the content as fast as they can to reach endgame, then demand to be entertained with new stuff. You will never satisfy these people. They are always about the next shinny, and get bored easily. But perhaps it is my play style that keeps me interested. I love a good science fiction, and I love what they did here. A mix of Fantasy and Sci-Fi roled into an RPG.
The physics of the game are solid, and love the puzzles we are introduced to along the way.
Does it have bugs, yes, some are real annoying, but not worth quitting over IMO. The developer knows about them and they need to prioritize the work. Game stopper must come first, before cosmetic. AND THEY COMMUNICATE IT. How many MMO's do not even bother to communicate to their user base? Or even demean them? I can think of two right off the top of my head.
What I especially like is the separation of PVE and PVP. Last thing I want is annoying Leg-humpers who want to duel and tea-bag everyone they come in contact with.
But like everything, there is a never ending stream of opinions either way. I just thought there needed to be a more positive one for a change.
Its a good game, with lots of content and challenges. We have yet go get bored.
There's tons of things that are making WS go down the road of hated mmorpgs, but really, people saying "sub drove me away" have no idea what they are talking. I bought the game and within 1 month I had 1 year of sub via CREDD.
Cartoony style graphics game made for hardcore raiders only ? What could go wrong ?PVP with rated armor and now with 1 h queues or worse ? Too bad about the game,it could have been fun if the developers realized this is not 2004 anymore.
The queues are probably because of their population issues, rather than a design choice though.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
No one said you and your wife are not allowed to have fun. Even the worst games on market has its fans. WIldstar is well average.
This topic is however about majority of people who quit.
I agree with everything that is said here however I have to add one thing that is a serious grind on my thoughts about games now a days.
The Subscription issue. Simply put back in 2004 $15.00 for a month was fine, the economy was stable and many poeple could afford it easily... now speed past the rhetoric and stupidity to 2014 and lets look at things. The economy is in shambles, there are better f2p games like rift and b2p like GW2 so I dont see how a company today can post a subscription price of 15 bucks and expect to do well against its competitor that has been in the business for 10 years.
So far 3 out of 4 Americans supposedly believe that the economy isnt getting better as of this week. Now I am not sure who the hell they poll but I have never been asked. Now I can go to the grocery store and see that prices have gone up and contents have gone down. that tuna can which was once 8 ouces is now 5 ounces yet is still the same price. Now does the price being the same disprove inflation?
No. You are paying the same for less content and thats what Publishers are trying to pull off with our games. Look at Destiny. For all the promise and Pinache they fell through on content. Hell look at the Angry Joe review of it and you'll see what i mean.
Publishers and Developers need to understand that they are working for US.. We pay their bills, We pay the CEO's of the Publishing elites, WE, the players are the ones who say Yea or Nae to their games. Without us players they dont have a game to run. Without us players they have no Jobs. It is time that WE the players stand up and demand more for our money.
Dont just take what they give you, test it out, tell them whats wrong with it dont be vague. Tell them it sucks. The quests are bugged, the cinamatics are sloppy, the jokes are lame.. hell tell them the truth.. Its a lame duck game, try better next time.
Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT
Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.
Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games
Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery
This seems about right. It just didn't have that hook to get me in either. It's not something you can plan for or create, but it just didn't have it.
The game went wrong because they pushed release too early. The endgame was not done and not tested properly. They pushed systems in the endgame that divided players. They made dungeons too exclusive and encouraged players to exclude poor players rather than providing an encouragement to group with them.
Compare Wildstar to the most successful release we have seen in terms of retention since LOTRO, Rfit. Rift had equally hard dungeons but it had a much better and developed endgame that kept people playing. Rift was a raud centric game that did very well retaining players the 1st 1.5 years and only collapsed once they made raids too easy. In many ways Rift was like what Wildstar wanted to be appealing to those that wanted hard raids and thought WoW had become too easy. But Carbine did not learn the lesson from Rift and did not release a game with a finished endgame or a game with content for everyone.
I don't think Wildstar was or is a bad game but their endgame was poorly done and Carbine created an atmosphere that divided the community. Not to mention quickly after release there was nothing to do. The raids were buggy and not tested well. Eventually the game could become a very good game but I suspect by then there will so few people working on the game that they will not be able to support the development of new content.
Carbine also talked about their release of new content every 4 weeks. If anyone played the beta the last 1 year plus it was quite obvious they would never be able to come anywhere near close to this goal, They were always slow on creating new content. Although I should note that some of the content they created was pretty amazing. But the reaction time was a;ways slower than one would expect for a AAA MMO.
What went wrong with Wildstar?
About EVERYTHING people in beta predicted to go wrong went wrong with the game -while Carbine was too busy padding themselves on the backs for how awesome and hardcore they are.
- horrible performance (fixing this issue will stay forever beyond Carbine's abilities and manpower)
- endgame focus on 40 man raids that stopped working for guilds and players many years ago
- worst implementation of RNG
- hardcore/tedious/grindy everything
- over-the-top everything
- gold sink everything.
- classes that weren't designed to stand out on their own but only to support the combat system
- lack of classes in general
- altoholic unfriendly
- group unfriendly
- solo unfriendly
- skills/spells system
- 6+ month old beta-bugs on release
- (lack of) dungeons
- loot tables, rewards in general
- no pets, no gimmicks, no fluff
Sadly I think Wildstar tried to emulate classic WoW but the game was nothing like classic WoW. I think a huge part of WoW was its atmosphere and lore, something which can't be tranferred to another game.
Even if vanilla WoW came out today in the form that it came out all those years ago, I would still pick up WoW and not even think about Wildstar.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
They released a patch to shrink women's breasts just before release.
Let that be a lesson to all future games.
Going to be blunt here, the community - being mostly hardcore veterans was pretty unforgiving to new players to the genre. This alienated "newbs" really quickly. I have played 15 years of MMO's now and I can't remember a game that felt more "isolating" .
I chased the carrot. I found that by the time I - with 2 kids a wife and a career - actually capped (2 weeks after launch) I wasn't relevant to my peers and didn't have the gear to enter harder dungeons nor did I have the attunement to enter raids.
Weird to say this but it's alienation of good quality players by a rigid structure that's circa 2000 when we were all in college playing shit loads of games between studying and drinking beer.
What went wrong?
Same thing that went wrong with all the other wow clones. We needed another wow clone like we needed a hole in the head.