Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by War_Dancer
Originally posted by Spathotan
It wasnt made simpiler thats the thing, the archtype system was brain numbingly boring, you had to play the 1st 20 levels of the game as a generic "d00d". The new system also dosent just JUMP right out into handing you everything the class offers either, which was a good move as well.
Depends on your point of view, I don't like the change and it is making it simplier. It's just you like it in this case.
/shrug oh well whatever. This argument/discussion wont have any meaning unless you actually play the game. So im out.
Fair enough, just giving my view as someone who doesn't like cookie cutter class/level systems.
SOE's games are NOT good, and everquest 2 is the best they have to offer, Which isnt a pinnacle of mmo ingenuity since eq2 is as generic and uniformic as mmo's go. I come with experience, Matrix ... planetside ... and ... most importantly SWG ...
I'll give you my story with SWG, which was SOE'S LARGEST financial success untill it betrayed its players ...
I came from EQ, and brought about 35+ people with me to SWG. We set up a bounty hunter guild ( accumilated 250 registered players, half of them active on a daily basis). We hunted jedi yes, but thats not all we did ... We enjoyed treasure and resource hunting, because that was something even bounty hunters could do ( they had harvesting capability, with a particular food you could increase your yield %'s )..because of this, our bounty hunters had creature handler and ranger alternates ...
As WOW grew in success, SOE tried more and more to change the game to mimic WOW's shallow dynamic .. and kept trying to convince players its what they were asking for ( but it wasnt, they had a targeted demographic of potential subscribers and went for it ) ...
At this time, it was estimated there were about 350,000 subscribers ( not to shabby ) ... As the changes kept coming more and more people quit, but sony was confident that after proper marketing and the new STAR WARS episode III, people would leave WOW and other games and come to SWG ....
the combat upgrade came, even more players left and they voiced their dissention and hatred at SOE which prompted a sort of anti-SOE rehetoric at gaming stores and less and less new subscribers were coming ...these people were rightfully pissed, BILLIONS of credits worth of crafting items, and thousands and thousands of playing hours to build up their crafting businesses thrown out the window ( why SOE had to reset resources and f*** over crafting no one knows )
then the NGE came, the news of the NGE came AFTER the TOOW expansion. So you had people buying 6 months subs and buying the TOOW expansion, and the day after SOE announces the NGE . People were angry and pissed, but me and my guild didnt panic ... we figured theyd just F*** over crafters again, not us bounty hunters, but we were Ohhh so wrong ....
with the NGE came these changes ...
1) many many weapons disabled ( high end extremely expensive weapons like elite commabdo weapons ect... ( this was the second time this happened it also happened after the first CU and we were promised this would never happen again )
2) krayt dragon tissues, krayt dragon pearls ( which many people spent over a year hunting dragons to obtain flawless pearls ) were reset ... my ENTIRE personal fortune was invested in krayt tissues, which were used to make the rifles me and my guildies used to Bounty Hunt.... the krayt tissues were not just reset .. but taken out of the game, and we were never given any compensation for it ...
3) clothing and skill attachments that people spent millions on reset or broken ...( for the second time )
4) the expert mixing and matching of profession templates reset ... you could no longer modify your character accourding to how you liked to play you had to be a generic profession which was STATIC.. I forget how many professions there were .. maybe 22? cut down to 9!
5) creature handlers .. ( dont believe sony there were PLENTY OF them) were cut out of the game cuz the programmers couldnt find a way to accurately control pets in the new FPS style combat system .....
6) the attack animations taken out of the game ... moves became shallow and generic .. and you didnt even know when you were performing a special because there was no significant animation ....
7) rangers were taken out of the game
8) all the the " elite" krayt weapons reset to be beginner weapons costing players BILLIONS of dollars .. and equating to MONTHS AND YEARS wasted on this game and the building of their fortunes ....( for the second time )
9) crafting was no longer nessecary in that crafted weapons which were once the elite, now became generic beginner weapons and the LOOT system for elite stuff came into place
10) bounty hunters could no longer Bounty hunt, they couldnt take out missions on jedi or players ( which bascially KILLED MY GUILD ... after the NGE more than half of my guildies never showed up in game again, and the other half slowly left over the period of 3-4 months ( waiting for their subs to run out cuz SOE didnt give them refunds )
11) jedi which once took a year ...and then a few months to obtain ( easier after publishg 9 ), was given to the new young " WOW" players for free, you could start off with jedi .. this made jedi out-numbwer others in the game about 7 to 3
items became untradable.... items that were exclusive to the TOOW expansion became worthless or broken ( waste of money )....
And worst of all, the once fluid turn based combat system turned into this half A$$ed FPS system... Which was very Inaccurate and felt like i was playing a FPS game from the early 90's mid 90's ... attack on castle wolfenstein ( or whatever it was called) was more fluid and more accurate than this one ...
and with this new system came the hack proggies which targeted players with no effort.. ( apparantly not sure if this is how it works, but someone told me the old target lock code was still somewhere mixed in the game and coders utilized it to make these " aimbots" )
from about august 2004 to this time the subscribing base went from 350,000 players to about 10k - 20k MAX ( and the 20k is a generous figure )
These are just the things i remember which effected ME, others of other professions or way of playing have other stories and complaints .....and thats JUST what they did to SWG ... dont get me into EQ or planetside ... or matrix online which although was released as crap SOE never did SH** to fix ...
this is how they repaid me for bringing 40 players from another game to play in SWG, they robbed us, deleted our hard earned stuff, and offered us a " elder" title to compensate for the extreme loss ..
A I am a star wars fan boi (unless my defination of that phrase is off)
I have never played any other SOE games.
Saying this I am told by many people that when SOE aquired MO that it too was ruined. Though I am told it didnt take much to ruin it.
My experience with SWG was that the devolpers never, in the nearly 3 years playing, ever had a CONSISTANT vision of the game. It changed more times than I have fingers and toes. Yes I know games change with time, but thats no excuse to release the game with so many changes that players can not keep up. People want to yell at the victums of SOE's lack of vision saying "Well you just can't adapt" To that I say this. Why should they? Why should all that they achieved be tossed to the wind every few months just because SOE can't/won't be strong and just fix their game?
Fixing a game is not rewriting it over and over again. (vast profession changes, CU, NGE and the new CU)
I have never played a SOE game before SWG and I never will play another game because of SWG.
Those of you who stick with it are either even larger fan boi's than I or are just massochistic. Maybe both.
Message to the devs of SWG. Please make a plan and for god's sakes... keep with it for once.
Originally posted by War_Dancer Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by War_Dancer
Originally posted by Spathotan
It wasnt made simpiler thats the thing, the archtype system was brain numbingly boring, you had to play the 1st 20 levels of the game as a generic "d00d". The new system also dosent just JUMP right out into handing you everything the class offers either, which was a good move as well.
Depends on your point of view, I don't like the change and it is making it simplier. It's just you like it in this case.
/shrug oh well whatever. This argument/discussion wont have any meaning unless you actually play the game. So im out.
Fair enough, just giving my view as someone who doesn't like cookie cutter class/level systems.
Ill bite once more here. I know what you mean, I dont like class/level systems really, but I like MMO's so I dont really have a choice, EvE can kiss my ass. If I want a class/level system id go play FF on a console, but the way todays MMO's are turning out, a skill based system like pre-cu swg seems to be not probable.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by War_Dancer Originally posted by Spathotan Originally posted by War_Dancer
Originally posted by Spathotan
It wasnt made simpiler thats the thing, the archtype system was brain numbingly boring, you had to play the 1st 20 levels of the game as a generic "d00d". The new system also dosent just JUMP right out into handing you everything the class offers either, which was a good move as well.
Depends on your point of view, I don't like the change and it is making it simplier. It's just you like it in this case.
/shrug oh well whatever. This argument/discussion wont have any meaning unless you actually play the game. So im out.
Fair enough, just giving my view as someone who doesn't like cookie cutter class/level systems.
Ill bite once more here. I know what you mean, I dont like class/level systems really, but I like MMO's so I dont really have a choice, EvE can kiss my ass. If I want a class/level system id go play FF on a console, but the way todays MMO's are turning out, a skill based system like pre-cu swg seems to be not probable.
I think one will return eventually. The diversity is there. It just needs a full dedicated team to support it.
I don't think Sony overall is a terrible company or "evil". EQII is a pretty high quality game. I enjoy alot of what it has to offer. I pop in every now and then when I need a break from L2.
The problem with Sony is they are very unpredictable.
The game you are playing right now may change in a few months. Even EQII went through class/skill/trade skill revamp.
When it comes to SWG they seem to have an irrational psycotic desire to redo the combat of the game every few months. To the point that just about everything else is negelected. There is almost zero real game content and less features work now then did 6 months ago.
Originally posted by VixenHeart I admit I have had some crappy experiences with SOE, but I still play their games. How many times have you gone to a fast food place and got shafted out of something? Only to come back a week later and reorder from them again... Just because a company had some issues, or you have had some issues with them in the past doesn't mean you'll stop using their product or buy from them, etc.
ya but at least when i didnt get my fries, i was able to go back and get them without question. SOE hasnt given back anything they forgot to give me the first time.... and fast food joints ill in comparison as an analogy of what this game has done in terms of CS and loyalty to a very very hurt playerbase. sorry but id RATHER be screwed at the fast food joint, it costs me a few bucks and some driving time, no big deal to me. You get screwed in a MMO its a longterm thing, it just doesnt get filled in at home by a bag of chips, lol least not for me
Originally posted by Spathotan Ill bite once more here. I know what you mean, I dont like class/level systems really, but I like MMO's so I dont really have a choice, EvE can kiss my ass. If I want a class/level system id go play FF on a console, but the way todays MMO's are turning out, a skill based system like pre-cu swg seems to be not probable.
