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Why SWG will never beat WOW
Darksand
Member Posts: 37
Now, I dont like WOW, but here is the problem why SWG would never beat WOW
http://bigkid.com.au/2006/02/20/the-dangers-of-monogamey/#more-4483
This is the problem, when I was playing Pre-cu SWG, i was totaly blind for any other game on the market, i was so dedicated to SWG, i couldnt spend time in any other game.
So if SOE wants to try to get people from WOW over to SWG, thye have to atleast make SWG like 10 times better, and put out a crapload of advertisements, and even then i think it will not be enough.
only when the CU came, i lost my interest and started playing (trying) other games, and there SOE lost another custommer. They will never overcome WOW, its just impossible. Even Turbine, with DDO (a big named mmo) where not happy with their first sale numbers.
So, if the people at SOE did their homework, they should know, this is in fact a sinking ship if they continue trying to beat WOW.
/discuss
Comments
SWG was alot closer to WoW during Pre-CU than it is now. Imagine what would happen in WoW if one day they logged in and had a damn crosshair on their screen. I think Blizzard would have to call the bomb squads in.
I think in order to "beat" wow you have to offer something different. There are too many wow like games out there, whether they are fantasy or the linear kill loot repeat type. What i think could beat wow would be a non-fantasy, sandbox style game with professions that appealed to a very broad audience of all ages and gender and play styles, with an innovative dev team who didnt say things like "non-combat gcw? i dont even know what that means", and ofc quick fixes to bugs and imbalances that pop up.
Im still waiting for that game.
When wow first came out I didnt look at it because i was so happy with swg. Now that i mostly play wow, im constantly looking for new mmo's to try because i just think wow is so pointless. Its depressing to think that the only point of playing that game is to get to 60 and then get gear. Thats it. I think if another game came out like the one i mentioned, Wow would be "beaten" easily because i cant be alone in my apathy for Wow.
For the Horde!
Ehm, closer yes. u can even say that on pre-cu, WoW was 10 times bigger, however now WoW is more like 100 times bigger (playerbase wise), so still SWG back in the old days was Way smaller, still havent figured out why, becouse for me, WoW wasnt anywhere near the gameplay of SWG.
How's this for a reason why it won't.
They were both different games, one was sci-fi and had an older playerbase.
Then there was WoW, a cartoony game for kids and teenages who like to boost their e-peen.
SWG was different from other MMO's, which made it special.
Now it's not.
-
Do not hate it, but instead embrace the diversity.
Absolutely right, however its a business, SW should have atleast as big a playerbase as WoW, so why didnt they get it pre-cu?
I have maybe a small idea, SW content, and then i mean content from the first three (4,5,6) epi's, becouse that has the biggest fanbase, being almost all addults, thats why this NGE is going the wrong way becouse its focused on teens. and the way smaller fanbase from the (1,2,3) epi's
Pre cu only had the broad appeal and sandbox style, it DIDNT have the dev team to see it through and had a terrible bug problem and a history of rushed patches and expansions. The alfa class recieved most dev attention while the other combat professions became unbalanced only fixed by quick, short-sighted nerfs. Thats why it failed.
For the Horde!
Read my statement
<----------------
Fantasy MMO's out number Sci-FI MMO's, I think 5 to 1 is accurate if not a conservative statement. Why mess with a good thing.
Pre cu only had the broad appeal and sandbox style, it DIDNT have the dev team to see it through and had a terrible bug problem and a history of rushed patches and expansions. The alfa class recieved most dev attention while the other combat professions became unbalanced only fixed by quick, short-sighted nerfs. Thats why it failed.
hmm, the last month before the CU, the bugs where on an ultimate low, yes there still where bugs, but they didnt realy bug me. Also, the statement they where doing all coding for the alpha class, well dunno if thats true, I myself was realy enjoying all other melee profs, imo they felt complete, but never been jedi, so i dont realy know how much the coders prefered them, also, back in those days, i didnt have the urge to read the forums. so, dunno.
Edit: However i did like the Jedi as Alpha class, it gave people a goal, there are totaly no goals now.
Hehe well i guess i should have been more specific then about the problems it had, but i dont have 3 weeks to talk about them all.
Im not really sure about having an alpha class in mmo's. i was a jedi and enjoyed it, but i do see how it hurt the game with hologrinding and pvp and pve for that matter.
For the Horde!
Hehe well i guess i should have been more specific then about the problems it had, but i dont have 3 weeks to talk about them all.
Im not really sure about having an alpha class in mmo's. i was a jedi and enjoyed it, but i do see how it hurt the game with hologrinding and pvp and pve for that matter.
I totaly didnt mind Jedi being Uber, its how it should be. My motto is, if u cant win in pvp, bring more people, or your own Jedi.
U have to agree, i think its exciting to be in a 20 person group, defending a Base, and we get attacked by 1 jedi, and then overcome him, with not more then 15 death, damn thats exciting, trilling and how star wars should be.
Yes i had my fair share of hard fights, with realy nasty jedi, and yes i was mad, but not on the system, only that one Jedi, and thats the game, loking at it now, it was pretty damn exciting.
An MMO is unbalancable imo, lets say u balance all profs (imo dull) still if u bring 50% more people to pvp, where's your balance? its not exciting, imo Jedi as Alpha worked, and i never been a real one.
However i was all for making it even harder to get.
But thats just my opinion
I think it's much simpler than that. If you want to mimic WoW-style success, what you need is A) A gigantic pre-existing fanbase (as Blizzard had due to their Warcraft series) and
Polish. As long as you have that large playerbase to start with and give them nothing to talk about except how great everything looks and how smooth it plays, you're set -- word of mouth is just going see to it things get better.
That's not to say that the things you've listed aren't essential ingredients for a superior game, I just don't think they're as important in achieving those kind of sub numbers.
Just another opinion,
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
This is a right down redicilous quote and a redicilous purpose of a thread.
SWG will never beat WoW? First of all you can never say when a game has "beaten" another, is it by number of subs? Well tell you what there can be millions of reasons for huge numbers of subs increasing, marketing and friend-to-friend communication. Also there is alot of hype involved.
But one thing, ONE thing makes it impossible for SWG to ever reach as many subscribers as WoW:
Advanced game never reaches as big audiences as casual games! Simple as that, that's why WoW is the biggest, it's simply the easiest game to date.
SWG (i'm thinking pre-CU) was to me the superior game, it had billions of more options and ways to go than any MMORPG out today. So in my view it beat the hell out of all the others, it was just to hard to get into so it could never get the bigger audience.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Oh, dont get me wrong, for me, SWG (pre-cu) has beaten WoW, however to be a falid business, WoW draws in the big money, and in that point of view does SOE loose, and thats what they are talking about, they want a playerbase as big as WoW, thats what this CU/NGE is all about, and imo, they will never suceed in that.
WoW is big because they:
$OE:
With a track record like this $OE couldn't win a sizable market share in anything even if they had NO competition.
SWG, when released, had more potential that WoW EVER had. The problem was the way $OE managed the game.
SWG was somewhat complex, yes. BUT my nephew who was 12 when he started had NO problems figuring stuff out and we had a guild where someone had the answer to most any question.
What $OE needed to do was to create a newbie help post similar to what EVE has (please check it out ... it is awesome) to help the new people who have started playing SWG. $OE should have had, for people that are new, an in-game chat tab that's sole purpose is to help them find a guild to join. Like a Guild locator tab where guild leaders (or anyone) and newbs can go for help and recruitment.
There was an in-game email system that $OE should have utilized to poll it's active subscribers. $OE could have sent out an emails, asking a questions with poll answers to select and when a subscriber answers the email gets automatically deleted from the players inbox. Thus eliminating outside "focus groups" and saving millions on dollars.
These are just a few things that could have been done to make SWG a bigger game than what it was.
Below is also huge .... Warcraft HAD been around for years before SWG: (Awesome point duggo)
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
There is one and only one thing that makes WoW a game it is.
Millions upon millions of dolars spent on polish, playtesting and usability. There was an article analyzing the success of WoW, and that's all it came down to. They had their design, concepts, prototypes, and much more, but in the end, they let tons of people just test and tweak everything into oblivion, until it played as it should.
It offers nothing new conceptually. It introduces no unique concepts. It's the same old game with same old problems. But Blizzard spent tons of cash making it look and feel just right.
When was last time SWG ever bothered to do anything to actually fix bugs, playability and/or accesiblity issues.
Why do people say in WoW you get to 60 and then there's nothing to do except instances? Because that's exactly what WoW is about. But they do an incredible job at hiding that from players. WoW is just plain old level/gear grind with no substance as many other games. But majority of players does not see it.
Isn't this what the games are about? Having fun while playing, who cares if it's grind in disguise, or just a glorified EQ1.
Agreed.
BUT, you also don't want to see the server over run with jedi. Jedi "being" in the game is not an issue. Jedi being in the game and running all over the place killing people with NO penalty when they die is a problem.
If you see a jedi then he has a second toon. Automatically a given. MOST people had at least 2 accounts or up to at least 4 toons. My point .... if they can't play their Jedi they can always play one of their other toons.
If a system was in place that forced jedi to regrind jedi if the died too many times in a specified periond of time you would have accomplished in keeping the number of jedi down from participatiing in alot of events because 1. they don't want to have to regrind jedi and 2. they would be forced to pick their battles wisely.
I mean like if a jedi who is one death away from having to "regrind" his jedi he is going to think twice about getting involved with PvP. Thus removing him from the battlefield. Out of sight .... out of mind.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
Comparing a successful game like WOW to game that has obviusly been going down hill steadily like SWG is just a no brainer and over kill. lets move on to the next topic please...
Faranthil Tanathalos
EverQuest 1 - Ranger
Star Wars Galaxies - Master Ranger
Everquest2 - Ranger WarhammerOnline - Shadow Warrior
WOW - Hunter
That's right I like bows and arrows.
I totaly Agree here
addition tho, now that so many people left the game, and only the NGE lovers stayed, now they get polls on the forums, now that vets can no longer vote. how stupid is that, maybe they know this, and will get the answers they need.
Agreed.
BUT, you also don't want to see the server over run with jedi. Jedi "being" in the game is not an issue. Jedi being in the game and running all over the place killing people with NO penalty when they die is a problem.
Oh, definatly, it should have been like pre-cu when they where all in hiding, wasnt that called visability? It made Jedi hide, worked fine by me.
If you see a jedi then he has a second toon. Automatically a given. MOST people had at least 2 accounts or up to at least 4 toons. My point .... if they can't play their Jedi they can always play one of their other toons.
If a system was in place that forced jedi to regrind jedi if the died too many times in a specified periond of time you would have accomplished in keeping the number of jedi down from participatiing in alot of events because 1. they don't want to have to regrind jedi and 2. they would be forced to pick their battles wisely.
Wouldnt be a problem imo
I mean like if a jedi who is one death away from having to "regrind" his jedi he is going to think twice about getting involved with PvP. Thus removing him from the battlefield. Out of sight .... out of mind.
I definatly agree, however it shouldnt be like instadeath, more like dieing like 4 times in one week orsom. and maybe exclude Duel Deaths
Well, a Star Wars licenced game imo should atleast have the same number of subs as WoW, so i dont think comparing it is a no brainer. Furthermore is SOE actualy saying they want that 5 mil+ playerbase, thats why they are doing the NGE now, they are actualy convinced they can do it.
Still i do not understand why pre-cu didnt beat WoW, even with all those bugs and negative stuff SOE did, i still think pre-cu was the best game around for miles.
Having played both games to the point of obsession I feel somewhat qualified to compare them. SWG to me was fun at its peak because it had lots of flexibility. You could play as a bounty hunter for a few months, then switch to a crafter for a few months, then maybe become a Jedi down the line or you could just stick with one profession and build their ingame reputation if you liked. The character you created though was YOUR character and you lived a life-like pattern with him and developed a real in-game personality and reputation.
WoW is more traditional in that you pick a class and are stuck with it forever. What WoW does that SWG never did very well though was that it has a huge and well thought out storyline and progression. Even the zones are designed to allow interaction between different factions at different critical points in your development. WoW is just a very well designed and entertaining game, but once you have made it to the max level the game changes to something else and loses its luster. The characters you make there also never really feel like your alter-ego and I have no problem deleting one or making a new one while my SWG characters feel almost like my pets or children in a sense.
SWG most definitely could have been the biggest MMO of all time if it had done just a few things differently. First, they should have made some fun missions and story arcs to entertain you and help you level instead of making "mindless grinding" the method of advancement. These quests could have informed, immersed and entertained you and the journey to max level would have seemed a little more significant. Second, they needed to balance the combat professions somewhat by introducing caps or at least sharply diminishing returns at a certain cutoff point. Third, they could have better balanced loot drops and mission rewards with player crafting. Finally, they could have made the GCW more prominent and significant. None of these things were ever done though and if you didn't get in a good guild and make some friends the whole thing seemed pointless and stupid to be honest.
I loved SWG pre-NGE though. I liked pre-CU better than CU, but I adjusted to CU eventually even though my Master Doctor had millions of dollars of buffs turned into useless junk overnight. It had its faults for certain, but could have been improved into something fun and worthwhile if they had just tried, but ultimately SWG failed to deliver the satisfying story arc and mission advancement that it needed to compete with other games. I also loved and still do love WoW, but to be honest it lacks the kind of alter-ego immersion and feeling of endless possibilities that SWG had. The best analogy I can think of is the difference between a flight simulator and a rail shooter. Both can be fun, but are definitely different experiences.
What I really wish for is a game that has both possibilities. A strong story arc with missions that are fun and rewarding, but also a big open sandbox with lots of possibilities that allow me to explore and enjoy things on my own as well. SWG was revolutionary in many ways and I hate to think that the failure of SWG may mean the end of the sandbox in MMO's.
I am with you Mordah, much of what was added could have not only been added to previous versions they already had the coding to do it with the skill system that was in place. Think of the legacy quest line as a reverse form of the village where you got xp and selected what skills from your chosen professions to use it on.
If they had also gone the route Blizzard took by involving the community in part of development they could have also saved a bundle, modders have worked wonders on the UI for WoW, giving everything from moveable bags to a UI conversion for the colourblind.
SWG's greatest strength was it's freedom, now that it has been removed they are way behind the competition with little hope of even breaking even.