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[Column] General: Cage Match: Skyrim vs. Elder Scrolls Online

24

Comments

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Why would you even put Skyrim into a comparison that contains a category for multi players?

    Let's see how ESO stacks up against, say, Minecraft for it's offline playability.

    Very simply because Skyrim is a large "open world" game. MMO's are  supposed to be OPEN world games, and even if they aren't, the assumption is that an mmo based on the world of "Elder Scrolls" would adopt a variety of things that the elder scrolls games are famous for.

    It's not all that hard to see why they are being compared.

     

    The comparison is for a multi player category, not "Open World" I'm not questioning a "variety of things that Elder Scrolls games are famous for."I'm asking why they would put a comparison together that looks at multi player aspect? That is a fundamental design difference, not a comparison.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,941
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Why would you even put Skyrim into a comparison that contains a category for multi players?

    Let's see how ESO stacks up against, say, Minecraft for it's offline playability.

    Very simply because Skyrim is a large "open world" game. MMO's are  supposed to be OPEN world games, and even if they aren't, the assumption is that an mmo based on the world of "Elder Scrolls" would adopt a variety of things that the elder scrolls games are famous for.

    It's not all that hard to see why they are being compared.

     

    The comparison is for a multi player category, not "Open World" I'm not questioning a "variety of things that Elder Scrolls games are famous for."I'm asking why they would put a comparison together that looks at multi player aspect? That is a fundamental design difference, not a comparison.

    If I'm looking at what I think you are saying is "multi-player category" then that's entitled "social".

    And there is a social aspect to the single player games over various forums. I actually go to the Elder Scrolls forums quite a bit, especially the modding forums as well as the Skyrim Nexus  forums.

    However, "yeah" as the article mentions, the level of social function on a forum is dwarfed by what one can do in an mmo. Still, there is a great amount of socializing and sharing as well as people working together in the modding community.

    edit: and why are you calling yourself "GeezerGamer"!?!?!? I'm two years older than you. You're not a geezer!

     

     
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Member RarePosts: 4,006
    Uhhh....Skyrim. Next question!

    Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Next Cage match:

    Peanut Butter vs. Orange Juice! 

    Stay tuned!

    LOL! Ikr

    Next Cage match:

    Star Wars Racing vs. Star Wars The Old Republic!

    Hey, they have the same IP, so it's a fair comparisson, right? That's how this works?

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    dup
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Why would you even put Skyrim into a comparison that contains a category for multi players?

    Let's see how ESO stacks up against, say, Minecraft for it's offline playability.

    Very simply because Skyrim is a large "open world" game. MMO's are  supposed to be OPEN world games, and even if they aren't, the assumption is that an mmo based on the world of "Elder Scrolls" would adopt a variety of things that the elder scrolls games are famous for.

    It's not all that hard to see why they are being compared.

     

    The comparison is for a multi player category, not "Open World" I'm not questioning a "variety of things that Elder Scrolls games are famous for."I'm asking why they would put a comparison together that looks at multi player aspect? That is a fundamental design difference, not a comparison.

    If I'm looking at what I think you are saying is "multi-player category" then that's entitled "social".

    And there is a social aspect to the single player games over various forums. I actually go to the Elder Scrolls forums quite a bit, especially the modding forums as well as the Skyrim Nexus  forums.

    However, "yeah" as the article mentions, the level of social function on a forum is dwarfed by what one can do in an mmo. Still, there is a great amount of socializing and sharing as well as people working together in the modding community.

    edit: and why are you calling yourself "GeezerGamer"!?!?!? I'm two years older than you. You're not a geezer!

     

     

    Yes, I was focusing on the comparison of MMO aspects of an MMO vs a Single Player RPG. Sure, I think a column on how ESO captures the essence of the Elder Scrolls games while incorporating online, multi player functionality, is more than appropriate.  But this, is kinda like comparing Gas Mileage of a 4x4 vs a bicycle.

    AS far as my Moniker? MiddleagedGamer didn't sound right. Maybe GenXGamer? Idunno.

    Either way, I'm stuck with it. I wanted to abandon it and move to a new one, but when I tried to create a new account , planning on deleting this one, I caught a 180 day ban for duplicate accounts. So this is it for me.

     

     

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    I've come to the conclusion that when people judge "visuals" they throw the door for personal taste and subjectivity wide open.

     

    I don't think any comparison of ESO vs. Skyrim visual is complete without this:

     

     

    And even with the obviously superior ESO "visual" above, I'm sure there will one or two who prefer the deformed Altmer with the huge heads..