I've never played any other soe game, only swg. Ive heard good things about EQ2, and bad about all the other games. Obviously, they've put most of their dev and talented people into eq2 because thats where the money is. Why they have all the other mediocre at best games is beyond me. If i was a producer, I'd rather have one game done right and be widly popular and successful (like Wow) than 5 terrible games in a bundled pack that earns a little bit of money, but constantly generates bad press and reviews. For example, i'll never play eq2 becaues of the way i was treated in swg, and I know im not alone. EQ2 may be a great game, but i'll not give soe another dime.
Actually Planetside is a very good game also. It pioneered the FPSMMO idea. Its just a bit dated now and hasn't been upkept very well. Because of its shooter nature it does get repetitive after awhile.
Its still a blast to play every now and then.
EQII is definately a high quality game. They haven't made a real "wrong turns" with this one since release.
Don't know to much about EQ.
All heard about the Matrix was before Sony got it. At release Matrix was NOT a Sony product, Sony bought it about 6 months or so after its launch. From what I heard it wasn't very good. I have no idea how its come along since then.
Thats what makes SWG such a mystery to me. Sony all in all doesn't do to bad of a job with its games. I guess you need to put all your bad employees somewhere
Originally posted by LilT I've never played any other soe game, only swg. Ive heard good things about EQ2, and bad about all the other games. Obviously, they've put most of their dev and talented people into eq2 because thats where the money is. Why they have all the other mediocre at best games is beyond me. If i was a producer, I'd rather have one game done right and be widly popular and successful (like Wow) than 5 terrible games in a bundled pack that earns a little bit of money, but constantly generates bad press and reviews. For example, i'll never play eq2 becaues of the way i was treated in swg, and I know im not alone. EQ2 may be a great game, but i'll not give soe another dime.
I just recently stopped paying for my SoE All Access accounts. SoE is really about getting the dollars in so much more than what the customers want. I'm not saying they don't do anything good, but most of what they do is kind of like putting bandaides on a huge wound that won't do any good. SWG is a debacle at this point, they really don't know what they want to do with it. I really get the feeling they are trying to make it into Star Wars Battlegrounds online, but its not really an MMORPG game anymore. They are still talking about removing entertainer and trader from the 9 iconic class and with the impending NEW combat changes its going to be a mess. Its like every time they change something major it breaks 5 more things. I don't know, but did they lose all their really creative deveolopers over there? I don't mean that as an insult, but a serious question? As far as EQ 2 its actually lacking in a few area's, stuff like armor diversity and the way the world just feels so much smaller because its so easy to get around now, there is no consequence really for dying. Stuff like this is really hurting their brand name a lot in my opinion. The only way I would go back to SWG no is if they did like they did with Planetside and made it free for year or two to play. As far as EQ 2, i'm taking a wait and see attitude with the new expansion pack on the horizon, maybe they've listened and give us some of the content we're lacking. I did see they are giving us cloaks and the content is for everyone 1-70, so who knows. But until they fix SWG I don't think they will every lose the stigma that surrounds their brand name.
I haven't ever played any of SOE's games besides Galaxies. If Galaxies was your only gameplay with them and you have any self respect, you'd just despise the suckers.
The EQ games seem to be treated very differently by SOE, the forums there have mods and developers who actually talk with the players and discuss gameplay and changes, it seems a much more respectful relationship. They do seem to have done some large combat changes, and there was something about a server merge that was implemented and not announced ahead of time, but their player base seems solid.
The SOE that runs the EQ games and the SOE that guts Galaxies on a daily basis just seems like two different companies.
Originally posted by Ironman2000 I don't know, but did they lose all their really creative deveolopers over there? I don't mean that as an insult, but a serious question?
All the devs that understood the attraction of being a crafter or entertainer are definitly gone. Helios and ChrisChao (or whatever his name is) have both made it very clear they only care about the combat side of the game and that it was a concsious decision to move away from a player created economy and to marginlise the crafters.
Originally posted by Tonkatsu Since most of you seem to know quite a bit more about SOE than I do, I thought I'd pose a question:
Given that most of you feel that SOE ruins everything it touches, how do you account for the constant improvement of Everquest 2? It's not perfect, sure but the PvP element has greatly improved it (for those that enjoy that sort of thing) and they've eliminated needless problems (such as having to be online to sell things). All in all, it seems to be getting better rather than worse. Now, is this due to some different programming team supervising the game (unrelated to the guys that seem to be running everything else into the ground ala the NGE), or perhaps has SOE realized that the SWG cost them so much (in terms of both subs and publicity) that they need to get their act together or risk going under? Or is this just the calm before the storm, when they decide to introduce the new and improved point and click interface with new "Everquesty" elements ? What do you all think?
Any game that needs to consolidate servers, isn't improving in my book. That's only my opinion though. Still I would say that they do take more care of "their stuff" than the stuff they acquired.
