Still laughing. That's why he couldn't even get a successful kickstarter going, because people care so much about this game.
The kickstarter failed because they rushed it. The kickstarters that make 100k+ generally have more to show to convince people that they are capable of bringing their idea to fruition. In Pantheon's case, they made over 400k on basically an idea and little else. Honestly that says a lot. I don't remember any unsubstantiated idea ever making that much on a kickstarter.
If they were to go to kickstarter with a demo today I have full confidence that it would fund. However, they are more interested in investors than working towards and managing another crowdfunding campaign.
As far as potential playerbase is concerned, it will really depend on the level of polish Pantheon has at launch. Their "niche" people like to talk about is probably the biggest niche in the mmorpg market. Millions of people have played EverQuest and its hands down the most talked about and missed MMO discussed on these forums. If Visionary Realms manages to make good on their promises producing an experience akin to classic Everquest, I wouldn't bat an eyelash if their playerbase grew to over 500k.
Tell that to Crowfall.
Crowfall was pretty much the opposite of Pantheon. Artcraft spent a year preparing their marketing campaign, creating art assets and building a demo. People here actually speculated that Crowfall would begin alpha at the end of its 40 day countdown.
Meanwhile, Pantheon was merely a dream and did not inspire such confidence, yet still made it over halfway to their goal.
Oh they definitely marketed it amazingly. At the end of the day though, they still haven't shown much of anything besides some art and ideas. Unless you count that combat video that looked like it was made in a week.
Visionary Realms has not marketed their game yet. Their goals are not set in stone recently, but have been held for nearly two decades. Dating back to Dungeon & Dragons era of dice throwing and random role-playing happenstance, was the norm. Where a role was to be mastered.
This project is nearly 10 months in and Visionary Realms progress is what brings me to the table. You make it sound as if their progress has been lacking. And that alone means you are not as educated on Pantheon as you should be. They will get the proper funding.
There really is no point in arguing. When Alpha 2 comes, many will get to see if the net-code and combat are up to snuff. If so, any graphic laying (anonymous eye candy, etc) will become trivial. This game is based on it core mechanics & game world.
Watch & learn.
I feel like you're the one not educated on Pantheon. The game is not 10 months old......The game was being worked on before they even did the Kickstarter over a year ago. The kickstarter that failed. Then they did a crowdfund, which Brad proceeded to then spend a large sum of it on his own personal finances, blew all the money, and didn't pay the people who had been working on the game. There is interviews with a bunch of the old devs lying around basically saying Brad spent all the money, and didn't pay them even though they were working their ass off on the game. So Brad came up with the genius idea to get volunteer Devs to make the game with him. For awhile it was a revolving door of devs coming and going, but I will admit they finally seem to have got a stable team of volunteers who accept not being paid. So yes, it's been 10 months of the project with the new team of devs, but the game has been in development since September of 2013.
Also they did marketing. They were doing Q&A's and interviews before the Kickstarter. Q&A's and interviews are marketing. You do them to raise brand awareness, which is the definition of marketing.
I want this game to be made as I am a big fan of a slower play style. However I would be surprised if they get more than 10k-15k subscribers at first.. Now if over the course of the following 6-12 months after release they can polish up the game and add features and content I could see that rising to ~25k.
To me I think the PvE MMO market is underutilized right now. Just about every game has some form of PvP and some are mainly PvP. I think if they can release a polished game and grow it from there it could be a big success.
However they have to be careful about listening to those that want a higher subscription fee because they think it somehow will make the game better.. It wont. What it will do is make sure the game is nothing more than a small niche title no matter how good the game turns out to be. Quite honestly it should be $9.99 at the start and then $12.99 and then $14.99 depending on the state of the game and its progression.
Hopefully they can get an investor soon or do another kickstarter once they flesh out U5 a bit more and get some new animations. The current animations would probably put off a lot of people.
I will probably buy in once they announce a public alpha date. Until then I am in wait and see mode.
I'm behind Pantheon. I am very much looking forward to it's release. I will be playing the EQ progression server to hold me over until then. However... I think you are overly optimistic about how well this game is going to perform. If they get 200K subs... I would be very impressed. I would consider that a HUGE success. But.. there's no way they are doing that at $25 a month. That's a big paywall. I make good money too.. and I still wouldn't pay that. Mostly on principle. Personally... $15 is the max for me. And I feel that they should go even lower. Somewhere between $5.99 and $9.99. They probably won't.. but that's just my opinion on the sub fee. I think that the closer you get to $5.99... the more likely people are going to setup recurring billing and just forget about it. Even if they take a hiatus from the game.
Lol $5.99? An MMO priced at that tells me they aren't offering something valuable. Next you are going to just suggest they go F2P and beg for scraps with a cash shop.
Its a big IF, but IF they deliver on their promises, Pantheon will have the unique position of being the only classic mmorpg on the market. There isn't anything even remotely like classic EQ or oldschool games out there. People will be throwing money at them if they do it justice. Not suggesting it should be more than the average sub fee, but most people who are interested in that type of game will gladly pay $25 a month. The ONLY reason they shouldn't mark the price higher is to appeal to a larger market. Players on the fence after the free trial may find a higher sub the excuse they need not to sub.
I'm behind Pantheon. I am very much looking forward to it's release. I will be playing the EQ progression server to hold me over until then. However... I think you are overly optimistic about how well this game is going to perform. If they get 200K subs... I would be very impressed. I would consider that a HUGE success. But.. there's no way they are doing that at $25 a month. That's a big paywall. I make good money too.. and I still wouldn't pay that. Mostly on principle. Personally... $15 is the max for me. And I feel that they should go even lower. Somewhere between $5.99 and $9.99. They probably won't.. but that's just my opinion on the sub fee. I think that the closer you get to $5.99... the more likely people are going to setup recurring billing and just forget about it. Even if they take a hiatus from the game.
Lol $5.99? An MMO priced at that tells me they aren't offering something valuable. Next you are going to just suggest they go F2P and beg for scraps with a cash shop.
Its a big IF, but IF they deliver on their promises, Pantheon will have the unique position of being the only classic mmorpg on the market. There isn't anything even remotely like classic EQ or oldschool games out there. People will be throwing money at them if they do it justice. Not suggesting it should be more than the average sub fee, but most people who are interested in that type of game will gladly pay $25 a month. The ONLY reason they shouldn't mark the price higher is to appeal to a larger market. Players on the fence after the free trial may find a higher sub the excuse they need not to sub.
I am interested in this style of game and I sure as heck wouldnt pay $25 a month. I think your assumption that most people that are interested would is way off base.
Ya, but you still back landmark and EQ Next and havent come to the realization that modern MMOs are only moving in the wrong direction. I give you another year or two to change your tune, and lucky for you that is when Pantheon is scheduled to launch.
Visionary Realms has a product that I think could possibly pull in 2 million people and hold them 4 to 7 years. They, nor anyone within in their staff needs 10 million patrons. It just becomes added noise and dilutes the roleplaying (F2P). (once the pantheon hooopla starts, everyone is going to wanna take a peak, and scream and holler about a free weekend pass, trial islands, etc You want, you pay. )
Even being conservative and saying 500,000 Subscribers. That is still $12.5Million a month or $150 Million/year!
Your numbers are way off.
Most triple AAA games don't even pull in those numbers.
Even the original Everquest didn't go over 500k subs (I think it was less) and many of those players would be the prime candidates for this game provided they were even still interested in a game like this.
I think you "think" that because this game will be more old school and because WoW brought in a huge amount of players to the mmo genre that at least a good amount of them would be interested in this "for some reason".
I was playing EQ1 when they made a game wide messaging saying they set a new world record for having 500k players subbing to an online game. Was kinda cool moment I will never forget =-)
I'm behind Pantheon. I am very much looking forward to it's release. I will be playing the EQ progression server to hold me over until then. However... I think you are overly optimistic about how well this game is going to perform. If they get 200K subs... I would be very impressed. I would consider that a HUGE success. But.. there's no way they are doing that at $25 a month. That's a big paywall. I make good money too.. and I still wouldn't pay that. Mostly on principle. Personally... $15 is the max for me. And I feel that they should go even lower. Somewhere between $5.99 and $9.99. They probably won't.. but that's just my opinion on the sub fee. I think that the closer you get to $5.99... the more likely people are going to setup recurring billing and just forget about it. Even if they take a hiatus from the game.
Lol $5.99? An MMO priced at that tells me they aren't offering something valuable. Next you are going to just suggest they go F2P and beg for scraps with a cash shop.
Its a big IF, but IF they deliver on their promises, Pantheon will have the unique position of being the only classic mmorpg on the market. There isn't anything even remotely like classic EQ or oldschool games out there. People will be throwing money at them if they do it justice. Not suggesting it should be more than the average sub fee, but most people who are interested in that type of game will gladly pay $25 a month. The ONLY reason they shouldn't mark the price higher is to appeal to a larger market. Players on the fence after the free trial may find a higher sub the excuse they need not to sub.
I am interested in this style of game and I sure as heck wouldnt pay $25 a month. I think your assumption that most people that are interested would is way off base.
I feel that a price tag of $25 is little to much especially when you need to pay for 2-3 persons. However I feel I can pay max $19.9 if the game is really good.
Originally posted by Utinni This game will cap at like 30k subs. This market is long dead.
Ok, lets say you're right!
30,000*50 = $1,500,000 (That's just on the box and/or digital version)
30,000*15 = $450,000/month
I'd say they would be doing pretty good for themselves! Logically, they'll maybe only keep 20k subs after a while but still, that's a fair amount of money.
I think it will be fine!
Personally, I think they will get A LOT more than 30k subs.
You know, 1 year ago I would have guessed that out of the new indie MMOs Shroud of the Avatar was going to be the best of all while Pantheon the biggest fail.
Now after playing SOTA for a while and seeing what Pantheon team is doing I think the exact opposite.
SotA has $ 6 million budget and it turned out to be a little more than a property simulator while Pantheon with almost no funding looks like is going to deliver the goods.
Sure it is a bit too early to make a final judgemen, we have to wait until the next Pantheon video to check what kind of progress the team is doing, but I feel positive.
Originally posted by Utinni This game will cap at like 30k subs. This market is long dead.
Ok, lets say you're right!
30,000*50 = $1,500,000 (That's just on the box and/or digital version)
30,000*15 = $450,000/month
I'd say they would be doing pretty good for themselves! Logically, they'll maybe only keep 20k subs after a while but still, that's a fair amount of money.
I think it will be fine!
Personally, I think they will get A LOT more than 30k subs.
They don't intend to have a box fee. Currently they intend for it to be free to try and only have a $15 subscription.
Originally posted by Utinni This game will cap at like 30k subs. This market is long dead.
Ok, lets say you're right!
30,000*50 = $1,500,000 (That's just on the box and/or digital version)
30,000*15 = $450,000/month
I'd say they would be doing pretty good for themselves! Logically, they'll maybe only keep 20k subs after a while but still, that's a fair amount of money.
I think it will be fine!
Personally, I think they will get A LOT more than 30k subs.
They don't intend to have a box fee. Currently they intend for it to be free to try and only have a $15 subscription.
Oh, must have missed that somewhere. Thanks for the info.
Well, that's a lot of "starter" money gone. I think they should add a box fee.
I am interested in this style of game and I sure as heck wouldnt pay $25 a month. I think your assumption that most people that are interested would is way off base.
If it releases and actually is in better shape then Vanguard I would pay 25 bucks as well.
I do however think that price would turn off some players but since it seems to be going for old school players who used to play EQ and similar games I think most of us can afford it.
The game have potential, that is clear. My worries is just if they actually can release it and do so in an acceptable shape. If they do succeed I will be in and so will at least some of my old guildies from way back.
Originally posted by Utinni This game will cap at like 30k subs. This market is long dead.
Ok, lets say you're right!
30,000*50 = $1,500,000 (That's just on the box and/or digital version)
30,000*15 = $450,000/month
I'd say they would be doing pretty good for themselves! Logically, they'll maybe only keep 20k subs after a while but still, that's a fair amount of money.
I think it will be fine!
Personally, I think they will get A LOT more than 30k subs.
I think that still would be a bit low, most MMOs tend to cancel if they go below 75K players. 50K is a rather likely a low they really shouldn't get under.
But I don't think 100K players would be that impossible as long as the game is in better shape than Vanguard at the release. There is more than a few old school PvE players around still.
As for 30K, games far more niche which released in not so great shape still got that number, Darkfall comes to mind (not badmouthing it, just saying it is more niche) so while the number is possible it should still be something they can beat.
P2P market is a really slim place right now but for a game like this that might actually be an advantage. The competition is rather limited and some of us don't like item shops. If they charge full fees and still sell stuff however they are done before they even releases no matter how great the game is. People ain't falling for that again.
Originally posted by Utinni This game will cap at like 30k subs. This market is long dead.
Ok, lets say you're right!
30,000*50 = $1,500,000 (That's just on the box and/or digital version)
30,000*15 = $450,000/month
I'd say they would be doing pretty good for themselves! Logically, they'll maybe only keep 20k subs after a while but still, that's a fair amount of money.
I think it will be fine!
Personally, I think they will get A LOT more than 30k subs.
I think that still would be a bit low, most MMOs tend to cancel if they go below 75K players. 50K is a rather likely a low they really shouldn't get under.
But I don't think 100K players would be that impossible as long as the game is in better shape than Vanguard at the release. There is more than a few old school PvE players around still.
As for 30K, games far more niche which released in not so great shape still got that number, Darkfall comes to mind (not badmouthing it, just saying it is more niche) so while the number is possible it should still be something they can beat.
P2P market is a really slim place right now but for a game like this that might actually be an advantage. The competition is rather limited and some of us don't like item shops. If they charge full fees and still sell stuff however they are done before they even releases no matter how great the game is. People ain't falling for that again.
100k seems really high. How many do other sub games (not WoW) have estimated? EVE, FFXIV, etc. Maybe they're out there but I'll be pretty surprised.
EVE hit 500k in Feb 2013, but they haven't released numbers since, because numbers have been dropping. I haven't seen any newer FFXIV numbers, I'm sure they are out there, but they hit 500k subs a year ago. SWToR was at around 500k subs when they went f2p, no idea now.
Going by a peak record doesn't represent normal sustained values. I'm curious about that number. Their peak recorded concurrency on tranquility is about 65k. The current concurrency 26k with a 24 hour peak of 34k. The 5 year trend shows a sustained loss and this is for the iconic sandbox space sim. http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Those are real numbers. I have a hard time believing that a game is going to have 8 times the number of subs than it does daily players. Maybe just maybe EVE can get away with that with dupe accounts, but most other games won't have that.
100k subs for a very niche title still seems high to me. Even if FFXIV has/had close to 500k subs (and I'm skeptical) that is a AAA game with a long established and devoted fanbase.
Well their peak was 65k concurrent users when they had 500k subscribers. Also daily players is not the same thing as concurrent. They seem to be peaking at 34kish now, so if you do the math, which I'm too lazy to do, so I'm estimating, that's probably around like 250-300k subscribers currently?
I am interested in this style of game and I sure as heck wouldnt pay $25 a month. I think your assumption that most people that are interested would is way off base.
If it releases and actually is in better shape then Vanguard I would pay 25 bucks as well.
I do however think that price would turn off some players but since it seems to be going for old school players who used to play EQ and similar games I think most of us can afford it.
The game have potential, that is clear. My worries is just if they actually can release it and do so in an acceptable shape. If they do succeed I will be in and so will at least some of my old guildies from way back.
It doesnt matter if someone can afford it or not. It would be a horrible business decision. I want another EQ as much as anyone but it just wouldnt make any sense. I just wonder why a fan would want to put up a wall to keep a game from growing as it could.. I dont understand that mentality.
I am interested in this style of game and I sure as heck wouldnt pay $25 a month. I think your assumption that most people that are interested would is way off base.
If it releases and actually is in better shape then Vanguard I would pay 25 bucks as well.
I do however think that price would turn off some players but since it seems to be going for old school players who used to play EQ and similar games I think most of us can afford it.
The game have potential, that is clear. My worries is just if they actually can release it and do so in an acceptable shape. If they do succeed I will be in and so will at least some of my old guildies from way back.
It doesnt matter if someone can afford it or not. It would be a horrible business decision. I want another EQ as much as anyone but it just wouldnt make any sense. I just wonder why a fan would want to put up a wall to keep a game from growing as it could.. I dont understand that mentality.
Personally I wouldn't care if it was 50 a month. If they deliver what they say they want to do, it will be a small niche game. I don't mind helping making it possible.
15$ a month is good if you have several 100k of people, if you have 50k people not so much. So that's why I would gladly pay more to actually be able to play a game like that.
An honest question, would an extra $100 a year really kill it..? And do you think you are one of the 250k potential customers?
Yes, an extra $100/yr kills it. Definitely. It's actually an extra $120/yr. That covers my vent server cost and then some. That's nearly a yearly sub to another mmo. There are some console games coming out that I can get. Yadda yadda yadda... you get my point. Have to draw the line somewhere.
Yes.. I am a potential customer. I am really looking forward to this game.. but if it's more than $15/mth... prob won't sign up.
I'm behind Pantheon. I am very much looking forward to it's release. I will be playing the EQ progression server to hold me over until then. However... I think you are overly optimistic about how well this game is going to perform. If they get 200K subs... I would be very impressed. I would consider that a HUGE success. But.. there's no way they are doing that at $25 a month. That's a big paywall. I make good money too.. and I still wouldn't pay that. Mostly on principle. Personally... $15 is the max for me. And I feel that they should go even lower. Somewhere between $5.99 and $9.99. They probably won't.. but that's just my opinion on the sub fee. I think that the closer you get to $5.99... the more likely people are going to setup recurring billing and just forget about it. Even if they take a hiatus from the game.
Lol $5.99? An MMO priced at that tells me they aren't offering something valuable. Next you are going to just suggest they go F2P and beg for scraps with a cash shop.
Its a big IF, but IF they deliver on their promises, Pantheon will have the unique position of being the only classic mmorpg on the market. There isn't anything even remotely like classic EQ or oldschool games out there. People will be throwing money at them if they do it justice. Not suggesting it should be more than the average sub fee, but most people who are interested in that type of game will gladly pay $25 a month. The ONLY reason they shouldn't mark the price higher is to appeal to a larger market. Players on the fence after the free trial may find a higher sub the excuse they need not to sub.
A) I am complletely... 100% against the F2P model. Period.
$5.99 is one extreme... and $25 is the other. If you truly think this game can have any real success at $25/mth... you are very delusional. I'm sure they will do some market research and not just shoot from the hip with that ridiculous number.
Originally posted by Letsinod 250k? Vanguard which was everything this is didn't have that.
Vanguard was dead on launch. I coulda been great but it was too buggy and broken and that killed it as well as the fact they cut the team right after launch. So it was essentially dead on launch because they pushed it out too early and lost all momentum...
My hope is that this redo will be done right and build on vanguard and eq.
Anyone that thinks 100k is high for a game like Pantheon is out of touch with the genre or what this game is planning to be. The only reason an EQ remake wouldn't pull 100k easy is if they simply fail to deliver on promises or produce a Vanguard launch quality product. EQ had nearly half a million back when there was less than 1/10th of the people on the internet. People have been calling for a return to that type of game since SOE began mutating EQ into a themepark, and that niche has millions of potential players. Not claiming that they'll all jump on board with Pantheon, but 100k is peanuts if they manage to get funded and make a solid game.
Originally posted by Dullahan Anyone that thinks 100k is high for a game like Pantheon is out of touch with the genre or what this game is planning to be. The only reason an EQ remake wouldn't pull 100k easy is if they simply fail to deliver on promises or produce a Vanguard launch quality product. EQ had nearly half a million back when there was less than 1/10th of the people on the internet. People have been calling for a return to that type of game since SOE began mutating EQ into a themepark, and that niche has millions of potential players. Not claiming that they'll all jump on board with Pantheon, but 100k is peanuts if they manage to get funded and make a solid game.
It's impossible to gauge really. Just have to build it and see. When you say "people have been calling for a return to that type of game"... that is true.. some people. Impossible to say how many.
One thing I believe... it will not be a meteoric rise. I doubt there will be 100k people lining up to get on board out of the gate. I think they can hit decent numbers if they deliver... but I think it will be a slow build up. I have nothing to back up these claims.. just my personal feelings on it.
Originally posted by Dullahan Anyone that thinks 100k is high for a game like Pantheon is out of touch with the genre or what this game is planning to be. The only reason an EQ remake wouldn't pull 100k easy is if they simply fail to deliver on promises or produce a Vanguard launch quality product. EQ had nearly half a million back when there was less than 1/10th of the people on the internet. People have been calling for a return to that type of game since SOE began mutating EQ into a themepark, and that niche has millions of potential players. Not claiming that they'll all jump on board with Pantheon, but 100k is peanuts if they manage to get funded and make a solid game.
It's impossible to gauge really. Just have to build it and see. When you say "people have been calling for a return to that type of game"... that is true.. some people. Impossible to say how many.
One thing I believe... it will not be a meteoric rise. I doubt there will be 100k people lining up to get on board out of the gate. I think they can hit decent numbers if they deliver... but I think it will be a slow build up. I have nothing to back up these claims.. just my personal feelings on it.
What is impossible to guage?
Do you not understand that people have been tracking MMO-space metrics and numbers, some use them as thesis for their PHD. There are firms that consult with the SOE, Blizzard, TRION, etc. There are also charts dating back to before EQ's time. So it is easy to spot the newbies, from those who have weathered some tough projects & failures.
The #'s I have focused on are based on well tunneled metrics. A game like Pantheon @ $25/month will support 250,000 people within it's second year. (That doesn't mean Pantheon will be $25/month.)
In all honesty, if word gets out this is "it"..?
Some old guilds will dust themselves off and make it worthwhile. So if this Visionary Realms Development Team can stick to their tenets & keep their DNA pure, with a good release + word of mouth, I see no reason why Pantheon couldn't support 500,000 subscribers by its 3rd year. And quite frankly, that is all the subscribers VR will ever need. EVE is a good example of the direction EQ3/Pantheon is going.
A game like Pantheon doesn't need a crown, when it is a jewel.
Pantheon will never be about the "price of the game" when you wife is leaving you for the 2nd time, or you've lost a job, or flunked out a semester, etc. Have you ever had any of that type of e-crack injected into you for 36 months?
On a similiar note, the EQ Progression server (ragefire) is firing up this week, & is already full?
Not only that, but SOE/Daybreak just made an alliance with the EQ-emulator Project1999, because they were due to release Kunark, and the EQ emulator has 50K registrants. SOE/Daybreak didn't want P99 interfering with the release of Daybreak's new EQ Progressions server. All oldschool EQ action in the present day.
Then you have the Vanguard Emulator Project, which is fascinating & growing.
Many rally around Brad (& see threw his faults), because he is a dedicated Artisan. He creates worlds and drops you off in them. His Vision is the reason these people have EQ & VG emulators. He is a visionary and forward thinker. The base mechanics to his games are outstanding & quite deep. Unmatched thus far in the industry in both EQ & VG.
Once you have a taste of his vision, it is hard to put it down.
edit: Hey Joe Cracker, Pantheon is not a niche game. It is a Premium MMORPG. 250k is a small group, it is doubtful you are one of the few people who will play.
Comments
I feel like you're the one not educated on Pantheon. The game is not 10 months old......The game was being worked on before they even did the Kickstarter over a year ago. The kickstarter that failed. Then they did a crowdfund, which Brad proceeded to then spend a large sum of it on his own personal finances, blew all the money, and didn't pay the people who had been working on the game. There is interviews with a bunch of the old devs lying around basically saying Brad spent all the money, and didn't pay them even though they were working their ass off on the game. So Brad came up with the genius idea to get volunteer Devs to make the game with him. For awhile it was a revolving door of devs coming and going, but I will admit they finally seem to have got a stable team of volunteers who accept not being paid. So yes, it's been 10 months of the project with the new team of devs, but the game has been in development since September of 2013.
Also they did marketing. They were doing Q&A's and interviews before the Kickstarter. Q&A's and interviews are marketing. You do them to raise brand awareness, which is the definition of marketing.
I want this game to be made as I am a big fan of a slower play style. However I would be surprised if they get more than 10k-15k subscribers at first.. Now if over the course of the following 6-12 months after release they can polish up the game and add features and content I could see that rising to ~25k.
To me I think the PvE MMO market is underutilized right now. Just about every game has some form of PvP and some are mainly PvP. I think if they can release a polished game and grow it from there it could be a big success.
However they have to be careful about listening to those that want a higher subscription fee because they think it somehow will make the game better.. It wont. What it will do is make sure the game is nothing more than a small niche title no matter how good the game turns out to be. Quite honestly it should be $9.99 at the start and then $12.99 and then $14.99 depending on the state of the game and its progression.
Hopefully they can get an investor soon or do another kickstarter once they flesh out U5 a bit more and get some new animations. The current animations would probably put off a lot of people.
I will probably buy in once they announce a public alpha date. Until then I am in wait and see mode.
Lol $5.99? An MMO priced at that tells me they aren't offering something valuable. Next you are going to just suggest they go F2P and beg for scraps with a cash shop.
Its a big IF, but IF they deliver on their promises, Pantheon will have the unique position of being the only classic mmorpg on the market. There isn't anything even remotely like classic EQ or oldschool games out there. People will be throwing money at them if they do it justice. Not suggesting it should be more than the average sub fee, but most people who are interested in that type of game will gladly pay $25 a month. The ONLY reason they shouldn't mark the price higher is to appeal to a larger market. Players on the fence after the free trial may find a higher sub the excuse they need not to sub.
I am interested in this style of game and I sure as heck wouldnt pay $25 a month. I think your assumption that most people that are interested would is way off base.
I was playing EQ1 when they made a game wide messaging saying they set a new world record for having 500k players subbing to an online game. Was kinda cool moment I will never forget =-)
I feel that a price tag of $25 is little to much especially when you need to pay for 2-3 persons. However I feel I can pay max $19.9 if the game is really good.
Ok, lets say you're right!
30,000*50 = $1,500,000 (That's just on the box and/or digital version)
30,000*15 = $450,000/month
I'd say they would be doing pretty good for themselves! Logically, they'll maybe only keep 20k subs after a while but still, that's a fair amount of money.
I think it will be fine!
Personally, I think they will get A LOT more than 30k subs.
You know, 1 year ago I would have guessed that out of the new indie MMOs Shroud of the Avatar was going to be the best of all while Pantheon the biggest fail.
Now after playing SOTA for a while and seeing what Pantheon team is doing I think the exact opposite.
SotA has $ 6 million budget and it turned out to be a little more than a property simulator while Pantheon with almost no funding looks like is going to deliver the goods.
Sure it is a bit too early to make a final judgemen, we have to wait until the next Pantheon video to check what kind of progress the team is doing, but I feel positive.
I need Eq3 badly, I hope that's the one.
They don't intend to have a box fee. Currently they intend for it to be free to try and only have a $15 subscription.
Oh, must have missed that somewhere. Thanks for the info.
Well, that's a lot of "starter" money gone. I think they should add a box fee.
If it releases and actually is in better shape then Vanguard I would pay 25 bucks as well.
I do however think that price would turn off some players but since it seems to be going for old school players who used to play EQ and similar games I think most of us can afford it.
The game have potential, that is clear. My worries is just if they actually can release it and do so in an acceptable shape. If they do succeed I will be in and so will at least some of my old guildies from way back.
I think that still would be a bit low, most MMOs tend to cancel if they go below 75K players. 50K is a rather likely a low they really shouldn't get under.
But I don't think 100K players would be that impossible as long as the game is in better shape than Vanguard at the release. There is more than a few old school PvE players around still.
As for 30K, games far more niche which released in not so great shape still got that number, Darkfall comes to mind (not badmouthing it, just saying it is more niche) so while the number is possible it should still be something they can beat.
P2P market is a really slim place right now but for a game like this that might actually be an advantage. The competition is rather limited and some of us don't like item shops. If they charge full fees and still sell stuff however they are done before they even releases no matter how great the game is. People ain't falling for that again.
EVE hit 500k in Feb 2013, but they haven't released numbers since, because numbers have been dropping. I haven't seen any newer FFXIV numbers, I'm sure they are out there, but they hit 500k subs a year ago. SWToR was at around 500k subs when they went f2p, no idea now.
