As a patron I have to say the paywall is high. Patron is needed, and not for land, unless you plan on spending all day online just to regen labor. Labor is needed for EVERYTHING. Yes, you could buy labor potions as a F2P, but with gold bots disappearing, prices will go up rapidly.
In my opinion they need to do away with the whole offline stuff and change it from:
Patron:
10 labor/10min -online
5 labor/10min - offline
non-patron:
5 labor/10min - online
0 labor - offline
change it to this:
Patron 10 labor/10min offline + Online
non-patron: 5 labor/10min offline + Online
I feel generating labor offline is needed for all players. Since non-patron are limited to 2k, giving them offline generation really won't hurt the system at all. As a patron I constantly have no labor points, so I can only imagine a non-patron getting through this game.
It seems all korean publishers love to put in some form of limitation.
Mabinogi - Rebirth system
Vindictus - Token system
ArcheAge - labor system
C9 - Stamina System
The list goes on.
Point is, this crap doesn't work in North America. Most of the games that used these systems have already taken them out over time. I have a feeling ArcheAge will eventually as well. But probably not for a few years.
just haven't played the game or aren't good at "winning" it (to that extent that such a thing is possible).
All you have to do is buy mats off the AH and transport them up/down the continent and repeat.
Takes very little labor and you can net over 10 gold per hour.
30 hours of this and you can afford your own farm so you can multitask. (Or get a farm cart first to triple your income.)
When crafting and milking your farm(s) for the max starts to drain your labor you can use your extra profits to buy worker's comp potions on the AH (current around 10 gold or so depending on server). No dollars required.
Originally posted by boxsnd AA is hated for 2 reasons: 1) it is F2P and 2) it is more popular than any other MMO besides WoW. Fanboys of other games feel threatened when they finally see a F2P MMO that doesn't suck. They are scared that their favorite B2P/P2P MMO will fade into obscurity or will have to switch to F2P to compete. They know that the more good F2P MMOs exist, the harder it is for B2P/P2P MMOs to survive.
Are all those facts?
No I think just his opinion.
Some people sound so sure of themselves around here they could be telling facts. Hard to make a difference sometimes.
Some people clearly know when someone posts an opinion, but go ahead and points out for some reason that they aren't facts, as if we the rest of us didn't know.
Some yes.
However the guy i quoted, not so long ago used redddit, raptr and twitch as some kind of factual statistics to prove AA is the number two MMO just behind WOW.
So yeah i had to make sure. Like i said with some people you never know.
I agree, it needs to be clarified. I don't think that poster meant it to be an opinion. It certainly was presented as factual. What about "it's more popular than any other MMO besides WoW" sounds like it's an opinion?
I dunno, I'll put SWTOR, FFXIV, GW2 up against it to see how they fare.
I don't know, his statements are so 'out there' that i can't help but feel that its just an elaborate form of sarcasm, it would after all make far more sense that way
I recall the thread that poster made recently, he's quoting from Redit activity. So, because there was a lot of activity surrounding AA on Redit, it became the 2nd most popular MMO next to WoW. Mind you, this was based on process of elimination, given that there was really no other data on the subject. So I guess that justifies making huge leaps to conclusions.
I did some edits to that thread. It's not only reddit. It's google trends, raptr and others. The evidence is overwhelming. Also just use logic, man. AA is new, it's normal to be more popular than older MMOs. We will see if it stays that way in a couple of months. I believe it will.
The definition of the adjective "hard-core" in Webster's dictionary is "very active and enthusiastic" (well, the 1st definition. The 2nd definition is... inappropriate, lol)
I count "Willing to put up with tedium in order to progress" as "hard-core" because I reason you must love an MMO a lot more than others do if you're willing to put up with that stuff in it. And the "very active" part goes without saying.
I don't equate "hard-core = skill", necessarily (although skill usually helps). Hard-core is willing to put up with tedious grinds, willing to go out and create a social network with others, willing to research everything online, and I do include "willing to spend thousands of dollars on cash shop items" as hard-core if applicable too (so that whacko who maybe spent $50,000+ to get divine gear in Archeage, allegedly? Yea, I'd label him as Hard-core, too)
(hard-core isn't necessarily a compliment or an insult. It can apply to any guy who goes waaaay beyond what most other people would to progress in the game, be it via play time or cash or anything else)
Again, my point is in Archeage, you need to be hard-core to progress at any remotely decent pace later on. Basically, very dedicated to the game, be it via lots and lots of playtime, research, networking, and in some cases, spending. Something a casual by definition is not. Casuals get to level 50 easily and think the game is casual, but level 50 is just the beginning...
That sounds a lot like dealing with everyday life. Where's the escape in that?
I did some edits to that thread. It's not only reddit. It's google trends, raptr and others. The evidence is overwhelming. Also just use logic, man. AA is new, it's normal to be more popular than older MMOs. We will see if it stays that way in a couple of months. I believe it will.
AA is new, ok. More popular to what demographic though? And "# of threads about game" != subscriber numbers. Unless you can show evidence otherwise, your argument is weak.
I have been excited for AA for years. It's finally out and I have been mostly enjoying it. It's not all rainbows and puppy dogs, but it's still pretty dang good. Also, i am a bit biased as I have 2x 16x16 farms, a 16x16 house and 2x 8x8 plots. I'm a land whore, but i don't cheat like some of the bastards that play. Most my land came from playing early access. I honestly probably would have a very different opinion of the game if I had no land since I do like farming, crafting, etc.
TONS of stuff to do - traderuns, fishing, farming, crafting, questing, pvp, dungeons, the grrrrind (Hasla aynone?). Pretty much anything you do is a grind, but it's pretty fun especially if you change it up. There are a lot of elements in this game that you will just say... wow that was really cool of them. There are also a few things that you will say, wow XL games, you can burn in hell for doing that...
I haven't really PvPed much and I am still trying to find a guild that i like... I play randomly with another friend, but that is what I see as my biggest hurdle with AA. It's very group/guild based. It's an MMO, it should be, but it doesn't exactly fit with my playstyle lately. If you have a group of friends or can find a guild to thrive in, you will really get a lot more out of this game than many folks.
The downside? Economy is like on crack due to bots and hacked accounts. I tried to take advantage of it while i could and it's worked out mostly for me, but it's annoying too. I used to buy Worker comp pots when they were low priced and sell them when they went up in price. That no longer happens oh well. There are tons of bots/hackers playing unfortunately. Sea battles and even fishing raids can get laggy as hell.
That's my vomited opinion of it anyway. It's fun, really fun, but it's meant for group/guilds to play. I am trying to convince another friend to join, but haven't had much luck... so I feel a bit burned out. I will keep looking for a good guild though and see what happens. I think the good greatly outweighs the hackers/bots.
Originally posted by boxsnd AA is hated for 2 reasons: 1) it is F2P and 2) it is more popular than any other MMO besides WoW. Fanboys of other games feel threatened when they finally see a F2P MMO that doesn't suck. They are scared that their favorite B2P/P2P MMO will fade into obscurity or will have to switch to F2P to compete. They know that the more good F2P MMOs exist, the harder it is for B2P/P2P MMOs to survive.
Are all those facts?
No I think just his opinion.
Some people sound so sure of themselves around here they could be telling facts. Hard to make a difference sometimes.
Some people clearly know when someone posts an opinion, but go ahead and points out for some reason that they aren't facts, as if we the rest of us didn't know.
Some yes.
However the guy i quoted, not so long ago used redddit, raptr and twitch as some kind of factual statistics to prove AA is the number two MMO just behind WOW.
So yeah i had to make sure. Like i said with some people you never know.
I agree, it needs to be clarified. I don't think that poster meant it to be an opinion. It certainly was presented as factual. What about "it's more popular than any other MMO besides WoW" sounds like it's an opinion?
I dunno, I'll put SWTOR, FFXIV, GW2 up against it to see how they fare.
I don't know, his statements are so 'out there' that i can't help but feel that its just an elaborate form of sarcasm, it would after all make far more sense that way
I recall the thread that poster made recently, he's quoting from Redit activity. So, because there was a lot of activity surrounding AA on Redit, it became the 2nd most popular MMO next to WoW. Mind you, this was based on process of elimination, given that there was really no other data on the subject. So I guess that justifies making huge leaps to conclusions.
I did some edits to that thread. It's not only reddit. It's google trends, raptr and others. The evidence is overwhelming. Also just use logic, man. AA is new, it's normal to be more popular than older MMOs. We will see if it stays that way in a couple of months. I believe it will.
Well, when I see some real numbers, I'll just take a wait and see approach. Not that it really matters to me much how well AA does. I don't dislike the game, But I won't support this business model.
Yes, you could buy labor potions as a F2P, but with gold bots disappearing, prices will go up rapidly.
I thought the prices would go down, since less gold will enter the game economy.
More gold => Less valuable the gold => inflation
Less gold => More valuable the gold => deflation
You are right to a point, but for items that were dirt cheap from the cash shop, those prices will rise due to a lack of gold circulating. Land plots and everything else not part of the cash shop will decrease in price.
Looking at gold seller prices over the last few days, gold in ArcheAge seems to be inflating at a rate of 25% per day. That's a bit huge, don't you think? I think that maybe bots ARE contributing to economy damage, but keep in mind that bot gold does not circulate unless anyone buys it or the bot owner uses it for something and releases it into the economy. Non-circulating gold doesn't affect the economy as far as I can tell. At least it didn't in WoW. It was more proportional to how much gold the players were making.
I see a lot of people claiming this game to be P2W. I see that a lot of them have really barely scratched the surface at the primary ways you can make gold in this game. I'm here to say that I'm not seeing very much in terms of their examples. As far as I can tell, you can buy to make your progression faster, with either in-game gold OR cash.
I began ArcheAge as a F2P player about two weeks after head start. I subscribed shortly after reaching level 50 because I thoroughly enjoyed playing the game. I made a lot of gold in the beginning from trade caravans in my household - I joined a large guild and two other people play the game in my own home. We all saved up and bought Merchant Ships. Now we each have over 10k gold and are beginning to manipulate the market on end-game goods on our server while making gold ourselves.
I have not bought credits at all. I have not received anything from anyone else except information. I only play between 4-6 hours each day. What I do want to point out is that making money in this game takes two things which the average player sometimes has trouble with - cleverness and teamwork. Making money as a solo player is more difficult, and making money without using clever tactics even more so.
Anybody can, with a few gold, go out into the mountains and start camping thunderstruck tree spawns. Just wait for the trees to flip (Pines are best if you intend to grow) and you have a small chance to get a 'Thunderstruck Tree' worth over 1200 gold. Don't believe any rumors, it's pure RNG and the only thing that will help you is checking zones where the trees grow faster. Trees which take more time to grow have a higher chance of becoming thunderstruck.
The above method requires no PvP in the traditional sense if you do so in non-PvP areas. You will only be competing with other faction members. It also requires almost nothing in terms of Labor Points or investment beyond a glider if you intend to steal the spawns. This method is best done by memorizing or writing down which farms are starting to 'flip' and reach the next stage of the tree. Every state change has a chance to spawn a Thunderstruck Tree.
I hope you all can see what I see in this game. It's helluva lot of fun if you know what you are doing, but it takes time.
So do you think you make money faster than someone who utilizes the cash shop?
We are in a different universe Only? Maybe a week for me. Thanks for posting that info though. I like a game with options and will be checking out AA again now that the queue thing seems to have died down.
We are in a different universe Only? Maybe a week for me. Thanks for posting that info though. I like a game with options and will be checking out AA again now that the queue thing seems to have died down.
I haven't seen our server queued up since 2 weeks ago...there is a reason for that
We are in a different universe Only? Maybe a week for me. Thanks for posting that info though. I like a game with options and will be checking out AA again now that the queue thing seems to have died down.
Friend, I love this game and am having a blast, but I don't think it's for you if that's all you can play.
This is a game of investments, both socially and personally, it isn't really for the casual player.
I am not saying don't try it, knock yourself out, but I am saying go into it with the expectation that it might not be built for your play allowance.
better the have the truth now than try it and be back here in a week complaining how it betrayed you or whatever
While entertaining, AA is far from any reasonable definition of "hardcore". WoW through BC was more hardcore, EQ & EQ2 was more hardcore. AA is mostly a grind and the players virtual slaves to cheaters and the RNG.
Originally posted by angerbeaver It isn't P2W at all, it is Bot to win or hack to win.
This. If not for hacks and bots, this game would be a lot of fun. But sadly there are hacks for everything and trash willing to use them.
Trion is trying, and they ban some people, but so far it's not having a noticeable affect ingame on the housing situation, and still people are using the hacks.
There are many areas where the hacks don't have obvious effects beyond the inflation, but on the housing market it's very pronounced and you can pay for patron and then some, but it won't be enough unless you're willing to buy hacks or pay the people using the hacks for their land.
This is so true. I do enjoy the game and was fortunate to get 2 16x16 plots from a guild mate. He quit the game, said it was too addicting and he would have to spend too much time playing.
I tried to return the favor to my guild. I marked 3 properties that were going to be demolished today. Gathered a few guild mates and went to each property, hoping we could get one. (There were other players at each site other than my guild. Ten to 20 players at each site.)
No such luck. The same player got all 3 properties and he was nowhere in the vicinity.
I am a very social player, so when the first property was demolished I said "gratz " to the lucky player in local chat , only to be admonished for congratulating a hacker/bot.
All 3 properties were sold within an hour after they were acquired by this THING.
Very sad indeed.
Edit to say::
Several players informed me that they have opened tickets on this THING via support and got no response.
Reason for opening tickets, is due to the fact that the THING is never in the vicinity to report it.
Originally posted by boxsnd AA is hated for 2 reasons: 1) it is F2P and 2) it is more popular than any other MMO besides WoW. Fanboys of other games feel threatened when they finally see a F2P MMO that doesn't suck. They are scared that their favorite B2P/P2P MMO will fade into obscurity or will have to switch to F2P to compete. They know that the more good F2P MMOs exist, the harder it is for B2P/P2P MMOs to survive.
Are all those facts?
No I think just his opinion.
Some people sound so sure of themselves around here they could be telling facts. Hard to make a difference sometimes.
"Kids" that think they know everything about everyone.
The reason why I stopped playing is because I couldnt bother doing the boring quests and I could not be bothered right-clicking trees until I ran out of LP. Not my cup of tea. I might eventually try it again, but then just as F2P and if I reach level 50 and enjoy it, I'll purchase sub.
For now, I enjoy WoW again since the directions of what you can do are pretty clear and the leveling is actually pretty decent again.
Archeage is hated because it is a great game that is poorly executed.
Archeage has amazing potential. Anyone playing it would have a hard time disagreeing. However, the game is riddled with hacks, botters, cheats, exploits driving the game and its entire functionality into the ground. Normally, you could ignore these people and go about having fun. However, every facet of Archeage is ruined because of these people.
Want to quest? Get ready to have to compete with bots for every mob. Bot trains scattered through out every quest area stealing mob kills, and just being an absolute terror.
Want to farm (Probably the most enticing thing in archeage), nope. Hackers, exploiters have cornered the market and made it so no one can have a farm without grinding out gold like some kind of chinese farmer.
The lack of farms is honestly the worst part and why it is the number 1 complaint on the forums. Not being able to farm puts road blocks up at every turn. Everything requires you to have a farm, from crafting to trade runs to using the AH.
Archeage is littered with premature road blocks all leading you down the path of grinding gold. If you like to grind gold, then this game is great for you. You will have a blast. If you want to take your time and enjoy the process with farming, crafting, etc, you will hate this game. This game, as of right now, forces you to have to rush to 50 so you can start doing trade runs for gold. Then it forces you to join a guild, because you simply can't do any of that on your own.
Again, great game. Poorly executed. You can start to see why Archeage failed in Korea.
You are the first poster in this thread who actually gets it.
I could log in to my farm right now, but...
To be competitive in PvP, I will need a Delphinad bow, the making of which requires 7x7x7 tier 6 bows, that's around 350 t6 bows, for a cost of 200ish gold per bow. So, around 70k gold to make a Delph. OP claims 10k gold, but does not reveal his gear level, and does not make any mention of PvP. And, I may, or may not, get a good Delph bow. Yay.
I did some edits to that thread. It's not only reddit. It's google trends, raptr and others. The evidence is overwhelming. Also just use logic, man. AA is new, it's normal to be more popular than older MMOs. We will see if it stays that way in a couple of months. I believe it will.
If you want to use that kind of worthless "stats", you have to accept them all... let's relativize:
Yeah, fantastic for a new game indeed... it just get crushed by most of the games the "experts" here say to be dead or dying. You know, like GW2 or SW:TOR, supposed to be almost dead... yet they still have way more players than AA.
Xfire has not been relevant for like 2-3 years now.
This kind of posts are pointless....if you like the game play it...if not then dont. Seriously people need to stop telling others what games they should play.....decide for yourself if you like something or not and stop with this walls of text nonsense....nobody cares if AA is best game in the world...or worst.
"Hardcore" is just a term people use to make themselves feel good about their pixels/polygons achievements.
And why shouldn't they feel good about rising to challenge, getting good at a game, and doing well?
Why else do you play?
It seems like this is just an attempt to demean achievement and or knowledge and/ or skill... I guess it's easier to try and bring others down then it is to rise yourself up though.
Comments
As a patron I have to say the paywall is high. Patron is needed, and not for land, unless you plan on spending all day online just to regen labor. Labor is needed for EVERYTHING. Yes, you could buy labor potions as a F2P, but with gold bots disappearing, prices will go up rapidly.
In my opinion they need to do away with the whole offline stuff and change it from:
Patron:
10 labor/10min -online
5 labor/10min - offline
non-patron:
5 labor/10min - online
0 labor - offline
change it to this:
Patron 10 labor/10min offline + Online
non-patron: 5 labor/10min offline + Online
I feel generating labor offline is needed for all players. Since non-patron are limited to 2k, giving them offline generation really won't hurt the system at all. As a patron I constantly have no labor points, so I can only imagine a non-patron getting through this game.
It seems all korean publishers love to put in some form of limitation.
Mabinogi - Rebirth system
Vindictus - Token system
ArcheAge - labor system
C9 - Stamina System
The list goes on.
Point is, this crap doesn't work in North America. Most of the games that used these systems have already taken them out over time. I have a feeling ArcheAge will eventually as well. But probably not for a few years.
I thought the prices would go down, since less gold will enter the game economy.
More gold => Less valuable the gold => inflation
Less gold => More valuable the gold => deflation
People who think
a) you can't compete without landrushing, or
b) labor limits force you to P2W
just haven't played the game or aren't good at "winning" it (to that extent that such a thing is possible).
All you have to do is buy mats off the AH and transport them up/down the continent and repeat.
Takes very little labor and you can net over 10 gold per hour.
30 hours of this and you can afford your own farm so you can multitask. (Or get a farm cart first to triple your income.)
When crafting and milking your farm(s) for the max starts to drain your labor you can use your extra profits to buy worker's comp potions on the AH (current around 10 gold or so depending on server). No dollars required.
I did some edits to that thread. It's not only reddit. It's google trends, raptr and others. The evidence is overwhelming. Also just use logic, man. AA is new, it's normal to be more popular than older MMOs. We will see if it stays that way in a couple of months. I believe it will.
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
That sounds a lot like dealing with everyday life. Where's the escape in that?
AA is new, ok. More popular to what demographic though? And "# of threads about game" != subscriber numbers. Unless you can show evidence otherwise, your argument is weak.
I have been excited for AA for years. It's finally out and I have been mostly enjoying it. It's not all rainbows and puppy dogs, but it's still pretty dang good. Also, i am a bit biased as I have 2x 16x16 farms, a 16x16 house and 2x 8x8 plots. I'm a land whore, but i don't cheat like some of the bastards that play. Most my land came from playing early access. I honestly probably would have a very different opinion of the game if I had no land since I do like farming, crafting, etc.
TONS of stuff to do - traderuns, fishing, farming, crafting, questing, pvp, dungeons, the grrrrind (Hasla aynone?). Pretty much anything you do is a grind, but it's pretty fun especially if you change it up. There are a lot of elements in this game that you will just say... wow that was really cool of them. There are also a few things that you will say, wow XL games, you can burn in hell for doing that...
I haven't really PvPed much and I am still trying to find a guild that i like... I play randomly with another friend, but that is what I see as my biggest hurdle with AA. It's very group/guild based. It's an MMO, it should be, but it doesn't exactly fit with my playstyle lately. If you have a group of friends or can find a guild to thrive in, you will really get a lot more out of this game than many folks.
The downside? Economy is like on crack due to bots and hacked accounts. I tried to take advantage of it while i could and it's worked out mostly for me, but it's annoying too. I used to buy Worker comp pots when they were low priced and sell them when they went up in price. That no longer happens
oh well. There are tons of bots/hackers playing unfortunately. Sea battles and even fishing raids can get laggy as hell.
