Is EQNext Vaporware?

iatesand · August 2015

This discussion was never about polygons in the first place. You just keep changing the subject and moving the goalposts. The discussion was about Landmark being a bad engine and a cash grab and EQ:N will never be made because they realized they done fucked up!

I don't know why you keep repeating the same thing about voxels being polygons when you yourself say voxels are just points in space. So what is it then?

Voxel engines use VOXELS end of story. Then some engines use an algorithm to create polygons. I said this the whole time even in the quote you included.

No, Voxels are not made out of Polygons. A Voxel Engine creates Polygons by using various algorithms such as the "marching cube algorithm" so a GPU and render engine like Forelight Enigne can render them but a VOXEL is not made up of polygons.

So what exactly is your point?

As for EQ:N. My opinion still stands. It's dead Jim!

You are correct this conversation has gone astray of its original topic, but to be fair you have been saying things that are factually incorrect as if they were in truth fact (I know welcome to the internet).

So lets just put this to rest

Landmark dose not display voxels at all, it only displays polygons, witch was the point Nan was trying to make when he said the Voxels are made from polygon. You know that as well as I do. You are just being contrary for the sake of being contrary witch is very immature but... welcome to the internet right? Claiming the game has a bad voxel engine may or may not be true, I don't know the exact engine they used for the farm but lets agree to say that its not optimized fully to work with the Forgelight. We can only hope that improves as development continues.

But the meat of the topic is that you, in all of your infinite wisdom or complete ignorance, think that EQ:N is dead. There is absolutely no correlating proof to this statement, as a matter f fact there is a mountain of evidence that directly contradicts this statement . I am not trying to box you in with the fact man but...

The people who make the Game say they are making the game.
They hold development workshops several times a month talking about what they are working on
The only people that actually know say with 100% certainty that the game is in development

That pretty much rules out the infinite wisdom part and leave you in the complete ignorance category. I am not trying to tell you how to live your life or anything, but I'm 43 and if there is one thing I have learned in life its if I am completely ignorant on a topic (as you you on this one) its is better for me to STFU than it is for me to make a complete spectacle of myself. There are a lot of Fool Speaks Proverbs out there that can apply to this situation.

Nobody here knows in what shape or form EQ:N is going to be released in. I wonder that myself, I do not question if it will be released, just what they slap the name om. I hope for the best but expect the worse. If they cancel the game then by all means come back and say I told you so. If they release it then try I was wrong about this one.

You sound butthurt abut something Daybreak did to you, but man. its a game. if you think its dead in the water then just move on and find a game you enjoy.

MrSnuffles · August 2015

iatesand said:

This discussion was never about polygons in the first place. You just keep changing the subject and moving the goalposts. The discussion was about Landmark being a bad engine and a cash grab and EQ:N will never be made because they realized they done fucked up!

I don't know why you keep repeating the same thing about voxels being polygons when you yourself say voxels are just points in space. So what is it then?

Voxel engines use VOXELS end of story. Then some engines use an algorithm to create polygons. I said this the whole time even in the quote you included.

No, Voxels are not made out of Polygons. A Voxel Engine creates Polygons by using various algorithms such as the "marching cube algorithm" so a GPU and render engine like Forelight Enigne can render them but a VOXEL is not made up of polygons.

So what exactly is your point?

As for EQ:N. My opinion still stands. It's dead Jim!

You are correct this conversation has gone astray of its original topic, but to be fair you have been saying things that are factually incorrect as if they were in truth fact (I know welcome to the internet).

So lets just put this to rest

Landmark dose not display voxels at all, it only displays polygons, witch was the point Nan was trying to make when he said the Voxels are made from polygon. You know that as well as I do. You are just being contrary for the sake of being contrary witch is very immature but... welcome to the internet right? Claiming the game has a bad voxel engine may or may not be true, I don't know the exact engine they used for the farm but lets agree to say that its not optimized fully to work with the Forgelight. We can only hope that improves as development continues.

But the meat of the topic is that you, in all of your infinite wisdom or complete ignorance, think that EQ:N is dead. There is absolutely no correlating proof to this statement, as a matter f fact there is a mountain of evidence that directly contradicts this statement . I am not trying to box you in with the fact man but...

The people who make the Game say they are making the game.
They hold development workshops several times a month talking about what they are working on
The only people that actually know say with 100% certainty that the game is in development
That pretty much rules out the infinite wisdom part and leave you in the complete ignorance category. I am not trying to tell you how to live your life or anything, but I'm 43 and if there is one thing I have learned in life its if I am completely ignorant on a topic (as you you on this one) its is better for me to STFU than it is for me to make a complete spectacle of myself. There are a lot of Fool Speaks Proverbs out there that can apply to this situation.

Nobody here knows in what shape or form EQ:N is going to be released in. I wonder that myself, I do not question if it will be released, just what they slap the name om. I hope for the best but expect the worse. If they cancel the game then by all means come back and say I told you so. If they release it then try I was wrong about this one.

You sound butthurt abut something Daybreak did to you, but man. its a game. if you think its dead in the water then just move on and find a game you enjoy.

You are the only one that is being contrary for no reason other than trolling and changing the subject.

Voxels are not made up of polygons no matter how you twist it. Landmark displays voxels as terrain made up of polygons.

No one is ignorant and the only fools i see are you and this other muppet.

How you come up with ridiculous statements that i am butthurt about Daybreak is laughable and again changing the subject strawman and all. I got Landmark for free and i think its a scam perpetuated with EQ:N to get people to pay for a barely Alpha Voxel engine game that plays and looks like ass.

EQ:N is dead. It's my opinion. Like it or not. If you don't then deal with it. Welcome to the internet?

Let's see in 12 months who is right, shall we.

SomethingUnusual · August 2015

"The game does not actually model three-dimensional volumes of voxels. Instead, it models the ground as a surface, which may be seen as being made up of voxels. The ground is decorated with objects that are modeled using texture-mapped polygons."
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voxel

Would you like something more scholarly? Give me a few minutes to dig through my books.

Alamonzoro · August 2015

with zero info on the game who can say anything right now.

MrSnuffles · August 2015

SomethingUnusual said:

"The game does not actually model three-dimensional volumes of voxels. Instead, it models the ground as a surface, which may be seen as being made up of voxels. The ground is decorated with objects that are modeled using texture-mapped polygons."
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voxel

Would you like something more scholarly? Give me a few minutes to dig through my books.

Exactly what i am saying the whole time. Thanks for posting this.

MrSnuffles · August 2015

John Smedley has left Daybreak Games to start new company

SomethingUnusual · August 2015

No problem? I guess...

I'm not sure Smed's departure will have any impact what so ever. McQuaid left SOE long before hand, and this had no effect on the franchise.

Colonel Sanders died long before that, and yet he is still making commercials... You know, the whole mystery of life thing.

Cothor · August 2015

I want EQN to be the GOAT game, but all signs are pointing to it being a 6/10 that holds the intrest of the masses for less than six months. For whatever reason they just make sloppy games. Check out landmark. Its amazing in so many ways, but its just so sloppy in others. It feels and plays clunky. What I'm saying is that I have no faith in SOE

azurrei · August 2015

SomethingUnusual said:

No problem? I guess...

I'm not sure Smed's departure will have any impact what so ever. McQuaid left SOE long before hand, and this had no effect on the franchise.

I agree, it won't have an impact because EQ:N has been dead for awhile... hell, it was pretty much dead the moment it was shown off imo.

Cothor · August 2015

SomethingUnusual said:

No problem? I guess...

I'm not sure Smed's departure will have any impact what so ever. McQuaid left SOE long before hand, and this had no effect on the franchise.

Colonel Sanders died long before that, and yet he is still making commercials... You know, the whole mystery of life thing.

I gotta agree. I truly believe that Smed was one of the key problems. He displays all typical signs of being a sociopath and habitual liar. Good riddance.

iatesand · August 2015

You are the only one that is being contrary for no reason other than trolling and changing the subject.

Voxels are not made up of polygons no matter how you twist it. Landmark displays voxels as terrain made up of polygons.

No one is ignorant and the only fools i see are you and this other muppet.

How you come up with ridiculous statements that i am butthurt about Daybreak is laughable and again changing the subject strawman and all. I got Landmark for free and i think its a scam perpetuated with EQ:N to get people to pay for a barely Alpha Voxel engine game that plays and looks like ass.

EQ:N is dead. It's my opinion. Like it or not. If you don't then deal with it. Welcome to the internet?

Let's see in 12 months who is right, shall we.

Nobody is changing the subject guy, You have no facts and are happy to share your very uneducated and completely ignorant opinion as to what you think DB is going to do about the game they are developing. I am sure they are happy to have you guiding them in this time of need. Just as my opinion is also just a opinion, I at least have the company backing me up at this point. That can always way change, lets give it 12 months as you say.

We are not ignorant, we are at worst gullible, we tend to want to believe that the company is telling us the truth and they are indeed working on this game. Who knows? I don't really know I am just going off what they tell me. But at the very least .. I am not spouting crap out my mouth like a you are sir. Unless you can by chance point me to the proof the game is dead and no longer being developed? Anybody? anything at all.. No? nothing? Ahhh.. as expected.

Now this part is optional.. feel free to skip it as it may incite you to try and defend your non-existent position
Read what something unusual wrote, then read it again and then once more if you don't understand. The Voxel is not displayed they wrap it in a mesh and make it a polygon. The Voxel becomes a polygon. Forgelight then renders the polygon.

Are Voxels made up of polygons? no Voxels are voxels. In game though, they are polygons because that's how they are displayed. That is all anybody is saying. There isn't a voxel engine that is displaying them. It is the displaying of the polys that the Forgelight is doing. I'm not sure why you cant let that point be made and done with. Its not an opinion its a fact. I think we both agree on the facts and are just bickering over semantics. I think we can consider this part of the topic concluded. The opinion is the game looks like shit as you would say, and that I feel is your opinion and of course your free to have it.

MrSnuffles · August 2015

iatesand said:

You are the only one that is being contrary for no reason other than trolling and changing the subject.

Voxels are not made up of polygons no matter how you twist it. Landmark displays voxels as terrain made up of polygons.

No one is ignorant and the only fools i see are you and this other muppet.

How you come up with ridiculous statements that i am butthurt about Daybreak is laughable and again changing the subject strawman and all. I got Landmark for free and i think its a scam perpetuated with EQ:N to get people to pay for a barely Alpha Voxel engine game that plays and looks like ass.

EQ:N is dead. It's my opinion. Like it or not. If you don't then deal with it. Welcome to the internet?

Let's see in 12 months who is right, shall we.

Nobody is changing the subject guy, You have no facts and are happy to share your very uneducated and completely ignorant opinion as to what you think DB is going to do about the game they are developing. I am sure they are happy to have you guiding them in this time of need. Just as my opinion is also just a opinion, I at least have the company backing me up at this point. That can always way change, lets give it 12 months as you say.

Again with the personal attacks in light of no arguments and having to desperately have the last word on the internet. Well, you can have it, this conversation is over. I don't lower myself to your level, sorry.

iatesand · August 2015

MrSnuffles said:

iatesand said:

You are the only one that is being contrary for no reason other than trolling and changing the subject.

Voxels are not made up of polygons no matter how you twist it. Landmark displays voxels as terrain made up of polygons.

No one is ignorant and the only fools i see are you and this other muppet.

How you come up with ridiculous statements that i am butthurt about Daybreak is laughable and again changing the subject strawman and all. I got Landmark for free and i think its a scam perpetuated with EQ:N to get people to pay for a barely Alpha Voxel engine game that plays and looks like ass.

EQ:N is dead. It's my opinion. Like it or not. If you don't then deal with it. Welcome to the internet?

Let's see in 12 months who is right, shall we.

Nobody is changing the subject guy, You have no facts and are happy to share your very uneducated and completely ignorant opinion as to what you think DB is going to do about the game they are developing. I am sure they are happy to have you guiding them in this time of need. Just as my opinion is also just a opinion, I at least have the company backing me up at this point. That can always way change, lets give it 12 months as you say.

Again with the personal attacks in light of no arguments and having to desperately have the last word on the internet. Well, you can have it, this conversation is over. I don't lower myself to your level, sorry.

its not a personal attack little man, your opinion is lacking knowledge or awareness in general of the subject matter, that's just the definition of the facts. I know it sounds bad , I'm not saying your ignorant or stupid, because I have read some of your post and you are clearly not I'm saying your opinion on this matter fits the definition. Please don't take it as a personal attack

If you have some facts to back up your claims I would be happy to reascend that remark and apologize for my own ignorance.. oh wait you don't. Its going to suck if they cancel the game and I have to come back here and make a post of shame about how you were right.

But I do not think I will have to

jonp200 · August 2015

Time to lock the thread...

Nanfoodle · August 2015

MrSnuffles said:

Nanfoodle said:

@MrSnuffles So you were really sure about the engine and that didn't turn out so well. Sure you don't want to google it first before you make your stand? Lol Try looking up voxel mesh tech before you make a fool of yourself lol just saying.

Yes i am still pretty sure that Landmark uses a Voxel engine while PS2 uses a traditional heightmap based engine for the terrain. They are not the SAME. They are not even the same ballpark.

It seems that we are at a point where you need to call people fools which shows me you ahve no arguments and from here on i shall ignore you because there is no point in arguing with people like you.

PS: Using "lol" multiple times in the same sentences does not make them more true or convincing.

Never called you a fool. I said google it before you look a fool. Anyways. You seems fixed on things you dont know as fact and no one seems to be able to show you otherwise. So at this point I am going to exit as I dont think any amount of logic or fact will get you to see reason. As for your comment saying this game wont launch see you in 12 months to see who is right. Well if I could I would take that bet but I am sure even if the game does release you will stand firm saying you would never say such a thing and have some other nonsense saying why it will fail as a game =-) Keep posting pls I do enjoy a good laugh =-D

kruler · August 2015

Ok Im going to come out say what Ive wanted to say about EQN since it was first shown, I want this to fail before birth, I want its production history laid wide open and bare to the world, ridiculed and held up as to everything that is wrong with alot of the currant game production models, ie paying for Alpha builds "to help in the games direction", call that for what its is , bullshit.

(In reference to how Landmark was first touted, not the cynical word play that came later)

With Smed gone, and his style of things purged, I hope that another reset happens, but the death of the title in its currant unknown state and questionable style would not produce tear from me either, which I find ironic as I am very rarely negative on this forums.

Nanfoodle · August 2015

kruler said:

Ok Im going to come out say what Ive wanted to say about EQN since it was first shown, I want this to fail before birth, I want its production history laid wide open and bare to the world, ridiculed and held up as to everything that is wrong with alot of the currant game production models, ie paying for Alpha builds "to help in the games direction", call that for what its is , bullshit.

(In reference to how Landmark was first touted, not the cynical word play that came later)

With Smed gone, and his style of things purged, I hope that another reset happens, but the death of the title in its currant unknown state and questionable style would not produce tear from me either, which I find ironic as I am very rarely negative on this forums.

This is the sad side of gamers. EQN is one of the few games thats trying to do something new. Pushing the borders of what it means to be an MMO. With Voxels and advanced AI. Where player interaction with the world and NPCs will make the world so different from server to server. Dropping themepark and trying to be the biggest open seamless sandbox game ever made. What do we gamers do? Rally behind the company spending so much time and money on R&D? No we wish them ill. We keep asking for something new but when a company tries to give us that we bash them. Sad.

heerobya · August 2015

Nanfoodle said:
This is the sad said of gamers. EQN is one of the few games thats trying to do something new. Pushing the borders of what it means to be an MMO. With Voxels and advanced AI. Where player interaction with the world and NPCs will make the world so different from server to server. Dropping themepark and trying to be the biggest open seamless sandbox game ever made. What do we gamer do? Rally behind the company spending so much time and money on R&D? No we wish them ill. We bash them. We keep asking for something new but when a company tries to give us that was bash them. Sad.

EQ is the grandfather of the "themepark" grind-tastic, group dependent, PvE raid & gear/loot-centric game.

Pantheon, and before that Vanguard have more in common, more so a sequel to that style of game that what we've seen of EQN.

The problem with EQN, IMO, is that is really doesn't bear much resemblance to Everquest.

I mean, EQN officially debuted in what - 2013? They were trying to capitalize on the whole voxel craze, and if the game would have released in 2013/2014 it may have mattered - but the market has moved on.

"Open world" was/is the big crazy of 2014/2015, with "sandbox" open world shooters and RPGs left and right...

What's the new trend in the tail-end of 2015 and into 2016?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the big trend is going to be towards cross-platform and "choose your own device."

Games that feature play experiences across multiple devices, like XB1 -> PC cross play, and mobile/tablet integration, games that feature "advanced" device support like Occulus Rift.

Beyond that it seems like holiday 2015 and into 2016 is all about nostalgia - new entries in big franchises, remakes and reboots, and everything is leaning on a cinematic approach and for the first time - a focus on the current gen hardware to deliver it all.

Daybreak is way behind on that.

Unless they announce a return to some of the "classic" EQ feature set - paying fan service to their veterans, and they announce some interesting options with PS4 and maybe cross play etc. - I just don't see EQN becoming any kind of a "thing" - even if it finally does release in 2016.

kinido · August 2015

I hope not. I'm holding out some serious hope for this game to release at some point.

Loke666 · August 2015

heerobya said:
EQ is the grandfather of the "themepark" grind-tastic, group dependent, PvE raid & gear/loot-centric game.

Pantheon, and before that Vanguard have more in common, more so a sequel to that style of game that what we've seen of EQN.

The problem with EQN, IMO, is that is really doesn't bear much resemblance to Everquest.

I mean, EQN officially debuted in what - 2013? They were trying to capitalize on the whole voxel craze, and if the game would have released in 2013/2014 it may have mattered - but the market has moved on.

"Open world" was/is the big crazy of 2014/2015, with "sandbox" open world shooters and RPGs left and right...

What's the new trend in the tail-end of 2015 and into 2016?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the big trend is going to be towards cross-platform and "choose your own device."

Games that feature play experiences across multiple devices, like XB1 -> PC cross play, and mobile/tablet integration, games that feature "advanced" device support like Occulus Rift.

Beyond that it seems like holiday 2015 and into 2016 is all about nostalgia - new entries in big franchises, remakes and reboots, and everything is leaning on a cinematic approach and for the first time - a focus on the current gen hardware to deliver it all.

Daybreak is way behind on that.

Unless they announce a return to some of the "classic" EQ feature set - paying fan service to their veterans, and they announce some interesting options with PS4 and maybe cross play etc. - I just don't see EQN becoming any kind of a "thing" - even if it finally does release in 2016.

EQ was about a lot more than just themepark grind, the game was not the first of it's type (that was Meridian 59) but it invented far more new features and ideas than any game after it.

Just remaking Everquest would be a poor thing for it's legacy, EQ2 actually tried it at launch but moved closer to Wow after that. While EQ2 was somewhat successful it was the sequel the IP needed.

Doing something very different is a must.

That said, what we heard so far about EQN is not just good things, the Guildwars like skill system isn't really that much new thinking, a similar system (but with 1 main class) excisted in 2005 already and what I heard so far isn't revolutionary enough at all.

The voxel engine mixing DEs to create a sandpark where citys can be destroyed though is a good idea and fit the EQ spirit, as long as Norrath still feels the same, because new mechanics is one thing but when you make a new game in an old world the world should still be something you recognize.

I hope they rethink the mechanics for the character progression and I have a mix feeling about the art, some races just seems to far from the originals. But just scrapping the game would be a misstake.

I have no clue where the MMO genre is moving right now, it seems to be toward kick starting and indie games at the moment and all of those games seems to be going in very different directions. If a game like Crowfall, Pantheon, Shards or Camelot unchained to really well the entire genre might very well move in a rather different direction from what we seen before. At the moment it is cross server PvE themeparks at the top but that could change really fast.

Nanfoodle · August 2015

Loke666 said:

That said, what we heard so far about EQN is not just good things, the Guildwars like skill system isn't really that much new thinking, a similar system (but with 1 main class) excisted in 2005 already and what I heard so far isn't revolutionary enough at all.

Not the same!!! The side of how weapons give you skills is where EQN and GW2 skill system are the same. In GW2 all skills come from what weapons you are using. With EQN your hotbar will have some skills from your Weapon, some from the class you are playing and a set of skills on your hotbar from classes you unlock. There is prim skills you can only use when playing that class and secondary skills that once you have unlocked that class you can use the secondary skills on any class.

Then your items are not about stats, they are about skills. So you are a Fire DD Mage and you find a bracer that makes 50% of your DD damage into dot. So now your fall ball hits for X damage and has a DoT at the end. Then you find some gloves that truns 50% of your DoT damage in a returning team based HoT. So now your Mage is a DD/DoT DPS class that the more damage you do the more you heal your team. Then to top it off, you take some secondary skills from the Nerco class you unlocked that buff your DoT damage to do more damage and more healing and some team buffs from the cleric you unlocked so now you are a great backup healer that dishes out good damage. The skill system is very different then GW2 other then some skills on your hotbar come from your weapon. Devs have also said with this system they could change the balance of the game just by adding 1 item to the game.

kemono55 · August 2015

Nanfoodle said:
This is the sad side of gamers. EQN is one of the few games thats trying to do something new. Pushing the borders of what it means to be an MMO....

Dude, it's just ideas...
Almost every MMO wants to try and do something new and push the boarders of what it means to be an MMO.

It was the same thing with Warhammer Online, same thing with Conan, with Guild wars 2.

I hope EQN can do something new,
but so they have nothing to show for yet so...

Nanfoodle · August 2015

kemono55 said:

Nanfoodle said:
This is the sad side of gamers. EQN is one of the few games thats trying to do something new. Pushing the borders of what it means to be an MMO. With Voxels and advanced AI. Where player interaction with the world and NPCs will make the world so different from server to server. Dropping themepark and trying to be the biggest open seamless sandbox game ever made. What do we gamers do? Rally behind the company spending so much time and money on R&D? No we wish them ill. We keep asking for something new but when a company tries to give us that we bash them. Sad.

Dude, it's just ideas...
Almost every MMO wants to try and do something new and push the boarders of what it means to be an MMO.

It was the same thing with Warhammer Online, same thing with Conan, with Guild wars 2.

I hope EQN can do something new,
but so they have nothing to show for yet so...

Thats why so many MMOs are called WoW clones lol

Loke666 · August 2015

kemono55 said:
Dude, it's just ideas...
Almost every MMO wants to try and do something new and push the boarders of what it means to be an MMO.

It was the same thing with Warhammer Online, same thing with Conan, with Guild wars 2.

I hope EQN can do something new,
but so they have nothing to show for yet so...

WAR had plenty of ideas but almost all of them got scrapped during development. I hope the same thing wont happen here and for that matter that the game actually releases (a bet I wont take).

CrazKanuk · August 2015

Loke666 said:

kemono55 said:
Dude, it's just ideas...
Almost every MMO wants to try and do something new and push the boarders of what it means to be an MMO.

It was the same thing with Warhammer Online, same thing with Conan, with Guild wars 2.

I hope EQN can do something new,
but so they have nothing to show for yet so...

WAR had plenty of ideas but almost all of them got scrapped during development. I hope the same thing wont happen here and for that matter that the game actually releases (a bet I wont take).

It's a catch 22. They can release a relatively uninspired, cookie-cutter themepark relatively inexpensively and do just fine, but they'll never make enough to actually retrofit those innovative features, or they invest now and take a risk that what they're doing will give them a better turnout. It's a tough call.

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