When all that's left are the people grinding, that's actually generally when an MMO is dead. That population only represents 10-20% of a "live" game, when everyone else leaves, there's not a sufficient community left to support it.
There needs to be a variety of meaningful and more so entertaining gameplay elements to support activities beyond a narrow track in the likes of an MMO, or any game as a service that tries to exist for a prolonged period, because otherwise the community experiences burnout and leaves.
Minecraft, Ark, even Conan Exiles is still running stable user counts. Minecraft gaining relevancy again oddly. You hoisting up a couple examples of games that failed in a genre full of titles that are still chugging along is a false argument from it's core. I have a hard time telling what the point of your posts are any more beyond being just for the sake of banter.
People bash solo content and arena combat in mmorpg saying why play it when you can play better solo RPG game or MOBA...
That analogy is better use here. Why bother? If I want to play a sandbox, I'll just play lego or minecraft. If I want to have sex, I'll just have sex. I dont' want to play a mmorpg with porn in it.
My point is this... I dont' hate anything. Almost every post is a rant on how games should be designed this or that. You sound like I am the one not wanting different play style... And I'm sitting here and thinking... Wait I play all the content an mmorpg have to offer. You only play partial of it?
And the comment about me focusing on non mmorpg content in an mmorpg. I just shrug and say I play everything. I just love RPG games and I can play it eitherway. You are the one seemed narrow minded and want everything a certain way.
It kind of comes down to ever genre has unique things it can do. MMORPG are not really RPG. Yes the basis is there but they don't do RPG better or more convenient than a RPG. MMO are about scale and community. If you could play a fantasy looter shooter and not be able to tell the difference between a MMORPG there is something wrong.
Of course, you can like what you like but when you it comes to development those kind of things make a difference.
My point is people whine and complain about everything.
I don't have a stance on how mmorpg should be designed. And I enjoy all variety.
If some guy come to a sandbox game and tell me it should be more themepark, I'll tell them to get lost. Just as if some guy come to a themepark game and tell me it should be designed differently, I'll tell them to get lost.
Now you are complaining about how man was designed. You will go anywhere and find someone complaining on a message board.
I do have ideas on how they should be designed. I don't think there is one that would make everyone happy. I think this place would be boring if you didn't have people pushing ideas.
Those are things people discuss. I think WoW would be a better game if it sandbox as base to it's themepark. A rich world like WoW with player houses, forts and the like could be cool. Then again I think both styles are incomplete without the other. But without those discussions there isn't much reason to come to these forums.
People can just go play a sandbox game which is my point. Stop trying to turn one type of games into another type of games. Hack many of the people complaining dont' even play wow.
If I go to wow forum and the post is full of people telling developer to turn the game into sandbox game or add sandbox element, I would agree. But there really isn''t any.
When all that's left are the people grinding, that's actually generally when an MMO is dead. That population only represents 10-20% of a "live" game, when everyone else leaves, there's not a sufficient community left to support it.
There needs to be a variety of meaningful and more so entertaining gameplay elements to support activities beyond a narrow track in the likes of an MMO, or any game as a service that tries to exist for a prolonged period, because otherwise the community experiences burnout and leaves.
Minecraft, Ark, even Conan Exiles is still running stable user counts. Minecraft gaining relevancy again oddly. You hoisting up a couple examples of games that failed in a genre full of titles that are still chugging along is a false argument from it's core. I have a hard time telling what the point of your posts are any more beyond being just for the sake of banter.
People bash solo content and arena combat in mmorpg...
That's the most backwards logic iveveeem in a while. You want to say opening the potential for more options is narrow minded?
And there you went about solo content again.
Is every post of yours just a troll?
You do realize wow is the most popular game right? And it pretty much have the lowest common denominator that is designed to the mass public.
Do you go play darkfall and tell the developer to add fast traveler for mass appear? In fact that is wrong right? which is why people complain UO or starwar galaxy shouldn't change their deisgn and stick to what they had.
My point is if many people are complaining the same thing you are complaining on wow forum, I'm sure developer will listen to you. But it really didn''t happen often. Not to mention if the opposite things you want are implemented, you get people arguing the other way.
People been complaining how easy GW2 is and want it to be harder on this forum. But that is not waht people say on GW2 forum. I remember the first expansion people complaint the new area is too hard. That is my point.
And I presume you don't raid, that is why you complain about it. Then you complain about fractal in GW2, which is a dungeon which isn't even a raid... I presume you dont' pvp too since you can easily pvp for your gear... Shrug. Maybe you should play different type of mmorpg.
WoW was*, you're operating on assumptions about the player base that is years-old at this point since they refuse to share numbers any more. There's a reason for several things that have been going on with Blizz and WoW directly recently.
And lo and behold, you also have the hype-train hitting hard for Classic WoW right now, which already flies in the face of the current version and it's "lowest common denominator" without even looking to another title.
you even have to make yet more erroneous claims about my own position on things that aren't even related to or shared here, in an effort to make an argument that is clearly fundamentally devoid of value.
Would you like to backpedal and address the original comment of mine you replied to regarding the association of different components of gameplay and how their relevance(or lack of such) affects the perceived value of them if they are not themselves of direct interest to a particular player's style of play?
No? You'd rather keep making false statements about entirely unrelated topics from entirely different threads?
Maybe you should find something to do with your time instead of troll about.
WoW was*, you're operating on assumptions about the player base that is years-old at this point since they refuse to share numbers any more. There's a reason for several things that have been going on with Blizz and WoW directly recently.
And lo and behold, you also have the hype-train hitting hard for Classic WoW right now, which already flies in the face of the current version and it's "lowest common denominator" without even looking to another title.
you even have to make yet more erroneous claims about my own position on things that aren't even related to or shared here, in an effort to make an argument that is clearly fundamentally devoid of value.
Would you like to backpedal and address the original comment of mine you replied to regarding the association of different components of gameplay and how their relevance(or lack of such) affects the perceived value of them if they are not themselves of direct interest to a particular player's style of play?
No? You'd rather keep making false statements about entirely unrelated topics from entirely different threads?
Maybe you should find something to do with your time instead of troll about.
My point is almost every mmorpg have a forum. If you really have any problem with any game's design, that's where you voice your opinion.
It's pointless saying how mmorpg should generically be made, because everyone have their opinion. That is why we have so many different kind of mmorpg out there.
A side story is I was spamming on vanilla wow forum 15 years ago, among a few others about how getting the best pvp gear is too difficult. You could literally play 12 hours a day everyday and still not get the grand marshal gear. It is so difficult only 1 person on my server have it. On the other hand, people raiding could get gear easily just simply doing short raid every week. The next expansion, Blizzard completely change the design and people could get the best pvp gear just doing 10 minutes arena.
I actually hear the same complaint you have on other forum. But scarcely. That is why I question if your concern is even relevant. So maybe go to wow forum(or what ever game you are playing) and see if more people share your complaint.
Would you like to backpedal and address the original comment of mine you replied to regarding the association of different components of gameplay and how their relevance(or lack of such) affects the perceived value of them if they are not themselves of direct interest to a particular player's style of play?
No? You'd rather keep making false statements about entirely unrelated topics from entirely different threads?
My point is almost every mmorpg have a forum. If you really have any problem with any game's design, that's where you voice your opinion.
It's pointless saying how mmorpg should generically be made, because everyone have their opinion. That is why we have so many different kind of mmorpg out there.
Your point is inconsequential. Are we as a collective all saying any one specific game should be something? Or even within just this thread have we not brought up multiple different titles and had contrasting opinions?
Which already invalidates your second claim. No one has spoken to homogeneity or anything being "generically made" (save for yourself as you have professed a couple times the notion of isolating certain mechanics and features to certain genres instead of exploring different combinations of features).
Everyone has their opinion, yes. So we shouldn't share and discuss them because they, what, don't align with your opinion? Ideas do not grow in a vacuum, and we aren't here to serve as your echo chamber.
And yet again, stop making things up. That example you added in your edit not only remains entirely unrelated to the discussion, but your consequent claim about a "complaint" only exists within your own dialogue. IE, that's YOUR complaint, no one else. Stop projecting for the sake of your irrational raving.
If you're going to continue avoiding making a relevant response, the least you could do is stop making these mindless ones.
Would you like to backpedal and address the original comment of mine you replied to regarding the association of different components of gameplay and how their relevance(or lack of such) affects the perceived value of them if they are not themselves of direct interest to a particular player's style of play?
No? You'd rather keep making false statements about entirely unrelated topics from entirely different threads?
My point is almost every mmorpg have a forum. If you really have any problem with any game's design, that's where you voice your opinion.
It's pointless saying how mmorpg should generically be made, because everyone have their opinion. That is why we have so many different kind of mmorpg out there.
Your point is inconsequential. Are we as a collective all saying any one specific game should be something? Or even within just this thread have we not brought up multiple different titles and had contrasting opinions?
Which already invalidates your second claim. No one has spoken to homogeneity or anything being "generically made" (save for yourself as you have professed a couple times the notion of isolating certain mechanics and features to certain genres instead of exploring different combinations of features).
Everyone has their opinion, yes. So we shouldn't share and discuss them because they, what, don't align with your opinion? Ideas do not grow in a vacuum, and we aren't here to serve as your echo chamber.
And yet again, stop making things up. That example you added in your edit not only remains entirely unrelated to the discussion, but your consequent claim about a "complaint" only exists within your own dialogue. IE, that's YOUR complaint, no one else. Stop projecting for the sake of your irrational raving.
If you're going to continue avoiding making a relevant response, the least you could do is stop making these mindless ones.
ya, whatever. You can try doing something instead of whining to a no body like me.
I actually go to wow forum and complain where a developer can hear me.
Or maybe you already complaint, but not much share your opinion so it is buried in the sea of complaint, and your complaint is really not that relevant.
And yet here you are "whining" about people "whining" (even though most the complaints you have attacked have been ones you made up yourself any ways).
A vapid act of jerking oneself off while chastising the morality of it in the same breath.
The greatest irony to be had, is you explaining the very reason your posts make no sense.
Hopefully blizzard will make a new mmorpg someday. That'll get people rout up about the genre. There isn't much big budget mmorpg in development right now. I think the two biggest now is ash of creation and star citizen.
WoW is rotten, a WoW2 will most likely just have better graphics, but the essence can't be fixed: static, forced faction system is terrible and will alway be.
Add to that Mobile MMO is what making money right now, mainly in east Asia. It would make more sense for Blizzard to invest in a mobile version of WOW. They probably will never make another MMO for PC again.
People can just go play a sandbox game which is my point. Stop trying to turn one type of games into another type of games. Hack many of the people complaining dont' even play wow.
If I go to wow forum and the post is full of people telling developer to turn the game into sandbox game or add sandbox element, I would agree. But there really isn''t any.
It's because you don't NEED to design WoW as a sandbox game. You choose your play style. People who gotten off the roller coaster do what content they want or not, and found their niches.
The point is there's 1001 things people can do in WoW, if they take the initiative.
I had fun a couple weeks ago on the Kwint pet battles and doing all the families (ugh with elementals!!!). That was on par with the Celestials in difficulty. Now they have arcane puzzles. It's that kind of stuff to do, that makes WoW more expansive than a lot of other games out there. If you're bored with X, you can find Y or Z.
Now to find a way to get gear from those activities and not be a bot haven, next.
People can just go play a sandbox game which is my point. Stop trying to turn one type of games into another type of games. Hack many of the people complaining dont' even play wow.
If I go to wow forum and the post is full of people telling developer to turn the game into sandbox game or add sandbox element, I would agree. But there really isn''t any.
It's because you don't NEED to design WoW as a sandbox game. You choose your play style. People who gotten off the roller coaster do what content they want or not, and found their niches.
