One thing that made me stop playing SoR is the quest system if you can call it that. And if you are new to the game, and have no friends that have been playing it for a while that can help you getting started, the first thing is to join a guild and get help because otherwise you are stuck in one place with nothing else to do but grind and getting money.
Originally posted by Doompah There is no good loot you can sell on ebay if thats what your wondering. Thats why the population is not heavy. No money to be made from this game. Finally one made just for fun.
Dude... I'm sorry but people don't choose to play a game or not play a game based on what they can friggen sell on Ebay. The game has a low population because sandbox games are slow to grow. They grow over time. Look at EVE it's taken 3 years to break 100k users. For the first 2 it was under 40k players. UO was similar... it grew very slowly to it's peak of 300k users.
Why? Because they are complex.
Ryzom, imo, has it's level system working against it. EVE and UO had pure skill systems whereas Ryzom uses a level system. Yes, it's skill based, but you only get skill points when you *level*. Like DAOC.
Ryzom's shortcomings, imo, are: 1) No player housing (Sandbox needs to have this, even if it's prohibitively difficult or expensive (see EVE player owned Stations, UO housing, SWG Player housing as an example)) 2) No player cities (Again, sandbox MUST have this, or some variation of this, housing at a bare minimum) 3) Crappy tutorial, (Game this complex absolutely needs a solid tutorial) 4) Enforced grouping. (A sandbox must NOT force you to group)
A sandbox is all about freedom but Ryzom takes several key freedoms for sandbox games away. The way the game is designed a solo player is at a severe dissadvantage once you get up above level 50 (note it's got more than 100 friggen levels as well). Because the thing is tied to a level system it's a grind to get to the "end game" rather than just using your skills. The XP system reminds me very much of post-CU SWG but even less so because the skills are locked to your level whereas in SWG your level was based on your skill XP. Slight, but significant, difference.
But the biggest thing ryzom faces is lack of population. Specifically because of the extreme need to group beyond level 50. And that need is even there at levels beyond about 18.
I like Ryzom... just not enough to pay a monthly fee.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Ryzom's shortcomings, imo, are: 1) No player housing (Sandbox needs to have this, even if it's prohibitively difficult or expensive (see EVE player owned Stations, UO housing, SWG Player housing as an example))
Hm, how come I´ve got this neat appartment in yrkanis then?
2) No player cities (Again, sandbox MUST have this, or some variation of this, housing at a bare minimum)
Hm, Players can do what they want in a City, there´s nothing to prevent them from forming, for example a City council, aaprt from other palyers.
3) Crappy tutorial, (Game this complex absolutely needs a solid tutorial)
Agreed, but they´re working on that and its almost due out.
4) Enforced grouping. (A sandbox must NOT force you to group)
Actually I sometimes enjoyed playing with friends in a Sandbox as a kid, felt very bored when no one as around. And in SoR I like it to have people around to chat with. BUT I do many things solo. So there is NO ENFORCED grouping.
<snip>
But the biggest thing ryzom faces is lack of population. Specifically because of the extreme need to group beyond level 50. And that need is even there at levels beyond about 18.
Hm, I´ve got enough lvls over 50 and as said above I realy enjoy soloing and do it regularily. It´s definetely not as easy as in other Games like in Wow, but thats what I actually enjoy about it. No Risk, No Fun!
I like Ryzom... just not enough to pay a monthly fee.
Well, thats sad to hear. Because as you said yourself, it lacks players
CU MaDSaM
Ryzom, we dare to be different. Do you dare to adapt?
Ryzom was a sandbox of good ideas that the devs never had the good sense of following through on.
Pluses:
Great Graphics especially for those who dislike the "cartoony" look of games like WoW.
Open skill and level based system for those who like open-ended character progression instead of limited and linear class based character progression.
A dynamic storyline for roleplayers instead of a static storyline.
Not another D&D/Tolkien based fantasy clone.
Negatives
It started as pretty casual solo or grouping experience, but ditched it in favor of forced grouping and lost a lot of players.
A storyline that doesn't really progress and is constantly being revised so that game world backhistory is being altered one month to the next.
Bad patching habits that result in the game being down, unplayable and bug-riddled after many patches. In example Patch 1 which was the first to devestate this game after a successful launch.
Dumbing down of features, the long promised outpost feature was supposed to be a hallmark feature with guild missions, unique quartered mats, and dynamic large scale mob invasions. Instead it was delivered as another game with ganking (I won't even call it PvP, because the true skill contest is missing from it) land wars. Same thing with the "new land" storyline content and all apparent planned future storyline content.
Undelivered content. Ryzom is good for those who want to level grind over and over and over and over, but you won't find hardly anything in the way of quests/missions, special mobs, storyline content, etc. Once you get those levels you're left strictly with the choice of grinding more or ganking noobs.
Ryzom's idea of "PvP" ganking content isn't to add new content at all, but to take away existing features and content from you if you teleport. Teleports and PvE lands are now PvP lands that you will lose access to hunting grounds if you don't fight other players is grossly mis-matched battles for. Likewise they've removed other old content such as the old craftable magic amps to be replaced with new ones, etc.
The community was dying fast when I was there for patch 1 and their episode 2 content patch. Rapid banning of anyone on the forums for not talking like a fanboi isn't helping either.
Ryzom had good potential and good game mechanics, but they failed a lot of people on delivery. They had a decent launch for the little advertising they had and I hope some future developer will pick up where they fell down on making a good game.
Have you ever considered that it may not be fair to hang around a game's forums just enough to repeatedly gout the skewed perspective of a disgruntled former player? That's what you're doing, Svayvte...I keep seeing you saying the same things, haunting Ryzom on MMORPG.com like a bad smell. Former players of every game seem to have trouble grasping this concept: leave if you don't like it, and don't keep throwing your tarnished two cents in through the window. Sure, you always have a right to express your opinion, but just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Sorry if I've phrased this a bit strongly, it's nothing against you as a person. Just pointing out that what you've been doing may not be right.
----------- In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Actually I'm basically agreeing with the original poster even if its more elaborate. I know it offends the "great community" of people hanging onto the game till its dying gasp chasing everyone away who sometimes disagrees with Nevrax's action as the ban happy forum crew is also fond of doing at Nevrax.
Its nothing against you as a person, but if you want one-sided discussions where people get banned for having a "non-official" viewpoint then you shouldn't leave the Nevrax forums.
Now if you want to have a discussion, perhaps disagree with me and maybe list how Nevrax has changed then please go ahead. But I am one of those numerous and growing number of former Ryzom players who is "disgruntled" because they've chosen the route of chasing away more of their player base than they are capable of attracting.
I shouldn't answer this, but some things are just plain wrong Svayvti. Svayvti's statements in bold
It started as pretty casual solo or grouping experience, but ditched it in favor of forced grouping and lost a lot of players.
This is not completely true, I soloed my character (Ulani) for most of my levels. Mostly because I like the freedom. Granted it takes much longer time, but I can kill mobs giving me max XP. Groups are favoured, but except for hunting bosses it's not forced
Dumbing down of features, the long promised outpost feature was supposed to be a hallmark feature with guild missions, unique quartered mats, and dynamic large scale mob invasions. Instead it was delivered as another game with ganking <em>(I won't even call it PvP, because the true skill contest is missing from it)</em> land wars. Same thing with the "new land" storyline content and all apparent planned future storyline content.
I don't think we've seen the final implementation of Outposts yet, but anyway... While I am not a PVP'er (not being tagged most of the time) I was impressed over how much tactic there is in large scale fights. Discipline and patience plays a big role in a OP takeover.
Undelivered content. Ryzom is good for those who want to level grind over and over and over and over, but you won't find hardly anything in the way of quests/missions, special mobs, storyline content, etc. Once you get those levels you're left strictly with the choice of grinding more or ganking noobs.
You WILL find quests, special mobs, live events, storyline content, etc. You make it sound like we have lots of gankers - which is absolutely not true. First of all, a player that wants to PVP must earn enough reputation from his faction to get a "license to kill". Second, you don't need to be PVP tagged if you don't want it. Some places, like Nexus, has special rules that enforces PVP - but it is hardly for newbies.
Ryzom's idea of "PvP" ganking content isn't to add new content at all, but to take away existing features and content from you if you teleport. Teleports and PvE lands are now PvP lands that you will lose access to hunting grounds if you don't fight other players is grossly mis-matched battles for. Likewise they've removed other old content such as the old craftable magic amps to be replaced with new ones, etc.
The old craftables they removed was destroying the game wasn't they? They had no level requirements and made all low level crafters unnecessary. The teleport is still there - but they make more sense now, you can't travel using enemy faction teleports.
The community was dying fast when I was there for patch 1 and their episode 2 content patch. Rapid banning of anyone on the forums for not talking like a fanboi isn't helping either.
My views on the game is what you'd call a fanboi, I think. Paying for a game you don't like would be stupid. There was some forum banning (about 2-3 persons) last winter. The discussion about PVP or no PVP was going out of hand - in my opinion more people left because of the forums, not the PVP in game. And my game hasn't changed to the worse, I stay out of PVP 99% of my time and the rest of the game is still there.
Ryzom had good potential and good game mechanics, but they failed a lot of people on delivery. They had a decent launch for the little advertising they had and I hope some future developer will pick up where they fell down on making a good game.
We're just about to see the birth of R2 (a scenario builder and DM tool) for players so we will definately witness tons of different aspects of the game.
"It started as pretty casual solo or grouping experience, but ditched it in favor of forced grouping and lost a lot of players."
This is not completely true, I soloed my character (Ulani) for most of my levels. Mostly because I like the freedom. Granted it takes much longer time, but I can kill mobs giving me max XP. Groups are favoured, but except for hunting bosses it's not forced
pre-patch 1 you could solo fairly easily ( a little bit too easily, but not a lot), so they nerfed it. Now once you hit 50 in magic you [i]won't[/i] be able to solo, and it will be plenty difficult before that. Soloing fighting skills is plenty difficult too after 20ish unless you have a guild giving you crafted goods way beyond what equal level players could supply you with. I encourage people to try it themselves and find out though.
"Dumbing down of features, the long promised outpost feature was supposed to be a hallmark feature with guild missions, unique quartered mats, and dynamic large scale mob invasions. Instead it was delivered as another game with ganking <em>(I won't even call it PvP, because the true skill contest is missing from it)</em> land wars. Same thing with the "new land" storyline content and all apparent planned future storyline content."
I don't think we've seen the final implementation of Outposts yet, but anyway... While I am not a PVP'er (not being tagged most of the time) I was impressed over how much tactic there is in large scale fights. Discipline and patience plays a big role in a OP takeover.
So dodging my point entirely... but you didn't argue against it. Furthermore PvP has no level restrictions and newbies get thrown in with level 250 mages... its an ugly massacre. If you want to try a good PvP game I suggest trying WoW or better yet DaoC. Ryzom was supposed to be something more than just another PvP fest but simply failed to try.
I don't mind PvP MMOs, but I simply won't participate in PvP if it doesn't allow me at least a chance to compete and win. One-sided battles aren't fun for me to win or lose, and since Ryzom didn't even allow me the option of opting out of PvP without opting out of at least a year's worth of content I decided to leave.. after probably at least a third of Ryzom's already diminished player base did.
"Undelivered content. Ryzom is good for those who want to level grind over and over and over and over, but you won't find hardly anything in the way of quests/missions, special mobs, storyline content, etc. Once you get those levels you're left strictly with the choice of grinding more or ganking noobs."
You WILL find quests, special mobs, live events, storyline content, etc. You make it sound like we have lots of gankers - which is absolutely not true. First of all, a player that wants to PVP must earn enough reputation from his faction to get a "license to kill". Second, you don't need to be PVP tagged if you don't want it. Some places, like Nexus, has special rules that enforces PVP - but it is hardly for newbies.
There are maybe what? 20 rites working? Don't call the task missions "quests", especially after they nerfed rep gain and the merchant pricing rep reward from them. Special mobs... hmm 4 mercenaries that drop special armor that requires a raid size Ryzom's population can barely support more than a few of? No special scripted encounters, none of the dynamic or invasion encounters advertised all ovre the box and in it. As for the GM event "tea parties", yes there are plenty of those but all the real game storyline events have been PvP. I.E. Episode 2, ALL PvP and all levels thrown together. So whether you're a newbie, a mid level player, or a non-fighting forager you get thrown in and forced to compete (even though its impossible) with high level mages who 1-shot you.
Plus again if you're a non-combat forager then the high level goods are always in PvP zones. Luckily you're not likely to get ganked, but this has more to do with low population than trusting factional crusaders not to gank you... especially when they added 'honor points' for the ganking of newbies.
The old craftables they removed was destroying the game wasn't they? They had no level requirements and made all low level crafters unnecessary. The teleport is still there - but they make more sense now, you can't travel using enemy faction teleports.
You picked the only two changes that made any sense as your examples. Cute how about the fact that you loose your own faction teleports unless you make the so-called choice to defend them when you could freely travel where you wanted in Ryzom. Thats Nevrax, they'd rather take away something you have and deny you access to any new content unless you conform to their new game playstyle (their ridiculous implementation of PvP).
My views on the game is what you'd call a fanboi, I think. Paying for a game you don't like would be stupid. There was some forum banning (about 2-3 persons) last winter. The discussion about PVP or no PVP was going out of hand - in my opinion more people left because of the forums, not the PVP in game. And my game hasn't changed to the worse, I stay out of PVP 99% of my time and the rest of the game is still there.
A lot of people got forum banned (or extended "suspensions" - same thing with a different name), any time you want you can search the new forum GM's posts and see probably a couple on the first page. Let alone how many people get banned when anything controversial happens. Everyone who didn't want PvP got banned by Lawrence for agreeing with Grimjim. Then they banned people talking about bans too much. I personally couldn't even get a response on what they banned me for despite their saying publicly they banned people for private reasons and discussed it with them.
Anyways that was my experience of Ryzom, I always encourage people to try it for themselves and make their own opinion if they're interested. The trial is free so there is no risk other than your time in doing so. The character mechanics of Ryzom's skill system is great and I wish some other MMO would pick it up, just the game itself was lacking in all the promised content on the box. Try it now because with people continually leaving and nobody returning to Ryzom in significant numbers I don't think they'll be around another year no matter how their bankruptancy settles.
maybe you shouldn't troll around forums of a game you dont play anymore.. Its strange how all forums have people who quit a game that they dont like and then hang around slating things as they cant believe others actually do like it.. wierdness
I disagree with a lot of what you say, but really is there any point arguing with you? I have a good perspective i believe as you joined our guild briefly when you 'came back', not going to get personal but despite ppl trying you didnt seem to want to take part in any of the things we were up to, prefering to sit around on your own.. I say this because i dont think you have any right to comment on the player base or community if you dont make an effort to get involved with it. I have an alt who has fighting levels in excess of 150 and has never teamed with anyone, been playing since launch myself and i dont think it is any more difficult to solo now as it was then.. etc etc
It is however beyond my understanding why you come here and try to put people off from even trying the game.. maybe its time for a new hobby?
Ah, Rushin. I was wondering how long before you came in on the personal attacks to show more of the "community" I experienced when i came back to Ryzom. As I recall I didn't want to participate in the ganking of Episode 2 so I got kicked out of your guild based on my different opinion of PvP. I found a great guild afterwards, which unluckily followed the fate of many and lost too many people from the game including me and folded.
Why I hang out here is actually a valid question, even if the personal attacks it is phrased around aren't. I'm here because people not familiar with Ryzom deserve more than just the fanboi response if they want it. Because there are still interesting discussions about Ryzom to be had. Because Ryzom was a great game that went horribly bad like SWG, Horizons, and AO did after launch. Except even Horizons is making a better come back than Ryzom is right now and doing a better job of attracting players to return. I've always found that healthy companies are interested in talking to disgruntled customers to see what it would take for them to return, but Nevrax is no such healthy company and neither is its community as is demonstrated in these forums.
I'm not filled with some overwhelming hate for Ryzom. At release it was definately one of the best games out there, but the development its had in the last year and a half has been entirely downhill unfortunately as the player subscription numbers show. There are as many great things to say about Ryzom as there are bad things, but in my experience and I dare say the experience of most players (judging by player retention rate) the bad far outways the good.
"Now once you hit 50 in magic you won't be able to solo" - Svayvte
So wrong. I solo'd elemental almost entirely from 30ish to 125. I'm 127 in ele still only because it's one of my minor skills that I don't often bother to work.
Anyway, why would a new player care about former players' rantings about "the good old days"? Just because a game used to be different to some extent, and in the opinions of some, better, doesn't mean a new player may not enjoy it. Because it doesn't matter what it used to be, it is what it is now. And what it is now is the game a new player will look at, consider, experience, etc. The "old version" is irrelevant.
I never played SWG pre-CU/NGE. I tried it post-CU/NGE. I enjoyed it. Just because hundreds of former players say SWG is horrible and ruined, won't change my fresh, unadulterated opinion of it.
It's like people telling their friends how bad some movie is...
Maybe I have no idea what you mean about people leaving. Because none of the guild I'm in left because of Episode 2 or PvP. NONE. Not because we're PvP fanatics or something like that, but because we simply didn't participate if we didn't want to. And when we did, we went into the small PvP area(s) with full knowledge and acceptance. Now, after the fame change, we are officially neutral and I can tell you from the perspective of a neutral in a neutral guild, that the teleports we have available to us are perfectly liveable. There is no content denied us, except the cute little Karavan/Kami PvP tag icon next to our names, which most of us don't want anyway.
----------- In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
About 90% of the experience I earned in my main skill from levels 225 to 250 was gained solo fairly easily. It is very possible to solo, you just need to know what mobs to hunt at what levels for what skills. Granted grouping is easier, but then it is supposed to be.
However, soloing is VERY possible to do for any level.
Ah, Rushin. I was wondering how long before you came in on the personal attacks to show more of the "community" I experienced when i came back to Ryzom. As I recall I didn't want to participate in the ganking of Episode 2 so I got kicked out of your guild based on my different opinion of PvP. I found a great guild afterwards, which unluckily followed the fate of many and lost too many people from the game including me and folded.
Why I hang out here is actually a valid question, even if the personal attacks it is phrased around aren't. I'm here because people not familiar with Ryzom deserve more than just the fanboi response if they want it. Because there are still interesting discussions about Ryzom to be had. Because Ryzom was a great game that went horribly bad like SWG, Horizons, and AO did after launch. Except even Horizons is making a better come back than Ryzom is right now and doing a better job of attracting players to return. I've always found that healthy companies are interested in talking to disgruntled customers to see what it would take for them to return, but Nevrax is no such healthy company and neither is its community as is demonstrated in these forums.
I'm not filled with some overwhelming hate for Ryzom. At release it was definately one of the best games out there, but the development its had in the last year and a half has been entirely downhill unfortunately as the player subscription numbers show. There are as many great things to say about Ryzom as there are bad things, but in my experience and I dare say the experience of most players (judging by player retention rate) the bad far outways the good.
I agree to the point that SoR has its up and down sides, just as with any other mmorpg. I dont, however, share the same view on SoRs development as you do. But that is, of course, my subjective opinion compared to your own subjective view; they differ.
Regarding your vague comments on SoRs community... well, relatively those mmorpg:s I've played so far (including EQ, EQ2, AO, EVE, SWG, WoW, Auto Assault etc.), I would say that the community of SoR goes a long way - a very long in fact.
Hmm.. nah, time to log back in and kill some more timmies in FF; anyone noticed how easy and handy they are to solo at lvls about ~190?
Afet reading thru a few threads i thought i'd post something (weee first time i post)
When i first started playing ryzom in the open beta a looooong time ago it was all exiting an fun, i mostly ran around exploring the lands and creatures, made alot of new friends and got killed alot, at release i unfortunatly didn't have the money to continue playing and had to wait untill i moved and finally got some money, after that i've been on and off a few times, occationally getting bored with the seemingles endless grinding and ups and downs in player activity.
So then one day i decided, ok im going to quit for good now to save the money, i didn't make it for long tho, im addicted, i cant put a finger on exactly what, but i love walking among those yubos ^_^ so i got back in, started a new cute little Tyrker, and a new friend showed me the wonders of rp. I finaly figured out the alternative to grinding and leveling, rp, as easy as that, it is a mmoRPg after all. I whent to some events, started actually reading a bit on the Roleplay part of the forum, tried to rp a bit while digging, and i found it quite fun. I think I might be staying in Ryzom for good now, for as long as my putor and Atys lasts. Cos although Ryzom has many a down side and a lack of players, I know plenty other games that have way more downsides, and way worse ones...
I love my dear atys, and many seem to dissagree, and as to all those arguments to why Ryzom is a sucky game, i think i can say something against all of them, but i'm not going to, because i think that a new player that really gives it a chance can find that out for her or himself ^_^ Go in there with a open mind, no hopes no worries, it's easier to try it out for yourself then to listne to this ole bunch ;D *giggles* (no offence meant to anyone)
*Hugs from Shezzy* (please try to ignore all the spellingmistakes i'm just a little norwegian girl )
*Brain down for upgrade, don't try to understand my logic, I don't...*
*waves to Shezomb* Hohoooo! Nice to see you here too
And I agree with you post! Let new players form their own opinions on the games they try. I AM a Fanboy, I admit it. But I also see some not very good things in SoR. They are there, but If we don´t give a Game with the raw potential of SoR a chance we´ll soon and up with all MMOS like McWoWnalds. Lot´s of buyers , lots of Stuff to consume, but no real nutrients included
CU MaDSaM
Ryzom, we dare to be different. Do you dare to adapt?
If you are new and want to get into Saga of Ryzom, you're better off waiting for a new game or start playing WoW.
You'll hit 60 in a blink of an eye instead of just lvling to max in Ryzom, grinding.
Anyone who's been playing Ryzom and WoW knows that WoW have more end-game content than Ryzom and always will, Burning Crusade and content patches.
WoW PvP is far greater than Ryzom even though most of WoW PvP is instanced and not too much world PvP is on-going.
And people in this thread saying that WoW is mostly a game for kids they sure like to flame and mount their high horses.
Compare the amount of well-known guilds from previous MMORPG's, DaoC, UO and so on in WoW compared to Ryzom, they rather have WoW as a pit-stop until their MMORPG of choice arrives.
EDIT:
And as I expected, most people setting their fangs in anyone bashing Ryzom are old players with their characters they've spent alot of time with, of course they're defensive but it's rather naive not to accept the truth about Ryzom, it's dying.
Ryzom is the game for people who'd rather play a game that requires imagination and intelligence. WoW is a game for people who like to be coddled with "content" and fun spoon-fed to them. Different audiences, different successes. Ryzom is not dying, there are more - not less - new players joining, a revolutionary expansion on the way, and a story that is just beginning. Everything in the game, including the PvP, contributes towards players being able to affect the world and story. WoW can't do that.
----------- In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
I agree with a couple of the other posters here, but not in actual content. I think it is a good thing that players who enjoy a game come here and talk about it and a good thing that players who didn't enjoy it, or left for whatever reason also come here and share their experiences so any new person who wishes to be informed about their purchase decision will have all sides of a rational debate. Any person who does not want to have their opinion tainted probably won't be reading message boards.
That said, I'm going to share my experiences; I've since lost my log-in privlidges at SoR forums, though I'm unsure if I was actually banned or this happens when your accounts goes inactive.
I think it is best to start with what is good about the game so anyone who doesn't want read about my critiques can skip to the end or not at all.
-The graphics are pretty, the mobs are new, fun, wierd, and creative. Frankly, it is a breath of fresh air for anyone who has been playing fantasy games for very long.
-The GM support is probably the second best of any game I have ever played. Reaction times are always fast, friendly, and helpful.
-The community. Granted, some of the people posting here in the rabidness might look bad to an outsider, but keep in mind this is from honest to goodness love of the game. Sometimes this love, like all loves, can blind them. I've played a lot of games and been a lot of places and there is simply no other place where players will welcome you in, call you family and do everything in their power to help you as much as possible throughout your days in Atys. This item, simply put, is the games best attribute.
-Ryzom is a great game for people who are roleplayers.
- Ryzom is a great game for people just looking to break into the MMORPG market for the first time.
Bads:
-Ryzom lacks "choice". Ryzom's "choice" is their open ended sandbox style of playing. This is great for roleplayers. Most people are not roleplayers or, like me, not overt roleplayers. This is my biggest problem with Ryzom, so I need to explain this a bit better. What an experienced Ryzom player will always say to this critique is the game does not do any "hand holding" type quests (this actually isn't true, but that is a tangent). Hand holding quests or mob killing is not what I mean. The more you play, the more everything starts to look the same. In your first few weeks and months for some people the game really seems alive. Mobs travel in heards which in turn travel by the season. materials (mats) come and go with the season. NPCs patrol hunting grounds. This is understandable of course and they do accomplish a great job anyway, more so then most games.
More to the point, the leveling system which Ryzom prides itself on is, frankly, a grind. What is marketed to an individualistic style starts looking more and more all the same as you play more. While "paths" aren't explicitly required they are certainly implictly required. This is also fine, to a degree. But, Ryzom has only a few amount of paths and branching paths and once you fill out these required paths, ignore the broken paths, and do the other paths which you consider "fun" you start noticing that most everyone starts falling into the same large mold. This is disapointing. In one way this is a good thing. If you need 4 or 6 people to go and do some project, you don't need to hunt down all sorts of specialists like you do in most games, but the problem is a lack of sense of individualism.
- Quests. The same is true of the quests that are actually in game and not broken. They are all cookie cutter quests and repeat for each race and faction. All the text looks close to the same and they just changed some variable in the database that is pushing 1 and 0's around.
And you "need" to do these quests. Since faction (fame) is required for a lot of things in the game, expecially the more fun things you are required to grind out these fame quests, which are all the same.
-Grind to Grind. The game, as of when I left, lacked purpose. Since hoarding dappers (currency) is worthless, there is nothing to buy, there is very few named mobs to kill which are very difficult to kill, and the game lacks an overall clearly defined goal for most players (not a bad thing for most people) the game quickly devolves into a need to grind so you can grind some more. I remember cranking out a few more fame points thinking about how I would get my PR tele soon and how great that would be. Then I thought about what I would do when I got there and of course the answer was to "grind out mats" so I could grind out my PR digging skill to 250. I couldn't really think up a good reason why I wanted a PR digging skill of 250, or in any other skill for that matter, so I took a week off from the game to see if I missed it. I missed talking to the people and so I quit the game. I meet new and interesting people every day (granted they might not be of the quality found in SoR).
-Lack of stategy in PVP fights. I only actually did PVP two or maybe three or four other times. I was bugged on one occasion and couldn't fight and the other I and everyone else was booted from the PVP fight. Firstly, most players will tell you, I think, that the PVP in Ryzom is horribly broken. The problems are so immense its hard to even know where to start and so I won't. This is about when people are actually in PVP. PVP fights seem to be about "he who has the most levels wins" and "he who has the best jewels wins". There is very little high strategy and tactics. It's just nuke nuke nuke, sap spam and healing. This leads to a lot of ganking, frankly.
-Development. All patching, game balancing and features seen to be put on hold save one: R2. SoR is taking a big gamble on this one and knowing how Venture Capitalists work, this is the next and probably last "product" they are going to launch before pulling the plug if it fails to capture an audiance. They will probably have a big advertising campaign right before launch. Then they will have one or two quarters to see how their metrics match up with their projections for profitability.
For those who played in Beta or read about the features promised all I can say is it is very disapointing looking at the game which is available now and the one which was promised - aging, children, swimming, underwater areas, etc is the short list of things promised. Spires were a feature that was designed to follow on and help balance the now horribly broken outposts, which has been put on hold until the completion of R2 which will not happen until the end of Q2 now. This is itself a bump from what was originally called the first trimester of 06. Many of the original devs, the ones with the vision, including the lead dev have been let go. This could be a good thing, but the reasons stated in their financial reports was not "fresh blood" but "cost cutting". Remember horizons cost cutting?
Really, I think SoR is a dieing game and on life support right now. R2 will fail not because it isn't new and cool, but because the fundementals of the game, the same thing which fails to attract and retain players now, will still be broken and/or unbalanced. I think R2 is an ambitious project for any dev team with a stable cash flow, but for a fledgling company with an uncertain future they are really shooting the moon on this one.
"And you "need" to do these quests. Since faction (fame) is required for a lot of things in the game, expecially the more fun things you are required to grind out these fame quests, which are all the same."
I have to disagree...being neutral is quite feasible, and quite fun (for me at least).
Outpost PvP does have strategy. I've seen it proven multiple times that superior strategy wins.
----------- In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Originally posted by katriell Ryzom is the game for people who'd rather play a game that requires imagination and intelligence. WoW is a game for people who like to be coddled with "content" and fun spoon-fed to them. Different audiences, different successes. Ryzom is not dying, there are more - not less - new players joining, a revolutionary expansion on the way, and a story that is just beginning. Everything in the game, including the PvP, contributes towards players being able to affect the world and story. WoW can't do that.
Bah, nasty Jelathnia is an elitist!
Denigrating WoW players, not that I would play WoW myself but still, attacking players...that is lowly and elitists.
Saga of Ryzom is an elitist game, worser than anything Brad could have done.
Putting dirt on other players tastes never improve your game, it just tell a lot about YOURSELF.
The in-game time I spend with you was great, but you didn't let that nasty aspect loose either. *shrug* Different peoples enjoy different challenges. I don't find SoR as 'better' than WoW in any way, it was harsher, it was harder, it was a dangerous place to be. WoW offer some challenge SoR doesn't, even if overall it is not as hard. Having a class system bring different challenges.
Oh well, I guess you are just missing me, yup, that must be it!
Ymne (It was unfair that the knowledge of who is who was 1 way, mentor).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by IIRL If you are new and want to get into Saga of Ryzom, you're better off waiting for a new game or start playing WoW.
You'll hit 60 in a blink of an eye instead of just lvling to max in Ryzom, grinding.
Anyone who's been playing Ryzom and WoW knows that WoW have more end-game content than Ryzom and always will, Burning Crusade and content patches.
WoW PvP is far greater than Ryzom even though most of WoW PvP is instanced and not too much world PvP is on-going.
And people in this thread saying that WoW is mostly a game for kids they sure like to flame and mount their high horses.
Compare the amount of well-known guilds from previous MMORPG's, DaoC, UO and so on in WoW compared to Ryzom, they rather have WoW as a pit-stop until their MMORPG of choice arrives.
EDIT:
And as I expected, most people setting their fangs in anyone bashing Ryzom are old players with their characters they've spent alot of time with, of course they're defensive but it's rather naive not to accept the truth about Ryzom, it's dying.
All good pinzs for sure.
But what you seem to forget is that out here are some people who aren´t looking for these qualities in an MMORPG. I for myself don´t even care about so called "End Game". Why would I aspire to "hit 60 in a blink"? (or 250 for that matter?) I´d rather "live" my life on Atys, then run around constandly in search for the next kick, LvLup, or Insatnce or whatever. I, and I´m sure many other people do too, enjoy the daily life in Atys. PvP and PvE aren´t the high end of the pole. There´s a reason why it´s called MMO-RPG, y´know. The same reason why WoW devided into PvP and RP Servers. Some people simply don´t like constand PvP. Or Instance running. You can even find such people in WoW, why not? Some of these people, granted not as many as in WoW, have found their way to SoR, so why not let them? And for our high horeses, well it seems from your presumption that SoR is dying that your´s is not that small either. Ain´t it?
We don´t want to flame or diss WoW. I´ve tried it myself. Bought the Game. Played it, even have some very good RL friends playing it who invited me to try, but came to the conclusion that it´s simply not what I want to play. And to stay with the McD Analogy. I absolutely dislike their burgers, but like to eat ChickenMcNuggets. At B-King it´s the other way around. I go to both, but would choose B-King over McD everytime. So why should I "flee" to WoW, if I´m satisfied with what SoR has to offer? I like it there. And so do all those who like WoW. Let them. It´s what they want to play and what they choose to. If you like McD I can only try to make you taste a B-King Burger. And if you don´t like it, so what? Thank God for differnt tastes!
Acridiel
Ryzom, we dare to be different. Do you dare to adapt?
UGH! I've tried to be nice Ano, but you really need to put down the crack pipe! SoR is a wonderful game, but more hardcore than Vanguard? How can you even say that?? The game is not out yet nor have you even tried the beta! Stop talking about what Vanguard is or isn't because you have NO CLUE. And why on earth do you feel the need to press enter 4 times after every sentence??
I play old EQ, all the way back.
Brad says that Vanguard is more casual and less hardcore than old EQ.
Old EQ is more casual and less hardcore than SoR, I experience both!
Vanguard is more casual than old EQ if I can trust Brad, on this I will.
Thereby, Vanguard is more casual and less hardcore than SoR
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye Bah, nasty Jelathnia is an elitist! Denigrating WoW players, not that I would play WoW myself but still, attacking players...that is lowly and elitists.Saga of Ryzom is an elitist game, worser than anything Brad could have done.Putting dirt on other players tastes never improve your game, it just tell a lot about YOURSELF.The in-game time I spend with you was great, but you didn't let that nasty aspect loose either. *shrug* Different peoples enjoy different challenges. I don't find SoR as 'better' than WoW in any way, it was harsher, it was harder, it was a dangerous place to be. WoW offer some challenge SoR doesn't, even if overall it is not as hard. Having a class system bring different challenges.Oh well, I guess you are just missing me, yup, that must be it! Ymne (It was unfair that the knowledge of who is who was 1 way, mentor).
You're right. I'm getting way too hostile and defensive. So I'm going to stop posting on MMORPG.com.
----------- In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Originally posted by Etruscus I agree with a couple of the other posters here, but not in actual content. I think it is a good thing that players who enjoy a game come here and talk about it and a good thing that players who didn't enjoy it, or left for whatever reason also come here and share their experiences so any new person who wishes to be informed about their purchase decision will have all sides of a rational debate. Any person who does not want to have their opinion tainted probably won't be reading message boards. That said, I'm going to share my experiences; I've since lost my log-in privlidges at SoR forums, though I'm unsure if I was actually banned or this happens when your accounts goes inactive. I think it is best to start with what is good about the game so anyone who doesn't want read about my critiques can skip to the end or not at all. .... < snip >
Etruscus, good post. I agree with everything you said.
They need to throw those Kitins invasion events like once every month or other months or so. Those were a blast, and give purpose to the grinding. Also change things up a little for people. I am kinda sad that a lot of new players didn't get to experience them.
If you haven't yet, check out the Tryker Invasion by Atys ghost to get a feel for what it's like.
But that just shows the combat aspect of it. Those week long events also have harvesting and crafting aspect too that ... if just tweaked a little (no more token grind fest!), could be one of the best mmo event type thingee on the market (think RTS/MMO hybrid).
I am not sure why they stopped running those events, maybe someone can clarify it for me. My assumption is that every time their RAID engine is used it leaves a lot of mess that needs to be cleaned up afterwards on the servers, but that's just guess work.
Comments
Why? Because they are complex.
Ryzom, imo, has it's level system working against it. EVE and UO had pure skill systems whereas Ryzom uses a level system. Yes, it's skill based, but you only get skill points when you *level*. Like DAOC.
Ryzom's shortcomings, imo, are:
1) No player housing (Sandbox needs to have this, even if it's prohibitively difficult or expensive (see EVE player owned Stations, UO housing, SWG Player housing as an example))
2) No player cities (Again, sandbox MUST have this, or some variation of this, housing at a bare minimum)
3) Crappy tutorial, (Game this complex absolutely needs a solid tutorial)
4) Enforced grouping. (A sandbox must NOT force you to group)
A sandbox is all about freedom but Ryzom takes several key freedoms for sandbox games away. The way the game is designed a solo player is at a severe dissadvantage once you get up above level 50 (note it's got more than 100 friggen levels as well). Because the thing is tied to a level system it's a grind to get to the "end game" rather than just using your skills. The XP system reminds me very much of post-CU SWG but even less so because the skills are locked to your level whereas in SWG your level was based on your skill XP. Slight, but significant, difference.