Well their peak was 65k concurrent users when they had 500k subscribers. Also daily players is not the same thing as concurrent. They seem to be peaking at 34kish now, so if you do the math, which I'm too lazy to do, so I'm estimating, that's probably around like 250-300k subscribers currently?
It doesnt matter if someone can afford it or not. It would be a horrible business decision. I want another EQ as much as anyone but it just wouldnt make any sense. I just wonder why a fan would want to put up a wall to keep a game from growing as it could.. I dont understand that mentality.
Personally I wouldn't care if it was 50 a month. If they deliver what they say they want to do, it will be a small niche game. I don't mind helping making it possible.
15$ a month is good if you have several 100k of people, if you have 50k people not so much. So that's why I would gladly pay more to actually be able to play a game like that.
Yes, an extra $100/yr kills it. Definitely. It's actually an extra $120/yr. That covers my vent server cost and then some. That's nearly a yearly sub to another mmo. There are some console games coming out that I can get. Yadda yadda yadda... you get my point. Have to draw the line somewhere.
Yes.. I am a potential customer. I am really looking forward to this game.. but if it's more than $15/mth... prob won't sign up.
We'll see what they do.
A) I am complletely... 100% against the F2P model. Period.
A more realistic number is $9.99 at launch. End of story. For a very successful niche game catering to a niche market... I'll leave this here https://secure.eveonline.com/buy/?_ga=1.149741430.1376722802.1431479916
Vanguard was dead on launch. I coulda been great but it was too buggy and broken and that killed it as well as the fact they cut the team right after launch. So it was essentially dead on launch because they pushed it out too early and lost all momentum...
My hope is that this redo will be done right and build on vanguard and eq.
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Ethion
It's impossible to gauge really. Just have to build it and see. When you say "people have been calling for a return to that type of game"... that is true.. some people. Impossible to say how many.
One thing I believe... it will not be a meteoric rise. I doubt there will be 100k people lining up to get on board out of the gate. I think they can hit decent numbers if they deliver... but I think it will be a slow build up. I have nothing to back up these claims.. just my personal feelings on it.
What is impossible to guage?
Do you not understand that people have been tracking MMO-space metrics and numbers, some use them as thesis for their PHD. There are firms that consult with the SOE, Blizzard, TRION, etc. There are also charts dating back to before EQ's time. So it is easy to spot the newbies, from those who have weathered some tough projects & failures.
The #'s I have focused on are based on well tunneled metrics. A game like Pantheon @ $25/month will support 250,000 people within it's second year. (That doesn't mean Pantheon will be $25/month.)
In all honesty, if word gets out this is "it"..?
Some old guilds will dust themselves off and make it worthwhile. So if this Visionary Realms Development Team can stick to their tenets & keep their DNA pure, with a good release + word of mouth, I see no reason why Pantheon couldn't support 500,000 subscribers by its 3rd year. And quite frankly, that is all the subscribers VR will ever need. EVE is a good example of the direction EQ3/Pantheon is going.
A game like Pantheon doesn't need a crown, when it is a jewel.
Pantheon will never be about the "price of the game" when you wife is leaving you for the 2nd time, or you've lost a job, or flunked out a semester, etc. Have you ever had any of that type of e-crack injected into you for 36 months?
On a similiar note, the EQ Progression server (ragefire) is firing up this week, & is already full?
Not only that, but SOE/Daybreak just made an alliance with the EQ-emulator Project1999, because they were due to release Kunark, and the EQ emulator has 50K registrants. SOE/Daybreak didn't want P99 interfering with the release of Daybreak's new EQ Progressions server. All oldschool EQ action in the present day.
Then you have the Vanguard Emulator Project, which is fascinating & growing.
Many rally around Brad (& see threw his faults), because he is a dedicated Artisan. He creates worlds and drops you off in them. His Vision is the reason these people have EQ & VG emulators. He is a visionary and forward thinker. The base mechanics to his games are outstanding & quite deep. Unmatched thus far in the industry in both EQ & VG.
Once you have a taste of his vision, it is hard to put it down.
edit: Hey Joe Cracker, Pantheon is not a niche game. It is a Premium MMORPG. 250k is a small group, it is doubtful you are one of the few people who will play.