Rob Irving (Former Lead Designer of Star Citizen) interview - admits Escapists article is true

DKLond · March 2016

dsmart said:

Distopia said:

Brenics said:

All true yet the whiteknights can't see it. Any logical person should see the problems with CR's business practices.

Personally I believe IF Roberts was on the up and up he would be right in the middle of this arguing and showing how SC isn't a scam.

Maybe we should start a new KS to get funds to have a debate between DS and CR. I know i would pay for that. I bet DS would be all for it. :-D

No dev in their right mind would get involved in these kinds of conversations, up and up or not. Far too many would view it as unprofessional, those who actually want to sell games stay far away from things like this. IF the environment was similar to CU I could see that being a possibility, but as it is? Nah

I'll give DS this... he doesn't care about such things nor perceptions of him that result from it. That's admirable to some extent, not exactly good for his gaming portfolio though..

You DID read the diatribe that Chris wrote about me, The Escapist writer and others, right? Do you have ANY idea how damaging to him AND the project that was?

OK, so he can spend that much time writing up a kindergarten grade diatribe, while defending the game and sales practice in media fluff pieces, while LYING through his teeth - and that's somehow OK. Got it.

You guys aren't even trying anymore.

Yes, the game is damaged beyond repair. That's why they're above 110 million dollars now - and they're showing constant growth and progress.

Have you prepared yourself for the possibility that Star Citizen is released to critical acclaim?

You do know how that will look for you, don't you?

dsmart · March 2016

DKLond said:

dsmart said:

DKLond said:

Oh, so you're using the same list of studios as a list of companies like that other poster did.

Again, studio is one word. Company is another word. They are separate words for a reason.

How about answering my question instead.

What COMPANIES have been funded with SC funds that are NOT a part of Star Citizen development in any way?

Wrong. Again.

I was the one who dug up and sourced ALL those companies during research for me blogs.

That list appeared in my blog before the world even put it all together and realized how many entities were involved.

That was all me.

I know, facts are not your thing; but do try to keep up.

Oh, you made a list of names? That's pretty amazing.

However, where's you evidence that they're not related to SC development - and that they're separate companies? Where's your evidence about how they were created - and what funds were used, if any?

You know, stuff that actually matters.

Wait! You challenged the veracity of the comment about 14 companies. Then when a list was presented, you do this backflip "oh, you made a list of names?". wow. just wow.

Which part of "NONE of these existed BEFORE the Star Citizen project" eluded you?

The only stuff that matters is that your circular arguments show the complete lack of integrity that you continue to show in these discussions. Your attempts at obfuscating facts and mingling them with fiction and hyperbole, should be reserved for the fools who can't think for themselves or who don't have a clue as to the FACTS surrounding this project.

ps: I know that, like Erilion and other nut cases, I should block you, but p0wning you is way too much fun.

DKLond · March 2016

dsmart said:

DKLond said:

dsmart said:

DKLond said:

Oh, so you're using the same list of studios as a list of companies like that other poster did.

Again, studio is one word. Company is another word. They are separate words for a reason.

How about answering my question instead.

What COMPANIES have been funded with SC funds that are NOT a part of Star Citizen development in any way?

Wrong. Again.

I was the one who dug up and sourced ALL those companies during research for me blogs.

That list appeared in my blog before the world even put it all together and realized how many entities were involved.

That was all me.

I know, facts are not your thing; but do try to keep up.

Oh, you made a list of names? That's pretty amazing.

However, where's you evidence that they're not related to SC development - and that they're separate companies? Where's your evidence about how they were created - and what funds were used, if any?

You know, stuff that actually matters.

Wait! You challenged the veracity of the comment about 14 companies. Then when a list was presented, you do this backflip "oh, you made a list of names?". wow. just wow.

Which part of "NONE of these existed BEFORE the Star Citizen project" eluded you?

The only stuff that matters is that your circular arguments show the complete lack of integrity that you continue to show in these discussions. Your attempts at obfuscating facts and mingling them with fiction and hyperbole, should be reserved for the fools who can't think for themselves or who don't have a clue as to the FACTS surrounding this project.

ps: I know that, like Erilion and other nut cases, I should block you, but p0wning you is way too much fun.

No, I've challenged nothing of the kind.

I've asked the same question over and over - waiting for someone who's able to read - or willing to read - to answer it.

But it sure is a nice list that has nothing to do with my original question

dsmart · March 2016

Brenics said:

DKLond said:

rodarin said:

DKLond said:

vorpal28 said:

There should be no need for 14 differant studioes to produce 1 game surely?

Did you read what I said about their reasons?

There's no need to have 300+ people either. It just makes it faster and more efficient.

There's probably no need to have more than 10 ships - it just makes it more fun and interesting.

See that pattern?

It's not about what's NEEDED - it's about what they think will make for the best game in the best way - given their options and limitations.

I'm sure you have more experience with ambitious development like this, though, right?

Re read that.

This game was supposed to be released when again?

And as far as 'efficiency' how many times have they changed an re-changed, and changed them again? Or scrapped complete portions of the original proposal?

So if they cant even make stuff they originally planned (with no upgraded replacement just a complete cancellation) is that efficient? faster?

More money more problems more people more problems.

I know the white knights like to spin everything in a positive manner, but that reason is as ludicrous as it gets especially watching this fiasco play out over the past 4 years.

Also as an aside can anyone name any of these 'top' people who make up this 300 person menagerie? If theyre the top surely some of them are fairly well known.

This thread is about a guy who was fairly well known and even more well known now. Ironically he left, as did a few others who are most definitely better well known than the guys whom these locations were set up for to keep them happy. (White knights reasons not mine)

Also the final sentence says it all..its 'ambitious' therefore its justified for them to mismanage inappropriate millions of dollars that arent necessary to actually MAKE and DELIVER the game. (nonsensical reasons/excuses aside).

Just look at it this way he is spending MORE in a MONTH for employees than he thought it would take to make the entire game back when he stated all this. If people think that is justified then there is no help for them. Ambitious or not.

In a 'normal' world he would have made and delivered that original game, and THEN with that 'proof' of ability he would have then started the newer larger scope game. But due to stupidity of people and complete lack of reason and self control he was allowed to skip that step and rake in tens of millions of dollars with jpegs and a horrendously bad tech demo. Not his fault, the fault of people who sent and continue to send him money. The best thing is the sub fee for developmental news. Thats aweome 99% of gamers wont pay a sub fee for a game that can actually be played yet thousands (apparently) pay a sub fee to get news on a game that doesnt exist and probably isnt close to existing. As a sane person this whole thing boggles my mind. But then again when I look at the people who are left as presidential candidates and realize one of them will actually become president it isnt all that surprising.

What game? The original game that had a much, much smaller budget? I'm not sure why that's relevant to the discussion.

I'm talking about the current game and the current budget.

Once again, RSI asked the backers how to proceed with funding - and the VAST majority agreed to keep it going and expand the game.

But you're right, in a normal publisher oriented world - he would have delivered a much lesser game sooner - probably with a lot of broken promises, like always happens.

Instead, we just might get a game that brings real evolution - if not revolution - to the gaming scene, and we have to wait a few more years. That's terrible.

In any case, that takes a lot of work and a lot of people doing that work.

It's not rocket science.

If it fails, then obviously it was a bad idea. What I don't really understand from non-DS people is that some seem to actually WANT it to fail.

I mean, is it better to feel good about the failure of something big than to potentially get a fantastic game? I really don't get that.

To each his own, however.

Can you show me the link to where people asked CR to keep asking for money so they could make the game bigger? People keep saying stuff like that but never show any polls or heck even emails sent out to backers asking them that!

It doesn't exist because they're making shit up as usual.

That whole premise originated from Chris, in which he is using the fact that people kept giving him money with each new stretch goal, as confirmation that people WANTED him to make a bigger game.

YET, 5 years + $110M later, less than 10% of THOSE STRETCH GOALS has yet to be delivered.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

Distopia · March 2016

dsmart said:

but p0wning you is way too much fun.

ROFl... do you think it's still 1999? Being a wise ass on the net died with Jncos..

SEANMCAD · March 2016

dsmart said:

It doesn't exist because they're making shit up as usual.

That whole premise originated from Chris, in which he is using the fact that people kept giving him money with each new stretch goal, as confirmation that people WANTED him to make a bigger game.

YET, 5 years + $110M later, less than 10% of THOSE STRETCH GOALS has yet to be delivered.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

???

'fans wanting something'
!=
'company able to deliever'

I think the latter and the former is fairly obvious in of itself why are you trying to change it?

DKLond · March 2016

I'm pretty sure he's still stuck in the fantasy that BC3000AD delivered on his promises.

How long was that in development by the way?

I still remember the ads...

Oh boy, the irony.

I was definitely "pwned" back in 1997 when I learned that Derek Smart lies his way to profit - and he's still trying to do it.

laserit · March 2016

I wonder if the Shyster's http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/440506/star-citizen-death-of-a-salesman-mmorpg/p6 game will be ready before Star Citizen?

Another year another dollar, eh Derek?

Arglebargle · March 2016

rodarin said:

Brenics said:

DKLond said:

What game? The original game that had a much, much smaller budget? I'm not sure why that's relevant to the discussion.

I'm talking about the current game and the current budget.

Once again, RSI asked the backers how to proceed with funding - and the VAST majority agreed to keep it going and expand the game.

But you're right, in a normal publisher oriented world - he would have delivered a much lesser game sooner - probably with a lot of broken promises, like always happens.

Instead, we just might get a game that brings real evolution - if not revolution - to the gaming scene, and we have to wait a few more years. That's terrible.

In any case, that takes a lot of work and a lot of people doing that work.

It's not rocket science.

If it fails, then obviously it was a bad idea. What I don't really understand from non-DS people is that some seem to actually WANT it to fail.

I mean, is it better to feel good about the failure of something big than to potentially get a fantastic game? I really don't get that.

To each his own, however.

Can you show me the link to where people asked CR to keep asking for money so they could make the game bigger? People keep saying stuff like that but never show any polls or heck even emails sent out to backers asking them that!

I dont like to quote everything but theyre related.

But yeah when was this poll taken? How much has been raised since then? How many new sjip jpegs have been created? How many of those have been sold? How many months of 'developmental news' subs have been sold. How many thought the Star Marine would be eliminated when (if) they 'asked' for expansion? How many believed CR when he said feature creep and expanding the game wouldnt delay it? Was that the main reason people asked for expansion (assuming they did).

A lot of questions can be asked (and none can be answered) about that simple statement.

But it also gets to the heart of this whole thing. I do remember CR saying that more money and more stretch goals WOULD NOT delay the game, we knew then and we definitely know now that was lie. Be it logistical impossibility or outright deception. So he sold a bill of good he should have known (f he were competent) couldnt be realized. I touched on that aspect years ago. That he is either a liar or an idiot, neither of which are good. And nothing from then (around Oct 2012) and now has changed my opinion on that, and if anything more empirical 'evidence' proves the latter.

But thats why cons work, for multiple reasons actually. Generally the money taken isnt life changing so people just chalk it up to a 'life experience', and it is far more easier to con someone than to make them believe they were conned. Like I said CR and family could disappear to a non extradition country tomorrow (with suitcases full of cash and it fluttering around like one of those old cartoons) everything could be shut down and all the links could be dead the tech demo could be disconnected and 95% of the 'backers' would think it was because they were getting away from all the negativity and making the final push to release the game.

While it wont be that extreme you can be damned sure these guys have lived a much higher lifestyle than they would have the past few years and will for the foreseeable future. if people that gave them money thinks thats OK then there isnt much else to be said I guess.

While I wouldn't put it past CR to be manipulating the money pretty seriously (After all, he's a genius! He deserves it!), he probably does want to make the best dam space game eveh! He just can't see that the reason he's never managed it before is staring at him in the mirror.

I've talked to a friend who worked extensively with CR at Origin: He calls Roberts a narcissistic egomaniac, and said that he believes everything he says, regardless of its relationship to reality. A lot of folks buy in to his palaver, and think that his name on the box meant he did way more in those games than is actually the case. Remember that Milli Vanilli was the name on the CD. And Vanilla Ice sold a lot too.

Roberts has never released a game without having someone over him to rein in his excesses. Gonna be a long and bumpy ride, and the destination won't resemble the brochure.

DKLond · March 2016

Oh, the good old I know a friend who knows a friend

Amazingly convincing statement.

FlyByKnight · March 2016

When is Star Citizen slated to officially launch? 2017 - 2018?

I just want to have a general idea of how many more times "Derek Smart" and the word "anti-fan" will be invoked by the cult.

Talonsin · March 2016

Distopia said:

Very few if anyone have argued such a thing... weren't you just flipping out at me for putting words in mouths last night? Yet here you are misrepresenting multiple people in one fell swoop.

WHAT? Did you miss the 85+ page thread when the article came out where the fans posted over and over again that the article was all lies? Heck, even you said you didnt know what to believe when the article came out and now you are saying "Very few if anyone have argued such a thing"? WTF

Source: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/440162/star-citizen-employees-speak-out-on-project-woes/p1

This is just from the first page of the 85+ thread:

Hateful - Yeah, BS. No identified sources this is just baseless accusations at this point. Until a credible witness, ie an actual named employee (or former employee) comes forward this is all BS.

Distopia - As always I don't know what to believe, hence why I find a wait and see approach to be best. Who knows...

Laserit - You can believe everything you read in the media.

DKLond - without named sources, it's pretty useless.

PanserBjorn39 - Fake journalism. A bunch of rumors and hearsay. Meh.

The difference is that I post what I believe is the true through sources while you use broad generalizations to make your arguments. I am not putting words in your mouth, I am showing you the FACTS. Maybe you should start doing the same instead of making crap up and making broad generalizations that have no bearing on the subject.

I got news for you guys. If the proof of Derek being a phony is that he did not sue then the proof the escapist article was true is that Chris did not sue. You can not have it both ways.

DKLond · March 2016

Talonsin said:

Distopia said:

Very few if anyone have argued such a thing... weren't you just flipping out at me for putting words in mouths last night? Yet here you are misrepresenting multiple people in one fell swoop.

WHAT? Did you miss the 85+ page thread when the article came out where the fans posted over and over again that the article was all lies? Heck, even you said you didnt know what to believe when the article came out and now you are saying "Very few if anyone have argued such a thing"? WTF

Source: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/440162/star-citizen-employees-speak-out-on-project-woes/p1

This is just from the first page of the 85+ thread:

Hateful - Yeah, BS. No identified sources this is just baseless accusations at this point. Until a credible witness, ie an actual named employee (or former employee) comes forward this is all BS.

Distopia - As always I don't know what to believe, hence why I find a wait and see approach to be best. Who knows...

Laserit - You can believe everything you read in the media.

DKLond - without named sources, it's pretty useless.

PanserBjorn39 - Fake journalism. A bunch of rumors and hearsay. Meh.

The difference is that I post what I believe is the true through sources while you use broad generalizations to make your arguments. I am not putting words in your mouth, I am showing you the FACTS. Maybe you should start doing the same instead of making crap up and making broad generalizations that have no bearing on the subject.
I got news for you guys. If the proof of Derek being a phony is that he did not sue then the proof the escapist article was true is that Chris did not sue. You can not have it both ways.

Ehm, you just supported our claim. None of those quotes say the article is all lies. They're saying it's not proven and it's unknowable. UNTIL there's proof, it's useless.

There's a very big difference.

It's pretty important to understand words if you're going to use them.

As for Derek being a phony - here is the evidence, once again:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/3rs5vq/compiling_a_list_of_predictions_and_allegations/

Distopia · March 2016

Talonsin said:

Distopia said:

Very few if anyone have argued such a thing... weren't you just flipping out at me for putting words in mouths last night? Yet here you are misrepresenting multiple people in one fell swoop.

WHAT? Did you miss the 85+ page thread when the article came out where the fans posted over and over again that the article was all lies? Heck, even you said you didnt know what to believe when the article came out and now you are saying "Very few if anyone have argued such a thing"? WTF

Source: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/440162/star-citizen-employees-speak-out-on-project-woes/p1

This is just from the first page of the 85+ thread:

Hateful - Yeah, BS. No identified sources this is just baseless accusations at this point. Until a credible witness, ie an actual named employee (or former employee) comes forward this is all BS.

Distopia - As always I don't know what to believe, hence why I find a wait and see approach to be best. Who knows...

Laserit - You can believe everything you read in the media.

DKLond - without named sources, it's pretty useless.

PanserBjorn39 - Fake journalism. A bunch of rumors and hearsay. Meh.

The difference is that I post what I believe is the true through sources while you use broad generalizations to make your arguments. I am not putting words in your mouth, I am showing you the FACTS. Maybe you should start doing the same instead of making crap up and making broad generalizations that have no bearing on the subject.
I got news for you guys. If the proof of Derek being a phony is that he did not sue then the proof the escapist article was true is that Chris did not sue. You can not have it both ways.

None of those you pasted said it was lies, useless yes, all lies no... Hearsay yes, all lies no, Don't know what to believe, yes, all lies no.. Baseless accusation at this point, yes, all lies no...

Why would you present any of those as proof of people claiming it's all lies?

Eh as for your news... did you read my last sentence? I said both were more or less full of crap as far as the lawsuits go.

BTW I was referring to this topic.... not a conversation from what.. months ago?

Also I'm one person why refer to me as "you guys"?

Brenics · March 2016

DKLond said:

rodarin said:

Brenics said:

DKLond said:

What game? The original game that had a much, much smaller budget? I'm not sure why that's relevant to the discussion.

I'm talking about the current game and the current budget.

Once again, RSI asked the backers how to proceed with funding - and the VAST majority agreed to keep it going and expand the game.

But you're right, in a normal publisher oriented world - he would have delivered a much lesser game sooner - probably with a lot of broken promises, like always happens.

Instead, we just might get a game that brings real evolution - if not revolution - to the gaming scene, and we have to wait a few more years. That's terrible.

In any case, that takes a lot of work and a lot of people doing that work.

It's not rocket science.

If it fails, then obviously it was a bad idea. What I don't really understand from non-DS people is that some seem to actually WANT it to fail.

I mean, is it better to feel good about the failure of something big than to potentially get a fantastic game? I really don't get that.

To each his own, however.

Can you show me the link to where people asked CR to keep asking for money so they could make the game bigger? People keep saying stuff like that but never show any polls or heck even emails sent out to backers asking them that!

I dont like to quote everything but theyre related.

But yeah when was this poll taken? How much has been raised since then? How many new sjip jpegs have been created? How many of those have been sold? How many months of 'developmental news' subs have been sold. How many thought the Star Marine would be eliminated when (if) they 'asked' for expansion? How many believed CR when he said feature creep and expanding the game wouldnt delay it? Was that the main reason people asked for expansion (assuming they did).

A lot of questions can be asked (and none can be answered) about that simple statement.

But it also gets to the heart of this whole thing. I do remember CR saying that more money and more stretch goals WOULD NOT delay the game, we knew then and we definitely know now that was lie. Be it logistical impossibility or outright deception. So he sold a bill of good he should have known (f he were competent) couldnt be realized. I touched on that aspect years ago. That he is either a liar or an idiot, neither of which are good. And nothing from then (around Oct 2012) and now has changed my opinion on that, and if anything more empirical 'evidence' proves the latter.

But thats why cons work, for multiple reasons actually. Generally the money taken isnt life changing so people just chalk it up to a 'life experience', and it is far more easier to con someone than to make them believe they were conned. Like I said CR and family could disappear to a non extradition country tomorrow (with suitcases full of cash and it fluttering around like one of those old cartoons) everything could be shut down and all the links could be dead the tech demo could be disconnected and 95% of the 'backers' would think it was because they were getting away from all the negativity and making the final push to release the game.

While it wont be that extreme you can be damned sure these guys have lived a much higher lifestyle than they would have the past few years and will for the foreseeable future. if people that gave them money thinks thats OK then there isnt much else to be said I guess.

When did CR say that expanding the scope of the game would not mean delays?

I'd be interested to see that.

ROFL, I can't believe you actually asked that. That is known by everyone he said that. Heck you said you voted on a poll (you refuse to show) yet say you never seen or heard CR say that. Go do research am sure you will find it, but please post that poll no one has seen.

DKLond · March 2016

Brenics said:

DKLond said:

rodarin said:

Brenics said:

DKLond said:

What game? The original game that had a much, much smaller budget? I'm not sure why that's relevant to the discussion.

I'm talking about the current game and the current budget.

Once again, RSI asked the backers how to proceed with funding - and the VAST majority agreed to keep it going and expand the game.

But you're right, in a normal publisher oriented world - he would have delivered a much lesser game sooner - probably with a lot of broken promises, like always happens.

Instead, we just might get a game that brings real evolution - if not revolution - to the gaming scene, and we have to wait a few more years. That's terrible.

In any case, that takes a lot of work and a lot of people doing that work.

It's not rocket science.

If it fails, then obviously it was a bad idea. What I don't really understand from non-DS people is that some seem to actually WANT it to fail.

I mean, is it better to feel good about the failure of something big than to potentially get a fantastic game? I really don't get that.

To each his own, however.

Can you show me the link to where people asked CR to keep asking for money so they could make the game bigger? People keep saying stuff like that but never show any polls or heck even emails sent out to backers asking them that!

I dont like to quote everything but theyre related.

But yeah when was this poll taken? How much has been raised since then? How many new sjip jpegs have been created? How many of those have been sold? How many months of 'developmental news' subs have been sold. How many thought the Star Marine would be eliminated when (if) they 'asked' for expansion? How many believed CR when he said feature creep and expanding the game wouldnt delay it? Was that the main reason people asked for expansion (assuming they did).

A lot of questions can be asked (and none can be answered) about that simple statement.

But it also gets to the heart of this whole thing. I do remember CR saying that more money and more stretch goals WOULD NOT delay the game, we knew then and we definitely know now that was lie. Be it logistical impossibility or outright deception. So he sold a bill of good he should have known (f he were competent) couldnt be realized. I touched on that aspect years ago. That he is either a liar or an idiot, neither of which are good. And nothing from then (around Oct 2012) and now has changed my opinion on that, and if anything more empirical 'evidence' proves the latter.

But thats why cons work, for multiple reasons actually. Generally the money taken isnt life changing so people just chalk it up to a 'life experience', and it is far more easier to con someone than to make them believe they were conned. Like I said CR and family could disappear to a non extradition country tomorrow (with suitcases full of cash and it fluttering around like one of those old cartoons) everything could be shut down and all the links could be dead the tech demo could be disconnected and 95% of the 'backers' would think it was because they were getting away from all the negativity and making the final push to release the game.

While it wont be that extreme you can be damned sure these guys have lived a much higher lifestyle than they would have the past few years and will for the foreseeable future. if people that gave them money thinks thats OK then there isnt much else to be said I guess.

When did CR say that expanding the scope of the game would not mean delays?

I'd be interested to see that.

ROFL, I can't believe you actually asked that. That is known by everyone he said that. Heck you said you voted on a poll (you refuse to show) yet say you never seen or heard CR say that. Go do research am sure you will find it, but please post that poll no one has seen.

Thought so, thanks

dsmart · March 2016

DKLond said:

rodarin said:

Brenics said:

DKLond said:

What game? The original game that had a much, much smaller budget? I'm not sure why that's relevant to the discussion.

I'm talking about the current game and the current budget.

Once again, RSI asked the backers how to proceed with funding - and the VAST majority agreed to keep it going and expand the game.

But you're right, in a normal publisher oriented world - he would have delivered a much lesser game sooner - probably with a lot of broken promises, like always happens.

Instead, we just might get a game that brings real evolution - if not revolution - to the gaming scene, and we have to wait a few more years. That's terrible.

In any case, that takes a lot of work and a lot of people doing that work.

It's not rocket science.

If it fails, then obviously it was a bad idea. What I don't really understand from non-DS people is that some seem to actually WANT it to fail.

I mean, is it better to feel good about the failure of something big than to potentially get a fantastic game? I really don't get that.

To each his own, however.

Can you show me the link to where people asked CR to keep asking for money so they could make the game bigger? People keep saying stuff like that but never show any polls or heck even emails sent out to backers asking them that!

I dont like to quote everything but theyre related.

But yeah when was this poll taken? How much has been raised since then? How many new sjip jpegs have been created? How many of those have been sold? How many months of 'developmental news' subs have been sold. How many thought the Star Marine would be eliminated when (if) they 'asked' for expansion? How many believed CR when he said feature creep and expanding the game wouldnt delay it? Was that the main reason people asked for expansion (assuming they did).

A lot of questions can be asked (and none can be answered) about that simple statement.

But it also gets to the heart of this whole thing. I do remember CR saying that more money and more stretch goals WOULD NOT delay the game, we knew then and we definitely know now that was lie. Be it logistical impossibility or outright deception. So he sold a bill of good he should have known (f he were competent) couldnt be realized. I touched on that aspect years ago. That he is either a liar or an idiot, neither of which are good. And nothing from then (around Oct 2012) and now has changed my opinion on that, and if anything more empirical 'evidence' proves the latter.

But thats why cons work, for multiple reasons actually. Generally the money taken isnt life changing so people just chalk it up to a 'life experience', and it is far more easier to con someone than to make them believe they were conned. Like I said CR and family could disappear to a non extradition country tomorrow (with suitcases full of cash and it fluttering around like one of those old cartoons) everything could be shut down and all the links could be dead the tech demo could be disconnected and 95% of the 'backers' would think it was because they were getting away from all the negativity and making the final push to release the game.

While it wont be that extreme you can be damned sure these guys have lived a much higher lifestyle than they would have the past few years and will for the foreseeable future. if people that gave them money thinks thats OK then there isnt much else to be said I guess.

When did CR say that expanding the scope of the game would not mean delays?

I'd be interested to see that.

Glad you asked. Start here :

https://web.archive.org/web/20121103204818/http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen-faq/

"The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period. We intend to build the game that Chris Roberts described at GDC Online regardless, but without additional funding we are going to have to do it one piece at a time, starting with Squadron 42, rather than as a single larger production. With more funding we can include more ships, systems, unique locations, animations and cinematic sequences. - Chris Roberts"

BONUS POINT #1: you can spot ALL the statements which have now proven - without a doubt - to be BLATANT LIES)

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/21/chris-roberts-addresses-star-citizen-delays-and-feature-creep-concerns.aspx

http://kotaku.com/why-star-citizen-is-taking-so-long-1724835913

http://kotaku.com/star-citizen-designer-addresses-some-backer-concerns-1719333419

EXTRA BONUS:

"There are people out there who are going to tell you that this is all a BAD THING. That it’s ‘feature creep’ and we should make a smaller, less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly or in order to meet artificial deadlines. Now I’ll answer those claims in one word: Bullshit!
Star Citizen matters BECAUSE it is big, because it is a bold dream. It is something everyone else is scared to try. You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before. You’re here and reading this because we are willing to go big, to do the things that terrify publishers. You’ve trusted us with your money so we can build a game, not line our pockets. And we sure as hell didn’t run this campaign so we could put that money in the bank, guarantee ourselves a profit and turn out some flimsy replica of a game I’ve made before. You went all in supporting us and we’ve gone all in making the game. Is Star Citizen today a bigger goal than I imagined in 2012? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not: it’s the whole damn point. - Chris Roberts"

Arglebargle · March 2016

DKLond said:

Oh, the good old I know a friend who knows a friend

Amazingly convincing statement.

Sorry you don't know anyone....

Lived in the Austin area for 40+ years. I know a ton of the old line gamers here. Including a bunch who went on to be computer developers. Since the beginning of the CS Kickstarter, I've talked to 13 who worked with Roberts at Origin. No discussion about CR with 3 of them (too bad, 'cause they worked on the movie, would probably have some informative tales), but the other ten had interesting and uniformly negative things to say, privately, about Roberts. Of the Origin crew, only Robert Garriott was held in worse regard.

Obviously this didn't stop Irving from signing up with SC. But the nature of the development was enough to get him to leave. Like a lot of other top personnel.

It is the internet, so you can dismiss it if you want. But if someone is considering investing in the game, I'd advise waiting til there's actually a game. Now if you are a True Believer, you should go buy more ships, as they're going to need that money to stay afloat. Because the rot starts at the top.

DKLond · March 2016

dsmart said:

DKLond said:

rodarin said:

Brenics said:

DKLond said:

What game? The original game that had a much, much smaller budget? I'm not sure why that's relevant to the discussion.

I'm talking about the current game and the current budget.

Once again, RSI asked the backers how to proceed with funding - and the VAST majority agreed to keep it going and expand the game.

But you're right, in a normal publisher oriented world - he would have delivered a much lesser game sooner - probably with a lot of broken promises, like always happens.

Instead, we just might get a game that brings real evolution - if not revolution - to the gaming scene, and we have to wait a few more years. That's terrible.

In any case, that takes a lot of work and a lot of people doing that work.

It's not rocket science.

If it fails, then obviously it was a bad idea. What I don't really understand from non-DS people is that some seem to actually WANT it to fail.

I mean, is it better to feel good about the failure of something big than to potentially get a fantastic game? I really don't get that.

To each his own, however.

Can you show me the link to where people asked CR to keep asking for money so they could make the game bigger? People keep saying stuff like that but never show any polls or heck even emails sent out to backers asking them that!

I dont like to quote everything but theyre related.

But yeah when was this poll taken? How much has been raised since then? How many new sjip jpegs have been created? How many of those have been sold? How many months of 'developmental news' subs have been sold. How many thought the Star Marine would be eliminated when (if) they 'asked' for expansion? How many believed CR when he said feature creep and expanding the game wouldnt delay it? Was that the main reason people asked for expansion (assuming they did).

A lot of questions can be asked (and none can be answered) about that simple statement.

But it also gets to the heart of this whole thing. I do remember CR saying that more money and more stretch goals WOULD NOT delay the game, we knew then and we definitely know now that was lie. Be it logistical impossibility or outright deception. So he sold a bill of good he should have known (f he were competent) couldnt be realized. I touched on that aspect years ago. That he is either a liar or an idiot, neither of which are good. And nothing from then (around Oct 2012) and now has changed my opinion on that, and if anything more empirical 'evidence' proves the latter.

But thats why cons work, for multiple reasons actually. Generally the money taken isnt life changing so people just chalk it up to a 'life experience', and it is far more easier to con someone than to make them believe they were conned. Like I said CR and family could disappear to a non extradition country tomorrow (with suitcases full of cash and it fluttering around like one of those old cartoons) everything could be shut down and all the links could be dead the tech demo could be disconnected and 95% of the 'backers' would think it was because they were getting away from all the negativity and making the final push to release the game.

While it wont be that extreme you can be damned sure these guys have lived a much higher lifestyle than they would have the past few years and will for the foreseeable future. if people that gave them money thinks thats OK then there isnt much else to be said I guess.

When did CR say that expanding the scope of the game would not mean delays?

I'd be interested to see that.

Glad you asked. Start here :

https://web.archive.org/web/20121103204818/http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen-faq/

"The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period. We intend to build the game that Chris Roberts described at GDC Online regardless, but without additional funding we are going to have to do it one piece at a time, starting with Squadron 42, rather than as a single larger production. With more funding we can include more ships, systems, unique locations, animations and cinematic sequences. - Chris Roberts"

BONUS POINT #1: you can spot ALL the statements which have now proven - without a doubt - to be BLATANT LIES)

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/21/chris-roberts-addresses-star-citizen-delays-and-feature-creep-concerns.aspx

http://kotaku.com/why-star-citizen-is-taking-so-long-1724835913

http://kotaku.com/star-citizen-designer-addresses-some-backer-concerns-1719333419

EXTRA BONUS:

"There are people out there who are going to tell you that this is all a BAD THING. That it’s ‘feature creep’ and we should make a smaller, less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly or in order to meet artificial deadlines. Now I’ll answer those claims in one word: Bullshit!
Star Citizen matters BECAUSE it is big, because it is a bold dream. It is something everyone else is scared to try. You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before. You’re here and reading this because we are willing to go big, to do the things that terrify publishers. You’ve trusted us with your money so we can build a game, not line our pockets. And we sure as hell didn’t run this campaign so we could put that money in the bank, guarantee ourselves a profit and turn out some flimsy replica of a game I’ve made before. You went all in supporting us and we’ve gone all in making the game. Is Star Citizen today a bigger goal than I imagined in 2012? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not: it’s the whole damn point. - Chris Roberts"

Sigh.

Those were the ORIGINAL stretch goals part of the ORIGINAL campaign.

Not the ADDITIONAL stretch goals added AFTER funding grew - as was suggested.

I know you can read, so there must be another reason for your constant failure to understand.

As for the extra bonus, I absolutely agreed with him then - and I still do - as do the majority of supporters.

We WANT them to go big and beyond the original campaign.

Very, very much so.

Kefo · March 2016

dsmart said:

DKLond said:

rodarin said:

Brenics said:

DKLond said:

What game? The original game that had a much, much smaller budget? I'm not sure why that's relevant to the discussion.

I'm talking about the current game and the current budget.

Once again, RSI asked the backers how to proceed with funding - and the VAST majority agreed to keep it going and expand the game.

But you're right, in a normal publisher oriented world - he would have delivered a much lesser game sooner - probably with a lot of broken promises, like always happens.

Instead, we just might get a game that brings real evolution - if not revolution - to the gaming scene, and we have to wait a few more years. That's terrible.

In any case, that takes a lot of work and a lot of people doing that work.

It's not rocket science.

If it fails, then obviously it was a bad idea. What I don't really understand from non-DS people is that some seem to actually WANT it to fail.

I mean, is it better to feel good about the failure of something big than to potentially get a fantastic game? I really don't get that.

To each his own, however.

Can you show me the link to where people asked CR to keep asking for money so they could make the game bigger? People keep saying stuff like that but never show any polls or heck even emails sent out to backers asking them that!

I dont like to quote everything but theyre related.

But yeah when was this poll taken? How much has been raised since then? How many new sjip jpegs have been created? How many of those have been sold? How many months of 'developmental news' subs have been sold. How many thought the Star Marine would be eliminated when (if) they 'asked' for expansion? How many believed CR when he said feature creep and expanding the game wouldnt delay it? Was that the main reason people asked for expansion (assuming they did).

A lot of questions can be asked (and none can be answered) about that simple statement.

But it also gets to the heart of this whole thing. I do remember CR saying that more money and more stretch goals WOULD NOT delay the game, we knew then and we definitely know now that was lie. Be it logistical impossibility or outright deception. So he sold a bill of good he should have known (f he were competent) couldnt be realized. I touched on that aspect years ago. That he is either a liar or an idiot, neither of which are good. And nothing from then (around Oct 2012) and now has changed my opinion on that, and if anything more empirical 'evidence' proves the latter.

But thats why cons work, for multiple reasons actually. Generally the money taken isnt life changing so people just chalk it up to a 'life experience', and it is far more easier to con someone than to make them believe they were conned. Like I said CR and family could disappear to a non extradition country tomorrow (with suitcases full of cash and it fluttering around like one of those old cartoons) everything could be shut down and all the links could be dead the tech demo could be disconnected and 95% of the 'backers' would think it was because they were getting away from all the negativity and making the final push to release the game.

While it wont be that extreme you can be damned sure these guys have lived a much higher lifestyle than they would have the past few years and will for the foreseeable future. if people that gave them money thinks thats OK then there isnt much else to be said I guess.

When did CR say that expanding the scope of the game would not mean delays?

I'd be interested to see that.

Glad you asked. Start here :

https://web.archive.org/web/20121103204818/http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen-faq/

"The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period. We intend to build the game that Chris Roberts described at GDC Online regardless, but without additional funding we are going to have to do it one piece at a time, starting with Squadron 42, rather than as a single larger production. With more funding we can include more ships, systems, unique locations, animations and cinematic sequences. - Chris Roberts"

BONUS POINT #1: you can spot ALL the statements which have now proven - without a doubt - to be BLATANT LIES)

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/21/chris-roberts-addresses-star-citizen-delays-and-feature-creep-concerns.aspx

http://kotaku.com/why-star-citizen-is-taking-so-long-1724835913

http://kotaku.com/star-citizen-designer-addresses-some-backer-concerns-1719333419

EXTRA BONUS:

"There are people out there who are going to tell you that this is all a BAD THING. That it’s ‘feature creep’ and we should make a smaller, less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly or in order to meet artificial deadlines. Now I’ll answer those claims in one word: Bullshit!
Star Citizen matters BECAUSE it is big, because it is a bold dream. It is something everyone else is scared to try. You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before. You’re here and reading this because we are willing to go big, to do the things that terrify publishers. You’ve trusted us with your money so we can build a game, not line our pockets. And we sure as hell didn’t run this campaign so we could put that money in the bank, guarantee ourselves a profit and turn out some flimsy replica of a game I’ve made before. You went all in supporting us and we’ve gone all in making the game. Is Star Citizen today a bigger goal than I imagined in 2012? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not: it’s the whole damn point. - Chris Roberts"

Mind showing us that poll now @DKLond?

DKLond · March 2016

Kefo said:

dsmart said:

DKLond said:

rodarin said:

Brenics said:

DKLond said:

What game? The original game that had a much, much smaller budget? I'm not sure why that's relevant to the discussion.

I'm talking about the current game and the current budget.

Once again, RSI asked the backers how to proceed with funding - and the VAST majority agreed to keep it going and expand the game.

But you're right, in a normal publisher oriented world - he would have delivered a much lesser game sooner - probably with a lot of broken promises, like always happens.

Instead, we just might get a game that brings real evolution - if not revolution - to the gaming scene, and we have to wait a few more years. That's terrible.

In any case, that takes a lot of work and a lot of people doing that work.

It's not rocket science.

If it fails, then obviously it was a bad idea. What I don't really understand from non-DS people is that some seem to actually WANT it to fail.

I mean, is it better to feel good about the failure of something big than to potentially get a fantastic game? I really don't get that.

To each his own, however.

Can you show me the link to where people asked CR to keep asking for money so they could make the game bigger? People keep saying stuff like that but never show any polls or heck even emails sent out to backers asking them that!

I dont like to quote everything but theyre related.

But yeah when was this poll taken? How much has been raised since then? How many new sjip jpegs have been created? How many of those have been sold? How many months of 'developmental news' subs have been sold. How many thought the Star Marine would be eliminated when (if) they 'asked' for expansion? How many believed CR when he said feature creep and expanding the game wouldnt delay it? Was that the main reason people asked for expansion (assuming they did).

A lot of questions can be asked (and none can be answered) about that simple statement.

But it also gets to the heart of this whole thing. I do remember CR saying that more money and more stretch goals WOULD NOT delay the game, we knew then and we definitely know now that was lie. Be it logistical impossibility or outright deception. So he sold a bill of good he should have known (f he were competent) couldnt be realized. I touched on that aspect years ago. That he is either a liar or an idiot, neither of which are good. And nothing from then (around Oct 2012) and now has changed my opinion on that, and if anything more empirical 'evidence' proves the latter.

But thats why cons work, for multiple reasons actually. Generally the money taken isnt life changing so people just chalk it up to a 'life experience', and it is far more easier to con someone than to make them believe they were conned. Like I said CR and family could disappear to a non extradition country tomorrow (with suitcases full of cash and it fluttering around like one of those old cartoons) everything could be shut down and all the links could be dead the tech demo could be disconnected and 95% of the 'backers' would think it was because they were getting away from all the negativity and making the final push to release the game.

While it wont be that extreme you can be damned sure these guys have lived a much higher lifestyle than they would have the past few years and will for the foreseeable future. if people that gave them money thinks thats OK then there isnt much else to be said I guess.

When did CR say that expanding the scope of the game would not mean delays?

I'd be interested to see that.

Glad you asked. Start here :

https://web.archive.org/web/20121103204818/http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen-faq/

"The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period. We intend to build the game that Chris Roberts described at GDC Online regardless, but without additional funding we are going to have to do it one piece at a time, starting with Squadron 42, rather than as a single larger production. With more funding we can include more ships, systems, unique locations, animations and cinematic sequences. - Chris Roberts"

BONUS POINT #1: you can spot ALL the statements which have now proven - without a doubt - to be BLATANT LIES)

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/21/chris-roberts-addresses-star-citizen-delays-and-feature-creep-concerns.aspx

http://kotaku.com/why-star-citizen-is-taking-so-long-1724835913

http://kotaku.com/star-citizen-designer-addresses-some-backer-concerns-1719333419

EXTRA BONUS:

"There are people out there who are going to tell you that this is all a BAD THING. That it’s ‘feature creep’ and we should make a smaller, less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly or in order to meet artificial deadlines. Now I’ll answer those claims in one word: Bullshit!
Star Citizen matters BECAUSE it is big, because it is a bold dream. It is something everyone else is scared to try. You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before. You’re here and reading this because we are willing to go big, to do the things that terrify publishers. You’ve trusted us with your money so we can build a game, not line our pockets. And we sure as hell didn’t run this campaign so we could put that money in the bank, guarantee ourselves a profit and turn out some flimsy replica of a game I’ve made before. You went all in supporting us and we’ve gone all in making the game. Is Star Citizen today a bigger goal than I imagined in 2012? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not: it’s the whole damn point. - Chris Roberts"

Mind showing us that poll now @DKLond?

You mean I should show you some bullshit poll that has nothing to do with what's been said?

That's not my style.

However, if you believe the poll to be a fabrication, may you to continue to do so.

All I can say is that I don't lie, it's not my style.

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Rob Irving (Former Lead Designer of Star Citizen) interview - admits Escapists article is true

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Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event

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Rob Irving (Former Lead Designer of Star Citizen) interview - admits Escapists article is true

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Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event