Looks like you just entered yourself into a crash course on statistics. Because buddy, you just gave me false statistics. I gave you real ones.
So really, who's the one that needs to read their sources?
Next time find an article that doesn't report on SuperData or SuperWrong as I prefer to call them. They are always wrong for VR and should never be used as a source.
Lol your data had no real numbers. What I posted was accurate, even if the numbers are off by 100k or even 1 million units, my point doesn't change, yours does.
The facts of the matter are simple, you think VR is supposed to be important by 2030, and it won't be. It's been a niche product for a decade and it will continue to be one, for the next 2 decades.
This isn't the mobile phone. This isn't even a console. At best it's treated as a substitute peripheral.
AR wear will be used in much greater quantity by 2030 and they don't even have an affordable consumer set out. If you want to get behind an HMD you should start there.
AR might be in greater quantity by 2030, I probably would even agree with that, but your point against VR has to be used against AR, otherwise you're being a hypocrite.
You're saying that without a doubt, VR will be niche for the next 2 decades based on nothing but the niche status of VR today when AR hasn't even had a consumer headset launch and might still find it in the low millions for a good while because of how hard the tech is to solve?
Yes, VR isn't like the mobile phone. It is like a console (Oculus Quest) but realistically it's more like a PC, a brand new computing platform. AR is more like the mobile phone. Both were big and both did it in under 2 decades.
So this 2 decades timeframe you have is BS, based on linear growth.
Actually, I don't have to use AR and VR interchangeably, it's not biased to say so. I've used hololens, I've used VR sets from PSVR to mobile sets like gear VR. AR is the mobile phone.
You can put on glasses and leave the house, it will show you an arrow on the ground navigating you where you need to go. You can answer a phone call on a bus, and see appointments appear in your eyeline. You can watch a tv show or movie without the need for a TV.
AR will allow you to play a game like you do on a monitor or TV anywhere you go, while also allowing for the creation of content in a real space, similar to be just without removing you from the world.
They are similar in form but different in function. AR will change how people work and interact daily.
VR has been growing slowly, but never as fast as the industry expected. In 2 decades, maybe VR will be more common place, but even conservative estimates have AR outpacing VR by 2025.
It doesn't matter what you've used, the point is you're saying VR can only be niche for 20 more years but AR can manage it in 10 years and you've given no reason. I think AR will grow faster as a market than VR did but you've still got to wait years before we get consumer headsets that start to solve the issues that make it have that explosive growth.
But you'll notice how long it took before the market was out of the low millions. Many years.
VR will also change how people work and interact daily by the way. A lot of remote work will be done in VR as will a lot of training. AR will overlap with this but it won't take much more than 50% of this. Lets not forget VR online communication either which is very different from AR.
I humbly disagree, but that's me. VR is a way to view the game, NOT a mechanic or feature. It doesn't change how a player fights, how a player crafts, how oa player explores, or how a player interacts socially. VR won't save a shitty game.
However, since about 80% of game players today think graphics top all, you're [probably right.
Yet another reason "the future of MMOs" will pass me by...
If VR is only a way to view a game then why does Half Life Alyx play completely differently?
If you like it more as a monitor extension fine, but you're denying the objective truth if you want to say that it literally doesn't fit the definition of being something more than just another way to view a game.
Again, this is objective proof that you are full of shit:
It will change everything about the things you list.
Take social interactions for a second. You'll have player avatars driven by real human movements and it will feel like you are with people in real life, and you'll be able to express yourself much more than a million emotes could hope to achieve.
Yet you think this is impossible? Weird, but I guess some gamers know jack shit about game design.
I don't know. does Half-Life Alyx play differently? (Never played any half-life games.)
No matter your opinion, VR (as it is now) is nothing but a way to view a game. It does nothing to the mechanics of combat, exploration, or crafting. It changes as many mechanics as my monitor does, which is zero.
Man, you know that video you linked? I've never done anything like that with a monitor, nosireebob.
Get a grip. VR is like going from standard definition to high definition and nothing more, no matter how vehement you get.
Had you said instead, "VR will become more prominent in MMORPGs.", I'd heartily agree, but you made a bold, asinine prediction. Take your lumps.
Are you also a flat-earther perchance? Because you use the same logic as they do. Which is to say, full of shit.
Tell me in what games you have been able to handle an enemy like you see in that video? Were you able to grab them and move them around from any point on their body and choose exactly how to bash them in?
You can say what you want about a VR headset, but with VR you typically have motion controls and this does objectively change gaming even more than 2D-3D graphics. This is objective, so don't try to worm your way around it.
By the way you should probably address my social comment since it's pretty important for MMOs you know? Can a monitor make it feel like I am physically with a person, separated by a few centimetres?
There's nothing more important to an MMORPG than the ability to feel like you are an unique character in an emergent and socially engaging game world. VR will always do this best.
VR will improve the social aspects that people find lacking today because people will be much more inclined to seek others out.
VR will improve the one dimensional gameplay style that many MMOs have today since you will have to pay more attention.
VR will improve the escapism/immersion aspect and you'll be able to live basically a second life if you want to.
VR will improve your character/individualism by allowing you to express yourself much more and give you much greater agency in the world.
I expect that in the 2030s, VR will dominant MMOs and the idea of playing such games on a monitor will be laughably archaic and passed off as retrogaming. Obviously by that point all the current issues of VR will be fixed and no I'm not talking about some silly Matrix brain interface because that's fantasy, I'm talking about headsets like out of the movie Ready Player One.
I fully believe the future of MMO's will be VR.
They already have bidirectional walking platforms and the like, couple that with full body tracking, and no doubt, we will be looking at some kind of Ready Player One level of game experience coming up.
Nah, Ready Player One is just a movie and it's totally impossible, at least someone here says.
I agree but we probably won't need the treadmills to walk on. I think locomotion will still be driven the way it is today in most cases but with a much lower chance of sickness due to higher refresh rates, some extra headset calibrations for anti-sickness, and better comfort options.
