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A major world of warcraft character turned evil, and fans are freaking out

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  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    An interesting read comparing WoW to serialized television shows and comics. There are some great parallels. See what you think :)

    https://venturebeat.com/2018/08/02/after-seven-expansions-world-of-warcrafts-story-never-had-a-chance/
    TheScavengerFrodoFragins


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • ExplosiveBoltsExplosiveBolts Member UncommonPosts: 22
    Click-bait titles should carry the death penalty.
    jimmywolf
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    Click-bait titles should carry the death penalty.
    Um...what?


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,572
    Newsflash, Sylvanas has always been evil as the Banshee Queen.

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 10,014
    I never paid much attention to the lore in WoW....I knew the horde and alliance didn't like each other and that was about it.
  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,572
    Also, this is why people make fun of gamers.  Good lord.  Calm your tits, it's just a video game.
    jimmywolf[Deleted User]

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    edited August 2018
    SBFord said:
    An interesting read comparing WoW to serialized television shows and comics. There are some great parallels. See what you think :)

    https://venturebeat.com/2018/08/02/after-seven-expansions-world-of-warcrafts-story-never-had-a-chance/
    Well, I'm hoping its not Garrosh 2.0. Anything else...ANYTHING...even if its a copy/paste of the SC2 story...even that is better than Garrosh 2.0

    if its garrosh 2.0, I hope they replace the writers (maybe move them to a different game) and get new writers. If sylvanas is a raid boss, I'm 100% unsubbing because then its no different than Garrosh lol. I imagine they'd actually lose at least some subs (already people said they unsubbed though) at very least if they copy/paste Garrosh but Sylvanas instead.

    It be the laziest, worst writing they could ever do. A literal copy paste of Garrosh, but with a different coat of paint. At least the SC2 ending hasn't really been done in WOW...though Illidan was a redemption story so kinda similar still. Better than garrosh 2.0 still in any case.
    SBFord

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,401
    Her plans were to hold Teld for a base and keep all that Azerite and prevent the alliance from having an easy shipping point to EK.  So she ruined her own plan in (irony) hope that she destroys the hope of the night elves.  And it will still do just the opposite.
    She is fighting this whole thing because "down the line we will fight again".....I Mean...great reason.  Let's prevent the wars down the road by fighting a war now.  A war we can end before it starts by taking and holding Teld...oh wait no let's just destroy it and do what I just said I wouldn't.

    Just sometimes the writing seems ehhhhhhh.  Everything is supposed to be morally gray.  Revenge on ALL life is not morally gray.  It just isn't.  Slaughtering thousands and thousands (and actually more since Teld is the night elf home) of Civilians is not morally gray.
    When the Alliance attacks Undercity, do you think Anduin and Genn will attack Brill and murder all citizens? Especially those not fighting? Or do you think Sylvannas will use the plague and kill her own Citizens/army and some of the alliance forces?  That's morally gray right?

    Except for a tiny bit of Genn attacking Sylv in Legion (which ended up being a pretty amazing idea, especially with BfA now...) the alliance is just "good".

    This Xpac would be so so so so so much better if alliance found the Azerite and was mining it.  Genn convinces Anduin to build preventive measures (and secretly his own weapons to kill the undead).  The horde find learn of both and try to convince anduin to at least get rid of genns.  Anduin doesn't.  Sylv then destroys Genns weapons (that were hidden near NE lands) and take Teld. 
  • jimmywolfjimmywolf Member UncommonPosts: 292
    Ginaz said:
    Also, this is why people make fun of gamers.  Good lord.  Calm your tits, it's just a video game.
    what funny is you can insert anything " this is why people make fun of X " and then follow  " Calm your tits, it's just X . "

    people have pride in many different things physical, abstract, philosophical.

    what irks my ass, is when a opposing view is presented that they or others find distasteful, ignorant or lame and  not worth any effort.

     they  precede  to  give their dismissive thoughts on how absurd it is we feel anything for X beyond mild entertainment or amusement. 
    Ginaz[Deleted User]



  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,572
    jimmywolf said:
    Ginaz said:
    Also, this is why people make fun of gamers.  Good lord.  Calm your tits, it's just a video game.
    what funny is you can insert anything " this is why people make fun of X " and then follow  " Calm your tits, it's just X . "

    people have pride in many different things physical, abstract, philosophical.

    what irks my ass, is when a opposing view is presented that they or others find distasteful, ignorant or lame and  not worth any effort.

     they  precede  to  give their dismissive thoughts on how absurd it is we feel anything for X beyond mild entertainment or amusement. 
    Getting worked up to the point where you attack developers and threaten them because of something you don't like in a video is dumb as hell, no matter how much "pride" you have.  Also, use capital letters at the beginning of your sentences.
    TheScavenger

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    I'm jealous of those that can like video game lore. I have never been able to get into it. I did a bit for divinity 2 original sin but I had to make decisions so I needed to know. 

    I got bored of witcher3 story and I'm only level 7 before I went back to PoE. I never read the PoE story to begin with so I have no clue what is going on.

    But cool that you guys can enjoy a game for the game and as a novel.
    pantaro
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,057
    SBFord said:
    An interesting read comparing WoW to serialized television shows and comics. There are some great parallels. See what you think :)

    https://venturebeat.com/2018/08/02/after-seven-expansions-world-of-warcrafts-story-never-had-a-chance/
    Serialized TV probably should never go beyond 100 episodes, supernatural is a clear example of what can go wrong.  The shows that get it right generally do so because they were well thought out ahead of time.  Others like Breaking Bad were a little more fluid on the details, but the arc of Walt White was clearly thought out from the start.

    As far as WOW goes, TBC was good at escalating the stakes of Vanilla.  WOTLK stepped it up even further.  Following WOTLK was difficult for sure but there were at least three possible paths that could have felt bigger than bringing back Deathwing: Azshara and the Naga threat, fighting the Legion on one of their stronghold planets and The Emerald Dream and it's corruption.  The last two would also have presented interesting artistic options, which is why I always feel disappointed and less immersed when a new expansion is set on Azeroth.

    Anyway, while they have dug a hole for themselves at this point, that doesn't really excuse going against what Sylvanas has always been.  WOW writers tend to simplify struggles, such as this one.  There was no nuance to what Sylvanas did or why she did it.  The writers had a starting point and an end point and just sort of kludged arriving there.

    I do wonder what they will eventually do with Warcraft lore.  A reboot seems like the likely option after WOW is complete.


  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 6,057
    Nyctelios said:
    How many times an important character went "evil"? I lost the count. That's WoW "to go" lore "twist"... Used so many times it is not even a twist anymore - it is that punchline the character says when entering the sitcom studio and the laugh track plays for the sake of keeping the lights on... because people forgot why it was funny couple years ago.
    They usually go insane, but yes you are correct.
  • GanksinatraGanksinatra Member UncommonPosts: 455
    "Turned evil"

    This is the same leader that once killed everyone at Wrathgate......Horde and Alliance....and fored the Ruby Dragonflight to purge the land with fire in order to stop it from spreading to all of Icecrown. 

    The people who think she just "turned evil" haven't been paying attention at all. And "evil" is a judgement call. She sees that several foes have tried and failed to break the spirit of the Alliance. But she also knew no one had burned the World Tree, the very symbol of their life and hope. She has always been a shrewd, ironfisted military leader, even when she was a mere blood elf. If anything, this is her attempt to stave off more killing by showing the Alliance the lengths she is willing to go to. They will never underestimate her fury or ruthlessness again.
    Kyleran
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,949
    lol all the drama around this is actually good marketing, people are already choosing sides, I'm reading takes on other sites, YT vids etc.. its good stuff. Blizz was smart to drop such a problematic and controversial trailer they almost made me want to break my 8 year hiatus.. gotta be quicker than that Blizz! just a little bit quicker 

    Also wasn't Syl always kinda evil?
    pantaro
    "Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."


    "The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."



     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear. 


  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    SBFord said:
    Honestly, I do NOT believe Sylvanas's actions were because she was dissed by that Nelf general. What she realized is that they had already failed the first objective thanks to Saurfang (who refused to kill Malfurion because "muh honer") and that, even if they had, as long as the tree stood, it would stand as a symbol of hope, a galvanizing beacon. 

    In that moment, Sylvanas, angsty words as said by her voice actress aside, realized that she had to burn the tree. Remember: Just moments before she had said, "Secure the beach. Prepare to invade the tree." 

    I was under the impression Slyvanas left the task of delivering the killing blow to Saurfang, and then departed to perform some pressing task such as strangling a bluebird or the like, and thus would be unaware that Malfurion was allowed to live and be delivered to safety. If so it would not have been a factor in her decision.

    Perhaps I missed something, as I was distracted for a bit during the cut-scene.

    As for the morality of Sylvanas, it seems to me she is neither good or evil, such that the ramifications of her actions within the context of the moral spectrum simply no longer register with her. For her, I feel it is all ends, with the means considered and chosen solely on her belief of their pragmatism and efficiency.
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    I'm jealous of those that can like video game lore. I have never been able to get into it. I did a bit for divinity 2 original sin but I had to make decisions so I needed to know. 

    I got bored of witcher3 story and I'm only level 7 before I went back to PoE. I never read the PoE story to begin with so I have no clue what is going on.

    But cool that you guys can enjoy a game for the game and as a novel.
    Part of the reason an RPG is enjoyable is because of the story.
    SBFordpantaroScotPhry
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    edited August 2018
    Xiaoki said:
    Scot said:
    Maybe a LotRo approach is better, that IP protected itself, Turbine could not make up any cobblers they liked just to move a story along or do something "cool" in game.
    LotRO is based on a pre-existing IP that has a beginning, middle and end. The MMO takes place inbetween or on the fringes of that story.

    So, how does that apply to WoW in any way, shape or form?
    I am not saying it does apply to WoW, and because WoW is made it up as they go along, it has got itself into such a mess. WoW is not alone, it does seem that unless the game is a big IP that someone is protecting, anything is on the table if it explains the next content update.
    [Deleted User]
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    Linif said:
    What I want to know, and I'd be surprised if this was the first time it has come up, is where the rest of the Horde Leadership is in all this...
    From what posters have said here they all seem to have been killed of, if you are going to do a Game of Thrones it has to be meaningful and impactful on story, not throw away drama.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    I'm jealous of those that can like video game lore. I have never been able to get into it. I did a bit for divinity 2 original sin but I had to make decisions so I needed to know. 

    I got bored of witcher3 story and I'm only level 7 before I went back to PoE. I never read the PoE story to begin with so I have no clue what is going on.

    But cool that you guys can enjoy a game for the game and as a novel.
    People enjoy games differently and thank heavens for that because otherwise we wouldn't have diversity and variety in games. Enjoying the lore , RPG and story is a great way to truly immerse yourself in a game.
    [Deleted User]Scot

  • pantaropantaro Member RarePosts: 515
    klash2def said:
    lol all the drama around this is actually good marketing, people are already choosing sides, I'm reading takes on other sites, YT vids etc.. its good stuff. Blizz was smart to drop such a problematic and controversial trailer they almost made me want to break my 8 year hiatus.. gotta be quicker than that Blizz! just a little bit quicker 

    Also wasn't Syl always kinda evil?
    this is so damn true! I have posted here stating this and many of my online friends know i am no fan of the game WoW,but i was always kinda interested in the lore of the game. since the Sylvanas cinematic when everyone lost their shit,i have been tweeting with all my friends being they are old school WoW fans all talking about it and generally interested in where they plan on going with all this.

    While long time fans may be raging over it,their are lots of people who dont care about WoW or who have walked away who are now paying very close attention because they wanna know what all the fuss was about. 
    klash2def
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    The one thing that I found odd was the low quality of the trailer, by Blizzard standards. Without all the logos I could argue that it was fan made and not an official one.
    SBFordGobstopper3D[Deleted User]
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,059
    klash2def said:
    lol all the drama around this is actually good marketing, people are already choosing sides, I'm reading takes on other sites, YT vids etc.. its good stuff. Blizz was smart to drop such a problematic and controversial trailer they almost made me want to break my 8 year hiatus.. gotta be quicker than that Blizz! just a little bit quicker 

    Also wasn't Syl always kinda evil?
    Looks like, just like the horde is kinda evil.

    It seems though that some players are having trouble accepting and even embracing they are playing for the dark side.

    They want to be the "good" orc or troll.   The only good orc is a dead orc in my book. (Alliance all the way)  ;)

    When fighting an "enemy", the other side is always the bad guy, and history always favors the winners.

    Yes, civilians are often casualties in war, and are often targeted intentionally. 

    Do you think when the US firebombed Dresden or dropped the two nukes on Japan they weren't well aware of the fact they were committed mass killing of women and children along with their military targets?

    Yet few today paint FDR / Truman as "evil" for developing and using the weapons at their disposal.   (I imagine there are some in Japan still who might)

    But here in the states only a few ever had any angst over the decision as it meant an end to a war that killed many Americans, and untold millions world wide.

    Though my mother was so heavily propagandized against the Japanese (she was 7 when the war broke out) she would never intentionally buy anything Japanese made for the rest of her life.

    Horde players should learn to embrace their dark side but also remember not everyone on their side or the other are necessarily evil or even agee with their leaders decisions, especially the really "evil" ones.

    ;)


    klash2def

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • Gobstopper3DGobstopper3D Member RarePosts: 970
    thunderC said:
    I Can't be the only person who honestly does not give a shit what the story or lore is in WOW or any MMO for that matter, Am I ? Been playing since Vanilla and barely read quest text, If it wasn't for animated cut scene's i still wouldn't know the stormwind king is dead and his brat son now leads my gnome into battle .

       For me MMO's are all about the Questing, Loot & end game. I like the thrill of getting new gear and taking down a difficult opponent. As far as who I'm fighting and why, I could care less.

      
    Story and lore is the only reason I play WoW.  I have been playing since day one of TBC and imo wotlk was the last of the really good stories from wow.  I think it's been on a decline since then and is in a free fall now.

    I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.

  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    GG Blizzard for turning a character like Sylvanas into a war criminal.

    Who ever had the idea should GTFO and stay away from WoW lore.
    SBFord[Deleted User]
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