I have very fond mermories of DAOC. The game had it all for me. I cannot get how they cannot replicate that. I am personally looking forward to camelot unchained. I like the way the owners talk about their game : "We dont need 1m+ suscribers"...Meaning it really is a player/player community, especially with all the fund raising comming from players themselves that love what they are doign with the game.
Yep, a personal issue. I'd certainly love to have City of Heroes back, and the present slate of MMOs don't have deep appeal to me. But that's mostly on me.
But why? Why is that just on you? Its on me too, so obviously its not personal than, this is a over-arching issue that effects alot of people, and alot of different type of gamers.
MMOs arent just for MMO players, they are for RPG players, SIM players, FPS players, MMO's literally represent the greatest opputunity to challenge online gameplay and the idea is being wasted on F2P linear garbage-trash piece games.
We need innovation, we need to stop stagnating and bring back the things weve lost before we reach the MMOPOCALYPSE.
While I agree with you, it is more of a me problem because it's not going to change. I stopped hoping and quit playing mmo's altogether and I don't miss them in the least. I have moved on to co-op and sp games. I still frequent this site and others for news on coming games, but I don't don't hold my breath on finding something I like. As long as the majority are being released as f2p and developed in the east, I won't be playing them.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I think the main problem is that vanilla WoW got it just right and so everything else doesn't feel as good.
As a WoW vet, who played from very beginning until late WotLK, I recently started playing vanilla WoW on private server. I just wanted to see whether it was nostalgia when I think about how good vanilla WoW was, or was that game really that good.
And yes, in it's "vanilla" state, it was and still is that good. Just the perfect mix of theme park and some sandboxy elements.
In it's vanilla state, WoW was like a great sports car with no electronics, which needed just a bit of fine tuning to be perfect. By "fine tuning" it, Blizzard turned it into a self-driving bus with disco ball and leopard seats.
As an experiment, try telling your significant other that she's stale and needs to change and you liked her better the way she was 15 years ago... report outcome here
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Pretty much at the same place as you. Most new games are catering so hard to people willing to throw wads of cash at them to basicly not have to play to get shit done, not to mention the difficulty is already at the smash head into spacebar level/ride a railroad to pwnsaucecity.. where everyone is equal even the biggest retards will have what you have just slower or to a greater cost.
I've gone through most free to play MMORPG's alot of the P2P ones aswell, not to mention alot of other genres of games. And the short story about most modern multiplayer games imo is they all fall short, mostly because they're all so balanced and everything is so damn honkeydory like gamers have become so retarded and lazy that we are incapable of solving complex problems and working together.
The most glaring example i have is World of warcraft i found the game very enjoyable up til wrath of the lichking.. AQ and Original Naxx was in a class of its own.. but after that Blizzard pulled the stupid lever go dumber ! (repeatedly) and at least for me that did it.
The games that did manage to captivate me wound up in the more complex/hardcore cathergory, basicly anything with full loot/perma death or just generally really good crafting systems or something that required a good group of people, preferably with high mechnical and social skills needed
These games will always be in my heart for various reasons and the sad thing is nothing new beeing produced is even competing...
Anyone else felt like bot or might just aswell have been one playing mordern mmorpgs? (just waiting for auto pathing inbetween quest markers to become industry standard)
Seriously, I was just scrolling down the list of highly rated and released MMO's and none of them sounded appealing. Like literally every single one of them was just giving me a sour feeling and making my head spin.
One of the top rated "MMO's" on this site right now is SMITE. SMITE is a moba!! Its not even an MMO!
ESO is repetitive, FF14 is nothing but grind, Secret World is all mystery no substance, Guild Wars 2 is just Meh.
Literally nothing, you know what I want?
COH
SWG
Everquest 1999
Anything that just lets me make a character in an RPG and head out in the world looking for adventure and danger.
Im sick of hand holding, im sick of exclamation marks above peoples heads, im sick of soloing the content and feeling like a god at level 1. I want a challenge, I want to live in a VIRTUAL WORLD again.
~Fin
whats stopping you from doing that in Rift, or GW2 or even WoW?
nothing but their own stupidity.
I once tried to do that in Rift - skip all of the quests, don't use any equipment I didn't craft, loot, or buy from a vendor, do nothing but farm mobs, participate in public events, explore etc. and you know what?
It was fun!
WoW is actually a pretty good game for that too now, as you can get a good chunk of XP with gathering professions (herbalism/mining) and through Archaeology.
It's also fun to try and keep your professions, including all of the secondary professions, even with your level as it requires a lot of grinding.
And if you want that sense of danger? Roll on a PvP server!
With how they have done the cross-realm zones, and with all of the high levels in Draenor and instances, you'd be surprised how often you start running into even-leveled opponents in the mid-level zones.
Only thing that kind of sucks about that is that lots of them are in full heirloom gear, so unless you are too the fights can be a bit one sided.
Pretty much at the same place as you. Most new games are catering so hard to people willing to throw wads of cash at them to basicly not have to play to get shit done, not to mention the difficulty is already at the smash head into spacebar level/ride a railroad to pwnsaucecity.. where everyone is equal even the biggest retards will have what you have just slower or to a greater cost.
I've gone through most free to play MMORPG's alot of the P2P ones aswell, not to mention alot of other genres of games. And the short story about most modern multiplayer games imo is they all fall short, mostly because they're all so balanced and everything is so damn honkeydory like gamers have become so retarded and lazy that we are incapable of solving complex problems and working together.
The most glaring example i have is World of warcraft i found the game very enjoyable up til wrath of the lichking.. AQ and Original Naxx was in a class of its own.. but after that Blizzard pulled the stupid lever go dumber ! (repeatedly) and at least for me that did it.
The games that did manage to captivate me wound up in the more complex/hardcore cathergory, basicly anything with full loot/perma death or just generally really good crafting systems or something that required a good group of people, preferably with high mechnical and social skills needed
These games will always be in my heart for various reasons and the sad thing is nothing new beeing produced is even competing...
Anyone else felt like bot or might just aswell have been one playing mordern mmorpgs? (just waiting for auto pathing inbetween quest markers to become industry standard)
-Grumpy old fart that like to play
It's the equality problem caused by social pressure and different lifestyles that started this in the first place. The pay systems got put in because it makes the company money and it makes it easier for people with less time to stay relevant, without overly benefiting those who do have the time to invest. At least that was the hypothesis when the system was started. Obviously companies love the idea since it makes them more money, and hypothetically players like the idea that they can keep up with heavy grinders by putting more money into their favorite game, but in practice it started all sorts of issues like p2w.
It would be so much better if they just stopped trying to appease both ends of the spectrum and made two different games, but that is life for you.
Lack of appreciation and gratitude in this thread is astounding.
We are talking about video games - a privilege that many can't even imagine and here you are complaning about lack in a sea of abundance.
Maybe some here don't deserve to play any games period.
No soup for yall
Well we are consumers after all, think of your super market, if it suddenly most of the food you boght got changed into beans and carrots, except you don't like beans and carrots so you are abit lost, the pizza that you so love the only ones available are well out of date or frozen rubbish.
As a consumer I am not happy with the market, I only continue playing because 'i have to buy food' or in reality I am an mmo gamer.
If it continues for another few years though I will end up quiting, only so much crap I can handle afterall. Maybe I'll get an outdoor hobby instead lmao!
But yeah.. MMOs are bad atm and I don't need to feel appreciative for what they are right now, people should strive to do better and whats on offer right now is pretty crap.
I can respect things like GW2 and EVE but I am looking for something else, a fantasy type that leans heavy on pvp but not JUST pvp.
I played conquer online 10 years ago it was right in so many ways. (bad in many too though hah)
That's your opinion and I disagree with you.
The current mmos are just as amazing as back when I played UO and EQ1 in 1998/1999.
Let me help you with the supermarket analogy. The problem is you walk into a normal supermarket and its full of all kinds of foods for you to buy and enjoy. So you sit there and say I see nothing but beans and carrots here. Yet its full of variety the only thing you can see is the beans/carrots making yourself miserable with the whole thing. Seriously this thread is gonna make me write a thread on how to enjoy mmorpg's when you are too negative.
Seriously, I was just scrolling down the list of highly rated and released MMO's and none of them sounded appealing. Like literally every single one of them was just giving me a sour feeling and making my head spin.