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Originally posted by War_Dancer Originally posted by Ironman2000 I don't know, but did they lose all their really creative deveolopers over there? I don't mean that as an insult, but a serious question?
All the devs that understood the attraction of being a crafter or entertainer are definitly gone. Helios and ChrisChao (or whatever his name is) have both made it very clear they only care about the combat side of the game and that it was a concsious decision to move away from a player created economy and to marginlise the crafters.
They don't have designers anymore. No need for them. There has been no need since the launch.
The original brains behind the design were pulled off the project shortly before the launch. Then they kept some minor design crew, with little influence and even less power.
Ever since NGE, just about everyone has left.
While this may seem like a pointless deal, it's a common phase in companies, when they transform from building to selling. In the beginning, you will have many creative, capable people. When money starts coming in, you start rotating them among projects, so the start them according to their vision. As profits are secure, you start removing them, and replace them with salesmen, who can then use existing product to handle the sales, while rehashing the same old fluff. At this point, most of the original people leave on their own, move into upper management, or are let go. Projects enter maintainance phase, where the total investment per year (unless you get cash infusion for expansion or addition) is negligible, perhaps 1-4 person weeks per year. Eventually, before existing projects dwindle, you sell off your company based on past performance, take the cash, while the new owner chops it to pieces, and sells it for more profit, or integrates select few profitable venues into their own company.
This is a common practice, of cashing in on a new business. It's surprising, how many (I won't name them) "famous" software products and companies follow this cycle to the dot. Even some quite famous and popular ones.
SOE will most likely completely outsource their own development from now on, since it's (offshoring, competition, .???) no longer viable to have actual developers employed in SOE itself. Vanguard contract and MxO are good examples, and I'm sure DC comics will follow this exact pattern. Both SWG expansions were produced externally already. I'm sure so are the EQ2 expansions, and I'm not sure if EQ classic will not be ran by an outside department/company as well.
Originally posted by duncan_922 Originally posted by TonkatsuSince most of you seem to know quite a bit more about SOE than I do, I thought I'd pose a question:Given that most of you feel that SOE ruins everything it touches, how do you account for the constant improvement of Everquest 2? It's not perfect, sure but the PvP element has greatly improved it (for those that enjoy that sort of thing) and they've eliminated needless problems (such as having to be online to sell things). All in all, it seems to be getting better rather than worse. Now, is this due to some different programming team supervising the game (unrelated to the guys that seem to be running everything else into the ground ala the NGE), or perhaps has SOE realized that the SWG cost them so much (in terms of both subs and publicity) that they need to get their act together or risk going under? Or is this just the calm before the storm, when they decide to introduce the new and improved point and click interface with new "Everquesty" elements ? What do you all think? Any game that needs to consolidate servers, isn't improving in my book. That's only my opinion though. Still I would say that they do take more care of "their stuff" than the stuff they acquired.
I agree.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Ankor SWG is going to the consule, SOE is a terrible company that cares little for the paying public. Bioware's SW MMO is all you should worry about now.
SWG is not going to console. If you had 1/2 a brain you would know the huge differences between coding enviroments. Bioware is also NOT making a version of SWG. Both of these facts are known.
This, however, does not change the fact that SWG is a pile of bantha poodo.
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by AnkorSWG is going to the consule, SOE is a terrible company that cares little for the paying public. Bioware's SW MMO is all you should worry about now.SWG is not going to console. If you had 1/2 a brain you would know the huge differences between coding enviroments. Bioware is also NOT making a version of SWG. Both of these facts are known. This, however, does not change the fact that SWG is a pile of bantha poodo.
I Agree actually, I don't beleive SWG is going to console.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Ankor SWG is going to the consule, SOE is a terrible company that cares little for the paying public. Bioware's SW MMO is all you should worry about now.
SWG is not going to console. If you had 1/2 a brain you would know the huge differences between coding enviroments. Bioware is also NOT making a version of SWG. Both of these facts are known.
This, however, does not change the fact that SWG is a pile of bantha poodo.
Bioware NOT making a version of SWG is NOT a fact. Sadly, they haven't said either way. They've only said that they are making an MMO... Still, I think it's unlikely, but one can dream right?
SOE knows what you like... You don't! And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Because SOE gets to keep all the money from EQ2 and makes all its own decisions while with SWG everything must be approved by LA and SOE must share the revenue with LA. Naturally SOE would devote the most time, attention and care to EQ2.
Having said that I tried playing EQ2 and it made me yawn before my initial 30 days were even up. Its just another fantasy based MMO and they are a dime a dozen these days. As far as constantly improving I think thats subjective. If you polish a turd is the end result any better than what you started with?
Originally posted by duncan_922 Originally posted by Tonkatsu Since most of you seem to know quite a bit more about SOE than I do, I thought I'd pose a question:
Given that most of you feel that SOE ruins everything it touches, how do you account for the constant improvement of Everquest 2? It's not perfect, sure but the PvP element has greatly improved it (for those that enjoy that sort of thing) and they've eliminated needless problems (such as having to be online to sell things). All in all, it seems to be getting better rather than worse. Now, is this due to some different programming team supervising the game (unrelated to the guys that seem to be running everything else into the ground ala the NGE), or perhaps has SOE realized that the SWG cost them so much (in terms of both subs and publicity) that they need to get their act together or risk going under? Or is this just the calm before the storm, when they decide to introduce the new and improved point and click interface with new "Everquesty" elements ? What do you all think?
Any game that needs to consolidate servers, isn't improving in my book. That's only my opinion though. Still I would say that they do take more care of "their stuff" than the stuff they acquired.
They merged 6 PvE servers with 6 other PvE servers, then opened up 6 PvP servers. They still have the same number of servers. The reason for the merger was there were always to few people to group with in the huge zones like Antonica, Commonlands, Thundering Steepes, places like that. But you could basically always find groups inside Stormhold, Ruins of Varsoon and Fallen Gate. Since the game has some time on it and their are plenty of level 60-70 people, the lower level zones are somewhat barren compared to the zones in Desert of Flames, and now Kingdom of Sky. So, instead of opening up the pvp servers and further spreading the population out, they decided to merge the pve servers to soften that some when the pvp servers went live, so even with lots of people over on pvp now, you would have a much better chance at finding groups to do things, because essentially each pve server has twice as many people as it did before the merge.
I have no complaints about the move, and neither does my GF who is lightyears ahead of me in the game. The broker hasnt been damaged by the move, just more items to choose from now, and more competition so prices have either droped or stayed the same for the most part. Before the merge it was somewhat hard to find a group for instances and what not at late hours, 12AM+ , but now its not for the most part, that simple. The game isnt loosing players, at least not on a mass scale that some you of claim it to be. Show me hard evidence, like real time server population numbers, or send me a voice clip of smedley saying basically the same thing you all are, "guyz EQ2 sux kk, soe is d00m3d wow 4 lif3 lolol" , then ill try to believe you, maybe.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Ankor SWG is going to the consule, SOE is a terrible company that cares little for the paying public. Bioware's SW MMO is all you should worry about now.
SWG is not going to console. If you had 1/2 a brain you would know the huge differences between coding enviroments. Bioware is also NOT making a version of SWG. Both of these facts are known.
This, however, does not change the fact that SWG is a pile of bantha poodo.
"SOE will be creating a DC Comics game for the PC and next generation gaming platforms"
The press release was on June 17, 2005. I site this as an example for why the NGE came out, as a way to simplify the game for a console port. However, after the reaction to the NGE, I think SOE decided to scrap any console plans for SWG. They probably decided that it would be easier to code a new game for both PC and consoles than it would be to change an existing game.
On November 25, Smedley stated (on the forums) that, "Noone is working on an Xbox 360 or PS3 version of SWG (Or PS2, Xbox or PSP), nor is one on the drawing board. Would that be cool someday? Sure... but it's not on our radar at all."
I do not know anything at all about coding, but if they are looking at DC Online to go to both PCs and consoles, I would assume that the "differences between coding enviroments" are not as huge as you stated.
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by AnkorSWG is going to the consule, SOE is a terrible company that cares little for the paying public. Bioware's SW MMO is all you should worry about now.
SWG is not going to console. If you had 1/2 a brain you would know the huge differences between coding enviroments. Bioware is also NOT making a version of SWG. Both of these facts are known. This, however, does not change the fact that SWG is a pile of bantha poodo.
I Agree actually, I don't beleive SWG is going to console.
I agree it probably won't go to console, but I don't think it has anything to do with coding environments as much as the fact that no console player would ever pay a monthly fee for the garbage that is SWG. Having said that I do think that at some point allowing console access probably was considered, but SWG is just too clunky and unimaginative to appeal to a console crowd.
Comments
Depends on your point of view, I don't like the change and it is making it simplier. It's just you like it in this case.
/shrug oh well whatever. This argument/discussion wont have any meaning unless you actually play the game. So im out.
Fair enough, just giving my view as someone who doesn't like cookie cutter class/level systems.
SOE's games are NOT good, and everquest 2 is the best they have to offer, Which isnt a pinnacle of mmo ingenuity since eq2 is as generic and uniformic as mmo's go. I come with experience, Matrix ... planetside ... and ... most importantly SWG ...
I'll give you my story with SWG, which was SOE'S LARGEST financial success untill it betrayed its players ...
I came from EQ, and brought about 35+ people with me to SWG. We set up a bounty hunter guild ( accumilated 250 registered players, half of them active on a daily basis). We hunted jedi yes, but thats not all we did ... We enjoyed treasure and resource hunting, because that was something even bounty hunters could do ( they had harvesting capability, with a particular food you could increase your yield %'s )..because of this, our bounty hunters had creature handler and ranger alternates ...
As WOW grew in success, SOE tried more and more to change the game to mimic WOW's shallow dynamic .. and kept trying to convince players its what they were asking for ( but it wasnt, they had a targeted demographic of potential subscribers and went for it ) ...
At this time, it was estimated there were about 350,000 subscribers ( not to shabby ) ... As the changes kept coming more and more people quit, but sony was confident that after proper marketing and the new STAR WARS episode III, people would leave WOW and other games and come to SWG ....
the combat upgrade came, even more players left and they voiced their dissention and hatred at SOE which prompted a sort of anti-SOE rehetoric at gaming stores and less and less new subscribers were coming ...these people were rightfully pissed, BILLIONS of credits worth of crafting items, and thousands and thousands of playing hours to build up their crafting businesses thrown out the window ( why SOE had to reset resources and f*** over crafting no one knows )
then the NGE came, the news of the NGE came AFTER the TOOW expansion. So you had people buying 6 months subs and buying the TOOW expansion, and the day after SOE announces the NGE . People were angry and pissed, but me and my guild didnt panic ... we figured theyd just F*** over crafters again, not us bounty hunters, but we were Ohhh so wrong ....
with the NGE came these changes ...
1) many many weapons disabled ( high end extremely expensive weapons like elite commabdo weapons ect... ( this was the second time this happened it also happened after the first CU and we were promised this would never happen again )
2) krayt dragon tissues, krayt dragon pearls ( which many people spent over a year hunting dragons to obtain flawless pearls ) were reset ... my ENTIRE personal fortune was invested in krayt tissues, which were used to make the rifles me and my guildies used to Bounty Hunt.... the krayt tissues were not just reset .. but taken out of the game, and we were never given any compensation for it ...
3) clothing and skill attachments that people spent millions on reset or broken ...( for the second time )
4) the expert mixing and matching of profession templates reset ... you could no longer modify your character accourding to how you liked to play you had to be a generic profession which was STATIC.. I forget how many professions there were .. maybe 22? cut down to 9!
5) creature handlers .. ( dont believe sony there were PLENTY OF them) were cut out of the game cuz the programmers couldnt find a way to accurately control pets in the new FPS style combat system .....
6) the attack animations taken out of the game ... moves became shallow and generic .. and you didnt even know when you were performing a special because there was no significant animation ....
7) rangers were taken out of the game
8) all the the " elite" krayt weapons reset to be beginner weapons costing players BILLIONS of dollars .. and equating to MONTHS AND YEARS wasted on this game and the building of their fortunes ....( for the second time )
9) crafting was no longer nessecary in that crafted weapons which were once the elite, now became generic beginner weapons and the LOOT system for elite stuff came into place
10) bounty hunters could no longer Bounty hunt, they couldnt take out missions on jedi or players ( which bascially KILLED MY GUILD ... after the NGE more than half of my guildies never showed up in game again, and the other half slowly left over the period of 3-4 months ( waiting for their subs to run out cuz SOE didnt give them refunds )
11) jedi which once took a year ...and then a few months to obtain ( easier after publishg 9 ), was given to the new young " WOW" players for free, you could start off with jedi .. this made jedi out-numbwer others in the game about 7 to 3
items became untradable.... items that were exclusive to the TOOW expansion became worthless or broken ( waste of money )....
And worst of all, the once fluid turn based combat system turned into this half A$$ed FPS system... Which was very Inaccurate and felt like i was playing a FPS game from the early 90's mid 90's ... attack on castle wolfenstein ( or whatever it was called) was more fluid and more accurate than this one ...
and with this new system came the hack proggies which targeted players with no effort.. ( apparantly not sure if this is how it works, but someone told me the old target lock code was still somewhere mixed in the game and coders utilized it to make these " aimbots" )
from about august 2004 to this time the subscribing base went from 350,000 players to about 10k - 20k MAX ( and the 20k is a generous figure )
These are just the things i remember which effected ME, others of other professions or way of playing have other stories and complaints .....and thats JUST what they did to SWG ... dont get me into EQ or planetside ... or matrix online which although was released as crap SOE never did SH** to fix ...
this is how they repaid me for bringing 40 players from another game to play in SWG, they robbed us, deleted our hard earned stuff, and offered us a " elder" title to compensate for the extreme loss ..
F*** you SOE
I will admit a few things.
A I am a star wars fan boi (unless my defination of that phrase is off)
I have never played any other SOE games.
Saying this I am told by many people that when SOE aquired MO that it too was ruined. Though I am told it didnt take much to ruin it.
My experience with SWG was that the devolpers never, in the nearly 3 years playing, ever had a CONSISTANT vision of the game. It changed more times than I have fingers and toes. Yes I know games change with time, but thats no excuse to release the game with so many changes that players can not keep up. People want to yell at the victums of SOE's lack of vision saying "Well you just can't adapt" To that I say this. Why should they? Why should all that they achieved be tossed to the wind every few months just because SOE can't/won't be strong and just fix their game?
Fixing a game is not rewriting it over and over again. (vast profession changes, CU, NGE and the new CU)
I have never played a SOE game before SWG and I never will play another game because of SWG.
Those of you who stick with it are either even larger fan boi's than I or are just massochistic. Maybe both.
Message to the devs of SWG. Please make a plan and for god's sakes... keep with it for once.
as far as nice compaines go in the gameing industry.. I liked Everquest 2 also as well as evverquest 1... and will play them again someday....
Playing daoc and loving it totally..
have Played
Eq,Eq2,WoW,Coh,Cov,
and other..
which i have forgotten..
Bioware's SW MMO is all you should worry about now.
Depends on your point of view, I don't like the change and it is making it simplier. It's just you like it in this case.
/shrug oh well whatever. This argument/discussion wont have any meaning unless you actually play the game. So im out.
Fair enough, just giving my view as someone who doesn't like cookie cutter class/level systems.
Ill bite once more here. I know what you mean, I dont like class/level systems really, but I like MMO's so I dont really have a choice, EvE can kiss my ass. If I want a class/level system id go play FF on a console, but the way todays MMO's are turning out, a skill based system like pre-cu swg seems to be not probable.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Depends on your point of view, I don't like the change and it is making it simplier. It's just you like it in this case.
/shrug oh well whatever. This argument/discussion wont have any meaning unless you actually play the game. So im out.
Fair enough, just giving my view as someone who doesn't like cookie cutter class/level systems.
Ill bite once more here. I know what you mean, I dont like class/level systems really, but I like MMO's so I dont really have a choice, EvE can kiss my ass. If I want a class/level system id go play FF on a console, but the way todays MMO's are turning out, a skill based system like pre-cu swg seems to be not probable.
I think one will return eventually. The diversity is there. It just needs a full dedicated team to support it.
I don't think Sony overall is a terrible company or "evil". EQII is a pretty high quality game. I enjoy alot of what it has to offer. I pop in every now and then when I need a break from L2.
The problem with Sony is they are very unpredictable.
The game you are playing right now may change in a few months. Even EQII went through class/skill/trade skill revamp.
When it comes to SWG they seem to have an irrational psycotic desire to redo the combat of the game every few months. To the point that just about everything else is negelected. There is almost zero real game content and less features work now then did 6 months ago.
All of that I do agree with
I've never played any other soe game, only swg. Ive heard good things about EQ2, and bad about all the other games. Obviously, they've put most of their dev and talented people into eq2 because thats where the money is. Why they have all the other mediocre at best games is beyond me. If i was a producer, I'd rather have one game done right and be widly popular and successful (like Wow) than 5 terrible games in a bundled pack that earns a little bit of money, but constantly generates bad press and reviews. For example, i'll never play eq2 becaues of the way i was treated in swg, and I know im not alone. EQ2 may be a great game, but i'll not give soe another dime.
For the Horde!
Actually Planetside is a very good game also. It pioneered the FPSMMO idea. Its just a bit dated now and hasn't been upkept very well. Because of its shooter nature it does get repetitive after awhile.
Its still a blast to play every now and then.
EQII is definately a high quality game. They haven't made a real "wrong turns" with this one since release.
Don't know to much about EQ.
All heard about the Matrix was before Sony got it. At release Matrix was NOT a Sony product, Sony bought it about 6 months or so after its launch. From what I heard it wasn't very good. I have no idea how its come along since then.
Thats what makes SWG such a mystery to me. Sony all in all doesn't do to bad of a job with its games. I guess you need to put all your bad employees somewhere
I haven't ever played any of SOE's games besides Galaxies. If Galaxies was your only gameplay with them and you have any self respect, you'd just despise the suckers.
The EQ games seem to be treated very differently by SOE, the forums there have mods and developers who actually talk with the players and discuss gameplay and changes, it seems a much more respectful relationship. They do seem to have done some large combat changes, and there was something about a server merge that was implemented and not announced ahead of time, but their player base seems solid.
The SOE that runs the EQ games and the SOE that guts Galaxies on a daily basis just seems like two different companies.
All the devs that understood the attraction of being a crafter or entertainer are definitly gone. Helios and ChrisChao (or whatever his name is) have both made it very clear they only care about the combat side of the game and that it was a concsious decision to move away from a player created economy and to marginlise the crafters.
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
All the devs that understood the attraction of being a crafter or entertainer are definitly gone. Helios and ChrisChao (or whatever his name is) have both made it very clear they only care about the combat side of the game and that it was a concsious decision to move away from a player created economy and to marginlise the crafters.
They don't have designers anymore. No need for them. There has been no need since the launch.
The original brains behind the design were pulled off the project shortly before the launch. Then they kept some minor design crew, with little influence and even less power.
Ever since NGE, just about everyone has left.
While this may seem like a pointless deal, it's a common phase in companies, when they transform from building to selling.
In the beginning, you will have many creative, capable people.
When money starts coming in, you start rotating them among projects, so the start them according to their vision.
