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I really wish more people understand whats going on.
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
Very few players here understand the problem,
If the game is easy, every quest is boring. It's like this:
Your standing on a hill looking down on an encampment full of bad guys. The objective is to kill the leader and loot his head......Basic quest right ?
a) easy- You run down hack-and-slash the entire camp kill the leader and on to the next quest.
b) hard- each and every bad guy is difficult, you know this. You sit there for a few minuets and plan out how to take on each one separately. Or you wait for some help.....Strategy !
The bottom line is every mmo is crap.
What I don't understand is how everyone is scratching their heads trying to figure out why mmos are dying 
Here's proof,
If any of you had played any Darksouls games you would know every fight is hard and challenging. If everything were easy the game would be a shell of nothing, absolutely nothing.....Come on !....get with the program and start realizing where the problems are !
At least every other day, someone ask for a good mmo because they can find one on a list of over 200....This is me, and this is you too !
The answer is always the standard " play ESO, BDO or FF14 "
Comments
You are just creating one thread like this after the other.
You are like one of those insane preachers in parks who try to convince the audience that their insane view on the world is the only right one.
I think there is a problem these days because of how games can make money.
Sadly, more and more threads deal with "business model" to the exclusion of discussion about the actual game world, mechanics, lore, etc. This involves the perception of added grind or difficulty which can be overcome or ameliorated through cash shop purchases. There is suspicion on the part of gamers (now consumers) against everything developers do.
Is this difficult and challenging because the game is designed that way? Or is it because there is something in the cash shop that can help me get through this more conveniently?
If there is nothing in the cash shop to ease the difficulty then people who make games might be afraid to alienate the large numbers of players (paying customers) they need to keep their business going.
I don't have any answers, but I think that any discussion of your original topic needs to consider the business realities, the target audience, the budget of the game to produce, the goals of the developer, etc.
OP -- What is your standard for difficult and challenging enough? It might be helpful to know that. And how could such a game be successful? What kind of business model would work for this game?
Post after post...People can't find even one game.
Post after post...People are not finding any challenge
Post after post...People are saying mmos are dying
Post after post...People are slamming every mmo that comes out in the sub forums
Post after post...more are mad about cash shops than not
Post after post...People say quest suck
Yet, the same vocal 10 people are saying everything is fine
Polls are constantly made about games are dying, cash shops, theme park vs. open world....Its always CLEAR in every one that players are not happy usually 60% or more !!!.....But the reply's come from the same 10 people, the majority are spectators and they completely disagree !
People have come to accept this and like most things in life, once they have done so, they will vehemently defend their choice, even if its bad. Hence all the apologists telling you "everything is fine."
But complaning about it isn't changing anything.
Yes, nothing amazing,
Your right, complaining doesn't change anything. I guess I'm irritated about the same vocal 10 people that say things are fine, and will fight to the death saying it is !
Polls show one thing, responses from the same 10 reflect something else.
I could name all 10, but that wouldn't be nice would it ?
Not even the Pantheon supporters want anything to do with you.
Good post DMKano,
I agree with a lot of this.
As always we all have opinions and it's no secret both you and I are divided in our beliefs. I have to say I respect your side too. But based on polls conducted here. Many really don't like what's been happening in the last few years, I would even say the majority. So It's only my guess that the heavy posters ( the 10 ) here don't reflect what the real majority wants.
A game like Pantheon and its popularity as it comes closer to release will surprise many.
Were just divided in our beliefs, and were both sticking to it
The problem is that the majority of people who play games do not want to "no life" in an mmorpg at all, they managed to bring in the non-mmorpg crowd by making the games far easier to make progress in but even then they still bail within 3-4 months anyway. There is simply no way to make this genre of games mainstream and get people to play them for many years by enough people.
Also it doesn't help that the market is flooded, they can't make more because the intended audience are almost all playing titles already and are incredibly tribal and attack any new titles. The only people who want more new games are the people who bail on new titles in a few months anyway and are pretty much not worth making titles for.
The only reason anyone ever thought the mmorpg genre was a goer was because wow blew up (before wow the mmorpg genre was filled with low budget titles, that's all it was), that lead to all these titles we have running now being created with massive budgets because publishers all thought they could replicate wow. None of them could, they all failed to come even close to what wow managed to do.
Once the companies saw that they could not replicate wow or even come close to it they all simply changed direction for their new productions into other genres. The mmorpg genre is a niche that isn't profitable with the expectations and lack of loyalty of it's audience.
We are lucky in that due to wow we have a sea of titles all running, go play one of them. They are all still being updated, they all have talented developers making content for them. If that's not good enough for you, well maybe this genre isnt' for you.
To keep making posts like this is silly, there simply will not be any new AAA mmorpg titles made from here on out. That's why we have to cherish all the titles we have now and not hate on the ones we don't like. Even if some company made a new low budget mmorpg and it blew up with millions upon millions of players it would still not usher in another golden age of mmorpgs because they have already proven that it's almost impossible to replicate success off the back of another mmorpg.
Go play ESO, Tera, SWTOR, GW2, FFXI, FFXIV or WOW and stop complaining. It is what it is, the mmorpg genre had it's moment in the sun and it's over.
The real issue lies in the equation "backers" are using with any genre of games nowadays. Time invested, effort and profit margin gained. No one is willing to invest the effort and money needed, to back a game that might have some potential. So many developers have left this genre almost entirely.
A lot of these factors go into stale state of affairs we have in the MMO scene now. In an era of self-serving greed, no one is willing to take on a "labor of love" like we seen with earlier generations of MMO's. This is not an opinion, this is fact. Bring up this subject with an old dev, who really in their hearts, love making mmorpgs. Or at least use to, they will share these same opinions. I know, because I have.
(Akiraosc)
You guys are just pissed with the way things developed so now you are trying to force down your opinions and receptions down other peoples' throats.
MMO's, hell, any genre now, aren't being made as games the devs would actually have fun playing. It is solely with profit in mind. Look at what is being done with early access, if you can honestly say there is no greed, or fault in that, you're jaded as one can be.
For someone that has such an issue with others opinions, you really do little to backup your own.
Edit: Also you took what I said out of context. I never said more played in that era, I referenced the volume of games being released in this genre; and the level of substance of those games.
Basing your argument on the claim that more play now, than in 2000, is like saying music is 100% factually better now, because more people are listening to it.
Technology advances---> more have access---> more are involved in it.
(Akiraosc)
The sad thing is I find myself trying to find a game in which I can get some challenge (create my own tactics) through soloing dungeons. I had a bit of fun in ESO, the only fun I had in that game, attempting to solo dungeons. Unfortunately the loot tables don't appear to be improved for dungeon trash even though it is 10x harder than anything in the open world.
The MMO lite Kings and Heroes, is a pretty challenging solo dungeon crawler if you set it on hard or above and the rewards do scale even on trash, but it is very light on tactics.
We see this cycle where a new game is announced and there's mega hype, then it releases and everyone flocks to it, then three months later everyone bails and it goes free to play, then six months to a year later everyone talks about how "Oh, I like GW2, but I'm not going back until they fix this thing I don't like'". At some point it ends up on steam begging for a revival, but steam only generates less than 1500 concurrent players at peak hours like Wildstar.
One thing that I would love to see in an MMORPG is having powerful enemies to fight. Rather than thousands of trash mobs standing around with 23 gallons of high pressure blood waiting to be sprayed all over the landscape at the prick of a sewing needle, lets have single enemies, but make them tough. The landscape is mostly herbivores and skittish animals like Deer and Rabbits, but when you come across a brown bear while exploring a cave, then watch the fuck out, cause they're dangerous. I dunno, I think that would be more fun personally.
Back then people would run around with the same kind of Walkman everywhere.
Now you have various good companies so you can freely chose what you prefer.
I am gamer and I like to try out different games and I am having fun doing so.
The idea that I have to stick with 1 game and dedicate all my free time into it is nothing else but fanatism.
But I agree OP!
Rob Manuel
I play MMOs for the Forum PVP
Seems like you have completely burnt out on gaming and nothing satisfies you. Take a break (long/short) and come back into gaming after a while. You will find satisfaction on games that previously didn't even make a difference on you.