Alomar said:
What a sad year for mmo's if ESO takes the cake.
Indeed. I seriously do not understand it. I tried getting into it, I really did. But the absence of dedicated servers for RP (or an RP 'layer' or whatever), the heavy on-rails questing and character progression, the limited character customization, the immersion-breaking half-assed justice system, absence of a wardrobe-like feature, ... This game simply lacks way too much for me to even consider it.
Alas, I could not vote for EVE, one of the few MMORPGs in the list, but thankfully there was the amazing "Show Me the Results" in every category which I was able to elect.
The sellout is complete and I'm thinking I really need to spend more time on the EVE forums.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't really buy the reasoning for leaving some games out of the vote. Shouldn't it be up to the readers to decide which game had a good year or not? Sounds to me like it's more financially beneficial if some games win the vote rather than others.
Do EVE and Pirate101 devs not buy enough advertisement in return for getting to slap "MMORPG.com MMO of the year" on their game?
P.S. I sympathize with the struggles of earning money from a site. It's tough atm being so reliant on income from devs/publishers while wanting to judge games objectively.
Indeed. I seriously do not understand it. I tried getting into it, I really did. But the absence of dedicated servers for RP (or an RP 'layer' or whatever), the heavy on-rails questing and character progression, the limited character customization, the immersion-breaking half-assed justice system, absence of a wardrobe-like feature, ... This game simply lacks way too much for me to even consider it.
Err, I dont play ESO anymore but to say lack of wardrobe feature and lack of character progression means you have literally never played this game. There is 1000x the options to progress and customize characters with champion pts, dual weaps, skill trees, equip options, etc compared to EVERY MMO out there. Also, there are 500 costumes you can equip over your armor load out, or there are customizable armor skins that can literally be anything.
WTF are you talking about? Baffling....literally....you bring up 2 points which there is no other MMO that even gets close to.
Alas, I could not vote for EVE, one of the few MMORPGs in the list, but thankfully there was the amazing "Show Me the Results" in every category which I was able to elect.
The sellout is complete and I'm thinking I really need to spend more time on the EVE forums.
"He acknowledged my fantoy was losing subscribers and traction in the marketplace, big meaniehead!!"
This is a really pityful poll.
"The Best MMO of 2015" aka "how many established titles can we remove and list Trion games instead?". I am not surprised.
You left out EVE, but got in Trove and Devilian? Both games not even hitting the 2% mark doesn't look like that was a good selection on your part.
Next time drop WoW as well and list ArcheAge instead, to take out another heavyweight and throw in a 4th Trion title.
It's no longer the "Player's Choice" if the list of options is decided by the MMORPG.COM staff, specially when that list is compiled using some pretty arbitrary and subjective criteria.
Manipulating the vote is dishonest. There should be a disclaimer somewhere.
I don't really buy the reasoning for leaving some games out of the vote. Shouldn't it be up to the readers to decide which game had a good year or not? Sounds to me like it's more financially beneficial if some games win the vote rather than others.
Do EVE and Pirate101 devs not buy enough advertisement in return for getting to slap "MMORPG.com MMO of the year" on their game?
P.S. I sympathize with the struggles of earning money from a site. It's tough atm being so reliant on income from devs/publishers while wanting to judge games objectively.
They have to set a limit somewhere, else there would be 300 titles on the poll...
With that said, MMORPG.com sometimes do some strange things on their polls, like a few years ago when they excluded SOE from the options on a MMO Company of the Year voting, or something like that, and kept silent to the questions and criticism.
Alas, I could not vote for EVE, one of the few MMORPGs in the list, but thankfully there was the amazing "Show Me the Results" in every category which I was able to elect.
The sellout is complete and I'm thinking I really need to spend more time on the EVE forums.
"He acknowledged my fantoy was losing subscribers and traction in the marketplace, big meaniehead!!"
(Of course, so is WoW, but whatev.)
Yes, because Devilian has so much "traction in the marketplace" that it's worth being listed in a Best of 2015 -where at the time of me writing this post the game now bottom-dwells with a pathetic 1%.
Losing subs or not, there's no way EVE would have been as low as that in the poll.
