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Ever notice some players don't understand or imagine uncommon MMORPG concepts?

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Wizardry said:

    I really feel that is why this new age of pvp is so attractive,it is more about pay to win than using tactics,it allows all the bad players to just farm the best loot over time and go into pvp with superior stats and gear or a superior level.


    not e-sports game like LoL. 
  • eye_meye_m Member UncommonPosts: 3,317

    I know what you mean. Concepts like

    •  B2P is not F2P 
    • a lack of a trinity still allows for more than just dps roles. 
    •  and gear progression isn't required for endgame. 



    Yeah, there are a lot of concepts that some players can't comprehend.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,852
    Axehilt said:
    OP, yeah, I know exactly what you are talking about too.
    Hard to remember the specifics for examples, but AI is top on my list generally speaking.

    On a side note, I see those same names we all know, those mighty defenders of all that is holy and status quo, are here to give you a hard time just like every thread that threatens their pitiful existence. They are the status of the quo. I even have nick names for them:
    Axe-to-Grind
    Lobotomy-fit
    Nary-o'-Seldom.

    LOL
    When a person makes a claim, they need to provide logic or evidence supporting it. Otherwise it's considered baseless nonsense. The OP's claim is vague and lacks evidence (examples), and after several requests no evidence has surfaced. That's why the OP is having a hard time.

    It's like your claim here that a thread at some point "threatened" our existence. Even the loosest implication of that claim is wrong, since MMORPG.com threads don't really have much influence over how MMORPGs are made. So no thread here could possibly "threaten our existence" (in the loosest sense: by significantly changing how MMORPGs are made.) That just doesn't happen. You're making a baseless claim.

    But if you'd like to leave the veiled insults and imaginary claims behind and discuss real things, we'll still be here and you're welcome to join us.
    Really, I don't give a squat about your explanations, nor your demands.
    You and the others do nothing but attack anyone who posts anything that might possibly lead to game play that's different than the current boring same ol' swill that's being pushed out the doors. Or challenges that status quo in any way.

    You've made our participation here something we have to constantly defend, and a nightmare to do.
    You're not only killing MMORPGs, you're killing these forums. (And others, this has been a widespread thing for years.)

    Once upon a time....

  • HalandirHalandir Member UncommonPosts: 773
    waynejr2 said:
    Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy. 
    sometimes it is about how you present the message.
    Well played sir - And absolutely rigtht.
    Old school elitism comes with an elevated price on new playgrounds :)

    We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
    (repeat ad infinitum)

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    edited October 2015
    Axehilt said:
    OP, yeah, I know exactly what you are talking about too.
    Hard to remember the specifics for examples, but AI is top on my list generally speaking.

    On a side note, I see those same names we all know, those mighty defenders of all that is holy and status quo, are here to give you a hard time just like every thread that threatens their pitiful existence. They are the status of the quo. I even have nick names for them:
    Axe-to-Grind
    Lobotomy-fit
    Nary-o'-Seldom.

    LOL
    When a person makes a claim, they need to provide logic or evidence supporting it. Otherwise it's considered baseless nonsense. The OP's claim is vague and lacks evidence (examples), and after several requests no evidence has surfaced. That's why the OP is having a hard time.

    It's like your claim here that a thread at some point "threatened" our existence. Even the loosest implication of that claim is wrong, since MMORPG.com threads don't really have much influence over how MMORPGs are made. So no thread here could possibly "threaten our existence" (in the loosest sense: by significantly changing how MMORPGs are made.) That just doesn't happen. You're making a baseless claim.

    But if you'd like to leave the veiled insults and imaginary claims behind and discuss real things, we'll still be here and you're welcome to join us.
    Really, I don't give a squat about your explanations, nor your demands.
    You and the others do nothing but attack anyone who posts anything that might possibly lead to game play that's different than the current boring same ol' swill that's being pushed out the doors. Or challenges that status quo in any way.

