A glorified single player game that tries to pass itself off as an MMO will fail.
Really? Didn't The Division or The Destiny try to pass themselves off as MMOs?
Didn't both make tons of money?
1. Both are MMO's.
2. MMO's are not dying by any metric you choose to measure them.
3. I used to take you somewhat seriously when you posted these topics now I see you for what you really are. Not even a troll, just a high school drama queen that does/say's asinine things simply to garner attention. I am not sure what leisure activities you choose to pursue besides creating drama on game discussion boards, but perhaps you take a break from this and come back when you get your head together.
Seriously, your dogma against MMO games is wearing less then thin and I would not be surprised if people just start instantly reporting your posts in and effort to shut you up. I have said ti before and I say it again now; we get it you wish doom and gloom on the MMORPG genre of gaming, I personally think once again you take this stance not out of any real perceived decline in games but in a effort to be outside the accepted norm in order to get attention.
as I said in 2 above, use whatever data you want to determine if games in general are dying in about 30 seconds you will find you are wrong.
So, Drama Queen, just stop or at least change material.
I feel like I should not have to say this to an adult.
LOL Drama Queen!!! This whole website is made up of DRAMA QUEENS!!!! And...for the record, he is just speaking his mind, unlike some people, who for some reason just because they don't AGREE with him, starts drama with him. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Or the fact that you had nothing to add but more BS, and a weak attempt at trying to say all is drama here. If you actually read and can be bothered to make a coherent post you will see heaps of people makes points, back them up by facts and have decent conversations. Not just reiterate the same old thing time and again with no facts to back it up.
But you're right your post is truly ground breaking in it's pointlessness. Indeed, Hypocrisy at it's finest.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I think there are some interesting points, and even a nod to current statistics about SWTOR and Destiny. Perhaps a large part of traditional MMO decline is the saturation of the genre. Not to mention how many similarities there are between games these days.
What do you think?
The fact that just WoW is way over the hill and losing players rapidly does not mean ALL mmo's are dying LOL.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
A glorified single player game that tries to pass itself off as an MMO will fail.
Really? Didn't The Division or The Destiny try to pass themselves off as MMOs?
Didn't both make tons of money?
1. Both are MMO's.
2. MMO's are not dying by any metric you choose to measure them.
3. I used to take you somewhat seriously when you posted these topics now I see you for what you really are. Not even a troll, just a high school drama queen that does/say's asinine things simply to garner attention. I am not sure what leisure activities you choose to pursue besides creating drama on game discussion boards, but perhaps you take a break from this and come back when you get your head together.
Seriously, your dogma against MMO games is wearing less then thin and I would not be surprised if people just start instantly reporting your posts in and effort to shut you up. I have said ti before and I say it again now; we get it you wish doom and gloom on the MMORPG genre of gaming, I personally think once again you take this stance not out of any real perceived decline in games but in a effort to be outside the accepted norm in order to get attention.
as I said in 2 above, use whatever data you want to determine if games in general are dying in about 30 seconds you will find you are wrong.
So, Drama Queen, just stop or at least change material.
I feel like I should not have to say this to an adult.
LOL Drama Queen!!! This whole website is made up of DRAMA QUEENS!!!! And...for the record, he is just speaking his mind, unlike some people, who for some reason just because they don't AGREE with him, starts drama with him. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Or the fact that you had nothing to add but more BS, and a weak attempt at trying to say all is drama here. If you actually read and can be bothered to make a coherent post you will see heaps of people makes points, back them up by facts and have decent conversations. Not just reiterate the same old thing time and again with no facts to back it up.
But you're right your post is truly ground breaking in it's pointlessness. Indeed, Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Right.....keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. I call it like I see it.
I have alot of gamer friends and they all used to play mmo's. Heck we used to have guilds in many mmo's at once. Now they are into mobile games or single player games. They say they are just tired of playing online with people and having to pay a sub. I guess you could call it burnout.
Or that they find better games. And don't forget convenience. Why do I have to waste my time organizing 10 player raid, when i can click a button and have fun (either with or without others)?
It's not all about convenience. I remember what it took to cross Antonica in Everquest. I'd have to gear up on food, water, arrows, get a SOW spell (Spirit of Wolf for fast movement) cast on me, and in some cases pair up with someone for mutual protection. The journey took me the better part of the hour, and was harrowing at times. And I loved it.
Then, one expansion, they brought in the teleporting stones, where you would just click and port to any major city you wanted to. And I hated it. My heart sank that day and I knew the best of EQ was behind it.
So, sometimes, the challenge is the thrill. Gaming is not just hopping about and spamming attacks.
That was a problem. You sit down with an hour to play, and you waste it... Running from Point A to Point B? I'm sorry, but nothing about that seems fun to me.
I played back then. I remember killing Sea Goblins or whatever in Ocean of Tears and dying. The run back to there from Neriak was fun sucking and a major time waster. In addition to that, there were KOS guards at Ocean of Tears that would run on the boat and kill you if you were standing too close to to door.
There was a lot that was fun about EverQuest, but the massive amount of time it wasted in some attempt to make things seem more real wasn't one of them. But we dealt with it, because basically every game did that.
The reason why PoK bought in the portal stones is because people hated wasting so much of their time running around, and in many cases they ignored huge amounts of in-game content simply because they didn't want to waste their time running to and fro.
It was a limiting factor for the game. It wasn't that immersive, it wasted tons of time, and it actually discouraged people from seeing a larger variety of content. Instead, they'd just camp outside of their favorite grind spots, log in, XP, log off, etc. unless they had to leave for a raid.
Wizards and Druids could port, anyways, so it's not like fast travel was never there. It was just limited to two classes. Many of the PoK stones went to basically the same spots Druids or Wizards ported into...
FF XIV ARR is doing better than ever. The game will last another 10+ years. MMO's are not dead or dying, your just playing the crappy ones lol.
The gameplay is too slow, and the engine performs terribly on PCs that aren't relatively high end (you'll be turning so much down, that it will look like EverQuest...). The gameplay is hampered by the fact that they want to make console players equal citizens.
I think there are some interesting points, and even a nod to current statistics about SWTOR and Destiny. Perhaps a large part of traditional MMO decline is the saturation of the genre. Not to mention how many similarities there are between games these days.
What do you think?
The fact that just WoW is way over the hill and losing players rapidly does not mean ALL mmo's are dying LOL.
The interesting thing about WoW losing players "rapidly" is that we can't really account for where those players are going. I mean, 90% of the MMORPGs on the market are losing players rapidly these days. They certainly aren't running to BDO or Blade and Soul. It's not The Elder Scrolls Online. It's not WildStart, EQ2, EQ, DAoC, GW2, FFXIV, AoC, Rift, Archeage, NW, etc.
Many of those players seem to be moving on from gaming completely, or moving onto different types of games. Console gaming.
I think that's the trend people are ignoring as they ignorantly bash WoW for losing players.
People are leaving the genre, period. The overall player base is shrinking and yet we still have developers shitting out games in some attempt to make it big, when the opportunities simply aren't as big as they were when WoW got up to 12M+ subscribers.
The issue with WoW isn't that it's over the hill, it's that the game has been on the market for a while. There are two major core issues with WoW (which aren't necessarily issues as they will happen in every game):
1. True Newbies cannot get a great experience leveling up, due to changes to the game made in favor of the aging player base (who don't want to spend 3 months leveling up an alt, when it's their 10th alt... speed run low level instances in heirlooms... have grown impatient with newbie-type play habits... etc.)
2. Players who have played WoW for years don't have much else that's worth doing in the game that isn't extremely repetitive compared to what they've already done.
Farming MORE mounts isn't any different than farming many of the mounts you've already farmed. Same for Pet Battles, Pet Collection, Achievements (which mean nothing when it's for level 80 Content and you're level 100 Soloing Heroic 25M raids by 3-5 shooting the raid bosses), Transmogs, etc. This stuff gets repetitive after a while and you simply stop caring about it. This is why I'll never do Draenor Flying. Farming more Reps... as if I hadn't farmed enough already? Thanks, but no thanks.
The only thing that keeps WoW accessible is the speed at which players can level up and get "catch up gear" to step into raiding. This is something that worked against EQ when it got older, which is why SOE has churned out so many progression servers. EQ2 isn't as bad, and I found the leveling experience to be more rewarding than WoW's (it does last longer, as well), at least once you're past level 20 or so...
like wtf. guys. mmorpg - a game. why gta 2 is dead? why call of duty 2 is dead? why no one playing witcher 1? because there is nothing eternal. why are ALL THE PEOPLE DYING?
The economy is improving so the no-lifers are finally getting jobs. Also, many of the mmo vets are much older now and have either burned out on the genre or middle-age personal life is just too busy. The younger kids are not as noveled by the idea of an MMO, and many just want the quick fix of MOBA's or loot shooters.
People don't like cash shops. It ruins the gaming experience everytime you feel the need to pay hundreds/thousands on a monthly basis to stay competitive (this is why I just quit Black Desert Online).
is that the reason why LoL is now making more money than wow? wait ....
Different gaming crowd (majority of moba and mmorpg players will have different mentalities). NFL makes more money than any gaming company could ever dream. Enough said.
So? You point is about "people don't like cash shops", and LoL has a cash shop. Are you saying people only hate cash shops in mmorpgs, but love them in MOBAs?
NFL has no cash shop ... and so is irrelevant to what you are saying. LoL has one ... so it is relevant. Enough said.
A glorified single player game that tries to pass itself off as an MMO will fail.
Really? Didn't The Division or The Destiny try to pass themselves off as MMOs?
Didn't both make tons of money?
1. Both are MMO's.
2. MMO's are not dying by any metric you choose to measure them.
3. I used to take you somewhat seriously when you posted these topics now I see you for what you really are. Not even a troll, just a high school drama queen that does/say's asinine things simply to garner attention. I am not sure what leisure activities you choose to pursue besides creating drama on game discussion boards, but perhaps you take a break from this and come back when you get your head together.
Seriously, your dogma against MMO games is wearing less then thin and I would not be surprised if people just start instantly reporting your posts in and effort to shut you up. I have said ti before and I say it again now; we get it you wish doom and gloom on the MMORPG genre of gaming, I personally think once again you take this stance not out of any real perceived decline in games but in a effort to be outside the accepted norm in order to get attention.
as I said in 2 above, use whatever data you want to determine if games in general are dying in about 30 seconds you will find you are wrong.
So, Drama Queen, just stop or at least change material.
I feel like I should not have to say this to an adult.
LOL Drama Queen!!! This whole website is made up of DRAMA QUEENS!!!! And...for the record, he is just speaking his mind, unlike some people, who for some reason just because they don't AGREE with him, starts drama with him. Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Or the fact that you had nothing to add but more BS, and a weak attempt at trying to say all is drama here. If you actually read and can be bothered to make a coherent post you will see heaps of people makes points, back them up by facts and have decent conversations. Not just reiterate the same old thing time and again with no facts to back it up.
But you're right your post is truly ground breaking in it's pointlessness. Indeed, Hypocrisy at it's finest.
Right.....keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. I call it like I see it.
As do I.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I think everyone should just ignore Nari no matter what he says, he obviously gets a rise out of this, so just don't respond to anything he says. He's just not worth it.
Are you suggesting we all put him on our ignore list? Sounds like an interesting experiment.
Absolutely.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I suspect I'm with nauriseldon on this. I don't think they are. I think the gamer flocks are consuming the content at the intended rate, dropping funds, and moving on as intended.
As as to why the old school games are less populous, I suspect it is because we old school gamers no longer corner the market, and so the flocks aren't trapped in our virtual worlds.
More like, the big influx of "lite gamers" that WoW originally brought in, have mostly moved on from MMORPGs, to MOBAs, mobile and browser games (and more capable console games, too, I expect).
Those more serious "MMORPG gamers" are not playing much, because there are currently no (new) games offering the experience they want.
So you have (or had) companies making MMO lites for people that largely don't want to play them any more, or conversely, never really wanted to play what is or was being released up to now.
Thus, companies like FC, SOE, and the other MMO makers have gone under, been sold, or no longer make MMOs any more.
More like, the big influx of "lite gamers" that WoW originally brought in, have mostly moved on from MMORPGs, to MOBAs, mobile and browser games (and more capable console games, too, I expect).
Those more serious "MMORPG gamers" are not playing much, because there are currently no (new) games offering the experience they want.
So you have (or had) companies making MMO lites for people that largely don't want to play them any more, or conversely, never really wanted to play what is or was being released up to now.
Thus, companies like FC, SOE, and the other MMO makers have gone under, been sold, or no longer make MMOs any more.
It is no mystery, really.
I mostly agree with this. I don't think the market of gamers that want something like EQ has grown. It's still the same size it was in 2004, or even smaller. The newer generation of gamers aren't into dumping that much of their life in a game, and a lot of us who did it in the past don't want to do it anymore.
So while it's nice to opine and be nostalgic about your experiences back then, there is hardly any market for games like that. Pantheon will tell the story.
Gamers these days seem way more competitive and PvP-centric then the average MMORPG player was back then.
Additionally, Consoles are offering much of the social experience that MMORPGs provided to PC gamers decades ago, without the need to live in the same virtual worlds for years at a time. You just start up a party chat and off you go. Console games are also starting to erode away at the MMORPG as well (Destiny, Division, Multi-Player components in Single Player RPGs like DA:I, Assassin's Creed, Last of Us, Uncharted, etc.).
Consoles now also offer better performance and graphics than the average mid-range PC, at a fraction of the cost of a gaming rig, as well.
If MMORPGs don't start moving swiftly to that form factor, their market is going to get eroded even further by console games, and they will lose even more players to competitors on that form factor.
I don't even plan to upgrade my PCs anymore, and when I do buy new PCs, they will likely be Macs and definitely not spec'd to play games. I've already started my transition from PC to Console gaming. WoW is the last MMORPG I'm likely to play on the Windows/OS X PC form factor/platform.
More like, the big influx of "lite gamers" that WoW originally brought in, have mostly moved on from MMORPGs, to MOBAs, mobile and browser games (and more capable console games, too, I expect).
Those more serious "MMORPG gamers" are not playing much, because there are currently no (new) games offering the experience they want.
So you have (or had) companies making MMO lites for people that largely don't want to play them any more, or conversely, never really wanted to play what is or was being released up to now.
Thus, companies like FC, SOE, and the other MMO makers have gone under, been sold, or no longer make MMOs any more.
It is no mystery, really.
I mostly agree with this. I don't think the market of gamers that want something like EQ has grown. It's still the same size it was in 2004, or even smaller. The newer generation of gamers aren't into dumping that much of their life in a game, and a lot of us who did it in the past don't want to do it anymore.
So while it's nice to opine and be nostalgic about your experiences back then, there is hardly any market for games like that. Pantheon will tell the story.
Gamers these days seem way more competitive and PvP-centric then the average MMORPG player was back then.
Additionally, Consoles are offering much of the social experience that MMORPGs provided to PC gamers decades ago, without the need to live in the same virtual worlds for years at a time. You just start up a party chat and off you go. Console games are also starting to erode away at the MMORPG as well (Destiny, Division, Multi-Player components in Single Player RPGs like DA:I, Assassin's Creed, Last of Us, Uncharted, etc.).
Consoles now also offer better performance and graphics than the average mid-range PC, at a fraction of the cost of a gaming rig, as well.
If MMORPGs don't start moving swiftly to that form factor, their market is going to get eroded even further by console games, and they will lose even more players to competitors on that form factor.
I don't even plan to upgrade my PCs anymore, and when I do buy new PCs, they will likely be Macs and definitely not spec'd to play games. I've already started my transition from PC to Console gaming. WoW is the last MMORPG I'm likely to play on the Windows/OS X PC form factor/platform.
Trouble is, consoles are not in a good place, already both the XB1 and the PS4 are at the end of their lifecycle and are going to be replaced. Microsoft is even going so far as to move away from the Xbox as their main platform, and are shifting solidly towards using Win10 as their primary gaming platform, because if there is one thing, is that PC gaming is still growing, and has been fairly consistently for years, the console market however, not so much, and already the consoles are out of date so badly. Already, Sony are intending to bring out a new version of the PS4, there is talk that they will call it the 4.5 as it will effectively be the same console, but with better hardware. Reason is because the current batch of consoles are comparable only to an entry level/low end PC, they can barely manage 1080 resolutions in gaming, and even then are often reduced to just 30 fps, just look at The Division, both consoles struggle with 30fps and only the PS4 can actually manage 1080 with it, compared to the PC where 60 fps is the norm, and 1080 is the minimum, consoles are not comparable to mid range PC's at all, though a year or two ago, they probably would have been, there is even the suggestion that the new version of the PS4 will actually be able to handle 4k gaming. As for the Mac's, apple isn't really interested, their focus is on the mobile market, itunes and the iphone, its where they make their money, and the Mac's are probably something that Apple are wondering if they will continue to support, the revenue from it, compared to the costs for maintaining the aging OS probably mean that the platform itself is a liability to them, now they are pretty much comparable to Linux PC's only not as powerful, if anything, games developers are more likely to support a linux version than a mac version, only, its not just games software developers, but other types of software also that are increasingly, not mac compatable, not a surprise really, after all, ask anyone on the street, what Apple have, and you will invariably hear 'iphone' rather than 'Macs' assuming they even know what a Mac is of course, chances are, most of them won't, even if they have Iphones. And then there is the recent activities by Microsoft, by making Win10 a recommended update in the automatic updates bit of Win7 and 8, by now, a significant proportion of them have already been 'updated' it will be interesting to see in 2 months time, just what proportion of the PC market is now Win10, i have a feeling, that it will be a lot more than 12 percent, and the reason for this is because Microsofts next console, is the PC.
I mostly agree with this. I don't think the market of gamers that want something like EQ has grown. It's still the same size it was in 2004, or even smaller. The newer generation of gamers aren't into dumping that much of their life in a game, and a lot of us who did it in the past don't want to do it anymore.
Consoles now also offer better performance and graphics than the average mid-range PC, at a fraction of the cost of a gaming rig, as well.
It is not about consoles vs PC. It is about mmos vs other game types, and mmos are losing big time.
I mostly agree with this. I don't think the market of gamers that want something like EQ has grown. It's still the same size it was in 2004, or even smaller. The newer generation of gamers aren't into dumping that much of their life in a game, and a lot of us who did it in the past don't want to do it anymore.
So while it's nice to opine and be nostalgic about your experiences back then, there is hardly any market for games like that. Pantheon will tell the story.
I want to jump in on this. While yes I dont want the same game that MMORPGs were back before WOW or even exactly Vanilla TBC WOW I do want an experience where an MMO is still a part of my life. A small part of my life but none the less a part. The Problem is todays MMOs are just a lobby based game.
What we need is something between todays MMORPGS and Vanilla WOW. No LFD tools just grouping tools where people need to chat with one another and see if they are a fit for the group and content someone who only spends 10 to 15 hours a week playing can get through even if it means a few weeks of working on it. The problem is games today are too much like BK and MCD.
What we need is something between todays MMORPGS and Vanilla WOW. No LFD tools just grouping tools where people need to chat with one another and see if they are a fit for the group and content someone who only spends 10 to 15 hours a week playing can get through even if it means a few weeks of working on it. The problem is games today are too much like BK and MCD.
"We" don't need that.
I am not interested to chat. I play games to play, not chat with people. What "we" (probably not you) need is more MMO-lite games like The Division with better combat and content.
I guess I am one of those players. The last MMORPG I paid for was Star Wars: The Old Republic.( huge disappointment). I did a few F2P, a few Betas (ESO and WildStar) since then but nothing more than a week or two. I even did SWGemu.
I am playing Star Wars: Rebellion and older Total War games. My gaming dollars stays in my wallet. The industry is either incapable or unwilling to make a product I would be willing to spend time and money on.
MMOs are definitely not dying, but its safe to say that many developers have lost sight of the reasons that players want to play..
Lost sight or going with the times? I mean, does your father or grandfather enjoy the same things as you? Do they sometimes reiterate just like most do on this website, "Back in the day, etc etc"? You either get with the times or go to MMORPG.com and flex your muscles about how it was so awesome back in the day.
Yeah, my grandfather and father both enjoyed football, golf and playing card games, all things that have stayed basically same throughout their lifetimes and mine, and I along with many others enjoy them more than ever.
MMORPGs "evolution" away from their strengths vs single player games is why the genre is for all purposes lost while it awaits a renaissance of originality along with a return to the player socialization and interaction mechanics of former times.
To reinvent themselves they need to return to their strengths and stop pandering to the fickle masses who've clearly moved elsewhere.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
FF XIV ARR is doing better than ever. The game will last another 10+ years. MMO's are not dead or dying, your just playing the crappy ones lol.
The gameplay is too slow, and the engine performs terribly on PCs that aren't relatively high end (you'll be turning so much down, that it will look like EverQuest...). The gameplay is hampered by the fact that they want to make console players equal citizens.
All I can say to this is get a better PC. It takes a 660 GTX to run it at max. I am running it at ultra settings and im using an 870m, 8 gigs of ram, and an 8 core processor. About 900$ now for my set up and again, I can run the game at ULTRA PC, not laptop, DESKTOP settings ULTRA.
Which means my PC(laptop) is from 2013, the year FF XIV ARR launched. We also have dx11 too.
Let me guess, you got a TI card for productivity thinking it was a gaming card? I have seen people do this mistake because it saves them 100 or so dollars.
Combat is 2.5 and after 50 it's EVEN LOWER GCD. As a DRG, I never wait for cooldowns. Especially after the level 30 + mark.
And yo combat your console theory, no, they did not. I have it for PS4 and there is no difference in gameplay or lag. BUT, then again, I do have 300mbp internet and both are wired in. So there is no "hamper" in gameplay AT ALL unless your internet sucks and that can happen on PC too.
Hell, PS3 has a duel core and it runs the game at high settings(looks a million times better than EQ). PS4 at ultra and soon 4k.
Oh yeah, you can play in 4k at 60 fps on ultra with a 2014 rig with ease. My buddy is doing it with his 760gtx LOL.
So like I said before, mmo's are not dying, people just for some reason choose the crappy ones. IDK what else to say dude.
Over saturation of the market with over hyped poor quality products designed solely for pre sales with zero thought to sustainability or longevity of the product. Game studios have realized as long as it is unregulated industry that there is more profit in defrauding the customers out of initial pre-sales, early access, and founders packs then quickly moving on to the next fraud project. As long as gamers are crack addicts that MUST have that fix no matter what , the drug dealing studios will continue to raise the price and cut the product.
Comments
But you're right your post is truly ground breaking in it's pointlessness. Indeed, Hypocrisy at it's finest.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
I played back then. I remember killing Sea Goblins or whatever in Ocean of Tears and dying. The run back to there from Neriak was fun sucking and a major time waster. In addition to that, there were KOS guards at Ocean of Tears that would run on the boat and kill you if you were standing too close to to door.
There was a lot that was fun about EverQuest, but the massive amount of time it wasted in some attempt to make things seem more real wasn't one of them. But we dealt with it, because basically every game did that.
The reason why PoK bought in the portal stones is because people hated wasting so much of their time running around, and in many cases they ignored huge amounts of in-game content simply because they didn't want to waste their time running to and fro.
It was a limiting factor for the game. It wasn't that immersive, it wasted tons of time, and it actually discouraged people from seeing a larger variety of content. Instead, they'd just camp outside of their favorite grind spots, log in, XP, log off, etc. unless they had to leave for a raid.
Wizards and Druids could port, anyways, so it's not like fast travel was never there. It was just limited to two classes. Many of the PoK stones went to basically the same spots Druids or Wizards ported into...
The interesting thing about WoW losing players "rapidly" is that we can't really account for where those players are going. I mean, 90% of the MMORPGs on the market are losing players rapidly these days. They certainly aren't running to BDO or Blade and Soul. It's not The Elder Scrolls Online. It's not WildStart, EQ2, EQ, DAoC, GW2, FFXIV, AoC, Rift, Archeage, NW, etc.
Many of those players seem to be moving on from gaming completely, or moving onto different types of games. Console gaming.
I think that's the trend people are ignoring as they ignorantly bash WoW for losing players.
People are leaving the genre, period. The overall player base is shrinking and yet we still have developers shitting out games in some attempt to make it big, when the opportunities simply aren't as big as they were when WoW got up to 12M+ subscribers.
The issue with WoW isn't that it's over the hill, it's that the game has been on the market for a while. There are two major core issues with WoW (which aren't necessarily issues as they will happen in every game):
1. True Newbies cannot get a great experience leveling up, due to changes to the game made in favor of the aging player base (who don't want to spend 3 months leveling up an alt, when it's their 10th alt... speed run low level instances in heirlooms... have grown impatient with newbie-type play habits... etc.)
2. Players who have played WoW for years don't have much else that's worth doing in the game that isn't extremely repetitive compared to what they've already done.
Farming MORE mounts isn't any different than farming many of the mounts you've already farmed. Same for Pet Battles, Pet Collection, Achievements (which mean nothing when it's for level 80 Content and you're level 100 Soloing Heroic 25M raids by 3-5 shooting the raid bosses), Transmogs, etc. This stuff gets repetitive after a while and you simply stop caring about it. This is why I'll never do Draenor Flying. Farming more Reps... as if I hadn't farmed enough already? Thanks, but no thanks.
The only thing that keeps WoW accessible is the speed at which players can level up and get "catch up gear" to step into raiding. This is something that worked against EQ when it got older, which is why SOE has churned out so many progression servers. EQ2 isn't as bad, and I found the leveling experience to be more rewarding than WoW's (it does last longer, as well), at least once you're past level 20 or so...
NFL has no cash shop ... and so is irrelevant to what you are saying. LoL has one ... so it is relevant. Enough said.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
As as to why the old school games are less populous, I suspect it is because we old school gamers no longer corner the market, and so the flocks aren't trapped in our virtual worlds.
Those more serious "MMORPG gamers" are not playing much, because there are currently no (new) games offering the experience they want.
So you have (or had) companies making MMO lites for people that largely don't want to play them any more, or conversely, never really wanted to play what is or was being released up to now.
Thus, companies like FC, SOE, and the other MMO makers have gone under, been sold, or no longer make MMOs any more.
It is no mystery, really.
So while it's nice to opine and be nostalgic about your experiences back then, there is hardly any market for games like that. Pantheon will tell the story.
Gamers these days seem way more competitive and PvP-centric then the average MMORPG player was back then.
Additionally, Consoles are offering much of the social experience that MMORPGs provided to PC gamers decades ago, without the need to live in the same virtual worlds for years at a time. You just start up a party chat and off you go. Console games are also starting to erode away at the MMORPG as well (Destiny, Division, Multi-Player components in Single Player RPGs like DA:I, Assassin's Creed, Last of Us, Uncharted, etc.).
Consoles now also offer better performance and graphics than the average mid-range PC, at a fraction of the cost of a gaming rig, as well.
If MMORPGs don't start moving swiftly to that form factor, their market is going to get eroded even further by console games, and they will lose even more players to competitors on that form factor.
I don't even plan to upgrade my PCs anymore, and when I do buy new PCs, they will likely be Macs and definitely not spec'd to play games. I've already started my transition from PC to Console gaming. WoW is the last MMORPG I'm likely to play on the Windows/OS X PC form factor/platform.
Microsoft is even going so far as to move away from the Xbox as their main platform, and are shifting solidly towards using Win10 as their primary gaming platform, because if there is one thing, is that PC gaming is still growing, and has been fairly consistently for years, the console market however, not so much, and already the consoles are out of date so badly.
Already, Sony are intending to bring out a new version of the PS4, there is talk that they will call it the 4.5 as it will effectively be the same console, but with better hardware.
Reason is because the current batch of consoles are comparable only to an entry level/low end PC, they can barely manage 1080 resolutions in gaming, and even then are often reduced to just 30 fps, just look at The Division, both consoles struggle with 30fps and only the PS4 can actually manage 1080 with it, compared to the PC where 60 fps is the norm, and 1080 is the minimum, consoles are not comparable to mid range PC's at all, though a year or two ago, they probably would have been, there is even the suggestion that the new version of the PS4 will actually be able to handle 4k gaming.
As for the Mac's, apple isn't really interested, their focus is on the mobile market, itunes and the iphone, its where they make their money, and the Mac's are probably something that Apple are wondering if they will continue to support, the revenue from it, compared to the costs for maintaining the aging OS probably mean that the platform itself is a liability to them, now they are pretty much comparable to Linux PC's only not as powerful, if anything, games developers are more likely to support a linux version than a mac version, only, its not just games software developers, but other types of software also that are increasingly, not mac compatable, not a surprise really, after all, ask anyone on the street, what Apple have, and you will invariably hear 'iphone' rather than 'Macs' assuming they even know what a Mac is of course, chances are, most of them won't, even if they have Iphones.
And then there is the recent activities by Microsoft, by making Win10 a recommended update in the automatic updates bit of Win7 and 8, by now, a significant proportion of them have already been 'updated' it will be interesting to see in 2 months time, just what proportion of the PC market is now Win10, i have a feeling, that it will be a lot more than 12 percent, and the reason for this is because Microsofts next console, is the PC.
What we need is something between todays MMORPGS and Vanilla WOW. No LFD tools just grouping tools where people need to chat with one another and see if they are a fit for the group and content someone who only spends 10 to 15 hours a week playing can get through even if it means a few weeks of working on it. The problem is games today are too much like BK and MCD.
I am not interested to chat. I play games to play, not chat with people. What "we" (probably not you) need is more MMO-lite games like The Division with better combat and content.
I am playing Star Wars: Rebellion and older Total War games. My gaming dollars stays in my wallet. The industry is either incapable or unwilling to make a product I would be willing to spend time and money on.
MMORPGs "evolution" away from their strengths vs single player games is why the genre is for all purposes lost while it awaits a renaissance of originality along with a return to the player socialization and interaction mechanics of former times.
To reinvent themselves they need to return to their strengths and stop pandering to the fickle masses who've clearly moved elsewhere.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Which means my PC(laptop) is from 2013, the year FF XIV ARR launched. We also have dx11 too.
Let me guess, you got a TI card for productivity thinking it was a gaming card? I have seen people do this mistake because it saves them 100 or so dollars.
Combat is 2.5 and after 50 it's EVEN LOWER GCD. As a DRG, I never wait for cooldowns. Especially after the level 30 + mark.
And yo combat your console theory, no, they did not. I have it for PS4 and there is no difference in gameplay or lag. BUT, then again, I do have 300mbp internet and both are wired in. So there is no "hamper" in gameplay AT ALL unless your internet sucks and that can happen on PC too.
Hell, PS3 has a duel core and it runs the game at high settings(looks a million times better than EQ). PS4 at ultra and soon 4k.
Oh yeah, you can play in 4k at 60 fps on ultra with a 2014 rig with ease. My buddy is doing it with his 760gtx LOL.
So like I said before, mmo's are not dying, people just for some reason choose the crappy ones. IDK what else to say dude.