I apologize if I missed a quote, but did Microsoft give a reason why they dropped the title?
Also, with the NGE in SWG, SOE 'tried' to appeal to a broader population. Unfortunately, their marketers are about as good as their QA team. Not to mention dropping an entirely new game on the existing players with no more notice than 2 weeks.
To be fair, I'm sure LA agreed and is just as culpable.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
its going to be fun to see has $OE learned anything about their past mistakes or will vanguard go the same way as SWG. They totally fucked SWG in order to appeal non-MMO'ers and failed miserably. Will they make the same error this time or will they actually let Sigil handle everything in game designing/developing... Funny thing is that because of $OE, Vanguard will lose a lot of customers at launch and if it doesnt get better after few months $OE will most likely take over and show how its done ... and then its baibai Vanguard
Not that i actually care, Vanguard never interested me at the least but this is a good show nonetheless
I had hoped that Van would be the game i stuck with when it was finally released. I've been going from game to game, mostly beta's and trials, but have spent a month or two on games i paid for. I've never seen such blatant lies come from devs that i saw at the end of swg. I was playing DDO for the first month after release, a game that was failing from the onset. So they went out and hired dev's from games that had a great runs for a time. SWG vets will probably remember Tiggs, she was hired. Well to make a long story short, when they announced her arrival i made a lovely long post of the LIES she posted on the SWG forums. Well that got me a nice ban from the DDO forums.
IMO i think Soe is trying to grab the youngest part of the player base, the nge being proof of that. Taking an intricate crafting and player combat template system and simplifing it to the point of idioicy. I've tried out other Soe games and my theory of simplicity seems to hold true.
I still hope Vanguard can keep to what they've been telling us for so long. But to be honest my confidence is shaken, and i'll search on for a new home.
They got rid of archtypes, and let players start at their desired class right at the beginning. While a lot of people used catch-phrases like "you're dumbing down the game", nothing really changed other than your class name didn't change and you werent forced to go visit a trainer at certain intervals to advance.
They changed PC merchants by allowing you to sell while you are offline. Before you had to keep logged into the game and inside your house to sell.
They added Soga models but dont force you to use either the asian style or western style. You can chose what models you prefer from either.
They added more varieties of robes, armor and gear appearances.
They added a "duel" system (oh noes!)
They added PvP (double teh noes!)
They added station exchange servers so people who liked to purchase game items with real cash had a place to play without influencing normal servers (debatable)
They added "action points" to further customize your character
They made locating quest NPC's much easier by using symbols above their heads so you will know if they had something to offer or if you needed to speak with them (oh god.. theyre dumbing down the game!)
Those are the many ways SOE has destroyed EQ2. Im sure some of you can add more ways they destroyed the game since it was released. Feel free to troll this and disect it at your convenience.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Originally posted by JMoney95 See that (to me) makes sense for SOE to do, reaching a wider playerbase is a GOOD THING for them. Why would they want 100k people when they could have 500k people?
See that (to me) makes sense for SOE to do, reaching a wider playerbase is a GOOD THING for them. Why would they want 100k people when they could have 500k people?
EDIT: BTW might want to ditch the sig and Avatar =p
See the point is not if Soe was right as a company to try to get more players, of course it was. Just read my OP where I say what directors talk about at the board meetings.
The point is YOU as a customer will you be happy if you ordered a nice pizza and then they deliver you a portion of spaghetti because it sells more?
Of course you can't compare an MMORPG with a pizza. In a MMORPG you spend lot of time developing your character, for then discovering that it was all wasted time, because the company changed radically the game.
If you are happy for companies to take you for a ride and abuse your wallet and your time, that's your choice.
PS: I ll keep my signature for a while, just to make the point that I am not Vanguard hater (and surely I am not gonna start picking on Sigil and Vanguard, decision has been made and my post is not gonna change it)
PPS: For the guy who posted before me. Nobody said that Soe "destroyed" EQ2, it changed it. Some people liked the changes some didn't. You need to understand that some of people who bougth the game at the beginning don't like the way they changed the game. Destroying a game is something else, only SWG can go close to this definition, because the changes didn't please anyone.
Funny thing is, everyone is crying that SOE's going to change the game. If you even took the time to understand what exactly is happening with this transaction, you'd feel like idiots. SOE is CO-PUBLISHING THE GAME. What that means is they will be manufactuing the distribution of the game (both in box and digitally), and very likely handling billing; nothing else. SOE will NOT be involved in the creative or development process. Now stop crying like a bunch of friggen babies and do your damn research.
Just seems like a really horrible idea to me because my impression is that part of Vanguard's selling point is that it's "EQ the way it should have been, without all of the mistakes that SOE shoved into it" but now they're going back to SOE. This is especially bad since as far as I can tell, Sigil's claim to expertise is 'several core people who worked on EQ but left when SOE broke it'.
While the changes in swg were drastic; try specific
Playing a certain proffession one way for 2 + years then cu comes and takes your favorite abilites away. Just what you were able to do one day the patch comes and nope you cannot do that.
Weapons rendered useless, armor made useless , goals you were working on for carrot and stick suddenly not working at all.
They didn't do this to a few items, but across the board weapons with cu then again 7 months latter with nge. There fixing to add reverse engineering to swg which for a thrid time will change weapons as well.
Then you take abilites that you enjoy once again, you were albe to do this one day wake up next patch opps no longer can, or is it a bug?.
Rewards you looked forward to getting ADKs just completely taken away or made into something of a joke.
Being albe to respec your skills prior to nge as part of a skill based game , then NGE coming and chaning it completely to level based 1 proffession game. So you are bored with one job at any time before nge you could mix match skills do something else. Granted pub 28 added for new players resepc npc but for many that was brought to live servers bugged when they respec they lost levels
NGE took a almost turn based que system combat to a mouse over target clicky fest , which let out so many of the community that either was handicap or just could not partispate in a fast action game
Specials miss firing rates in nge going up to this day 6 months latter specials still miss firing he who does not get heal to work because of game design dies, pub 28 reports of miss firing goings up
As of now a 3 year old game still adding in basic features that reflect status of live game. Things that should have been worked out before NGE took place. They are slowly adding Expertease system which will allow some choices in but over months and months time period
Ui completly changed from being very changable to very static and not albe to resize rador group size and hotkeys the size which can affect ability to target ai . The ui gets in the way of game play and targeting
While we the customers have no say we do have a choice, it is to play pay for this or not.
Originally posted by JMoney95 --------Soe is bad for gamers, because they will change their game to suit the larger player base available, with no respect for previous customers.----------
No offense, but that is by far the dumbest statement I have ever read here, ever. MORE people playing and enjoying a game is BAD FOR GAMERS???
I have a task for you, and any other SoE drama queens, tell us SPECIFIC examples of things SOE did that was sooo terrible (I'll give you SWG since I never played that), I haven't played any SoE game since EQ1 and never had a problem with them, so I really want to see. Not a fanboy or a hater, just never decided on games based purely on company that's publishing them, I play games that are fun to me not who makes them. Now these examples can't be something of just opinion, like "I didn't really like x" because some things you might not like many many people did like (EQ2 changes for example, most people LIKED them). I'm talking straight facts on changes / things they did that are 100% proof they wanted to fuck you. All I've been seeing is "SoE is bad!" without any reason as to WHY besides vague things like "they wrecked EQ", I want to know HOW they wrecked it. and go.
I will give you the specific reason why I quit EQ1, a game I loved and played from first day of launch until shortly after Planes of Power expansion, so approxamitely 3-4 years straight.
I am primarily a soloer who enjoys a challenging adventuring game and crafting. EQ1 provided equal content for soloers-group oriented players-raiders until, starting with Planes of Power, they focused entirely on raiding expansions and forced group expansions. It is noteworthy that this happened after Brad left SOE.
I was a Grandmaster tailor, the first on my server and one of only a handful long afterwards, was self sufficient, being able to collect all required ingredients and make every item including the best that my tradeskill had to offer. This was the original design for crafting, something that any one single player could pursue and enjoy without being dependent on others, as long as they played a strong soloing class like a druid or necro, and were willing to invest the time and effort to accomplish mastering a difficult tradeskill.
Then, with Planes of Power, everything changed, as new tradeskill recipes which eclipsed all the old ones, were introduced which required adventuring in Planes of Power, a raid expansion. SOE fucked me good and made my previous accomplishments worthless since I was only then able to make the lower 75% of my tradeskill items. I was blindsided with a fundamental change in the game's design which had been established for 3-4 years previously, the ability to be a self sufficent crafter.
Needless to say I cancelled shortly afterwards and have refused to give SOE a penny since. Why would I allow them to screw me again, which they have proven willing to do in other games including EQ2 and SWG. They are constantly changing fundamental design aspects of their games after release, after players have invested lots of time building their characters and pursuing goals such as a tradeskills.
It's one thing to add new content and fine tune minor issues which was done quite a bit in those first 3-4 years of EQ1, though many people complained about those nerfs, but fundamental changes of a vision and an established concept are not tolerable. It's akin to bait and switch.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Originally posted by Rayx0r How SOE changed EQ2: They got rid of archtypes, and let players start at their desired class right at the beginning. While a lot of people used catch-phrases like "you're dumbing down the game", nothing really changed other than your class name didn't change and you werent forced to go visit a trainer at certain intervals to advance. They changed PC merchants by allowing you to sell while you are offline. Before you had to keep logged into the game and inside your house to sell. They added Soga models but dont force you to use either the asian style or western style. You can chose what models you prefer from either. They added more varieties of robes, armor and gear appearances. They added a "duel" system (oh noes!) They added PvP (double teh noes!) They added station exchange servers so people who liked to purchase game items with real cash had a place to play without influencing normal servers (debatable) They added "action points" to further customize your character They made locating quest NPC's much easier by using symbols above their heads so you will know if they had something to offer or if you needed to speak with them (oh god.. theyre dumbing down the game!)
Those are the many ways SOE has destroyed EQ2. Im sure some of you can add more ways they destroyed the game since it was released. Feel free to troll this and disect it at your convenience.
Im a current EQ2 play, and have played for awhile, and they are not dumbing down the game at all. All they did was do some minor tweaks to make it more appealing at the early levels, and easier to get into the game for some. Good post Rayx0r.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by Rayx0r How SOE changed EQ2: They got rid of archtypes, and let players start at their desired class right at the beginning. While a lot of people used catch-phrases like "you're dumbing down the game", nothing really changed other than your class name didn't change and you werent forced to go visit a trainer at certain intervals to advance. They changed PC merchants by allowing you to sell while you are offline. Before you had to keep logged into the game and inside your house to sell. They added Soga models but dont force you to use either the asian style or western style. You can chose what models you prefer from either. They added more varieties of robes, armor and gear appearances. They added a "duel" system (oh noes!) They added PvP (double teh noes!) They added station exchange servers so people who liked to purchase game items with real cash had a place to play without influencing normal servers (debatable) They added "action points" to further customize your character They made locating quest NPC's much easier by using symbols above their heads so you will know if they had something to offer or if you needed to speak with them (oh god.. theyre dumbing down the game!)
Those are the many ways SOE has destroyed EQ2. Im sure some of you can add more ways they destroyed the game since it was released. Feel free to troll this and disect it at your convenience.
Im a current EQ2 play, and have played for awhile, and they are not dumbing down the game at all. All they did was do some minor tweaks to make it more appealing at the early levels, and easier to get into the game for some. Good post Rayx0r.
I totally agree with you. I really like the changes they made to EQ2. I dont feel as if its been dumbed down personally (was being sarcastic in my post) but that seems to be the only arguement people make when they try to come up with bad points for EQ2. In reality, theyre enhancing whats already in place by making the interface and mechanics more intuitive.
if intuitive means dumbed down then I guess im a fan of teh dum
tnx btw
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Originally posted by Rayx0r Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by Rayx0r How SOE changed EQ2: They got rid of archtypes, and let players start at their desired class right at the beginning. While a lot of people used catch-phrases like "you're dumbing down the game", nothing really changed other than your class name didn't change and you werent forced to go visit a trainer at certain intervals to advance. They changed PC merchants by allowing you to sell while you are offline. Before you had to keep logged into the game and inside your house to sell. They added Soga models but dont force you to use either the asian style or western style. You can chose what models you prefer from either. They added more varieties of robes, armor and gear appearances. They added a "duel" system (oh noes!) They added PvP (double teh noes!) They added station exchange servers so people who liked to purchase game items with real cash had a place to play without influencing normal servers (debatable) They added "action points" to further customize your character They made locating quest NPC's much easier by using symbols above their heads so you will know if they had something to offer or if you needed to speak with them (oh god.. theyre dumbing down the game!)
Those are the many ways SOE has destroyed EQ2. Im sure some of you can add more ways they destroyed the game since it was released. Feel free to troll this and disect it at your convenience.
Im a current EQ2 play, and have played for awhile, and they are not dumbing down the game at all. All they did was do some minor tweaks to make it more appealing at the early levels, and easier to get into the game for some. Good post Rayx0r.
I totally agree with you. I really like the changes they made to EQ2. I dont feel as if its been dumbed down personally (was being sarcastic in my post) but that seems to be the only arguement people make when they try to come up with bad points for EQ2. In reality, theyre enhancing whats already in place by making the interface and mechanics more intuitive.
if intuitive means dumbed down then I guess im a fan of teh dum
tnx btw
Yea I like the changes too, I personally hated making new characters because levels 1-20 sucked so much, and thats what they changed, for the better. Now I can make a new character, and actually feel like X class. Before the upgrades, if I wanted to be a Warden or Fury, I had to be church bound for 10 levels (priest), and generic for another 10 (druid), I hated that lol.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
I will give you the specific reason why I quit EQ1, a game I loved and played from first day of launch until shortly after Planes of Power expansion, so approxamitely 3-4 years straight.
I am primarily a soloer who enjoys a challenging adventuring game and crafting. EQ1 provided equal content for soloers-group oriented players-raiders until, starting with Planes of Power, they focused entirely on raiding expansions and forced group expansions. It is noteworthy that this happened after Brad left SOE.
I was a Grandmaster tailor, the first on my server and one of only a handful long afterwards, was self sufficient, being able to collect all required ingredients and make every item including the best that my tradeskill had to offer. This was the original design for crafting, something that any one single player could pursue and enjoy without being dependent on others, as long as they played a strong soloing class like a druid or necro, and were willing to invest the time and effort to accomplish mastering a difficult tradeskill.
Then, with Planes of Power, everything changed, as new tradeskill recipes which eclipsed all the old ones, were introduced which required adventuring in Planes of Power, a raid expansion. SOE fucked me good and made my previous accomplishments worthless since I was only then able to make the lower 75% of my tradeskill items. I was blindsided with a fundamental change in the game's design which had been established for 3-4 years previously, the ability to be a self sufficent crafter.
Needless to say I cancelled shortly afterwards and have refused to give SOE a penny since. Why would I allow them to screw me again, which they have proven willing to do in other games including EQ2 and SWG. They are constantly changing fundamental design aspects of their games after release, after players have invested lots of time building their characters and pursuing goals such as a tradeskills.
It's one thing to add new content and fine tune minor issues which was done quite a bit in those first 3-4 years of EQ1, though many people complained about those nerfs, but fundamental changes of a vision and an established concept are not tolerable. It's akin to bait and switch.
ONE expansion made you quit? You do realize that PoP was followed by two expansions 100% aimed at non raiders (LoY and LDoN). Then came a raid expansion (GoD), followed by an expansion that caters equally to groups and raids (OoW), followed by yet another group geared expansion.
They realized their 'mistake' with PoP. PoP was necessary to keep the hardcores in the game though, and it kept em busy for a while so they could make LoY and LDoN for the casuals. Casuals have plenty of options for egar. No, they will never reach raider level gear (why would they need too?) but the amount of single group content in EQ is staggering. LDoNs, DoNs, MMs, OoW zones, DoDH spell missions etc. And there is a nice progression of gear you can get to make you adequately equipped for the next stage.
And (unless PoR changed this) the best player made armor int he game is DoN cultural, which is even better for its time then the original cultural and not as restrictive, and requires drops from....single group zones! And Im sure you can solo/duo some of the drakes with whatever class it was you were soloing with pre PoP (EQ was never a solo friendly game except for a few classes. )
And yes, a lot of the content is forced grouping. But if you play the right class you can still find things to do solo. But to say EQ caters more to the raider then the casual player is 100% false.
edit: just reread your post, seemed to miss the fact you were only a soloer. I dont see Kunark/Velious/Luclin era EQ as having much solo content past level 20 for most classes. So i dont really see your argument that well, other than the fact that they made tradeskill items harder to get, which you have a legit point (thoguh theres still nice stuff to be made with single group content, just not solo). Im not sure if it was Brad's vision for crafters to be able to make stuff for raiders to wear withotu being raiders themselves. Seems to me Kunark and Velious made most tradeskill gear obsolete for raiders, while the PoP stuff catered to raiders. So one hand hand, you were able to make everything but none if it was aimed at raiders. Then they added some raid level equipment that you couldnt make without raiders help (which seems fair to me personally, but i undertsand your frustration).
Originally posted by Pantastic Just seems like a really horrible idea to me because my impression is that part of Vanguard's selling point is that it's "EQ the way it should have been, without all of the mistakes that SOE shoved into it" but now they're going back to SOE. This is especially bad since as far as I can tell, Sigil's claim to expertise is 'several core people who worked on EQ but left when SOE broke it'.
It is the best idea for Vanguard. Ask beta players. MS dropped ship on it for a reason, they won't invest in hardware for a high risk or severly behind project. Dungeon Siege 2 and such are not amazing (or even that well done)games, but solid sellers that take little up keep cost also are always out on time rather completely. If SOE ddin't publish Vanguard no one would most likely.
When you funders leave you, you offer what would be your competition a chance to profit in both markets. SOE isn't going to destroy the Vanguard vision, it just isn't a very well formed vision to begin with.
Originally posted by JMoney95 Originally posted by Samuraisword You must be living in a cave if you need someone to point out just one specific thing SOE did that was bad, yet then you admittedly acknowledge that apparently they did do some bad things in regards to SWG. /boggle Anyways I agree with the OP that Sigil's decision to associate with SOE is a huge mistake from a marketing perspective, and certainly could influence the end product both at release and down the road in a negative way. Forgetting the past leads to future mistakes.
That makes no sense. Try reading. I NEVER PLAYED SWG so I said I would give him the benefit of the doubt on that since I have no idea on it.
Give me specific examples in Everquest, for example, that made it so unbelievably terrible. And I don't want just one, with the amount of drama you cry-babies spew forth about this SOE had to have done like a million things wrong. Give me many.
Here is a fantastic way to game, invented by me, play games based on fun factor, not on companies.
Based on your attittude (which stinks by the way) I doubt any statement will change your closed mind. You've already made it clear in other posts today that you could care less about a company as long as the game is fun.
Well there are others here, myself included who look beyond simplistic things like "fun" My life doesnt evolve around instant gratification but rather less selfish motives.
Companies like Sony are whats wrong with the world today. They are why we have pollution, global warming, lower wages, less benefits, less choices, more lawsuits, less privacy, etc.
Back to the game, I dont play EQ1 but lets use another game as an analogy.
Lets say World of Warcraft is owned by SOE. You join the game at launch and spend 2 years living with broken promises of fixing the game. Then 2 days after you buy the latest expansion, SOE hits you with a bombshell. SOE announces that your profession, mage is being removed from the game along with all caster types. They tell you they're doing this because its too difficult to balance them all (ie. not cost effective).
Now you find yourself player a generic caster with some features from several caster professions. You have no skill tree to make yourself unique.
You find that your gear didnt convert over for the revamp also. That epic wand which was the top weapon of its class is now complete junk. That epic cloak you spent 18 months killing orcs to get is also junk as the revamp changed all stats.
The 2 years you spent gathering buff potions are also junk now. Potions do nothing now
Combat is changed from the classic rpg MMO style with specials to a dumbed down FPS.
The crafting class you spent years working on is a waste now as SOE ups the drop rate on loot drops. SOE also changes the use of components making th rare ones worthless now.
And worse of all, SOE tells you these HUGE changes are coming in 2 weeks. They asked zero feedback from you the community. Instead they SECRETLY used a focus group who didnt like the previous version of the game. They then stole your subscriber money to develop this new game in secret. And finally, they lie the whole time to its community about fixes coming....fixes they never actually planned to do because the revamp was coming.
Within weeks, SWG went from 225k players to less than 40k and falling. Hundreds of thousands of those players went to Vanguard hoping to find a replacement to the complex game SOE stole from them. And then this kick in the teeth from Sigil.
If you cant understand how sickening this, then I feel sorry for you. Because you'll learn the hard way as we all did. SOE doesnt give a damn about you or any promises they make to keep you playing.
I have fled the tyranny of the SOE, only to have it follow.
Where can I flee to, where SOE cannot follow?
Nowhere.
I'm afraid I'll show up on EVE someday and see Oveur and Smed posting about New EVE Enhancements.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by admriker444 Originally posted by JMoney95 Originally posted by Samuraisword You must be living in a cave if you need someone to point out just one specific thing SOE did that was bad, yet then you admittedly acknowledge that apparently they did do some bad things in regards to SWG. /boggle Anyways I agree with the OP that Sigil's decision to associate with SOE is a huge mistake from a marketing perspective, and certainly could influence the end product both at release and down the road in a negative way. Forgetting the past leads to future mistakes.
That makes no sense. Try reading. I NEVER PLAYED SWG so I said I would give him the benefit of the doubt on that since I have no idea on it.
Give me specific examples in Everquest, for example, that made it so unbelievably terrible. And I don't want just one, with the amount of drama you cry-babies spew forth about this SOE had to have done like a million things wrong. Give me many.
Here is a fantastic way to game, invented by me, play games based on fun factor, not on companies.
Based on your attittude (which stinks by the way) I doubt any statement will change your closed mind. You've already made it clear in other posts today that you could care less about a company as long as the game is fun.
Well there are others here, myself included who look beyond simplistic things like "fun" My life doesnt evolve around instant gratification but rather less selfish motives.
Companies like Sony are whats wrong with the world today. They are why we have pollution, global warming, lower wages, less benefits, less choices, more lawsuits, less privacy, etc.
Back to the game, I dont play EQ1 but lets use another game as an analogy.
Lets say World of Warcraft is owned by SOE. You join the game at launch and spend 2 years living with broken promises of fixing the game. Then 2 days after you buy the latest expansion, SOE hits you with a bombshell. SOE announces that your profession, mage is being removed from the game along with all caster types. They tell you they're doing this because its too difficult to balance them all (ie. not cost effective).
Now you find yourself player a generic caster with some features from several caster professions. You have no skill tree to make yourself unique.
You find that your gear didnt convert over for the revamp also. That epic wand which was the top weapon of its class is now complete junk. That epic cloak you spent 18 months killing orcs to get is also junk as the revamp changed all stats.
The 2 years you spent gathering buff potions are also junk now. Potions do nothing now
Combat is changed from the classic rpg MMO style with specials to a dumbed down FPS.
The crafting class you spent years working on is a waste now as SOE ups the drop rate on loot drops. SOE also changes the use of components making th rare ones worthless now.
And worse of all, SOE tells you these HUGE changes are coming in 2 weeks. They asked zero feedback from you the community. Instead they SECRETLY used a focus group who didnt like the previous version of the game. They then stole your subscriber money to develop this new game in secret. And finally, they lie the whole time to its community about fixes coming....fixes they never actually planned to do because the revamp was coming.
Within weeks, SWG went from 225k players to less than 40k and falling. Hundreds of thousands of those players went to Vanguard hoping to find a replacement to the complex game SOE stole from them. And then this kick in the teeth from Sigil.
If you cant understand how sickening this, then I feel sorry for you. Because you'll learn the hard way as we all did. SOE doesnt give a damn about you or any promises they make to keep you playing.
I can vouch for this statement. I had a Scout Blaster that was 221 max damage, made with base tissue and got a max damage slice. I also had a DE-10 that was 385 max made with +45 tissue, and got a 22% damage slice. The Scout Blaster converted slightly faster than the DE-10, and about 12 more max damage than the DE-10. I paid 10k for the Scout, and traded a full suit of BH armor (this was back when you had to spend endless days getting Black Sun to spawn on Yavin, and had like a 1% chance of getting a piece, in other words it took me damn forever to get the whole suit) for a DE-10 schematic and the barrel, which I had made into the 1st DE-10 on my server, Shadowfire.
See the difference?
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Well there are others here, myself included who look beyond simplistic things like "fun" My life doesnt evolve around instant gratification but rather less selfish motives. Companies like Sony are whats wrong with the world today. They are why we have pollution, global warming, lower wages, less benefits, less choices, more lawsuits, less privacy, etc.
Strange, I thought "fun" was the reason we played games in the first place. And don't you mean my life doesn't "revolve" around instant gratification. Sure SOE broke you heart, they pissed off a lot of people but don't be so melodramatic over a damn GAME. Get out more dude and stop insulting people who want instant fun from a game!
Specific ya want: how about overnight 285 advanced krayt blaster power handlers that you worked your butt off making in your factorys were turned to crap by the combat downgrade making months of playing {work)worthless, i was a 12 point master weaponsmith who took pride in making the best weapons in the game ,and using krayt dragon tissues to make them and they decide to ruin it all they will do the same vanguard..sure games are for fun, some of us like to feel we have made a small vitual life, crafting and building up a character.. and after years of playing to have them basicley say screw you.. you and the game you liked to play mean nothing and we are changing it all .. i wont play another game SOE has its sticky fingers in and i was looking forward to vanguard but no more maybe darkfall will fill the bill when its released for now i guess i will kill horde on WOW
Just out of curiosity, will VG be included in SOE Station Pass? Currently its price is something like $22 so how many VG fans would be willing to pay it just so they can play VG? Of course difference is not big but many people wont give a dime to SOE nevermind buyin SOE SP. And how does SOE CS work in other games since it moved to India? I heard in EQ2 its not exactly 'top-notch'.
Originally posted by anarchyart So Steve, (ste2000) does this mean you won't be playing Vanguard because SOE will be handling publishing, distribution and customer and tech support?
Man, it is not as simple as it looks. I know how Soe behave, if Vanguard is succesful they will buy the game, mark my words.
Plus I am not giving those wankers in SOE 1 penny more of my money. I am sick and tired of being bullied by market analysts that thinks that changing a game in a certain direction will improve sales. When they will learn how to respect their customers I might think again. I play games to enjoy the experience, I don't wanna get stressed for a silly game. I don't need all those BS from fat cats sitting on their chair making decisions they are not qualified to make. Did you see what happened with SWG? Apparently they just changed the game pre-CU, the buggers........ Of course they didn't changed it because the player base begged them, they changed it because their subscription hit rock bottom.
That's Soe, It's all about making money, their customers are irrelevant, you just need to put up with their decision or go and play another game. Sorry I am not having it anymore, there are other games to play and I also have some other interests in life, so I won't be missing anything
PS: I am not an anti-corporation person, I work for one. I am not against Sony or Microsoft (I think Bill is great) or any other corporation, I am just a disappointed customer who played 3 of SOE games and had a very bad experience. When a company keep taking the piss of me as a customer, there is a time you have to say enough is enough. And the time is now for me.
I just have to say I really don't see what people like about Vanguard it just seems far to close to EQ. Then again I haven't been following it much. I don't even see why SOE would take it under its umbrella its just to close to their other games wouldn't they be competing for the same basic audience? Ain't most of the people betaing the game people probably already playing EQ2 or EQ? I think its a dumb part on the part of both companies really.
Originally posted by paade Just out of curiosity, will VG be included in SOE Station Pass? Currently its price is something like $22 so how many VG fans would be willing to pay it just so they can play VG? Of course difference is not big but many people wont give a dime to SOE nevermind buyin SOE SP. And how does SOE CS work in other games since it moved to India? I heard in EQ2 its not exactly 'top-notch'.
1. Yes, VG will be included in SOE Station pass. 2. No idea how many VG fans will pay for SP, personally there are no SOE games that are worth playing atm. 3. SOE phone CS is great, all other forms of support are horrible.
*EDIT* Actually I think MxO is pretty good, if I do play Vanguard I think I'll do SP so I can play MxO too, also I like to log into SWG every now and then and laugh.
Comments
I apologize if I missed a quote, but did Microsoft give a reason why they dropped the title?
Also, with the NGE in SWG, SOE 'tried' to appeal to a broader population. Unfortunately, their marketers are about as good as their QA team. Not to mention dropping an entirely new game on the existing players with no more notice than 2 weeks.
To be fair, I'm sure LA agreed and is just as culpable.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Funny thing is that because of $OE, Vanguard will lose a lot of customers at launch and if it doesnt get better after few months $OE will most likely take over and show how its done
Not that i actually care, Vanguard never interested me at the least but this is a good show nonetheless
As long as SOE stick to the promise of not interfering with the way Sigil developes the game then I don't think this will be an issue.
I had hoped that Van would be the game i stuck with when it was finally released. I've been going from game to game, mostly beta's and trials, but have spent a month or two on games i paid for. I've never seen such blatant lies come from devs that i saw at the end of swg. I was playing DDO for the first month after release, a game that was failing from the onset. So they went out and hired dev's from games that had a great runs for a time. SWG vets will probably remember Tiggs, she was hired. Well to make a long story short, when they announced her arrival i made a lovely long post of the LIES she posted on the SWG forums. Well that got me a nice ban from the DDO forums.
IMO i think Soe is trying to grab the youngest part of the player base, the nge being proof of that. Taking an intricate crafting and player combat template system and simplifing it to the point of idioicy. I've tried out other Soe games and my theory of simplicity seems to hold true.
I still hope Vanguard can keep to what they've been telling us for so long. But to be honest my confidence is shaken, and i'll search on for a new home.
How SOE changed EQ2:
They got rid of archtypes, and let players start at their desired class right at the beginning. While a lot of people used catch-phrases like "you're dumbing down the game", nothing really changed other than your class name didn't change and you werent forced to go visit a trainer at certain intervals to advance.
They changed PC merchants by allowing you to sell while you are offline. Before you had to keep logged into the game and inside your house to sell.
They added Soga models but dont force you to use either the asian style or western style. You can chose what models you prefer from either.
They added more varieties of robes, armor and gear appearances.
They added a "duel" system (oh noes!)
They added PvP (double teh noes!)
They added station exchange servers so people who liked to purchase game items with real cash had a place to play without influencing normal servers (debatable)
They added "action points" to further customize your character
They made locating quest NPC's much easier by using symbols above their heads so you will know if they had something to offer or if you needed to speak with them (oh god.. theyre dumbing down the game!)
Those are the many ways SOE has destroyed EQ2. Im sure some of you can add more ways they destroyed the game since it was released. Feel free to troll this and disect it at your convenience.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
EDIT: BTW might want to ditch the sig and Avatar =p
See the point is not if Soe was right as a company to try to get more players, of course it was.
Just read my OP where I say what directors talk about at the board meetings.
The point is YOU as a customer will you be happy if you ordered a nice pizza and then they deliver you a portion of spaghetti because it sells more?
Of course you can't compare an MMORPG with a pizza.
In a MMORPG you spend lot of time developing your character, for then discovering that it was all wasted time, because the company changed radically the game.
If you are happy for companies to take you for a ride and abuse your wallet and your time, that's your choice.
PS: I ll keep my signature for a while, just to make the point that I am not Vanguard hater (and surely I am not gonna start picking on Sigil and Vanguard, decision has been made and my post is not gonna change it)
PPS: For the guy who posted before me.
Nobody said that Soe "destroyed" EQ2, it changed it.
Some people liked the changes some didn't.
You need to understand that some of people who bougth the game at the beginning don't like the way they changed the game.
Destroying a game is something else, only SWG can go close to this definition, because the changes didn't please anyone.
Just seems like a really horrible idea to me because my impression is that part of Vanguard's selling point is that it's "EQ the way it should have been, without all of the mistakes that SOE shoved into it" but now they're going back to SOE. This is especially bad since as far as I can tell, Sigil's claim to expertise is 'several core people who worked on EQ but left when SOE broke it'.
While the changes in swg were drastic; try specific
Playing a certain proffession one way for 2 + years then cu comes and takes your favorite abilites away. Just what you were able to do one day the patch comes and nope you cannot do that.
Weapons rendered useless, armor made useless , goals you were working on for carrot and stick suddenly not working at all.
They didn't do this to a few items, but across the board weapons with cu then again 7 months latter with nge. There fixing to add reverse engineering to swg which for a thrid time will change weapons as well.
Then you take abilites that you enjoy once again, you were albe to do this one day wake up next patch opps no longer can, or is it a bug?.
Rewards you looked forward to getting ADKs just completely taken away or made into something of a joke.
Being albe to respec your skills prior to nge as part of a skill based game , then NGE coming and chaning it completely to level based 1 proffession game. So you are bored with one job at any time before nge you could mix match skills do something else. Granted pub 28 added for new players resepc npc but for many that was brought to live servers bugged when they respec they lost levels
NGE took a almost turn based que system combat to a mouse over target clicky fest , which let out so many of the community that either was handicap or just could not partispate in a fast action game
Specials miss firing rates in nge going up to this day 6 months latter specials still miss firing he who does not get heal to work because of game design dies, pub 28 reports of miss firing goings up
As of now a 3 year old game still adding in basic features that reflect status of live game. Things that should have been worked out before NGE took place. They are slowly adding Expertease system which will allow some choices in but over months and months time period
Ui completly changed from being very changable to very static and not albe to resize rador group size and hotkeys the size which can affect ability to target ai . The ui gets in the way of game play and targeting
While we the customers have no say we do have a choice, it is to play pay for this or not.
I will give you the specific reason why I quit EQ1, a game I loved and played from first day of launch until shortly after Planes of Power expansion, so approxamitely 3-4 years straight.
I am primarily a soloer who enjoys a challenging adventuring game and crafting. EQ1 provided equal content for soloers-group oriented players-raiders until, starting with Planes of Power, they focused entirely on raiding expansions and forced group expansions. It is noteworthy that this happened after Brad left SOE.
I was a Grandmaster tailor, the first on my server and one of only a handful long afterwards, was self sufficient, being able to collect all required ingredients and make every item including the best that my tradeskill had to offer. This was the original design for crafting, something that any one single player could pursue and enjoy without being dependent on others, as long as they played a strong soloing class like a druid or necro, and were willing to invest the time and effort to accomplish mastering a difficult tradeskill.
Then, with Planes of Power, everything changed, as new tradeskill recipes which eclipsed all the old ones, were introduced which required adventuring in Planes of Power, a raid expansion. SOE fucked me good and made my previous accomplishments worthless since I was only then able to make the lower 75% of my tradeskill items. I was blindsided with a fundamental change in the game's design which had been established for 3-4 years previously, the ability to be a self sufficent crafter.
Needless to say I cancelled shortly afterwards and have refused to give SOE a penny since. Why would I allow them to screw me again, which they have proven willing to do in other games including EQ2 and SWG. They are constantly changing fundamental design aspects of their games after release, after players have invested lots of time building their characters and pursuing goals such as a tradeskills.
It's one thing to add new content and fine tune minor issues which was done quite a bit in those first 3-4 years of EQ1, though many people complained about those nerfs, but fundamental changes of a vision and an established concept are not tolerable. It's akin to bait and switch.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
I totally agree with you. I really like the changes they made to EQ2. I dont feel as if its been dumbed down personally (was being sarcastic in my post) but that seems to be the only arguement people make when they try to come up with bad points for EQ2. In reality, theyre enhancing whats already in place by making the interface and mechanics more intuitive.
if intuitive means dumbed down then I guess im a fan of teh dum
tnx btw
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I totally agree with you. I really like the changes they made to EQ2. I dont feel as if its been dumbed down personally (was being sarcastic in my post) but that seems to be the only arguement people make when they try to come up with bad points for EQ2. In reality, theyre enhancing whats already in place by making the interface and mechanics more intuitive.
if intuitive means dumbed down then I guess im a fan of teh dum
tnx btw
Yea I like the changes too, I personally hated making new characters because levels 1-20 sucked so much, and thats what they changed, for the better. Now I can make a new character, and actually feel like X class. Before the upgrades, if I wanted to be a Warden or Fury, I had to be church bound for 10 levels (priest), and generic for another 10 (druid), I hated that lol.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
I will give you the specific reason why I quit EQ1, a game I loved and played from first day of launch until shortly after Planes of Power expansion, so approxamitely 3-4 years straight.
I am primarily a soloer who enjoys a challenging adventuring game and crafting. EQ1 provided equal content for soloers-group oriented players-raiders until, starting with Planes of Power, they focused entirely on raiding expansions and forced group expansions. It is noteworthy that this happened after Brad left SOE.
I was a Grandmaster tailor, the first on my server and one of only a handful long afterwards, was self sufficient, being able to collect all required ingredients and make every item including the best that my tradeskill had to offer. This was the original design for crafting, something that any one single player could pursue and enjoy without being dependent on others, as long as they played a strong soloing class like a druid or necro, and were willing to invest the time and effort to accomplish mastering a difficult tradeskill.
Then, with Planes of Power, everything changed, as new tradeskill recipes which eclipsed all the old ones, were introduced which required adventuring in Planes of Power, a raid expansion. SOE fucked me good and made my previous accomplishments worthless since I was only then able to make the lower 75% of my tradeskill items. I was blindsided with a fundamental change in the game's design which had been established for 3-4 years previously, the ability to be a self sufficent crafter.
Needless to say I cancelled shortly afterwards and have refused to give SOE a penny since. Why would I allow them to screw me again, which they have proven willing to do in other games including EQ2 and SWG. They are constantly changing fundamental design aspects of their games after release, after players have invested lots of time building their characters and pursuing goals such as a tradeskills.
It's one thing to add new content and fine tune minor issues which was done quite a bit in those first 3-4 years of EQ1, though many people complained about those nerfs, but fundamental changes of a vision and an established concept are not tolerable. It's akin to bait and switch.
ONE expansion made you quit? You do realize that PoP was followed by two expansions 100% aimed at non raiders (LoY and LDoN). Then came a raid expansion (GoD), followed by an expansion that caters equally to groups and raids (OoW), followed by yet another group geared expansion.
They realized their 'mistake' with PoP. PoP was necessary to keep the hardcores in the game though, and it kept em busy for a while so they could make LoY and LDoN for the casuals. Casuals have plenty of options for egar. No, they will never reach raider level gear (why would they need too?) but the amount of single group content in EQ is staggering. LDoNs, DoNs, MMs, OoW zones, DoDH spell missions etc. And there is a nice progression of gear you can get to make you adequately equipped for the next stage.
And (unless PoR changed this) the best player made armor int he game is DoN cultural, which is even better for its time then the original cultural and not as restrictive, and requires drops from....single group zones! And Im sure you can solo/duo some of the drakes with whatever class it was you were soloing with pre PoP (EQ was never a solo friendly game except for a few classes. )
And yes, a lot of the content is forced grouping. But if you play the right class you can still find things to do solo. But to say EQ caters more to the raider then the casual player is 100% false.
edit: just reread your post, seemed to miss the fact you were only a soloer. I dont see Kunark/Velious/Luclin era EQ as having much solo content past level 20 for most classes. So i dont really see your argument that well, other than the fact that they made tradeskill items harder to get, which you have a legit point (thoguh theres still nice stuff to be made with single group content, just not solo). Im not sure if it was Brad's vision for crafters to be able to make stuff for raiders to wear withotu being raiders themselves. Seems to me Kunark and Velious made most tradeskill gear obsolete for raiders, while the PoP stuff catered to raiders. So one hand hand, you were able to make everything but none if it was aimed at raiders. Then they added some raid level equipment that you couldnt make without raiders help (which seems fair to me personally, but i undertsand your frustration).
It is the best idea for Vanguard. Ask beta players. MS dropped ship on it for a reason, they won't invest in hardware for a high risk or severly behind project. Dungeon Siege 2 and such are not amazing (or even that well done)games, but solid sellers that take little up keep cost also are always out on time rather completely. If SOE ddin't publish Vanguard no one would most likely.
When you funders leave you, you offer what would be your competition a chance to profit in both markets. SOE isn't going to destroy the Vanguard vision, it just isn't a very well formed vision to begin with.
That makes no sense. Try reading. I NEVER PLAYED SWG so I said I would give him the benefit of the doubt on that since I have no idea on it.
Give me specific examples in Everquest, for example, that made it so unbelievably terrible. And I don't want just one, with the amount of drama you cry-babies spew forth about this SOE had to have done like a million things wrong. Give me many.
Here is a fantastic way to game, invented by me, play games based on fun factor, not on companies.
Based on your attittude (which stinks by the way) I doubt any statement will change your closed mind. You've already made it clear in other posts today that you could care less about a company as long as the game is fun.
Well there are others here, myself included who look beyond simplistic things like "fun" My life doesnt evolve around instant gratification but rather less selfish motives.
Companies like Sony are whats wrong with the world today. They are why we have pollution, global warming, lower wages, less benefits, less choices, more lawsuits, less privacy, etc.
Back to the game, I dont play EQ1 but lets use another game as an analogy.
Lets say World of Warcraft is owned by SOE. You join the game at launch and spend 2 years living with broken promises of fixing the game. Then 2 days after you buy the latest expansion, SOE hits you with a bombshell. SOE announces that your profession, mage is being removed from the game along with all caster types. They tell you they're doing this because its too difficult to balance them all (ie. not cost effective).
Now you find yourself player a generic caster with some features from several caster professions. You have no skill tree to make yourself unique.
You find that your gear didnt convert over for the revamp also. That epic wand which was the top weapon of its class is now complete junk. That epic cloak you spent 18 months killing orcs to get is also junk as the revamp changed all stats.
The 2 years you spent gathering buff potions are also junk now. Potions do nothing now
Combat is changed from the classic rpg MMO style with specials to a dumbed down FPS.
The crafting class you spent years working on is a waste now as SOE ups the drop rate on loot drops. SOE also changes the use of components making th rare ones worthless now.
And worse of all, SOE tells you these HUGE changes are coming in 2 weeks. They asked zero feedback from you the community. Instead they SECRETLY used a focus group who didnt like the previous version of the game. They then stole your subscriber money to develop this new game in secret. And finally, they lie the whole time to its community about fixes coming....fixes they never actually planned to do because the revamp was coming.
Within weeks, SWG went from 225k players to less than 40k and falling. Hundreds of thousands of those players went to Vanguard hoping to find a replacement to the complex game SOE stole from them. And then this kick in the teeth from Sigil.
If you cant understand how sickening this, then I feel sorry for you. Because you'll learn the hard way as we all did. SOE doesnt give a damn about you or any promises they make to keep you playing.
I have fled the tyranny of the SOE, only to have it follow.
Where can I flee to, where SOE cannot follow?
Nowhere.
I'm afraid I'll show up on EVE someday and see Oveur and Smed posting about New EVE Enhancements.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
That makes no sense. Try reading. I NEVER PLAYED SWG so I said I would give him the benefit of the doubt on that since I have no idea on it.
Give me specific examples in Everquest, for example, that made it so unbelievably terrible. And I don't want just one, with the amount of drama you cry-babies spew forth about this SOE had to have done like a million things wrong. Give me many.
Here is a fantastic way to game, invented by me, play games based on fun factor, not on companies.
Based on your attittude (which stinks by the way) I doubt any statement will change your closed mind. You've already made it clear in other posts today that you could care less about a company as long as the game is fun.
Well there are others here, myself included who look beyond simplistic things like "fun" My life doesnt evolve around instant gratification but rather less selfish motives.
Companies like Sony are whats wrong with the world today. They are why we have pollution, global warming, lower wages, less benefits, less choices, more lawsuits, less privacy, etc.
Back to the game, I dont play EQ1 but lets use another game as an analogy.
Lets say World of Warcraft is owned by SOE. You join the game at launch and spend 2 years living with broken promises of fixing the game. Then 2 days after you buy the latest expansion, SOE hits you with a bombshell. SOE announces that your profession, mage is being removed from the game along with all caster types. They tell you they're doing this because its too difficult to balance them all (ie. not cost effective).
Now you find yourself player a generic caster with some features from several caster professions. You have no skill tree to make yourself unique.
You find that your gear didnt convert over for the revamp also. That epic wand which was the top weapon of its class is now complete junk. That epic cloak you spent 18 months killing orcs to get is also junk as the revamp changed all stats.
The 2 years you spent gathering buff potions are also junk now. Potions do nothing now
Combat is changed from the classic rpg MMO style with specials to a dumbed down FPS.
The crafting class you spent years working on is a waste now as SOE ups the drop rate on loot drops. SOE also changes the use of components making th rare ones worthless now.
And worse of all, SOE tells you these HUGE changes are coming in 2 weeks. They asked zero feedback from you the community. Instead they SECRETLY used a focus group who didnt like the previous version of the game. They then stole your subscriber money to develop this new game in secret. And finally, they lie the whole time to its community about fixes coming....fixes they never actually planned to do because the revamp was coming.
Within weeks, SWG went from 225k players to less than 40k and falling. Hundreds of thousands of those players went to Vanguard hoping to find a replacement to the complex game SOE stole from them. And then this kick in the teeth from Sigil.
If you cant understand how sickening this, then I feel sorry for you. Because you'll learn the hard way as we all did. SOE doesnt give a damn about you or any promises they make to keep you playing.
I can vouch for this statement. I had a Scout Blaster that was 221 max damage, made with base tissue and got a max damage slice. I also had a DE-10 that was 385 max made with +45 tissue, and got a 22% damage slice. The Scout Blaster converted slightly faster than the DE-10, and about 12 more max damage than the DE-10. I paid 10k for the Scout, and traded a full suit of BH armor (this was back when you had to spend endless days getting Black Sun to spawn on Yavin, and had like a 1% chance of getting a piece, in other words it took me damn forever to get the whole suit) for a DE-10 schematic and the barrel, which I had made into the 1st DE-10 on my server, Shadowfire.
See the difference?
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Strange, I thought "fun" was the reason we played games in the first place. And don't you mean my life doesn't "revolve" around instant gratification. Sure SOE broke you heart, they pissed off a lot of people but don't be so melodramatic over a damn GAME. Get out more dude and stop insulting people who want instant fun from a game!
they will do the same vanguard..sure games are for fun, some of us like to feel we have made a small vitual life, crafting and building up a character.. and after years of playing to have them basicley say screw you.. you and the game you liked to play mean nothing and we are changing it all .. i wont play another game SOE has its sticky fingers in and i was looking forward to vanguard but no more maybe darkfall will fill the bill when its released for now i guess i will kill horde on WOW
And how does SOE CS work in other games since it moved to India? I heard in EQ2 its not exactly 'top-notch'.
I know how Soe behave, if Vanguard is succesful they will buy the game, mark my words.
Plus I am not giving those wankers in SOE 1 penny more of my money.
I am sick and tired of being bullied by market analysts that thinks that changing a game in a certain direction will improve sales.
When they will learn how to respect their customers I might think again.
I play games to enjoy the experience, I don't wanna get stressed for a silly game.
I don't need all those BS from fat cats sitting on their chair making decisions they are not qualified to make.
Did you see what happened with SWG?
Apparently they just changed the game pre-CU, the buggers........
Of course they didn't changed it because the player base begged them, they changed it because their subscription hit rock bottom.
That's Soe, It's all about making money, their customers are irrelevant, you just need to put up with their decision or go and play another game.
Sorry I am not having it anymore, there are other games to play and I also have some other interests in life, so I won't be missing anything
PS: I am not an anti-corporation person, I work for one.
I am not against Sony or Microsoft (I think Bill is great) or any other corporation, I am just a disappointed customer who played 3 of SOE games and had a very bad experience.
When a company keep taking the piss of me as a customer, there is a time you have to say enough is enough.
And the time is now for me.
2. No idea how many VG fans will pay for SP, personally there are no SOE games that are worth playing atm.
3. SOE phone CS is great, all other forms of support are horrible.
*EDIT* Actually I think MxO is pretty good, if I do play Vanguard I think I'll do SP so I can play MxO too, also I like to log into SWG every now and then and laugh.