As profits are secure, you start removing them, and replace them with salesmen, who can then use existing product to handle the sales, while rehashing the same old fluff.
At this point, most of the original people leave on their own, move into upper management, or are let go.
Projects enter maintainance phase, where the total investment per year (unless you get cash infusion for expansion or addition) is negligible, perhaps 1-4 person weeks per year.
Eventually, before existing projects dwindle, you sell off your company based on past performance, take the cash, while the new owner chops it to pieces, and sells it for more profit, or integrates select few profitable venues into their own company.
This is a common practice, of cashing in on a new business. It's surprising, how many (I won't name them) "famous" software products and companies follow this cycle to the dot. Even some quite famous and popular ones.
SOE will most likely completely outsource their own development from now on, since it's (offshoring, competition, .???) no longer viable to have actual developers employed in SOE itself. Vanguard contract and MxO are good examples, and I'm sure DC comics will follow this exact pattern. Both SWG expansions were produced externally already. I'm sure so are the EQ2 expansions, and I'm not sure if EQ classic will not be ran by an outside department/company as well.
I agree.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
SWG is not going to console. If you had 1/2 a brain you would know the huge differences between coding enviroments. Bioware is also NOT making a version of SWG. Both of these facts are known.
This, however, does not change the fact that SWG is a pile of bantha poodo.
I Agree actually, I don't beleive SWG is going to console.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
SWG is not going to console. If you had 1/2 a brain you would know the huge differences between coding enviroments. Bioware is also NOT making a version of SWG. Both of these facts are known.
This, however, does not change the fact that SWG is a pile of bantha poodo.
Bioware NOT making a version of SWG is NOT a fact. Sadly, they haven't said either way. They've only said that they are making an MMO... Still, I think it's unlikely, but one can dream right?
SOE knows what you like... You don't!
And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!
Because SOE gets to keep all the money from EQ2 and makes all its own decisions while with SWG everything must be approved by LA and SOE must share the revenue with LA. Naturally SOE would devote the most time, attention and care to EQ2.
Having said that I tried playing EQ2 and it made me yawn before my initial 30 days were even up. Its just another fantasy based MMO and they are a dime a dozen these days. As far as constantly improving I think thats subjective. If you polish a turd is the end result any better than what you started with?
They merged 6 PvE servers with 6 other PvE servers, then opened up 6 PvP servers. They still have the same number of servers. The reason for the merger was there were always to few people to group with in the huge zones like Antonica, Commonlands, Thundering Steepes, places like that. But you could basically always find groups inside Stormhold, Ruins of Varsoon and Fallen Gate. Since the game has some time on it and their are plenty of level 60-70 people, the lower level zones are somewhat barren compared to the zones in Desert of Flames, and now Kingdom of Sky. So, instead of opening up the pvp servers and further spreading the population out, they decided to merge the pve servers to soften that some when the pvp servers went live, so even with lots of people over on pvp now, you would have a much better chance at finding groups to do things, because essentially each pve server has twice as many people as it did before the merge.
I have no complaints about the move, and neither does my GF who is lightyears ahead of me in the game. The broker hasnt been damaged by the move, just more items to choose from now, and more competition so prices have either droped or stayed the same for the most part. Before the merge it was somewhat hard to find a group for instances and what not at late hours, 12AM+ , but now its not for the most part, that simple. The game isnt loosing players, at least not on a mass scale that some you of claim it to be. Show me hard evidence, like real time server population numbers, or send me a voice clip of smedley saying basically the same thing you all are, "guyz EQ2 sux kk, soe is d00m3d wow 4 lif3 lolol" , then ill try to believe you, maybe.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
SWG is not going to console. If you had 1/2 a brain you would know the huge differences between coding enviroments. Bioware is also NOT making a version of SWG. Both of these facts are known.
This, however, does not change the fact that SWG is a pile of bantha poodo.
As per an official press release from Sony Online Entertainment:
"SOE will be creating a DC Comics game for the PC and next generation gaming platforms"
The press release was on June 17, 2005. I site this as an example for why the NGE came out, as a way to simplify the game for a console port. However, after the reaction to the NGE, I think SOE decided to scrap any console plans for SWG. They probably decided that it would be easier to code a new game for both PC and consoles than it would be to change an existing game.
On November 25, Smedley stated (on the forums) that, "Noone is working on an Xbox 360 or PS3 version of SWG (Or PS2, Xbox or PSP), nor is one on the drawing board. Would that be cool someday? Sure... but it's not on our radar at all."
I do not know anything at all about coding, but if they are looking at DC Online to go to both PCs and consoles, I would assume that the "differences between coding enviroments" are not as huge as you stated.
I Agree actually, I don't beleive SWG is going to console.
I agree it probably won't go to console, but I don't think it has anything to do with coding environments as much as the fact that no console player would ever pay a monthly fee for the garbage that is SWG. Having said that I do think that at some point allowing console access probably was considered, but SWG is just too clunky and unimaginative to appeal to a console crowd.