The point is there's 1001 things people can do in WoW, if they take the initiative.
I had fun a couple weeks ago on the Kwint pet battles and doing all the families (ugh with elementals!!!). That was on par with the Celestials in difficulty. Now they have arcane puzzles. It's that kind of stuff to do, that makes WoW more expansive than a lot of other games out there. If you're bored with X, you can find Y or Z.
Now to find a way to get gear from those activities and not be a bot haven, next.
I do think there is some truth to what you're saying. People that don't play WoW don't give it credit for the variety it actually delivers - especially in this climate.
If you want to be a collector, you can collect mounts, toys, transmogs, etc. WoW, in the end, is a completionists dream IMO. Anyone that likes pokemon style games can scratch an itch in WoW. Anyone that wants to be in a top echelon in PvP can do it and show off their accomplishments through mounts. Anyone that wants to be in a top echelon in PvE can do it and show off their accomplishments through gear/mounts. Anyone that wants to be rich can enjoy the market system which is generally fairly robust with aggressive competition.
Wow generally gets a bad rap on these boards from the posters and is generally supported by the writers. I have personally attacked WoW because I feel like it has recently taken a step back. But comparatively, I think for a themepark MMORPG, it offers a lot that others don't. But other games also offer some things that WoW doesn't that people like a lot as well.
People can just go play a sandbox game which is my point. Stop trying to turn one type of games into another type of games. Hack many of the people complaining dont' even play wow.
If I go to wow forum and the post is full of people telling developer to turn the game into sandbox game or add sandbox element, I would agree. But there really isn''t any.
It's because you don't NEED to design WoW as a sandbox game. You choose your play style. People who gotten off the roller coaster do what content they want or not, and found their niches.
The point is there's 1001 things people can do in WoW, if they take the initiative.
I had fun a couple weeks ago on the Kwint pet battles and doing all the families (ugh with elementals!!!). That was on par with the Celestials in difficulty. Now they have arcane puzzles. It's that kind of stuff to do, that makes WoW more expansive than a lot of other games out there. If you're bored with X, you can find Y or Z.
Now to find a way to get gear from those activities and not be a bot haven, next.
I do think there is some truth to what you're saying. People that don't play WoW don't give it credit for the variety it actually delivers - especially in this climate.
If you want to be a collector, you can collect mounts, toys, transmogs, etc. WoW, in the end, is a completionists dream IMO. Anyone that likes pokemon style games can scratch an itch in WoW. Anyone that wants to be in a top echelon in PvP can do it and show off their accomplishments through mounts. Anyone that wants to be in a top echelon in PvE can do it and show off their accomplishments through gear/mounts. Anyone that wants to be rich can enjoy the market system which is generally fairly robust with aggressive competition.
Wow generally gets a bad rap on these boards from the posters and is generally supported by the writers. I have personally attacked WoW because I feel like it has recently taken a step back. But comparatively, I think for a themepark MMORPG, it offers a lot that others don't. But other games also offer some things that WoW doesn't that people like a lot as well.
All mini games, no life within
Step right up, hit the target and knock the guy in the water... three balls for a dollar !
If they made WoW 2 basically a modern SWG with WoW lore themeparks, raids and the like I think it might be interesting. But another WoW would be a waste of development time over just upgrading and overhauling the current game.
No one can even agree what WOW2 should be. IMO, WOW should stay WOW and Blizzard should just make another MMO off of one of their other IP's like Starcraft and it should be its own thing. Not a WOW clone.
Comments
If I go to wow forum and the post is full of people telling developer to turn the game into sandbox game or add sandbox element, I would agree. But there really isn''t any.
Do you go play darkfall and tell the developer to add fast traveler for mass appear? In fact that is wrong right? which is why people complain UO or starwar galaxy shouldn't change their deisgn and stick to what they had.
My point is if many people are complaining the same thing you are complaining on wow forum, I'm sure developer will listen to you. But it really didn''t happen often. Not to mention if the opposite things you want are implemented, you get people arguing the other way.
People been complaining how easy GW2 is and want it to be harder on this forum. But that is not waht people say on GW2 forum. I remember the first expansion people complaint the new area is too hard. That is my point.
And I presume you don't raid, that is why you complain about it. Then you complain about fractal in GW2, which is a dungeon which isn't even a raid... I presume you dont' pvp too since you can easily pvp for your gear... Shrug. Maybe you should play different type of mmorpg.
And lo and behold, you also have the hype-train hitting hard for Classic WoW right now, which already flies in the face of the current version and it's "lowest common denominator" without even looking to another title.
you even have to make yet more erroneous claims about my own position on things that aren't even related to or shared here, in an effort to make an argument that is clearly fundamentally devoid of value.
Would you like to backpedal and address the original comment of mine you replied to regarding the association of different components of gameplay and how their relevance(or lack of such) affects the perceived value of them if they are not themselves of direct interest to a particular player's style of play?
No? You'd rather keep making false statements about entirely unrelated topics from entirely different threads?
Maybe you should find something to do with your time instead of troll about.
It's pointless saying how mmorpg should generically be made, because everyone have their opinion. That is why we have so many different kind of mmorpg out there.
A side story is I was spamming on vanilla wow forum 15 years ago, among a few others about how getting the best pvp gear is too difficult. You could literally play 12 hours a day everyday and still not get the grand marshal gear. It is so difficult only 1 person on my server have it. On the other hand, people raiding could get gear easily just simply doing short raid every week. The next expansion, Blizzard completely change the design and people could get the best pvp gear just doing 10 minutes arena.
I actually hear the same complaint you have on other forum. But scarcely. That is why I question if your concern is even relevant. So maybe go to wow forum(or what ever game you are playing) and see if more people share your complaint.
Which already invalidates your second claim. No one has spoken to homogeneity or anything being "generically made" (save for yourself as you have professed a couple times the notion of isolating certain mechanics and features to certain genres instead of exploring different combinations of features).
Everyone has their opinion, yes. So we shouldn't share and discuss them because they, what, don't align with your opinion? Ideas do not grow in a vacuum, and we aren't here to serve as your echo chamber.
And yet again, stop making things up. That example you added in your edit not only remains entirely unrelated to the discussion, but your consequent claim about a "complaint" only exists within your own dialogue. IE, that's YOUR complaint, no one else. Stop projecting for the sake of your irrational raving.
If you're going to continue avoiding making a relevant response, the least you could do is stop making these mindless ones.
I actually go to wow forum and complain where a developer can hear me.
Or maybe you already complaint, but not much share your opinion so it is buried in the sea of complaint, and your complaint is really not that relevant.
A vapid act of jerking oneself off while chastising the morality of it in the same breath.
The greatest irony to be had, is you explaining the very reason your posts make no sense.
There's others yet, but only really mentioning the ones with a meaningful budget and aren't just ports of existing titles.
They better focus on Diablo 4 which interests me.
They'll have to call it the Mobile Horn or Tusk or something. Does it get a better signal? Does it boost a 4G up to 5G?
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
If you want to be a collector, you can collect mounts, toys, transmogs, etc. WoW, in the end, is a completionists dream IMO.
Anyone that likes pokemon style games can scratch an itch in WoW.
Anyone that wants to be in a top echelon in PvP can do it and show off their accomplishments through mounts.
Anyone that wants to be in a top echelon in PvE can do it and show off their accomplishments through gear/mounts.
Anyone that wants to be rich can enjoy the market system which is generally fairly robust with aggressive competition.
Wow generally gets a bad rap on these boards from the posters and is generally supported by the writers. I have personally attacked WoW because I feel like it has recently taken a step back. But comparatively, I think for a themepark MMORPG, it offers a lot that others don't. But other games also offer some things that WoW doesn't that people like a lot as well.
Step right up, hit the target and knock the guy in the water... three balls for a dollar !
Wheres the mmorpg in this ?... an auction house ?
Yes of course I know they have different teams working on various games, but they usually focus marketing on one product at a time.