Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

If $699 wasn't good enough for VR

«1345678

Comments

  • PrecusorPrecusor Member UncommonPosts: 3,589
    That price is ridiculous.
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    Meh... I have had people pay more for a pair of cans or a mic. 

    They are probably not ready to throw Facebook levels of money at this... In fact i think they are banking on Facebook to take the brunt of the costs for selling the "affordable" headsets while they skim the top with a "deluxe" headset. 

    Now i think we will have to wait for gen 3 before the price comes down to everyman levels. Just like with flat screen TV and Blu-Ray players. 

    This have been a good conversation

  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    These prices could only be dreamed up by executives driving Ferrari's to work.

    Hey man, I can afford to drop $799 on a pair of shoes, so these things should cost about what a pair of shoes cost, right?  Am I right?
  • Nayr752Nayr752 Member UncommonPosts: 172
    That price is ridiculous. I could see them being 3-400$ but eight hundred dollars is just too much for headsets.
  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    It's a novelty peripheral. I expected them to be outrageously expensive. If it catches on expect more budget models, but I'm skeptical that it's going to catch on. 
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    edited February 2016
    What makes you think they're so cheap to build that they could be sold profitably at only $300 each?

    When people were looking at the Oculus Rift dev kit, people said stuff like, oh sure, it's not a good experience, but the final product will have massively better specs.  What do you think happens to the price tag when you want to give it massively better specs?

    One of the critical points about VR is that a low resolution, high latency, cheaper version isn't just an inferior version of a higher quality VR headset.  The cheap version would be something that basically doesn't even work for a lot of people.
  • RollieJoeRollieJoe Member UncommonPosts: 451

    Wait, wait....the initial launch of brand new, revolutionary technology won't be affordable for everyone?  Stop the presses!   Oh...wait, no, restart them again, since this has been true for every major technology, ever.  The first commercially available CD player cost about $1500 (inflation adjusted):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_CDP-101


    Personally I'm amazed the Oculus Rift and Vive are so cheap, its incredible they aren't in the $2000+ range minimum.  Many PC gamers will drop $500-800 on a fancy monitor that's only slightly better than a $80-120 model, so getting a completely different revolutionary experience for $600-800 seems dirt cheap by comparison.  Not to mention the fact that everyone these days walks around with $800 phones with $1200/yr service (my phone cost $10 to buy and $100 a year and works just fine). 


    For me the price isn't a big issue (and I'm not rich, just a responsible adult with a decent job), I'm more concerned about whether VR will deliver on its promises.  So I'm going to wait until I can buy a VR set somewhere that offers returns/refund (Amazon/Best Buy/etc.).  Spending $600-800 on an amazing piece of hardware is a great deal, but spending that on overhyped junk isn't, so I'm gonna wait for a safety net.

  • ThumbtackJThumbtackJ Member UncommonPosts: 669
    Quizzical said:
    What makes you think they're so cheap to build that they could be sold profitably at only $300 each?

    When people were looking at the Oculus Rift dev kit, people said stuff like, oh sure, it's not a good experience, but the final product will have massively better specs.  What do you think happens to the price tag when you want to give it massively better specs?

    One of the critical points about VR is that a low resolution, high latency, cheaper version isn't just an inferior version of a higher quality VR headset.  The cheap version would be something that basically doesn't even work for a lot of people.
    Also, it's new piece of technology. Everything is pricey when it's new. 

    In 1997, DVD players costed almost a grand, by 2000 they were ~$100, and then by 2003 they could be had for $50 or less. 

    So I imagine, in 3-6 years, your average VR device could probably be had for ~$300 or less. 
  • fodell54fodell54 Member RarePosts: 865
    Quizzical said:
    What makes you think they're so cheap to build that they could be sold profitably at only $300 each?

    When people were looking at the Oculus Rift dev kit, people said stuff like, oh sure, it's not a good experience, but the final product will have massively better specs.  What do you think happens to the price tag when you want to give it massively better specs?

    One of the critical points about VR is that a low resolution, high latency, cheaper version isn't just an inferior version of a higher quality VR headset.  The cheap version would be something that basically doesn't even work for a lot of people.
    Let's be honest here nothing that you buy cost the company anything close to what you pay for it retail. Back when I used to work in business to business sales. We had products that would have a margin of anywhere from 50%- 80% mark up. That pretty much applies to everything that you buy. These fucking things probably cost between $80-$100 bucks to produce in china.

    You want something to compare it to google how much it cost to make that $600 smart phone you're carrying around.
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    edited February 2016
    Quizzical said:
    What makes you think they're so cheap to build that they could be sold profitably at only $300 each?

    When people were looking at the Oculus Rift dev kit, people said stuff like, oh sure, it's not a good experience, but the final product will have massively better specs.  What do you think happens to the price tag when you want to give it massively better specs?

    One of the critical points about VR is that a low resolution, high latency, cheaper version isn't just an inferior version of a higher quality VR headset.  The cheap version would be something that basically doesn't even work for a lot of people.
    Also, it's new piece of technology. Everything is pricey when it's new. 

    In 1997, DVD players costed almost a grand, by 2000 they were ~$100, and then by 2003 they could be had for $50 or less. 

    So I imagine, in 3-6 years, your average VR device could probably be had for ~$300 or less. 
    Not only that, but DVD players cost a grand in 1997 because they knew that early adopters would pay a grand for them, not because they cost a grand to manufacture.

    Once you set up your manufacturing chain, it's done, it's set up.  You build the last one of a model like you built the first one. An LG G4 phone built last year is built on the same exact machinery with the same exact components as the last one that will roll off of the same production line.  The cost between the two when you walk into the store will be drastically different.

    Products only get cheaper over time as sales fall off so they start bringing the prices closer and closer to what the manufacturing costs are.

    Honestly these prices are shooting for the early adoptars, once they bilk them for their flashy egomoney then the prices will take a steep plunge.
    Post edited by Vaross on
  • Gaming.Rocks2Gaming.Rocks2 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    I always thought since Steam is involved with this one they are going to break the price to sell Steam exclusive VR games. At least Sony is going to be like this - yeah I am sure I've got my sources wink wink. 
    Gaming Rocks next gen. community for last gen. gamers launching soon. 
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,499
    edited February 2016
    H0urg1ass said:
    Quizzical said:
    What makes you think they're so cheap to build that they could be sold profitably at only $300 each?

    When people were looking at the Oculus Rift dev kit, people said stuff like, oh sure, it's not a good experience, but the final product will have massively better specs.  What do you think happens to the price tag when you want to give it massively better specs?

    One of the critical points about VR is that a low resolution, high latency, cheaper version isn't just an inferior version of a higher quality VR headset.  The cheap version would be something that basically doesn't even work for a lot of people.
    Also, it's new piece of technology. Everything is pricey when it's new. 

    In 1997, DVD players costed almost a grand, by 2000 they were ~$100, and then by 2003 they could be had for $50 or less. 

    So I imagine, in 3-6 years, your average VR device could probably be had for ~$300 or less. 
    Not only that, but DVD players cost a grand in 1997 because they knew that early adopters would pay a grand for them, not because they cost a grand to manufacture.

    Once you set up your manufacturing chain, it's done, it's set up.  You build the last one of a model like you built the first one. An LG G4 phone built last year is built on the same exact machinery with the same exact components as the last one that will roll off of the same production line.  The cost between the two when you walk into the store will be drastically different.

    Products only get cheaper over time as sales fall off so they start bringing the prices closer and closer to what the manufacturing costs are.

    Honestly these prices are shooting for the early adoptars, once they bilk them for their flashy egomoney then the prices will take a steep plunge.
    Why then are they more expensive than the Oculus Rift dev kits were?

    I do expect prices to drop some as time passes, but not as sharply as some others here seem to.  Monitors don't scale with Moore's Law.
    Post edited by Vaross on
  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,796
    Wait for when Oculus Rift controllers come then the cost be about the same. But I was thinking that the HTC VR cost around $1000 was alot cheaper then I was thinking.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    True, once the manufacturing process is set up, the units are pretty cheap to make.

    But there's the cost of setting that up, plus the cost of R&D that had to go into that product before you could even start up the manufacturing. And the real kicker, you have no idea how many you are going to sell, which is really what sets the price.

    If VR really is everything @SEANMCAD thinks it will be, I admit, I'd have no problem coughing up money for it. I've paid as much or more for some of the stuff I have that's strictly entertainment. But I also realize I'm pretty fortunate to be able to do so, the prices will drop ~if~ it catches on, and the succeeding generations will be higher quality than the current generation. You just have to get that virtuous cycle kickstarted. 

    But I don't think VR will be all that it's been made out to be, at least not yet. I don't know if it has what it takes to kickstart that cycle just yet.

    Sure, DVD players were expensive when they first started. So were laserdiscs. For every one idea that makes it, there are several didn't.
  • Xeno.phonXeno.phon Member UncommonPosts: 350
    edited February 2016
    Are we being asked to pay the entirety of the software development and assembly line setup back within the first year or something? I find it very hard to believe the hardware itself comes anywhere close to this cost seeing as the glasses are basically just a Raspberry Pi with 1inch OLED screens and motion sensors.

    This is prohibitively priced and I am just not following why the industry chose to make it this way other than to recoup losses on software dev asap.
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    edited February 2016
    Ridelynn said:
    If VR really is everything @SEANMCAD thinks it will be, I admit, I'd have no problem coughing up money for it. I've paid as much or more for some of the stuff I have that's strictly entertainment. But I also realize I'm pretty fortunate to be able to do so, the prices will drop ~if~ it catches on, and the succeeding generations will be higher quality than the current generation. You just have to get that virtuous cycle kickstarted. 
    But if it really is everything that Sean thinks it is, then you won't have to pay these hilarious early adoptar prices.  If it sells like hotcakes, then the price will come down within six months to a year.

    It will only stay at these prices if they don't sell like crazy... in which case you won't need a pair cause game developers don't develop games around hardware that no one is buying.
    Post edited by Vaross on
  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,796
    edited February 2016
    Xeno.phon said:
    Are we being asked to pay the entirety of the software development and assembly line setup back within the first year or something? I find it very hard to believe the hardware itself comes anywhere close to this cost seeing as the glasses are basically just a Raspberry Pi with 1inch OLED screens and motion sensors.

    This is prohibitively priced and I am just not following why the industry chose to make it this way other than to recoup losses on software dev asap.
    High resolution screen is most of the cost, It's just something can't go out and buy it anywhere that I think why costing so much and the R&D cost.

  • KilrainKilrain Member RarePosts: 1,185
    Quizzical said:
    What makes you think they're so cheap to build that they could be sold profitably at only $300 each?

    When people were looking at the Oculus Rift dev kit, people said stuff like, oh sure, it's not a good experience, but the final product will have massively better specs.  What do you think happens to the price tag when you want to give it massively better specs?

    One of the critical points about VR is that a low resolution, high latency, cheaper version isn't just an inferior version of a higher quality VR headset.  The cheap version would be something that basically doesn't even work for a lot of people.
    They most likely could sell it for $300 if we were only talking parts. There are other continuous factors like labor that need to be thought about, but the biggest reason for such high cost at the start is recovering past expenses like R&D.

    In short, the main reason products cost so much at the beginning is to attempt to recover some of what was already spent in trying to get the product out the door.

    If the demand is still high enough and the profits are in sight then you will see a decline in price to increase sales.
  • PrecusorPrecusor Member UncommonPosts: 3,589
    edited February 2016
    How do they expect VR to pick up when there's going to be maybe 100k users?


  • shukoladeshukolade Member UncommonPosts: 113
    Half of the guys complaining here run around with their 900$ iPhones in their pockets but go wild when there's something NEW and truly AMAZING wich might seem a little bit overpriced for the time being.
    Idiots.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited February 2016
    Kilrain said:
    They most likely could sell it for $300 if we were only talking parts. There are other continuous factors like labor that need to be thought about, but the biggest reason for such high cost at the start is recovering past expenses like R&D.

    In short, the main reason products cost so much at the beginning is to attempt to recover some of what was already spent in trying to get the product out the door.

    If the demand is still high enough and the profits are in sight then you will see a decline in price to increase sales.
    It is the other way round, high demand makes the price go up, not low. Lowering price when demand is high means lost money... 


    The reasoning behind high start up price is simple: It is easier to drop the price to meet the demand than it is to lose money because your price is set too low.

  • Leon1eLeon1e Member UncommonPosts: 791
    edited February 2016
    Quizzical said:
    What makes you think they're so cheap to build that they could be sold profitably at only $300 each?

    When people were looking at the Oculus Rift dev kit, people said stuff like, oh sure, it's not a good experience, but the final product will have massively better specs.  What do you think happens to the price tag when you want to give it massively better specs?

    One of the critical points about VR is that a low resolution, high latency, cheaper version isn't just an inferior version of a higher quality VR headset.  The cheap version would be something that basically doesn't even work for a lot of people.
    Because they use tech found in your average smartphone. The average smartphone costs 600$ at best and yeah ... it can do a lot more. 

    And we already know that they don't really cost 600$ to make. 

    VR is never going to make a foothold because of how ridiculously expensive it is. 800$ costs as much as a mid-to-high level gaming rig. I'm sorry but i'd rather throw that cash into having a better rig than getting nauseated by these headsets. 

    Funny enough, because of the high price not many would by them. If they were 200$ to 300$ a lot more folks would be lining up to buy them and they might become an actual thing.

    I mean sure, go ahead and buy and enjoy it, but to many of us, April 1st, 2016 will be the beginning of the end of the VR. 

    Let's not forget, there will be a new model next year. And the year after that and so on. This is such a waste of money.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited February 2016
    Leon1e said:
    Funny enough, because of the high price not many would by them. If they were 200$ to 300$ a lot more folks would be lining up to buy them and they might become an actual thing.
    ...and if they were $1, even more folks would be lining up to buy them.


    You are not making any point nor sense.
  • KhaoslightKhaoslight Member UncommonPosts: 36
    edited February 2016
    Whether you go with Oculus or HTC version of VR and pay the hefty price tag at release or even wait till the price falls a bit, Most or half will pay even more to upgrade to the min/max specs.


    \Info from Oculus:/

    • Video Card: NVIDIA GTX 970 / AMD 290 equivalent or greater
    • CPU: Intel i5-6400 / i5-4590 equivalent or greater
    • Memory: 8GB+ RAM
    • Video Output: free HDMI 1.3 output
    • USB Ports: 3x USB 3.0 ports plus 1x USB 2.0 port
    • OS: Windows 7 64 bit, Windows 8.1 64 bit, or Windows 10 64 bit
    If your CPU falls short and is overclockable, overclock it to the performance of i5-4590.
    Note: Unfortunately there are no consumer AMD CPUs that meet the recommended spec, due to the weak per-thread performance. If you have an AMD CPU, you will need to upgrade your motherboard and CPU to an Intel i5-6400 or above.


    The GTX 780 Ti should meet the recommended spec, however any AMD cards predating the R9 290 do not.
    Standard SLI does not work in VR, and cannot be used for Rift content. Tho Nvidia and Amd are working on VR SLI/Crossfire.


    Linux/Mac support? No, not yet.

    Laptops? No. (exception: Laptop with a desktop GTX 980)


    On the raw rendering costs: a traditional 1080p game at 60Hz requires 124 million shaded pixels per second. In contrast, the Rift runs at 2160×1200 at 90Hz split over dual displays, consuming 233 million pixels per second. At the default eye-target scale, the Rift’s rendering requirements go much higher: around 400 million shaded pixels per second. This means that by raw rendering costs alone, a VR game will require approximately 3x the GPU power of 1080p rendering.

    Traditionally, PC 3D graphics has had soft real-time requirements, where maintaining 30-60 FPS has been adequate. VR turns graphics into more of a hard real-time problem, as each missed frame is visible. Continuously missing framerate is a jarring, uncomfortable experience. As a result, GPU headroom becomes critical in absorbing unexpected system or content performance potholes so the requirements for VR are far more strict.

    If you do not want to ever purchase & use the Touch controllers, then you only strictly require 2x USB 3.0 (for the Rift and constellation sensor) and 1x USB 2.0 (for the gamepad).

    \end./


    Average gamer will need a pretty beefy upgrade to their rig esp, if you have an AMD CPU and your GPU is outdated by a year or two compared to todays GPU.

    Combine the initial cost of VR and upgrade to your rig, you could easily fork out over 1000$ for VR even if cost for the unit dropped to 500$

    Is it worth it? Up to you!






  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,503
    edited February 2016
    H0urg1ass said:
    Quizzical said:
     or less. 


    Honestly these prices are shooting for the early adoptards, once they bilk them for their flashy egomoney then the prices will take a steep plunge.
    [mod edit]

    Back on topic, and just as important Generation 1 electronics usually suck.  I will be waiting until at least gen 2 or 3 before I even starting looking at VR.   As of right now it just does not look that appealing.
    Post edited by Vaross on

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

Sign In or Register to comment.