It wasn't Google, it was Android. The fact that Google bought them has nothing to do with the market
that has got to be the biggest straw man i have ever seen.
so you are saying Valve spending Billions on Linux for gaming is not relevant or the same until Valve buys a company that uses Linux
your grasping for straws and doing a terrible job at it might add
I'm not saying that Vulkan won't be a game changer. What I'm saying is that Vulkan isn't going to be what shifts the tide of the OS wars.
You quoted Google as owning the smartphone OS market. This would, actually, be much more significant than Vulkan. Google has been building themselves up to offer enterprise solutions for years now. If Linux is to go mainstream, it will be Google who actually does it, and it will be through tight integration with Android. If that does happen, then you can be sure Google will look at tighter integration with Google Play, similar to the Windows Store.
Essentially, the investment into Vulkan has to do more with the imminent threat presented by competition than it does having an interest in promoting gaming on Linux. If Valve promotes Windows, the Windows Store presents a massive threat. So they develop away from that.
Either way, if you feel like billions is relevant in gaming, you're kidding yourself. I remember Microsoft lost billions (multiple billions) on their initial XBox launch, never mind how much was lost thereafter in gaining a foothold in the console market. The Desktop OS market is quite a bit larger and will, likely, require tens of billions of dollars to even dent. Plus, Google is already on its way there. However, even that has been a decade in the making and it will probably be another decade before we see anything significant at all there. The reality is that Valve doesn't have the money to win that fight, whether it be console or OS market.
It wasn't Google, it was Android. The fact that Google bought them has nothing to do with the market
that has got to be the biggest straw man i have ever seen.
so you are saying Valve spending Billions on Linux for gaming is not relevant or the same until Valve buys a company that uses Linux
your grasping for straws and doing a terrible job at it might add
I'm not saying that Vulkan won't be a game changer. What I'm saying is that Vulkan isn't going to be what shifts the tide of the OS wars.
You quoted Google as owning the smartphone OS market. This would, actually, be much more significant than Vulkan. Google has been building themselves up to offer enterprise solutions for years now. If Linux is to go mainstream, it will be Google who actually does it, and it will be through tight integration with Android. If that does happen, then you can be sure Google will look at tighter integration with Google Play, similar to the Windows Store.
Essentially, the investment into Vulkan has to do more with the imminent threat presented by competition than it does having an interest in promoting gaming on Linux. If Valve promotes Windows, the Windows Store presents a massive threat. So they develop away from that.
Either way, if you feel like billions is relevant in gaming, you're kidding yourself. I remember Microsoft lost billions (multiple billions) on their initial XBox launch, never mind how much was lost thereafter in gaining a foothold in the console market. The Desktop OS market is quite a bit larger and will, likely, require tens of billions of dollars to even dent. Plus, Google is already on its way there. However, even that has been a decade in the making and it will probably be another decade before we see anything significant at all there. The reality is that Valve doesn't have the money to win that fight, whether it be console or OS market.
I am not suggesting Linux for gaming will take over the gaming industry like Googles Android did for Phones. I actually said exactly that once already. what I am saying is
Timeline 1st No company has really ever been even slightly dedicated to fixing Linux for gaming 2nd Gabe says Valves want to double down on Linux for gaming 3rd Valve starts to work with Kronus group on OpenGL the first business to do so. 4th Steam games that have a Linux version jump from 198 to 1900 in a few years. 5th-For the first time in the history of OpenGL, an OpenGL is up and running while the DX version of the same generation is 'broken' on new cards
also..when it comes to gaming industry Valve is bigger than Microsoft. Microsoft is not going to divert its SharePoint projects into its gaming projects
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It wasn't Google, it was Android. The fact that Google bought them has nothing to do with the market
that has got to be the biggest straw man i have ever seen.
so you are saying Valve spending Billions on Linux for gaming is not relevant or the same until Valve buys a company that uses Linux
your grasping for straws and doing a terrible job at it might add
I'm not saying that Vulkan won't be a game changer. What I'm saying is that Vulkan isn't going to be what shifts the tide of the OS wars.
You quoted Google as owning the smartphone OS market. This would, actually, be much more significant than Vulkan. Google has been building themselves up to offer enterprise solutions for years now. If Linux is to go mainstream, it will be Google who actually does it, and it will be through tight integration with Android. If that does happen, then you can be sure Google will look at tighter integration with Google Play, similar to the Windows Store.
Essentially, the investment into Vulkan has to do more with the imminent threat presented by competition than it does having an interest in promoting gaming on Linux. If Valve promotes Windows, the Windows Store presents a massive threat. So they develop away from that.
Either way, if you feel like billions is relevant in gaming, you're kidding yourself. I remember Microsoft lost billions (multiple billions) on their initial XBox launch, never mind how much was lost thereafter in gaining a foothold in the console market. The Desktop OS market is quite a bit larger and will, likely, require tens of billions of dollars to even dent. Plus, Google is already on its way there. However, even that has been a decade in the making and it will probably be another decade before we see anything significant at all there. The reality is that Valve doesn't have the money to win that fight, whether it be console or OS market.
I am not suggesting Linux for gaming will take over the gaming industry like Googles Android did for Phones. I actually said exactly that once already. what I am saying is
Timeline 1st No company has really ever been even slightly dedicated to fixing Linux for gaming 2nd Gabe says Valves want to double down on Linux for gaming 3rd Valve starts to work with Kronus group on OpenGL the first business to do so. 4th Steam games that have a Linux version jump from 198 to 1900 in a few years. 5th-For the first time in the history of OpenGL, an OpenGL is up and running while the DX version of the same generation is 'broken' on new cards
also..when it comes to gaming industry Valve is bigger than Microsoft. Microsoft is not going to divert its SharePoint projects into its gaming projects
Ok, yeah, I can agree that Vulkan is going to change Linux gaming, for sure. I got caught up in the whole usurping of Microsoft thing. I'll also agree with regards to Microsoft. They aren't going to dilute their core product groups to pursue gaming. However, what they do have is, actually, bigger than what Valve has. The difference is that MS has consoles and valve has PCs. However, the revenue difference for their respective gaming platforms, Microsoft makes a multitude of 10 times what valve does. Honestly, the biggest thing Valve has going for them is install-base, existing libraries, and the fact that people generally dislike Microsoft.
It wasn't Google, it was Android. The fact that Google bought them has nothing to do with the market
that has got to be the biggest straw man i have ever seen.
so you are saying Valve spending Billions on Linux for gaming is not relevant or the same until Valve buys a company that uses Linux
your grasping for straws and doing a terrible job at it might add
I'm not saying that Vulkan won't be a game changer. What I'm saying is that Vulkan isn't going to be what shifts the tide of the OS wars.
You quoted Google as owning the smartphone OS market. This would, actually, be much more significant than Vulkan. Google has been building themselves up to offer enterprise solutions for years now. If Linux is to go mainstream, it will be Google who actually does it, and it will be through tight integration with Android. If that does happen, then you can be sure Google will look at tighter integration with Google Play, similar to the Windows Store.
Essentially, the investment into Vulkan has to do more with the imminent threat presented by competition than it does having an interest in promoting gaming on Linux. If Valve promotes Windows, the Windows Store presents a massive threat. So they develop away from that.
Either way, if you feel like billions is relevant in gaming, you're kidding yourself. I remember Microsoft lost billions (multiple billions) on their initial XBox launch, never mind how much was lost thereafter in gaining a foothold in the console market. The Desktop OS market is quite a bit larger and will, likely, require tens of billions of dollars to even dent. Plus, Google is already on its way there. However, even that has been a decade in the making and it will probably be another decade before we see anything significant at all there. The reality is that Valve doesn't have the money to win that fight, whether it be console or OS market.
I am not suggesting Linux for gaming will take over the gaming industry like Googles Android did for Phones. I actually said exactly that once already. what I am saying is
Timeline 1st No company has really ever been even slightly dedicated to fixing Linux for gaming 2nd Gabe says Valves want to double down on Linux for gaming 3rd Valve starts to work with Kronus group on OpenGL the first business to do so. 4th Steam games that have a Linux version jump from 198 to 1900 in a few years. 5th-For the first time in the history of OpenGL, an OpenGL is up and running while the DX version of the same generation is 'broken' on new cards
also..when it comes to gaming industry Valve is bigger than Microsoft. Microsoft is not going to divert its SharePoint projects into its gaming projects
Ok, as its been previously mentioned Linux has never had a unified front for gaming due to everyone and their dog thinking they could do a better job and rushing off to develop their own flavor. Not to mention still working with window's cranky bullshit in linux when it comes to gaming, and having to reverse engineer most of that due to windows not being open source.
Now that there is a dedicated motivator behind the project, IE Gabe, armed with the millions he's looted from our wallets with his bloody, but great value, steam sales, this just might be what the OS needs to finally "get its shit together" when it comes to gaming. If they work with video card manufactures and game makers, which I'm sure Gabe can do well, and give the OS away for free, focusing on making a profit from custom steam OS boxes, and game sales, they could very easily take a big bite out of windows bottom line. And finally free gaming from the mephitic tyranny that is microsoft.
maybe this will help
amount of money spend into improving linux around gaming
zero = very small barely measurable so maybe some but nothing like millions let alone billions billions = I actually dont know the amount but Gabe has said they are 'doubling down' on linux so I assume its a F ton.
do we have any other example in other industries of this pattern? yes...Google
1991 zero 1992 zero 1993 zero 1994 zero 1995 zero 1996 zero 1997 zero 1998 zero 1999 zero 2000 zero 2001 zero 2003 zero 2004 zero 2005 zero 2006 zero 2007 zero 2008 zero 2009 zero 2011 zero 2012 zero 2013 billions 2014 billions 2015 billions 2016 billions
Games that work on Linux in Steam 2011 198 2016 1900
'everyone and his dog' prior to Valve getting involved where about as important as the cash in my wallet
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Does vulkan work in windows 7 to ? If not i aint intrested. Tried windows 10 looked okey. (better then the 8.1 i was trying) Went to the kitchen and got some coffee. Trrring triing trinng. WTF is that ? Got a skype call. i think FTF i just instaled it i have no skype. I could pick up but could not talk back until i got the "Skype" from the microsoft store. Uninstaled and reinstalled windows 7 ult.
Does vulkan work in windows 7 to ? If not i aint intrested. Tried windows 10 looked okey. (better then the 8.1 i was trying) Went to the kitchen and got some coffee. Trrring triing trinng. WTF is that ? Got a skype call. i think FTF i just instaled it i have no skype. I could pick up but could not talk back until i got the "Skype" from the microsoft store. Uninstaled and reinstalled windows 7 ult.
i just checked. yes it does support win 7
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It wasn't Google, it was Android. The fact that Google bought them has nothing to do with the market
that has got to be the biggest straw man i have ever seen.
so you are saying Valve spending Billions on Linux for gaming is not relevant or the same until Valve buys a company that uses Linux
your grasping for straws and doing a terrible job at it might add
I'm not saying that Vulkan won't be a game changer. What I'm saying is that Vulkan isn't going to be what shifts the tide of the OS wars.
You quoted Google as owning the smartphone OS market. This would, actually, be much more significant than Vulkan. Google has been building themselves up to offer enterprise solutions for years now. If Linux is to go mainstream, it will be Google who actually does it, and it will be through tight integration with Android. If that does happen, then you can be sure Google will look at tighter integration with Google Play, similar to the Windows Store.
Essentially, the investment into Vulkan has to do more with the imminent threat presented by competition than it does having an interest in promoting gaming on Linux. If Valve promotes Windows, the Windows Store presents a massive threat. So they develop away from that.
Either way, if you feel like billions is relevant in gaming, you're kidding yourself. I remember Microsoft lost billions (multiple billions) on their initial XBox launch, never mind how much was lost thereafter in gaining a foothold in the console market. The Desktop OS market is quite a bit larger and will, likely, require tens of billions of dollars to even dent. Plus, Google is already on its way there. However, even that has been a decade in the making and it will probably be another decade before we see anything significant at all there. The reality is that Valve doesn't have the money to win that fight, whether it be console or OS market.
I am not suggesting Linux for gaming will take over the gaming industry like Googles Android did for Phones. I actually said exactly that once already. what I am saying is
Timeline 1st No company has really ever been even slightly dedicated to fixing Linux for gaming 2nd Gabe says Valves want to double down on Linux for gaming 3rd Valve starts to work with Kronus group on OpenGL the first business to do so. 4th Steam games that have a Linux version jump from 198 to 1900 in a few years. 5th-For the first time in the history of OpenGL, an OpenGL is up and running while the DX version of the same generation is 'broken' on new cards
also..when it comes to gaming industry Valve is bigger than Microsoft. Microsoft is not going to divert its SharePoint projects into its gaming projects
Ok, as its been previously mentioned Linux has never had a unified front for gaming due to everyone and their dog thinking they could do a better job and rushing off to develop their own flavor. Not to mention still working with window's cranky bullshit in linux when it comes to gaming, and having to reverse engineer most of that due to windows not being open source.
Now that there is a dedicated motivator behind the project, IE Gabe, armed with the millions he's looted from our wallets with his bloody, but great value, steam sales, this just might be what the OS needs to finally "get its shit together" when it comes to gaming. If they work with video card manufactures and game makers, which I'm sure Gabe can do well, and give the OS away for free, focusing on making a profit from custom steam OS boxes, and game sales, they could very easily take a big bite out of windows bottom line. And finally free gaming from the mephitic tyranny that is microsoft.
2012 zero 2013 billions 2014 billions 2015 billions 2016 billions
Games that work on Linux in Steam 2011 198 2016 1900
'everyone and his dog' prior to Valve getting involved where about as important as the cash in my wallet
I can appreciate the dramatic illustration, but I don't know if "billions" is accurate. Valve doesn't generate enough revenue to be throwing around "billions", but I could be wrong. Revenues in 2015 were estimated at $3 billion. Then you'd take 60 or 70% of that right off the top as the publisher cut. So we're doing to $1 billion, then you've got salaries, wages, etc., etc. However, I suppose revenues from DOTA2, etc. would be all Valves, so who knows. They're a private company, so you can really only speculate. However, I think that the investment is slightly exaggerated.
Also, it should be noted that another major reason for the increase in games available on Linux has as much to do with ease of portability. Most engines allow for much easier porting of games cross-platform than they once did.
I would love to see Vulkan become a level competitor to DirectX 12 but I feel Microsoft culture is just too entrenched for that to happen any time soon. I certainly can't see gamers switching to Linux en masse, it's just not built in a way that is stable and friendly enough to maintain for the majority of people (this is from someone that uses FreeBSD for their non-gaming desktop).
It's a shame because competition breeds innovation and Microsoft desparately needs competition in the desktop space, some of the crap they're pulling with Windows 10 is awful but people lap it up because "Oooh free..."
Vulkan is going to be good all around. Good for all platforms.
one thing seanmcad has wrong is the fact that doom doesn't run in directx 12 what so ever. So please keep things factual sean. So if and when they add dx 12 support to doom will see how it runs then.
so your saying DX12 doesnt run at all on a 1080GTX but Vulkan does.
has that ever happened in the history of OpenGL I wonder. If not does anyone find it interesting that it also happens to be the first OpenGL project in which Valve has been pouring in money by the truck load?
How did you get that out of my post? Doom doesn't support dx12. Dx12 does run on the 1080
I ask again
when in History has OpenGL ever been first to a new generation of card while DX is still not even working on said card?
I dont think ever.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Games that work on Linux in Steam 2011 198 2016 1900
'everyone and his dog' prior to Valve getting involved where about as important as the cash in my wallet
Valve didn't even have a Steam client for Linux in 2011. It wasn't until mid 2012 that they launched a client. In fact in 2011 they told Linux gamers they had no plans at that point to make a Linux client. .
I have corrected it
2012 198 2016 1900
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Gabe Newell's - The Future of Gaming talk was 2013.
A better title for the talk might have been "How the Future of Gaming could look and how it will be much better for Valve if it does".
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
And so I wonder about Valve commitment to Steam OS. Companies do abandon things that don't come to pass. And maybe they are going to focus on their "mobile" apps - which have been downloaded tens of millions of times. Whether that will prove profitable is another matter - they face many of the same issues they face in the PC game space: publishers selling direct (Origin etc.), multiple competitors. At least they have a presence though - unlike consoles.
I dont understand your point.
Yes of course I said just last week that the sales of Steam hasnt taken off.
why?
BECAUSE
OF
VULKAN
Vulkan is a OpenGL project that is co-created with Valve. In fact it is the cornerstone of all the Linux work they are doing.
People held off buying Steam Machines because they were waiting for Vulkan? Really?
Many delays since 2013. Poor sales since launch. Some Steam Machines now discontinued; others now available with Win10. The total lack of news at GDC 2016. Businesses follow money. And so I wonder whether Valve's push for Steam Machines is what it was back when Gabe spoke in 2013. Businesses change tack all the time.
Gabe Newell's - The Future of Gaming talk was 2013.
A better title for the talk might have been "How the Future of Gaming could look and how it will be much better for Valve if it does".
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
And so I wonder about Valve commitment to Steam OS. Companies do abandon things that don't come to pass. And maybe they are going to focus on their "mobile" apps - which have been downloaded tens of millions of times. Whether that will prove profitable is another matter - they face many of the same issues they face in the PC game space: publishers selling direct (Origin etc.), multiple competitors. At least they have a presence though - unlike consoles.
I dont understand your point.
Yes of course I said just last week that the sales of Steam hasnt taken off.
why?
BECAUSE
OF
VULKAN
Vulkan is a OpenGL project that is co-created with Valve. In fact it is the cornerstone of all the Linux work they are doing.
People held off buying Steam Machines because they were waiting for Vulkan? Really?
Many delays since 2013. Poor sales since launch. Some Steam Machines now discontinued; others now available with Win10. The total lack of news at GDC 2016. Businesses follow money. And so I wonder whether Valve's push for Steam Machines is what it was back when Gabe spoke in 2013. Businesses change tack all the time.
no.....
people didnt buy steam machines because they were slow and as a result got bad reviews which were deserved. consumers dont know WHY its slow its just slow
the reason is (I hope) because of vulkan but consumers dont know that.
They certiantly did not buy them because they could build a PC cheaper than a pre-buit gaming machine which is an industry that has done just fine for at least a decade.
REMINDER: years ago Valve got Left 4 Dead to perform better on Linux then it did on Windows. They then took that work to Kronos Group (I would assume anyway). So the expectation was that Steam Machines would be attractive because you could get better performance from a Steam Machine then you could a same spec PC. However this did not happen, why? Vulkan.
Does the average consumer know all this? no. But if you were to present to them a 'console' that performs better than a same priced PC or same priced Console and has all the game and has internet access for free that the consumer would be interested.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Vulkan is going to be good all around. Good for all platforms.
one thing seanmcad has wrong is the fact that doom doesn't run in directx 12 what so ever. So please keep things factual sean. So if and when they add dx 12 support to doom will see how it runs then.
so your saying DX12 doesnt run at all on a 1080GTX but Vulkan does.
has that ever happened in the history of OpenGL I wonder. If not does anyone find it interesting that it also happens to be the first OpenGL project in which Valve has been pouring in money by the truck load?
How did you get that out of my post? Doom doesn't support dx12. Dx12 does run on the 1080
I ask again
when in History has OpenGL ever been first to a new generation of card while DX is still not even working on said card?
I dont think ever.
Wait you are saying that the 1080 GTX doesn't support DirectX12 ? I think you are greatly misinformed my friend. The 1080 runs DX12 just fine.
Vulkan is going to be good all around. Good for all platforms.
one thing seanmcad has wrong is the fact that doom doesn't run in directx 12 what so ever. So please keep things factual sean. So if and when they add dx 12 support to doom will see how it runs then.
so your saying DX12 doesnt run at all on a 1080GTX but Vulkan does.
has that ever happened in the history of OpenGL I wonder. If not does anyone find it interesting that it also happens to be the first OpenGL project in which Valve has been pouring in money by the truck load?
How did you get that out of my post? Doom doesn't support dx12. Dx12 does run on the 1080
I ask again
when in History has OpenGL ever been first to a new generation of card while DX is still not even working on said card?
I dont think ever.
Wait you are saying that the 1080 GTX doesn't support DirectX12 ? I think you are greatly misinformed my friend. The 1080 runs DX12 just fine.
god damit
no..
it currently doesnt work on 1080 but it will
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Gabe Newell's - The Future of Gaming talk was 2013.
A better title for the talk might have been "How the Future of Gaming could look and how it will be much better for Valve if it does".
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
And so I wonder about Valve commitment to Steam OS. Companies do abandon things that don't come to pass. And maybe they are going to focus on their "mobile" apps - which have been downloaded tens of millions of times. Whether that will prove profitable is another matter - they face many of the same issues they face in the PC game space: publishers selling direct (Origin etc.), multiple competitors. At least they have a presence though - unlike consoles.
I dont understand your point.
Yes of course I said just last week that the sales of Steam hasnt taken off.
why?
BECAUSE
OF
VULKAN
Vulkan is a OpenGL project that is co-created with Valve. In fact it is the cornerstone of all the Linux work they are doing.
People held off buying Steam Machines because they were waiting for Vulkan? Really?
Many delays since 2013. Poor sales since launch. Some Steam Machines now discontinued; others now available with Win10. The total lack of news at GDC 2016. Businesses follow money. And so I wonder whether Valve's push for Steam Machines is what it was back when Gabe spoke in 2013. Businesses change tack all the time.
Does the average consumer know all this? no. But if you were to present to them a 'console' that performs better than a same priced PC or same priced Console and has all the game and has internet access for free that the consumer would be interested.
Exactly, if there was price parity with consoles..... I'm pretty sure that's what we've been saying. Price parity with PCs doesn't matter right now since PCs perform additional functions in addition to gaming. So it's really just the console that they need to aim for to be successful.
Gabe Newell's - The Future of Gaming talk was 2013.
A better title for the talk might have been "How the Future of Gaming could look and how it will be much better for Valve if it does".
However as you OP ( SEANMCAD ) said last week - in the other thread you started - the sale of Steam Machines hasn't taken off.
And so I wonder about Valve commitment to Steam OS. Companies do abandon things that don't come to pass. And maybe they are going to focus on their "mobile" apps - which have been downloaded tens of millions of times. Whether that will prove profitable is another matter - they face many of the same issues they face in the PC game space: publishers selling direct (Origin etc.), multiple competitors. At least they have a presence though - unlike consoles.
I dont understand your point.
Yes of course I said just last week that the sales of Steam hasnt taken off.
why?
BECAUSE
OF
VULKAN
Vulkan is a OpenGL project that is co-created with Valve. In fact it is the cornerstone of all the Linux work they are doing.
People held off buying Steam Machines because they were waiting for Vulkan? Really?
Many delays since 2013. Poor sales since launch. Some Steam Machines now discontinued; others now available with Win10. The total lack of news at GDC 2016. Businesses follow money. And so I wonder whether Valve's push for Steam Machines is what it was back when Gabe spoke in 2013. Businesses change tack all the time.
Does the average consumer know all this? no. But if you were to present to them a 'console' that performs better than a same priced PC or same priced Console and has all the game and has internet access for free that the consumer would be interested.
Exactly, if there was price parity with consoles..... I'm pretty sure that's what we've been saying. Price parity with PCs doesn't matter right now since PCs perform additional functions in addition to gaming. So it's really just the console that they need to aim for to be successful.
no that is NOT what I am saying
quote: But if you were to present to them a 'console' that performs better than a same priced PC OR same priced Console and has all the game and has internet access for free that the consumer would be interested.
its not an exclusive statement, its an inclusive statement and as such...matters and makes your point NOT the same
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
so your saying DX12 doesnt run at all on a 1080GTX but Vulkan does.
has that ever happened in the history of OpenGL I wonder. If not does anyone find it interesting that it also happens to be the first OpenGL project in which Valve has been pouring in money by the truck load?
How did you get that out of my post? Doom doesn't support dx12. Dx12 does run on the 1080
I ask again
when in History has OpenGL ever been first to a new generation of card while DX is still not even working on said card?
I dont think ever.
Wait you are saying that the 1080 GTX doesn't support DirectX12 ? I think you are greatly misinformed my friend. The 1080 runs DX12 just fine.
god damit no.. it currently doesnt work on 1080 but it will
Vulkan is going to be good all around. Good for all platforms.
one thing seanmcad has wrong is the fact that doom doesn't run in directx 12 what so ever. So please keep things factual sean. So if and when they add dx 12 support to doom will see how it runs then.
so your saying DX12 doesnt run at all on a 1080GTX but Vulkan does.
has that ever happened in the history of OpenGL I wonder. If not does anyone find it interesting that it also happens to be the first OpenGL project in which Valve has been pouring in money by the truck load?
How did you get that out of my post? Doom doesn't support dx12. Dx12 does run on the 1080
I ask again
when in History has OpenGL ever been first to a new generation of card while DX is still not even working on said card?
I dont think ever.
Wait you are saying that the 1080 GTX doesn't support DirectX12 ? I think you are greatly misinformed my friend. The 1080 runs DX12 just fine.
god damit
no..
it currently doesnt work on 1080 but it will
You stand corrected. We have been running benches with the 1080 in DirectX 12 without any problems at all.
So with Valve, Vulkan is a huge deal. They have invested a lot of time and energy into helping it out because they see Vulkan as a way to help Linux gaming by addressing its (Linux) main issue which is performance. If the performance of a game on Linux can be as good as Windows for the same spec machine it could make Steam Machines much more attractive (actually viable at all). So although getting Vulkan to perform well is for many a barely interesting story for others its HUGE.
So with that and given the huge investment and secretive nature of Valves best projects (aka Vive). Is there much more to the story of Doom performing well with Vulkan but being Jacked with DX12? what is happening behind the scenes with that or is it simply a techy thing that will be sorted out soon enough and not related to business models at all.
There's plenty of Vulkan reviews and comparisons on the internet.
Apparently it does outperform DX12 in many tests. Running on Windows.
So Vulkan might possibly become the preferred gfx API in the future. Running on Windows.
So to make Valve's dream come true, Vulkan will have to perform better on Linux than it does on Windows. Consistently.
It's waaay too early to make that call, nVidia and AMD haven't had time yet to properly optimise their drivers. And believe me, they will be pulling out all the stops to get the best possible results on Windows. Because that's where the vast majority of their products are being used...
There's plenty of Vulkan reviews and comparisons on the internet.
Apparently it does outperform DX12 in many tests. Running on Windows.
So Vulkan might possibly become the preferred gfx API in the future. Running on Windows.
So to make Valve's dream come true, Vulkan will have to perform better on Linux than it does on Windows. Consistently.
It's waaay too early to make that call, nVidia and AMD haven't had time yet to properly optimise their drivers. And believe me, they will be pulling out all the stops to get the best possible results on Windows. Because that's where the vast majority of their products are being used...
yes.. that will be the litmus test for everything I agree.
as a pre-cursor of curiosity has OpenGL ever in its history out performed the same generation of DirectX. If not, is it just simply by chance or does it have anything at all to do with Valves help at kronos group. That is the question I am suggesting
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
You stand corrected. We have been running benches with the 1080 in DirectX 12 without any problems at all.
Finally!
I stand correct on something factual for a change/
thank you
now...what is the Story regarding Doom?
I am not sure what the story is behind Doom. I believe that is because that designed and made the Id Tech 6 engine OpenGL based with a Vulkan render added in there and some basic DirectX 11 support?
That is about all I can get from wiki on Id Tech 6. Why they choose to not support DirectX 12 is anyone's guess I imagine
You stand corrected. We have been running benches with the 1080 in DirectX 12 without any problems at all.
Finally!
I stand correct on something factual for a change/
thank you
now...what is the Story regarding Doom?
I am not sure what the story is behind Doom. I believe that is because that designed and made the Id Tech 6 engine OpenGL based with a Vulkan render added in there and some basic DirectX 11 support?
That is about all I can get from wiki on Id Tech 6. Why they choose to not support DirectX 12 is anyone's guess I imagine
hmm fair enough . stood corrected
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
There's plenty of Vulkan reviews and comparisons on the internet.
Apparently it does outperform DX12 in many tests. Running on Windows.
So Vulkan might possibly become the preferred gfx API in the future. Running on Windows.
So to make Valve's dream come true, Vulkan will have to perform better on Linux than it does on Windows. Consistently.
It's waaay too early to make that call, nVidia and AMD haven't had time yet to properly optimise their drivers. And believe me, they will be pulling out all the stops to get the best possible results on Windows. Because that's where the vast majority of their products are being used...
yes.. that will be the litmus test for everything I agree.
as a pre-cursor of curiosity has OpenGL ever in its history out performed the same generation of DirectX. If not, is it just simply by chance or does it have anything at all to do with Valves help at kronos group. That is the question I am suggesting
What on earth has given you the impression that Valve is somehow an instrumental member of the Khronos Group ?
You do realise that there's 120 members (corporations) in that consortium ?
Almost everyone who's anyone in the tech business is part of the Khronos Group. Even Microsoft is a contributor.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that Valve is so important in the group ? They seem somewhat out of their depth in that collection of tech heavy-hitters. Strange that they are not even among the Promoters (steering comittee) for the group...
Comments
I'm not saying that Vulkan won't be a game changer. What I'm saying is that Vulkan isn't going to be what shifts the tide of the OS wars.
You quoted Google as owning the smartphone OS market. This would, actually, be much more significant than Vulkan. Google has been building themselves up to offer enterprise solutions for years now. If Linux is to go mainstream, it will be Google who actually does it, and it will be through tight integration with Android. If that does happen, then you can be sure Google will look at tighter integration with Google Play, similar to the Windows Store.
Essentially, the investment into Vulkan has to do more with the imminent threat presented by competition than it does having an interest in promoting gaming on Linux. If Valve promotes Windows, the Windows Store presents a massive threat. So they develop away from that.
Either way, if you feel like billions is relevant in gaming, you're kidding yourself. I remember Microsoft lost billions (multiple billions) on their initial XBox launch, never mind how much was lost thereafter in gaining a foothold in the console market. The Desktop OS market is quite a bit larger and will, likely, require tens of billions of dollars to even dent. Plus, Google is already on its way there. However, even that has been a decade in the making and it will probably be another decade before we see anything significant at all there. The reality is that Valve doesn't have the money to win that fight, whether it be console or OS market.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Timeline
1st No company has really ever been even slightly dedicated to fixing Linux for gaming
2nd Gabe says Valves want to double down on Linux for gaming
3rd Valve starts to work with Kronus group on OpenGL the first business to do so.
4th Steam games that have a Linux version jump from 198 to 1900 in a few years.
5th-For the first time in the history of OpenGL, an OpenGL is up and running while the DX version of the same generation is 'broken' on new cards
also..when it comes to gaming industry Valve is bigger than Microsoft. Microsoft is not going to divert its SharePoint projects into its gaming projects
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Ok, yeah, I can agree that Vulkan is going to change Linux gaming, for sure. I got caught up in the whole usurping of Microsoft thing. I'll also agree with regards to Microsoft. They aren't going to dilute their core product groups to pursue gaming. However, what they do have is, actually, bigger than what Valve has. The difference is that MS has consoles and valve has PCs. However, the revenue difference for their respective gaming platforms, Microsoft makes a multitude of 10 times what valve does. Honestly, the biggest thing Valve has going for them is install-base, existing libraries, and the fact that people generally dislike Microsoft.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
amount of money spend into improving linux around gaming
zero = very small barely measurable so maybe some but nothing like millions let alone billions
billions = I actually dont know the amount but Gabe has said they are 'doubling down' on linux so I assume its a F ton.
do we have any other example in other industries of this pattern? yes...Google
1991 zero
1992 zero
1993 zero
1994 zero
1995 zero
1996 zero
1997 zero
1998 zero
1999 zero
2000 zero
2001 zero
2003 zero
2004 zero
2005 zero
2006 zero
2007 zero
2008 zero
2009 zero
2011 zero
2012 zero
2013 billions
2014 billions
2015 billions
2016 billions
Games that work on Linux in Steam
2011 198
2016 1900
'everyone and his dog' prior to Valve getting involved where about as important as the cash in my wallet
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
If not i aint intrested.
Tried windows 10 looked okey. (better then the 8.1 i was trying)
Went to the kitchen and got some coffee.
Trrring triing trinng. WTF is that ?
Got a skype call. i think FTF i just instaled it i have no skype.
I could pick up but could not talk back until i got the "Skype" from the microsoft store.
Uninstaled and reinstalled windows 7 ult.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I can appreciate the dramatic illustration, but I don't know if "billions" is accurate. Valve doesn't generate enough revenue to be throwing around "billions", but I could be wrong. Revenues in 2015 were estimated at $3 billion. Then you'd take 60 or 70% of that right off the top as the publisher cut. So we're doing to $1 billion, then you've got salaries, wages, etc., etc. However, I suppose revenues from DOTA2, etc. would be all Valves, so who knows. They're a private company, so you can really only speculate. However, I think that the investment is slightly exaggerated.
Also, it should be noted that another major reason for the increase in games available on Linux has as much to do with ease of portability. Most engines allow for much easier porting of games cross-platform than they once did.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
It's a shame because competition breeds innovation and Microsoft desparately needs competition in the desktop space, some of the crap they're pulling with Windows 10 is awful but people lap it up because "Oooh free..."
when in History has OpenGL ever been first to a new generation of card while DX is still not even working on said card?
I dont think ever.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
2012 198
2016 1900
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Many delays since 2013. Poor sales since launch. Some Steam Machines now discontinued; others now available with Win10. The total lack of news at GDC 2016. Businesses follow money. And so I wonder whether Valve's push for Steam Machines is what it was back when Gabe spoke in 2013. Businesses change tack all the time.
people didnt buy steam machines because they were slow and as a result got bad reviews which were deserved. consumers dont know WHY its slow its just slow
the reason is (I hope) because of vulkan but consumers dont know that.
They certiantly did not buy them because they could build a PC cheaper than a pre-buit gaming machine which is an industry that has done just fine for at least a decade.
REMINDER:
years ago Valve got Left 4 Dead to perform better on Linux then it did on Windows. They then took that work to Kronos Group (I would assume anyway). So the expectation was that Steam Machines would be attractive because you could get better performance from a Steam Machine then you could a same spec PC. However this did not happen, why? Vulkan.
Does the average consumer know all this? no. But if you were to present to them a 'console' that performs better than a same priced PC or same priced Console and has all the game and has internet access for free that the consumer would be interested.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Wait you are saying that the 1080 GTX doesn't support DirectX12 ? I think you are greatly misinformed my friend. The 1080 runs DX12 just fine.
no..
it currently doesnt work on 1080 but it will
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Exactly, if there was price parity with consoles..... I'm pretty sure that's what we've been saying. Price parity with PCs doesn't matter right now since PCs perform additional functions in addition to gaming. So it's really just the console that they need to aim for to be successful.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
quote:
But if you were to present to them a 'console' that performs better than a
same priced PC
OR
same priced Console
and has all the game and has internet access for free that the consumer would be interested.
its not an exclusive statement, its an inclusive statement and as such...matters and makes your point NOT the same
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
You stand corrected. We have been running benches with the 1080 in DirectX 12 without any problems at all.
I stand correct on something factual for a change/
thank you
now...what is the Story regarding Doom?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Apparently it does outperform DX12 in many tests. Running on Windows.
So Vulkan might possibly become the preferred gfx API in the future. Running on Windows.
So to make Valve's dream come true, Vulkan will have to perform better on Linux than it does on Windows. Consistently.
It's waaay too early to make that call, nVidia and AMD haven't had time yet to properly optimise their drivers. And believe me, they will be pulling out all the stops to get the best possible results on Windows. Because that's where the vast majority of their products are being used...
as a pre-cursor of curiosity has OpenGL ever in its history out performed the same generation of DirectX. If not, is it just simply by chance or does it have anything at all to do with Valves help at kronos group. That is the question I am suggesting
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
That is about all I can get from wiki on Id Tech 6. Why they choose to not support DirectX 12 is anyone's guess I imagine
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
You do realise that there's 120 members (corporations) in that consortium ?
Almost everyone who's anyone in the tech business is part of the Khronos Group. Even Microsoft is a contributor.
Do you have any evidence to support your claim that Valve is so important in the group ? They seem somewhat out of their depth in that collection of tech heavy-hitters. Strange that they are not even among the Promoters (steering comittee) for the group...