At least now any potential devs that read MMORPG.com can see people don't want oldschool social focused MMOs, but MMOs that let you solo to your hearts content. In fact, maybe they can put multiboxing built into it (which some MMOs actually have done, but I think its only been the asian grinder ones)
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
At least now any potential devs that read MMORPG.com can see people don't want oldschool social focused MMOs, but MMOs that let you solo to your hearts content. In fact, maybe they can put multiboxing built into it (which some MMOs actually have done, but I think its only been the asian grinder ones)
oldschool social focused MMOs don't mean forced group . That's why so many fall in to the trap .
I solo a lots in older days too , and what make oldschool social because most of the contents are pretty much group friendly compare to unforgiving instance rush nowadays .
Character design also more about group play instead of solo play like modern design , you get more group buff compare to self buff or DPS skill like modern MMORPG .
And because contents are simple (mostly mob hunting) so it make group up being more friendly as level requirement gap being bigger (sometime 10 to 20 level) compare to 5 level like nowadays .
At least now any potential devs that read MMORPG.com can see people don't want oldschool social focused MMOs, but MMOs that let you solo to your hearts content. In fact, maybe they can put multiboxing built into it (which some MMOs actually have done, but I think its only been the asian grinder ones)
oldschool social focused MMOs don't mean forced group . That's why so many fall in to the trap .
I solo a lots in older days too , and what make oldschool social because most of the contents are pretty much group friendly compare to unforgiving instance rush nowadays .
Character design also more about group play instead of solo play like modern design , you get more group buff compare to self buff or DPS skill like modern MMORPG .
And because contents are simple (mostly mob hunting) so it make group up being more friendly as level requirement gap being bigger (sometime 10 to 20 level) compare to 5 level like nowadays .
True. In both Ultima Online and Asheron's Call I soloed a lot as well in both, but they both offered a group friendly atmosphere (and AC gave bonuses to grouping). But I do remember as oldschool MMOs not being so much forced group...but all were very social atmospheres.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
At least now any potential devs that read MMORPG.com can see people don't want oldschool social focused MMOs, but MMOs that let you solo to your hearts content. In fact, maybe they can put multiboxing built into it (which some MMOs actually have done, but I think its only been the asian grinder ones)
oldschool social focused MMOs don't mean forced group . That's why so many fall in to the trap .
I solo a lots in older days too , and what make oldschool social because most of the contents are pretty much group friendly compare to unforgiving instance rush nowadays .
Character design also more about group play instead of solo play like modern design , you get more group buff compare to self buff or DPS skill like modern MMORPG .
And because contents are simple (mostly mob hunting) so it make group up being more friendly as level requirement gap being bigger (sometime 10 to 20 level) compare to 5 level like nowadays .
True. In both Ultima Online and Asheron's Call I soloed a lot as well in both, but they both offered a group friendly atmosphere (and AC gave bonuses to grouping). But I do remember as oldschool MMOs not being so much forced group...but all were very social atmospheres.
Honestly , i think current in develop MMORPGs also fall into the trap of "forced group" .
"you
must need group to do it" is wrong mind set . The right must be "you
can do it alone, but it easier and enjoyable with friends" .
IDK
where did the Old school = forced group = hard contents start , but the
contents of most old MMORPG are easier compare to modern raid ,
i
can solo a lots of them , but have a healer and tank with you always
make the game easier and more merry with lots people to talk with .
In
first place what make MMORPG social for me is we can share thing with
other , we share the exp from the mob , share the items that one don't
need , share one own story , and share time with other.
Modern MMORPG ? too serious , too rush and to forced
Fair is not an objective term. Once people start trying to decide what's fair you open up a can of worms. Would it be fair if a player could only play for 2 hours a day while other players can play for 16 because they don't work? Would it be fair for a player to buy lots of xp and level boosts from the gift shop because they afford to and other players can't. Would it be fair if some players had multiple accounts to use just for storage and others didn't? Is using a combat macro fair?
I use to double-box but haven't done it in many years. My philosophy is I had no problems with it if the Devs allowed it. It usually made a tedious grind a little more bearable.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I remember when PreparedWoW was on my server and that dude had his 40 box going. It was impossible to level because he was camping the zones I was trying to quest in, and just one shotting everyone, it was actually really funny. When we would brigade against him, the server would lag super bad because of how many people would come.
I wouldn't say that multi boxing ruins anything. If that's how someone wants to play then let them play like that. Sure it's annoying if they are doing world PvP on a 40 box, but it's so easy to kill the multi boxers just because viably playing even half as well as someone on all of those characters is impossible, so if you get a decent small group you can usually wipe them out quick. If the problem isn't pvp, then that's their choice to plow through content by themselves.
Hell, in Lineage 2, it was rare to see someone NOT multi boxing. I hated doing it, so I never did it, but any time I would group someone would always say, hold on let me bring my buffer here, and we would end up with 1 to 3 buffers who were super high level just sitting outside of our party because the game had so many multiboxers.
It's not my cup of tea, but if someone wants to play that many characters at once, than that's their own choice, I don't see any issues.
People were doing this as far back as original Everquest. I never cared one way or another, really. They weren't hurting me.
I agree to a point. The original boxers weren't hurting me. Once the population started spreading out (level wise) or dropped off, it affected how frequently I could get into pick-up groups. I just logged off of EQ1, there's simply no pick-up grouping to be had below 100th level.
I didn't care until it started impacting me.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Try multiboxing in a MMO with high risk - that works only in slow low risk games like WoW.
It only works in low risk and more passive activities regardless of game.
EVE is a poster child for multi boxing, I had 6 accounts myself, only used them all when mining or hauling stuff around.
For PVP only used one at a time, at least after off grid boosting was removed.
In DAOC multi boxing was great for PVE healing while one was soloing and in PVP as buff bots until that was nerfed by range limitations which forced players to bring them into the field.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am really surprised to see so many people on this site defending, even championing, multiboxing. I mean, if someone says they duped an item or something everyone goes crazy around here. If someone is botting, you all go crazy.
Multiboxing is OK, though?
It a ridiculous concept and whether or not a game allows it, it's a form of cheating.
I mean, I just ignore it when I see it.. it doesn't bother me. But I do think to myself, every time, that it's pathetic that something like that is allowed when devs are constantly struggling and putting major effort into balance and things like that.
What is the point in nerfing a single Hunter's OP skill when someone is legitimately allowed to play 5 Hunters at the same time? Stupid.
You might be confusing multi boxing (single player manually controlling multiple characters) with multi botting where a single player uses a computer program or macros to send the same keystrokes to muliple characters.
I support the former and have never done the latter.
EVE recently did away with keystroke botting with programs such as the incorrectly titled program ISBoxer, but has no issue if someone is individually operating 6 mining ships.
I can't see any advantage to multi boxing 5 hunters even in WOW PVE, having a healer, tank or crowd controller makes more sense.
But if talking about keystroke botting multiple accounts, sure that makes sense but I do find that objectionable in PVP or if someone is able to use it to monopolize popular PVE content in an open world game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Multi accounting as explained before shouldn't be a problem in the eyes of the developer, unless it starts negatively impacting the other players. And I highly doubt any developer is gonna look into counter measures or editing content until it does.
Can I have an example of a game ruined because too many players multi-box? And I'm not talking about bots, I mean regular players controlling 2+ accounts simultaneously.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I had a rather pleasant experience with a multiboxer. I was playing a game I think it was Aion not sure now what game it was but I desperately needed a group to complete this quest and I started yelling for one and this chap sent me a tell saying he was multiboxing and would not mind me tagging along. So I did and he played his three toons very well and we finished the quest and went on to group for most of the afternoon and he said he multiboxed because he was unable to find a group most times due to the erratic hours he kept. Nice chap and far from antisocial.
Actually no, multi-boxing shouldn't be allowed in mmorpg's and you'll find if you search it that it is generally complained about, stated that multi-boxing is NOT allowed but OWNING multiple accounts is.
It's funny, Gold farming has been around since UO began and yet around 50% (maybe) still say it shouldn't be in game but going by the replies above, since it's been around so long, it's an ok concept.
Multi-Boxing was NOT an ok thing back then in UO, or AO, some did it, majority didn't, nowadays more multibox but it's still looked down upon by others as generally they are put in with the gold farming bot's when it comes to how you see them.
But then I remember when it was the Elder Scrolls Online Beta, plenty on the forum had taken part, then got the game and the included free month .. then played almost until month was ended and god how many sent in for a refund and others then asked how to do it and get their refund. I mean how damn tight can you be?
Can I have an example of a game ruined because too many players multi-box? And I'm not talking about bots, I mean regular players controlling 2+ accounts simultaneously.
I have read that on the EQ1999 EMU multiboxing is quite prevalent and seeing its an open world game, they can single handedly camp the better grinding spots in the game.
Even though there are multiple channels others have claimed every spot can be taken.
Perhaps hyperbole, not sure, but that is a situation which could be annoying.
Also, these people may be multi botting which is a different thing entirely.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But MMOs are about grouping, the social atmosphere and teaming up with others. Because if not, then its no different than playing a singleplayer RPG if all you are doing is doing all the group content by yourself.
Socializing in MMOs died when game devs started implementing auto-matching for dungeons, raids, and PvP. Sure, these features allow you to group up, but let's be fair; a 10-12 minute dungeon, or less, is cleared rather quickly. In a lot of cases, you're also randomly grouping with another player from another server. You probably will not see him/her again.
Besides, if a player wants to spend the time and money on other accounts, that is their choice. If they want to turn their experience into a solo experience, let them. The more money a game takes in, the better.
Now, I have duo-boxed before (in Everquest), but considering the nature of Everquest, I don't have a problem with that; especially considering the age/population of the game.
In general though, I don't duo-box. Beyond the social aspect, it takes too much to split your attention between two characters.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
this is your opinion of what a MMO is. I started playing online games back in MUDS and ROMs. It was more about the interaction, sharing, communicating etc in addition to, in later MMO's, having an impact on the world or environment you are playing in that others can see and interact with.
When people say that it was meant for grouping, that is not the case, MMO stands for Multiplayer not forced grouping. having the ability to interact with a live person that is non scripted is far more engaging than a Single player game. If that leads to working together than you have taken it even further.
But it is by no means a grouping, working together type envirnment - it just provides the platform for that interaction to exist.
Because i have an impact in the world - I really enjoy Eve. I havent found many other games out there that you had a impact on the world - the closest that came to it was SWG before that NGE crap.
No, anyone who understands the state of MMOs and multiboxing would laugh at the idea that it is ruining games. Unless the boxer is breaking rules (botting, etc.) they tend to be a benefit to a game (by most metrics).
Multi boxing ruins the MMO scene by a LOT.Content designed to be grouped is now EASILY defeated by a soloer who is playing 3/4/5/6 scripted players which is EXACTLY like a botter.
"important part"It is NOT about what you might have played in the past,it is NOT about what you perceive a MMO to be that is an entirely different discussion,we are talking about playing GROUPING content as a single player.Sure some content is often doable by 2-3 players,in that case duo boxing legit is fine and doable but when we are talking about the MMO aspect of a game design,it IS grouping or often as seen ,RAIDING.This is NOT an invitation to load up cheat scripts to run 5/6/7..10 players all by yourself.
I have seen those players IGNORE the other gamer's,they play the MMO by themselves not needing anyone,so why bother having a login screen,why bother playing an MMO to play by yourself,you are not interacting with anyone and are NOT playing the content as intended.
The most anyone can play legit is 2 players,a 3rd could be used as nothing more than adding some small buffs but you are not going to jump around on 3-10+ different accounts legitimately.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I remember when PreparedWoW was on my server and that dude had his 40 box going. It was impossible to level because he was camping the zones I was trying to quest in, and just one shotting everyone, it was actually really funny. When we would brigade against him, the server would lag super bad because of how many people would come.
I wouldn't say that multi boxing ruins anything. If that's how someone wants to play then let them play like that. Sure it's annoying if they are doing world PvP on a 40 box, but it's so easy to kill the multi boxers just because viably playing even half as well as someone on all of those characters is impossible, so if you get a decent small group you can usually wipe them out quick. If the problem isn't pvp, then that's their choice to plow through content by themselves.
Hell, in Lineage 2, it was rare to see someone NOT multi boxing. I hated doing it, so I never did it, but any time I would group someone would always say, hold on let me bring my buffer here, and we would end up with 1 to 3 buffers who were super high level just sitting outside of our party because the game had so many multiboxers.
It's not my cup of tea, but if someone wants to play that many characters at once, than that's their own choice, I don't see any issues.
I didn't care until it started impacting me.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
EVE is a poster child for multi boxing, I had 6 accounts myself, only used them all when mining or hauling stuff around.
For PVP only used one at a time, at least after off grid boosting was removed.
In DAOC multi boxing was great for PVE healing while one was soloing and in PVP as buff bots until that was nerfed by range limitations which forced players to bring them into the field.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I support the former and have never done the latter.
EVE recently did away with keystroke botting with programs such as the incorrectly titled program ISBoxer, but has no issue if someone is individually operating 6 mining ships.
I can't see any advantage to multi boxing 5 hunters even in WOW PVE, having a healer, tank or crowd controller makes more sense.
But if talking about keystroke botting multiple accounts, sure that makes sense but I do find that objectionable in PVP or if someone is able to use it to monopolize popular PVE content in an open world game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
It's funny, Gold farming has been around since UO began and yet around 50% (maybe) still say it shouldn't be in game but going by the replies above, since it's been around so long, it's an ok concept.
Multi-Boxing was NOT an ok thing back then in UO, or AO, some did it, majority didn't, nowadays more multibox but it's still looked down upon by others as generally they are put in with the gold farming bot's when it comes to how you see them.
But then I remember when it was the Elder Scrolls Online Beta, plenty on the forum had taken part, then got the game and the included free month .. then played almost until month was ended and god how many sent in for a refund and others then asked how to do it and get their refund. I mean how damn tight can you be?
Even though there are multiple channels others have claimed every spot can be taken.
Perhaps hyperbole, not sure, but that is a situation which could be annoying.
Also, these people may be multi botting which is a different thing entirely.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Besides, if a player wants to spend the time and money on other accounts, that is their choice. If they want to turn their experience into a solo experience, let them. The more money a game takes in, the better.
Now, I have duo-boxed before (in Everquest), but considering the nature of Everquest, I don't have a problem with that; especially considering the age/population of the game.
In general though, I don't duo-box. Beyond the social aspect, it takes too much to split your attention between two characters.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
"important part"It is NOT about what you might have played in the past,it is NOT about what you perceive a MMO to be that is an entirely different discussion,we are talking about playing GROUPING content as a single player.Sure some content is often doable by 2-3 players,in that case duo boxing legit is fine and doable but when we are talking about the MMO aspect of a game design,it IS grouping or often as seen ,RAIDING.This is NOT an invitation to load up cheat scripts to run 5/6/7..10 players all by yourself.
I have seen those players IGNORE the other gamer's,they play the MMO by themselves not needing anyone,so why bother having a login screen,why bother playing an MMO to play by yourself,you are not interacting with anyone and are NOT playing the content as intended.
The most anyone can play legit is 2 players,a 3rd could be used as nothing more than adding some small buffs but you are not going to jump around on 3-10+ different accounts legitimately.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Or did you mean how many logged in, that number would drop for sure.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon