They don’t care about your opinion. They’re just going to copy paste from other games whatever they think will make them the most money. As far as I can tell this game has no soul and therefore debating this is futile. This is being made by Amazon, expecting them to care about your opinion seems silly.
The truth IMHO, PVE players don't need PvP players to play and have a good time. It's about the lore, the journey, farming and building something. PvP players (atleast the unsavory players) need PVE players as that is their adventure, ruining somebody's day, stopping that player from doing what they're doing. The PvP player I'm referring to isn't looking for another PvP player, they are looking for someone that isn't expecting someone to attack them... Usually of the lower level or inexperienced type. PVE players are their content.
The difference here is that New World was a survival PvP game that focused on company territory and resource control. No one who was interested in its original concept needed PvE players to terrorize to enjoy it.
If it were about the lore for PvE players then they would accept the fact that the lore has companies lusting for power, fighting each other, and protecting their territories. That's right, the actual lore of New World implies that it's a dangerous and unlawful place. They will literally have to rewrite it for the lore to make sense going in their new direction. New Direction... that's clever.
"It's dangerous new world. Companies band together to explore under a magical fog that prevents them from doing harm to each other...."
Yeah, the problem was that it was advertised as a MMORPG and you had a pretty generic survival game that failed to distinguish itself from anything else on the market. Even the territory control system and the building system of the game was severely gimped in comparison to other games in the genre and the character development system was also extremely bare-bones. If the game remained the way it was it would be a late-to-the-party arrival at the quick-cash-grab-survival-games table.
The actual lore was that there was an ancient evil lurking around and you had to survive against it but in actuality the "evil" was contained to small isolated camps where you do PvE and in the mean time while you traversed the large open deserted areas you punched trees and rocks for crafting resources, just as you do in any other survival game. There was no sense of danger because fights with the environment could easily be avoided and there was nothing you could do about being killed by other players because they were either well-geared people in newbie areas that overwhelmed everyone by their stats or wandering gangs of players that overwhelmed with their numbers. It is not danger that you feel at those moments - it is annoyance.
PVP crowd is a very vocal minority that has ruined many good games. That minority thinks that griefing noobies is pvp. Sadly some devs fall for it.
In MMORPG's thats true. New World is closer to rust/ark.
New World is an MMO. Not a 60 player server game.
It has the same gameplay loop as rust/ark. Gather/craft/survival/pvp. It's not like darkfall, crowfall, eve, shadowbane etc.
Not only that, there are Rust servers with 200 people on them.. I'm not sure the max Rust/Ark have maxed out at but it's far past 60.. it's pretty massive in a small way
Except that those 200 person Rust servers wipe every week, so if you get rolled by another clan you just wait a few days and everyone is back at zero again. Even the low population servers wipe every 2 weeks. Ark is much the same just with less frequent wipes, but good luck trying to get established on a high population Ark server...if there is even a small area not pillar'd off you'll get wiped by the larger tribes immediately. In those games server hoping is extremely common, when people get all their stuff destroyed they simply find a server that recently wiped and start again.. rinse and repeat every week or so..
Rust and Ark are 2 of my favorite games of the last decade but neither of them offer long term server persistence.
PVP done well , is well worth it. the no PVP people are the problem, flocking to each and every game, injecting their pacifisatic bleats in ever louder voices , secure in their thought bubble they are the majority, forcing game companies to their will, then fleeing to the next game once they have seen what they wrought.
PVP done well , is well worth it. the no PVP people are the problem, flocking to each and every game, injecting their pacifisatic bleats in ever louder voices , secure in their thought bubble they are the majority, forcing game companies to their will, then fleeing to the next game once they have seen what they wrought.
I will add that even in PvE game, if there are other people , there will be PvP. Just the passive aggressive kind that is aggregating. Like kill stealing, mean direct messages, gear score/achievement stratification, let me stand my toon on quest NPCs, or in town so you can see my rare mount or gear or whatever shiny, while I call other people scrubs.
IMO, there is no getting around it. People will compete.
"Hey, I just got that hard to get item I've been working on for weeks" - David
"I got that last month, on three different toons." - Goliath
David is prevented from throwing rock because of rules...
You cannot make both happy, and rules/punishments/dishonor systems meant to keep PvP down inherently make PvP less fun.
I completely agree with you, especially with your last statement.
My buddy and I played quite a lot during the alpha and were part of a large company (basically a guild in this game), and for the most part we've enjoyed the game.
We are both mainly PvP players. We play all sorts of games but PvP is what we enjoy the most.
Even though we enjoyed the game during the alpha, we both agreed that the PK penalties were really really harsh.
And I've given AGS my feedback on the matter whenever an alpha survey was up. There were also many discussions on the matter on the alpha forums.
The way I see it - PK penalties are mostly a crude "solution" when PvP simply doesn't work well with the rest of the game and its design.
And as much as I love PvP, I'd much rather have no PvP at all than have this fake-kind-of-full-loot-PvP with penalties. And both my buddy and I agreed on that.
When we heard the news about PvP being a toggleable thing, we were actually happy. Despite being big fans of PvP.
Sure, I'd much rather have it so there wouldn't be any penalties, and have full loot PvP (think of RUST). But these "in-between" systems just don't work.
All in all, I'm hopeful about the game. Hopefully the game's in a good state. And I'm looking forward to seeing what has changed with the PvE.
You never know, the game might turn out to be a hell lot of fun. And we're both still very hopeful about the 50 vs. 50 wars they talked about.
This change might've been for the best.
Games like Fortnight and Overwatch have clocked 100 Million combined players which dwarfs any MMO ever made, if not every MMO's ever made.
So I cannot fault any MMO developer for wanting some of that sweet PvP Action.
However, what does not have a huge following is trying to Mix Fortnight with Farmville, they are not remotely compatible game modes nor are they compatible player bases.
So why do these MMO companies keep trying to make these PvP/PvE games? See above about that 100 Million PvP players.
This is how I see it, if a game wants to be a PvP Game, they need open and honest that it is a PvP game, that it is build as a PvP game, and not try to pass it off as anything other than a PvP Game, and if they want to add in PvE stuff, great, but that should be PvE stuff for players that are first and foremost PvP players, not for players that are looking for a PvE game.
And that is where a lot of these games go wrong, They don't say this on their site, in fact too many of them downplay the PvP nature of their game, which can appear as deception and no wonder people get upset.
It's one thing with games like GW2, where the PvP is separate from the PvE, and they don't make a huge deal about it, because, well they don't have to, those that want PvP can go PvP, those that want PvE can go PvE and the two don't need to cross.
But in a game like New World, if they were planning to make it so that PvP was not optional in their game, they should have made it clear, that PvP was not going to be optional in their game.
And all their problems in that regard, are in fact their own fault for not being upfront and honest in what their direct intention was.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
But in a game like New World, if they were planning to make it so that PvP was not optional in their game, they should have made it clear, that PvP was not going to be optional in their game.
And all their problems in that regard, are in fact their own fault for not being upfront and honest in what their direct intention was.
Being that Amazon has zero history with game making, I doubt they even knew what the end result would be. Sure they hired veterans to build the game, but I'm sure the heads of Amazon Gaming used the number crunchers to determine viability. That probably overrode anything they had said previously..
I would rather they shift gears now before the game is out rather than after players are in-game and have to adapt..
Either way, atleast it's a B2P that's backed by Amazon rather than the Indiegogo games with their promises that never get met.. That is/was a train wreck that I will never look into..
Why is an advertised pvp centered game having an alpha with a bunch of pvers testing. Of course they dont like pvp bc they dont pvp. Like asking someone to taste test chocolate but they hate the taste of chocolate. Nonsense.
this right here because without a doubt if an mmorpg is advertised as pve focus I won’t even look at.
Can’t you see it these people who don’t want pvp don’t even believe their arguments any more.
I truly believe these are the people that have held killed) the genre back. How many ways can you script a boss or a mob. It’s all been done hell most pve only players are even bored.
EVERYone knows that content (scripts) can’t be made fast enough to please these guys. It’s too expensive and life span is too short.
What kills me New World has about as much content as Anthem now and these dudes act like it’s a good thing.
Why is an advertised pvp centered game having an alpha with a bunch of pvers testing. Of course they dont like pvp bc they dont pvp. Like asking someone to taste test chocolate but they hate the taste of chocolate. Nonsense.
All of the most popular PC games are PvP. They will definitely favor the PvP content over the PvE.
there is a difference between and MMO that is PvP centric and an FPS. We are talking MMO's here. WHICH MMO's are most popular that are only PvP? There aren't any.
Can’t you see it these people who don’t want pvp don’t even believe their arguments any more.
I truly believe these are the people that have held killed) the genre back. How many ways can you script a boss or a mob. It’s all been done hell most pve only players are even bored.
EVERYone knows that content (scripts) can’t be made fast enough to please these guys. It’s too expensive and life span is too short.
What kills me New World has about as much content as Anthem now and these dudes act like it’s a good thing.
Genre killer.
No, lets get something clear, the change was made because of one group of PvP players, the Asshat Gankers.
Denying they exist and are a very real problem, is what has killed all your beloved PvP MMO's.
Amazon has openly admitted this was the problem, and that it IS the problem.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Can’t you see it these people who don’t want pvp don’t even believe their arguments any more.
I truly believe these are the people that have held killed) the genre back. How many ways can you script a boss or a mob. It’s all been done hell most pve only players are even bored.
EVERYone knows that content (scripts) can’t be made fast enough to please these guys. It’s too expensive and life span is too short.
What kills me New World has about as much content as Anthem now and these dudes act like it’s a good thing.
Genre killer.
No, lets get something clear, the change was made because of one group of PvP players, the Asshat Gankers.
Denying they exist and are a very real problem, is what has killed all your beloved PvP MMO's.
Amazon has openly admitted this was the problem, and that it IS the problem.
centering everything you do because of one thing can and will prevent you fromg doing anything
you can work in ways to prevent or negate gankers but most will not do so
Can’t you see it these people who don’t want pvp don’t even believe their arguments any more.
I truly believe these are the people that have held killed) the genre back. How many ways can you script a boss or a mob. It’s all been done hell most pve only players are even bored.
EVERYone knows that content (scripts) can’t be made fast enough to please these guys. It’s too expensive and life span is too short.
What kills me New World has about as much content as Anthem now and these dudes act like it’s a good thing.
Genre killer.
No, lets get something clear, the change was made because of one group of PvP players, the Asshat Gankers.
Denying they exist and are a very real problem, is what has killed all your beloved PvP MMO's.
Amazon has openly admitted this was the problem, and that it IS the problem.
centering everything you do because of one thing can and will prevent you fromg doing anything
you can work in ways to prevent or negate gankers but most will not do so
Welcome to the real world, where it only takes one person to shit in the pool to close it down for everyone else.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Mixing PVE and PVP on the same map is very hard to do and in most cases end up failing. Sure there are a few games where it may have worked it's still an end to one of the groups. Ether the PVE plays leave the game or the PVP players leave.
If new world was going to be PVP based they should leave it PVP full loot, but the fact is it wont make as much money with out the PVE players. So this is why they have made these changes,,,,, PVE players SPEND more money in game then PVP players do.
As a PVE player myself the last thing I want is to be jumped on by some troll that just love to PK peep that are chopping tree. I do not want to be forced to do something I do not want to do.
Can’t you see it these people who don’t want pvp don’t even believe their arguments any more.
I truly believe these are the people that have held killed) the genre back. How many ways can you script a boss or a mob. It’s all been done hell most pve only players are even bored.
EVERYone knows that content (scripts) can’t be made fast enough to please these guys. It’s too expensive and life span is too short.
What kills me New World has about as much content as Anthem now and these dudes act like it’s a good thing.
Genre killer.
No, lets get something clear, the change was made because of one group of PvP players, the Asshat Gankers.
Denying they exist and are a very real problem, is what has killed all your beloved PvP MMO's.
Amazon has openly admitted this was the problem, and that it IS the problem.
centering everything you do because of one thing can and will prevent you fromg doing anything
you can work in ways to prevent or negate gankers but most will not do so
Welcome to the real world, where it only takes one person to shit in the pool to close it down for everyone else.
but by the way of thinking most here are saying about pvp is bad, its the same as since someone will shit in the pool I will not open the pool
With Smedley involved you can bet if he had his way alone this game would already be out for 60-80 bucks.
What i got reading his interview was a hint that they intend to use Twitch streamers to endorse the games,no surprise really ,i expect it.
I like the term "influencer's"is that how they avoid the "sponsored" title by claiming to be an influencer?
What i predict is this game will be very heavily built around ways to make money and be a very average ho hum game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Can’t you see it these people who don’t want pvp don’t even believe their arguments any more.
I truly believe these are the people that have held killed) the genre back. How many ways can you script a boss or a mob. It’s all been done hell most pve only players are even bored.
EVERYone knows that content (scripts) can’t be made fast enough to please these guys. It’s too expensive and life span is too short.
What kills me New World has about as much content as Anthem now and these dudes act like it’s a good thing.
Genre killer.
No, lets get something clear, the change was made because of one group of PvP players, the Asshat Gankers.
Denying they exist and are a very real problem, is what has killed all your beloved PvP MMO's.
Amazon has openly admitted this was the problem, and that it IS the problem.
centering everything you do because of one thing can and will prevent you fromg doing anything
you can work in ways to prevent or negate gankers but most will not do so
Welcome to the real world, where it only takes one person to shit in the pool to close it down for everyone else.
but by the way of thinking most here are saying about pvp is bad, its the same as since someone will shit in the pool I will not open the pool
Amazon already made it clear that the Pool Shitters were the problem here, and they are simply trying to find a way to remove them from the equation while still allowing everyone else to enjoy a solid open wold PvP game of territory control, to be honest, I can't understand why anyone would be upset with that, unless they wanted to shit the pool.
pool shitter, gonna be my go to for these discussions.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I feel like the writer is a kid and trying to troll the PvP reading community into more anger.
It's pretty simple, have different rulesets for players on certain servers and have the best of both worlds.
Don't like PvP, play on a PvE server with no choice to PvP. Want to enjoy the game with PvP, play on a PvP server. Tadaaa
There's nothing about instanced PvP that's really creates immersion. It's a bunch of people queueing to play a little game inside of a game. What creates immersion is world PvP. Someone hiding in the bushes that comes out striking you as you are killing a mob for its pelt. Whabam! Adrenaline pumping fight to the death. Fight of flight kicks in and you're having a blast. It's fun.
The only games I have seen do it right was UO and perhaps Age of Wushu. They had areas where Guards would have your back and smash anyone that tried to PvP you or at least have your back. If you were caught in UO you died and anyone could take the items on your body. If you got caught in Age of Wushu you did jail time, but your team could break you out with a mini-game.
Such interesting ways to make PvP enjoyable and part of the game.... but most players are too stubborn to even try a game that boasts PvP as their main ruleset.
Anyways, I enjoy multiple different styles of play if they do it right. If they don't then I wont stick by the game anyways.
PVP crowd is a very vocal minority that has ruined many good games. That minority thinks that griefing noobies is pvp. Sadly some devs fall for it.
In MMORPG's thats true. New World is closer to rust/ark.
New World is an MMO. Not a 60 player server game.
It has the same gameplay loop as rust/ark. Gather/craft/survival/pvp. It's not like darkfall, crowfall, eve, shadowbane etc.
It was never a survival game. You didn't have to eat or drink. It was a crafting open world PvP MMO. Not anymore. Structured PvP will remain however.
And we don't know what additional content has been added or tweaked since the design change.
Still have the fact that new world is an MMO with thousands on a single server. That alone changes its dynamic compared to those mentioned.
Darkfall , Shadowbane were terrible. Wouldn't want anything to be compared to those anyway. Crowfall remains to be seen. Not much hope on that one either.
Comments
Let's party like it is 1863!
The actual lore was that there was an ancient evil lurking around and you had to survive against it but in actuality the "evil" was contained to small isolated camps where you do PvE and in the mean time while you traversed the large open deserted areas you punched trees and rocks for crafting resources, just as you do in any other survival game. There was no sense of danger because fights with the environment could easily be avoided and there was nothing you could do about being killed by other players because they were either well-geared people in newbie areas that overwhelmed everyone by their stats or wandering gangs of players that overwhelmed with their numbers. It is not danger that you feel at those moments - it is annoyance.
Rust and Ark are 2 of my favorite games of the last decade but neither of them offer long term server persistence.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
IMO, there is no getting around it. People will compete.
"Hey, I just got that hard to get item I've been working on for weeks" - David
"I got that last month, on three different toons." - Goliath
David is prevented from throwing rock because of rules...
I completely agree with you, especially with your last statement.
My buddy and I played quite a lot during the alpha and were part of a large company (basically a guild in this game), and for the most part we've enjoyed the game.
We are both mainly PvP players. We play all sorts of games but PvP is what we enjoy the most.
Even though we enjoyed the game during the alpha, we both agreed that the PK penalties were really really harsh.
And I've given AGS my feedback on the matter whenever an alpha survey was up. There were also many discussions on the matter on the alpha forums.
The way I see it - PK penalties are mostly a crude "solution" when PvP simply doesn't work well with the rest of the game and its design.
And as much as I love PvP, I'd much rather have no PvP at all than have this fake-kind-of-full-loot-PvP with penalties. And both my buddy and I agreed on that.
When we heard the news about PvP being a toggleable thing, we were actually happy. Despite being big fans of PvP.
Sure, I'd much rather have it so there wouldn't be any penalties, and have full loot PvP (think of RUST). But these "in-between" systems just don't work.
All in all, I'm hopeful about the game. Hopefully the game's in a good state. And I'm looking forward to seeing what has changed with the PvE.
You never know, the game might turn out to be a hell lot of fun. And we're both still very hopeful about the 50 vs. 50 wars they talked about.
This change might've been for the best.
Games like Fortnight and Overwatch have clocked 100 Million combined players which dwarfs any MMO ever made, if not every MMO's ever made.
So I cannot fault any MMO developer for wanting some of that sweet PvP Action.
However, what does not have a huge following is trying to Mix Fortnight with Farmville, they are not remotely compatible game modes nor are they compatible player bases.
So why do these MMO companies keep trying to make these PvP/PvE games? See above about that 100 Million PvP players.
This is how I see it, if a game wants to be a PvP Game, they need open and honest that it is a PvP game, that it is build as a PvP game, and not try to pass it off as anything other than a PvP Game, and if they want to add in PvE stuff, great, but that should be PvE stuff for players that are first and foremost PvP players, not for players that are looking for a PvE game.
And that is where a lot of these games go wrong, They don't say this on their site, in fact too many of them downplay the PvP nature of their game, which can appear as deception and no wonder people get upset.
It's one thing with games like GW2, where the PvP is separate from the PvE, and they don't make a huge deal about it, because, well they don't have to, those that want PvP can go PvP, those that want PvE can go PvE and the two don't need to cross.
But in a game like New World, if they were planning to make it so that PvP was not optional in their game, they should have made it clear, that PvP was not going to be optional in their game.
And all their problems in that regard, are in fact their own fault for not being upfront and honest in what their direct intention was.
EVERYone knows that content (scripts) can’t be made fast enough to please these guys. It’s too expensive and life span is too short.
What kills me New World has about as much content as Anthem now and these dudes act like it’s a good thing.
Still not sure, you could be a bot but we shall see.
there is a difference between and MMO that is PvP centric and an FPS. We are talking MMO's here. WHICH MMO's are most popular that are only PvP? There aren't any.
Denying they exist and are a very real problem, is what has killed all your beloved PvP MMO's.
Amazon has openly admitted this was the problem, and that it IS the problem.
If new world was going to be PVP based they should leave it PVP full loot, but the fact is it wont make as much money with out the PVE players. So this is why they have made these changes,,,,, PVE players SPEND more money in game then PVP players do.
As a PVE player myself the last thing I want is to be jumped on by some troll that just love to PK peep that are chopping tree. I do not want to be forced to do something I do not want to do.
but by the way of thinking most here are saying about pvp is bad, its the same as since someone will shit in the pool I will not open the pool
What i got reading his interview was a hint that they intend to use Twitch streamers to endorse the games,no surprise really ,i expect it.
I like the term "influencer's"is that how they avoid the "sponsored" title by claiming to be an influencer?
What i predict is this game will be very heavily built around ways to make money and be a very average ho hum game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
pool shitter, gonna be my go to for these discussions.
It's pretty simple, have different rulesets for players on certain servers and have the best of both worlds.
Don't like PvP, play on a PvE server with no choice to PvP. Want to enjoy the game with PvP, play on a PvP server. Tadaaa
There's nothing about instanced PvP that's really creates immersion. It's a bunch of people queueing to play a little game inside of a game. What creates immersion is world PvP. Someone hiding in the bushes that comes out striking you as you are killing a mob for its pelt. Whabam! Adrenaline pumping fight to the death. Fight of flight kicks in and you're having a blast. It's fun.
The only games I have seen do it right was UO and perhaps Age of Wushu. They had areas where Guards would have your back and smash anyone that tried to PvP you or at least have your back. If you were caught in UO you died and anyone could take the items on your body. If you got caught in Age of Wushu you did jail time, but your team could break you out with a mini-game.
Such interesting ways to make PvP enjoyable and part of the game.... but most players are too stubborn to even try a game that boasts PvP as their main ruleset.
Anyways, I enjoy multiple different styles of play if they do it right. If they don't then I wont stick by the game anyways.
And we don't know what additional content has been added or tweaked since the design change.
Still have the fact that new world is an MMO with thousands on a single server. That alone changes its dynamic compared to those mentioned.
Darkfall , Shadowbane were terrible. Wouldn't want anything to be compared to those anyway. Crowfall remains to be seen. Not much hope on that one either.