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Pantheon, The true mmos last hope.
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
I've been a member of mmorpg.com for many years. I'm one of several that consider this to be my main internet site. When I turn my computer on I may check a few stocks, look at the local weather, read a few news articles, a few Youtubes then I find myself here for the remainder. With that I have seen several changes to our community over the years. One of the largest changes are free loaders. Playing fast hit-and-run-games. They are the majority now.
MMO's are now quick action games WITH NO STAYING POWER. Think about it !......How long can you possibly play a quick action game?.... One month, maybe two.
MMO's are all made Linear WITH NO STAYING POWER. Same as above, think about it !
Free-to play is absolutely the killer of them all !........Starting zones are packed with non-community players that have no intentions of longevity, They play until free no longer works and jump to the next. Their are exceptions to this. Addicted spenders and the addicted power players that will spend anything to get ahead. Neither are mmo players.
How can anyone possibly dispute this phrase: " Quick action, liner, free-to-play mmos don't stay populated for very long "
Most important of all :
With the absolute facts stated above. Many will argue. Many will be creative and put a spin on the facts. Developers can't use this site ( mmoprg.com ) as a model to build an mmo. The vocal majority are posters looking for a free, fast, hit-and-run games.
Soooooo, what am I saying here:
That the possibility of a true community mmo is over ?
No one would play them ?
Not at all !...............The market is STARVING FOR AN MMO. This community is a false representation of the larger population, its just a place for people to find free games, mixed with a few of us looking for an mmo...............Their are millions of us waiting, just not here !
Pantheon Rise of the Fallen and Saga of Lucimia are a last hope. If at all cost, they release as a full mmo, and all promised, they have the potential of being the Holy Grail !
I have a fear......trickle release of content being a crowed funded game could damage the impact.
Comments
Another way to look at it is that P:RotF will fill a specific niche, not unlike train sims and Football manager. This ifc is a good thing since it does not have the mass-appeal to break out of said niche. Neither does it´s potential customers want it to.
But to call it "the last hope" comes of as a bit pretentious. A bit like how people who are in to indie music sometimes bemoans the "decline of the art" and holding up their own favorite band as the last bastion of said art.
This have been a good conversation
I find it strange how a real mmo is known here as niche.
It's a perception created here among the thousands of free seekers !
- Free is not niche
- Liner is not niche
- Fast action is not niche
- But an open world, community based Multi-player-Game with a subscription is a niche.
Nothing against you Tawess, It just something that came to mind.
In my mind the entire MMO genre is made up of smaller niches. Some just happen to be bigger and have more mass-market appeal than others... Like the bite-size themepark MMO for an example.
So free is not a niche because it applies to many genres... Free themepark MMO otoh is a niche especially if it is also linear and have fast-paced action.... Do you see the difference.?
This have been a good conversation
And niche game isn't an offensive term or anything it just means that it caters to a smaller group of players which is perfectly fine.
You can stop making threads now tossing the term "True MMO" around. It doesn't make your community look good at all.
Why do SOME fans always have to make it out like their new favorite game is the only hope for the industry?
I hope that Pantheon turns out to be great. if it is, I will be happy to play it. Whether it succeeds or fails though is not going to change the industry. Thinking so is just silly.
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Your right Dakeru, I do seem to toss the term "True MMO".
I'm simply looking for an mmo in among hundreds of Free to play cash grabs with a lucky side effect for the free players.
I can't believe we still see these posts.How many times??????????? I can't even list how many times I have seen this thread surface since 2010. How many actually "saved" the genre? And what does that mean anyway? Why does the genre even need a last hope?
What you really mean to say is.....I hope that if and when Pantheon actually releases, it will finally be a game I've been wanting to play since [XXXX] Online.
Thus I want:
- Tons of content. Slow progression. Complex gameplay thats fun and hard to master. Lots of races and classes to choose from, and no limits on these choices (like racial wars aka Dark Ages of Camelot, or Warhammer). High customizability of your character. And I want my characters to look stylish, heroic, aesthetic.
- Classic fantasy. Because I simply love it. But also because classic fantasy has traditionally the most variance in classes and content. Thats also because it can integreate all other genres naturally and tradtitionall already includes many of them - like horror, or martial arts / asian culture. Vanguard had steam punk (Ancient Port Warehouse) and I've seen fantasy games that had science fiction, and I guess even western should be possible as well.
- Item based gaming. I want to work on that uber sword for months if not years, I want extensive control over the property and quality of my gear (crafting), and I certainly dont want anything like full loot or permanent item decay. Finally I love concepts like Lineage 2's overenchanting - basically you can improve an item without any limit at all.
- Third person view because it is NOT natural to look at a small screen (which really only fills a small part of what we see in reallife). First person as option, if also present, is of course OK, but I wont choose that one often. Besides, looking at your character you spent so much work on is pleasant too.
- Subscription based. I really dont like Free To Play, unless its actually truely free to play - the Guild Wars concept is OK (only the game itself is really boring), and SOEs "freemium" is kinda borderline (mostly I accepted because there was nothing else that could replace Vanguard, it helped with an influx of new players, subscription based got some "free" money to spent in the shop, and the shop was well not too overpowered). Everyone should play under the same conditions. Goldsellers and the like should be fought. If there is a shop, the items should be all optional, and ideally all items from the shop should be clearly identifyable as such, i.e. for example the flying mount from the shop should look clearly different than the quested one.
- Lag resistant gaming. There is an auto attack, and abilities have cooldowns, allowing players with a slow connnection to stay competitive with players with a fast connection.
- Thinking focused gaming. Pressing which next button should be the challenge, not fast reflexes. Helps also with the previous entry "lag resistance".
- Social interaction gaming, both cooperating and competitive. Ideally PvP and clan wars (of player made clans, not of predefined groups).
Sorry that this is a blow to your Free-to-play crusade or anything to do with Trion.
Millions are looking for an MMO not $200 founder packs only to be released with a VERY undesired Cash grab.
Just for the point of discussion, I find that 3rd person views hurt the game play experience. See, most people in EQ played in first person because the other camera modes were not practical for constantly moving around in. You would tab through the multi-mods from time to time to catch your surroundings, but for the most part you stayed in first person.
What I liked about that type of view is that it limited the view advantage that 3rd person has. There were many times where the group would get surprised because a a mob would path in and start attacking someone who didn't see them coming from that direction. While you can tab your camera, it was a temporary thing (just an easier way to look around vs turning around) so you weren't constantly aware of your surroundings without applying effort. With 3rd person games, the player can easily see all around them, around corners, etc... which eliminates the surprise of turning a corner and walking right into a room of mobs or missing that pathing mob that comes up behind you from a side room.
As for immersion, these days that can be resolved with technology a heck of a lot easier an cheaper than it could years ago. You can get large, wide and curved displays to provide that peripheral view. That or you can pick up 3 - 4 displays and create a setup that has your front, sides, and above views. It may even be possible to get something like Oculus Rift (VR headset) to work as well.
The main point though is that 3rd person has too many advantages over first person in its ability to see areas for game play and I think that ruins subtle game play elements. It is why I miss well done first person games these days. Most are just over the shoulder arcade style running around staring at your self and for me personally, that just breaks the feel of the game.
Edit:
Oh here is another thing in the same vein of what I am talking about. In early EQ, you had to sit and med. While a caster did so, they had to look at their spell book to regen their mana. This spell book took up the entire view window. That is, you could not see anything in the world.
People complained until this was changed, they saw it as an "inconvenience" when in fact this was an intended design mechanic. The very reason people complained about it ("I can't see if something is coming up on me") was the very reason it was as it was. You had to be careful where you med, pay attention to your area, not med in a spot where you could get spawned on, etc...
In fact, certain classes had tools to deal with this mechanic. For instance, the druid had a tree illusion which would allow them to essentially safely hide from mobs so they could med without being attacked.
This is an important mechanic and it dealt with the subtle element of disallowing people to see all of their surroundings at all times. It freaked the heck out of some people, made them nervous about being attacked, etc... It served its very purpose. These are the things that need to return to games, things people didn't realize the layers of play such provided.
Convenience demands have killed many elements of MMO gaming over the years and we wonder why something is missing these days? hmmmm
If everything was properly balanced to effort and rewarded for such, there would be no need to pay money in the store as it would be enjoyable experience just to play the game. So, content is designed to encourage the desire to use these consumables. There may be very long and mundane grinds to achieve results (exp, items, faction, etc...) where the rewards are not really worth that extreme effort of play. This encourages the mentality of seeking a bonus to make the play more tolerable. This is the basis of how most FTP MMO marketing works (even those that focus on cosmetics still sell consumables for boosts).
Contrast that with most PTP MMOs where their only goal is to keep you playing and interested and you have different design goals. For me, I avoid FTP games like the plague because I know their design goals are counter to game play. They are just interested in finding a way to get me to spend money in the store and this is why you start to see all kinds of "gimmicks" in content they make.
So FTP games and PTP games are a distinct market of appeal and style of development focus.
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I said it before it will be the small guy in some basement that will make the next great MMO.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Vanguard
- Bad engine, please don't use the Everquest 2 engine and coding this time. Even to this day it sucks for EQ2.
- Bad politics, and early release.
Brad McQuaid, I'm sure is for the public. His vision is/was sound. And sure he would like to clear a bad reputation just like anyone. Things got out of control with Vanguard and his name was stamped on it.
Now the makers of ArcheAge and anyone affiliated with scamming in mind should be ran out of town !
This "new Blood" is the reason i did not touch a MMO in years (apart from EQ).
The only way to get me back into MMOs is providing an experience like the one that got me into the genre, not one that drove me away.
To the second point: Maybe. Unlikely tho since MMOs take a lot of money. You usually don't have money if you are in your basement.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Please...please...please don't bring up the "M" word here. You cannot imagine the Pandora's Box that will become.
This game might be that one game with a shitty kickstarter, who got beaten and learned it in the hard way, and brainstormed back to the old ages and will take everyone by surprise (theres yet to be a decent mmorpg released with kickstarter) Maybe camelot will succeed, crowfall will die slowly, itll start like swtor, ppl get easily tired of crossair aiming, or get athritis that would force them to quit, and the majority of players will be ppl from
Brad was in charge, it was his decisions and mismanagement that created the disaster that Vanguard became. He was in charge and as such is solely responsible for the failure. He may have excellent vision, but I for one will never trust anything that has name attached to it until it has successfully launched, is proven stable, and has a proven track record of consistent patches and new content. Then I may consider playing it.