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Tab targeting autoaim an option over aiming WHY?

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  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Sketch420
    Originally posted by JC-Smith

    The 53/47 number is given to show that there is no way to appeal to both sides completely, and while each side generally feels their side in that matter is the preference of most players, it's really very split.

    This game was designed as an RPG though. Action Mode is something that was added later. I personally play in Action Mode. I prefer it. But I also feel that for a complex RPG that the RPG Mode is better for longevity. Action is exciting, but many MMO players have families they can't give their full concentration at all times. If there was a choice of one or the other it would have been RPG Mode, that's what was functional at the time.

    That having been said after we first took the game to GDC we had quite a few players volleying for action combat. Knowing the numbers and the split, and the fact that pure action combat is harder on the server and more susceptible to cheating, we never seriously considered a full move. We discussed it quite a bit and decided it would not be a good decision. That having been said, since several among our staff, and quite a few players do prefer it we looked for a way that we could make the game more enjoyable to more action oriented players. And Action Mode was what we came up with.

    If players can't enjoy a game if it isn't a full shooter, well there's not much we can do about that. That's their choice. But we feel pretty strongly that if you look at the two player types the solutions we have put in place will appeal to more players than if we had went to one or the other. That's because RPG Mode is at least half of the potential players, and what we have is full RPG Mode. The Action Mode on top of that will appeal to a good number of action oriented players. Certainly not all, but overall the combination of the two is the better choice, because RPG Mode fans generally aren't as accepting of FPS combat as the other way around. Primarily becuse of the concentration and twitch requirement.

     

    The system you describe where players in RPG mode can just hit a button to activate headshot is just a horrible idea if in aim based mode a head shot only works when that ability is OFF COOLDOWN. That = No advantage to playing aim based.

     

    You really could have something different, something many players in many guilds I've played with want. Instead your opting to make your game cater to the lowest common denominator.

     

    I will wait for the next sandbox game that comes out that has combat with high skill ceiling and aim. If I wanted a tab targeted full loot game, I would play eve. Instead I choose to play Darkfall and Mortal Online because in those games when you win, generally you out played, out aimed, and had better timing than the other player.

    Lol, I know it's difficult to see from atop your ivory tower, but did you ever consider that, perhaps, the elitist pigs are the lowest common denominator? Basically, you're suggesting that your preference is what this world needs and there can be no other option without compromising the integrity of gaming. Well la dee da!! You should listen for your door bell over the holidays because I'm sure that executives from all the AAA Publishers are already gasing up their planes to get your perspective on game design. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • F0URTWENTYF0URTWENTY Member UncommonPosts: 349
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Sketch420
    Originally posted by JC-Smith

    The 53/47 number is given to show that there is no way to appeal to both sides completely, and while each side generally feels their side in that matter is the preference of most players, it's really very split.

    This game was designed as an RPG though. Action Mode is something that was added later. I personally play in Action Mode. I prefer it. But I also feel that for a complex RPG that the RPG Mode is better for longevity. Action is exciting, but many MMO players have families they can't give their full concentration at all times. If there was a choice of one or the other it would have been RPG Mode, that's what was functional at the time.

    That having been said after we first took the game to GDC we had quite a few players volleying for action combat. Knowing the numbers and the split, and the fact that pure action combat is harder on the server and more susceptible to cheating, we never seriously considered a full move. We discussed it quite a bit and decided it would not be a good decision. That having been said, since several among our staff, and quite a few players do prefer it we looked for a way that we could make the game more enjoyable to more action oriented players. And Action Mode was what we came up with.

    If players can't enjoy a game if it isn't a full shooter, well there's not much we can do about that. That's their choice. But we feel pretty strongly that if you look at the two player types the solutions we have put in place will appeal to more players than if we had went to one or the other. That's because RPG Mode is at least half of the potential players, and what we have is full RPG Mode. The Action Mode on top of that will appeal to a good number of action oriented players. Certainly not all, but overall the combination of the two is the better choice, because RPG Mode fans generally aren't as accepting of FPS combat as the other way around. Primarily becuse of the concentration and twitch requirement.