     

    If you want to examine the texture quality of a rock or rendering distance, the SP game with no latency or concurrent users on screen considerations should win every single time.

     

    That the visual comparison between Skyrim and ESO is debatable at all is a testament to how incredibly good ESO looks as an MMO.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by Iselin

    I've come to the conclusion that when people judge "visuals" they throw the door for personal taste and subjectivity wide open.

     

    I don't think any comparison of ESO vs. Skyrim visual is complete without this:

     

     

    And even with the obviously superior ESO "visual" above, I'm sure there will one or two who prefer the deformed Altmer with the huge heads..

     

    If you want to examine the texture quality of a rock or rendering distance, the SP game with no latency or concurrent users on screen considerations should win every single time.

     

    That the visual comparison between Skyrim and ESO is debatable at all is a testament to how incredibly good ESO looks as an MMO.

    This is actually huge. You cannot compare MMO rendering to SP rendering. MMOs must render everything, even what you don't see, since someone else might. SPRPGs do not need to render anything that is not in the field of vision. However, I think this pic shows a difference in aesthetic design and not really a true example of one being better than the other. If anything, The texture shown in the Skyrim side is much more detailed. But that's not to say that ESO doesn't do what it does well.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Member UncommonPosts: 3,713
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Iselin

    I've come to the conclusion that when people judge "visuals" they throw the door for personal taste and subjectivity wide open.

     

    I don't think any comparison of ESO vs. Skyrim visual is complete without this:

     

     

    And even with the obviously superior ESO "visual" above, I'm sure there will one or two who prefer the deformed Altmer with the huge heads..

     

    If you want to examine the texture quality of a rock or rendering distance, the SP game with no latency or concurrent users on screen considerations should win every single time.

     

    That the visual comparison between Skyrim and ESO is debatable at all is a testament to how incredibly good ESO looks as an MMO.

    This is actually huge. You cannot compare MMO rendering to SP rendering. MMOs must render everything, even what you don't see, since someone else might. SPRPGs do not need to render anything that is not in the field of vision. However, I think this pic shows a difference in aesthetic design and not really a true example of one being better than the other. If anything, The texture shown in the Skyrim side is much more detailed. But that's not to say that ESO doesn't do what it does well.

    I'm no expert, but I don't think MMOs have to render everything you don't see. But they do have to track it. Which I believe is part of the reason MMOs tend to be far more CPU intensive than single player games. In single player games the CPU gets to kinda relax and take it easy letting the GPU do all the work. But in MMOs the CPU is like:

    "WTF?! You want to know where all this shit you're not looking at is and if it changes?! ugh I better make some coffee"

    I believe that also correlates to why system memory is more important for an MMO. All this info has to be kept somewhere!

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Iselin

    I've come to the conclusion that when people judge "visuals" they throw the door for personal taste and subjectivity wide open.

     

    I don't think any comparison of ESO vs. Skyrim visual is complete without this:

     

     

    And even with the obviously superior ESO "visual" above, I'm sure there will one or two who prefer the deformed Altmer with the huge heads..

     

    If you want to examine the texture quality of a rock or rendering distance, the SP game with no latency or concurrent users on screen considerations should win every single time.

     

    That the visual comparison between Skyrim and ESO is debatable at all is a testament to how incredibly good ESO looks as an MMO.

    This is actually huge. You cannot compare MMO rendering to SP rendering. MMOs must render everything, even what you don't see, since someone else might. SPRPGs do not need to render anything that is not in the field of vision. However, I think this pic shows a difference in aesthetic design and not really a true example of one being better than the other. If anything, The texture shown in the Skyrim side is much more detailed. But that's not to say that ESO doesn't do what it does well.

    Maybe so, But when someone says "visuals" to me that means the whole enchilada including art style and our own personal taste.

     

    I've always found Altmers in SP ES games to be butt-ugly...especially so in Skyrim. ESO made an attempt to make them a bit easier on the eyes and they mostly succeeded.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Morrowind is the best ES game period.

    Morrowind is far ahead of both Skyrim and ESO in terms of *gameplay* - but then again comparing single player vs online games is a bit silly.

    My 2c

    Morrowind is my favorite too.. Maybe it is because it was the first TES I played. It is kinda funny though.. All these games going with more " action / visceral " combat and Morrowind ( that is often stated as someones favorite TES or even RPG ) used dice roll combat and skill level to determine if you hit in melee.

    As for the article.

    Graphics / Sound

    I would say this is a tie. In both games I have been blown away by the visuals. Both games have great sound and music too.

    Gameplay

    ESO wins here IMO. Tons of skills to use and many different items to craft. 

    Value

    Tough one. Skyrim.

    Social

    Umm. A MMO versus a single player game. Obvious choice. ESO.

    Overall 

    Depends on what type of gamer you are.. Prefer MMOs and playing with other people? Then ESO wins. More of a single player gamer that wants to use tons of mods or make their own? Then Skyrim.

    Overall overall

    Pretty dumb article.

     
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 675

    I actually prefer ESO to unmodded skyrim - skyrim excels after you start modding it.  I found the original graphics to be lacking (especially the default shadows) compared to ESO, and I like the combat more in ESO - never experienced the lag mentioned in the article.

     

    That said, a few mods fixes everything and even pushes skyrim past ESO, unless you weight the multiplayer aspect heavily.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,941
    Originally posted by SlyLoK
     

    Morrowind is my favorite too.. Maybe it is because it was the first TES I played. It is kinda funny though.. All these games going with more " action / visceral " combat and Morrowind ( that is often stated as someones favorite TES or even RPG ) used dice roll combat and skill level to determine if you hit in melee.

     

    Well, as I said, Morrowind is my hands down favorite of all the Elder Scrolls games but NOT the combat. At all.

    Once Oblivion introduced the "if you miss you miss and if you hit you hit" combat, then I was satisfied.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by Dreamo84
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Iselin

    This is actually huge. You cannot compare MMO rendering to SP rendering. MMOs must render everything, even what you don't see, since someone else might. SPRPGs do not need to render anything that is not in the field of vision. However, I think this pic shows a difference in aesthetic design and not really a true example of one being better than the other. If anything, The texture shown in the Skyrim side is much more detailed. But that's not to say that ESO doesn't do what it does well.

    I'm no expert, but I don't think MMOs have to render everything you don't see. But they do have to track it. Which I believe is part of the reason MMOs tend to be far more CPU intensive than single player games. In single player games the CPU gets to kinda relax and take it easy letting the GPU do all the work. But in MMOs the CPU is like:

    "WTF?! You want to know where all this shit you're not looking at is and if it changes?! ugh I better make some coffee"

    I believe that also correlates to why system memory is more important for an MMO. All this info has to be kept somewhere!

    The highlighted part is accurate. One thing about MMOs most gamers get confused on, is the difference between server & client-side processing. Most people view the whole game in terms of what is on their client.

    Graphics, are client side, and the game absolutely does not (and should not) be rendering everything you can't see on camera. The more optimized games understand this, and are extremely efficient at separating what is important from what is not; rendering only the necessary aspects of a game. You also get games like GW which multi-tier their rendering, basically manipulating the concepts of focal points to give higher rendering priority to the focus of a shot (your character for example), and lower rendering priority to things players are less likely to pay attention to (characters in the background). The result being that certain parts of the screen get high res textures, while others get lower-res textures. This is a trick commonly used in 3d, because it is absolutely idiotic to do high quality renders of things you barely see.

    Furthermore, the server doesn't really care about graphics. They care about keeping track of what elements are on screen. Things like projectiles (trajectory), damage numbers, player positioning, etc. get tracked by the server. But while you the player might see a beautifully rendered elf, the server sees some coordinates, stat numbers, etc. A bit of a simplification, but you get the point.

  • ChantsyChantsy Member UncommonPosts: 5

    Skyrim for me.

    I LOVE a good dungeon crawl but you can't do that in ESO. Every time I enter a dungeon in that game there is always a group that comes in and blows through it killing every thing in sight. Then they'll sit there camping the "boss" farming it.

    The lag in ESO is unbearable. At it's worst I had a 10 sec pause after every 5th step I took.

    As for the 2014 Matchup; it does say something when a 7 year old game gives ESO a challenge. It sure wasn't a blowout win for ESO.

     

  • SunscourSunscour Member UncommonPosts: 186


    Skyrim over ESO, but really, truly it is Shivering Isles above all else.....

    Life is Short, Read a Book.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by Chantsy

    Skyrim for me.

    I LOVE a good dungeon crawl but you can't do that in ESO. Every time I enter a dungeon in that game there is always a group that comes in and blows through it killing every thing in sight. Then they'll sit there camping the "boss" farming it.

    The lag in ESO is unbearable. At it's worst I had a 10 sec pause after every 5th step I took.

    As for the 2014 Matchup; it does say something when a 7 year old game gives ESO a challenge. It sure wasn't a blowout win for ESO.

     

    That hasn't happened for months. They put boss loot on an individual timer and you can only get loot from it once every 30 minutes or so.

     

    But if you don't like players playing around you, SP game are the obvious choice for you.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Iselin

    I've come to the conclusion that when people judge "visuals" they throw the door for personal taste and subjectivity wide open.

     

    I don't think any comparison of ESO vs. Skyrim visual is complete without this:

     

     

    And even with the obviously superior ESO "visual" above, I'm sure there will one or two who prefer the deformed Altmer with the huge heads..

     

    If you want to examine the texture quality of a rock or rendering distance, the SP game with no latency or concurrent users on screen considerations should win every single time.

     

    That the visual comparison between Skyrim and ESO is debatable at all is a testament to how incredibly good ESO looks as an MMO.

    This is actually huge. You cannot compare MMO rendering to SP rendering. MMOs must render everything, even what you don't see, since someone else might. SPRPGs do not need to render anything that is not in the field of vision. However, I think this pic shows a difference in aesthetic design and not really a true example of one being better than the other. If anything, The texture shown in the Skyrim side is much more detailed. But that's not to say that ESO doesn't do what it does well.

    Maybe so, But when someone says "visuals" to me that means the whole enchilada including art style and our own personal taste.

     

    I've always found Altmers in SP ES games to be butt-ugly...especially so in Skyrim. ESO made an attempt to make them a bit easier on the eyes and they mostly succeeded.

    For what it's worth.....I prefer the one on the left

  • MaquiameMaquiame Member UncommonPosts: 1,073
    Skyrim hands down, it s not even a contest

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • hestahhestah Member UncommonPosts: 12
    I wish skyrim was on the ps4 I wouldn't get off it who knows when we will get ESO I played it on October and did enjoy it but I also play SWTOR and it wins over ESO on Pc
  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Member UncommonPosts: 447

    Uh.....The reason why Skyrim wins every single category is because it can be modded on the PC.  Every system in the game, the entire game is totally enhanced with great player mods...and there are hundreds of them.

     

    If you are talking vanilla Skyrim then you have a valid argument that ESO can stack up pretty well.  But I can promise you that every single player who has played Skyrim with 200+ mods will laugh at this post.

     

    I like the voice overs and the music for ESO....those are the best features, but even those pale in comparison to what players create with mods.

     

    Go get a PC copy of Skyrim for 5 dollars on Steam, get all the expansions, spend a night or two adding the mods correctly, when you get down you will have over 200 of them,  Then start a new game.....and you will understand.

  • staranstaran Member UncommonPosts: 87
    Love the elder scrolls series. Played arena when it first came out. Dagger fall in university.
    Played the hell out of oblivion.
    But morrowind is the first game ever, I have never finished. And I have played thousands of games.
    I couldn't figure out the journal.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Morrowind is the best ES game period.

    Morrowind is far ahead of both Skyrim and ESO in terms of *gameplay* - but then again comparing single player vs online games is a bit silly.

    My 2c

    "gameplay"? Archaic controls, horrible combat, sluggish pace, I mean I loved morrowind as well, but better game-play?

    If you said it's text based engine allowed for a more personal adventure I'd agree, NPC's could address you by your created name which is the great thing about text based dialogue. It adds a layer of immersion you can't find in VO'd games.

    Morrowind holds a special place mostly due to it being the first game of it's kind that I played (massive open world RPG). However to say it is far ahead of either in terms of game-play is quite odd.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MagikarpsGhostMagikarpsGhost Member RarePosts: 689
    Originally posted by SBFord

    Once upon a 2002, there was a little single-player RPG called The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, which sucked up so much of my gaming time you’d think it could have moonlighted as an MMO.  Fast forward to 2006 and then 2011, and you’ve got the fourth and fifth installments of The Elder Scrolls series in Oblivion and Skyrim, both vying for my attention almost as strongly as their predecessor.

    Read more of Som Pourfarzaneh's Cage Match: Skyrim vs Elder Scrolls Online.

    image

    there is no way in HELL you can compaire a mmo to a single player rpg like skyrim. ESO is elderscrolls BUT it is also a mmo so a lot of the things we love such as mods had to be removed. Any TES game would outshine ESO due to the modding community, hell i know of a mod that makes morrowind look damn near close to skyrime in terms of graphics (granted animations are clunky) So all in all this is not a fair compairison. MMo vs MMO and single player vs single player. That is a fair match.

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  • RaquisRaquis Member RarePosts: 1,029

    ESO is not bad but they made a lot of mistakes and the subscription is one of them,the game feels that it has no soul!

    if I knew the way it would feel I would rather have had another elders scrolls single player game,but all that people wanted was the next elders scrolls game that you can play with a view friends NOT A FN MMO!

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