That's my vomited opinion of it anyway. It's fun, really fun, but it's meant for group/guilds to play. I am trying to convince another friend to join, but haven't had much luck... so I feel a bit burned out. I will keep looking for a good guild though and see what happens. I think the good greatly outweighs the hackers/bots.
Well, when I see some real numbers, I'll just take a wait and see approach. Not that it really matters to me much how well AA does. I don't dislike the game, But I won't support this business model.
You are right to a point, but for items that were dirt cheap from the cash shop, those prices will rise due to a lack of gold circulating. Land plots and everything else not part of the cash shop will decrease in price.
Looking at gold seller prices over the last few days, gold in ArcheAge seems to be inflating at a rate of 25% per day. That's a bit huge, don't you think? I think that maybe bots ARE contributing to economy damage, but keep in mind that bot gold does not circulate unless anyone buys it or the bot owner uses it for something and releases it into the economy. Non-circulating gold doesn't affect the economy as far as I can tell. At least it didn't in WoW. It was more proportional to how much gold the players were making.
This makes me think of Warren Buffet saying "Anyone with $40 can become a millionaire".
So it is you and your friend effing up the market economy right now? Quit it! Gosh I hope I am not on your AH server cluster.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
You never did answer my question Nuhaine.
Lol, I saw one of those the other day "Do you want an Xbox One or 10 million dollars."
We are in a different universe
Only? Maybe a week for me. Thanks for posting that info though. I like a game with options and will be checking out AA again now that the queue thing seems to have died down.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I haven't seen our server queued up since 2 weeks ago...there is a reason for that
people have quit.
Friend, I love this game and am having a blast, but I don't think it's for you if that's all you can play.
This is a game of investments, both socially and personally, it isn't really for the casual player.
I am not saying don't try it, knock yourself out, but I am saying go into it with the expectation that it might not be built for your play allowance.
better the have the truth now than try it and be back here in a week complaining how it betrayed you or whatever
AA had a sandbox rpg potential
Just like a midnight hour Cinderella princess
It quickly changed into a PtW Zerg fest empty shell
Next plz
****************************
Playing : Uncharted Waters Online
****************************
i hear crickets on the horizon............
This is so true. I do enjoy the game and was fortunate to get 2 16x16 plots from a guild mate. He quit the game, said it was too addicting and he would have to spend too much time playing.
I tried to return the favor to my guild. I marked 3 properties that were going to be demolished today. Gathered a few guild mates and went to each property, hoping we could get one. (There were other players at each site other than my guild. Ten to 20 players at each site.)
No such luck. The same player got all 3 properties and he was nowhere in the vicinity.
I am a very social player, so when the first property was demolished I said "gratz " to the lucky player in local chat , only to be admonished for congratulating a hacker/bot.
All 3 properties were sold within an hour after they were acquired by this THING.
Very sad indeed.
Edit to say::
Several players informed me that they have opened tickets on this THING via support and got no response.
Reason for opening tickets, is due to the fact that the THING is never in the vicinity to report it.
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415
"Kids" that think they know everything about everyone.
The reason why I stopped playing is because I couldnt bother doing the boring quests and I could not be bothered right-clicking trees until I ran out of LP. Not my cup of tea. I might eventually try it again, but then just as F2P and if I reach level 50 and enjoy it, I'll purchase sub.
For now, I enjoy WoW again since the directions of what you can do are pretty clear and the leveling is actually pretty decent again.
You are the first poster in this thread who actually gets it.
I could log in to my farm right now, but...
To be competitive in PvP, I will need a Delphinad bow, the making of which requires 7x7x7 tier 6 bows, that's around 350 t6 bows, for a cost of 200ish gold per bow. So, around 70k gold to make a Delph. OP claims 10k gold, but does not reveal his gear level, and does not make any mention of PvP. And, I may, or may not, get a good Delph bow. Yay.
Xfire has not been relevant for like 2-3 years now.
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
And why shouldn't they feel good about rising to challenge, getting good at a game, and doing well?
Why else do you play?
It seems like this is just an attempt to demean achievement and or knowledge and/ or skill... I guess it's easier to try and bring others down then it is to rise yourself up though.