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RPG or FPS combat ?
admriker444
Member Posts: 1,526
in Fallen Earth
I guess I just assumed this game was going to be a classic rpg with turn based combat and auto locked target. Then someone posted elsewhere that it would be a FPS.
Personally, FPS doesnt make sense to me. The game was inspired by the Fallout series, a classic RPG.
Thoughts ?
Comments
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Just for clarification, I personally do not believe that combat in Fallen Earth will be limited to first-person perspective. At the moment I think that the game will adopt a twitch, possibly the "mouse to aim and click to fire" mechanism, style that is usually incorporated within FPS games.
In addition, I think that Icarus could be following a number of concepts. I hope they are looking for a unique and innovative system that will maximise the fun factor and player experience. One of the problems with current popular MMORPGs is the lack of engaging and immersive combat systems. Another is the constriction of the sandbox "cycle target and spam" convention.
Edit: Bad Grammar!
bleh I just hate FPS systems. They dont appeal to me at all.
I just tried Face of Mankind, another FPS MMO. The game has 3rd and 1st person views however when entering combat mode you MUST switch to a 1st person view.
I much rather have a system of auto locking with special attacks. Whats so great about pointing and clicking honestly ? I see no strategy involved in that or no thought process. I want to out-think my opponent with the right combo of specials to defeat him. Being able to hold my mouse cursor a little better than the other guy or a better internet connection hardly qualifies as exciting to me
Also, FPS systems really make gear pointless. What does it matter if I have 60% armor resists and a rifle that does 800-950 damage if I can't point and hit my target ? The enemy could have totally crummy newb gear and still beat me if he can aim better than me. The whole point of a MMO is to improve my avatar via levels, skills, weapons, armor, etc but all that is moot in a FPS system. In the end, it comes down to a physical skill (my right hand)
I'll still give FE a shot because I like their devs and the setting of the game but honestly I probably wont last long in it. I also liked the concepts in Auto Assault and Face of Mankind but I just cant get past that mindless FPS stuff
I don't know if you've tried Neocron, but it incorporated a pretty good FPS system. There wasn't true bullet physics... but you did have to train your gun on a target to hit them. I personally think this added more fun to the gameplay and immersion, without being overly difficult.
FPS, round based, whatever... I really don't care, as long as it is new and unique.
http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information
Thats one of the parts of this game that are going to make it rawk. The fact that you have some really cool gun and mega ultra super armor shouldn't be all that matters. What should matter is do you know how to use it correctly and can ;you identify your apponents weekness by the gear he is wearing and weapons he uses. Agreed twitch could be hard on those with slow interent but its not 100% possitive that all gameplay will be like that. Besides twitch combat has hella more strategy involved when it comes to fire and maneuver and flanking your enemy. People don't just stand infront of each other and rummage through their backpack looking for health potion while multitasking a firefight.
FE REPRESENT
Lead with your face and role with the punches.
Thats one of the parts of this game that are going to make it rawk. The fact that you have some really cool gun and mega ultra super armor shouldn't be all that matters. What should matter is do you know how to use it correctly and can ;you identify your apponents weekness by the gear he is wearing and weapons he uses. Agreed twitch could be hard on those with slow interent but its not 100% possitive that all gameplay will be like that. Besides twitch combat has hella more strategy involved when it comes to fire and maneuver and flanking your enemy. People don't just stand infront of each other and rummage through their backpack looking for health potion while multitasking a firefight.
FE REPRESENT
i disagree. Gear should be all important like it currently is in a MMORPG...emphasis on RPG. These hybrid MMOFPS just dont work.
Why even bother with levels or gear if in the end it comes down to who has better hand/eye coordination ? If people really want instant gratification like that there are plenty of XBOX360 titles out there with online play.
http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information
Thats the kinda stuff Im talking about. Im not necesarily promoting an all out shooter style for combat but shooter with an emphasis on skills such as gun control/ how much you shake and move, skills on accuracy how well you can actually shoot, reload time. Things of that nature.Not just twitch but like synoth said. Hybrid
Lead with your face and role with the punches.
You make my brain hurt. The gear of insane amounts of power will still be there, it being FPS-based just means that instead of clicking on your opponent and waiting for the end of the fight (WoW, Everquest, etc) you actually have to dodge around and keep your crosshair focused on your opponent who is doing the same.
If you're a newbie with the starting pistol, all the aim in the world isn't going to do you a bit of good against an endgame character in a full protective suit of body armor. Although you would be able to live longer if you were somehow better at dodging than he was at aiming.
All it does is add more to the depth of combat. Gear still plays a gigantic role.
Edit: sorry about the bolding, it won't let me change it.
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Exactly...with something like the Deus Ex system newbie chars would have poor aim even with excellent guns, but you still could use a full-blown ballistics simulation to determine what happens with the bullet once it is launched.
That system would allow the finer points of FPS combat to play a role in the game, which would certainly be a good thing to me. Don't underestimate the amount of tactics that goes into being good as a team at games like Counterstrike. And even for a solo player, things like choosing good positions and utilizing the terrain makes for more than a pure twitch contest.
Which is important to me, because I find games that ONLY rewards you for patient grinding not very appealing. There has to be at least some playerskill involved, and if Icarus Studios can manage something like a 50/50 balance between playerskill and char attributes, I would be quite happy with that.
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Paragraph much?
can anyone give me the short version? or short short version...
http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information
Lead with your face and role with the punches.
If someone surprises you out in the wastelands, even with your super-precious BFG, you're going to have to find out who is shooting at you, where from, and how much time you have to retaliate or die.
Good times for all!
Nothing wrong with FPS. If you don't like it, you don't like. Gear will play a big factor in who wins a fight but it won't be solely based on that. Which is good as fresh players can now participate in big events and not have to worry about having to be a HIGH level.
On a personal note, I don't know how people could prefer that. I for one don't think its cool to have to wait 6 months with constant level grinding before Im a high enough level to be able to even start to enjoy the game.
It's not really about hand eye coordination with FPS's, I believe there's alot of tactics involved as well as I can guarantee you a group of players with the best of everything no matter how good equipment and hand eye coordination can still get wasted by another group that works together with bad equipment.
Thats what I like, gives everyone a chance to have fun. In the end, Im sure Icaurs will surprise both sides of the tracks.
I'm not the best fps player out there and I don't have the best twitch reflexes but i do well in the fps games because I try to use strategy. I set myself up to fight in situations that give me an advantage.
Also, I do like that it seems that the devs of FE are going to make it where they heaviest of heavy armor and the biggest and most damaging weapons can be a disadvantage. It also seems like they are going to make it where not wearing much armor can be just as viable.
That is one thing I have despised about most traditional mmo's was that you had to have the best equipment out there to be viable in the game.
I think that the devs are going to take the game in the right direction and do things well.
I'm just going to say:
For those of you yodeling and jumping for joy over a FPS system, please go try the free trial of SWG, then check out Neocron 2(Might have free trial). Then come back here and speak about needing change in MMORPG combat.
There's a reason the "old" combat system is everywhere:
It works, and it allows for animations of such beuty and strenght, that they are unheard of in FPS games.
To see an example of that, play the last Jedi Academy game, where sabres were not too badly animated, right?...In a non FPS system, where it's your characters skills that matters, not your mouse/run/duck/jump hand/eye skills that matter, it allows for combat to be coordinated and fluid. Because instead of wildly flying mouses twitching character around, the characters are hooked together, performing together.
I dunno about you, but I'd rather have a character that when fighting looks like he is fighting with skill, than some jagged bunnyjumping retard motion character.
I'm going to have to chime in on
this...
I've already said it a couple times,
but going to say it once again..
The character, its stats, its skills,
and the players knowledge on how to use them should always be more
important then what gear they are wearing. Gear should be important,
but a secondary importance. It should ADD to the character, not BE
and MAKE the character.
Since when does RPG = Gear/Items?
Items are tools, found or made to help you do things more easily.
Without the knowledge of how to use them, without the skill of both
the character and player; they become meaningless in the grand scheme
of things.
You give me a shotgun, pretty much any
shotgun.. and I'll do pretty dang good hunting or trap shooting. I
can say the same with a bow... Yet I have a friend who spends a lot
more time shooting then I do. Give him the same guns or bows, and
he'll out shoot me without breaking a sweat. Why do you think that
is? Cause he's practiced and learned skills on how to do so, and
keeps learning more at a faster pace then I do.
I have a female friend who's big into
fencing, martial arts, and stage combat.. I'll give you the best dang
sword we can find, and we'll give her a 2 foot metal pipe. Want to
lay odds on who would win? We'll make sure to send flowers to you in
the hospital...
Take any pen and paper roleplaying
system, and its the characters stats that mean the most in almost
every aspect. Items add to that and make thinks easier for the
character, thus making them stonger. In the older RPGs computer RPGs
this was the case as well. Its only since the big thrust of MMOs
that items have become more important then the character and its
skills. I think its a trend that needs to stop...
As for FPS vs Turn vs FPS Hybrid.. if
done well Hybrid is the best route to do. It covers the most bases,
and brings more to combat then just all player skill or character
skill/items. A FPS person will do well cause its similar to their
form of combat, and at the same time a more turned based button
smasher will do just as well because their character's stats make a
large difference in what they are doing.
Planetside had its issues.. but it was
a hybrid fps game. Other then Tribes, I suck at FPS. I don't even
know if I consider myself to be “decent” at fps games. Yet I
loved the combat in PS. I did pretty dang well at it even. Not
because I'm a good twitch gamer, but because everyone's character's
skills leveled the playing field a good bit.
Yes it takes more to learn, and yes its
harder to get good at.. but that's the point. There's more to it..
I'm personally tired of button smashing and playing the UI. The
difference is about like going from tic-tac-toe = turn based to
playing chess=hybrid.
Its time for MMOs to grow up a bit,
break some molds, push some boundaries, and start developing more.
That's how improvements to game play come about... While a Hybrid
setup may not be the true answer, we won't know till its tried a few
times and in a variety of ways.
Datawight - Speed is Life, Glory a Necessity, Death a Given!
As to your reasoning about the beauty of animations in MMO's ,, not sure what FPS games you have played but i have found the animations in the last few FPS games i have played to be superior to those in most MMO's.
The reason they keep using the old system is yes because it works , and also because the game makers are stuck in a cookie cutter rut , and because they are flat out lazy. Why bother with something different when people keep buying rehashes of the same old thing, when you don't have to worry about actual collisions in a game and can just auto hit the mob you have targetted. Takes tons of skill to stay facing a mob while you hit your attack hotkeys.
On the other hand if its an MMORPG I prefer the hybrid system sort of what like planetside had only taken a few steps further. To me thats the ideal mix , player skill interacting with your characters skill equally. Instead of player skill or character skill being the sole focus and the only thing that matters.
Hybrid fps allows for a lot more tactics to be used. It adds depth to a game if it is done correctly , and frankly the turn based MMO's lack depth in a major way. Trun based MMO's you play the UI more than anything else, you don't pay attention to choke points or hills or things you can use for a tactical advantage. You just play whack a mole with the UI. Why? because the nature of the turn based game takes away any possibility of those being an advantage or disadvantage. If you poke your head out from behind a rock to attack the enemy doesn't have a chance to hit the rock , if they fire when you pop out even if you duck behind again you get get hit by the magic arrow , spell , whatever.
Every turn based mmo I have played you could bot a toon or 4. EQ I used to bot a shammy that was on a desk 6 feet away from me. DAOC lots and lots of people ran shammy bots. The game can't be all that challenging if you can run bots fairly easily or very easily, all it is then is gear and button mashing while the game mechanics themselves do most of the work for you.
The bunny hop is a carryover from quake and is in turn based games for a couple of reasons. 1st and foremost because its turn based, its easy to avoid attacks because except for the rare AE attack you only have a cone area in front of you in which you can hit anything. 2 they never bother to put in directional attacks. 3 because I guess the usual Irish standoff method of turn based mmo's isn't all that fun compared to actually doing something other than whackamole with the UI.
It's third person (first person optional or for sniper scopes) and a roleplaying hybrid so why does everyone keep calling it an FPS - I think its confusing lol