Dopamine. Instant gratification. That is ultimately what changed the genre. People don’t want to wait for the stuff that makes them feel rewarded. I remember reading a study that found people who cheated on tests felt the same level of gratification as those that studied. The same could be said for gaming both with cheating and skipping the journey.
Look up some of the stories on students cheating in China, many along with their parents feel they have a right to do so in order to gain advantage.
Shows what a fiercely competitive environment can do, no real surprise it carries over into gaming.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My daughter's phone broke a few years ago, She was sad and said "I have no phone. I'm a broken millennial."
Was walking into work yesterday across a very long parking lot.. The temperature was 2 degrees freezing cold wind blowing hard and still dark. I passed by this girl playing a video game on her phone as she was walking in...... Would that qualify as a millennial ?
We like to take the micky out of what the "youth" get up to, but let's be honest we did far dafter things than that.
Platform heel shoes, silk shirts, and plaid bell bottoms for men immediately come to mind.
Never wearing seatbelts while drinking and driving are right up there as well.
My daughter's phone broke a few years ago, She was sad and said "I have no phone. I'm a broken millennial."
Was walking into work yesterday across a very long parking lot.. The temperature was 2 degrees freezing cold wind blowing hard and still dark. I passed by this girl playing a video game on her phone as she was walking in...... Would that qualify as a millennial ?
While geezers like me go for daily 3 mile walks with my face glued to MMORPG.com
The typing part can be a bit challenging if I'm moving too quickly.
"Quickly" being a relative term of course.
I am over 60 years old and do 5.5 miles (9 km) everyday. You wimp.
Do you work? If I didn't I'd be exercising more too, but the day job and commute consumes roughly 13 hrs of every day.
I skip eating lunch and walk for an hour to squeeze what I can in.
I don't commute but I work like a dog . I am a housewife with a house full of people that live like they are in a hotel.
So you stay at home and service your family for free? If you do not like it, my advice is find some job, so you will have excuse to push them to do some homework. As I think, I do not know any housewives, all women I know work.
Yeah, must be nice. Try having a family, or my situation where I am a single parent, I work 40 hours a week, I take my daughter to all her events, and then I get to come home and clean up. So my "day job" is 40 hours, my night job is never-ending. I also work out and find time for other hobbies. Also, it's not for "free" it's so my child can be a child and grow into a good adult. One that does not think socialism is a good idea.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
My daughter's phone broke a few years ago, She was sad and said "I have no phone. I'm a broken millennial."
Was walking into work yesterday across a very long parking lot.. The temperature was 2 degrees freezing cold wind blowing hard and still dark. I passed by this girl playing a video game on her phone as she was walking in...... Would that qualify as a millennial ?
We like to take the micky out of what the "youth" get up to, but let's be honest we did far dafter things than that.
I remember these acid fuelled gangbangs for sure!
More seriously, the stuff happening during Frank Zappa concerts for instance was way more controversial then anything kids nowadays can come up with....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Dopamine. Instant gratification. That is ultimately what changed the genre. People don’t want to wait for the stuff that makes them feel rewarded. I remember reading a study that found people who cheated on tests felt the same level of gratification as those that studied. The same could be said for gaming both with cheating and skipping the journey.
Look up some of the stories on students cheating in China, many along with their parents feel they have a right to do so in order to gain advantage.
Shows what a fiercely competitive environment can do, no real surprise it carries over into gaming.
But in fact the common way to cheat in games is to play longer. Anyway I do not think the instant gratification is the reason. There are many games that reward the players every few minutes literally. I hate that, and I even do not pay attention to the rewards. The problem is - the journey is boring and often pointless. So it is a rational choice to skip it. I do it. Everybody do it. Kill 5 mobs, kill 20 mobs, kill 50 mobs, you are the greatest hero in a MMO! Really? This is the common shit of the so called journey.
The good game needs clear goals, variety of ways to reach them, and these ways should entertain the players. Or the players will play for the rewards as the rest of the game is crap.
The problem is deeper than simply "instant gratification" of course because there are many out there like myself that don't mind long leveling times or spending months to years leveling a character. The problem comes when a company wants to expand and gain a larger customer base and is forced to look into the crowds where that instant gratification is wanted. Appealing to a larger player base means giving up niche ideas like full loot, long grinds, fighting mobs instead of doing quests for experience .. sorry TASKS (I haven't seen a "quest" since EQ2 heritage quests). A small indie company that is building a game they want to play is the only way we're going to get those games we want to play, but there is a serious challenge there as well because the players wanting these niche ideas is not only small, but will still be split because we all want a slightly different niche.
I'll say it again, support the indie teams. It's the only way to get what we as a small niche community want.
The problem is deeper than simply "instant gratification" of course because there are many out there like myself that don't mind long leveling times or spending months to years leveling a character. The problem comes when a company wants to expand and gain a larger customer base and is forced to look into the crowds where that instant gratification is wanted. Appealing to a larger player base means giving up niche ideas like full loot, long grinds, fighting mobs instead of doing quests for experience .. sorry TASKS (I haven't seen a "quest" since EQ2 heritage quests). A small indie company that is building a game they want to play is the only way we're going to get those games we want to play, but there is a serious challenge there as well because the players wanting these niche ideas is not only small, but will still be split because we all want a slightly different niche.
I'll say it again, support the indie teams. It's the only way to get what we as a small niche community want.
I disagree the casual players want instant gratification. They play for fun. And when the game is not fun, they play for the rewards. For example nobody plays TW3 for the rewards. The problem is, even if you have a terrible game you can cover that with waves of rewards. Everybody like to win rewards. So this is a trick used by many companies. It is not what people want, it is a marketing trick.
The problem is deeper than simply "instant gratification" of course because there are many out there like myself that don't mind long leveling times or spending months to years leveling a character. The problem comes when a company wants to expand and gain a larger customer base and is forced to look into the crowds where that instant gratification is wanted. Appealing to a larger player base means giving up niche ideas like full loot, long grinds, fighting mobs instead of doing quests for experience .. sorry TASKS (I haven't seen a "quest" since EQ2 heritage quests). A small indie company that is building a game they want to play is the only way we're going to get those games we want to play, but there is a serious challenge there as well because the players wanting these niche ideas is not only small, but will still be split because we all want a slightly different niche.
I'll say it again, support the indie teams. It's the only way to get what we as a small niche community want.
I disagree the casual players want instant gratification. They play for fun. And when the game is not fun, they play for the rewards. For example nobody plays TW3 for the rewards. The problem is, even if you have a terrible game you can cover that with waves of rewards. Everybody like to win rewards. So this is a trick used by many companies. It is not what people want, it is a marketing trick.
Define fun.
Intense feeling of joy and satisfaction. Or in general a biochemical reaction of releasing of endorphins in the human brain. It is different from the relaxation, which is related to gamma amino butyric acid. That is why the grind is not fun.
Fun in games arises from the skill, the winning, the overcoming a challenge, in general from successful competition or cooperation, as it may be caused from finding some emotional response in other people. It is impulse, not a flow.
My daughter's phone broke a few years ago, She was sad and said "I have no phone. I'm a broken millennial."
Was walking into work yesterday across a very long parking lot.. The temperature was 2 degrees freezing cold wind blowing hard and still dark. I passed by this girl playing a video game on her phone as she was walking in...... Would that qualify as a millennial ?
While geezers like me go for daily 3 mile walks with my face glued to MMORPG.com
The typing part can be a bit challenging if I'm moving too quickly.
"Quickly" being a relative term of course.
I am over 60 years old and do 5.5 miles (9 km) everyday. You wimp.
Do you work? If I didn't I'd be exercising more too, but the day job and commute consumes roughly 13 hrs of every day.
I skip eating lunch and walk for an hour to squeeze what I can in.
I don't commute but I work like a dog . I am a housewife with a house full of people that live like they are in a hotel.
And I bet they don't tip the maid like they should.....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
My daughter's phone broke a few years ago, She was sad and said "I have no phone. I'm a broken millennial."
Was walking into work yesterday across a very long parking lot.. The temperature was 2 degrees freezing cold wind blowing hard and still dark. I passed by this girl playing a video game on her phone as she was walking in...... Would that qualify as a millennial ?
While geezers like me go for daily 3 mile walks with my face glued to MMORPG.com
The typing part can be a bit challenging if I'm moving too quickly.
"Quickly" being a relative term of course.
I am over 60 years old and do 5.5 miles (9 km) everyday. You wimp.
Do you work? If I didn't I'd be exercising more too, but the day job and commute consumes roughly 13 hrs of every day.
I skip eating lunch and walk for an hour to squeeze what I can in.
I don't commute but I work like a dog . I am a housewife with a house full of people that live like they are in a hotel.
Great on you! I find it so odd that every depiction of today's "Strong Women", never is a housewife shown
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
"Don't come near MY LAWN, Cloud!" - AlBQuirky heard to yell last summer
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Gratification is more complex. As it could be caused by many hormones. It is pleasure or satisfaction, or fun. Grind if it is related to progress in the game or to rewards could lead to gratification. But also a PvP combat. Instant gratification is a marketing trick - the players take rewards without any efforts, often even they do not play the game really. Like you was 1 hour online - here is your reward. Or your character moved from point A to point B with automovement - here is your reward. This is very wide spread in the mobile and browser games. And in fact in Asian games too. While in Western games, because the of some christian paradigms, instant gratification is related to obvious illusion of challenge or efforts. Like you one hit a dragon - here is your reward.
Comments
Shows what a fiercely competitive environment can do, no real surprise it carries over into gaming.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
we were just “Stayin Alive”
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
More seriously, the stuff happening during Frank Zappa concerts for instance was way more controversial then anything kids nowadays can come up with....
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I'll say it again, support the indie teams. It's the only way to get what we as a small niche community want.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- AlBQuirky heard to yell last summer
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR