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Islamic countries, no jew nor christain allowed
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Badly integrated immingrants in Denmark, isn't exactly the best measurement for 1 Billion people all over the world.
More exactly. You judged 1 Billion people on a couple of thousand.
Have you read either of them?
Facts are more interested in cliches.
Yeah. But you might want to read, just parts, of the quran and the bible before you make such ridiculous comments.
There is a buttload of violence in the bible, but the bible is a collection of stories not a lawbook, and those violent stories exist to:
A) Tell history.
The Koran reads more like a lawbook, after all, its ALLAH's word is it not. The Bible never claimed to be God's word, only a collection of stories that even the clergy in Judeo-Christianity freely admit have been distorted over time. But the Koran, oh, the Koran isnt 5,000 years old, the Koran is fairly rescent with less distortion over time as the Muslims just love to point out. So if the Koran says something it really means it, because Koran=God, right? Riiiight.
I have read most parts of the bible and certain parts of the Quran. And each of my 12 years of school I have had about religions. So I believe I know enough to make a statement like that. I think I know a fair deal of the different religions in the world. Religion and ethics have always interested me.
Exactly. That was what I meant. The Bible is really just a story book. Anyone who actually read it, would instantly know that.
Yes the Quran is more of a law book than the Bible. But it contains alot of stories. You have 500 verses about Moses, 250 about Abraham and 90 about Jesus. And then you have alot about the life of Mohammed. Biggest difference between this historical material, and the material found in the Bible is that in the Quran it isn't arranged like a "story". It's spread all over the place.
And it's clearly not a all evil book like some of you say it is.
Blame everything on the West and the USA. Thats what liberals like to do. Lets take a hard look at responsibility and it something liberals dont understand in general.
The problem that face many non-Western worlds is their own government fails them. Instead of these nation facing the hard truth and that their society and government is corrupted, they blame all the trouble on the West and the USA. It is the easy way out politically. These nations need to take responsibility for their own action. If these people want to make their life better it has to start with them. They have to stop the corruption of their own government. The have to stop their own wars. It is not going to get better for these people blaming it on the West and the US.
There wouldnt be an Iraq war if there werent a 9/11. The hard truth is that the USA is not like European countries. When someone attacked us we dont raise a white flag, we get bigger guns and go to their backyard and beat the crap out of them. We are not pansy.
Ten years from now Iraq will be a better place because it will be a democracy. It people will not be afraid of their own government. Its people will be free. Keep in mind that the payment for freedom is heavy. If people desire to be free it must pay a price and that price is blood. Freedom is never free and even free counties like the USA still have to pay the price how heavy it is. There is no free launch.
No liberals don't blame EVERYTHING on the U.S. We just don't think that everything the U.S. does is a gleaming untarnished success story. It takes someone who is able to look at their faults and improve upon them to grow. There is a growing number of Republicans that are starting to say this war was a mistake too. And there are even more that are saying it's not being fought right.
The U.S. has historically for the most part had good intentions on things we've done. We are a relatively new nation. We're going to make mistakes. There's nothing wrong with admitting that. And I think other countries would have a lot more respect for us if we didn't act like our poo doesn't stink.
Liberals know who attacked us on 9-11. They know that ultimately it's the attackers fault. But that doesn't mean that you can't look deeper into it.
This whole talk show mumbo jumbo sputum is getting to where it's tearing our country apart. And it's not getting us anywhere.
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Well... my 17 years as a mormon(my whole life untill now) gives me a good background of the bible. And I've read certain areas of Quran. I've used 2 years to read the bible and analyse some certain areas of it. So I KNOW that there's nowhere in the Bible that condones violence. I KNOW there is certain areas of Quran which rewards and condones the violence.
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
This is what the bible has to say about nonbelievers.
I guess how you view certain things in religious writings depends on how you interpret them. To me it seems that the last paragraph tells believers of the Christian God that they should kill people who try to convert Christians. There are plenty of parts in the bible that expresses how you should deal with people in given situations eg. women or gay men.
Please do not come here and say that the bible do not condone violence, when in fact the bible says God commands you to do violence and oppress women under certain circumstances.
Please do not be holier than thou, when in fact Christians for centuries has killed in the name of God just as some Moslems is killing in the name of God now. Religions has always sought out to oppress the people in order to gain power, just as governments has.
Nice research work
Fits pretty nicely with my theory that one of the worst things you can do in life is restrict your mind to any one religion or set of beliefs. Sure everyone is entitled to believe what they want, but when it is as inwardly and outwardly destructive of people as mainstream religion, it begs the question of whats the point ?
Seems like whoever wrote these 2 books made pretty damn sure they were going to put enough stuff in them to permenantly pit one side against the other. Cant help thinking its a lot like some kid with 2 ant farms, putting a peice of candy in the middle of the 2 of them, raising the glass and letting them fight it out for the amusement.
At least somoene has a sense of humour.
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
I agree with you. Except for one little thing. There's a growing group of Bible scholars who are starting to stand up and say that the original texts of the Bible in fact do not condemn homosexuality. It seems that the hatred for gays that the christians have been holding so proudly is in fact a series of mistranslations and bias added texts.
There are a ton of websites that spell it out. I did a quick search and found one that's pretty good, but if you don't agree then do your own search. I would believe a true Biblical scholar before I would believe some evangelical preacher any day.
http://www.gayxjw.org/bible.html
Oh no, RUN FOR THE HILLS, a Democrat just quoted the bible out of context. Not in a million years.
Matt 12:32
32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
You know whats funny about a Democrat quoting the bible which they hate and dont believe in the first place, a Democrat quoting the bible which they hate and dont believe in the first place. In the next breath they will praise Islam as a peaceful religion.
Fortunately my Matthew quote isnt taken out of context because its not part of a BIGGER sub-story, so to speak. It means what it says, and says what it means.
Oh no, RUN FOR THE HILLS, a Democrat just quoted the bible out of context. Not in a million years.
Matt 12:32
32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
You know whats funny about a Democrat quoting the bible which they hate and dont believe in the first place, a Democrat quoting the bible which they hate and dont believe in the first place. In the next breath they will praise Islam as a peaceful religion.
Fortunately my Matthew quote isnt taken out of context because its not part of a BIGGER sub-story, so to speak. It means what it says, and says what it means.
You know what's funny to me?
Selfrighteous religious people who think they are better than others, just because they believe in some kind of God.
You good sir are making too many assumptions. You not only assume that I belong to a certain party (which I can't even wote for if I even wanted to) you also assume that I know nothing about the Bible and takes my quote out of context and thus completely miss my point. The quote was words spoken by Moses after taking land by violence, land that was promised to them by God. Moses even states that you are not allowed to add or remove anything from these words. The words are not taken out of context in any way as they are the commands given by Moses as a representative of God.
On top of this you come up with a quote that goes against what you try to say... that is if I understand you right that it is wrong to kill. This quote however can be interpreted as you can speak against other humans, but if you speak against God you'll not be forgiven, meaning that you'll be punished for speaking against God (punished could be: killed, sent to prison or thrown out of your home or country)
Both the Bible and the Koran are religious text describing important parts of said religions past. I stated quite clearly that it is all a question about how you interpret the writings. In what way is this taken out of context.
Bottom line is that most religious texts can be interpreted in whatever way you want to as long as you can justify it to yourself. In both the Bible and the Koran it is written that you should seek out and kill all nonbelievers, however it is also written that you should show mercy in both texts.
Nerf, what's your deal with calling everyone a Democrat that disagrees with you? I feel like I'm in the car with my radio stuck on Sean Hannity. Not every Republican follows their party lines, and likewise for the Democrats.
It seems like you are a sucker for conservative shock radio hosts. There's a real world out here where people actually think for themselves. We don't tune into a radio show to be told what to think.
There are some of us that are tired of both of the two big parties. So throwing those two names around means nothing to someone like me. You guys are just arguing on the periphery while we move on with new ideas.
Ok, for those appeasers still blaming the west for Islamic hatred of us, consider the following
1) Muslim technological superiority came from taking Roman ideas and building off them.
2) The Crusades were a defensive action. The first crusade was launched to protect Christian monuments in Jerusalem when the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was BURNED to the ground by the Islamic governor.
3) Muslims struck the first blow, extending their empire from Spain to India during their first hundred years through violent and bloody conquest. They were stopped in the middle of France by the French knights around 718-720. The Byzantine empire held on into the 15th century, but collapsed after 800 years of defensive war against the Muslims and Turks. Vienna, now in Austria, was threatened after the collapse, but held on. The Muslim invaders took young Christian boys from the Balkans and made them Janissaries, who essentially were slave soldiers.
4) All major conflicts in the world today are a result of Muslims fighting with or within their neighbors.
5) Not all Muslims are terrorists, but it can be said that most all terrorists are Muslim.
-Cloudoffire-
I'm confused by these statements...
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1.) Muslims came after the Roman's. Nearly every idea is built upon a prior idea. That doesn't take away from the innovation. It's just using what you have at the time. Are people supposed to throw away old ideas from time before them and just start all over?
4.) I would say that the major conflicts come from both religions. Christianity and it's diverse interpretations are tearing the U.S. apart right now. I've never seen so much arguing over which interpretation of who is going to hell is right. And remember the little tiffs between Catholics and Protestants? If this is your argument over which religion in the world is best then you need to check into Buddhism. It fits your criteria better.
5.) So what? What's the reason behind saying that? What does it ultimately mean? I have some neighbors who are Muslim. They're very nice. I have had dinner at their house many times and they are awesome. I'm not sure what your point is by saying this. It just makes no sense to me. So what am I supposed to leave my neighbors alone now or something? "Sorry neighbor, I can't talk to you anymore because most all terrorists are Muslims."
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I'm not defending the Muslim religion by saying this. I don't really care if someone is Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or worship a friggin' pineapple as long as they're a decent respectful and loving person. Get over the labels already.
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1) Our number system is based on the Arabic (Moslem) so what you are stating can be turned right back. Our superiority is based on what Moslems build off the Romans (who weren't even Chritians).
3) Moslems might have build an empire ranging from Spain to India. Although it wasn't an empire then there's not much difference in that and what was done in America after 1692 or a large part of the world during the colonization. Civilizations all over the world was Chritianized sometimes by violence. Civilizations was brought to the brink of destruction in the name of God.
4) Go ten years back and most major conflicts was between Christians and their neighbours. All that proves is that conflicts arise.
5) Take a look at the official terrorlist and you'll see that most terrorists are not Moslems. The only reason thinks most terrorists are Moslems is due to the fact that Moslems operate internationally while other organizations don't.
You seem to know history well, now all you need to do is to think it through and keep your eyes open. Always remember that history is written by the victorious. Think about this one... how can Djengis Khan be a villain in European history, but a hero in Asian History?
all regligions are stupid.
you might aswell believe in the easter bunny, santa claus and the tooth fairy.
if people actually researched thier various religions and where they came from and how they were created, theyd have second thoughts about believing such crap.
but alas, theyre brainwashed from day one and believe wat they are told.
Everyone that has posted on this topic has very good points about this entire situation. The fact still remains, the US is the acting "World Police" and the borg type mentality assimilate or die is very much at work all around the world.
1.Irans Nuclear "problem" and Iraqs mistreatment by Sadaam. A religious war is coming, and i feel that it will happen eventually here in the US and Abroad.
2. Iraq being a Strategic positioning for the 5 arabs States "Dead Center" .
3. Governments Make war not the people most of the time, but Iraqs behavior at this point almost justifies Sadaams control methods of the savages, and i use that term because of the nature and deployment of the violence that the Iraqi peolpe.
Yes the US Govnt invaded Iraq, but the people of the US did'nt. I feel that National Security in the Great "melting pot" has now been compromised by the introduction of Christian/Muslin tensions on a personal population level.
As far as Christianity is concerned, Our god loves all peoples no matter what race,,,,but it seems to me the Kuran must have a lot of violence built in, or the POV of the reader is masked by some sort of God Complexes the way certain groups have KIlled and Beheaded civilins.
The Presidential blunders have made Bush look like sadaam, but i dont see him being put on trial for War Crimes against the iraqi People, especially since we didnt find the Weapons Of Mass Destruction.
Conspiracy theorist, love this time of turmoil, and govnt love the propaganda campaigns....
Man will always be in turmoil until everyone realises that together we are a powerful force to be productive. War is destructive, and IMHO very barbaric.
If all Nations became One United Nation, with One World Police, with one world currency " And This is a Fortold thing i heard almost 15 years ago from a retired govnt official,,,, pulling together everything would progress, research on Diseases, the Hungry and homeless, Hell just the money saved on defense spending alone could help millions, but no lets go kill somebody....??? Sounds sane or responsible to wanyone else ??
Alternative fuels, Lessen the dependancy on OIL.
Greed,,,,,,War,,,,,Disasters,,,,,Weather Related Disaters,,,,,Seasons all confused,,,,,,Everyone needs to read the bible and quit fighting about it,,,,,,Familys no longer careing,,,,,,,Children being exploited,,,,,,,,Violence at an all time world High...
+ Germany never invaded since they were afraid of losing all the iron that Sweden sent them.
A) The Nazis did not make up a very small percentage of the germany army or populace. The Nazis made a good percentage, but not a majority, I'd say about 40%.
What is "IS"?
argh.. was going to quote that
What really makes me nervous in this discussion is the Christians that believe that they could end up like some Moslems are today.
It is a fact that the Bible has been used in a very similar way as the Koran is being used in some countries today. The inquisition is a very good example of that. Some fanatics in power used the bible to create a terror regime over most of Europe where anything or anyone going against the way they saw the bible were tortured and killed.
There are some Moslem countries today where the clergy and scholars interpret the Koran in a very strict way that pursue any nonbeliever. However there are also Moslem countries where they are just as devoted as the least believeing of Christians, where they actually eat pork and drink alcohol.
The world is not black and white, nor is Christianity the ever loving and tolerant religion. It has been interpreted in very strict ways and lead to state terror, oppression and killing of nonbelievers. If Christians refuse to accept this past and learn from it we will experience it again.
Well said here, allow me to add few things here...
1- In Iraq, the civil war exists because the so called Shiite exists there in majority, these Shiites or Sheas define other muslims are infidels, thus killing other muslims is allowed, and many of their Sada ( Shiites Mullas ) say these statements in many of their speeches, so basically, the war will go on if the US give power to the Shiites ( like they did with Iran, they gave power to the Khumainy ( the shiites leader ) and look what has happened now.
2- Islam is not a terrorist religion, Islam denounces terrorism, and declares every terrorist an infidel and he will be punished in hell for their crimes.
3- if you look back at the history, after Colombos uncovered the americas, the Europe Adminstration under king i don't know who went to the so called new world, and slaughtered half a billion native americans, WHY ON EARTH THIS WASN'T A TERRORIST ACT ? i mean come on, half a billion, then quarter of a billion in japan, and then another quarter around other wars in Veitnam, Iraq, Kuwait, Pelistine, that makes a frigin BILLION KILLED, by the christians authority, why is this vile act isn't considered terrorism ? because it's been done in the name of christianity and the bible, but any single act of God law enforcement muslims do is cosidered a ruthless act of terrorism.
4- get real people, get real and study more history, christianity and judaism and every other religion teaches this, if you join us you are guaranteed heaven right? islam doesn't teach that, islam is the only religion that guarantees you HELL, if you don't follow the rules, you go to hell, just like those Shiites and terrorists, they never follow the rules of islam, thus, they go to hell, even if what they do is in the name of Allah.
what more ? enough for today.
if you want to learn about the true islam, go to www.islamtoday.com or www.islamway.net
these two sites have very valuable information, also don't look at any other sites, because some sites about islam have been made by christian and jewish anti-islam people, only trust these 2 links about islam for now.