Bill said that reason to not include it is that "seems to be losing subscribers and foothold in the genre" and "we don't want it to flood the voting again, based on fan marching orders" which both are flawed reasons on various levels. WoW is losing subs, other games in the selection lost so many subs that they went F2P or -qualitywise- aren't even subscription material in first place. And if the fans want to vote for their game, let them vote. After all it is a public poll, right? They haven't been too concerned about people exploiting the key-giveaways for years but exclude EVE because "fans of the game could vote for it". I may be wrong on this one as i can't remember it too well, but wasn't it alright when a "fan marching order" to flood a poll for ESO on this site was posted on the Zenimax forums back then?
The poll stinks and the percentages "show me the results" get in every section speaks on it's own.
I think next year we'll just skip awards altogether. We can include every live game on the voting, and someone would still be upset because a cancelled or closed game wasn't included too.
EVE has won MULTIPLE times, and that actually played into why we didn't include it this year. We don't want the awards to just be about some studio marching people over here to vote. That said, it wasn't exactly a banner year for EVE either. We love the game and its history, we devote a biweekly column to it, despite its seeming waning importance among players.
We quite purposefully ran our Players' Choice during the time when studios tend to take a 2 week holiday. No one in marketing or PR or community will likely be aware of the polls until they're closed. In this way, it's just the people who visit the site casting the votes.
As for Trion games, they launched this year. That's why they're included. We didn't include lesser imported games, but I suppose I could have added Echo of Soul, Cabal 2, ELOA, and so forth. Devilian and Skyforge were two big letdowns for me personally, but they're included here because they launched in 2015 and that puts them in the running. Even though neither are great, we believe they're far better than some of the other truly woeful 2015 launches.
As for why one game is included, while another is not, that's what the "show me the results" option is for. We're sorry your preferred game wasn't included in the options, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
If we do the awards next year, perhaps we will go back to having a best new MMO category and a best overall MMO category. Hopefully that would solve some of the issues at this point. Maybe even a best veteran MMO category for anything that is two years or older..
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
I think next year we'll just skip awards altogether. We can include every live game on the voting, and someone would still be upset because a cancelled or closed game wasn't included too.
EVE has won MULTIPLE times, and that actually played into why we didn't include it this year. We don't want the awards to just be about some studio marching people over here to vote. That said, it wasn't exactly a banner year for EVE either. We love the game and its history, we devote a biweekly column to it, despite its seeming waning importance among players.
We quite purposefully ran our Players' Choice during the time when studios tend to take a 2 week holiday. No one in marketing or PR or community will likely be aware of the polls until they're closed. In this way, it's just the people who visit the site casting the votes.
As for Trion games, they launched this year. That's why they're included. We didn't include lesser imported games, but I suppose I could have added Echo of Soul, Cabal 2, ELOA, and so forth. Devilian and Skyforge were two big letdowns for me personally, but they're included here because they launched in 2015 and that puts them in the running. Even though neither are great, we believe they're far better than some of the other truly woeful 2015 launches.
As for why one game is included, while another is not, that's what the "show me the results" option is for. We're sorry your preferred game wasn't included in the options, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Always remember, don't let a bad PUG (/or forum community) get you down!
You've been around long enough to know there will always be upset people no matter what... not doing something because of that fact is silly.
The devs need those shiny badges to sell games! :P.
I think next year we'll just skip awards altogether. We can include every live game on the voting, and someone would still be upset because a cancelled or closed game wasn't included too.
...
As for why one game is included, while another is not, that's what the "show me the results" option is for. We're sorry your preferred game wasn't included in the options, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Having a bad day, Bill ?
That post sounds like you're threatening to take your ball and go home !
Perhaps it would be better to simply limit it to "Best NEW games of 2015" or some such. That way you can avoid the older stalwarts dominating the outcomes without having to resort to verbal acrobatics.
I think next year we'll just skip awards altogether. We can include every live game on the voting, and someone would still be upset because a cancelled or closed game wasn't included too.
EVE has won MULTIPLE times, and that actually played into why we didn't include it this year. We don't want the awards to just be about some studio marching people over here to vote. That said, it wasn't exactly a banner year for EVE either. We love the game and its history, we devote a biweekly column to it, despite its seeming waning importance among players.
We quite purposefully ran our Players' Choice during the time when studios tend to take a 2 week holiday. No one in marketing or PR or community will likely be aware of the polls until they're closed. In this way, it's just the people who visit the site casting the votes.
As for Trion games, they launched this year. That's why they're included. We didn't include lesser imported games, but I suppose I could have added Echo of Soul, Cabal 2, ELOA, and so forth. Devilian and Skyforge were two big letdowns for me personally, but they're included here because they launched in 2015 and that puts them in the running. Even though neither are great, we believe they're far better than some of the other truly woeful 2015 launches.
As for why one game is included, while another is not, that's what the "show me the results" option is for. We're sorry your preferred game wasn't included in the options, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Canceling next year because we made some noise in the chat, as usual? Hey, remember - this is interwebz
Sounds like Just Show Me the Results was content I shouldn't have missed. With an election year looming, be sure to remember your "just choose someone for me" option everyone! I wouldn't want anyone to miss out on an opportunity to be heard.
The sellout is complete and I'm thinking I really need to spend more time on the EVE forums.
Actually, no offense intended, but it's a mystery to me why someone who only likes and plays EVE would not do just that.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
bullymays said:
WTF are you talking about? Baffling....literally....you bring up 2 points which there is no other MMO that even gets close to.
Ok, an attempt to reason with you;
Wardrobe function. Have you played Rift? Lord of the Rings Online? Everquest 2? Star Wars the Old Republic? Or even WoW? And you say no other MMO even gets close. I wonder if you played anything but ESO then.
Character Customization. Again, have you played Rift? Everquest 2? Lord of the rings Online? I'll leave out WoW and SWtOR here, for obvious reasons. But have you played one of the aforementioned games? How does ESO come close to any of them? You get a basic skill pool, you get to pick which skills you like. Once you've acquired enough XP in them you get to choose between 2 tweaked versions of it. Is there anything else? Don't get me wrong, I much prefer their system over the generate talent trees various MMO provide, but to say this system is more elaborate then any other?
If we do the awards next year, perhaps we will go back to having a best new MMO category and a best overall MMO category. Hopefully that would solve some of the issues at this point. Maybe even a best veteran MMO category for anything that is two years or older..
Or maybe you could add a best MMORPG category, that would certainly limit the field, might not even be 10 games in it.
I know, put EVE and any other title that might receive a surge of Dev encouraged support in their own category, perhaps titled MMOs People Actually Care About.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If we do the awards next year, perhaps we will go back to having a best new MMO category and a best overall MMO category. Hopefully that would solve some of the issues at this point. Maybe even a best veteran MMO category for anything that is two years or older..
Or maybe you could add a best MMORPG category, that would certainly limit the field, might not even be 10 games in it.
I know, put EVE and any other title that might receive a surge of Dev encouraged support in their own category, perhaps titled MMOs People Actually Care About.
No love for Destiny in the RPG, expansion, or MMO categories?
Typical.
We millions of happy Guardians will continue our adventures while the greater media pretends it's not a good/popular game because they personally don't "get it."
If we do the awards next year, perhaps we will go back to having a best new MMO category and a best overall MMO category. Hopefully that would solve some of the issues at this point. Maybe even a best veteran MMO category for anything that is two years or older..
Why not split it into Best New MMO and Best Veteran MMO?
If we do the awards next year, perhaps we will go back to having a best new MMO category and a best overall MMO category. Hopefully that would solve some of the issues at this point. Maybe even a best veteran MMO category for anything that is two years or older..
Why not split it into Best New MMO and Best Veteran MMO?
That's what I'm suggesting. Then "One Category to Rule them All" with all entrants for the "Best Overall MMO".
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
That post sounds like you're threatening to take your ball and go home !
Perhaps it would be better to simply limit it to "Best NEW games of 2015" or some such. That way you can avoid the older stalwarts dominating the outcomes without having to resort to verbal acrobatics.
If I didn't let you guys get me down, I'd not be doing my job. I'm constantly trying to please the community with our content. And I feel truly upset when something we put together displeases even a handful of the thousands who visit the site daily. I don't like letting anyone down, even if I don't agree with their reasons for being upset.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
BillMurphy said:
If we do the awards next year, perhaps we will go back to having a best new MMO category and a best overall MMO category. Hopefully that would solve some of the issues at this point. Maybe even a best veteran MMO category for anything that is two years or older..
You shouldn't worry that much, you can't add every MMO on that list. How many do actually deserve to get Best MMO of 2015 lol? ESO, FFXIV, GW2 and SWTOR. They were miles ahead of any other MMOs in 2015, no matter what some would like to believe.
On another MMO site the results were pretty similar:
BillMurphy said:
I think next year we'll just skip awards altogether. We can include every live game on the voting, and someone would still be upset because a cancelled or closed game wasn't included too.
I think a lot more people will be fine with that decision than you think. I can think of several good reasons to why this a better direction to go. These polls are a very highly inaccurate way to judge games due to uneven "voter turn-out" rather it be multiple accounts or lack of participation. I know these polls are intended for fun, but I think that rarely is the actual end result due to the obvious responses only two pages in so far. AND.... we all know that people will likely make and post their own polls if they don't like yours in order to get the list they want, so why bother? Many people need these lists to add validation to why their game is "good" or to why someone elses game is "bad" or not as good theirs. Why add more fuel to this fire?
Comments
What a sad year for mmo's if ESO takes the cake.
Indeed. I seriously do not understand it. I tried getting into it, I really did. But the absence of dedicated servers for RP (or an RP 'layer' or whatever), the heavy on-rails questing and character progression, the limited character customization, the immersion-breaking half-assed justice system, absence of a wardrobe-like feature, ... This game simply lacks way too much for me to even consider it.
The sellout is complete and I'm thinking I really need to spend more time on the EVE forums.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Do EVE and Pirate101 devs not buy enough advertisement in return for getting to slap "MMORPG.com MMO of the year" on their game?
P.S. I sympathize with the struggles of earning money from a site. It's tough atm being so reliant on income from devs/publishers while wanting to judge games objectively.
Alomar said:
What a sad year for mmo's if ESO takes the cake.
Indeed. I seriously do not understand it. I tried getting into it, I really did. But the absence of dedicated servers for RP (or an RP 'layer' or whatever), the heavy on-rails questing and character progression, the limited character customization, the immersion-breaking half-assed justice system, absence of a wardrobe-like feature, ... This game simply lacks way too much for me to even consider it.
Err, I dont play ESO anymore but to say lack of wardrobe feature and lack of character progression means you have literally never played this game. There is 1000x the options to progress and customize characters with champion pts, dual weaps, skill trees, equip options, etc compared to EVERY MMO out there. Also, there are 500 costumes you can equip over your armor load out, or there are customizable armor skins that can literally be anything.
WTF are you talking about? Baffling....literally....you bring up 2 points which there is no other MMO that even gets close to.
(Of course, so is WoW, but whatev.)
"The Best MMO of 2015" aka "how many established titles can we remove and list Trion games instead?". I am not surprised.
You left out EVE, but got in Trove and Devilian? Both games not even hitting the 2% mark doesn't look like that was a good selection on your part.
Next time drop WoW as well and list ArcheAge instead, to take out another heavyweight and throw in a 4th Trion title.
Manipulating the vote is dishonest. There should be a disclaimer somewhere.
They have to set a limit somewhere, else there would be 300 titles on the poll...
With that said, MMORPG.com sometimes do some strange things on their polls, like a few years ago when they excluded SOE from the options on a MMO Company of the Year voting, or something like that, and kept silent to the questions and criticism.
Losing subs or not, there's no way EVE would have been as low as that in the poll.
Bill said that reason to not include it is that "seems to be losing subscribers and foothold in the genre" and "we don't want it to flood the voting again, based on fan marching orders" which both are flawed reasons on various levels.
WoW is losing subs, other games in the selection lost so many subs that they went F2P or -qualitywise- aren't even subscription material in first place.
And if the fans want to vote for their game, let them vote. After all it is a public poll, right? They haven't been too concerned about people exploiting the key-giveaways for years but exclude EVE because "fans of the game could vote for it".
I may be wrong on this one as i can't remember it too well, but wasn't it alright when a "fan marching order" to flood a poll for ESO on this site was posted on the Zenimax forums back then?
The poll stinks and the percentages "show me the results" get in every section speaks on it's own.
EVE has won MULTIPLE times, and that actually played into why we didn't include it this year. We don't want the awards to just be about some studio marching people over here to vote. That said, it wasn't exactly a banner year for EVE either. We love the game and its history, we devote a biweekly column to it, despite its seeming waning importance among players.
We quite purposefully ran our Players' Choice during the time when studios tend to take a 2 week holiday. No one in marketing or PR or community will likely be aware of the polls until they're closed. In this way, it's just the people who visit the site casting the votes.
As for Trion games, they launched this year. That's why they're included. We didn't include lesser imported games, but I suppose I could have added Echo of Soul, Cabal 2, ELOA, and so forth. Devilian and Skyforge were two big letdowns for me personally, but they're included here because they launched in 2015 and that puts them in the running. Even though neither are great, we believe they're far better than some of the other truly woeful 2015 launches.
As for why one game is included, while another is not, that's what the "show me the results" option is for. We're sorry your preferred game wasn't included in the options, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.
You've been around long enough to know there will always be upset people no matter what... not doing something because of that fact is silly.
The devs need those shiny badges to sell games! :P.
That post sounds like you're threatening to take your ball and go home !
Perhaps it would be better to simply limit it to "Best NEW games of 2015" or some such. That way you can avoid the older stalwarts dominating the outcomes without having to resort to verbal acrobatics.
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
WTF are you talking about? Baffling....literally....you bring up 2 points which there is no other MMO that even gets close to.
Ok, an attempt to reason with you;
Wardrobe function. Have you played Rift? Lord of the Rings Online? Everquest 2? Star Wars the Old Republic? Or even WoW? And you say no other MMO even gets close. I wonder if you played anything but ESO then.
Character Customization. Again, have you played Rift? Everquest 2? Lord of the rings Online? I'll leave out WoW and SWtOR here, for obvious reasons. But have you played one of the aforementioned games? How does ESO come close to any of them? You get a basic skill pool, you get to pick which skills you like. Once you've acquired enough XP in them you get to choose between 2 tweaked versions of it. Is there anything else? Don't get me wrong, I much prefer their system over the generate talent trees various MMO provide, but to say this system is more elaborate then any other?
I know, put EVE and any other title that might receive a surge of Dev encouraged support in their own category, perhaps titled MMOs People Actually Care About.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Typical.
We millions of happy Guardians will continue our adventures while the greater media pretends it's not a good/popular game because they personally don't "get it."
Why not split it into Best New MMO and Best Veteran MMO?
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.
You shouldn't worry that much, you can't add every MMO on that list. How many do actually deserve to get Best MMO of 2015 lol? ESO, FFXIV, GW2 and SWTOR. They were miles ahead of any other MMOs in 2015, no matter what some would like to believe.
On another MMO site the results were pretty similar:
1. ESO - 39%
2. FFXIV - 16%
3. GW2 - 10%
4. SWTOR - 7%
However next year don't include the option to just "see the results", force people to vote for something, rather than troll around here.
I think next year we'll just skip awards altogether. We can include every live game on the voting, and someone would still be upset because a cancelled or closed game wasn't included too.
I think a lot more people will be fine with that decision than you think. I can think of several good reasons to why this a better direction to go. These polls are a very highly inaccurate way to judge games due to uneven "voter turn-out" rather it be multiple accounts or lack of participation. I know these polls are intended for fun, but I think that rarely is the actual end result due to the obvious responses only two pages in so far. AND.... we all know that people will likely make and post their own polls if they don't like yours in order to get the list they want, so why bother? Many people need these lists to add validation to why their game is "good" or to why someone elses game is "bad" or not as good theirs. Why add more fuel to this fire?
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor