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Before you Pledge - Buyer Beware: The Real Ship Status and Concept Sales

trionwrecktrionwreck Member UncommonPosts: 128
edited June 2016 in Star Citizen
As was said officially recently, (RTV 89) all ships, which concept sale was or will be, after September 2015 (after Endevour), won't be in the game release. This might even be revised again as Chris Roberts also talked about a "Minimal Viable Product" which could mean more cuts. Please think about that before you pledge!

More than half of the ships are not flight ready. Flight ready means they somehow work in the PTU but most are still missing one or some combination of HUD, Instruments, Consoles, full flight model, mass (yeah, they all have no mass/the same mass) and many more. So take "flight ready" with a grain of salt as it only means you can get into the cockpit (if you don't glitch out) and take off.

One Example is the recently added Starfarer which is "flight ready" but none of it's core functionality is working (like refuelling). The cockpit is bugged for everyone. Seats are broken. You fall through floors. Nothing internally works (except doors and even those bug out sometimes).

---

Here is a nice picture illustrating the real Engineering debt that CIG has (as of May 22nd). Everything not completely BLUE is not done yet:



If you intend to pledge pick at least a ship that is already in the PTU and more or less working!

WARNING: There are no loan ships even if some people say there are!

There are no loaners any more according to the Lead of Ship Designs and Developer Ben Lesnik as of Jun 2, 2016.

Ben Lesnick, Developer:
We don't, uh, specifically do hangar LOANERS any more I mean we... we haven't even done the MATRIX for the... for 2.4 so... ahm, not a worry there... ahhm... yeah... just something that'll...
Yeah it's just that 2.4 is still on the PTU so we don't have the... LOADOUT LOADOUT... LOWER LOAN... LOADOUT MATRIX so uh we'll...

SOURCE: Bensday with Batgirl and Ben Episode 54 Jun 2, 2016

Carry on Commandos!
Post edited by trionwreck on
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Comments

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    edited June 2016
    It needs to be mentioned that everyone that pledged for a ship does get a flight ready (working and finished) "loaner" ship to be able to participate in the Alpha testing if they want.

    This is usually a Hornet or Origin 300 series  single seat fighter (for those who pledged for smaller ships) or  a Constellation with its Merlin snubfighter (for those who pledged for a multiplayer ship).

    CIG also makes it very clear that such a concept ship is still in development and adds disclaimers to all those ships e.g.

    "The XXX is being offered for the first time as a limited concept sale. This means that the ship design meets our specifications, but it is not yet ready to display in your Hangar or to fight in Star Citizen."

    "Remember: we are offering this pledge ship to help fund Star Citizen’s development. The funding generated by sales such as this is what allows us to include deeper, non-combat oriented features in the Star Citizen world. Concept ships will be available for in-game credits in the final universe, and they are not required to start the game."

    "Additionally, please note that the XXX will be entering the ship pipeline now, it will ultimately be released after other concept ships have been completed. All decorative ‘flare’ items will also be available to acquire in the finished game world. The goal is to make additional ships available that give players a different experience rather than a particular advantage when the persistent universe launches."

    So it should not come as a surprise for anyone that he does not find his concept ship in his hangar immediately.


    Have fun


    PS:
    The link you provided - the Ben and Batgirl interview:

    Ben stated that the loaner matrix is not in effect in the PTU server. Which is a much smaller server for a focus test group. He is NOT speaking about the live server.  He is NOT claiming that there is no loaner matrix anymore or that there are no loaner ships for concept sale ship owners anymore.


    Post edited by Erillion on
  • trionwrecktrionwreck Member UncommonPosts: 128
    Erillion said:
    It needs to be mentioned that everyone that pledged for a ship does get a flight ready (working and finished) "loaner" ship to be able to participate in the Alpha testing if they want.

    There are no loaners any more according to the Lead of Ship Designs and Developer Ben Lesnik. Wrong information from you @Erillion, you should know better than that!

    Ben Lesnick, Developer:
    We don't, uh, specifically do hangar LOANERS any more I mean we... we haven't even done the MATRIX for the... for 2.4 so... ahm, not a worry there... ahhm... yeah... just something that'll...
    Yeah it's just that 2.4 is still on the PTU so we don't have the... LOADOUT LOADOUT... LOWER LOAN... LOADOUT MATRIX so uh we'll...

    SOURCE: Bensday with Batgirl and Ben Episode 54 Jun 2, 2016

    Carry on Commandos!


  • Saxx0nSaxx0n PR/Brand Manager BitBox Ltd.Member UncommonPosts: 999
    Consumers tend to vote with their wallets. Considering funding has surpassed 100 million and continues to climb at a steady pace seems to point to success.

    Your insight is very "smart" though...

    Life IS Feudal
  • exile01exile01 Member RarePosts: 1,089
    so their cashing now concept models, wich will never ever make it into the game? or years after "release"?

  • trionwrecktrionwreck Member UncommonPosts: 128
    edited June 2016
    exile01 said:
    so their cashing now concept models, wich will never ever make it into the game? or years after "release"?

    Correct. Since September 2015. Also be aware that the "minimal viable product" can mean that not even ships before that date will make it to into release. It all depends how minimal that viable product is.

    Carry on Commandos!
  • trionwrecktrionwreck Member UncommonPosts: 128
    Saxx0n said:
    Consumers tend to vote with their wallets. Considering funding has surpassed 100 million and continues to climb at a steady pace seems to point to success.

    Your insight is very "smart" though...
    Bandwagon Fallacy. Also, funding or success has nothing to do with this post and the ship pipeline.

    This is relevant information for potential backers not people that are backers already. Consumers also have a right to know exactly what they are getting for their money.

    Carry on Commandos!
  • VorpalChicken28VorpalChicken28 Member UncommonPosts: 348
    Personally at this point I'd advise people to not spend any money on SC, it's possibly being released next year, so I'd just wait and buy once it's released I think the project has had enough money to make an amazing game.
    “Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” 
    ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
  • EmbersEmbers Member UncommonPosts: 66
    You're paying VAT, you aren't "pledging" you are buying ships or rather pictures of what the ships might someday look like, the Idris, sold in 2012 and not in the game in 2016.  Or the Caterpillar, sold in 2012, not in the game and a ship they actually forgot about.
  • SirmatthiasSirmatthias Member UncommonPosts: 562
    I'm confused is this game out already? or is it in test server mode like Alpha or Beta?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    edited June 2016
    Erillion said:
    It needs to be mentioned that everyone that pledged for a ship does get a flight ready (working and finished) "loaner" ship to be able to participate in the Alpha testing if they want.

    There are no loaners any more according to the Lead of Ship Designs and Developer Ben Lesnik. Wrong information from you @Erillion, you should know better than that!

    Ben Lesnick, Developer:
    We don't, uh, specifically do hangar LOANERS any more I mean we... we haven't even done the MATRIX for the... for 2.4 so... ahm, not a worry there... ahhm... yeah... just something that'll...
    Yeah it's just that 2.4 is still on the PTU so we don't have the... LOADOUT LOADOUT... LOWER LOAN... LOADOUT MATRIX so uh we'll...

    SOURCE: Bensday with Batgirl and Ben Episode 54 Jun 2, 2016

    Carry on Commandos!


    Incorrect.

    Newest concept ship is the Drake Bucaneer.

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//15358-Drake-Buccaneer-Q-A-Part-1

    >>>What would the loaner ship be for the Buccaneer while we await it to finish development?

    As with all single-seat ships in the game at present, we intend to provide an F7C Hornet as the loaner.>>>


    Older concept ships e.g. the Endeavor see this table:

    https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/301211/new-ship-loaner-matrix


    Nice try. Still no cigar.


    Have fun



  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    I'm confused is this game out already? or is it in test server mode like Alpha or Beta?

    Alpha test mode. You can do volunteer playtesting and bug reporting - if you want.

    Version Alpha 2.3 on live server, Alpha 2.4 on Public Test server.

    Currently you can do this:

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/feature-list


    Have fun

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Saxx0n said:
    Consumers tend to vote with their wallets. Considering funding has surpassed 100 million and continues to climb at a steady pace seems to point to success.

    Your insight is very "smart" though...
    Well it would seem consumers are waking up since funding amounts per month first tanked months ago and they continue to fall but at a slower rate
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    edited June 2016
    Kefo said:
    Well it would seem consumers are waking up since funding amounts per month first tanked months ago and they continue to fall but at a slower rate
    Which is exactly what happened last year and STILL it climbed back up to 5+ M$ PER MONTH later last year.
    So its behaviour as usual. Currently the rate is on the average HIGHER than last year.  (--> My mistake, found an error in my spreadsheet. Its lower this year.)

    Basically it happened the same way in all the years before it, modified by Star Citizen showing off new things at game shows (which usually causes a spike in new pledges). There was always a drop in (early) summer and a spike before X-Mas.


    Have fun


    PS:
    You can do the number crunching yourself.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/edit#gid=1694467207



    Post edited by Erillion on
  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    edited June 2016
    Dakeru said:
    [mod edit]
    [mod edit]
    What you wrote hardly qualifies as legit and elaborate info.

    If you really want to inform us then do some research before posting, more important try to present what the developer states on a given issue.
  • trionwrecktrionwreck Member UncommonPosts: 128
    Shodanas said:
    Dakeru said:
    [mod edit]
    [mod edit]
    What you wrote hardly qualifies as legit and elaborate info.

    If you really want to inform us then do some research before posting, more important try to present what the developer states on a given issue.
    I presented what the official Spokesperson and Head of Ship development said in a live stream yesterday:

    There are no loaners any more according to the Lead of Ship Designs and Developer Ben Lesnik. Wrong information from you @Erillion, you should know better than that!

    Ben Lesnick, Developer:
    We don't, uh, specifically do hangar LOANERS any more I mean we... we haven't even done the MATRIX for the... for 2.4 so... ahm, not a worry there... ahhm... yeah... just something that'll...
    Yeah it's just that 2.4 is still on the PTU so we don't have the... LOADOUT LOADOUT... LOWER LOAN... LOADOUT MATRIX so uh we'll...

    SOURCE: Bensday with Batgirl and Ben Episode 54 Jun 2, 2016

    Carry on Commandos!
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,803
    The irony is that I got a warning although I am actually on the OP's side.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,990
    edited June 2016
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Well it would seem consumers are waking up since funding amounts per month first tanked months ago and they continue to fall but at a slower rate
    ....

    Currently the rate is on the average HIGHER than last year.
    .....

    PS: 
    You do not have to believe me, you can do the number crunching yourself.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/edit#gid=1694467207
    I don't believe you, and I did the number crunching:

     
    Total in January - May 2015: 14 881 464$
    Total January - May 2016: 10 391 221$

    Change: -30%


    Or in case your "Currently" means last month

    Total in May 2015: 2 815 387$
    Total in May 2016: 1 432 159$

    Change: -49%
     
  • trionwrecktrionwreck Member UncommonPosts: 128
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:
    It needs to be mentioned that everyone that pledged for a ship does get a flight ready (working and finished) "loaner" ship to be able to participate in the Alpha testing if they want.

    There are no loaners any more according to the Lead of Ship Designs and Developer Ben Lesnik. Wrong information from you @Erillion, you should know better than that!

    Ben Lesnick, Developer:
    We don't, uh, specifically do hangar LOANERS any more I mean we... we haven't even done the MATRIX for the... for 2.4 so... ahm, not a worry there... ahhm... yeah... just something that'll...
    Yeah it's just that 2.4 is still on the PTU so we don't have the... LOADOUT LOADOUT... LOWER LOAN... LOADOUT MATRIX so uh we'll...

    SOURCE: Bensday with Batgirl and Ben Episode 54 Jun 2, 2016

    Carry on Commandos!


    Incorrect.

    Newest concept ship is the Drake Bucaneer.

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link//15358-Drake-Buccaneer-Q-A-Part-1

    >>>What would the loaner ship be for the Buccaneer while we await it to finish development?

    As with all single-seat ships in the game at present, we intend to provide an F7C Hornet as the loaner.>>>


    Older concept ships e.g. the Endeavor see this table:

    https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/301211/new-ship-loaner-matrix


    Who is right here? The head of Ship development and Developer Ben Lesnik in an interview just 1 day ago or the website?

    I go with the latest information and that clearly says NO LOANERS!

    In any case, due to the conflicting information that CIG puts out the BUYER BEWARE still stands!

    ----

    Ben Lesnick, Developer:
    We don't, uh, specifically do hangar LOANERS any more I mean we... we haven't even done the MATRIX for the... for 2.4 so... ahm, not a worry there... ahhm... yeah... just something that'll...
    Yeah it's just that 2.4 is still on the PTU so we don't have the... LOADOUT LOADOUT... LOWER LOAN... LOADOUT MATRIX so uh we'll...

    SOURCE: Bensday with Batgirl and Ben Episode 54 Jun 2, 2016

    Carry on Commandos!
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    trionwreck said:
    I presented what the official Spokesperson and Head of Ship development said in a live stream yesterday:

    My information is from TODAYS official website.  ;-)

    Until the information presented there changes, that is what is the official position.



    Have fun
  • trionwrecktrionwreck Member UncommonPosts: 128
    edited June 2016
    Erillion said:
    I presented what the official Spokesperson and Head of Ship development said in a live stream yesterday:

    My information is from TODAYS official website.  ;-)

    Until the information presented there changes, that is what is the official position.

    Have fun
    So you are saying the official spokesperson and head of ship development Ben Lesnik is wrong? If the official spokesperson is not to be trusted then there is even more reason for new buyers to be cautious!

    I would say the Director of Community Engagement and Content Strategy better get his shit together when he does live streams.

    Carry on Commandos
  • trionwrecktrionwreck Member UncommonPosts: 128
    Dakeru said:
    The irony is that I got a warning although I am actually on the OP's side.
    I believe that's what they call collateral damage?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    trionwreck said:
    So you are saying the official spokesperson 
    The official spokesperson is Chris Roberts. And yes, sometimes he says the wrong things e.g. his "Hornet" (instead of Mustang) slip of tongue at "BarCitizen".

    To err is human. Errors are being corrected by a dev comment within the next days on the official website.


    Have fun
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    Erillion said:
    I'm confused is this game out already? or is it in test server mode like Alpha or Beta?

    Alpha test mode. You can do volunteer playtesting and bug reporting - if you want.

    Version Alpha 2.3 on live server, Alpha 2.4 on Public Test server.

    Currently you can do this:

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/feature-list


    Have fun

    They call their version Alpha 2.4x but actually it is a pre-Alpha as stated by CIG, no gamemechanic except pewpew is implemented

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,328
    Vrika said:

    Or in case your "Currently" means last month

    Total in May 2015: 2 815 387$
    Total in May 2016: 1 432 159$

    Change: -49%
    Or one can pick any months or combination of months  to get a certain result to fit a narrative ....

    Total in July 2015: $917,744

    Total in April 2016: $2,165,903

    Factor:  2.36


    Have fun
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    Erillion said:
    Vrika said:

    Or in case your "Currently" means last month

    Total in May 2015: 2 815 387$
    Total in May 2016: 1 432 159$

    Change: -49%
    Or one can pick any months or combination of months  to get a certain result to fit a narrative ....

    Total in July 2015: $917,744

    Total in April 2016: $2,165,903

    Factor:  2.36


    Have fun
    Or November 2015 and May 2016 - but this comparsion makes no sense o.O

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

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