Next time you play an MMORPG with a Cash Shop, I want you to look at the cash shop, be creative, and think how Each One of those items could have been implemented as: Content or Incentive I.E Quest rewards, Dungeon exclusives, Challenge modes, Raiding, Special Events, ect.
But why? The only thing i care about when i look at cash shop is if the items are giving unfair advantage to the buyer or are they simply comsetic and non game impacting.
I don't really understand why I should want to pay for others to plays video games. Video games are not a necessity of life, if someone wants to play them, they should open their own wallet.
Because you are not a whale. While i am not a whale, i can see some people may want to feel successful in front of others, and p2w gives them that.
It would not be the first, or the last time people pay for vanity. This is similar to paying for $5000 handbags where a $50 one have all the same functions.
Dont know about the rest of you guys, but my next game will be a new high quality B2P / P2P mmorpg completely without cash shop!
By the way, do you have any idea if there is such on the horizon by any chance?
Camelot Unchained is your best chance at the moment. Like you I'm done with MMORPGs until a B2P with no cash shop comes out.
For me it's not really about the money, I can afford whatever they throw at me. What it's really about is the integrity of the game and the 'fun' of the game. I can't understand why people think it's fun to buy crap in a cash shop and feel like they have accomplished something, it blows my mind. It's much more rewarding to be deep in a dungeon and discover a new sword/pet rather than buying one.
The integrity of the game is also a huge challenge, developers put their resources and investment into creating items and things to buy in a shop, rather than going through the process of designing a game where the items fit the game and make sense in context of the game. It's damaging to the game to see a level 2 character riding an end game awesome looking flying mount, it's about suspending your disbelief and that kind of stuff doesn't allow for that.
Think of it this way, B2P games focus on the journey.. it's like reading a novel and the expansions were the next book in the novel. F2P/Cash shops is like going to the end of the book and reading the last 20 pages without even starting the book. Heck, it's like going to book 5 in the Game of Thrones without reading the first 4... it just doesn't make any sense to me.
I can't understand why people think it's fun to buy crap in a cash shop and feel like they have accomplished something, it blows my mind. It's much more rewarding to be deep in a dungeon and discover a new sword/pet rather than buying one.
May be people think it is fun to play games for free?
And you are not them. Why do you think they will like the same thing as you do?
Cash shops are like global warming. First, their negative effects were largely denied. Now people are noticing them but acting like there is no way to get rid of them as if it wasn't our actions that was causing them. I refuse to be pessimistic about future of gaming which won't last long if cash shops stay popular.
I must agree with you. I think the future is bright on the other hand, because it's clear new technology will transform gaming and social interactions.
I was not being completely serious, but I think there is still a chance an mmorpg without cash shop gets released. Isnt Saga of Lucimia, for instance, going P2P completely without cash shop?
Sad isnt it that even P2P games have cash shops nowadays. Pity for all of us who like to get immersed in a virtual world. No problemo for casual fun seekers I can imagine.
Venge - No. They have stated they have not ruled out a cash shop.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I think it's a bit weird that people (paying people) are willing to put up with F2P cash shop games, while I very much doubt they would do that with any other luxury/entertainment good.
With pay to play/sub games, everyone has contributed to the support of the game. With F2P cash shop games, you are paying higher piecemeal prices so that you can both support the game and support non-paying players. If you buy a $60k BMW, you get that car for yourself. In the F2P cash shop version, you pay $100k for the same car, but someone else gets a stripped down version for free.
I don't really understand why I should want to pay for others to plays video games. Video games are not a necessity of life, if someone wants to play them, they should open their own wallet.
Next time some F2P freeloader tells you to go back to WoW in general chat, just remember, you're paying for them to be there. There is no free game, it's only free to the freeloaders who get to entertain themselves on your dime.
Venge - don't know what you are talking about. All other entertainment options have a cash shop that lets you buy extras of some kind. movies, tv , paint ball. .. I've never seen one that didn't give extras
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Next time you play an MMORPG with a Cash Shop, I want you to look at the cash shop, be creative, and think how Each One of those items could have been implemented as: Content or Incentive I.E Quest rewards, Dungeon exclusives, Challenge modes, Raiding, Special Events, ect.
You can want.
But why would i listen?
I simply just ignore cash shops. Why would i care if the items can be implemented as content or incentive? I am not a game designer. I am a gamer who is just out for some fun.
why would you care if less in game content is being made due to all the work being done for the cash shop instead? a cash shop you supposedly ignore? umm hello?
I really like the idea of this thread, where we aren't bashing anyone's game and only focusing on the Cash Shop problem. I say problem because it does shy away some gamers who flat out refuse to play a game with one inside it.
I only play f2p games on my android mobile not sure if I'll play Black Desert Online
-Vega Conflict - stopped playing times for upgrades reached 7 day cool down . started only playing once every week to do 5 mins worth of gaming before all timers kicked on - quit shortly after- paid 5 bucks of surveys from Google Survey Rewards total
-Blood brothers 2 - stopped playing because whales would purchase $300 worth of RNG super cards that destroyed my team I worked in a guild to be 3rd on server without spending a dime. you could only remain competitive with paying money on the game currency - quit
Magic Rush - got pretty far in the game but needed to pay to advance.
There's others but all have the same issues being p2w. I think i'll continue to avoid games with cash shops in hopes that trend will die and buying a game once or subscription will suffice.
Honestly I don't know why game companies don't just charge $9.00 a month instead of $15.00 I don't think I would mind as much (Hello Netflix)
Venge - don't know what you are talking about. All other entertainment options have a cash shop that lets you buy extras of some kind. movies, tv , paint ball. .. I've never seen one that didn't give extras
Buying extras is not quite the same as people getting something for free and you having to support them via the extras.
Is there a free movie theatre somewhere where I can just go see the movie for free but your ticket costs four times as much to offset the free attendees? Where can I pick up my free paintball gun?
However, you can go right at this moment and download any number of games and play them for free at the expense of paying customers.
I don't mind cash shops in f2p games, in p2p games though it's a disgrace. Mainly because the people making the costumes are almost always the people being paid from the sub.
I would say I do think about it. I was grossed out by a game announcing people were winning pretty ponies from gambling boxes. Like has the genre sunk so low? But really the low quality of questing in this genre so we're not missing much.
Next time you play an MMORPG with a Cash Shop, I want you to look at the cash shop, be creative, and think how Each One of those items could have been implemented as: Content or Incentive I.E Quest rewards, Dungeon exclusives, Challenge modes, Raiding, Special Events, ect.
Everything you can buy could be a reward. No kidding there Sherlock. Now tell us how the sun will rise tomorrow.
Look, we used to pay for games by the hour. Then the subscription model came into being. The $15.00 sub fee is reasonable and did not increase with inflation as it should have. Companies need to make money and people were bitching about the price so they added alternative methods of earning money.
$15.00 per month is dirt cheap entertainment. Compare it to going to the movies or out to dinner or a concert or a round of golf.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The main problem with cash shops - beyond the complete immersion break - is that trivial content becomes the most profitable content.
Well, in the shorter term.
But suits tend to think in shorter terms, so it's a vicious cycle.
Game releases - and it might be great.
Suits are happy it sold well - and they're happy to finance "real content" while it's doing well. But then they notice that by adding trivial content to the cash shop, they can get away with less effort.
Then interest starts dwindling - and they start focusing on the cash shop content, because that's easy and it doesn't require much of a content team.
Eventually, there's not enough revenue for a big team - so "real content" all but stops, and they start relying exclusively on trivial content in the cash shop until the game runs on life support.
It's a cycle I've been a witness to for a very long time - and it gets tiresome.
not going to believe that immersion breaking excuse. Too weak.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
OP has it backwards, Devs increasingly seek more content to pull out and put into a cash shop to encourage more people to pay, (minnows) and some people to pay more. (whales and fish)
I definitely prefer the days of forced grouping and monetization (subs) models, was easier to budget for.
nah ..it is much easier to play free, and leave whenever (or if) there is a pay wall.
No budgeting is needed.
Well my mother always taught me to pay my own way, freeloading isn't my style.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sad isnt it that even P2P games have cash shops nowadays. Pity for all of us who like to get immersed in a virtual world. No problemo for casual fun seekers I can imagine.
Not at all. I do not mind cash shop at all. It is no more or less distracting than a menu or an option for graphics setting, and I can ignore it completely.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
OP has it backwards, Devs increasingly seek more content to pull out and put into a cash shop to encourage more people to pay, (minnows) and some people to pay more. (whales and fish)
I definitely prefer the days of forced grouping and monetization (subs) models, was easier to budget for.
nah ..it is much easier to play free, and leave whenever (or if) there is a pay wall.
No budgeting is needed.
Well my mother always taught me to pay myown way, freeloading isn't my style.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I can deal with cash shops. The thing I think is cheating players most however is the "Mystery Box" type items that they sell with exclusive content inside that you'll probably only get if you spend $50+ and even then some people never do get no matter how much they spend because it's RNG.
Now if I were to build an MMO, I would charge a box price, and then a $0.10/hour play-fee (sub in other words) which would for a large majority of people end up being a bit less than the normal $15 per month sub. This would be charged on the hour, so say someone who played 1:59 would only be charged $0.10, and only if he played that 1 more minute would he be charged $0.20.
Anyways, that's the model I'd use, AND NO RNG CASH SHOP BOXES!!!!
Next time you play an MMORPG with a Cash Shop, I want you to look at the cash shop, be creative, and think how Each One of those items could have been implemented as: Content or Incentive I.E Quest rewards, Dungeon exclusives, Challenge modes, Raiding, Special Events, ect.
I don't see a problem with a cash shop if it's the game's only sustainable source of income beyond the initial sale, to ensure that they can afford to maintain servers and keep developing the game.
What I do have a problem with is greedy companies like Blizzard/Activision who charge a sub, have a cash shop and charge you for every expansion. Until people stop feeding their cash cow, nothing will change about their greed.
I'm happy to invest the equivalent of a monthly sub into a cash shop (as I would pay a monthly sub for a game that game me regular new content) in return for ongoing game development and would rather that than get no new content e.g. like Warcraft lol.
Comments
The only thing i care about when i look at cash shop is if the items are giving unfair advantage to the buyer or are they simply comsetic and non game impacting.
It would not be the first, or the last time people pay for vanity. This is similar to paying for $5000 handbags where a $50 one have all the same functions.
For me it's not really about the money, I can afford whatever they throw at me. What it's really about is the integrity of the game and the 'fun' of the game. I can't understand why people think it's fun to buy crap in a cash shop and feel like they have accomplished something, it blows my mind. It's much more rewarding to be deep in a dungeon and discover a new sword/pet rather than buying one.
The integrity of the game is also a huge challenge, developers put their resources and investment into creating items and things to buy in a shop, rather than going through the process of designing a game where the items fit the game and make sense in context of the game. It's damaging to the game to see a level 2 character riding an end game awesome looking flying mount, it's about suspending your disbelief and that kind of stuff doesn't allow for that.
Think of it this way, B2P games focus on the journey.. it's like reading a novel and the expansions were the next book in the novel. F2P/Cash shops is like going to the end of the book and reading the last 20 pages without even starting the book. Heck, it's like going to book 5 in the Game of Thrones without reading the first 4... it just doesn't make any sense to me.
And you are not them. Why do you think they will like the same thing as you do?
I really like the idea of this thread, where we aren't bashing anyone's game and only focusing on the Cash Shop problem. I say problem because it does shy away some gamers who flat out refuse to play a game with one inside it.
I only play f2p games on my android mobile not sure if I'll play Black Desert Online
-Vega Conflict - stopped playing times for upgrades reached 7 day cool down . started only playing once every week to do 5 mins worth of gaming before all timers kicked on - quit shortly after- paid 5 bucks of surveys from Google Survey Rewards total
-Blood brothers 2 - stopped playing because whales would purchase $300 worth of RNG super cards that destroyed my team I worked in a guild to be 3rd on server without spending a dime. you could only remain competitive with paying money on the game currency - quit
Magic Rush - got pretty far in the game but needed to pay to advance.
There's others but all have the same issues being p2w. I think i'll continue to avoid games with cash shops in hopes that trend will die and buying a game once or subscription will suffice.
Honestly I don't know why game companies don't just charge $9.00 a month instead of $15.00 I don't think I would mind as much (Hello Netflix)
-my own opinion
Hope I don't get banned for a politics joke but couldn't resist @Rusque
Democrat - F2P model - others pay for non payers to play a game.
Republican - subscription - everyone pays to play the game.
Independent - Wants transgender avatars
Tea Party - Wants every game to go back to Vanilla (insert game title here)
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Is there a free movie theatre somewhere where I can just go see the movie for free but your ticket costs four times as much to offset the free attendees? Where can I pick up my free paintball gun?
However, you can go right at this moment and download any number of games and play them for free at the expense of paying customers.
Everything you can buy could be a reward. No kidding there Sherlock. Now tell us how the sun will rise tomorrow.
Look, we used to pay for games by the hour. Then the subscription model came into being. The $15.00 sub fee is reasonable and did not increase with inflation as it should have. Companies need to make money and people were bitching about the price so they added alternative methods of earning money.
$15.00 per month is dirt cheap entertainment. Compare it to going to the movies or out to dinner or a concert or a round of golf.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
And its all about the style.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Which is probably true.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
+1 Way too many freeloaders these days.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Anyways, that's the model I'd use, AND NO RNG CASH SHOP BOXES!!!!
What I do have a problem with is greedy companies like Blizzard/Activision who charge a sub, have a cash shop and charge you for every expansion. Until people stop feeding their cash cow, nothing will change about their greed.
I'm happy to invest the equivalent of a monthly sub into a cash shop (as I would pay a monthly sub for a game that game me regular new content) in return for ongoing game development and would rather that than get no new content e.g. like Warcraft lol.