    You've made our participation here something we have to constantly defend, and a nightmare to do.
    You're not only killing MMORPGs, you're killing these forums. (And others, this has been a widespread thing for years.)
    This has got to be the single most bizarre interpretation of Axehilt's and my posts, if for no other reason than you singled out people that have never posted anything even remotely inferring the strange agendas you suggest.  

    I mean, I'm glad you're having fun giggling over pet names for us, because everyone needs some joy in their life, but ... wow, that's some hardcore Kool-Aid you've whipped up for yourself, man. 
     

    EDIT: I think the icing on this oddness cake is that you make the above two bolded/italicized comments just minutes after you create a post telling someone that is making a caveman MMO that they need to add magic and be more of a 'Trolls and Dragons' game than a Paleolithic Life sim. (link
    Post edited by Loktofeit on

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    Halandir said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy. 
    sometimes it is about how you present the message.
    Well played sir - And absolutely rigtht.
    Old school elitism comes with an elevated price on new playgrounds :)
    *Shrugs*  I am not insulting anyone.  I never gave an example.  I never said anyone was stupid. I never said old way were better.  Sounds like people have predisposed defensive reflexes.  *Shrugs*

    It's just that surprisingly people don't have concepts of non typical features many that existed before.  Not really surprisingly when you think the growth of the genre with WoW and the following trend hasn't exposed them to it.  
  • mmorobommorobo Member UncommonPosts: 126
    Halandir said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy. 
    sometimes it is about how you present the message.
    Well played sir - And absolutely rigtht.
    Old school elitism comes with an elevated price on new playgrounds :)
    *Shrugs*  I am not insulting anyone.  I never gave an example.  I never said anyone was stupid. I never said old way were better.  Sounds like people have predisposed defensive reflexes.  *Shrugs*

    It's just that surprisingly people don't have concepts of non typical features many that existed before.  Not really surprisingly when you think the growth of the genre with WoW and the following trend hasn't exposed them to it.  
    I can't disagree or agree.  The only thing I can say after reading this entire thread is I have no clue what you are talking about.  Is it because I only played WoW for the first 3 months and thought it wasn't my thing so I moved on to other games?  I have played other MMOs before and after WoWs release.

     I just can't figure out what "concepts of non typical features" you mean.  I am not including people who can't figure out almost any concept, yes they are out there.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    mmorobo said:
    Halandir said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy. 
    sometimes it is about how you present the message.
    Well played sir - And absolutely rigtht.
    Old school elitism comes with an elevated price on new playgrounds :)
    *Shrugs*  I am not insulting anyone.  I never gave an example.  I never said anyone was stupid. I never said old way were better.  Sounds like people have predisposed defensive reflexes.  *Shrugs*

    It's just that surprisingly people don't have concepts of non typical features many that existed before.  Not really surprisingly when you think the growth of the genre with WoW and the following trend hasn't exposed them to it.  
    I can't disagree or agree.  The only thing I can say after reading this entire thread is I have no clue what you are talking about.  Is it because I only played WoW for the first 3 months and thought it wasn't my thing so I moved on to other games?  I have played other MMOs before and after WoWs release.

     I just can't figure out what "concepts of non typical features" you mean.  I am not including people who can't figure out almost any concept, yes they are out there.
    Like MMORPG with no levels, no questhub progression, no raiding end game and things of that nature.  
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Like MMORPG with no levels, no questhub progression, no raiding end game and things of that nature.  
    Can you link to one of the posts or threads you are referring to? I'm interested in where you are seeing MMORPG.com posters lost as to those things being possibilities. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    mmorobo said:
    Halandir said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy. 
    sometimes it is about how you present the message.
    Well played sir - And absolutely rigtht.
    Old school elitism comes with an elevated price on new playgrounds :)
    *Shrugs*  I am not insulting anyone.  I never gave an example.  I never said anyone was stupid. I never said old way were better.  Sounds like people have predisposed defensive reflexes.  *Shrugs*

    It's just that surprisingly people don't have concepts of non typical features many that existed before.  Not really surprisingly when you think the growth of the genre with WoW and the following trend hasn't exposed them to it.  
    I can't disagree or agree.  The only thing I can say after reading this entire thread is I have no clue what you are talking about.  Is it because I only played WoW for the first 3 months and thought it wasn't my thing so I moved on to other games?  I have played other MMOs before and after WoWs release.

     I just can't figure out what "concepts of non typical features" you mean.  I am not including people who can't figure out almost any concept, yes they are out there.
    Like MMORPG with no levels, no questhub progression, no raiding end game and things of that nature.  

    To be quite honest and blunt here. After all the proclamations I personally made about no level play, harsh death quest hubs and raids, I actually sat down and reviewed my OWN playing habits.

    I was actually shocked that I LIKED it as it was.

    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Hatefull said: 
    To clarify, I am most definitely an MMO veteran, and I am not guilty of anything you describe.  The point here is; speak for yourself please.  Your generalization and assumption are not helping your...discussion only alienating a part of this hobby you are speaking about.  Which is ironic since you are damning them for doing the exact thing you just did.
    If you never assumed any lost features from early MMORPGs were great ideas then you can see how the way I worded it ("The OP's complaint is somewhat ironic, because MMORPG veterans display a similar close-mindedness when they automatically assume all features of early MMORPGs were great ideas.") obviously doesn't apply to you, nor is it a generalization (it's a specific commentary on people who did automatically assume all features of early MMORPGs were good ideas.)

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    mmorobo said:
    Halandir said:
    waynejr2 said:
    Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy. 
    sometimes it is about how you present the message.
    Well played sir - And absolutely rigtht.
    Old school elitism comes with an elevated price on new playgrounds :)
    *Shrugs*  I am not insulting anyone.  I never gave an example.  I never said anyone was stupid. I never said old way were better.  Sounds like people have predisposed defensive reflexes.  *Shrugs*

    It's just that surprisingly people don't have concepts of non typical features many that existed before.  Not really surprisingly when you think the growth of the genre with WoW and the following trend hasn't exposed them to it.  
    I can't disagree or agree.  The only thing I can say after reading this entire thread is I have no clue what you are talking about.  Is it because I only played WoW for the first 3 months and thought it wasn't my thing so I moved on to other games?  I have played other MMOs before and after WoWs release.

     I just can't figure out what "concepts of non typical features" you mean.  I am not including people who can't figure out almost any concept, yes they are out there.
    Like MMORPG with no levels, no questhub progression, no raiding end game and things of that nature.  

    That sounds like a lack of those things rather than new ideas.  You want to talk about new things, how about telling us what new things you are thinking about.   Do you actually have these new ideas or are you asking us to create them for you?
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Really, I don't give a squat about your explanations, nor your demands.
    You and the others do nothing but attack anyone who posts anything that might possibly lead to game play that's different than the current boring same ol' swill that's being pushed out the doors. Or challenges that status quo in any way.

    You've made our participation here something we have to constantly defend, and a nightmare to do.
    You're not only killing MMORPGs, you're killing these forums. (And others, this has been a widespread thing for years.)
    If you'd make claims backed by logic and/or evidence, you'd find they're not nightmares to defend. You just lay down facts and your position is rock solid.

    Conversely if you spout emotion-charged nonsense like "you're killing MMORPGs" well then you're going to find it's impossible to defend that claim.

    Surely you see the cause and effect: say something defenseless -> struggle to defend it. The solution is to avoid saying things which are defenseless. Try true things. You'll find they work better.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 10,014
    Forget uncommon concepts I met many who had no clue what a tank, healer, support, or DPS was......WoW was notorious for stupid players who employed the Leroy Jenkins method of fighting.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited October 2015
    Forget uncommon concepts I met many who had no clue what a tank, healer, support, or DPS was......WoW was notorious for stupid players who employed the Leroy Jenkins method of fighting.
    Because WOW was full of people who had never even played an RPG before, how do you expect them to function in an MMORPG?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • jc234jc234 Member UncommonPosts: 91
    Sounds like the dissatisfaction regarding new MMOs have finally crossed paths with our current culture models.
    I bring you, the 21st century - where everyone is reminiscing about the 20th century.

    From memory and experience, I don't think I recall much non-typical features and mechanics, this leads me to the logical conclusion that it was either not good enough or not shit enough to even remember. This is also the reason why World of Warcraft managed its success, it borrowed from what were tried and tested, it improved on what were found lacking and it removed the nonsense.

    These players the OPs referring to are just seeking entertainment in the form of a game with nostalgia in mind. If you referred to a concrete example of just one mechanic or feature that is missing from modern MMORPGs, this would've been a lot easier to discuss.
  • mmorobommorobo Member UncommonPosts: 126
    Distopia said:
    Forget uncommon concepts I met many who had no clue what a tank, healer, support, or DPS was......WoW was notorious for stupid players who employed the Leroy Jenkins method of fighting.
    Because WOW was full of people who had never even played an RPG before, how do you expect them to function in an MMORPG?
    Hate to say it, not in WoW, but we had one couple in our guild who got lost in a hallway.  It had doors on both ends and a few left and right turns.  No other way in or out of the hallway.  While the rest of the party took about 20 seconds to get through, we waited over 5 min for them.  And they were not AFK, just kept turning around at a right or left turn.  They were really nice people, just clueless.  They kept asking for help as they were lost.  As someone replied "But it's a hallway" we couldn't help but laugh and it became became our guild motto.  Good times  ......
  • jc234jc234 Member UncommonPosts: 91
    mmorobo said:
    Distopia said:
    Forget uncommon concepts I met many who had no clue what a tank, healer, support, or DPS was......WoW was notorious for stupid players who employed the Leroy Jenkins method of fighting.
    Because WOW was full of people who had never even played an RPG before, how do you expect them to function in an MMORPG?
    Hate to say it, not in WoW, but we had one couple in our guild who got lost in a hallway.  It had doors on both ends and a few left and right turns.  No other way in or out of the hallway.  While the rest of the party took about 20 seconds to get through, we waited over 5 min for them.  And they were not AFK, just kept turning around at a right or left turn.  They were really nice people, just clueless.  They kept asking for help as they were lost.  As someone replied "But it's a hallway" we couldn't help but laugh and it became became our guild motto.  Good times  ......
    +1 for fond memories! It was never about the game but the people you played with and the "adventures" you could create together.
  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,413
    I wonder how many, today, have any conception of the following terms...seeing as how, in many games, the need for these terms has been all but eliminated:

    IC
    OOC
    Bot
    RMT
    GM
    Textfight
    PK

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Beatnik59 said:
    I wonder how many, today, have any conception of the following terms...seeing as how, in many games, the need for these terms has been all but eliminated:

    IC
    OOC
    Bot
    RMT
    GM
    Textfight
    PK


    :: runs naked through thread ::

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    mmorobo said:
    Distopia said:
    Forget uncommon concepts I met many who had no clue what a tank, healer, support, or DPS was......WoW was notorious for stupid players who employed the Leroy Jenkins method of fighting.
    Because WOW was full of people who had never even played an RPG before, how do you expect them to function in an MMORPG?
    Hate to say it, not in WoW, but we had one couple in our guild who got lost in a hallway.  It had doors on both ends and a few left and right turns.  No other way in or out of the hallway.  While the rest of the party took about 20 seconds to get through, we waited over 5 min for them.  And they were not AFK, just kept turning around at a right or left turn.  They were really nice people, just clueless.  They kept asking for help as they were lost.  As someone replied "But it's a hallway" we couldn't help but laugh and it became became our guild motto.  Good times  ......
    lol

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AkerbeltzAkerbeltz Member UncommonPosts: 170
    At the end of the day, it all stems from Plato's myth of the cavern.

    Many people have only known the world of shadows of the cavern, thus are unable to conceive the reality outside. When the runaway comes back to the cavern after being wandering outside, everybody takes him by a fool and a liar.

    It might sound like a cliché, but AAA MMORPGs post-WOW have became standarized and uniform both in functionality and concepts, and worst of all, many players take for granted that as the only possible model for a MMORPG.

    The entrance of the cavern is clogged by narratives such as "play-safe-from-an-investment-point-of-view", "accesibility", "my-8-year-old-should-be-able-to-play-too", "that-is-too-complex-for-the-majority", "i-can-only-play-15-mins-a-day-but-i-deserve-to-have-all-the-goodies", etc.   

    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    Akerbeltz said:
    At the end of the day, it all stems from Plato's myth of the cavern.

    Many people have only known the world of shadows of the cavern, thus are unable to conceive the reality outside. When the runaway comes back to the cavern after being wandering outside, everybody takes him by a fool and a liar.

    It might sound like a cliché, but AAA MMORPGs post-WOW have became standarized and uniform both in functionality and concepts, and worst of all, many players take for granted that as the only possible model for a MMORPG.

    The entrance of the cavern is clogged by narratives such as "play-safe-from-an-investment-point-of-view", "accesibility", "my-8-year-old-should-be-able-to-play-too", "that-is-too-complex-for-the-majority", "i-can-only-play-15-mins-a-day-but-i-deserve-to-have-all-the-goodies", etc.   
    The modern myth involves "modern" players who are too dumb to pound sand, and it's all their fault that game devs made the choices they made.

    It gets repeated and expanded by every lame PuG story, and every "players were just inherently better back then" mythologist.

    It's every bit the myth, but a certain kind of ego desperately needs it to be true; it supports their worldview, their self-congratulatory egoboo; build me up by constantly tearing others down.

    "Why can't they understand why such olden tyme MMO simple ideas where peachy-keen, it's so self-evident?"

    "Why can't olden tyme mmo players understand MMO evolution driven by market forces has nothing to with individual players, it's so self-evident?"
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 5,094
    Its one thing that I have seen is that the genre has many standardized features. Discussing old or outside of the box feature with people who never  played it... they act likely your talking about something impossible or crazy. 
    I have quite the other experience.

    People who come up with stupid ideas believe they will succeed simply because they "havent been done before" (they probably have, and havent sticked for good reason), or worse because they are "realistic" (but result in a bad game).

    A game has to have a certain inner logic. For example a game that is based on the idea of progression, you work hours, days, months or even years on getting a single item, cannot have full loot or permanent item decay because that will make people /ragequit, and for good reason.

  • AkerbeltzAkerbeltz Member UncommonPosts: 170

    The modern myth involves "modern" players who are too dumb to pound sand, and it's all their fault that game devs made the choices they made.

    It gets repeated and expanded by every lame PuG story, and every "players were just inherently better back then" mythologist.

    It's every bit the myth, but a certain kind of ego desperately needs it to be true; it supports their worldview, their self-congratulatory egoboo; build me up by constantly tearing others down.

    "Why can't they understand why such olden tyme MMO simple ideas where peachy-keen, it's so self-evident?"

    "Why can't olden tyme mmo players understand MMO evolution driven by market forces has nothing to with individual players, it's so self-evident?"
    Well, I'd say the modern myth involves bitter vets wanting to get back to the old formulas in the name of their master race "egoboos" and their e-penishes. A logic that takes reductionism to absurd levels with aims to kill any proposal for improvements or drastic variations in the current MMO standard.

    Anyway, thanks for your comment. It was fun.

    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

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