The reason i like mmo's is the group play, the fact that i can play with friends and make new friends in the game. Lately mmo's have less fokus on groupplay and more on soloplay. Lots of mmo's have content you can only play solo. The storydriven mmo seems to be the trend, but it's usually solostory.
Solostory is nice, but it doesn't help you get new friends in the game, and friends are usually a big part of what keeps people hanging around in mmo's. Imo the increased fokus on soloplay is bad for longevity even if it may be good for short term profit. It's part of why people go from mmo to mmo. They've finished the story, so they move on.
Professional graphic designers prefer Apple Macs hugely over PCs.
I bought a MacBook Pro for work, rather than a PC, because I wanted something 100% reliable - and it is. I have no worries about getting a virus etc.
Therefore, I don't believe your claim that Macs are in decline.
Just a slight clarification.
MACS DO get virus's, it is just that because they have such a small share of the market no one really bothers making a virus for them. And from my experience it is the software on the MACS rather then the hardware (which is the same as for a PC pretty much) or OS that is the defining reason for one system over another.
And it's not just that basically all MMORPGs are pay2win, they're also so boring in matters of quests and skills. I just have to look at the skills of a classes and read something like "shield bash" or "super strike: hits for 50 more damage" or such nonsense and I'm already bored to death and want to play something else. Then most of them are incredibly linear, you're basically walking on rails all the time. And there is next to no replayability. WoW started with six different starting zones. Yep, you could create six characters and each and every one of them would give you new content for the first couple of hours. Heck, you could level to the max at least twice without having to level in the same zone more than once. It started with 8 races (none gender-locked) and 9 classes.
Now I haven't played WoW for a long time myself, but this is just a comparison of how much that game offered a decade ago, compared to how little newer MMORPGs offer.
I am still very much into MMORPGs but a few coming out now are action based so I avoided those but I still will play one that is tab target and not so twitch friendly.
MMOs are dying because players are antisocial and MMOs went for the single player experience to try to accommodate. But why do we need online single player experiences?
SPRPGs provide a much better experience for me alone than solo game play in any MMO.
Professional graphic designers prefer Apple Macs hugely over PCs.
I bought a MacBook Pro for work, rather than a PC, because I wanted something 100% reliable - and it is. I have no worries about getting a virus etc.
Therefore, I don't believe your claim that Macs are in decline.
Just a slight clarification.
MACS DO get virus's, it is just that because they have such a small share of the market no one really bothers making a virus for them. And from my experience it is the software on the MACS rather then the hardware (which is the same as for a PC pretty much) or OS that is the defining reason for one system over another.
There may not be many Mac's out in the wild, but there were enough of them to be 'roped' into being part of a botnet, the mistake a lot of Mac users make is that they think they can't be hacked, so they don't bother with antivirus or firewall programs, a mistake that most don't even realise till long after they have been infected. As anyone in the business will attest, Mac's get hacked on a regular basis, you just don't hear about it as much, because not many actually use them. I do question though whether Mac's are still used that much for CAD etc. i know years ago that used to be the case, but these days, Mac's are associated more with Hipsters than CAD users, like architects etc. And since the advent of Win 7, i am not really sure that you can truthfully say, that Mac's are more reliable than Windows PC's, the industry i was working in, until a few months ago at least, was primarily based on Win 7 PC's, chances are they will never use Win 10 because updates are only selectively rolled out, and a 3rd party, even Microsoft would never be given access to the network. O.o
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Of course not. The Division is highly successful. The World of Tank is highly successful. Only traditional mmorpgs are being marginalized and being cancelled.
Since The Division isn't a MMO (unless you mean Minimally Multiplayer Online) your point is, as is so often the case, irrelevant.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MMOs are definitely not dying, but its safe to say that many developers have lost sight of the reasons that players want to play..
Lost sight or going with the times? I mean, does your father or grandfather enjoy the same things as you? Do they sometimes reiterate just like most do on this website, "Back in the day, etc etc"? You either get with the times or go to MMORPG.com and flex your muscles about how it was so awesome back in the day.
Yeah, my grandfather and father both enjoyed football, golf and playing card games, all things that have stayed basically same throughout their lifetimes and mine, and I along with many others enjoy them more than ever.
MMORPGs "evolution" away from their strengths vs single player games is why the genre is for all purposes lost while it awaits a renaissance of originality along with a return to the player socialization and interaction mechanics of former times.
To reinvent themselves they need to return to their strengths and stop pandering to the fickle masses who've clearly moved elsewhere.
NFL football is nothing like it was when we were kids and when our parents were young. The AFC South didn't even exist, not the division, I mean the teams in their current place and ownership. Arizona what? Carolina who? The rules are different. NFL is here, but it's not what it was and don't get me started on how different college ball is compared to 20 years ago. You can argue that the differences aren't major or that they haven't dramatically affected the experience. But you can't argue that all things have stayed the same.
MMORPG didn't evolve from their strengths. They're still here. MMOs have gone and swallowed the entire rest of the industry and internet. We've mmo'd and gamified about every corner of online life. Facebook, it's a huge mmo. LinkedIn? Yeah, that's even more blatantly obvious. Steam/XBox Live/PS Plus have brought multiplayer to everything even stuff that isn't multiplayer. Everything is becoming mmoified with interconnectivity.
The new Baldur's Gate xpac is now multi-player. How much longer before those kinds of games expand further. How about Victor Vran? It's mmo-lite. You have chat and can join each others games.
The masses have always been fickle. The changes we've seen have been complaining about have come from complaints of the early vets: Too much grind, not enough content to keep me subscribing, xp loss sucks, xpac fees, people asking to purchase collector's edition digital goodies. The ship has been driven where we'll pay the money.
A call to return to their strengths and and stop pandering to those evil bastards who ruined our game is just sloganizing and rabble rousing. It doesn't mean anything. It sounds great and gets the indignation pumping until you start digging down into what "returning to the roots" means. Then no one agrees. No one is willing to "crack their wallet" unless their personal demands are met. They'll only stay as long as they're pandered to (sound fickle to you?).
Evolution happened. Fast. And we saw it in action. It's not like there won't be games that harken back "to their roots", but that we're never returning to that period.
No, the differences you mentioned in the NFL really are minor, still played with 11 players and brutal hitting.
Modern MMO's are like if the NFL was 4 vs 4 with no tackling permitted, 3 downs, and reduced to a single quarter with a cap so the first team to 14 wins, all so fans didn't have sit through several hours of "boring" gameplay"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Professional graphic designers prefer Apple Macs hugely over PCs.
I bought a MacBook Pro for work, rather than a PC, because I wanted something 100% reliable - and it is. I have no worries about getting a virus etc.
Therefore, I don't believe your claim that Macs are in decline.
Just a slight clarification.
MACS DO get virus's, it is just that because they have such a small share of the market no one really bothers making a virus for them. And from my experience it is the software on the MACS rather then the hardware (which is the same as for a PC pretty much) or OS that is the defining reason for one system over another.
There may not be many Mac's out in the wild, but there were enough of them to be 'roped' into being part of a botnet, the mistake a lot of Mac users make is that they think they can't be hacked, so they don't bother with antivirus or firewall programs, a mistake that most don't even realise till long after they have been infected. As anyone in the business will attest, Mac's get hacked on a regular basis, you just don't hear about it as much, because not many actually use them. I do question though whether Mac's are still used that much for CAD etc. i know years ago that used to be the case, but these days, Mac's are associated more with Hipsters than CAD users, like architects etc. And since the advent of Win 7, i am not really sure that you can truthfully say, that Mac's are more reliable than Windows PC's, the industry i was working in, until a few months ago at least, was primarily based on Win 7 PC's, chances are they will never use Win 10 because updates are only selectively rolled out, and a 3rd party, even Microsoft would never be given access to the network. O.o
The problem is that (at least in my experience in the business world) a lot of the top guys making decisions about which hardware to use don't have a clue and get suckered into the whole "MACS are better" mantra.
Try telling an exec that the MAC he just bought costs 3 times that of the same spec PC, you have to buy an entirely new suite of software for it, it CAN get a virus, we can't just open the box up to replace faulty parts and that hardware support will increase overall support costs but at least another 100%....
"yeah but it has an Apple on it" "OK but it is YOUR money you are wasting genius"
Modern MMO's are like if the NFL was 4 vs 4 with no tackling permitted, 3 downs, and reduced to a single quarter with a cap so the first team to 14 wins, all so fans didn't have sit through several hours of "boring" gameplay"
Yet instanced PvP is where the challenging PvP is. Funny that.
MMOs are dying because players are antisocial and MMOs went for the single player experience to try to accommodate. But why do we need online single player experiences?
SPRPGs provide a much better experience for me alone than solo game play in any MMO.
My opinion is that the genre was catering to players who don't like MMORPG. This genre follows metrics and they probably trended that way.
Of course not. The Division is highly successful. The World of Tank is highly successful. Only traditional mmorpgs are being marginalized and being cancelled.
Since The Division isn't a MMO (unless you mean Minimally Multiplayer Online) your point is, as is so often the case, irrelevant.
only by your definition. The dev of MMO said it is. This site said WoT is a MMO.
And oh .. i think MMO means nothing .. and certainly i do NOT object the first M means "minimally".
My opinion is that the genre was catering to players who don't like MMORPG. This genre follows metrics and they probably trended that way.
You mean "catering to players who don't like traditional MMORPG"?
Yes, i agree. I don't like traditional MMORPGs, and only some modern MMOs. That is why I am still in the genre.
And there is no reason why the genre need to cater to players who like MMORPGs, if dev do not believe there is a big enough audience, or that they simply want to cater to some other audiences. It is a free market, right?
Faux MMO's are losing big-time. Single player coop games masquerading as MMO's are losing ... and they should.
Didn't you have it in reverse?
Didn't "faux MMO" like Destiny and The Division making big money and are highly popular while games like Titan and EQN got cancelled?
Titan and EQN were cancelled because they "weren't fun" according to their creators, and likely appeared to be Faux MMO's anyways.
I think this is really a good point. By trying to be anything but an MMORPG, new games seem to fail at being something worth caring about. Short, ephemeral relationships with a gam don't inspire loyalty. They may inspire an impulse buy, but nobody really cares about any of these 30-day wonders.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
I think this is really a good point. By trying to be anything but an MMORPG, new games seem to fail at being something worth caring about. Short, ephemeral relationships with a gam don't inspire loyalty. They may inspire an impulse buy, but nobody really cares about any of these 30-day wonders.
hmm .. there are more press, sales, and active players in games like LoL, and The Division than MMORPGs, except may be WoW in the past.
So i think people care more about non-mmorpgs than mmorpgs. In fact, devs like Blizz certainly demonstrated their read of the market by cancelling Titan, and make Overwatch.
Because they turned into pay2win fests that lack in quality. That's why.
Instead of spending several hundred bucks for the founders pack of an unfinished game that is to 99% the same as any other MMORPG, I'd rather by games such as Rocket League, Civilization 5 or Fallout 4.
+1
This is one of the main reasons, but not the only reason.
My opinion is that the genre was catering to players who don't like MMORPG. This genre follows metrics and they probably trended that way.
You mean "catering to players who don't like traditional MMORPG"?
Yes, i agree. I don't like traditional MMORPGs, and only some modern MMOs. That is why I am still in the genre.
And there is no reason why the genre need to cater to players who like MMORPGs, if dev do not believe there is a big enough audience, or that they simply want to cater to some other audiences. It is a free market, right?
Why waste resources on making expensive and difficult MMO framework for gamers who don't want it or need it?
If you want to stand out, you can't do it by being someone else. That has been MMORPGs problem in the past. Thankfully we have Black Desert Online now for new games to copy.
Comments
Solostory is nice, but it doesn't help you get new friends in the game, and friends are usually a big part of what keeps people hanging around in mmo's. Imo the increased fokus on soloplay is bad for longevity even if it may be good for short term profit. It's part of why people go from mmo to mmo. They've finished the story, so they move on.
MACS DO get virus's, it is just that because they have such a small share of the market no one really bothers making a virus for them. And from my experience it is the software on the MACS rather then the hardware (which is the same as for a PC pretty much) or OS that is the defining reason for one system over another.
It's mostly habitual at this point. In college, we use both. At work, we use whatever the House uses. Freelancing, both or either (personal faves).
Designers are essentially the only multi-platform B.A.
WoW started with six different starting zones. Yep, you could create six characters and each and every one of them would give you new content for the first couple of hours. Heck, you could level to the max at least twice without having to level in the same zone more than once. It started with 8 races (none gender-locked) and 9 classes.
Now I haven't played WoW for a long time myself, but this is just a comparison of how much that game offered a decade ago, compared to how little newer MMORPGs offer.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
SPRPGs provide a much better experience for me alone than solo game play in any MMO.
I do question though whether Mac's are still used that much for CAD etc. i know years ago that used to be the case, but these days, Mac's are associated more with Hipsters than CAD users, like architects etc. And since the advent of Win 7, i am not really sure that you can truthfully say, that Mac's are more reliable than Windows PC's, the industry i was working in, until a few months ago at least, was primarily based on Win 7 PC's, chances are they will never use Win 10 because updates are only selectively rolled out, and a 3rd party, even Microsoft would never be given access to the network. O.o
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Modern MMO's are like if the NFL was 4 vs 4 with no tackling permitted, 3 downs, and reduced to a single quarter with a cap so the first team to 14 wins, all so fans didn't have sit through several hours of "boring" gameplay"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Try telling an exec that the MAC he just bought costs 3 times that of the same spec PC, you have to buy an entirely new suite of software for it, it CAN get a virus, we can't just open the box up to replace faulty parts and that hardware support will increase overall support costs but at least another 100%....
"yeah but it has an Apple on it"
"OK but it is YOUR money you are wasting genius"
It is superb online hack&slash/ARPG though.
Why? shouldn't the 80% be a much larger pool to find the whales? It is not like it is a bad idea to fleece some quick tourist whales, right?
only by your definition. The dev of MMO said it is. This site said WoT is a MMO.
And oh .. i think MMO means nothing .. and certainly i do NOT object the first M means "minimally".
Close enough to a MMO. It is not like mmo players don't play other types of online games, as the popularity of PoE here has demonstrated.
You mean "catering to players who don't like traditional MMORPG"?
Yes, i agree. I don't like traditional MMORPGs, and only some modern MMOs. That is why I am still in the genre.
And there is no reason why the genre need to cater to players who like MMORPGs, if dev do not believe there is a big enough audience, or that they simply want to cater to some other audiences. It is a free market, right?
So i think people care more about non-mmorpgs than mmorpgs. In fact, devs like Blizz certainly demonstrated their read of the market by cancelling Titan, and make Overwatch.
This is one of the main reasons, but not the only reason.