One of the top rated "MMO's" on this site right now is SMITE. SMITE is a moba!! Its not even an MMO!
ESO is repetitive, FF14 is nothing but grind, Secret World is all mystery no substance, Guild Wars 2 is just Meh.
Literally nothing, you know what I want?
COH
SWG
Everquest 1999
Anything that just lets me make a character in an RPG and head out in the world looking for adventure and danger.
Im sick of hand holding, im sick of exclamation marks above peoples heads, im sick of soloing the content and feeling like a god at level 1. I want a challenge, I want to live in a VIRTUAL WORLD again.
~Fin
All those games you mentioned are horror stories.
SWG was the worst thing to happen in mmorpg history. That game was a huge turd and yes, I can speak straight from experience.
Nobody likes games like SWG. That's why the only ever had 300k subs....ever..and according to SWG themselves, that was on a friday night when an event was being held.
My bad, they stayed at 10k subs : Subscriber numbers were originally expected to exceed 1,000,000.[58] In August 2005, SOE reported that they had sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game.[59] In early 2006, unconfirmed reports showed that only 10,363 subscribers were playing on a particular Friday night, but Smedley denied that subscriptions had fallen this low.[60]
The highest I have found anywhere for SWG sub nimbers range from 10k to 150k.
Honestly, if the demand was high enough, these game would be made or still around.
Nobody really likes open world pvp, especially when you're trying to do something important and people keep ganking you. And yes at times I forgot in SWG that I was flagged for PvP. Chalk it up to my bad.
The NGE, pre cu, etc. Killed it. this game never even knew what direction it wanted to go and the dev team were straight up tools.
I think the main problem is that vanilla WoW got it just right and so everything else doesn't feel as good.
Well, except it didnt. No FFA servers, no territory or resource control, pointless open world combat, no meaningful progression outside of "Dance with the Stars" raiding/gear grind, just endless hamster wheel run ad naseum.
Hardly my idea of getting it just right, though it is the 3rd longest MMO I've played.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the main problem is that vanilla WoW got it just right and so everything else doesn't feel as good.
Well, except it didnt. No FFA servers, no territory or resource control, pointless open world combat, no meaningful progression outside of "Dance with the Stars" raiding/gear grind, just endless hamster wheel run ad naseum.
Hardly my idea of getting it just right, though it is the 3rd longest MMO I've played.
No .. it is not my idea of getting it just right either. There is no LFD, LFR. Combat is not exciting enough. You have to actually travel to dungeons instead of just teleport there. Open world pvp is a pain in the butt.
MMO players used to be more forgiving, then the market flooded with new mmo titles because of how popular wow was. This made mmo players far more demanding.
Now the mmo flood has stopped, mmo players are going to have to lower their expectations way back because there are not going to be many new mmo titles from here on out.
Honestly, sounds like MMOs aren't your type of thing. Take off your rose colored glasses and attempt to play something, or maybe find a new hobby because I don't know if anything will change for you any time soon.
Seriously this thread is gonna make me write a thread on how to enjoy mmorpg's when you are too negative.
It would be a waste of time and an exercise in futility. Those people don't want to be happy, they just want to bitch. It's about attention not resolution. They don't really like mmos. They liked playing a game during a snapshot in time that will never happen again.
It's too bad there isn't a website that caters to all kinds of MMORPG players. A forum where diverse opinions about MMORPGs is discussed regardless of whether or not that person is actually in the industry or just a consumer who would like to vent to fans of the same general kind of games.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
SWG was the worst thing to happen in mmorpg history. That game was a huge turd and yes, I can speak straight from experience.
Nobody likes games like SWG. That's why the only ever had 300k subs....ever..and according to SWG themselves, that was on a friday night when an event was being held.
My bad, they stayed at 10k subs : Subscriber numbers were originally expected to exceed 1,000,000.[58] In August 2005, SOE reported that they had sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game.[59] In early 2006, unconfirmed reports showed that only 10,363 subscribers were playing on a particular Friday night, but Smedley denied that subscriptions had fallen this low.[60]
The highest I have found anywhere for SWG sub nimbers range from 10k to 150k.
Honestly, if the demand was high enough, these game would be made or still around.
Nobody really likes open world pvp, especially when you're trying to do something important and people keep ganking you. And yes at times I forgot in SWG that I was flagged for PvP. Chalk it up to my bad.
The NGE, pre cu, etc. Killed it. this game never even knew what direction it wanted to go and the dev team were straight up tools.
I enjoyed your use of some magical consensus of who likes what, simultaneously engaging the Nobody played SWG argument, while also discussing the topic with people who are plainly saying that they want to play a game like SWG.
If SWG had 300 subs at peak it doesn't matter, it is still used as an example of what some people would like to play. If I said that it was the most successful game of all time then your numbers would matter, but for many reasons they don't. Quoting the numbers is just the tip of the rote anti-SWG talking points consisting largely of bad analogies and straw men.
I will take SWG with all of its bugs and design cancers any day over the highly processed but mundane games available now.
I will agree that it may have been the worst thing to happen to MMORPGs, because compared to SWG the rest of the games after it have sucked imo.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Seriously this thread is gonna make me write a thread on how to enjoy mmorpg's when you are too negative.
It would be a waste of time and an exercise in futility. Those people don't want to be happy, they just want to bitch. It's about attention not resolution. They don't really like mmos. They liked playing a game during a snapshot in time that will never happen again.
It's too bad there isn't a website that caters to all kinds of MMORPG players. A forum where diverse opinions about MMORPGs is discussed regardless of whether or not that person is actually in the industry or just a consumer who would like to vent to fans of the same general kind of games.
It wouldn't matter. There are those who would rather stay disenfranchised than actually play games. Like I said, they don't want mmos. They want to experience a snapshot of the past.
How many times have we heard on this site how all the old games have changed and that's why they don't play them. So what they want is a static unchanging experience. But that isn't what MMOs are. They evolve and change or they stagnate and die. If a game doesn't have updates 3 or so times a year the players rant and rave. Does anyone here expect to play CU, Pantheon, and all the other upcoming throwback attempts and then expect they never update and change?
It's an impossible situation. It's not that devs aren't willing to make an oldschool experience. It's that they aren't willing to spend $20M - $80M on a demographic that is never happy and won't financially support that endeavor.
You just can't be this obtuse on the games changing issue.
EVE is a great example of a game that regularly changes, yet remains largely true to its core gameplay when it was new.
Most other MMOS get it all wrong, under going their version of a NGE which drives off the core playerbase, even WOW has faltered in this regard.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Why is it so hard to imagine an open world MMO without handholding? It seems a bit short-sighted to say "you don't like MMOs". An open world game, where you're free to play as you'd like among thousands of others isn't beyond the realm of possibility.
In fact, I would say to the people that just go from quest to quest without interacting with other players or exploring the world, "maybe MMOs aren't your thing".
Want a virtual world? Just should try Black desert then. Best virtual world I have ever seen. Its amazing. I think there are alot of good MMO's to play. So I feel sorry for you if you dont like any of the games on the marked, but then again I havent been playing MMOs for that long so maybe they just are more fresh to me than to you thats been in the genre for years.
What's the average age of posters in this thread? 30? 40? I loved cabal online when it came out, I came back everytime with excitement to unlock new skills, experience new dungeons etc. But now I'm older, I can't look at this game anymore. All I can see is p2w and ultimate grind.
You have grown out of MMORPGs (the old ones at least) These times won't come back. Accept it.
Comments
Google is your friend.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
And yes, in it's "vanilla" state, it was and still is that good. Just the perfect mix of theme park and some sandboxy elements.
In it's vanilla state, WoW was like a great sports car with no electronics, which needed just a bit of fine tuning to be perfect. By "fine tuning" it, Blizzard turned it into a self-driving bus with disco ball and leopard seats.
"There is literally NO MMORPG's to play, at all."
You keep using that word (literally). I do not think it means what you think it means. -Inigo Montoya
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I've gone through most free to play MMORPG's alot of the P2P ones aswell, not to mention alot of other genres of games. And the short story about most modern multiplayer games imo is they all fall short, mostly because they're all so balanced and everything is so damn honkeydory like gamers have become so retarded and lazy that we are incapable of solving complex problems and working together.
The most glaring example i have is World of warcraft i found the game very enjoyable up til wrath of the lichking.. AQ and Original Naxx was in a class of its own.. but after that Blizzard pulled the stupid lever go dumber ! (repeatedly) and at least for me that did it.
The games that did manage to captivate me wound up in the more complex/hardcore cathergory,
basicly anything with full loot/perma death or just generally really good crafting systems or something that required a good group of people, preferably with high mechnical and social skills needed
These games will always be in my heart for various reasons and the sad thing is nothing new beeing produced is even competing...
Cs beta-1,6
Diablo 1-II
UO
EQ
Asherons call 2
EVE online
SWG
WoW Vanilla
Anyone else felt like bot or might just aswell have been one playing mordern mmorpgs?
(just waiting for auto pathing inbetween quest markers to become industry standard)
-Grumpy old fart that like to play
It was fun!
WoW is actually a pretty good game for that too now, as you can get a good chunk of XP with gathering professions (herbalism/mining) and through Archaeology.
It's also fun to try and keep your professions, including all of the secondary professions, even with your level as it requires a lot of grinding.
And if you want that sense of danger? Roll on a PvP server!
With how they have done the cross-realm zones, and with all of the high levels in Draenor and instances, you'd be surprised how often you start running into even-leveled opponents in the mid-level zones.
Only thing that kind of sucks about that is that lots of them are in full heirloom gear, so unless you are too the fights can be a bit one sided.
It would be so much better if they just stopped trying to appease both ends of the spectrum and made two different games, but that is life for you.
SWG was the worst thing to happen in mmorpg history. That game was a huge turd and yes, I can speak straight from experience.
Nobody likes games like SWG. That's why the only ever had 300k subs....ever..and according to SWG themselves, that was on a friday night when an event was being held.
My bad, they stayed at 10k subs : Subscriber numbers were originally expected to exceed 1,000,000.[58] In August 2005, SOE reported that they had sold 1,000,000 boxed copies of the game.[59] In early 2006, unconfirmed reports showed that only 10,363 subscribers were playing on a particular Friday night, but Smedley denied that subscriptions had fallen this low.[60]
The highest I have found anywhere for SWG sub nimbers range from 10k to 150k.
Source: http://https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies
Honestly, if the demand was high enough, these game would be made or still around.
Nobody really likes open world pvp, especially when you're trying to do something important and people keep ganking you. And yes at times I forgot in SWG that I was flagged for PvP. Chalk it up to my bad.
The NGE, pre cu, etc. Killed it. this game never even knew what direction it wanted to go and the dev team were straight up tools.
Hardly my idea of getting it just right, though it is the 3rd longest MMO I've played.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Now the mmo flood has stopped, mmo players are going to have to lower their expectations way back because there are not going to be many new mmo titles from here on out.
but it is surprising to me that people are bashing OP.
It is very obvious to almost every MMORPG player that the genre is going through a serious transition, at the very least.
One could go further and say that there is a huge content hole that hasn't been successfully filled in 10 years.
Of course there remains EVE, a beautiful PVP sandbox experience for those willing to overcome the learning curve.
Titles like Crowfall, Albion Online, and Chronicles of Elyria pique my interest. We'll see what ends up working out.
~~ postlarval ~~
If SWG had 300 subs at peak it doesn't matter, it is still used as an example of what some people would like to play. If I said that it was the most successful game of all time then your numbers would matter, but for many reasons they don't. Quoting the numbers is just the tip of the rote anti-SWG talking points consisting largely of bad analogies and straw men.
I will take SWG with all of its bugs and design cancers any day over the highly processed but mundane games available now.
I will agree that it may have been the worst thing to happen to MMORPGs, because compared to SWG the rest of the games after it have sucked imo.
EVE is a great example of a game that regularly changes, yet remains largely true to its core gameplay when it was new.
Most other MMOS get it all wrong, under going their version of a NGE which drives off the core playerbase, even WOW has faltered in this regard.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In fact, I would say to the people that just go from quest to quest without interacting with other players or exploring the world, "maybe MMOs aren't your thing".
30? 40?
I loved cabal online when it came out, I came back everytime with excitement to unlock new skills, experience new dungeons etc.
But now I'm older, I can't look at this game anymore. All I can see is p2w and ultimate grind.
You have grown out of MMORPGs (the old ones at least)
These times won't come back.
Accept it.