We are already building "treadmills" for VR, with various mechanics to make them work, this is a direction we are already going in, this is not something that might happen, but something that is already happening, some are still in development, while others are already on the market,
As well as this, which while overall, it failed, it did get made, and it is was put into production, it is simply a matter of someone else making it become a more mainstream reality.
As far as the headsets go, yes, I believe we still need to work on that, and it will happen.
But, we are well on the way for literally virtual worlds to unfold before us, where we will interact with our game environment in a way very similar to how Ready Player One set it up. And in fact that seems to be most believable (while maybe not to that level) future of MMO's and Online World design we are moving into.
This is the sort of shit I'm talking about!
Full suit, full immersion, full virtual reality!
When I get shot in the arm, I want some sort of real-life feedback that moves my arm as if it were shot.
When I get kicked in the chest, I want to fall down in real life because I've felt the impact and it's knocked me off balance.
The treadmills and that exo-suit are the first steps towards achieving that. They're still ridiculously basic and not what I'd call virtual reality, but at least it's a start.
give it another 20 years, and we might achieve proper VR. But, goggles and vibrating motion controllers are not VR, not by a long shot.
I know right. This some seriously cool shit!
I mean, it's all out of my budget right now, but, at this point, I am almost ready to get this set up and just play traditional MMO's with it, 3rd person view and everything, included, just to use this kind of technology.
I already use a standing desk, because if I set too long I feel like I am growing roots out of my ass, but, imagine, just using the platform in a normal MMO, just to handle moving about.. would be soo cool.
But again.. dat price tho.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
It doesn't matter what you've used, the point is you're saying VR can only be niche for 20 more years but AR can manage it in 10 years and you've given no reason. I think AR will grow faster as a market than VR did but you've still got to wait years before we get consumer headsets that start to solve the issues that make it have that explosive growth.
But you'll notice how long it took before the market was out of the low millions. Many years.
VR will also change how people work and interact daily by the way. A lot of remote work will be done in VR as will a lot of training. AR will overlap with this but it won't take much more than 50% of this. Lets not forget VR online communication either which is very different from AR.
You can read all about how we've given plenty of examples of how VR and even AR missed expectations many times over. Sets were slow to grow, now they are in a place where you might find some more consumer use, but it's still shockingly low.
Again, VR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche. AR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche, but the difference is, people can use AR anywhere.
Most people already use AR in ways that they can't use VR. Facial recognition for stickers on phones is a huge AR advancement, games like Pokemon GO dominate the mobile store, but if you think for one minute that teenage girls and pokemon fans won't buy a pair of AR glasses so they can walk around where everyone looks like they have bunny ears, or you can see pokemon in the world you inhabit everyday, you'd be kidding.
The explosion of AR will happen through organic functionality. It's useful outside of single specified uses. You can use it in a grocery store to see something and automatically check a price without taking your phone out, or you can use it in a classroom to explore the solar system by talk and touch without taking your eyes off of the children. (I've actually experienced this first hand).
As a tool, as an experience, VR has its place, but AR will be more widely accepted. We just have to find a way to stop people from wearing their headsets while driving or walking. At least they'll be able to keep their eyes on the street I guess.
I'm not saying that VR won't get there one day, it will have its uses, and I like VR, but saturation wise, and as the "future of MMOs" we are a long ways off. It's just not prudent. I'd rather fight godzilla with all my friends in a park.
There are too many variables with VR and many have not yet come about because VR has failed be a mega hit form of gaming. When/if that happens then we can come back to this and discuss further and it'll be an interesting conversation.
The main issue I can see with OP theory is that in the specific case of MMO unlike shooters or puzzle games is the progression systems which play a crucial part of the games. Sure, if you categorize a exploring game where you walk around a world with thousands of their players an MMO but when you add stuff like pvp, full loot, competitive PVE and leaderboards which is inevitable then I can see actual physical harm coming from emotions rising from players being so immersed and losing just think about it... If people lose their shit playing moba, shooters breaking their mouse, hands hitting their desk keyboards... If injuries become so frequent + severe govt may ban VR entirely.
Not completely objecting to what you said OP but I think it will be far into the future and by then who knows if MMO'S will still be around or if gaming will still be popular.
It doesn't matter what you've used, the point is you're saying VR can only be niche for 20 more years but AR can manage it in 10 years and you've given no reason. I think AR will grow faster as a market than VR did but you've still got to wait years before we get consumer headsets that start to solve the issues that make it have that explosive growth.
But you'll notice how long it took before the market was out of the low millions. Many years.
VR will also change how people work and interact daily by the way. A lot of remote work will be done in VR as will a lot of training. AR will overlap with this but it won't take much more than 50% of this. Lets not forget VR online communication either which is very different from AR.
You can read all about how we've given plenty of examples of how VR and even AR missed expectations many times over. Sets were slow to grow, now they are in a place where you might find some more consumer use, but it's still shockingly low.
Again, VR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche. AR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche, but the difference is, people can use AR anywhere.
Most people already use AR in ways that they can't use VR. Facial recognition for stickers on phones is a huge AR advancement, games like Pokemon GO dominate the mobile store, but if you think for one minute that teenage girls and pokemon fans won't buy a pair of AR glasses so they can walk around where everyone looks like they have bunny ears, or you can see pokemon in the world you inhabit everyday, you'd be kidding.
The explosion of AR will happen through organic functionality. It's useful outside of single specified uses. You can use it in a grocery store to see something and automatically check a price without taking your phone out, or you can use it in a classroom to explore the solar system by talk and touch without taking your eyes off of the children. (I've actually experienced this first hand).
As a tool, as an experience, VR has its place, but AR will be more widely accepted. We just have to find a way to stop people from wearing their headsets while driving or walking. At least they'll be able to keep their eyes on the street I guess.
I'm not saying that VR won't get there one day, it will have its uses, and I like VR, but saturation wise, and as the "future of MMOs" we are a long ways off. It's just not prudent. I'd rather fight godzilla with all my friends in a park.
Are you really this clueless? Your AR bias is showing. You're basically ignoring the fact that people can do serious work on a VR platform and keep waving AR as the solution to everything.
No. AR will never be the sole future of the work that you think it will. It will take a good portion, but VR will share that because only VR works for various work applications. A lot of training must always be done in VR because there are plenty of times where you need to simulate entire environments and locations.
VR will be easier/better for remote work collaboration as everyone can share the same virtual space in unlimited numbers without hassle of where to place other people in your real world space.
VR will be better for work productivity as it's the most customizable, letting you completely shut out distractions or put you into a calming forest to work more calmly.
AR will have things it's better at to because guess what? They can share the load.
Why are you linking really dumb articles? Oculus Quest and 1 billion users shouldn't ever be in the same sentence. Not even the iPhone and 1 billion should be in the same sentence.
I don't care what an ex-Oculus co-founder said after he left the company 4 years ago, especially since the guy is just a suit with no real knowledge of the market expectations of prior tech and VR itself.
Your argument that people can use AR anywhere doesn't mean VR has to be niche for 2 decades. PCs can't be used anywhere, they are location-bound like VR.
You also forget that VR and AR will converge into the same device before this 2 decades of yours is up.
If you'd rather fight godzilla in a park with today's AR vs today's VR, you'd be in a small minority. Most people today fine AR meh and VR great after they try both.
It doesn't matter what you've used, the point is you're saying VR can only be niche for 20 more years but AR can manage it in 10 years and you've given no reason. I think AR will grow faster as a market than VR did but you've still got to wait years before we get consumer headsets that start to solve the issues that make it have that explosive growth.
But you'll notice how long it took before the market was out of the low millions. Many years.
VR will also change how people work and interact daily by the way. A lot of remote work will be done in VR as will a lot of training. AR will overlap with this but it won't take much more than 50% of this. Lets not forget VR online communication either which is very different from AR.
You can read all about how we've given plenty of examples of how VR and even AR missed expectations many times over. Sets were slow to grow, now they are in a place where you might find some more consumer use, but it's still shockingly low.
Again, VR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche. AR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche, but the difference is, people can use AR anywhere.
Most people already use AR in ways that they can't use VR. Facial recognition for stickers on phones is a huge AR advancement, games like Pokemon GO dominate the mobile store, but if you think for one minute that teenage girls and pokemon fans won't buy a pair of AR glasses so they can walk around where everyone looks like they have bunny ears, or you can see pokemon in the world you inhabit everyday, you'd be kidding.
Why are you linking really dumb articles? Oculus Quest and 1 billion users shouldn't ever be in the same sentence. Not even the iPhone and 1 billion should be in the same sentence.
I don't care what an ex-Oculus co-founder said after he left the company 4 years ago, especially since the guy is just a suit with no real knowledge of the market expectations of prior tech and VR itself.
Your argument that people can use AR anywhere doesn't mean VR has to be niche for 2 decades. PCs can't be used anywhere, they are location-bound like VR.
You also forget that VR and AR will converge into the same device before this 2 decades of yours is up.
If you'd rather fight godzilla in a park with today's AR vs today's VR, you'd be in a small minority. Most people today fine AR meh and VR great after they try both.
.... PCs can be used anywhere. Even more importantly, with AR your pc travels with you on your head.
The articles I posted have relevance. My AR bias is showing because AR is useful for me, today. I've had VR experiences, I've had AR experiences. There will be very specific experiences tailored to VR, but that doesn't mean you can't utilize AR for the same experience.
There will be a day where XR glasses will be the new norm for everything. It's seriously amazing, the things I've seen that AR can do. There will be mass appeal, but again we are a good 10 years off. VR has longer, the use cases are much smaller, and less malleable unless they roll them into XR (MR) , predominantly AR sets
People want the Holodeck. Only ticket there is AR, not VR. Picard never waited for everyone to slap a headset and gloves on before sailing the seas.
In what way is AR going to provide a Holodeck that VR can't do?
If you say it's because you can run out in an open field, you can still do that in VR and have it scan the environment to check for any obstacles in the way and view them in VR in real-time.
Or are you saying that the Holodeck itself is actually AR? It's technically both but it depends on how it's used. If it's used to project holograms into the room then it's in an AR mode, but if it's used in the way it's typically depicted then it's VR because it will replace the real environment 100% with a virtual environment - that is VR by definition.
It doesn't matter what you've used, the point is you're saying VR can only be niche for 20 more years but AR can manage it in 10 years and you've given no reason. I think AR will grow faster as a market than VR did but you've still got to wait years before we get consumer headsets that start to solve the issues that make it have that explosive growth.
But you'll notice how long it took before the market was out of the low millions. Many years.
VR will also change how people work and interact daily by the way. A lot of remote work will be done in VR as will a lot of training. AR will overlap with this but it won't take much more than 50% of this. Lets not forget VR online communication either which is very different from AR.
You can read all about how we've given plenty of examples of how VR and even AR missed expectations many times over. Sets were slow to grow, now they are in a place where you might find some more consumer use, but it's still shockingly low.
Again, VR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche. AR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche, but the difference is, people can use AR anywhere.
Most people already use AR in ways that they can't use VR. Facial recognition for stickers on phones is a huge AR advancement, games like Pokemon GO dominate the mobile store, but if you think for one minute that teenage girls and pokemon fans won't buy a pair of AR glasses so they can walk around where everyone looks like they have bunny ears, or you can see pokemon in the world you inhabit everyday, you'd be kidding.
Why are you linking really dumb articles? Oculus Quest and 1 billion users shouldn't ever be in the same sentence. Not even the iPhone and 1 billion should be in the same sentence.
I don't care what an ex-Oculus co-founder said after he left the company 4 years ago, especially since the guy is just a suit with no real knowledge of the market expectations of prior tech and VR itself.
Your argument that people can use AR anywhere doesn't mean VR has to be niche for 2 decades. PCs can't be used anywhere, they are location-bound like VR.
You also forget that VR and AR will converge into the same device before this 2 decades of yours is up.
If you'd rather fight godzilla in a park with today's AR vs today's VR, you'd be in a small minority. Most people today fine AR meh and VR great after they try both.
.... PCs can be used anywhere. Even more importantly, with AR your pc travels with you on your head.
The articles I posted have relevance. My AR bias is showing because AR is useful for me, today. I've had VR experiences, I've had AR experiences. There will be very specific experiences tailored to VR, but that doesn't mean you can't utilize AR for the same experience.
There will be a day where XR glasses will be the new norm for everything. It's seriously amazing, the things I've seen that AR can do. There will be mass appeal, but again we are a good 10 years off. VR has longer, the use cases are much smaller, and less malleable unless they roll them into XR (MR) , predominantly AR sets
PCs in what sense? PCs meaning oh my phone is actually a PC?
Yeah you can bring a laptop with you. You'll be able to do the same thing with VR. That's different as you aren't using a laptop walking the street which is why I called PCs location-bound as you are still using PCs in a single fixed location.
Again you're forgetting that smartphones have more everyday usecases than PCs with our society and yet PCs are still popular as hell. I keep saying VR is like PCs and AR is like smartphones. AR will be bigger but VR can still be freaking huge well before the 2 decades is up.
You can read all about how we've given plenty of examples of how VR and even AR missed expectations many times over. Sets were slow to grow, now they are in a place where you might find some more consumer use, but it's still shockingly low.
Again, VR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche. AR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche, but the difference is, people can use AR anywhere.
Most people already use AR in ways that they can't use VR. Facial recognition for stickers on phones is a huge AR advancement, games like Pokemon GO dominate the mobile store, but if you think for one minute that teenage girls and pokemon fans won't buy a pair of AR glasses so they can walk around where everyone looks like they have bunny ears, or you can see pokemon in the world you inhabit everyday, you'd be kidding.
more importantly, with AR your pc travels with you on your head.
The articles I posted have relevance. My AR bias is showing because AR is useful for me, today. I've had VR experiences, I've had AR experiences. There will be very specific experiences tailored to VR, but that doesn't mean you can't utilize AR for the same experience.
There will be a day where XR glasses will be the new norm for everything. It's seriously amazing, the things I've seen that AR can do. There will be mass appeal, but again we are a good 10 years off. VR has longer, the use cases are much smaller, and less malleable unless they roll them into XR (MR) , predominantly AR sets
PCs in what sense? PCs meaning oh my phone is actually a PC?
Yeah you can bring a laptop with you. You'll be able to do the same thing with VR. That's different as you aren't using a laptop walking the street which is why I called PCs location-bound as you are still using PCs in a single fixed location.
Again you're forgetting that smartphones have more everyday usecases than PCs with our society and yet PCs are still popular as hell. I keep saying VR is like PCs and AR is like smartphones. AR will be bigger but VR can still be freaking huge well before the 2 decades is up.
Phones can be PC's too, but with the power of the cloud, anything can be a PC.
With the "magic" of room scanning and item placement, you could have objects placed and remembered wherever you want it.
For example, you could place a 40 inch screen on one wall, and that screen could be a PC, a TV, an internet window, a picture of a cow, whatever you want. AR opens up the idea that anything can be anywhere, anytime. That's what has me excited.
A PC can be in a fixed location, but a virtual PC is everywhere you are, however you want it to be.
But this is all years off from real use cases. I've only tested it in a fixed environment. It's not ready for consumers, just like seeing godzilla walk around a building, breaking stuff and being attacked, the experience was built for that.
VR can be as huge as you say, but I wouldn't count on it quite yet. I think they've done great jobs at creating VR experiences. I've seen them at museums and arcades, and they can be popular. But those experiences all have movement, and right now, movement is pretty expensive to replicate at home. Costs might one day come down, but if we've learned anything from mobile, people are more fond of accessibility than they are the experience.
They'd rather play minecraft on a mobile phone than see their blocks built in a 3D virtual environment. One day that could change, I just don't think it will be this decade.
"In a recent study by Jakki Bailey of the University of Texas, funded by the nonprofit Sesame Workshop, 55 children between the ages of 4 and 6 played the game Simon Says with the furry blue monster Grover, a popular character. Half of the children played in virtual reality; the other half played with Grover's character on a TV. The games lasted five minutes. The good news, says Bailenson, is that none of the children in the VR experience became dizzy or had unpleasant physical reactions to their short exposure."
End Article quote
The long story short if ya read up on it, not just there, is there's no long studies completed and rare like any other video game or motion sickness causes for that matter.
VR has been called the future of gaming since the 90s with the infra-red visors. I think it will at least be 10 more years before it becomes mainstream like a console or pcs.
Given how our technology is exploding, I would say VR will become a huge force in the Gaming market.. all kinds of gaming.
With Advancment in interface options, like Treadmills, Bodysuits, Controllers, etc, This will hit everything, MMO's, MOBA's, FPS, even single player games like RPGS.
Imagine playing as Batman, moving though the comic book world of Gotham, visiting Arkham Asylum... walking into the Batcave.
It will change gaming as we know it.. we are not there yet. But, I would believe that in 10 years, we could get to that point, at least for games and especially for Online games.
I could see playing games like Second Life, in VR, and being able to just sit around and chat with my friends, and never need to leave the house, not waste gas, or worry about traveling or accidents.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I keep seeing comments that VR will do A, solve B, give us C. I call bullshit. The gameplay, content, and its systems are the most critical, VR can only enhance what is already good, or bad. As of right now, VR is a cash grab, a buzz word so developers can drain more money that could be better spent on gameplay, content, and story. Eventually, headsets will be replaced with something better. Whatever it is, i hope it is close to star trek holodecks and i can see it in my lifetime.
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
18. 77% of people who use VR want more social engagement in it.
(Source: Greenlight Ventures)
77% of the respondents of a consumer survey who own a VR headset say they are interested in social interactions with other people in VR. This interest is also reflected in virtual reality trends showing the popularity of apps that allow users to interact with other users in a virtual setting. Among social VR activities of interest, playing games, watching videos, and video communication rank the highest.
End Article quote
For Moradin's sake we still want social interaction right? Groups? Social interaction?
There's another bonus for those claiming none. Plus if anyone watched the video with the tetris wiz you saw the amazement when he entered VR.
I keep seeing comments that VR will do A, solve B, give us C. I call bullshit. The gameplay, content, and its systems are the most critical, VR can only enhance what is already good, or bad. As of right now, VR is a cash grab, a buzz word so developers can drain more money that could be better spent on gameplay, content, and story. Eventually, headsets will be replaced with something better. Whatever it is, i hope it is close to star trek holodecks and i can see it in my lifetime.
No one that has bought VR thinks it's a cash grab. It's always the tinfoiled hat people that claim it is.
People in the vast majority love VR when they try it, so maybe go try it?
Also it's funny how you're saying it's a waste of resources when it would vastly improve MMOs where that money isn't even being spent in the right places in the first place. Hypocrite.
You can read all about how we've given plenty of examples of how VR and even AR missed expectations many times over. Sets were slow to grow, now they are in a place where you might find some more consumer use, but it's still shockingly low.
Again, VR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche. AR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche, but the difference is, people can use AR anywhere.
Most people already use AR in ways that they can't use VR. Facial recognition for stickers on phones is a huge AR advancement, games like Pokemon GO dominate the mobile store, but if you think for one minute that teenage girls and pokemon fans won't buy a pair of AR glasses so they can walk around where everyone looks like they have bunny ears, or you can see pokemon in the world you inhabit everyday, you'd be kidding.
more importantly, with AR your pc travels with you on your head.
The articles I posted have relevance. My AR bias is showing because AR is useful for me, today. I've had VR experiences, I've had AR experiences. There will be very specific experiences tailored to VR, but that doesn't mean you can't utilize AR for the same experience.
There will be a day where XR glasses will be the new norm for everything. It's seriously amazing, the things I've seen that AR can do. There will be mass appeal, but again we are a good 10 years off. VR has longer, the use cases are much smaller, and less malleable unless they roll them into XR (MR) , predominantly AR sets
PCs in what sense? PCs meaning oh my phone is actually a PC?
Yeah you can bring a laptop with you. You'll be able to do the same thing with VR. That's different as you aren't using a laptop walking the street which is why I called PCs location-bound as you are still using PCs in a single fixed location.
Again you're forgetting that smartphones have more everyday usecases than PCs with our society and yet PCs are still popular as hell. I keep saying VR is like PCs and AR is like smartphones. AR will be bigger but VR can still be freaking huge well before the 2 decades is up.
Phones can be PC's too, but with the power of the cloud, anything can be a PC.
With the "magic" of room scanning and item placement, you could have objects placed and remembered wherever you want it.
For example, you could place a 40 inch screen on one wall, and that screen could be a PC, a TV, an internet window, a picture of a cow, whatever you want. AR opens up the idea that anything can be anywhere, anytime. That's what has me excited.
A PC can be in a fixed location, but a virtual PC is everywhere you are, however you want it to be.
But this is all years off from real use cases. I've only tested it in a fixed environment. It's not ready for consumers, just like seeing godzilla walk around a building, breaking stuff and being attacked, the experience was built for that.
VR can be as huge as you say, but I wouldn't count on it quite yet. I think they've done great jobs at creating VR experiences. I've seen them at museums and arcades, and they can be popular. But those experiences all have movement, and right now, movement is pretty expensive to replicate at home. Costs might one day come down, but if we've learned anything from mobile, people are more fond of accessibility than they are the experience.
They'd rather play minecraft on a mobile phone than see their blocks built in a 3D virtual environment. One day that could change, I just don't think it will be this decade.
The power of the cloud hasn't been utilized that well yet for what you're talking about, so it doesn't really factor in to how things have been so far with platform adoption rates.
I already know AR can do everything you say by the way.
There's nothing more important to an MMORPG than the ability to feel like you are an unique character in an emergent and socially engaging game world. VR will always do this best.
VR will improve the social aspects that people find lacking today because people will be much more inclined to seek others out.
VR will improve the one dimensional gameplay style that many MMOs have today since you will have to pay more attention.
VR will improve the escapism/immersion aspect and you'll be able to live basically a second life if you want to.
VR will improve your character/individualism by allowing you to express yourself much more and give you much greater agency in the world.
I expect that in the 2030s, VR will dominant MMOs and the idea of playing such games on a monitor will be laughably archaic and passed off as retrogaming. Obviously by that point all the current issues of VR will be fixed and no I'm not talking about some silly Matrix brain interface because that's fantasy, I'm talking about headsets like out of the movie Ready Player One.
I fully believe the future of MMO's will be VR.
They already have bidirectional walking platforms and the like, couple that with full body tracking, and no doubt, we will be looking at some kind of Ready Player One level of game experience coming up.
Nah, Ready Player One is just a movie and it's totally impossible, at least someone here says.
I agree but we probably won't need the treadmills to walk on. I think locomotion will still be driven the way it is today in most cases but with a much lower chance of sickness due to higher refresh rates, some extra headset calibrations for anti-sickness, and better comfort options.
We are already building "treadmills" for VR, with various mechanics to make them work, this is a direction we are already going in, this is not something that might happen, but something that is already happening, some are still in development, while others are already on the market,
As well as this, which while overall, it failed, it did get made, and it is was put into production, it is simply a matter of someone else making it become a more mainstream reality.
As far as the headsets go, yes, I believe we still need to work on that, and it will happen.
But, we are well on the way for literally virtual worlds to unfold before us, where we will interact with our game environment in a way very similar to how Ready Player One set it up. And in fact that seems to be most believable (while maybe not to that level) future of MMO's and Online World design we are moving into.
This is the sort of shit I'm talking about!
Full suit, full immersion, full virtual reality!
When I get shot in the arm, I want some sort of real-life feedback that moves my arm as if it were shot.
When I get kicked in the chest, I want to fall down in real life because I've felt the impact and it's knocked me off balance.
The treadmills and that exo-suit are the first steps towards achieving that. They're still ridiculously basic and not what I'd call virtual reality, but at least it's a start.
give it another 20 years, and we might achieve proper VR. But, goggles and vibrating motion controllers are not VR, not by a long shot.
The things is majority players dont want to exert themselves physically while playing video games.
This is why VR like in the Matrix - aka full brain immersion while laying down or sitting without moving a muscle is the future
Direct brain interface is the end game not some shit you strap on your body - its probably gonna be a wireless implant of sorts
I am not going to say that will never happen.. but.. I am going to say, I don't think we even have the preliminary technology to go in that direction.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I tried it in a game shop. I was felt nausea quite quickly and avoided trying it again. Perhaps the technology has improved but I still read about people feeling ill and what is worse they have accidents like bumping into tables after using it because their perception and sense of depth and other senses are screwed for awhile. It does not seem to be something I want to put myself through until I no longer read about these side effects.
Those movies in the cinema make me ill too. I was quite exited to try them but after one experience I think one of the horror flicks I had to take the glasses off. I may be particularly sensitive though.
You are particularly sensitive.
I don't do carnival rides that swing you round and round and up and down as it makes me nauseous for like 2 hours afterward however I do not get car sick or seasick and VR in all the 1 hours bouts I have done with the vivepro, in the local VR rental place, has not once made me feel ill or any of the things you mention here, my son either.
I have seen huge crowds doing VR at the same place and I have yet to see anyone have to stop because they were sick.
Not saying it doesn't happen but to those that it does I thing they have problems with that in the first place.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
VR has been called the future of gaming since the 90s with the infra-red visors. I think it will at least be 10 more years before it becomes mainstream like a console or pcs.
Yes it has.
And to be fair, they put out a lot of things that were too far ahead of their time, were the technology was not ready for what they wanted to do, even of the drive and inspiration was there.
See technology is not liner, no matter what we may thing, and VR has not been any different.
Like Look at Laser Disks, They were first done to make movies, which, while new wave and amazing technology, they failed hard. However the technology was so attractive, it was used again for Music, and there is where it took off, and became a massive success. it was about other applications and in some cases other technology that needed to progress to make things happen.
Same with VR, it was the Future of gaming, just a long way off, because for it to really take off and work, there needed to be other technology that would work with it, not just the VR headset, but also the other aspects.
The Power Glove was a prime example of this as well.
Reality was, when VR first hit, games were still made with 2d graphics, and the 3D they had was very crude, go look at old 3D games in the 90's, they are cringe worthy, in contrast to modern games, where entire worlds, the likes they could never have imagined back in 90's have come to be, and made in 3D settings.
At this point, it is not IF VR will become the interface of choice for Games, but simply a question of how integrate it, as all the parts there. The 3D worlds, the Head Sets, the Platforms, the full body tracking, all of it is now live, working, and at the stage where it is no longer an "Idea" but being refined down for becoming optimized.
Since we know that is can take years, sometimes as much as 8+ years to build an MMO, it's now a matter of when MMO's and other games opt to build to integrate VR into the design UI.
It's now simply stitching it all together.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
VR has been called the future of gaming since the 90s with the infra-red visors. I think it will at least be 10 more years before it becomes mainstream like a console or pcs.
Yes it has.
And to be fair, they put out a lot of things that were too far ahead of their time, were the technology was not ready for what they wanted to do, even of the drive and inspiration was there.
See technology is not liner, no matter what we may thing, and VR has not been any different.
Like Look at Laser Disks, They were first done to make movies, which, while new wave and amazing technology, they failed hard. However the technology was so attractive, it was used again for Music, and there is where it took off, and became a massive success. it was about other applications and in some cases other technology that needed to progress to make things happen.
Same with VR, it was the Future of gaming, just a long way off, because for it to really take off and work, there needed to be other technology that would work with it, not just the VR headset, but also the other aspects.
The Power Glove was a prime example of this as well.
Reality was, when VR first hit, games were still made with 2d graphics, and the 3D they had was very crude, go look at old 3D games in the 90's, they are cringe worthy, in contrast to modern games, where entire worlds, the likes they could never have imagined back in 90's have come to be, and made in 3D settings.
At this point, it is not IF VR will become the interface of choice for Games, but simply a question of how integrate it, as all the parts there. The 3D worlds, the Head Sets, the Platforms, the full body tracking, all of it is now live, working, and at the stage where it is no longer an "Idea" but being refined down for becoming optimized.
Since we know that is can take years, sometimes as much as 8+ years to build an MMO, it's now a matter of when MMO's and other games opt to build to integrate VR into the design UI.
Imo, treadmills are a really dumb idea for VR...I'm waiting on someone to invent a VR chair - configured like a chaise lounge - that will enable me to recline and relax while I'm interacting in virtual environments. It'll have all the controls built right into it...so, instead of running on a omnidirectional treadmill (which is absurd) to get to the merchant to sell my loot, all I'd have to do is just press my toes against the sensors at the foot of the chair and off I go!
I also want a skin-tight black haptic (ninja) suit that will have gloves that have sensor pads on each finger tip which will enable to execute complex movements, such as a spinning mule-kick (that's a thing, right?), by simply pressing my finger tips together in the proper configuration. The suit will also give me tactile feedback about the environment that I'm in, such as when virtual bullets are hitting me! I can't remember which corporation holds the patent on the tech, but it has something to do with exposing nanofibers to particular frequencies that make them very rapidly bunch up in precise locations that make the fabric "thump"...those nanofibers could be woven right into the suit to provide the haptic feedback.
So, yeah...the chair is doable right now; the suit will take a bit longer to produce.
There's nothing more important to an MMORPG than the ability to feel like you are an unique character in an emergent and socially engaging game world. VR will always do this best.
VR will improve the social aspects that people find lacking today because people will be much more inclined to seek others out.
VR will improve the one dimensional gameplay style that many MMOs have today since you will have to pay more attention.
VR will improve the escapism/immersion aspect and you'll be able to live basically a second life if you want to.
VR will improve your character/individualism by allowing you to express yourself much more and give you much greater agency in the world.
I expect that in the 2030s, VR will dominant MMOs and the idea of playing such games on a monitor will be laughably archaic and passed off as retrogaming. Obviously by that point all the current issues of VR will be fixed and no I'm not talking about some silly Matrix brain interface because that's fantasy, I'm talking about headsets like out of the movie Ready Player One.
I fully believe the future of MMO's will be VR.
They already have bidirectional walking platforms and the like, couple that with full body tracking, and no doubt, we will be looking at some kind of Ready Player One level of game experience coming up.
Nah, Ready Player One is just a movie and it's totally impossible, at least someone here says.
I agree but we probably won't need the treadmills to walk on. I think locomotion will still be driven the way it is today in most cases but with a much lower chance of sickness due to higher refresh rates, some extra headset calibrations for anti-sickness, and better comfort options.
While refresh rate and higher resolution would be a tremendous improvement, motion sickness is caused by the eyes telling the brain you're in motion while the body isn't registering the same input.
VR is garbage and 90% of the games look like crap. It would have gone the way of 3D Tv's by now had it not been for the non stop promotion of it to get it out there.
The only cool use of VR goggles I've seen is for Drones.
Hahaha, what a great excuse. You really are clueless aren't you?
Don't worry, you'll be using this garbage technology in the 2030s when you can't find many MMOs that play without it.
New poster mostly defending (shilling) LOL-VR
You seem overly sensitive about anything being said about the subject.
I'll stand by my OP. So many companies have invested in this gimmicky tech they have no choice but to go balls deep in promoting it hard core.
It will eventually find its place in history next to 3dtv's
Comments
PCs had the same low millions installbase as VR for years and years. VR is following the same trajectory, and like I said PCs did it in under 20: http://www.retrocomputing.net/info/siti/total_share.html
But you'll notice how long it took before the market was out of the low millions. Many years.
VR will also change how people work and interact daily by the way. A lot of remote work will be done in VR as will a lot of training. AR will overlap with this but it won't take much more than 50% of this. Lets not forget VR online communication either which is very different from AR.
Also VR has been growing as fast the industry expected. Proof: https://www.roadtovr.com/what-vr-headset-makers-not-analysts-have-actually-said-about-sales-expectations/
Tell me in what games you have been able to handle an enemy like you see in that video? Were you able to grab them and move them around from any point on their body and choose exactly how to bash them in?
You can say what you want about a VR headset, but with VR you typically have motion controls and this does objectively change gaming even more than 2D-3D graphics. This is objective, so don't try to worm your way around it.
I'll give you another example. What games have you played that play anything like this? https://gfycat.com/unlawfulacclaimedhare
By the way you should probably address my social comment since it's pretty important for MMOs you know? Can a monitor make it feel like I am physically with a person, separated by a few centimetres?
I mean, it's all out of my budget right now, but, at this point, I am almost ready to get this set up and just play traditional MMO's with it, 3rd person view and everything, included, just to use this kind of technology.
I already use a standing desk, because if I set too long I feel like I am growing roots out of my ass, but, imagine, just using the platform in a normal MMO, just to handle moving about.. would be soo cool.
But again.. dat price tho.
We've seen all of this time and time again for the past 5 years:
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/464187/microsoft-is-developing-a-mixed-reality-mmo/p1
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/464870/where-are-we-on-vr#latest
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/458952/2016-was-supposed-to-be-all-about-vr-but-augmented-reality-was-the-star/p2
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/458868/vr-device-wars-start-now#latest
You can read all about how we've given plenty of examples of how VR and even AR missed expectations many times over. Sets were slow to grow, now they are in a place where you might find some more consumer use, but it's still shockingly low.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/12/facebook-oculus-will-never-break-through-co-founder-jack-mccauley.html
https://venturebeat.com/2018/09/28/the-deanbeat-will-the-oculus-quest-get-zuckerberg-to-his-1-billion-vr-users/
https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/08/31/why-facebooks-oculus-acquisition-hasnt-paid-off-ye.aspx
Again, VR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche. AR can grow by 500% and still be considered a niche, but the difference is, people can use AR anywhere.
Most people already use AR in ways that they can't use VR. Facial recognition for stickers on phones is a huge AR advancement, games like Pokemon GO dominate the mobile store, but if you think for one minute that teenage girls and pokemon fans won't buy a pair of AR glasses so they can walk around where everyone looks like they have bunny ears, or you can see pokemon in the world you inhabit everyday, you'd be kidding.
The explosion of AR will happen through organic functionality. It's useful outside of single specified uses. You can use it in a grocery store to see something and automatically check a price without taking your phone out, or you can use it in a classroom to explore the solar system by talk and touch without taking your eyes off of the children. (I've actually experienced this first hand).
As a tool, as an experience, VR has its place, but AR will be more widely accepted. We just have to find a way to stop people from wearing their headsets while driving or walking. At least they'll be able to keep their eyes on the street I guess.
I'm not saying that VR won't get there one day, it will have its uses, and I like VR, but saturation wise, and as the "future of MMOs" we are a long ways off. It's just not prudent. I'd rather fight godzilla with all my friends in a park.
https://vrscout.com/news/godzilla-hololens-ar-experience/
The main issue I can see with OP theory is that in the specific case of MMO unlike shooters or puzzle games is the progression systems which play a crucial part of the games. Sure, if you categorize a exploring game where you walk around a world with thousands of their players an MMO but when you add stuff like pvp, full loot, competitive PVE and leaderboards which is inevitable then I can see actual physical harm coming from emotions rising from players being so immersed and losing just think about it... If people lose their shit playing moba, shooters breaking their mouse, hands hitting their desk keyboards... If injuries become so frequent + severe govt may ban VR entirely.
Not completely objecting to what you said OP but I think it will be far into the future and by then who knows if MMO'S will still be around or if gaming will still be popular.
No. AR will never be the sole future of the work that you think it will. It will take a good portion, but VR will share that because only VR works for various work applications. A lot of training must always be done in VR because there are plenty of times where you need to simulate entire environments and locations.
VR will be easier/better for remote work collaboration as everyone can share the same virtual space in unlimited numbers without hassle of where to place other people in your real world space.
VR will be better for work productivity as it's the most customizable, letting you completely shut out distractions or put you into a calming forest to work more calmly.
AR will have things it's better at to because guess what? They can share the load.
Why are you linking really dumb articles? Oculus Quest and 1 billion users shouldn't ever be in the same sentence. Not even the iPhone and 1 billion should be in the same sentence.
I don't care what an ex-Oculus co-founder said after he left the company 4 years ago, especially since the guy is just a suit with no real knowledge of the market expectations of prior tech and VR itself.
Your argument that people can use AR anywhere doesn't mean VR has to be niche for 2 decades. PCs can't be used anywhere, they are location-bound like VR.
You also forget that VR and AR will converge into the same device before this 2 decades of yours is up.
If you'd rather fight godzilla in a park with today's AR vs today's VR, you'd be in a small minority. Most people today fine AR meh and VR great after they try both.
The articles I posted have relevance. My AR bias is showing because AR is useful for me, today. I've had VR experiences, I've had AR experiences. There will be very specific experiences tailored to VR, but that doesn't mean you can't utilize AR for the same experience.
There will be a day where XR glasses will be the new norm for everything. It's seriously amazing, the things I've seen that AR can do. There will be mass appeal, but again we are a good 10 years off. VR has longer, the use cases are much smaller, and less malleable unless they roll them into XR (MR) , predominantly AR sets
If you say it's because you can run out in an open field, you can still do that in VR and have it scan the environment to check for any obstacles in the way and view them in VR in real-time.
Or are you saying that the Holodeck itself is actually AR? It's technically both but it depends on how it's used. If it's used to project holograms into the room then it's in an AR mode, but if it's used in the way it's typically depicted then it's VR because it will replace the real environment 100% with a virtual environment - that is VR by definition.
Yeah you can bring a laptop with you. You'll be able to do the same thing with VR. That's different as you aren't using a laptop walking the street which is why I called PCs location-bound as you are still using PCs in a single fixed location.
Again you're forgetting that smartphones have more everyday usecases than PCs with our society and yet PCs are still popular as hell. I keep saying VR is like PCs and AR is like smartphones. AR will be bigger but VR can still be freaking huge well before the 2 decades is up.
With the "magic" of room scanning and item placement, you could have objects placed and remembered wherever you want it.
For example, you could place a 40 inch screen on one wall, and that screen could be a PC, a TV, an internet window, a picture of a cow, whatever you want. AR opens up the idea that anything can be anywhere, anytime. That's what has me excited.
A PC can be in a fixed location, but a virtual PC is everywhere you are, however you want it to be.
But this is all years off from real use cases. I've only tested it in a fixed environment. It's not ready for consumers, just like seeing godzilla walk around a building, breaking stuff and being attacked, the experience was built for that.
VR can be as huge as you say, but I wouldn't count on it quite yet. I think they've done great jobs at creating VR experiences. I've seen them at museums and arcades, and they can be popular. But those experiences all have movement, and right now, movement is pretty expensive to replicate at home. Costs might one day come down, but if we've learned anything from mobile, people are more fond of accessibility than they are the experience.
They'd rather play minecraft on a mobile phone than see their blocks built in a 3D virtual environment. One day that could change, I just don't think it will be this decade.
The good news, says Bailenson, is that none of the children in the VR experience became dizzy or had unpleasant physical reactions to their short exposure."
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
MurderHerd
With Advancment in interface options, like Treadmills, Bodysuits, Controllers, etc, This will hit everything, MMO's, MOBA's, FPS, even single player games like RPGS.
Imagine playing as Batman, moving though the comic book world of Gotham, visiting Arkham Asylum... walking into the Batcave.
It will change gaming as we know it.. we are not there yet. But, I would believe that in 10 years, we could get to that point, at least for games and especially for Online games.
I could see playing games like Second Life, in VR, and being able to just sit around and chat with my friends, and never need to leave the house, not waste gas, or worry about traveling or accidents.
The gameplay, content, and its systems are the most critical, VR can only enhance what is already good, or bad. As of right now, VR is a cash grab, a buzz word so developers can drain more money that could be better spent on gameplay, content, and story.
Eventually, headsets will be replaced with something better. Whatever it is, i hope it is close to star trek holodecks and i can see it in my lifetime.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
(Source: Greenlight Ventures)
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
People in the vast majority love VR when they try it, so maybe go try it?
Also it's funny how you're saying it's a waste of resources when it would vastly improve MMOs where that money isn't even being spent in the right places in the first place. Hypocrite.
I already know AR can do everything you say by the way.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
And to be fair, they put out a lot of things that were too far ahead of their time, were the technology was not ready for what they wanted to do, even of the drive and inspiration was there.
See technology is not liner, no matter what we may thing, and VR has not been any different.
Like Look at Laser Disks, They were first done to make movies, which, while new wave and amazing technology, they failed hard. However the technology was so attractive, it was used again for Music, and there is where it took off, and became a massive success. it was about other applications and in some cases other technology that needed to progress to make things happen.
Same with VR, it was the Future of gaming, just a long way off, because for it to really take off and work, there needed to be other technology that would work with it, not just the VR headset, but also the other aspects.
The Power Glove was a prime example of this as well.
Reality was, when VR first hit, games were still made with 2d graphics, and the 3D they had was very crude, go look at old 3D games in the 90's, they are cringe worthy, in contrast to modern games, where entire worlds, the likes they could never have imagined back in 90's have come to be, and made in 3D settings.
At this point, it is not IF VR will become the interface of choice for Games, but simply a question of how integrate it, as all the parts there. The 3D worlds, the Head Sets, the Platforms, the full body tracking, all of it is now live, working, and at the stage where it is no longer an "Idea" but being refined down for becoming optimized.
Since we know that is can take years, sometimes as much as 8+ years to build an MMO, it's now a matter of when MMO's and other games opt to build to integrate VR into the design UI.
It's now simply stitching it all together.
Is this looking better, more futuristic sci-fi shit?
New poster mostly defending (shilling) LOL-VR
You seem overly sensitive about anything being said about the subject.
I'll stand by my OP. So many companies have invested in this gimmicky tech they have no choice but to go balls deep in promoting it hard core.
It will eventually find its place in history next to 3dtv's