     

    The system you describe where players in RPG mode can just hit a button to activate headshot is just a horrible idea if in aim based mode a head shot only works when that ability is OFF COOLDOWN. That = No advantage to playing aim based.

     

    You really could have something different, something many players in many guilds I've played with want. Instead your opting to make your game cater to the lowest common denominator.

     

    I will wait for the next sandbox game that comes out that has combat with high skill ceiling and aim. If I wanted a tab targeted full loot game, I would play eve. Instead I choose to play Darkfall and Mortal Online because in those games when you win, generally you out played, out aimed, and had better timing than the other player.

    Lol, I know it's difficult to see from atop your ivory tower, but did you ever consider that, perhaps, the elitist pigs are the lowest common denominator? Basically, you're suggesting that your preference is what this world needs and there can be no other option without compromising the integrity of gaming. Well la dee da!! You should listen for your door bell over the holidays because I'm sure that executives from all the AAA Publishers are already gasing up their planes to get your perspective on game design. 

     

    I understand with you 1600+ posts and all your lvl 90 World of Warcraft characters in your sig that you're a fan of tab targeting and thats fine, and when I said lowest common denominator I wasn't talking popularity but competitive skill ceiling. There hasn't been a AAA non tab targeting game made yet, so there really isn't much of a fan base for it like world of warcraft has.

     

    Would you really want to play on the hardcore full loot server? I doubt most tab targeting fans really would opt to play on the hardcore server over the normal server (which has pvp areas and no full loot). I am confidant most players that wish to play on the hardcore server will be of similar mindset to me, not players that want to sit back and relax and hit tab and 123456.

  • SuperDonkSuperDonk Member UncommonPosts: 759
    Originally posted by zzax
    Originally posted by JC-Smith

    The Action vs. RPG mechanics are a tricky one for developers to solve. If you go pure Action, you lose half your potential audience. If you go pure RPG you lose half your potential audience.

    If you go hybrid (ie both half-assed) you lose both halves of your potential audience.

    Would rather have half than nothing.

    I think you are right. One of the most frustrating things about the latest generation of games in general is that they try to often to be something for everyone, and end up just disappointing everyone.

     

    As the gaming industry continues to grow, specifically mmos, I think developers need to shift their focus from trying to please as many people as possible, to just trying to fill a niche and catering to a specific audience.

     

    Part of the problem is gamers too, you see it with every release. "This game doesn't have x, y, or z like another game I play, please add". If your old game was so perfect, why not just go back? Stop trying to make every new game a copy of one that already exists.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Originally posted by Sketch420
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Sketch420
    Originally posted by JC-Smith

    The 53/47 number is given to show that there is no way to appeal to both sides completely, and while each side generally feels their side in that matter is the preference of most players, it's really very split.

    This game was designed as an RPG though. Action Mode is something that was added later. I personally play in Action Mode. I prefer it. But I also feel that for a complex RPG that the RPG Mode is better for longevity. Action is exciting, but many MMO players have families they can't give their full concentration at all times. If there was a choice of one or the other it would have been RPG Mode, that's what was functional at the time.

    That having been said after we first took the game to GDC we had quite a few players volleying for action combat. Knowing the numbers and the split, and the fact that pure action combat is harder on the server and more susceptible to cheating, we never seriously considered a full move. We discussed it quite a bit and decided it would not be a good decision. That having been said, since several among our staff, and quite a few players do prefer it we looked for a way that we could make the game more enjoyable to more action oriented players. And Action Mode was what we came up with.

    If players can't enjoy a game if it isn't a full shooter, well there's not much we can do about that. That's their choice. But we feel pretty strongly that if you look at the two player types the solutions we have put in place will appeal to more players than if we had went to one or the other. That's because RPG Mode is at least half of the potential players, and what we have is full RPG Mode. The Action Mode on top of that will appeal to a good number of action oriented players. Certainly not all, but overall the combination of the two is the better choice, because RPG Mode fans generally aren't as accepting of FPS combat as the other way around. Primarily becuse of the concentration and twitch requirement.

     

    The system you describe where players in RPG mode can just hit a button to activate headshot is just a horrible idea if in aim based mode a head shot only works when that ability is OFF COOLDOWN. That = No advantage to playing aim based.

     

    You really could have something different, something many players in many guilds I've played with want. Instead your opting to make your game cater to the lowest common denominator.

     

    I will wait for the next sandbox game that comes out that has combat with high skill ceiling and aim. If I wanted a tab targeted full loot game, I would play eve. Instead I choose to play Darkfall and Mortal Online because in those games when you win, generally you out played, out aimed, and had better timing than the other player.

    Lol, I know it's difficult to see from atop your ivory tower, but did you ever consider that, perhaps, the elitist pigs are the lowest common denominator? Basically, you're suggesting that your preference is what this world needs and there can be no other option without compromising the integrity of gaming. Well la dee da!! You should listen for your door bell over the holidays because I'm sure that executives from all the AAA Publishers are already gasing up their planes to get your perspective on game design. 

     

    I understand with you 1600+ posts and all your lvl 90 World of Warcraft characters in your sig that you're a fan of tab targeting and thats fine, and when I said lowest common denominator I wasn't talking popularity but competitive skill ceiling. There hasn't been a AAA non tab targeting game made yet, so there really isn't much of a fan base for it like world of warcraft has.

     

    Would you really want to play on the hardcore full loot server? I doubt most tab targeting fans really would opt to play on the hardcore server over the normal server (which has pvp areas and no full loot). I am confidant most players that wish to play on the hardcore server will be of similar mindset to me, not players that want to sit back and relax and hit tab and 123456.

    First of all, yes, I do love me some WoW. You're not wrong that I love tab targeting. You would also be completely correct assuming I'm nothing but a filthy casual. However, I was young once and I like to think that I have a pretty good understanding of both camps. I have played games like TERA and Dragon Nest which both use manual aim. I've also played in The Repop alpha and I used the manual aim option as well (just to mix things up). All I'm saying is that there are opportunities to balance combat between the two. There can be advantages to aiming manually which make it a disadvantage to auto aim, which could counteract whatever advantage might be gained through aiming manually. So, as I mentioned, if you're using a hit stat, it would be possible that when aiming manually, you don't rely on that hit stat at all, it's only about whether or not you actually have the retical on the enemy. Same goes for headshot, maybe your critical stat is also based on your precision with aiming (skill based) instead of stat based (like a Crit stat). This all means that you're also able to spend those points elsewhere. Does that make sense? That's what I'm trying to say, I'm not trying to argue that tab targeting requires more skill than manual aim. I'm just saying that there are ways to balance the system where two players at the top of their respective aiming choice could be competitive. 

     

    Sure, actually I recently backed Shards Online where I have plans to create a hardcore shard. I don't detest hardcore gameplay. I've been arond long enough to have some experience with it. However, I will admit that I am getting older and my reflexes are not what they once were. My teenage son now regularly kicks my butt at most console games we play. However, I will likely create a hardcore character. Once he's dead and gone, though, I'll probably just put put along to the casual PvE side of things. I enjoy the tuning and competitiveness of hardcore, but it still leaves me with that sickening feeling whenever permadeath is involved, but I do it anyway. Maybe I just hate myself :)

     

    Anyway, balance is the key, not outright exclusion. There will always be an excuse anyway. Lag spike! Disconnection! Botter! Whatever the case. So, really, what's one more? It's so rare that I hear someone on a hardcore server utter words like, "Wow, I suck, you really kicked my butt fair and square." that I'm surprised more people aren't stoked about having another excuse. Think about it! "BS!!!! That guy was obviously using tab targeting." :)

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • HowbadisbadHowbadisbad Member UncommonPosts: 453


