Doesn't BDO basically have no player-to-player trading?
No trading in BDO killed the game for me/friends and guildmates...Trades should be allowed with guildmates or friends only. What's the point of an MMO if you can't socially trade with at least a friends list? It really was a lameass excuse to remove the trade feature because of gold sellers. There are better ways.
I read somewhere that a dev from world of warcraft was asked what he would change and one of the things he said was player trading. This was based purely on gold sellers and hacked accounts causing blizzard a nightmare to deal with. I am all for player trading but I understand how destructive to a game it can be when exploited.
My primary gamer personality is socializer and my first full blown MMO was Runescape. My original character was very focused on blacksmithing. A difficult skill to raise back in the early days of Runescape. I would go smith entire sets of armor, then go to starter zones in the game and hand out sets of gear to new players. Sometimes I would get conversations going, friend them, and then be their go to guy for advise and information about the game.
I also really loved going to drop parties and other social events with prizes and rewards.
Then Runescape said "We're going to make it so you can only trade items of equivalent value" after the Grand Exchange (Their AH) was released in order to combat gold farmers.
This killed my experience more than any gold farmer ever could. I immediately quit the game and only came back after the decision was eventually reversed. Hearing BDO is now like this is one of the reasons I will never try BDO. And any other game that does this is a game I will never play.
I want the right to help newbs. I want the right to give my friends and fiance gifts. And real money trading is not something that personally ruins a game for me. This is one of those features that is so bad that' its an automatic deal breaker.
You can make a game that in all other aspects is 1000% what Star Citizen promised to be in it's Kickstarter, set in an engaging fantasy universe, with smooth gameplay, awesome combat, and the capability to run on a potato despite stunning visuals. Free to play, no cash shop, a freaking charity in it's monetization model.
Implement this feature and I won't play it. It's really that bad to me.
I don't recall CoH haven't "trading" when it launched - or much in the way of "gear" for that matter. It worked fine. (Can't comment on whether it was added or not.)
I don't recall CoH haven't "trading" when it launched - or much in the way of "gear" for that matter. It worked fine. (Can't comment on whether it was added or not.)
They added drops and an Auction House. Loved how they did the auction house though.
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I personally have no "need" to trade in "mmo" type games - and don't really see the need in "adventure driven" mmos.
Very occasionally I have crafted stuff and sold it cheaply to help newer players gear up when I thought prices were way to high to the detriment of the server population.
Now if the point of the game is trading - different matter. And there are single player trading games I do play. Usually though trading - proper trading - is not an integral part of mmos.
As to what Albion Online seems to want to do - looks like a halfway house that won't work imo. If they want to stop gold farmers scrap trading. People get gear by drops and/or crafting. Won't fix character leveling services but it will fix gold farmers.
I love trading, but I won't mind to play a good MMO without it. As long as it serves a purpose and effectively reduces RMT/Bots. If bots run rampant anyway, then there is ZERO reason to remove it.
I don't mind games with or without trading depending on its design, but I think the major problem with Albion Online is that committing fraud is easy, gold sellers are doing this, and then making sells to people, which means that anyone who trades a Large Amount of currency or items such as wood, stone, iron may get banned if they can't provide proof they didn't purchase the items...
Just like myself trading that large amount of items / currency between Arche Age & Albion = lifetime ban just for getting a large amount of items, even with no Real Money involved which I think is the major issue here.
How to allow people to legally trade, and use an auction house without the risk of getting banned because people choose to do illegal things like fraud and gold sellers play the game and such.
Doesn't BDO basically have no player-to-player trading?
They don't have gear player to player trading.
What they do have is at level 56+ - you can buy cash shop items and GIFT them to other players.
So basically they've setup a system where every player ends up in the cash shop sooner or later.
Yep and that is like that to prevent fraud perhaps an idea that Albion Online should have at a certain level only can you make large amounts of exchanges / trades to prevent gold sellers from using mule accounts and getting banned and not caring?
I swear to god though that if they ever did unban my account which is unlikely I will say "Hi Im Delivery" to everyone I trade with, because obviously that means your selling gold or items to someone by their standard lol?
I am still heavily researching on this site of many people's posts and input on both sides of the argument of if Auction Houses / Grand Exchanges are bad for an MMORPG. People say Auction House cuts down on the chat spam and helps make ease.
Frankly I could care less. The whole economic aspect of MMOs is something I see as a necessary distraction from the core game that I only participate in to gear up, not for its own sake. I'd just as soon get what I need and sell what I don't through NPCs.
I find it funny that some immediately equate it with positive social interactions when there are so many other positive social things you can do in MMOs that don't involve trading that are, IMO, much more central to the core game play.
You want to be nice to someone in a game? Give them some of your time. It's much more valuable than trinkets.
You know, if I give something of value to someone in a game, be it gold, resources or "trinkets" all of those took me "time" to acquire right?
If you mean spending time helping others out, I do that as well, either by playing the support classes others loath, power leveling lowbies, joining in keep takes etc.
I also enjoy selling my stuff on an auction house but not fanatical about trading.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Criminalizing generosity is kind of stupid. In many games I gave things away. It was always nice to give some newbie something special (for them) that wasn't as important for you, and since I was one of the main crafters in most games I have been serious about, I had money to spare, so I did spread it around.
I also did a lot of unfair (to me) trades simply for expediency. The market is 20k on an item but I made 12 of them. Sure, sell them at 7k. It makes people really happy, gets them out of your inventory, and if you want, you make more. Ditto for dropped items. Inventory is a premium. I had games where I had 2 accounts and 75% of the available characters on both accounts were simply mules to hold stuff. I could afford to be generous, and it cleared space.
Well vindictus has an auction house I believe but the game is still filled with Gold Spam to this day no it doesn't prevent spamming the only thing it does is create a new ability for people to launder stolen /fraud currency by a user setting a price for a certain amount and X user buys it for that amount.
But I won't play Vindictus because of Nexon, and because of spammers.
No trading would put a damp on crafting and eliminates a lot of the non-combat roles completely. I like more roles in MMOs, not less than what we have already.
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No trading would put a damp on crafting and eliminates a lot of the non-combat roles completely. I like more roles in MMOs, not less than what we have already.
Well I loved Albion as it was besides the game-play which they made suck, at least before I found out they banned users just for trading across games, or for non real money, if you check their own forums they only inform players purchasing currency will get you banned...
But unless a player reads the entire section 10 of their EULA they ban users for just trading too much with nothing in return and I think that is a bit absurd given I have never ever been banned from a Sand-Box game for trading a large amount of stuff before, even in Dark Fall when I would give stacks of 30k Wood to people and stuff.
Yes but how do you avoid being banned in Albion Online when they already banned me for receiving too many resources / currency, and don't review counter evidence + say I purchased gold illegally which makes no sense...
Do you think they should re-word the agreement to make it more understandable to everyone?
The acquisition of Virtual Property against consideration in any form other than Virtual Property of the Game is expressly prohibited. If the User trades or exchanges Virtual Property in a large-scale without a comparable value obtained within the Game, then it is assumed that the User violates this rule. The User is entitled to provide counter-evidence/
How can a player freely trade in the fear of getting banned?
For example a friend at school decides to quit the game and give items away to another friend or even currency why should a player get banned because they get assumed they purchased currency illegally?
RPG MO, a very small and somewhat P2W MMO did this, and between 2007 and 2011 Runescape did basically this by introducing a person to person daily trade imbalance cap.
In both cases, it resulted in a hollow experience more suited for single-player games.
Want to give your partner an extra potion before the boss you're camping respawns? Too bad.
Want to give your IRL friend who just started the game some noob gear? Too bad.
Want to try splitting the loot from a group PvP kill? Too bad.
IMO, the ideal trading system is pre-2007 Runescape, when all trading was online, person to person and without any default guide prices. You actually had people trading all across the map (not confined to just a few, or even one location(s)), but still a central trade hub that naturally grew and expanded with the number of people trading, you had actual opportunity costs where someone who forgot a rope on a quest could make the bank of the lucky noob who happened to have a rope on him, and most of all you had connections forming between miners and smithers, cooks and adventurers, fletchers and archers, etc.
No trading sucks. Playing BDO, while I enjoyed the game, I really hated no player trading. Player trading has been an important part of MMO's since the beginning of MMORPG's. The price to pay for reduced gold sellers is not worth it in my opinion. You end up having way too many restrictions, from not able to help your friends/guildies, to having server locked market prices. Plus the game becomes very expensive to play.
They say it's to eliminate gold sellers, but people forget the biggest gold sellers are PA & Kakao, who are let loose under this system. It's why we end up with $25-$35 character-bound outfits, character-bound inventory expansion, $15 Value Packs which are pretty much must-have now, minimum of 4 pet purchases ($36) required to have a chance at one T3 pet, $22 horse-bound gear, I could go on and on. I mention character-bound because most MMO's have account-bound storage expansion and outfits.
Game started by not allowing you to sell cash shop items ingame for money, which was great. But of course that changed, you can now list cash shop items on the marketplace. So PA/Kakao simply eliminated 3rd party competition so they can control the gold selling market too. All the restrictions ingame plus expensive cash shop items and expensive Kakao cash just to reduce 3rd party gold sellers? Not worth it.
Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW
Personally, I'd prefer it to be only player based trading. Maybe add NPC shops for basic items and vendor trash, but I'd rather have SWG style player markets and have relatively few things that you can actually acquire from the NPC/in-game market.
This would mean nothing could be bound to a character and everything needs to be tradeable.
If games want to eliminate gold sellers, all they have to do is get rid of the Pay to Win aspects of their games and charge a small monthly sub - $5 - $10 would suffice, to keep everyone who wants to be there, there and weed out the free-to-play gold sellers.
I really do think the whole downfall of player-to-player trading is a result of the Pay-To-Win mentality of publishers/developers. I'd much rather pay that monthly subscription for a quality game, run by dedicated developers, that can weed out the spammers by default, than run through the gold spamming or money-grubbing greed-fest publishers turn their games into lately.
Trading is not about the Economy, it's about the Social aspect of the game.
You trade to your friends, your guild mates and to make friends. So it is not about making money, but it is actually about giving stuff for free to help people out. Some game don't need Trade as they are more Solo friendly than others, but most MMOs need a Trade System.
Trading is not about the Economy, it's about the Social aspect of the game.
You trade to your friends, your guild mates and to make friends. So it is not about making money, but it is actually about giving stuff for free to help people out. Some game don't need Trade as they are more Solo friendly than others, but most MMOs need a Trade System.
I wouldn't say trading isn't about economy but social aspects. I'd say it's about both aspects. However economic based trades generally involve the exchange of goods and services of roughly equivalent value. Social trading is very one sided quite often.
So what this kind of mechanic destroys is social trading and the service market. They simple can't survive in a system such as what Runescape did where trades were not allowed to be one sided.
If a player that obtained their items in a legit way, and is exceptionally good at the economic game has to now look over their shoulder as to not get banned - something is wrong with the game.
Comments
No trading in BDO killed the game for me/friends and guildmates...Trades should be allowed with guildmates or friends only. What's the point of an MMO if you can't socially trade with at least a friends list? It really was a lameass excuse to remove the trade feature because of gold sellers. There are better ways.
I also really loved going to drop parties and other social events with prizes and rewards.
Then Runescape said "We're going to make it so you can only trade items of equivalent value" after the Grand Exchange (Their AH) was released in order to combat gold farmers.
This killed my experience more than any gold farmer ever could. I immediately quit the game and only came back after the decision was eventually reversed. Hearing BDO is now like this is one of the reasons I will never try BDO. And any other game that does this is a game I will never play.
I want the right to help newbs. I want the right to give my friends and fiance gifts. And real money trading is not something that personally ruins a game for me. This is one of those features that is so bad that' its an automatic deal breaker.
You can make a game that in all other aspects is 1000% what Star Citizen promised to be in it's Kickstarter, set in an engaging fantasy universe, with smooth gameplay, awesome combat, and the capability to run on a potato despite stunning visuals. Free to play, no cash shop, a freaking charity in it's monetization model.
Implement this feature and I won't play it. It's really that bad to me.
Here is the details on their secret bid system: http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Consignment_House
Also here: https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Auction_House
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Very occasionally I have crafted stuff and sold it cheaply to help newer players gear up when I thought prices were way to high to the detriment of the server population.
Now if the point of the game is trading - different matter. And there are single player trading games I do play. Usually though trading - proper trading - is not an integral part of mmos.
As to what Albion Online seems to want to do - looks like a halfway house that won't work imo. If they want to stop gold farmers scrap trading. People get gear by drops and/or crafting. Won't fix character leveling services but it will fix gold farmers.
Just like myself trading that large amount of items / currency between Arche Age & Albion = lifetime ban just for getting a large amount of items, even with no Real Money involved which I think is the major issue here.
How to allow people to legally trade, and use an auction house without the risk of getting banned because people choose to do illegal things like fraud and gold sellers play the game and such.
I swear to god though that if they ever did unban my account which is unlikely I will say "Hi Im Delivery" to everyone I trade with, because obviously that means your selling gold or items to someone by their standard lol?
If you mean spending time helping others out, I do that as well, either by playing the support classes others loath, power leveling lowbies, joining in keep takes etc.
I also enjoy selling my stuff on an auction house but not fanatical about trading.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
2) They keep the economy under their control, all via the auction house.
I also did a lot of unfair (to me) trades simply for expediency. The market is 20k on an item but I made 12 of them. Sure, sell them at 7k. It makes people really happy, gets them out of your inventory, and if you want, you make more. Ditto for dropped items. Inventory is a premium. I had games where I had 2 accounts and 75% of the available characters on both accounts were simply mules to hold stuff. I could afford to be generous, and it cleared space.
gold farmers can usually be easily ignored or murdered
But I won't play Vindictus because of Nexon, and because of spammers.
But unless a player reads the entire section 10 of their EULA they ban users for just trading too much with nothing in return and I think that is a bit absurd given I have never ever been banned from a Sand-Box game for trading a large amount of stuff before, even in Dark Fall when I would give stacks of 30k Wood to people and stuff.
Do you think they should re-word the agreement to make it more understandable to everyone?
The acquisition of Virtual Property against consideration in any form other than Virtual Property of the Game is expressly prohibited. If the User trades or exchanges Virtual Property in a large-scale without a comparable value obtained within the Game, then it is assumed that the User violates this rule. The User is entitled to provide counter-evidence/
In both cases, it resulted in a hollow experience more suited for single-player games.
Want to give your partner an extra potion before the boss you're camping respawns? Too bad.
Want to give your IRL friend who just started the game some noob gear? Too bad.
Want to try splitting the loot from a group PvP kill? Too bad.
IMO, the ideal trading system is pre-2007 Runescape, when all trading was online, person to person and without any default guide prices. You actually had people trading all across the map (not confined to just a few, or even one location(s)), but still a central trade hub that naturally grew and expanded with the number of people trading, you had actual opportunity costs where someone who forgot a rope on a quest could make the bank of the lucky noob who happened to have a rope on him, and most of all you had connections forming between miners and smithers, cooks and adventurers, fletchers and archers, etc.
They say it's to eliminate gold sellers, but people forget the biggest gold sellers are PA & Kakao, who are let loose under this system. It's why we end up with $25-$35 character-bound outfits, character-bound inventory expansion, $15 Value Packs which are pretty much must-have now, minimum of 4 pet purchases ($36) required to have a chance at one T3 pet, $22 horse-bound gear, I could go on and on. I mention character-bound because most MMO's have account-bound storage expansion and outfits.
Game started by not allowing you to sell cash shop items ingame for money, which was great. But of course that changed, you can now list cash shop items on the marketplace. So PA/Kakao simply eliminated 3rd party competition so they can control the gold selling market too. All the restrictions ingame plus expensive cash shop items and expensive Kakao cash just to reduce 3rd party gold sellers? Not worth it.
Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO
Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW
This would mean nothing could be bound to a character and everything needs to be tradeable.
If games want to eliminate gold sellers, all they have to do is get rid of the Pay to Win aspects of their games and charge a small monthly sub - $5 - $10 would suffice, to keep everyone who wants to be there, there and weed out the free-to-play gold sellers.
I really do think the whole downfall of player-to-player trading is a result of the Pay-To-Win mentality of publishers/developers. I'd much rather pay that monthly subscription for a quality game, run by dedicated developers, that can weed out the spammers by default, than run through the gold spamming or money-grubbing greed-fest publishers turn their games into lately.
You trade to your friends, your guild mates and to make friends.
So it is not about making money, but it is actually about giving stuff for free to help people out.
Some game don't need Trade as they are more Solo friendly than others, but most MMOs need a Trade System.
So what this kind of mechanic destroys is social trading and the service market. They simple can't survive in a system such as what Runescape did where trades were not allowed to be one sided.