Originally posted by azhrarn WoW took the market by storm because it did something that no other game out on the market could claim -- it offered a mostly polished, very tightly tested and ready-for-live game to the market with an equally well done advertising blitz. WoW could have been anything at all and it would have done exactly what it did because they took the time and the manpower to do it right rather than releasing it half-assed, as has been the standard of the market for all too long now. And as much as many of us don't LIKE WoW, very few of us can say that we didn't play it for at least a little while and enjoyed the novel experience of playing a game that wasn't broken. These people want our money. All of them. But they just haven't figured out how to get it from us now that we are wiser consumers who are shy of spending after we got burned by SOE. Right now, their learning curve is pretty slow. They don't really understand the whole SOE debacle yet. SOME of them are still looking to SOE as a guide to success. But once they catch up on the learning curve, and figure out we're not going to buy junk anymore just because the market's full of it, perhaps we'll see a company ready to take our money again.
What a PERFECT STATEMENT couldnt have said it better than that, 3 cheers to azhrarn. What blizzard did wasnt anything real special, they just did it fair and square and WoW came out solid - something we really havent seen in any of these new MMO's aside from DAOC. Very good statement, many many cookies for you.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Originally posted by chocoborider What continues to amaze me about the SWG phenomenon is the very large number (if figures I'm seeing are accurate we're talking at least 150-200 thousand subsribers) of sophisticated gamers like myself, my closest friends, and the many regular posters I see on these boards that are BEGGING to have a comlex, sandbox style game like what SWG once offered...and yet no one, including the company who proved it could be done and got us hooked on that game style in the first place, seems to be willing to provide it. Seriously, no one wants a couple hundred thousand fanatically devoted, passionate customers?!! What is wrong with this picture? I've tried at least 5 MMORPG's and researched several more since SOE cancelled the game I liked to play...and NONE of them come close to offering the experience I loved. Was pre-CU SWG perfect? No, not even close...but it was much more mature, IMMERSIVE (a term once used almost as often as 'Star Warsy' and 'Iconic' but that seems to have fallen by the wayside), challenging, relational, and FUN. So $OE took a look at the pie, and threw away the chunk they had trying to get a different piece...they've already said how that's working for them, but what gets me is that NO ONE appears to be stepping up and delivering a serious offering to pick up the very respectable piece of pie that they cast to the wayside.
Just like you, I am a SWG refugee looking for a pre-cu style game; you say no-one wants our money but that is where you are mistaken. You are right that SOE does not give a *edit* BUT there I guess are a few companies that have seen the succes of the old SWG and are making a pre-cu style game.
Of course both of em have no StarWars characters in em, but I will play anything complex since I played the real SWG. And untill these games are released (should be a while) I prolly am gonna play VANGUARD.
Originally posted by chocoborider What continues to amaze me about the SWG phenomenon is the very large number (if figures I'm seeing are accurate we're talking at least 150-200 thousand subsribers) of sophisticated gamers like myself, my closest friends, and the many regular posters I see on these boards that are BEGGING to have a comlex, sandbox style game like what SWG once offered...and yet no one, including the company who proved it could be done and got us hooked on that game style in the first place, seems to be willing to provide it. Seriously, no one wants a couple hundred thousand fanatically devoted, passionate customers?!! What is wrong with this picture? I've tried at least 5 MMORPG's and researched several more since SOE cancelled the game I liked to play...and NONE of them come close to offering the experience I loved. Was pre-CU SWG perfect? No, not even close...but it was much more mature, IMMERSIVE (a term once used almost as often as 'Star Warsy' and 'Iconic' but that seems to have fallen by the wayside), challenging, relational, and FUN. So $OE took a look at the pie, and threw away the chunk they had trying to get a different piece...they've already said how that's working for them, but what gets me is that NO ONE appears to be stepping up and delivering a serious offering to pick up the very respectable piece of pie that they cast to the wayside.
Just like you, I am a SWG refugee looking for a pre-cu style game; you say no-one wants our money but that is where you are mistaken. You are right that SOE does not give a *edit* BUT there I guess are a few companies that have seen the succes of the old SWG and are making a pre-cu style game.
Of course both of em have no StarWars characters in em, but I will play anything complex since I played the real SWG. And untill these games are released (should be a while) I prolly am gonna play VANGUARD.
All I'm saying is to answer the question, "No One Want's Our Money?" one need only at how the playerbase reacted to the the two most publicized changes to the game to see why that might be. I highly doubt any developer is going to look at the mess after CU, and especially after NGE, and think that those are the people they want to put years of hardwork into a project to attract.
It's like when you read a newstory about a dog that attacks its family's small child. You don't think about the years upon years that the dog had been a good, loyal pet protecting the family. You just think, "I'm glad that wasn't my dog!" -d
What?!?!?!?!
In order for your analogy to work, the small child would have to be daily shooting the dog with a beebee gun and never feed it and just beat it for no reason. Then, when that pet attacks, people would say "Wow, that kid got what he deserved, its a wonder that dog didnt attack years ago".
Pffft. The analogy works fine. So what if the kid deserved it (and I think most people would agree in SWG's case the kid deserved it.) Would you want to have a dog in your house that will maul your kid if he/she happens to shoot it with a BB-gun when it's hungry? Most people would not.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
I'm not a Fantasy fan, but I (and my clan) will be playing this game. 5 years of Dev, a year of Alpha, a year of Beta, a deep crafting system, a deep harvesting system, diversity, persistent world, entertaining to a degree, player cities, mounts, ships, player strongholds, player housing & a world with FAR more depth than SWG. Heck, read the FAQ. It's a book, and it doesn't even begin to touch all of the game. And to top it all off, read some Dev posts. They listen to their community, and have open dialog with them.
Read the Forums, watch the movies and check out the Pics... it's the next level of gaming, and a clear successor to SWG ----------------------------------
A firend of mine, Jarik Spiegel, said one of the best things I've ever read about this. Almost poetic.
Ever since the movie "The Corporation"? There's an interesting story there about sustainablity which I think applies to this.
When man first attempted to fly, many of their attempts were really bad. Several people were injured, others even killed as they tried greater and fancier attempts at this. One particular video shows of a man who leapt off a cliff with this hideously useless contraption strapped to him.
As he falls off the cliff, he experiences a sense of euphoria. The wind is rushing by and he genuinely thinks he's flying when what's really happening is that he's free falling.
And sure enough, the ground is rushing up fast.
Point is, SWG and all their idiot devs may think their game is soaring; but lets face it. Gravity is as unforgiving as it is everpresent, and the ground is rushing up awfully fast...
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by JediGeek Overall, I can't figure out WHY LA is going along with this crap. They're alienating TONS of Star Wars fans. The hardcore crazy fans that have been fans since the original trilogy was first in theaters. The ones that were fans when it was NOT cool to be a SW fan. When SW fans were seen as geeks. (side note, I wear my SW geek tag with pride ) WE are the ones that LA should be falling over themselves to please. As to what Azhrarn said about female gamers, that's a significant change. Pre-CU, there were quite a few REAL females playing SWG. After the NGE, there seems to be VERY few. They HAD a product that was capturing that elusive female demographic from Sims Online and they tossed it away. I just don't understand it, it makes NO sense.
Because it is how LA wants it to be. They don't develop their own games anymore and most of their other titles sell because of the Star Wars name and not because of game quality. So now they are trying to make SWG more like a game that did do well, Star Wars Battlefront I & II.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by wolfeee Vanguard SoH I'm not a Fantasy fan, but I (and my clan) will be playing this game. 5 years of Dev, a year of Alpha, a year of Beta, a deep crafting system, a deep harvesting system, diversity, persistent world, entertaining to a degree, player cities, mounts, ships, player strongholds, player housing & a world with FAR more depth than SWG. Heck, read the FAQ. It's a book, and it doesn't even begin to touch all of the game. And to top it all off, read some Dev posts. They listen to their community, and have open dialog with them. Read the Forums, watch the movies and check out the Pics... it's the next level of gaming, and a clear successor to SWG ---------------------------------- It's class based...not skill based....
So? A class based system can be just as diverse, and this is far from a normal class-based system:
You can change you class up to a certain level to try different classes.
You have to learn skills, they are not given.
You can learn some skills from other professions.
There are different paths for each class.
There are Race specific abilities.
Classes are restricted by Race.
Races receive unique bonuses for each class.
There are 16 + Classes, 18 + Races.
There will be a HUGE amount of diversity.
Not mention the other differences. The character creation is almost better than SWG's.
It's not SWG, so you can't expect it to be exactly the same. If this one thing holds you back, I feel sorry for you.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
So? A class based system can be just as diverse, and this is far from a normal class-based system: [list]
[*]You can change you class up to a certain level to try different classes.
[*]You can learn some skills from other professions.
[*]There are different paths for each class.
[*]There are Race specific abilities.
[*]Classes are restricted by Race.
[*]There are 16 + Classes, 18 + Races.
[*]There will be a HUGE amount of diversity. [/list/[/quote]
This is my problem with "class-based" games. You can add all the diversity, but you are a class: Level 50 orc priest (with bard taunt and warrior spell of defense) Level 30 human fighter (with priest elite healing skill) Level 40 elvish ranger (with xyz skills from other classes) You cannot be human ranger (game says so)
In SWG you were YOU. Professions served your role. I like to fight (TK). When in towns, I like to make swoops (Master art), and since I can, I also ocassionally craft pups. If I find myself in med center, I'd help heal wounds (4xxx medic, or whatever it was).
What class am I? Healer? Warrior? Crafter? Am I ranger (I can do /medical forage, and use cdef for ranged attacks) Am I a tank, (plenty of melee in there), am I a wound healing doc? I have to be, since I have the ability to heal wounds.
A class based game, is where you are <level><class>. Anything else is just decoration. Will someone ask a healer priest to come tank? Hell, in SWG you could be TKM/Doc, and would perform both roles. But you could also go Pike/Swords/Fencer and be the "ultimate" tank. Or Defender, and once again a tank. Or pistoleer/smuggler/commando (or whatever the defense lines were) and tank with dodge. Hell, you could go as master armorsmith/suitable defense prof and tank.
This is what was lost.
Many Classes does not equal diversity. A class is a class is a class. Can you start as a warrior, then add ranged skills, drop part of warrior for healing, then take some crafting on the side, add some stealth skills, then drop part of ranged to get more in crafting, move back up warrior on the expense of ranged, etc. SWG allowed you to change and adapt. Class games cannot and will not be able to provide that. Nor do levels.
Is it six million? I only know of one MMORPG in the history of the genre that has done that. However, I can count the number of games that had 400,000 subscribers or more on one hand. Its a BIG achievement, and really a milestone.
All of this was done WITHOUT trial subs. WITHOUT advertising. WITHOUT the hype around Attack of the Clones, or Revenge of the Sith. By any reasonable measure, it was a success. I'm pretty sure that NCSoft, Blizzard, EA, and any of the big MMOG houses would have loved to have an SWG that can command 400,000 subscribers in its stable.
But when the game degenerated into camping spawns AFK, camping cantinas AFK, and healing the AFK tumblers on the floor instead of healing the injured, we can't expect 400,000 players to stay, and 400,000 to turn into 1 million or more.
When you uberize buffs, loot, and allow for invulnerable combinations of skills, we can't expect 400,000 players to stay. Because that is not what brought them to SWG.
The game was a master work. It was just very poorly maintained by the live team.
Now its evident that they are admiting defeat, and prepping the game for console. The game just works too good on a console controller to assume otherwise.
But that doesn't mean that a game like the original, sophisticated SWG can't be successful. SWG proved that it can. You don't even need to do much in terms of adding huge quantities of content.
But you can't get away with neglecting problems when they arise. You can't lie. You have to build on what works, and cannot be afraid to clamp down on AFK, exploits, and bugs.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Rekrul This is my problem with "class-based" games. You can add all the diversity, but you are a class: Level 50 orc priest (with bard taunt and warrior spell of defense) Level 30 human fighter (with priest elite healing skill) Level 40 elvish ranger (with xyz skills from other classes) You cannot be human ranger (game says so) In SWG you were YOU. Professions served your role. I like to fight (TK). When in towns, I like to make swoops (Master art), and since I can, I also ocassionally craft pups. If I find myself in med center, I'd help heal wounds (4xxx medic, or whatever it was). What class am I? Healer? Warrior? Crafter? Am I ranger (I can do /medical forage, and use cdef for ranged attacks) Am I a tank, (plenty of melee in there), am I a wound healing doc? I have to be, since I have the ability to heal wounds. A class based game, is where you are <level><class>. Anything else is just decoration. Will someone ask a healer priest to come tank? Hell, in SWG you could be TKM/Doc, and would perform both roles. But you could also go Pike/Swords/Fencer and be the "ultimate" tank. Or Defender, and once again a tank. Or pistoleer/smuggler/commando (or whatever the defense lines were) and tank with dodge. Hell, you could go as master armorsmith/suitable defense prof and tank. This is what was lost. Many Classes does not equal diversity. A class is a class is a class. Can you start as a warrior, then add ranged skills, drop part of warrior for healing, then take some crafting on the side, add some stealth skills, then drop part of ranged to get more in crafting, move back up warrior on the expense of ranged, etc. SWG allowed you to change and adapt. Class games cannot and will not be able to provide that. Nor do levels.
Not true, several of the human races can become Rangers.
It's clear you haven't read in detail what the game entails. You aren't just given skills, you have to practice & learn them. In some cases you must travel looong distances to do missions for a NPC, then at the end, you must duel the Master to learn the skill, then practice it & keep using it. If you don't use a skill you will eventually forget it. Also, you can't learn all skills, either because of race or the limits in the number of skills you can learn. What you get with this is variety. Read up on it, and watch the movies on the third party sites, and you'll see how deep the system is.
Last, the Dev's have said they are considering letting people forget their Class and start over. I have mixed feelings about this, but it is something I loved about SWG. That said, this is not SWG, but as far as a Deep Persistant world, this game is beyond SWG. WELL beyond.
In this game, IMO, there will be more diversity than SWG. Some may get hung up on the "class system" tag, but considering those are the classes of just 1 of three spheres of classes all players have, this game blows away SWG's diversity.
Here's just how diverse it will be:
Race: (Races have Male & Female, unique attributes & a HUGE amount of customization. More Races will be added. There are 3 Cont's, each is HUGE and the travel between them is not easy.)
Thestra Varanjar - Celtic/Scandinavian barbarians Dwarves High Elves Halflings Thestran Human Lesser Giant Vulmane - bipedal wolf
Qalia Varathari - dark barbarians Dark Elves Gnomes Mordebi - African Humans Qaliathari - Persian Humans Kurashasa - bipedal felines
Kojan Wood Elves Half Elves Goblins Kojani Human - Asian Human Orc Raki - Bipedal fox
All players choose 1 Class from each Sphere:
Adventure Sphere: (more to be added after launch)
Bard
Berserker
Battlemage
Cleric
Disciple
Dread Knight
Druid
Inquisitor
Monk
Necromancer
Palidan
Psionicist
Ranger
Rogue
Shaman
Sorcerer
Warrior
Crafting Sphere: (This is a player economy. To be great at something you need to specialize in it, for example, a Blacksmith who wants to make great armor needs to focus on it, or their armor will be weaker. Also, players need materials from eachother. They are still deciding if they want to give bonuses in combat for your Crafting Skills, such as an Armorsmith getting an Armor bonus. I hope they don't, personally.)
Herbalist: Potions and infusion
Blacksmith: Metal weapons, armor, vehicular and structural components
Woodcrafter: Wooden Structures, vehicles, furniture and weapon/armor components
Outfitter: cloth and leather armor and armor components and bags
Diplomacy Sphere: (This is like Faction, but MUCH more interactive. On top of your Class here, your Reputation also effects your Diplomacy. Your Dip also effects some abilities you can use in combat, such as "bluffing" a MOB, or having a greater understanding of an ability.)
Charlatan
Thug
Clergy
Philosopher
Bureaucrat
Demagogue
Aristocrat
Considering all of these have abilities you can learn, and MANY more abilities than the maximum you can learn, you can bet there will be Diversity like has never been seen before.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
I dont think having a "classed based" system is so bad, because there has got to be some sort of a distinction between them. Even pre-cu was classed based in a way, they just didnt call them classes and you could change at will.
The thing i hate most in mmo's is a strict level system. Forget about what class you are, that number beside your name is the most important thing. Its the reason i quit playing with the cu, because of those stupid numbers and how everything combat related revolves around them. It takes all the chance out of a game and its just looks to me like the lazy devs way of making character progression.
With all the talk recently of sandbox games, sophisticated gamers etc I have really been examing a lot of upcoming titles. I am at heart a Sci Fi fan, but I found the sandbox style and sense of community of Roma Victor pretty fascinating. Looks like no monthly fee on it either. I think I may give it a shot.
Class based can work. I think CoH/CoV is a pretty good example of how it can work.
You could choose a ranged AT. But just because you are a ranged AT, does not mean you can't do close in work, or play a support role.
Its true you can't do "tanking" work as well as a tanker or brute, but if hard pressed, one can fill the role as a corruptor or blaster. One cannot deal damage as effectively when playing a tanker or dominator, but the damage is good enough that if hard pressed, they can do the job.
The secret is to make all the content available to all the classes, and to allow every class to play some role, whether that is the role they are desigsned for, or not. The other secret is to make all the content possible to undertake successfully, but to do so using the strategy of each class. Content should have multiple ways to accomplish the same goal: be it sniping from range, using stealth, or running into mobs and slugging it out.
But SWG is not pursuing that model with their Iconic Professions. They are creating a system of rigid specialization that makes no single Iconic Profession capable in and of itself of participating in all the content. By choosing an Entertainer, one experiences Entertainer content at the exclusion of all the other content in the game. By pursuing Bounty Hunter, one experiences Bounty Hunter content at the expense of all the other content, like crafting.
That is why this model will fail for SWG. In order to experience the whole game, one needs to log off of their character, and log back on to a new one. This breaks the fundamental "hook" of persistant worlds. The cardinal sin of an MMOG is to give players a reason to log off, rather than to stay logged on. The problem with SWG today, is it requires a player to frequently log off and on in order to switch between mutually exclusive characters.
And every time they do, there is the chance they will say, "maybe I should log on to another game?"
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Mordah With all the talk recently of sandbox games, sophisticated gamers etc I have really been examing a lot of upcoming titles. I am at heart a Sci Fi fan, but I found the sandbox style and sense of community of Roma Victor pretty fascinating. Looks like no monthly fee on it either. I think I may give it a shot. http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3284
i agree!
and then seeing how enthusiastic the game developers are...
Originally posted by Mordah With all the talk recently of sandbox games, sophisticated gamers etc I have really been examing a lot of upcoming titles. I am at heart a Sci Fi fan, but I found the sandbox style and sense of community of Roma Victor pretty fascinating. Looks like no monthly fee on it either. I think I may give it a shot. http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3284
A good friend of mine, and Beta to NGE SWG player, tried the Beta for RV, and said it was no where NEAR ready for live. He said the graphics were disappointing, and the game play was boring overall. He said it was more a historical simulator than a RPG.
Anyone else tried it and have some insight?
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by MX13 A good friend of mine, and Beta to NGE SWG player, tried the Beta for RV, and said it was no where NEAR ready for live. He said the graphics were disappointing, and the game play was boring overall. He said it was more a historical simulator than a RPG. Anyone else tried it and have some insight?
I think they have graphics turned way down for testing purposes. Also, the game has a few months until it is released, so of course it's not ready for live yet.
I've only been in the game for a few hours total, but I think it's going to be one of those games that are boring at the beginning, but really fun once you are into the higher gameplay. And it is going to be heavy on the historical simulator. But I think that is half of the fun.
[quote]Originally posted by Mordah [b]With all the talk recently of sandbox games, sophisticated gamers etc I have really been examing a lot of upcoming titles. I am at heart a Sci Fi fan, but I found the sandbox style and sense of community of Roma Victor pretty fascinating. Looks like no monthly fee on it either. I think I may give it a shot. [url=http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3284][/b][/quote]
The game looks pretty cool. The thing that scares me though is how they will make their money, by exchanging in game currencty for rl cash. >.<
"For example, we can adjust the difficulty associated to earning currency in-game to make sure that the majority of players need only make a modest purchase of Sesterces in order to supplement their in-game income and maximise their enjoyment of the service. Of course there will be those who choose the harder route of paying less, if anything and these players will have to work hard in the game in order to continue to survive and progress. And at the other end of the spectrum there will be those that spend much more when purchasing Sesterces so that they can buy extravagant properties, hire many NPC's and benefit from all the most expensive items and in-game services without necessarily having to spend days and weeks accruing these virtual assets."
ugh. I guess they figured that gold farmers will be doing it anyways, so they might as well cash in. I just dont like the idea, it doesnt put everyone on a level playing field from what i can see. It kinda sounds like soe's idea to make people spend rl money for in game items because they'll spend more money that way.
What i dont get is the reason they say they are doing it is to get maximum value for people, but if someone cant spend alot of time playing, so they have to pay more for their stuff to keep up, they are spending more money for less time playing then they would if there was just a reg 15 a month. I dunno maybe im not getting it. Stuff like this makes me wary, i like to be competitive in mmo's, but i dont have alot of spare cash. This game doesnt sound friendly to someone like me.
Originally posted by LilT [quote]Originally posted by Mordah [b]With all the talk recently of sandbox games, sophisticated gamers etc I have really been examing a lot of upcoming titles. I am at heart a Sci Fi fan, but I found the sandbox style and sense of community of Roma Victor pretty fascinating. Looks like no monthly fee on it either. I think I may give it a shot. [url=http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3284][/b][/quote] The game looks pretty cool. The thing that scares me though is how they will make their money, by exchanging in game currencty for rl cash. >.< "For example, we can adjust the difficulty associated to earning currency in-game to make sure that the majority of players need only make a modest purchase of Sesterces in order to supplement their in-game income and maximise their enjoyment of the service. Of course there will be those who choose the harder route of paying less, if anything and these players will have to work hard in the game in order to continue to survive and progress. And at the other end of the spectrum there will be those that spend much more when purchasing Sesterces so that they can buy extravagant properties, hire many NPC's and benefit from all the most expensive items and in-game services without necessarily having to spend days and weeks accruing these virtual assets." ugh. I guess they figured that gold farmers will be doing it anyways, so they might as well cash in. I just dont like the idea, it doesnt put everyone on a level playing field from what i can see. It kinda sounds like soe's idea to make people spend rl money for in game items because they'll spend more money that way. What i dont get is the reason they say they are doing it is to get maximum value for people, but if someone cant spend alot of time playing, so they have to pay more for their stuff to keep up, they are spending more money for less time playing then they would if there was just a reg 15 a month. I dunno maybe im not getting it. Stuff like this makes me wary, i like to be competitive in mmo's, but i dont have alot of spare cash. This game doesnt sound friendly to someone like me.
wrong... they are selling ingame cash because they actually need an income the game has no monthly fee. Also, if you do well, you can earn enough money to not need to "buy" money
Also, buying tons of money wont actually allow those people to buy "uber sword of devastating death and destruction +86779798675" items, having alot of sesterces allows the person to live in greater luxury but wont give amazing benefits.
then seeing how enthusiastic the devs are (they havent seen a single paycheck from the game yet!) its probably gonna be a great game.
Also, graphics are set to minimum for testing purposes.
sorry, i know this is a "Damn SOE!!!" thread but just had to reply to the last thread
Originally posted by LilT [quote]Originally posted by Mordah[b]With all the talk recently of sandbox games, sophisticated gamers etc I have really been examing a lot of upcoming titles. I am at heart a Sci Fi fan, but I found the sandbox style and sense of community of Roma Victor pretty fascinating. Looks like no monthly fee on it either. I think I may give it a shot.[url=http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3284][/b][/quote] The game looks pretty cool. The thing that scares me though is how they will make their money, by exchanging in game currencty for rl cash. >.< "For example, we can adjust the difficulty associated to earning currency in-game to make sure that the majority of players need only make a modest purchase of Sesterces in order to supplement their in-game income and maximise their enjoyment of the service. Of course there will be those who choose the harder route of paying less, if anything and these players will have to work hard in the game in order to continue to survive and progress. And at the other end of the spectrum there will be those that spend much more when purchasing Sesterces so that they can buy extravagant properties, hire many NPC's and benefit from all the most expensive items and in-game services without necessarily having to spend days and weeks accruing these virtual assets." ugh. I guess they figured that gold farmers will be doing it anyways, so they might as well cash in. I just dont like the idea, it doesnt put everyone on a level playing field from what i can see. It kinda sounds like soe's idea to make people spend rl money for in game items because they'll spend more money that way. What i dont get is the reason they say they are doing it is to get maximum value for people, but if someone cant spend alot of time playing, so they have to pay more for their stuff to keep up, they are spending more money for less time playing then they would if there was just a reg 15 a month. I dunno maybe im not getting it. Stuff like this makes me wary, i like to be competitive in mmo's, but i dont have alot of spare cash. This game doesnt sound friendly to someone like me.
wrong... they are selling ingame cash because they actually need an income the game has no monthly fee. Also, if you do well, you can earn enough money to not need to "buy" money Also, buying tons of money wont actually allow those people to buy "uber sword of devastating death and destruction +86779798675" items, having alot of sesterces allows the person to live in greater luxury but wont give amazing benefits. then seeing how enthusiastic the devs are (they havent seen a single paycheck from the game yet!) its probably gonna be a great game. Also, graphics are set to minimum for testing purposes. sorry, i know this is a "Damn SOE!!!" thread but just had to reply to the last thread
[/b][/quote]
We have enough of those threads already
I guess i can see why they are doing it, but im still sceptical. I guess i'll just have to find out if it works before i dismiss a really cool looking game.
You know what cracks me up about the "who'd want a bunch of high-maintenance fanbois that would shit on your good name" responses? They completely neglect to mention that that selfsame group of people played that game fairthfully and fanatically, despite broken promises, outright lies and blatant abuse by the game company for YEARS before finally turning around and going apeshit on them. These are the same people who forgave the great smuggler lie for years.
Every game community whines. Don't believe me? Go look at WoW players. Talk about your spoiled, whiney babies. Difference is, the SWG whiners stuck around, offered great ideas, supported their game and did everything in their power to help it become a better, more successful venture despite all the abuse and all the BS that SOE gave them and WoW whiners just bitch a lot about a game that is twice as polished and then quit, only to find some new game to cry about.
Fact is, former SWG players are among the most forgiving, most helpful and least difficult gamers a company could hope to have in its customer base. Are we wreaking havoc and raining hell now? Of course. But then, most of us have an awful lot to complain about. Unlike people who cry about how much WoW sucks -- which seems to be the majority of WoW's playerbase.
To borrow the dog analogy, all dogs bite. It's all a question of when and why.
The thing is...much of the community did a lot of 'barking' BEFORE they bit. Those years of loyalty were filled with a lot of warnings..."We still love you, and we know you're young and working things out Timmy, but shoot me with that bb gun again and I'll take your hand off."
In the dog world, barking is a warning...in the people world, we wine/complain. A good business owner APPRECIATES the customers that complain - because for every one that takes the time to say something, ten more probably just walked out the door and took their business with them, without giving a chance to put things right or letting the business know what the problem was.
Instead of responding to the barking with some much needed dog treats and and apology, SOE apparently decided the best response was to take the 'dogs' in to have their teeth removed and get them spayed/neutered.
And then they have the nerve to complain when the dogs turned on them and ripped them to pieces in the vet's office.
"But we were doing this for your own good!"
Well, guess what, most of those 'dogs' that stuck around have now proven to be a neutered and toothless customer base that can no longer propogate itself nor hunt/bring in the paper...
*Okay REALLY stretching, but I'm enjoying the thread and like seeing it keep going.*
Yea, I just love seeing the games I play, and seeing what the people gripe about. Watching the WoW boards, LOL, I can't get over some of the stupidest crap they decide to complain about. "My ____ (insert profession type) was nerfed, because before the last patch I could solo 3 _____s now I can't solo but 1 at a time without loosing my pet." or some stupid crap.
I want to post on there, "Why don't you take your ability to solo 3 of those overgrown maggots or whatever it is you're fighting, and imagine how it would be if you suddenly couldn't cast spells, or if you did cast the spells, they just didn't do anything. Then come to me and know how it was when SWG went to hell and tried to take me with it. Now SHUT UP AND PLAY, instead of griping about something that doesn't matter."
I also play City of Heroes/Villains. OH, MY, GOD, how many people are going to gripe about the fact that they used to be able to improve their powers by 300% and now they can only improve it by 100%. I have tried to tell them, It's becuase of PvP, which you are damn lucky they ever even decided to make a part of the game. Because they could have just suddenly decided that they would make your character unable to use his powers, so that instead of pretending to be Superman and standing up to the big bad monster, you were more like Jimmy Olsen, and standing on the sidelines, taking screenshots and saying. "Gosh, thanks for making me a stupid photographer."
Originally posted by azhrarn
You know what cracks me up about the "who'd want a bunch of high-maintenance fanbois that would shit on your good name" responses? They completely neglect to mention that that selfsame group of people played that game fairthfully and fanatically, despite broken promises, outright lies and blatant abuse by the game company for YEARS before finally turning around and going apeshit on them. These are the same people who forgave the great smuggler lie for years.
Every game community whines. Don't believe me? Go look at WoW players. Talk about your spoiled, whiney babies. Difference is, the SWG whiners stuck around, offered great ideas, supported their game and did everything in their power to help it become a better, more successful venture despite all the abuse and all the BS that SOE gave them and WoW whiners just bitch a lot about a game that is twice as polished and then quit, only to find some new game to cry about.
Fact is, former SWG players are among the most forgiving, most helpful and least difficult gamers a company could hope to have in its customer base. Are we wreaking havoc and raining hell now? Of course. But then, most of us have an awful lot to complain about. Unlike people who cry about how much WoW sucks -- which seems to be the majority of WoW's playerbase.
To borrow the dog analogy, all dogs bite. It's all a question of when and why.
Originally posted by azhrarn You know what cracks me up about the "who'd want a bunch of high-maintenance fanbois that would shit on your good name" responses? They completely neglect to mention that that selfsame group of people played that game fairthfully and fanatically, despite broken promises, outright lies and blatant abuse by the game company for YEARS before finally turning around and going apeshit on them. These are the same people who forgave the great smuggler lie for years. Every game community whines. Don't believe me? Go look at WoW players. Talk about your spoiled, whiney babies. Difference is, the SWG whiners stuck around, offered great ideas, supported their game and did everything in their power to help it become a better, more successful venture despite all the abuse and all the BS that SOE gave them and WoW whiners just bitch a lot about a game that is twice as polished and then quit, only to find some new game to cry about. Fact is, former SWG players are among the most forgiving, most helpful and least difficult gamers a company could hope to have in its customer base. Are we wreaking havoc and raining hell now? Of course. But then, most of us have an awful lot to complain about. Unlike people who cry about how much WoW sucks -- which seems to be the majority of WoW's playerbase. To borrow the dog analogy, all dogs bite. It's all a question of when and why.
All excellent points, and right on the money. We were loyal and at least kept our complaints to the SWG forums untill they dropped the first CU. I for one never complained on the forums until the CU. I only went there occasionally to ask or answer a question or two about gameplay and maybe bid on an item. The closest I came to complaining was sending an email voicing my opinion on the great creature handler nerf.
All in all, Id say the community put up with a whole lot before they started biting or at least before they started drawing blood. LOL
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Comments
What a PERFECT STATEMENT couldnt have said it better than that, 3 cheers to azhrarn. What blizzard did wasnt anything real special, they just did it fair and square and WoW came out solid - something we really havent seen in any of these new MMO's aside from DAOC. Very good statement, many many cookies for you.
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Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
Just like you, I am a SWG refugee looking for a pre-cu style game; you say no-one wants our money but that is where you are mistaken. You are right that SOE does not give a *edit* BUT there I guess are a few companies that have seen the succes of the old SWG and are making a pre-cu style game.
The first game I found is AFRICA, not released yet , but clearly the game that does have the most in common with pre-cu. http://www.africammo.com/content.aspx?function=Downloads
the second one is gonna be Trials of Ascension; a more hardcore version of the pre-cu style http://www.shadowpool.com/index.php
Of course both of em have no StarWars characters in em, but I will play anything complex since I played the real SWG. And untill these games are released (should be a while) I prolly am gonna play VANGUARD.
Jigered.
Just like you, I am a SWG refugee looking for a pre-cu style game; you say no-one wants our money but that is where you are mistaken. You are right that SOE does not give a *edit* BUT there I guess are a few companies that have seen the succes of the old SWG and are making a pre-cu style game.
The first game I found is AFRICA, not released yet , but clearly the game that does have the most in common with pre-cu. http://www.africammo.com/content.aspx?function=Downloads
the second one is gonna be Trials of Ascension; a more hardcore version of the pre-cu style http://www.shadowpool.com/index.php
Of course both of em have no StarWars characters in em, but I will play anything complex since I played the real SWG. And untill these games are released (should be a while) I prolly am gonna play VANGUARD.
Jigered.
What?!?!?!?!
In order for your analogy to work, the small child would have to be daily shooting the dog with a beebee gun and never feed it and just beat it for no reason. Then, when that pet attacks, people would say "Wow, that kid got what he deserved, its a wonder that dog didnt attack years ago".
Pffft. The analogy works fine. So what if the kid deserved it (and I think most people would agree in SWG's case the kid deserved it.) Would you want to have a dog in your house that will maul your kid if he/she happens to shoot it with a BB-gun when it's hungry? Most people would not.
-d
Waiting on: Pirates of the Burning Sea and Pirates of the Carribean Online
Vanguard SoH
I'm not a Fantasy fan, but I (and my clan) will be playing this game. 5 years of Dev, a year of Alpha, a year of Beta, a deep crafting system, a deep harvesting system, diversity, persistent world, entertaining to a degree, player cities, mounts, ships, player strongholds, player housing & a world with FAR more depth than SWG. Heck, read the FAQ. It's a book, and it doesn't even begin to touch all of the game. And to top it all off, read some Dev posts. They listen to their community, and have open dialog with them.
Read the Forums, watch the movies and check out the Pics... it's the next level of gaming, and a clear successor to SWG
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It's class based...not skill based....
A firend of mine, Jarik Spiegel, said one of the best things I've ever read about this. Almost poetic.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Because it is how LA wants it to be. They don't develop their own games anymore and most of their other titles sell because of the Star Wars name and not because of game quality. So now they are trying to make SWG more like a game that did do well, Star Wars Battlefront I & II.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
So? A class based system can be just as diverse, and this is far from a normal class-based system:
Not mention the other differences. The character creation is almost better than SWG's.
It's not SWG, so you can't expect it to be exactly the same. If this one thing holds you back, I feel sorry for you.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
[quote]Originally posted by MX13
[b]
So? A class based system can be just as diverse, and this is far from a normal class-based system:
[list]
[*]You can change you class up to a certain level to try different classes.
[*]You can learn some skills from other professions.
[*]There are different paths for each class.
[*]There are Race specific abilities.
[*]Classes are restricted by Race.
[*]There are 16 + Classes, 18 + Races.
[*]There will be a HUGE amount of diversity.
[/list/[/quote]
This is my problem with "class-based" games. You can add all the diversity, but you are a class:
Level 50 orc priest (with bard taunt and warrior spell of defense)
Level 30 human fighter (with priest elite healing skill)
Level 40 elvish ranger (with xyz skills from other classes)
You cannot be human ranger (game says so)
In SWG you were YOU. Professions served your role. I like to fight (TK). When in towns, I like to make swoops (Master art), and since I can, I also ocassionally craft pups. If I find myself in med center, I'd help heal wounds (4xxx medic, or whatever it was).
What class am I? Healer? Warrior? Crafter? Am I ranger (I can do /medical forage, and use cdef for ranged attacks) Am I a tank, (plenty of melee in there), am I a wound healing doc? I have to be, since I have the ability to heal wounds.
A class based game, is where you are <level><class>. Anything else is just decoration. Will someone ask a healer priest to come tank? Hell, in SWG you could be TKM/Doc, and would perform both roles. But you could also go Pike/Swords/Fencer and be the "ultimate" tank. Or Defender, and once again a tank. Or pistoleer/smuggler/commando (or whatever the defense lines were) and tank with dodge. Hell, you could go as master armorsmith/suitable defense prof and tank.
This is what was lost.
Many Classes does not equal diversity. A class is a class is a class. Can you start as a warrior, then add ranged skills, drop part of warrior for healing, then take some crafting on the side, add some stealth skills, then drop part of ranged to get more in crafting, move back up warrior on the expense of ranged, etc. SWG allowed you to change and adapt. Class games cannot and will not be able to provide that. Nor do levels.
This game had 400,000 subscribers at its height.
Is it six million? I only know of one MMORPG in the history of the genre that has done that. However, I can count the number of games that had 400,000 subscribers or more on one hand. Its a BIG achievement, and really a milestone.
All of this was done WITHOUT trial subs. WITHOUT advertising. WITHOUT the hype around Attack of the Clones, or Revenge of the Sith. By any reasonable measure, it was a success. I'm pretty sure that NCSoft, Blizzard, EA, and any of the big MMOG houses would have loved to have an SWG that can command 400,000 subscribers in its stable.
But when the game degenerated into camping spawns AFK, camping cantinas AFK, and healing the AFK tumblers on the floor instead of healing the injured, we can't expect 400,000 players to stay, and 400,000 to turn into 1 million or more.
When you uberize buffs, loot, and allow for invulnerable combinations of skills, we can't expect 400,000 players to stay. Because that is not what brought them to SWG.
The game was a master work. It was just very poorly maintained by the live team.
Now its evident that they are admiting defeat, and prepping the game for console. The game just works too good on a console controller to assume otherwise.
But that doesn't mean that a game like the original, sophisticated SWG can't be successful. SWG proved that it can. You don't even need to do much in terms of adding huge quantities of content.
But you can't get away with neglecting problems when they arise. You can't lie. You have to build on what works, and cannot be afraid to clamp down on AFK, exploits, and bugs.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Not true, several of the human races can become Rangers.
It's clear you haven't read in detail what the game entails. You aren't just given skills, you have to practice & learn them. In some cases you must travel looong distances to do missions for a NPC, then at the end, you must duel the Master to learn the skill, then practice it & keep using it. If you don't use a skill you will eventually forget it. Also, you can't learn all skills, either because of race or the limits in the number of skills you can learn. What you get with this is variety. Read up on it, and watch the movies on the third party sites, and you'll see how deep the system is.
Last, the Dev's have said they are considering letting people forget their Class and start over. I have mixed feelings about this, but it is something I loved about SWG. That said, this is not SWG, but as far as a Deep Persistant world, this game is beyond SWG. WELL beyond.
In this game, IMO, there will be more diversity than SWG. Some may get hung up on the "class system" tag, but considering those are the classes of just 1 of three spheres of classes all players have, this game blows away SWG's diversity.
Here's just how diverse it will be:
Race: (Races have Male & Female, unique attributes & a HUGE amount of customization. More Races will be added. There are 3 Cont's, each is HUGE and the travel between them is not easy.)
Thestra
Varanjar - Celtic/Scandinavian barbarians
Dwarves
High Elves
Halflings
Thestran Human
Lesser Giant
Vulmane - bipedal wolf
Qalia
Varathari - dark barbarians
Dark Elves
Gnomes
Mordebi - African Humans
Qaliathari - Persian Humans
Kurashasa - bipedal felines
Kojan
Wood Elves
Half Elves
Goblins
Kojani Human - Asian Human
Orc
Raki - Bipedal fox
All players choose 1 Class from each Sphere:
Adventure Sphere: (more to be added after launch)
Crafting Sphere: (This is a player economy. To be great at something you need to specialize in it, for example, a Blacksmith who wants to make great armor needs to focus on it, or their armor will be weaker. Also, players need materials from eachother. They are still deciding if they want to give bonuses in combat for your Crafting Skills, such as an Armorsmith getting an Armor bonus. I hope they don't, personally.)
Diplomacy Sphere: (This is like Faction, but MUCH more interactive. On top of your Class here, your Reputation also effects your Diplomacy. Your Dip also effects some abilities you can use in combat, such as "bluffing" a MOB, or having a greater understanding of an ability.)
Considering all of these have abilities you can learn, and MANY more abilities than the maximum you can learn, you can bet there will be Diversity like has never been seen before.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
I dont think having a "classed based" system is so bad, because there has got to be some sort of a distinction between them. Even pre-cu was classed based in a way, they just didnt call them classes and you could change at will.
The thing i hate most in mmo's is a strict level system. Forget about what class you are, that number beside your name is the most important thing. Its the reason i quit playing with the cu, because of those stupid numbers and how everything combat related revolves around them. It takes all the chance out of a game and its just looks to me like the lazy devs way of making character progression.
For the Horde!
With all the talk recently of sandbox games, sophisticated gamers etc I have really been examing a lot of upcoming titles. I am at heart a Sci Fi fan, but I found the sandbox style and sense of community of Roma Victor pretty fascinating. Looks like no monthly fee on it either. I think I may give it a shot.
http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3284
Class based can work. I think CoH/CoV is a pretty good example of how it can work.
You could choose a ranged AT. But just because you are a ranged AT, does not mean you can't do close in work, or play a support role.
Its true you can't do "tanking" work as well as a tanker or brute, but if hard pressed, one can fill the role as a corruptor or blaster. One cannot deal damage as effectively when playing a tanker or dominator, but the damage is good enough that if hard pressed, they can do the job.
The secret is to make all the content available to all the classes, and to allow every class to play some role, whether that is the role they are desigsned for, or not. The other secret is to make all the content possible to undertake successfully, but to do so using the strategy of each class. Content should have multiple ways to accomplish the same goal: be it sniping from range, using stealth, or running into mobs and slugging it out.
But SWG is not pursuing that model with their Iconic Professions. They are creating a system of rigid specialization that makes no single Iconic Profession capable in and of itself of participating in all the content. By choosing an Entertainer, one experiences Entertainer content at the exclusion of all the other content in the game. By pursuing Bounty Hunter, one experiences Bounty Hunter content at the expense of all the other content, like crafting.
That is why this model will fail for SWG. In order to experience the whole game, one needs to log off of their character, and log back on to a new one. This breaks the fundamental "hook" of persistant worlds. The cardinal sin of an MMOG is to give players a reason to log off, rather than to stay logged on. The problem with SWG today, is it requires a player to frequently log off and on in order to switch between mutually exclusive characters.
And every time they do, there is the chance they will say, "maybe I should log on to another game?"
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
i agree!
and then seeing how enthusiastic the game developers are...
A good friend of mine, and Beta to NGE SWG player, tried the Beta for RV, and said it was no where NEAR ready for live. He said the graphics were disappointing, and the game play was boring overall. He said it was more a historical simulator than a RPG.
Anyone else tried it and have some insight?
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
I think they have graphics turned way down for testing purposes. Also, the game has a few months until it is released, so of course it's not ready for live yet.
I've only been in the game for a few hours total, but I think it's going to be one of those games that are boring at the beginning, but really fun once you are into the higher gameplay. And it is going to be heavy on the historical simulator. But I think that is half of the fun.
[quote]Originally posted by Mordah
[b]With all the talk recently of sandbox games, sophisticated gamers etc I have really been examing a lot of upcoming titles. I am at heart a Sci Fi fan, but I found the sandbox style and sense of community of Roma Victor pretty fascinating. Looks like no monthly fee on it either. I think I may give it a shot.
[url=http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3284][/b][/quote]
The game looks pretty cool. The thing that scares me though is how they will make their money, by exchanging in game currencty for rl cash. >.<
"For example, we can adjust the difficulty associated to earning currency in-game to make sure that the majority of players need only make a modest purchase of Sesterces in order to supplement their in-game income and maximise their enjoyment of the service. Of course there will be those who choose the harder route of paying less, if anything and these players will have to work hard in the game in order to continue to survive and progress. And at the other end of the spectrum there will be those that spend much more when purchasing Sesterces so that they can buy extravagant properties, hire many NPC's and benefit from all the most expensive items and in-game services without necessarily having to spend days and weeks accruing these virtual assets."
ugh. I guess they figured that gold farmers will be doing it anyways, so they might as well cash in. I just dont like the idea, it doesnt put everyone on a level playing field from what i can see. It kinda sounds like soe's idea to make people spend rl money for in game items because they'll spend more money that way.
What i dont get is the reason they say they are doing it is to get maximum value for people, but if someone cant spend alot of time playing, so they have to pay more for their stuff to keep up, they are spending more money for less time playing then they would if there was just a reg 15 a month. I dunno maybe im not getting it. Stuff like this makes me wary, i like to be competitive in mmo's, but i dont have alot of spare cash. This game doesnt sound friendly to someone like me.
For the Horde!
wrong... they are selling ingame cash because they actually need an income
the game has no monthly fee. Also, if you do well, you can earn enough money to not need to "buy" money 
Also, buying tons of money wont actually allow those people to buy "uber sword of devastating death and destruction +86779798675" items, having alot of sesterces allows the person to live in greater luxury but wont give amazing benefits.
then seeing how enthusiastic the devs are (they havent seen a single paycheck from the game yet!) its probably gonna be a great game.
Also, graphics are set to minimum for testing purposes.
sorry, i know this is a "Damn SOE!!!" thread but just had to reply to the last thread
[quote]Originally posted by Meon
[b]
Originally posted by LilT
[quote]Originally posted by Mordah[b]With all the talk recently of sandbox games, sophisticated gamers etc I have really been examing a lot of upcoming titles. I am at heart a Sci Fi fan, but I found the sandbox style and sense of community of Roma Victor pretty fascinating. Looks like no monthly fee on it either. I think I may give it a shot.[url=http://www.roma-victor.com/community/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3284][/b][/quote]
The game looks pretty cool. The thing that scares me though is how they will make their money, by exchanging in game currencty for rl cash. >.<
"For example, we can adjust the difficulty associated to earning currency in-game to make sure that the majority of players need only make a modest purchase of Sesterces in order to supplement their in-game income and maximise their enjoyment of the service. Of course there will be those who choose the harder route of paying less, if anything and these players will have to work hard in the game in order to continue to survive and progress. And at the other end of the spectrum there will be those that spend much more when purchasing Sesterces so that they can buy extravagant properties, hire many NPC's and benefit from all the most expensive items and in-game services without necessarily having to spend days and weeks accruing these virtual assets."
ugh. I guess they figured that gold farmers will be doing it anyways, so they might as well cash in. I just dont like the idea, it doesnt put everyone on a level playing field from what i can see. It kinda sounds like soe's idea to make people spend rl money for in game items because they'll spend more money that way.
What i dont get is the reason they say they are doing it is to get maximum value for people, but if someone cant spend alot of time playing, so they have to pay more for their stuff to keep up, they are spending more money for less time playing then they would if there was just a reg 15 a month. I dunno maybe im not getting it. Stuff like this makes me wary, i like to be competitive in mmo's, but i dont have alot of spare cash. This game doesnt sound friendly to someone like me.
wrong... they are selling ingame cash because they actually need an income
Also, buying tons of money wont actually allow those people to buy "uber sword of devastating death and destruction +86779798675" items, having alot of sesterces allows the person to live in greater luxury but wont give amazing benefits.
then seeing how enthusiastic the devs are (they havent seen a single paycheck from the game yet!) its probably gonna be a great game.
Also, graphics are set to minimum for testing purposes.
sorry, i know this is a "Damn SOE!!!" thread but just had to reply to the last thread
[/b][/quote]
We have enough of those threads already
I guess i can see why they are doing it, but im still sceptical. I guess i'll just have to find out if it works before i dismiss a really cool looking game.
For the Horde!
You know what cracks me up about the "who'd want a bunch of high-maintenance fanbois that would shit on your good name" responses? They completely neglect to mention that that selfsame group of people played that game fairthfully and fanatically, despite broken promises, outright lies and blatant abuse by the game company for YEARS before finally turning around and going apeshit on them. These are the same people who forgave the great smuggler lie for years.
Every game community whines. Don't believe me? Go look at WoW players. Talk about your spoiled, whiney babies. Difference is, the SWG whiners stuck around, offered great ideas, supported their game and did everything in their power to help it become a better, more successful venture despite all the abuse and all the BS that SOE gave them and WoW whiners just bitch a lot about a game that is twice as polished and then quit, only to find some new game to cry about.
Fact is, former SWG players are among the most forgiving, most helpful and least difficult gamers a company could hope to have in its customer base. Are we wreaking havoc and raining hell now? Of course. But then, most of us have an awful lot to complain about. Unlike people who cry about how much WoW sucks -- which seems to be the majority of WoW's playerbase.
To borrow the dog analogy, all dogs bite. It's all a question of when and why.
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Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
The thing is...much of the community did a lot of 'barking' BEFORE they bit. Those years of loyalty were filled with a lot of warnings..."We still love you, and we know you're young and working things out Timmy, but shoot me with that bb gun again and I'll take your hand off."
In the dog world, barking is a warning...in the people world, we wine/complain. A good business owner APPRECIATES the customers that complain - because for every one that takes the time to say something, ten more probably just walked out the door and took their business with them, without giving a chance to put things right or letting the business know what the problem was.
Instead of responding to the barking with some much needed dog treats and and apology, SOE apparently decided the best response was to take the 'dogs' in to have their teeth removed and get them spayed/neutered.
And then they have the nerve to complain when the dogs turned on them and ripped them to pieces in the vet's office.
"But we were doing this for your own good!"
Well, guess what, most of those 'dogs' that stuck around have now proven to be a neutered and toothless customer base that can no longer propogate itself nor hunt/bring in the paper...
*Okay REALLY stretching, but I'm enjoying the thread and like seeing it keep going.*
All excellent points, and right on the money. We were loyal and at least kept our complaints to the SWG forums untill they dropped the first CU. I for one never complained on the forums until the CU. I only went there occasionally to ask or answer a question or two about gameplay and maybe bid on an item. The closest I came to complaining was sending an email voicing my opinion on the great creature handler nerf.
All in all, Id say the community put up with a whole lot before they started biting or at least before they started drawing blood. LOL
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin