When you are hard pressed for money you can do some stupid things. They are just trying to get what they need to keep going. If they dont catch the eye of an investor soon, they could be in trouble.
When you are hard pressed for money you can do some stupid things. They are just trying to get what they need to keep going. If they dont catch the eye of an investor soon, they could be in trouble.
No worries, Jeromy Walsh recently said that they had already been approached by several prospective investors and publishers. Money is no object now.
Presumably they are just evaluating the offers to see which one is prepared to give them the best deal.
Regardless of the CiG comparisons they are directly to blame for this as they set the precedent, and until they outright fail it will give people the license to promise the world (in Roberts case the universe) and deliver little or nothing. Then even if you make more money than you need, find ways to make even more money to support yourselves in real life.
Problem with this project is they havent made enough money to be self sufficient yet so they flipped the script too soon. And they also offered things too close or in some peoples minds better to new comers that the elitist 'founders' thought they would have exclusive access to.
If we live long enough we will look back on all these things and laugh at them and hopefully point to them as examples of how NOT to support a project. Or even how to get one financed.
CiG still has enough plausible deniability and enough white knights floating around to protect it but eventually theyre going to have to release some of the things they have shown people over the past 4 years. CoE isnt close to that yet but if (when) CiG fails to deliver their window of opportunity will be shut. Unless of course people are gullible (which they are) to think these guys are different....
Please don't put CIG on a pedestal. They did not create this model or create the precedent for what you're seeing here. There has been upselling in crowdfunded games since the beginning, including upselling to higher packages at reduced rates. Honestly, if CoE is able to follow the same timeline as CIG with SC, based on the scope of CoE, I think backers should consider themselves lucky.
As far as CoE goes, I think it's admirable that some people have enough confidence in the process to invest so heavily into something that is very high risk in a cross-section of the crowdfunding industry that's viewed as high risk as it is. I think that developers should ensure that early backers are well serviced and if someone wants to switch packages because they feel one is better than the other, then let them. At this point we're really talking about bits flying around the Internet, right? If the backlash is large enough then make the packages equivalent to each other.
That's a bit too much like 'pay no attention to the man behind the curtain' for my taste. CIG may not have created the model, but they certainly pioneered it. They have a GWR after all, and as @killion81will tell you, size matters.
It's not untoward to think of CIG as an example of crowdfunding. In fact, expecting it not to be used as an example seems downright sinister.
Oh, I'm not claiming that CIG won't have an impact on crowdfunding should it fail. I'm not even claiming that they haven't brought this to the forefront. What I am saying is that this has gone on from as far back as I can remember with crowdfunding (selling add-ons via backroom style tactics). It's been popularized through SC only because of its infamy and media coverage. Make no mistake, though, anyone who has ever backed a crowdfunding project has been sent an email at some point trying to sell them something else or reminding them about all the cool stuff they can add onto their package. If SC had made $6 million it would have passed like a fart in the wind, they would have done an IPO (similar to Frontiers Development), private investors, etc. to secure the remainder of their funding and nobody would have been the wiser. What's news worthy about CIG is only that they did it without the private sector. So the significance of CIG is, actually, two fold, both failure and success have significant ramifications within the industry.
If CIG were to fail I, actually, think the impact could be far-reaching in that here's a project which secured in excess of 100 million dollars, and failed to deliver something. So does that pretty much seal the fate of future MMORPG projects? It very well could. However, I'd suggest that if that was the case, CIG would only be the final nail in the coffin, as there have been enough failed MMO attempts to date already.
If CIG is successful, AND if the game is good, then it shows that crowdfunding can be used for larger, innovative, projects and not just lower-budget projects.
That being said, what I find sinister is people who are acting like there has been no significant progress since the whole doom and gloom started, like SC failing is still a foregone conclusion. I don't mind engaging in debate, but there isn't much point if people are going to be fanatical about it.
Players usually don't like it when their power and privileges in an MMO are "nerfed" after a while.
But when they PAID real money for that power and privilege, then all hell breaks loose...
Real money for privileges.. and yet they insist that this game isn't pay to win.
It would be P2W if you would not ever lose those privileges. But besides losing it other players can't take them from you. It's not the same as buying a boost that will remain on your character no matter what or a piece of equipment that will be yours no matter what.
Sorry but that's really a weak argument. They are buying massive benefits - period.
When you are hard pressed for money you can do some stupid things. They are just trying to get what they need to keep going. If they dont catch the eye of an investor soon, they could be in trouble.
No worries, Jeromy Walsh recently said that they had already been approached by several prospective investors and publishers. Money is no object now.
Presumably they are just evaluating the offers to see which one is prepared to give them the best deal.
Well anyway I was smart enough to invest almost 1k in real money to CIG and have gotten a FPS game, what more could you ask for ? Oh that's right I invested in 2 space ships which have yet to be made. Going on 4yrs now. I did ask in the 10 for the chairman if the Roberts had any Swiss bank accounts, still waiting for a response.
Whyyyyyy!!!???
(I mean that in a nice way, I just seriously cannot understand why people are spending so much money on things like this when there are so many great games out there that are fully functional/released.)
SIGH, I fell for the Hype.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
Regardless of the CiG comparisons they are directly to blame for this as they set the precedent, and until they outright fail it will give people the license to promise the world (in Roberts case the universe) and deliver little or nothing. Then even if you make more money than you need, find ways to make even more money to support yourselves in real life.
Problem with this project is they havent made enough money to be self sufficient yet so they flipped the script too soon. And they also offered things too close or in some peoples minds better to new comers that the elitist 'founders' thought they would have exclusive access to.
If we live long enough we will look back on all these things and laugh at them and hopefully point to them as examples of how NOT to support a project. Or even how to get one financed.
CiG still has enough plausible deniability and enough white knights floating around to protect it but eventually theyre going to have to release some of the things they have shown people over the past 4 years. CoE isnt close to that yet but if (when) CiG fails to deliver their window of opportunity will be shut. Unless of course people are gullible (which they are) to think these guys are different....
Please don't put CIG on a pedestal. They did not create this model or create the precedent for what you're seeing here. There has been upselling in crowdfunded games since the beginning, including upselling to higher packages at reduced rates. Honestly, if CoE is able to follow the same timeline as CIG with SC, based on the scope of CoE, I think backers should consider themselves lucky.
As far as CoE goes, I think it's admirable that some people have enough confidence in the process to invest so heavily into something that is very high risk in a cross-section of the crowdfunding industry that's viewed as high risk as it is. I think that developers should ensure that early backers are well serviced and if someone wants to switch packages because they feel one is better than the other, then let them. At this point we're really talking about bits flying around the Internet, right? If the backlash is large enough then make the packages equivalent to each other.
That's a bit too much like 'pay no attention to the man behind the curtain' for my taste. CIG may not have created the model, but they certainly pioneered it. They have a GWR after all, and as @killion81will tell you, size matters.
It's not untoward to think of CIG as an example of crowdfunding. In fact, expecting it not to be used as an example seems downright sinister.
Oh, I'm not claiming that CIG won't have an impact on crowdfunding should it fail. I'm not even claiming that they haven't brought this to the forefront. What I am saying is that this has gone on from as far back as I can remember with crowdfunding (selling add-ons via backroom style tactics). It's been popularized through SC only because of its infamy and media coverage. Make no mistake, though, anyone who has ever backed a crowdfunding project has been sent an email at some point trying to sell them something else or reminding them about all the cool stuff they can add onto their package. If SC had made $6 million it would have passed like a fart in the wind, they would have done an IPO (similar to Frontiers Development), private investors, etc. to secure the remainder of their funding and nobody would have been the wiser. What's news worthy about CIG is only that they did it without the private sector. So the significance of CIG is, actually, two fold, both failure and success have significant ramifications within the industry.
If CIG were to fail I, actually, think the impact could be far-reaching in that here's a project which secured in excess of 100 million dollars, and failed to deliver something. So does that pretty much seal the fate of future MMORPG projects? It very well could. However, I'd suggest that if that was the case, CIG would only be the final nail in the coffin, as there have been enough failed MMO attempts to date already.
If CIG is successful, AND if the game is good, then it shows that crowdfunding can be used for larger, innovative, projects and not just lower-budget projects.
That being said, what I find sinister is people who are acting like there has been no significant progress since the whole doom and gloom started, like SC failing is still a foregone conclusion. I don't mind engaging in debate, but there isn't much point if people are going to be fanatical about it.
"If CIG were to fail [...] does that pretty much seal the fate of future MMORPG projects? It very well could."
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
No it just means there wont be anymore of these dreamer nonsense starts ups, at least not ones that go into it with little or nothing but their hands out.
The claim to this one was the unsubstantiated selling point the guy had put 500K or whatever of his own money into it. Well 500K even if it is true is not much. But it was SOMETHING and something the guys dreaming of a game like this could hang their hats on.
But that still isnt close to enough. These places shouldnt start begging for money until they have some sort of working model. ARK is the prefect example. But even ARK shows the pitfalls, They have had mod makers and other people help them develop their game for almost a year now, they have sold thousands of copies, yet they still have major fundamental problems with the game, they had to settle a lawsuit, and they released an expansion to a game thats still (according to them) in Alpha. So even putting them up as an example is sort of dubious. But it also shows that no matter how 'easy' you have it or 'successful' your project may appear greed or mismanagement or the need for more money always comes in. Even if you stole the original idea, half the art and artists, and have let cellar developers make half your game for you.
In the end the bill of good these wannabe 'visionaries' have tried to sell for years was a load. There is a reason why money people handle money and the 'evil' corporation did what they did to make sure games got RELEASED.
But right now these guys have created their own little cottage industry, with zero regulations and zero consequences. SO like I said when this all first started, its great work if you can get it.
"If CIG were to fail [...] does that pretty much seal the fate of future MMORPG projects? It very well could."
Sorry, I'm in a weird mood today.
I was talking specifically about crowdfunded MMORPGs, but I suppose that it could ding the industry as a whole, too, for AAA titles. However, with Nexen (?) debuting like 30 titles in development, I think the industry is probably going to survive it, lol.
"If CIG were to fail [...] does that pretty much seal the fate of future MMORPG projects? It very well could."
Sorry, I'm in a weird mood today.
I was talking specifically about crowdfunded MMORPGs, but I suppose that it could ding the industry as a whole, too, for AAA titles. However, with Nexen (?) debuting like 30 titles in development, I think the industry is probably going to survive it, lol.
Crowdfunding is largely irrelevant to the future of the MMORPG industry !
*gasp*
The future of the MMORPG industry is in China and South Korea, where crowdfunding is unknown. There are dozens of huge game development companies in those countries producing more MMO's in one year than the western devs produced in the entire history of MMO's...
Who are these people paying $1000 or more for a game years from release (if it is even released!)? I feel like I am from a different planet or something when I read about this stuff.
All I can conclude from things like this, some people have a far more casual relationship with their money than I do. You aren't from a different planet, @YashaX, you just have more appreciation for your own money.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
"If CIG were to fail [...] does that pretty much seal the fate of future MMORPG projects? It very well could."
Sorry, I'm in a weird mood today.
I was talking specifically about crowdfunded MMORPGs, but I suppose that it could ding the industry as a whole, too, for AAA titles. However, with Nexen (?) debuting like 30 titles in development, I think the industry is probably going to survive it, lol.
Crowdfunding is largely irrelevant to the future of the MMORPG industry !
*gasp*
The future of the MMORPG industry is in China and South Korea, where crowdfunding is unknown. There are dozens of huge game development companies in those countries producing more MMO's in one year than the western devs produced in the entire history of MMO's...
I didn't know whether to Awesome or Agree this, but I wanted to do both. Honestly, I'm not sure why these Korean companies even try to enter the North American market. Especially when they're making 10 times the revenues in the Asia-Pacific market, lol. They must think that we're all over here just waiting for the next great game to throw our thousands of spare dollars at. In reality, we're really just waiting for the next game we can bitch and complain about.
That's all these types of morons want, when they pay their money they want to feel like they're elites and everyone else is a pleb.
If you've ever seen a devolving conversation about P2W on these forums or in-game general chat there's the person who goes on about how if it wasn't for them nobody would be playing the game.
Can games just be games again man? You pay a box fee and or a sub and what you see if what you get? Sheesh.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Regardless of the CiG comparisons they are directly to blame for this as they set the precedent, and until they outright fail it will give people the license to promise the world (in Roberts case the universe) and deliver little or nothing. Then even if you make more money than you need, find ways to make even more money to support yourselves in real life.
Problem with this project is they havent made enough money to be self sufficient yet so they flipped the script too soon. And they also offered things too close or in some peoples minds better to new comers that the elitist 'founders' thought they would have exclusive access to.
If we live long enough we will look back on all these things and laugh at them and hopefully point to them as examples of how NOT to support a project. Or even how to get one financed.
CiG still has enough plausible deniability and enough white knights floating around to protect it but eventually theyre going to have to release some of the things they have shown people over the past 4 years. CoE isnt close to that yet but if (when) CiG fails to deliver their window of opportunity will be shut. Unless of course people are gullible (which they are) to think these guys are different....
Please don't put CIG on a pedestal. They did not create this model or create the precedent for what you're seeing here. There has been upselling in crowdfunded games since the beginning, including upselling to higher packages at reduced rates. Honestly, if CoE is able to follow the same timeline as CIG with SC, based on the scope of CoE, I think backers should consider themselves lucky.
As far as CoE goes, I think it's admirable that some people have enough confidence in the process to invest so heavily into something that is very high risk in a cross-section of the crowdfunding industry that's viewed as high risk as it is. I think that developers should ensure that early backers are well serviced and if someone wants to switch packages because they feel one is better than the other, then let them. At this point we're really talking about bits flying around the Internet, right? If the backlash is large enough then make the packages equivalent to each other.
Maybe but they took it to a whole other level. And I dont remember a lot of these 6 figure individual levels before CiG came along. Basically because none of these guys pretending to make a video game had the balls to ask for that much.
L.Ron Hubbard was (in)famous for saying
“You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.”
I think they might have to rethink that one and change it to "You dont get rich starting a religion, you get rich writing a kickstarter campaign to a science fiction video game and turn THAT into a religion"
Sorry, I missed this, and totally wouldn't have wanted to, since it's too juicy. I think that you're reaching a bit, and by a bit I mean a ridiculous amount, like to the fanatical level. You might think about changing it to "You dont get rich starting a religion, you get rich writing a kickstarter campaign to a science fiction video game, make people hate you for being really good at marketing, make people hate you SO much that they can't avoid dragging your name into any subject even slightly related to you, and have THEM create a religion solely dedicated to hating on you" There!! Corrected for truth.
What's funny is that CIG doesn't have to do squat now, it's a machine of it's own making. If you hadn't noticed, what you did was convert this CoE thread into a SC thread and managed to do so without getting it locked or anything else of the sort. Also, it should be noted that there was zero Erillion intervention required to stoke the fire.
As far as people "pretending to make a video game" goes, there are, literally, hundreds of games released on Steam at this point, with over 3/4 of all games Kickstarted to date released to some degree. So if you want sound less fanatical on this subject, you might enlighten yourself on the subject and make fewer grand sweeping statements that can be easily dismissed as trolling. If you'd like to be taken seriously, I'd welcome your intelligent response......but I won't hold my breath for it.
After seeing what Star Citizen has done with 100M+ and what 4 years of dev time, COE doesn't stand a chance in hell. Heck even Shroud of the Avatar had like 6 years and 10M.
I would be surprised if they even launched the MUD and that would take a C++ programmer and 3 months.
I have no idea how someone could look at the feature list, money raised, and time table and think this will happen.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
If they ever had actual regulations on these things it would end them all real quick. If CiG were forced to open their books and show where every penny has gone it would be awesome. As it would stop all this stupid shit then and there. Assuming of course they made regulations that said X amount of 'raised' money had to go to you know actually making the game. And not some proof of concept tech demo which is all CoE is and was. And well beyond some barely better than proof of concept tech demo that SC currently is.
Its probably too late to do anything to stop CiG, other than maybe getting them for tax fraud (which has brought down bigger crooks than Chris Roberts to be sure) but it could go along way in protecting people (an ultimately the whole industry) from this crap.
As for some of the other comments. Asian game will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever to infinity work in the western world. Theyre way too monetized and even when they claim they arent they are an abortion of epic proportions just look at Archeage and Black Desert the only two that have really gotten a foothold of any kind here.
But its even too late for that since the approach has already leaked into what few MMOs are still in existence in the west. Basically every MMO now has some sort of cash shop. Even the ones that claim to be buy to play and sub based.
But its really why the whole genre is dead. Too over saturated too much 'seen it before' attitude, too much time to make and by the time they release someone is showcasing something new and different with better graphics and more promises. Its a never ending cycle. Its also why most (all) studios arent bothering with them anymore and the ones they have now theyre just throwing out anything and everything they can think of to maximize the money they make, which hasnt yet made any of them improve. Except for maybe ESO. But what did they do once they thought they had bought the good will of their players...they introduced predatory loot boxes with total RNG. And packaged it with a nice little casino dealer animation.
When you are hard pressed for money you can do some stupid things. They are just trying to get what they need to keep going. If they dont catch the eye of an investor soon, they could be in trouble.
No worries, Jeromy Walsh recently said that they had already been approached by several prospective investors and publishers. Money is no object now.
Presumably they are just evaluating the offers to see which one is prepared to give them the best deal.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well anyway I was smart enough to invest almost 1k in real money to CIG and have gotten a FPS game, what more could you ask for ? Oh that's right I invested in 2 space ships which have yet to be made. Going on 4yrs now. I did ask in the 10 for the chairman if the Roberts had any Swiss bank accounts, still waiting for a response.
Whyyyyyy!!!???
(I mean that in a nice way, I just seriously cannot understand why people are spending so much money on things like this when there are so many great games out there that are fully functional/released.)
SIGH, I fell for the Hype.
You know its because you hate EVE/CCP so much you'll pay almost anything to support a space game that will destroy it/ them
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If they ever had actual regulations on these things it would end them all real quick. If CiG were forced to open their books and show where every penny has gone it would be awesome. As it would stop all this stupid shit then and there. Assuming of course they made regulations that said X amount of 'raised' money had to go to you know actually making the game. And not some proof of concept tech demo which is all CoE is and was. And well beyond some barely better than proof of concept tech demo that SC currently is.
Its probably too late to do anything to stop CiG, other than maybe getting them for tax fraud (which has brought down bigger crooks than Chris Roberts to be sure) but it could go along way in protecting people (an ultimately the whole industry) from this crap.
As for some of the other comments. Asian game will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever to infinity work in the western world. Theyre way too monetized and even when they claim they arent they are an abortion of epic proportions just look at Archeage and Black Desert the only two that have really gotten a foothold of any kind here.
But its even too late for that since the approach has already leaked into what few MMOs are still in existence in the west. Basically every MMO now has some sort of cash shop. Even the ones that claim to be buy to play and sub based.
But its really why the whole genre is dead. Too over saturated too much 'seen it before' attitude, too much time to make and by the time they release someone is showcasing something new and different with better graphics and more promises. Its a never ending cycle. Its also why most (all) studios arent bothering with them anymore and the ones they have now theyre just throwing out anything and everything they can think of to maximize the money they make, which hasnt yet made any of them improve. Except for maybe ESO. But what did they do once they thought they had bought the good will of their players...they introduced predatory loot boxes with total RNG. And packaged it with a nice little casino dealer animation.
I'd have to disagree with you on opening their books. We've already witnessed first-hand that people seem to be unwilling to accept realities, such as the fact they have been employing 300 people for a number of years now, or the cost of doing business associated with those staff levels. Instead, we would rather resort to wild and outlandish conspiracy theories because for whatever reason these "make sense". We should probably also disregard the fact that CIG is slowly, but surely, knocking out modules which they laid out in their initial project plan. I believe that all that remains at this point, at a modular level, is SQ42. Everything else is live on their alpha servers. So all that's left is glue (something that binds these modules together) and polish which, compared to the rest of the project, is relatively trivial. We should, also, disregard that they've produced some of the prettiest in-engine footage of any game in recent memory (saving some of the horrible animations). I'm not saying that the project will inevitably ship as described, but to believe that the continual progress is anything but the sign of a game being shipped, at some point, at some level of completion, is just hilarious. Effectively they're at a part now where it's a matter of mashing the naughty bits together. All the really hard work is done.
As far as the industry in North America goes, I tend to agree that traditional MMORPGs don't work here. However, there are MMO experiences like Destiny, The Division, ESO, which seem to do quite well. Also, there is a markert for the traditional, it's just smaller. Wildstar is a great example. People see it making $4 million annually and call it dead, but it's making double what CoH was when NC Soft pulled the plug. Actually, CoH NEVER earned more than Wildstar did in a single quarter, EVER! Despite having a cult following, the game was, effectively, dead on arrival. Yet, CoH lived on for nearly a decade. So there is a market for these types of games in North America, but I don't think there is a market for a traditional MMORPG in North America BY a North American developer (due to costs).
Well anyway I was smart enough to invest almost 1k in real money to CIG and have gotten a FPS game, what more could you ask for ? Oh that's right I invested in 2 space ships which have yet to be made. Going on 4yrs now. I did ask in the 10 for the chairman if the Roberts had any Swiss bank accounts, still waiting for a response.
Whyyyyyy!!!???
(I mean that in a nice way, I just seriously cannot understand why people are spending so much money on things like this when there are so many great games out there that are fully functional/released.)
SIGH, I fell for the Hype.
You know its because you hate EVE/CCP so much you'll pay almost anything to support a space game that will destroy it/ them
Nope! Different market! EVE is designed for gamers with lives. It's made so you can start something mundane and just walk away for 48 hours :awesome:
Comments
Presumably they are just evaluating the offers to see which one is prepared to give them the best deal.
Oh, I'm not claiming that CIG won't have an impact on crowdfunding should it fail. I'm not even claiming that they haven't brought this to the forefront. What I am saying is that this has gone on from as far back as I can remember with crowdfunding (selling add-ons via backroom style tactics). It's been popularized through SC only because of its infamy and media coverage. Make no mistake, though, anyone who has ever backed a crowdfunding project has been sent an email at some point trying to sell them something else or reminding them about all the cool stuff they can add onto their package. If SC had made $6 million it would have passed like a fart in the wind, they would have done an IPO (similar to Frontiers Development), private investors, etc. to secure the remainder of their funding and nobody would have been the wiser. What's news worthy about CIG is only that they did it without the private sector. So the significance of CIG is, actually, two fold, both failure and success have significant ramifications within the industry.
If CIG were to fail I, actually, think the impact could be far-reaching in that here's a project which secured in excess of 100 million dollars, and failed to deliver something. So does that pretty much seal the fate of future MMORPG projects? It very well could. However, I'd suggest that if that was the case, CIG would only be the final nail in the coffin, as there have been enough failed MMO attempts to date already.
If CIG is successful, AND if the game is good, then it shows that crowdfunding can be used for larger, innovative, projects and not just lower-budget projects.
That being said, what I find sinister is people who are acting like there has been no significant progress since the whole doom and gloom started, like SC failing is still a foregone conclusion. I don't mind engaging in debate, but there isn't much point if people are going to be fanatical about it.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
They are buying massive benefits - period.
SIGH, I fell for the Hype.
MAGA
Sorry, I'm in a weird mood today.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
The claim to this one was the unsubstantiated selling point the guy had put 500K or whatever of his own money into it. Well 500K even if it is true is not much. But it was SOMETHING and something the guys dreaming of a game like this could hang their hats on.
But that still isnt close to enough. These places shouldnt start begging for money until they have some sort of working model. ARK is the prefect example. But even ARK shows the pitfalls, They have had mod makers and other people help them develop their game for almost a year now, they have sold thousands of copies, yet they still have major fundamental problems with the game, they had to settle a lawsuit, and they released an expansion to a game thats still (according to them) in Alpha. So even putting them up as an example is sort of dubious. But it also shows that no matter how 'easy' you have it or 'successful' your project may appear greed or mismanagement or the need for more money always comes in. Even if you stole the original idea, half the art and artists, and have let cellar developers make half your game for you.
In the end the bill of good these wannabe 'visionaries' have tried to sell for years was a load. There is a reason why money people handle money and the 'evil' corporation did what they did to make sure games got RELEASED.
But right now these guys have created their own little cottage industry, with zero regulations and zero consequences. SO like I said when this all first started, its great work if you can get it.
I was talking specifically about crowdfunded MMORPGs, but I suppose that it could ding the industry as a whole, too, for AAA titles. However, with Nexen (?) debuting like 30 titles in development, I think the industry is probably going to survive it, lol.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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*gasp*
The future of the MMORPG industry is in China and South Korea, where crowdfunding is unknown. There are dozens of huge game development companies in those countries producing more MMO's in one year than the western devs produced in the entire history of MMO's...
I don't know, if I, literally, had a list of 10 million things, this might actually be on it :awesome:
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I didn't know whether to Awesome or Agree this, but I wanted to do both. Honestly, I'm not sure why these Korean companies even try to enter the North American market. Especially when they're making 10 times the revenues in the Asia-Pacific market, lol. They must think that we're all over here just waiting for the next great game to throw our thousands of spare dollars at. In reality, we're really just waiting for the next game we can bitch and complain about.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
If you've ever seen a devolving conversation about P2W on these forums or in-game general chat there's the person who goes on about how if it wasn't for them nobody would be playing the game.
Can games just be games again man? You pay a box fee and or a sub and what you see if what you get? Sheesh.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sorry, I missed this, and totally wouldn't have wanted to, since it's too juicy. I think that you're reaching a bit, and by a bit I mean a ridiculous amount, like to the fanatical level. You might think about changing it to "You dont get rich starting a religion, you get rich writing a kickstarter campaign to a science fiction video game, make people hate you for being really good at marketing, make people hate you SO much that they can't avoid dragging your name into any subject even slightly related to you, and have THEM create a religion solely dedicated to hating on you" There!! Corrected for truth.
What's funny is that CIG doesn't have to do squat now, it's a machine of it's own making. If you hadn't noticed, what you did was convert this CoE thread into a SC thread and managed to do so without getting it locked or anything else of the sort. Also, it should be noted that there was zero Erillion intervention required to stoke the fire.
As far as people "pretending to make a video game" goes, there are, literally, hundreds of games released on Steam at this point, with over 3/4 of all games Kickstarted to date released to some degree. So if you want sound less fanatical on this subject, you might enlighten yourself on the subject and make fewer grand sweeping statements that can be easily dismissed as trolling. If you'd like to be taken seriously, I'd welcome your intelligent response......but I won't hold my breath for it.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I would be surprised if they even launched the MUD and that would take a C++ programmer and 3 months.
I have no idea how someone could look at the feature list, money raised, and time table and think this will happen.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Its probably too late to do anything to stop CiG, other than maybe getting them for tax fraud (which has brought down bigger crooks than Chris Roberts to be sure) but it could go along way in protecting people (an ultimately the whole industry) from this crap.
As for some of the other comments. Asian game will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever to infinity work in the western world. Theyre way too monetized and even when they claim they arent they are an abortion of epic proportions just look at Archeage and Black Desert the only two that have really gotten a foothold of any kind here.
But its even too late for that since the approach has already leaked into what few MMOs are still in existence in the west. Basically every MMO now has some sort of cash shop. Even the ones that claim to be buy to play and sub based.
But its really why the whole genre is dead. Too over saturated too much 'seen it before' attitude, too much time to make and by the time they release someone is showcasing something new and different with better graphics and more promises. Its a never ending cycle. Its also why most (all) studios arent bothering with them anymore and the ones they have now theyre just throwing out anything and everything they can think of to maximize the money they make, which hasnt yet made any of them improve. Except for maybe ESO. But what did they do once they thought they had bought the good will of their players...they introduced predatory loot boxes with total RNG. And packaged it with a nice little casino dealer animation.
Great attempt at sarcasm if not.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'd have to disagree with you on opening their books. We've already witnessed first-hand that people seem to be unwilling to accept realities, such as the fact they have been employing 300 people for a number of years now, or the cost of doing business associated with those staff levels. Instead, we would rather resort to wild and outlandish conspiracy theories because for whatever reason these "make sense". We should probably also disregard the fact that CIG is slowly, but surely, knocking out modules which they laid out in their initial project plan. I believe that all that remains at this point, at a modular level, is SQ42. Everything else is live on their alpha servers. So all that's left is glue (something that binds these modules together) and polish which, compared to the rest of the project, is relatively trivial. We should, also, disregard that they've produced some of the prettiest in-engine footage of any game in recent memory (saving some of the horrible animations). I'm not saying that the project will inevitably ship as described, but to believe that the continual progress is anything but the sign of a game being shipped, at some point, at some level of completion, is just hilarious. Effectively they're at a part now where it's a matter of mashing the naughty bits together. All the really hard work is done.
As far as the industry in North America goes, I tend to agree that traditional MMORPGs don't work here. However, there are MMO experiences like Destiny, The Division, ESO, which seem to do quite well. Also, there is a markert for the traditional, it's just smaller. Wildstar is a great example. People see it making $4 million annually and call it dead, but it's making double what CoH was when NC Soft pulled the plug. Actually, CoH NEVER earned more than Wildstar did in a single quarter, EVER! Despite having a cult following, the game was, effectively, dead on arrival. Yet, CoH lived on for nearly a decade. So there is a market for these types of games in North America, but I don't think there is a market for a traditional MMORPG in North America BY a North American developer (due to costs).
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Nope! Different market! EVE is designed for gamers with lives. It's made so you can start something mundane and just walk away for 48 hours :awesome:
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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