    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Sketch420

    Originally posted by Alumicard Afaik the difference is this: With tab target/auto aim you do 100dmg constantly but with aiming you can do headshots with increase the dmg to let's say 150. Personally I'd do tab target in PvE and trying to headshot people in PvP. I think it is an interesting concept and hope they balance it right.
      I really have a hard time understanding why the biggest selling point of the game, is made completely trivial by a 10+ year old standard mmo tab targeting system. Competitive players will be waiting for the next game I suppose.    
    "Biggest selling point of the game".. Wait, what? Do you know anything about this game? It's a revisit to ideas in SWG and UO this isn't just another Darkfall or MO... IT's a community building game, not a bloodsport.


    Darkfall, Mortal, and EVE (The bloodsports) are very community driven...

    Waiting for:
    The Repopulation
    Albion Online

  • Zarf42Zarf42 Member Posts: 250
    Originally posted by zzax
    Originally posted by JC-Smith

    The Action vs. RPG mechanics are a tricky one for developers to solve. If you go pure Action, you lose half your potential audience. If you go pure RPG you lose half your potential audience.

    If you go hybrid (ie both half-assed) you lose both halves of your potential audience.

    Would rather have half than nothing.

    Have you played the game?  Everyone likes to make grand statements about something they know nothing about.

  • BooshooBooshoo Member UncommonPosts: 15

    There will be a hardcore server with the rule  set not yet set in stone. Things like full loot and aiming mode have not yet been decided but I am pretty sure that devs will cater for all the folks - casual and h/c ones.

    Keep calm and wait for beta... or sign up for steam-alpha stage 4 and enjoy it straight away :D

  • ManasongManasong Member Posts: 208
    Originally posted by Sketch420
    Originally posted by Alumicard

    Afaik the difference is this:

    With tab target/auto aim you do 100dmg constantly but with aiming you can do headshots with increase the dmg to let's say 150. Personally I'd do tab target in PvE and trying to headshot people in PvP. I think it is an interesting concept and hope they balance it right.

     

    That is not how it actually works. Shooting any part of a player does the exact same damage. Tab Targeting = Easy Mode and makes FPS mode make no sense. Straight from a devs mouth.

     

    I really have a hard time understanding why the biggest selling point of the game, is made completely trivial by a 10+ year old standard mmo tab targeting system. Competitive players will be waiting for the next game I suppose.

     

    Not sure why they can't make the hardcore server aim only, that would solve the problem and allow casual players that prefer tab targeting to play on the normal server which they most likely will anyway.

    Yeah, no. Tab targetting does not immediately implies its not a competitive game.

     

    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Sketch420
    Originally posted by JC-Smith

    The 53/47 number is given to show that there is no way to appeal to both sides completely, and while each side generally feels their side in that matter is the preference of most players, it's really very split.

    This game was designed as an RPG though. Action Mode is something that was added later. I personally play in Action Mode. I prefer it. But I also feel that for a complex RPG that the RPG Mode is better for longevity. Action is exciting, but many MMO players have families they can't give their full concentration at all times. If there was a choice of one or the other it would have been RPG Mode, that's what was functional at the time.

    That having been said after we first took the game to GDC we had quite a few players volleying for action combat. Knowing the numbers and the split, and the fact that pure action combat is harder on the server and more susceptible to cheating, we never seriously considered a full move. We discussed it quite a bit and decided it would not be a good decision. That having been said, since several among our staff, and quite a few players do prefer it we looked for a way that we could make the game more enjoyable to more action oriented players. And Action Mode was what we came up with.

    If players can't enjoy a game if it isn't a full shooter, well there's not much we can do about that. That's their choice. But we feel pretty strongly that if you look at the two player types the solutions we have put in place will appeal to more players than if we had went to one or the other. That's because RPG Mode is at least half of the potential players, and what we have is full RPG Mode. The Action Mode on top of that will appeal to a good number of action oriented players. Certainly not all, but overall the combination of the two is the better choice, because RPG Mode fans generally aren't as accepting of FPS combat as the other way around. Primarily becuse of the concentration and twitch requirement.

     

    The system you describe where players in RPG mode can just hit a button to activate headshot is just a horrible idea if in aim based mode a head shot only works when that ability is OFF COOLDOWN. That = No advantage to playing aim based.

     

    You really could have something different, something many players in many guilds I've played with want. Instead your opting to make your game cater to the lowest common denominator.

     

    I will wait for the next sandbox game that comes out that has combat with high skill ceiling and aim. If I wanted a tab targeted full loot game, I would play eve. Instead I choose to play Darkfall and Mortal Online because in those games when you win, generally you out played, out aimed, and had better timing than the other player.

    Lol, I know it's difficult to see from atop your ivory tower, but did you ever consider that, perhaps, the elitist pigs are the lowest common denominator? Basically, you're suggesting that your preference is what this world needs and there can be no other option without compromising the integrity of gaming. Well la dee da!! You should listen for your door bell over the holidays because I'm sure that executives from all the AAA Publishers are already gasing up their planes to get your perspective on game design. 

    Lowest common denominator means the average majority of players, elitists are the minority and not the lowest common denominator.

     

    Originally posted by fiftyplusgeek
    Originally posted by Zarf42
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Sketch420
    Originally posted by Alumicard

    Afaik the difference is this:

    With tab target/auto aim you do 100dmg constantly but with aiming you can do headshots with increase the dmg to let's say 150. Personally I'd do tab target in PvE and trying to headshot people in PvP. I think it is an interesting concept and hope they balance it right.

    I really have a hard time understanding why the biggest selling point of the game, is made completely trivial by a 10+ year old standard mmo tab targeting system. Competitive players will be waiting for the next game I suppose.

    "Biggest selling point of the game".. Wait, what? Do you know anything about this game? It's a revisit to ideas in SWG and UO this isn't just another Darkfall or MO... IT's a community building game, not a bloodsport.

    I really hope this is true. We shall see.

    Be prepared for a disappointment.

    It should be a illegal to use the words 'community' and 'mmo' in the same sentence anymore. The concept of a community left MMOs a long time ago, I'm afraid.

    Lolwat, this game was inspired by shadowbane and swg, have you even seen the amount of player built stuff you can do? To imply this game might not be community driven is nonsense.

  • SatsunoryuSatsunoryu Member UncommonPosts: 285
    It should be one or the other.
  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Member CommonPosts: 682
    Originally posted by Manasong

    Lolwat, this game was inspired by shadowbane and swg, have you even seen the amount of player built stuff you can do? To imply this game might not be community driven is nonsense.

    Oh my gosh! Really?

    I'd forgotten player-built stuff ensures a great community. My bad.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Member CommonPosts: 682
    Originally posted by zzax

    If you go hybrid (ie both half-assed) you lose both halves of your potential audience.

    Would rather have half than nothing.

    If you try to be all things to everyone  you usually wind up being not much of anything to anyone.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • ZhjrisZhjris Member UncommonPosts: 20
    Originally posted by Sketch420
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk
    Originally posted by Sketch420
    Originally posted by JC-Smith

    The 53/47 number is given to show that there is no way to appeal to both sides completely, and while each side generally feels their side in that matter is the preference of most players, it's really very split.

    This game was designed as an RPG though. Action Mode is something that was added later. I personally play in Action Mode. I prefer it. But I also feel that for a complex RPG that the RPG Mode is better for longevity. Action is exciting, but many MMO players have families they can't give their full concentration at all times. If there was a choice of one or the other it would have been RPG Mode, that's what was functional at the time.

    That having been said after we first took the game to GDC we had quite a few players volleying for action combat. Knowing the numbers and the split, and the fact that pure action combat is harder on the server and more susceptible to cheating, we never seriously considered a full move. We discussed it quite a bit and decided it would not be a good decision. That having been said, since several among our staff, and quite a few players do prefer it we looked for a way that we could make the game more enjoyable to more action oriented players. And Action Mode was what we came up with.

    If players can't enjoy a game if it isn't a full shooter, well there's not much we can do about that. That's their choice. But we feel pretty strongly that if you look at the two player types the solutions we have put in place will appeal to more players than if we had went to one or the other. That's because RPG Mode is at least half of the potential players, and what we have is full RPG Mode. The Action Mode on top of that will appeal to a good number of action oriented players. Certainly not all, but overall the combination of the two is the better choice, because RPG Mode fans generally aren't as accepting of FPS combat as the other way around. Primarily becuse of the concentration and twitch requirement.

     

    The system you describe where players in RPG mode can just hit a button to activate headshot is just a horrible idea if in aim based mode a head shot only works when that ability is OFF COOLDOWN. That = No advantage to playing aim based.

     

    You really could have something different, something many players in many guilds I've played with want. Instead your opting to make your game cater to the lowest common denominator.

     

    I will wait for the next sandbox game that comes out that has combat with high skill ceiling and aim. If I wanted a tab targeted full loot game, I would play eve. Instead I choose to play Darkfall and Mortal Online because in those games when you win, generally you out played, out aimed, and had better timing than the other player.

    Lol, I know it's difficult to see from atop your ivory tower, but did you ever consider that, perhaps, the elitist pigs are the lowest common denominator? Basically, you're suggesting that your preference is what this world needs and there can be no other option without compromising the integrity of gaming. Well la dee da!! You should listen for your door bell over the holidays because I'm sure that executives from all the AAA Publishers are already gasing up their planes to get your perspective on game design. 

     

    I understand with you 1600+ posts and all your lvl 90 World of Warcraft characters in your sig that you're a fan of tab targeting and thats fine, and when I said lowest common denominator I wasn't talking popularity but competitive skill ceiling. There hasn't been a AAA non tab targeting game made yet, so there really isn't much of a fan base for it like world of warcraft has.

     

    Would you really want to play on the hardcore full loot server? I doubt most tab targeting fans really would opt to play on the hardcore server over the normal server (which has pvp areas and no full loot). I am confidant most players that wish to play on the hardcore server will be of similar mindset to me, not players that want to sit back and relax and hit tab and 123456.

    Well truthfully Planetside 1 was more of a FPSMMORPG with a AAA budget. Planetside 2 on the otherhand is just a arena shooting with without the lobby.

  • wfsaxtonwfsaxton Member UncommonPosts: 73

    Aiming doesn't belong in an MMO.  All it does it give a huge advantage in PvP to twitch kiddies.  Makes it impossible for those with disabilities to even participate.

    Plenty of other games to play if you need a twitch-fix.

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Member UncommonPosts: 1,729
    Originally posted by wfsaxton

    Aiming doesn't belong in an MMO.  All it does it give a huge advantage in PvP to Hackers that always end up in these low budget games.  Makes it impossible for those with disabilities to even participate.

    Plenty of other games to play if you need a twitch-fix.

    FTFY.

    Played-Everything
    Playing-LoL

  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Member CommonPosts: 682
    Originally posted by wfsaxton

    Aiming doesn't belong in an MMO.  All it does it give a huge advantage in PvP to twitch kiddies.  Makes it impossible for those with disabilities to even participate.

    Plenty of other games to play if you need a twitch-fix.

    What "belongs" in an MMO is what the majority of players demand, whether you like it or not.

    Plenty of other games for you to play if you don't like where the genre is going.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • TimesplitTimesplit Member UncommonPosts: 191
    Originally posted by wfsaxton

    Aiming doesn't belong in an MMO.  All it does it give a huge advantage in PvP to twitch kiddies.  Makes it impossible for those with disabilities to even participate.

    Plenty of other games to play if you need a twitch-fix.

    And why exactly is advantage a bad thing? So you want them to stop creating these games, just because some people have disabilities?

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by kairel182
    Originally posted by wfsaxton

    Aiming doesn't belong in an MMO.  All it does it give a huge advantage in PvP to twitch kiddies.  Makes it impossible for those with disabilities to even participate.

    Plenty of other games to play if you need a twitch-fix.

    Or perhaps there should actually be a game designed around said skill?  Not every game has to be catered to you or other's disabilities, this isn't real life and you accessing something out of necessity.  "Twitch kiddies" lol, what a condescending douche.

     

    What's next?  You going to tell the NFL that they need to make the game and field wheelchair accessable to allow for handicapped players?  Or perhaps you want the Olympic swimmers to tie one arm behind their back to allow a one-armed individual to 'have a chance.'

     

    Either you're good enough to compete or you're not.  Playing against players is either reaction time or strategy, sometimes both.  This is an example that reaction could win you the day and not simply because the other person is a walking shiny object fortress.

    That they polled their prospective players to sound out either option is a good sign, i am not surprised that tab targetting was the preferred option, for most MMO players its probably the most familiar, tbh though, aimed combat only really belongs in games like Planetside 2, MMOFPS's, i don't think Repop is aiming to narrow the games focus to just that type of gameplay, surely that in itself more than justifies their decision to go with tab targetting?image

  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381
    Originally posted by Sketch420

    Was very interested in this game thinking it would have competitive pvp like darkfall or mortal online because of its aiming features, but then found out you can also tab target and auto aim and never miss.

     

    Why? How Does this make sense?

     

    You have a game that could have the best mmorpg combat ever with its FPS combat, and include an option to tab target and never miss? So what would be the point of aiming and having a chance of missing and loosing a fight when you can just tab target and play it like WOW?

     

    I really can't understand this. Was excited for a real sandbox mmorpg with good combat, but it looks like it was all a gimmick.

    I do NOT play PVP only games and I LOVE TAB targeting. But from pure PVP perspective I could agree with you to some degree (skill however is not only being able to get player into your recticle and mash fire button but is also knowing when using what).

  • zzaxzzax Member UncommonPosts: 324
    Originally posted by daltanious

    I do NOT play PVP only games and I LOVE TAB targeting.

    Then you have hundreds of other games to play. We, with exception of Darkfall, have none.

  • SenadinaSenadina Member UncommonPosts: 896
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    I'm glad for the option, getting sick of every new Mmorpg coming out with "action combat", need to keep that over in console games and out of virtual world MMORPGS.

    Seconded. There are plenty of action combat MMOs out there. I love that Repopulation is giving players the option to play the way they like.

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  • aslan132aslan132 Member UncommonPosts: 630

    Im confused as to why this is a problem. I dont see any issue with giving players more options. And it would seem to me that the game weighs both systems the same, so it literally lets the player choose which way to play without any advantage or disadvantage to either playstyle. 

     

    The only possible argument I can see "aimers" having, is it takes away their ability to cheat. Plenty of aiming shooters out there, from CoD to Planetside/2 have problems with people using Aimbots. This gives the players who want to cheat a clear advantage because they never miss, while others have to carefully aim. The Repop solves that issue by basically giving anyone who wants it a legal "aimbot" and everyone is on the same page. So the only people who should have an issue with that are the ones who were looking forward to cheating with an aimbot in the first place, and have now lost that advantage. And all I have to say to that, is good job Repop. 

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    The system works well in game, and it allows for a more action type feel without trashing the tab target combat that many people welcome. Pure action would also eliminate the need to skill up the weapons, which would reduce the game to a shooter. Repopulation is essentially an old school MMORPG with new graphics and some of the creature comforts of newer games. To me it is manna from heaven, and once the last wipe is done it is probably all I will play.
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by aslan132

    Im confused as to why this is a problem. I dont see any issue with giving players more options. And it would seem to me that the game weighs both systems the same, so it literally lets the player choose which way to play without any advantage or disadvantage to either playstyle. 

     

    The only possible argument I can see "aimers" having, is it takes away their ability to cheat. Plenty of aiming shooters out there, from CoD to Planetside/2 have problems with people using Aimbots. This gives the players who want to cheat a clear advantage because they never miss, while others have to carefully aim. The Repop solves that issue by basically giving anyone who wants it a legal "aimbot" and everyone is on the same page. So the only people who should have an issue with that are the ones who were looking forward to cheating with an aimbot in the first place, and have now lost that advantage. And all I have to say to that, is good job Repop. 

    This.

    But there is another consideration. I have no idea if this affected the way Repop was coded, but it could be an issue if they had to adjust combat difficulties to "balance" it where in reality, one system was actually dumbed down so the other wouldn't be under powered.

  • xpiherxpiher Member UncommonPosts: 3,310
    Originally posted by Senadina
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    I'm glad for the option, getting sick of every new Mmorpg coming out with "action combat", need to keep that over in console games and out of virtual world MMORPGS.

    Seconded. There are plenty of action combat MMOs out there. I love that Repopulation is giving players the option to play the way they like.

    Darkfall, MO, Earth Rise (assuming the relaunch goes through), PS2, Fire Fall, Gloria Victus, LiF, DayZ, H1Z1, etc

    Anyways, you guy really need to accept the fact that free aim in an MMORPG is a super niche demographic. If all you care about is COMBAT then play an FPS game because Repop is so much more that the fact that this is even a debate, considering Repop is probably the only 100% sandbox coming out with any real potential, is missing what the game is from the get go. 

    image
    Games:
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    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
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  • xpiherxpiher Member UncommonPosts: 3,310
    Originally posted by Sketch420
    Originally posted by JC-Smith

    The 53/47 number is given to show that there is no way to appeal to both sides completely, and while each side generally feels their side in that matter is the preference of most players, it's really very split.

    This game was designed as an RPG though. Action Mode is something that was added later. I personally play in Action Mode. I prefer it. But I also feel that for a complex RPG that the RPG Mode is better for longevity. Action is exciting, but many MMO players have families they can't give their full concentration at all times. If there was a choice of one or the other it would have been RPG Mode, that's what was functional at the time.

    That having been said after we first took the game to GDC we had quite a few players volleying for action combat. Knowing the numbers and the split, and the fact that pure action combat is harder on the server and more susceptible to cheating, we never seriously considered a full move. We discussed it quite a bit and decided it would not be a good decision. That having been said, since several among our staff, and quite a few players do prefer it we looked for a way that we could make the game more enjoyable to more action oriented players. And Action Mode was what we came up with.

    If players can't enjoy a game if it isn't a full shooter, well there's not much we can do about that. That's their choice. But we feel pretty strongly that if you look at the two player types the solutions we have put in place will appeal to more players than if we had went to one or the other. That's because RPG Mode is at least half of the potential players, and what we have is full RPG Mode. The Action Mode on top of that will appeal to a good number of action oriented players. Certainly not all, but overall the combination of the two is the better choice, because RPG Mode fans generally aren't as accepting of FPS combat as the other way around. Primarily becuse of the concentration and twitch requirement.

     

    The system you describe where players in RPG mode can just hit a button to activate headshot is just a horrible idea if in aim based mode a head shot only works when that ability is OFF COOLDOWN. That = No advantage to playing aim based.

     

    You really could have something different, something many players in many guilds I've played with want. Instead your opting to make your game cater to the lowest common denominator.

     

    I will wait for the next sandbox game that comes out that has combat with high skill ceiling and aim. If I wanted a tab targeted full loot game, I would play eve. Instead I choose to play Darkfall and Mortal Online because in those games when you win, generally you out played, out aimed, and had better timing than the other player.

    You clearly haven't play this game. Action mode offers a bunch of advantages over tab-target mode. The main one is fludidity of movement and less button mashing.  But aside from that, the game actually requires you to maintain LoS, and unless something changed, the "hardcore server" is suppose to have friendly fire, making movement very important and giving action mode another leg up. 

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

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