But the biggest thing ryzom faces is lack of population. Specifically because of the extreme need to group beyond level 50. And that need is even there at levels beyond about 18.
I like Ryzom... just not enough to pay a monthly fee.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Do you dare to adapt?
Ryzom was a sandbox of good ideas that the devs never had the good sense of following through on.
Pluses:
Great Graphics especially for those who dislike the "cartoony" look of games like WoW.
Open skill and level based system for those who like open-ended character progression instead of limited and linear class based character progression.
A dynamic storyline for roleplayers instead of a static storyline.
Not another D&D/Tolkien based fantasy clone.
Negatives
It started as pretty casual solo or grouping experience, but ditched it in favor of forced grouping and lost a lot of players.
A storyline that doesn't really progress and is constantly being revised so that game world backhistory is being altered one month to the next.
Bad patching habits that result in the game being down, unplayable and bug-riddled after many patches. In example Patch 1 which was the first to devestate this game after a successful launch.
Dumbing down of features, the long promised outpost feature was supposed to be a hallmark feature with guild missions, unique quartered mats, and dynamic large scale mob invasions. Instead it was delivered as another game with ganking (I won't even call it PvP, because the true skill contest is missing from it) land wars. Same thing with the "new land" storyline content and all apparent planned future storyline content.
Undelivered content. Ryzom is good for those who want to level grind over and over and over and over, but you won't find hardly anything in the way of quests/missions, special mobs, storyline content, etc. Once you get those levels you're left strictly with the choice of grinding more or ganking noobs.
Ryzom's idea of "PvP" ganking content isn't to add new content at all, but to take away existing features and content from you if you teleport. Teleports and PvE lands are now PvP lands that you will lose access to hunting grounds if you don't fight other players is grossly mis-matched battles for. Likewise they've removed other old content such as the old craftable magic amps to be replaced with new ones, etc.
The community was dying fast when I was there for patch 1 and their episode 2 content patch. Rapid banning of anyone on the forums for not talking like a fanboi isn't helping either.
Ryzom had good potential and good game mechanics, but they failed a lot of people on delivery. They had a decent launch for the little advertising they had and I hope some future developer will pick up where they fell down on making a good game.
Have you ever considered that it may not be fair to hang around a game's forums just enough to repeatedly gout the skewed perspective of a disgruntled former player? That's what you're doing, Svayvte...I keep seeing you saying the same things, haunting Ryzom on MMORPG.com like a bad smell. Former players of every game seem to have trouble grasping this concept: leave if you don't like it, and don't keep throwing your tarnished two cents in through the window. Sure, you always have a right to express your opinion, but just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Sorry if I've phrased this a bit strongly, it's nothing against you as a person.
Just pointing out that what you've been doing may not be right.
-----------
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Actually I'm basically agreeing with the original poster even if its more elaborate. I know it offends the "great community" of people hanging onto the game till its dying gasp chasing everyone away who sometimes disagrees with Nevrax's action as the ban happy forum crew is also fond of doing at Nevrax.
Its nothing against you as a person, but if you want one-sided discussions where people get banned for having a "non-official" viewpoint then you shouldn't leave the Nevrax forums.
Now if you want to have a discussion, perhaps disagree with me and maybe list how Nevrax has changed then please go ahead. But I am one of those numerous and growing number of former Ryzom players who is "disgruntled" because they've chosen the route of chasing away more of their player base than they are capable of attracting.
I shouldn't answer this, but some things are just plain wrong Svayvti.
Svayvti's statements in bold
It started as pretty casual solo or grouping experience, but ditched it in favor of forced grouping and lost a lot of players.
This is not completely true, I soloed my character (Ulani) for most of my levels. Mostly because I like the freedom. Granted it takes much longer time, but I can kill mobs giving me max XP. Groups are favoured, but except for hunting bosses it's not forced
Dumbing down of features, the long promised outpost feature was supposed to be a hallmark feature with guild missions, unique quartered mats, and dynamic large scale mob invasions. Instead it was delivered as another game with ganking <em>(I won't even call it PvP, because the true skill contest is missing from it)</em> land wars. Same thing with the "new land" storyline content and all apparent planned future storyline content.
I don't think we've seen the final implementation of Outposts yet, but anyway... While I am not a PVP'er (not being tagged most of the time) I was impressed over how much tactic there is in large scale fights. Discipline and patience plays a big role in a OP takeover.
Undelivered content. Ryzom is good for those who want to level grind over and over and over and over, but you won't find hardly anything in the way of quests/missions, special mobs, storyline content, etc. Once you get those levels you're left strictly with the choice of grinding more or ganking noobs.
You WILL find quests, special mobs, live events, storyline content, etc. You make it sound like we have lots of gankers - which is absolutely not true. First of all, a player that wants to PVP must earn enough reputation from his faction to get a "license to kill". Second, you don't need to be PVP tagged if you don't want it. Some places, like Nexus, has special rules that enforces PVP - but it is hardly for newbies.
Ryzom's idea of "PvP" ganking content isn't to add new content at all, but to take away existing features and content from you if you teleport. Teleports and PvE lands are now PvP lands that you will lose access to hunting grounds if you don't fight other players is grossly mis-matched battles for. Likewise they've removed other old content such as the old craftable magic amps to be replaced with new ones, etc.
The old craftables they removed was destroying the game wasn't they? They had no level requirements and made all low level crafters unnecessary. The teleport is still there - but they make more sense now, you can't travel using enemy faction teleports.
The community was dying fast when I was there for patch 1 and their episode 2 content patch. Rapid banning of anyone on the forums for not talking like a fanboi isn't helping either.
My views on the game is what you'd call a fanboi, I think. Paying for a game you don't like would be stupid. There was some forum banning (about 2-3 persons) last winter. The discussion about PVP or no PVP was going out of hand - in my opinion more people left because of the forums, not the PVP in game. And my game hasn't changed to the worse, I stay out of PVP 99% of my time and the rest of the game is still there.
Ryzom had good potential and good game mechanics, but they failed a lot of people on delivery. They had a decent launch for the little advertising they had and I hope some future developer will pick up where they fell down on making a good game.
We're just about to see the birth of R2 (a scenario builder and DM tool) for players so we will definately witness tons of different aspects of the game.
*sighs*
maybe you shouldn't troll around forums of a game you dont play anymore.. Its strange how all forums have people who quit a game that they dont like and then hang around slating things as they cant believe others actually do like it.. wierdness
I disagree with a lot of what you say, but really is there any point arguing with you? I have a good perspective i believe as you joined our guild briefly when you 'came back', not going to get personal but despite ppl trying you didnt seem to want to take part in any of the things we were up to, prefering to sit around on your own.. I say this because i dont think you have any right to comment on the player base or community if you dont make an effort to get involved with it. I have an alt who has fighting levels in excess of 150 and has never teamed with anyone, been playing since launch myself and i dont think it is any more difficult to solo now as it was then.. etc etc
It is however beyond my understanding why you come here and try to put people off from even trying the game.. maybe its time for a new hobby?
Ah, Rushin. I was wondering how long before you came in on the personal attacks to show more of the "community" I experienced when i came back to Ryzom. As I recall I didn't want to participate in the ganking of Episode 2 so I got kicked out of your guild based on my different opinion of PvP. I found a great guild afterwards, which unluckily followed the fate of many and lost too many people from the game including me and folded.
Why I hang out here is actually a valid question, even if the personal attacks it is phrased around aren't. I'm here because people not familiar with Ryzom deserve more than just the fanboi response if they want it. Because there are still interesting discussions about Ryzom to be had. Because Ryzom was a great game that went horribly bad like SWG, Horizons, and AO did after launch. Except even Horizons is making a better come back than Ryzom is right now and doing a better job of attracting players to return. I've always found that healthy companies are interested in talking to disgruntled customers to see what it would take for them to return, but Nevrax is no such healthy company and neither is its community as is demonstrated in these forums.
I'm not filled with some overwhelming hate for Ryzom. At release it was definately one of the best games out there, but the development its had in the last year and a half has been entirely downhill unfortunately as the player subscription numbers show. There are as many great things to say about Ryzom as there are bad things, but in my experience and I dare say the experience of most players (judging by player retention rate) the bad far outways the good.
"Now once you hit 50 in magic you won't be able to solo" - Svayvte
So wrong. I solo'd elemental almost entirely from 30ish to 125. I'm 127 in ele still only because it's one of my minor skills that I don't often bother to work.
Anyway, why would a new player care about former players' rantings about "the good old days"? Just because a game used to be different to some extent, and in the opinions of some, better, doesn't mean a new player may not enjoy it. Because it doesn't matter what it used to be, it is what it is now. And what it is now is the game a new player will look at, consider, experience, etc. The "old version" is irrelevant.
I never played SWG pre-CU/NGE. I tried it post-CU/NGE. I enjoyed it. Just because hundreds of former players say SWG is horrible and ruined, won't change my fresh, unadulterated opinion of it.
It's like people telling their friends how bad some movie is...
Maybe I have no idea what you mean about people leaving. Because none of the guild I'm in left because of Episode 2 or PvP. NONE. Not because we're PvP fanatics or something like that, but because we simply didn't participate if we didn't want to. And when we did, we went into the small PvP area(s) with full knowledge and acceptance. Now, after the fame change, we are officially neutral and I can tell you from the perspective of a neutral in a neutral guild, that the teleports we have available to us are perfectly liveable. There is no content denied us, except the cute little Karavan/Kami PvP tag icon next to our names, which most of us don't want anyway.
-----------
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
However, soloing is VERY possible to do for any level.
-----------------
Kibs
Avatar by Ema
Playing: The Saga of Ryzom since march 2004
Ah, Rushin. I was wondering how long before you came in on the personal attacks to show more of the "community" I experienced when i came back to Ryzom. As I recall I didn't want to participate in the ganking of Episode 2 so I got kicked out of your guild based on my different opinion of PvP. I found a great guild afterwards, which unluckily followed the fate of many and lost too many people from the game including me and folded.
Why I hang out here is actually a valid question, even if the personal attacks it is phrased around aren't. I'm here because people not familiar with Ryzom deserve more than just the fanboi response if they want it. Because there are still interesting discussions about Ryzom to be had. Because Ryzom was a great game that went horribly bad like SWG, Horizons, and AO did after launch. Except even Horizons is making a better come back than Ryzom is right now and doing a better job of attracting players to return. I've always found that healthy companies are interested in talking to disgruntled customers to see what it would take for them to return, but Nevrax is no such healthy company and neither is its community as is demonstrated in these forums.
I'm not filled with some overwhelming hate for Ryzom. At release it was definately one of the best games out there, but the development its had in the last year and a half has been entirely downhill unfortunately as the player subscription numbers show. There are as many great things to say about Ryzom as there are bad things, but in my experience and I dare say the experience of most players (judging by player retention rate) the bad far outways the good.
I agree to the point that SoR has its up and down sides, just as with any other mmorpg. I dont, however, share the same view on SoRs development as you do. But that is, of course, my subjective opinion compared to your own subjective view; they differ.
Regarding your vague comments on SoRs community... well, relatively those mmorpg:s I've played so far (including EQ, EQ2, AO, EVE, SWG, WoW, Auto Assault etc.), I would say that the community of SoR goes a long way - a very long in fact.
Hmm.. nah, time to log back in and kill some more timmies in FF; anyone noticed how easy and handy they are to solo at lvls about ~190?
.............
When in doubt, troll.
Afet reading thru a few threads i thought i'd post something (weee first time i post)
When i first started playing ryzom in the open beta a looooong time ago it was all exiting an fun, i mostly ran around exploring the lands and creatures, made alot of new friends and got killed alot, at release i unfortunatly didn't have the money to continue playing and had to wait untill i moved and finally got some money, after that i've been on and off a few times, occationally getting bored with the seemingles endless grinding and ups and downs in player activity.
So then one day i decided, ok im going to quit for good now to save the money, i didn't make it for long tho, im addicted, i cant put a finger on exactly what, but i love walking among those yubos ^_^ so i got back in, started a new cute little Tyrker, and a new friend showed me the wonders of rp. I finaly figured out the alternative to grinding and leveling, rp, as easy as that, it is a mmoRPg after all. I whent to some events, started actually reading a bit on the Roleplay part of the forum, tried to rp a bit while digging, and i found it quite fun. I think I might be staying in Ryzom for good now, for as long as my putor and Atys lasts. Cos although Ryzom has many a down side and a lack of players, I know plenty other games that have way more downsides, and way worse ones...
I love my dear atys, and many seem to dissagree, and as to all those arguments to why Ryzom is a sucky game, i think i can say something against all of them, but i'm not going to, because i think that a new player that really gives it a chance can find that out for her or himself ^_^ Go in there with a open mind, no hopes no worries, it's easier to try it out for yourself then to listne to this ole bunch ;D *giggles* (no offence meant to anyone)
*Hugs from Shezzy*
(please try to ignore all the spellingmistakes i'm just a little norwegian girl
*Brain down for upgrade, don't try to understand my logic, I don't...*
Nice to see you here too
And I agree with you post! Let new players form their own opinions on the games they try.
I AM a Fanboy, I admit it. But I also see some not very good things in SoR. They are there, but
If we don´t give a Game with the raw potential of SoR a chance we´ll soon and up with all MMOS
like McWoWnalds.
Lot´s of buyers , lots of Stuff to consume, but no real nutrients included
CU
MaDSaM
Do you dare to adapt?
If you are new and want to get into Saga of Ryzom, you're better off waiting for a new game or start playing WoW.
You'll hit 60 in a blink of an eye instead of just lvling to max in Ryzom, grinding.
Anyone who's been playing Ryzom and WoW knows that WoW have more end-game content than Ryzom and always will, Burning Crusade and content patches.
WoW PvP is far greater than Ryzom even though most of WoW PvP is instanced and not too much world PvP is on-going.
And people in this thread saying that WoW is mostly a game for kids they sure like to flame and mount their high horses.
Compare the amount of well-known guilds from previous MMORPG's, DaoC, UO and so on in WoW compared to Ryzom, they rather have WoW as a pit-stop until their MMORPG of choice arrives.
EDIT:
And as I expected, most people setting their fangs in anyone bashing Ryzom are old players with their characters they've spent alot of time with, of course they're defensive but it's rather naive not to accept the truth about Ryzom, it's dying.
I CREATED MYSELF!
"<Claus|Dev> i r pk"
SW:TOR|War40K:DMO|GW2
Ryzom is the game for people who'd rather play a game that requires imagination and intelligence. WoW is a game for people who like to be coddled with "content" and fun spoon-fed to them. Different audiences, different successes. Ryzom is not dying, there are more - not less - new players joining, a revolutionary expansion on the way, and a story that is just beginning. Everything in the game, including the PvP, contributes towards players being able to affect the world and story. WoW can't do that.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
I agree with a couple of the other posters here, but not in actual content. I think it is a good thing that players who enjoy a game come here and talk about it and a good thing that players who didn't enjoy it, or left for whatever reason also come here and share their experiences so any new person who wishes to be informed about their purchase decision will have all sides of a rational debate. Any person who does not want to have their opinion tainted probably won't be reading message boards.
That said, I'm going to share my experiences; I've since lost my log-in privlidges at SoR forums, though I'm unsure if I was actually banned or this happens when your accounts goes inactive.
I think it is best to start with what is good about the game so anyone who doesn't want read about my critiques can skip to the end or not at all.
-The graphics are pretty, the mobs are new, fun, wierd, and creative. Frankly, it is a breath of fresh air for anyone who has been playing fantasy games for very long.
-The GM support is probably the second best of any game I have ever played. Reaction times are always fast, friendly, and helpful.
-The community. Granted, some of the people posting here in the rabidness might look bad to an outsider, but keep in mind this is from honest to goodness love of the game. Sometimes this love, like all loves, can blind them. I've played a lot of games and been a lot of places and there is simply no other place where players will welcome you in, call you family and do everything in their power to help you as much as possible throughout your days in Atys. This item, simply put, is the games best attribute.
-Ryzom is a great game for people who are roleplayers.
- Ryzom is a great game for people just looking to break into the MMORPG market for the first time.
Bads:
-Ryzom lacks "choice". Ryzom's "choice" is their open ended sandbox style of playing. This is great for roleplayers. Most people are not roleplayers or, like me, not overt roleplayers. This is my biggest problem with Ryzom, so I need to explain this a bit better. What an experienced Ryzom player will always say to this critique is the game does not do any "hand holding" type quests (this actually isn't true, but that is a tangent). Hand holding quests or mob killing is not what I mean. The more you play, the more everything starts to look the same. In your first few weeks and months for some people the game really seems alive. Mobs travel in heards which in turn travel by the season. materials (mats) come and go with the season. NPCs patrol hunting grounds. This is understandable of course and they do accomplish a great job anyway, more so then most games.
More to the point, the leveling system which Ryzom prides itself on is, frankly, a grind. What is marketed to an individualistic style starts looking more and more all the same as you play more. While "paths" aren't explicitly required they are certainly implictly required. This is also fine, to a degree. But, Ryzom has only a few amount of paths and branching paths and once you fill out these required paths, ignore the broken paths, and do the other paths which you consider "fun" you start noticing that most everyone starts falling into the same large mold. This is disapointing. In one way this is a good thing. If you need 4 or 6 people to go and do some project, you don't need to hunt down all sorts of specialists like you do in most games, but the problem is a lack of sense of individualism.
- Quests. The same is true of the quests that are actually in game and not broken. They are all cookie cutter quests and repeat for each race and faction. All the text looks close to the same and they just changed some variable in the database that is pushing 1 and 0's around.
And you "need" to do these quests. Since faction (fame) is required for a lot of things in the game, expecially the more fun things you are required to grind out these fame quests, which are all the same.
-Grind to Grind. The game, as of when I left, lacked purpose. Since hoarding dappers (currency) is worthless, there is nothing to buy, there is very few named mobs to kill which are very difficult to kill, and the game lacks an overall clearly defined goal for most players (not a bad thing for most people) the game quickly devolves into a need to grind so you can grind some more. I remember cranking out a few more fame points thinking about how I would get my PR tele soon and how great that would be. Then I thought about what I would do when I got there and of course the answer was to "grind out mats" so I could grind out my PR digging skill to 250. I couldn't really think up a good reason why I wanted a PR digging skill of 250, or in any other skill for that matter, so I took a week off from the game to see if I missed it. I missed talking to the people and so I quit the game. I meet new and interesting people every day (granted they might not be of the quality found in SoR).
-Lack of stategy in PVP fights. I only actually did PVP two or maybe three or four other times. I was bugged on one occasion and couldn't fight and the other I and everyone else was booted from the PVP fight. Firstly, most players will tell you, I think, that the PVP in Ryzom is horribly broken. The problems are so immense its hard to even know where to start and so I won't. This is about when people are actually in PVP. PVP fights seem to be about "he who has the most levels wins" and "he who has the best jewels wins". There is very little high strategy and tactics. It's just nuke nuke nuke, sap spam and healing. This leads to a lot of ganking, frankly.
-Development. All patching, game balancing and features seen to be put on hold save one: R2. SoR is taking a big gamble on this one and knowing how Venture Capitalists work, this is the next and probably last "product" they are going to launch before pulling the plug if it fails to capture an audiance. They will probably have a big advertising campaign right before launch. Then they will have one or two quarters to see how their metrics match up with their projections for profitability.
For those who played in Beta or read about the features promised all I can say is it is very disapointing looking at the game which is available now and the one which was promised - aging, children, swimming, underwater areas, etc is the short list of things promised. Spires were a feature that was designed to follow on and help balance the now horribly broken outposts, which has been put on hold until the completion of R2 which will not happen until the end of Q2 now. This is itself a bump from what was originally called the first trimester of 06. Many of the original devs, the ones with the vision, including the lead dev have been let go. This could be a good thing, but the reasons stated in their financial reports was not "fresh blood" but "cost cutting". Remember horizons cost cutting?
Really, I think SoR is a dieing game and on life support right now. R2 will fail not because it isn't new and cool, but because the fundementals of the game, the same thing which fails to attract and retain players now, will still be broken and/or unbalanced. I think R2 is an ambitious project for any dev team with a stable cash flow, but for a fledgling company with an uncertain future they are really shooting the moon on this one.
"And you "need" to do these quests. Since faction (fame) is required for a lot of things in the game, expecially the more fun things you are required to grind out these fame quests, which are all the same."
I have to disagree...being neutral is quite feasible, and quite fun (for me at least).
Outpost PvP does have strategy. I've seen it proven multiple times that superior strategy wins.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Bah, nasty Jelathnia is an elitist!
Denigrating WoW players, not that I would play WoW myself but still, attacking players...that is lowly and elitists.
Saga of Ryzom is an elitist game, worser than anything Brad could have done.
Putting dirt on other players tastes never improve your game, it just tell a lot about YOURSELF.
The in-game time I spend with you was great, but you didn't let that nasty aspect loose either. *shrug* Different peoples enjoy different challenges. I don't find SoR as 'better' than WoW in any way, it was harsher, it was harder, it was a dangerous place to be. WoW offer some challenge SoR doesn't, even if overall it is not as hard. Having a class system bring different challenges.
Oh well, I guess you are just missing me, yup, that must be it!
Ymne (It was unfair that the knowledge of who is who was 1 way, mentor).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
But what you seem to forget is that out here are some people who aren´t looking for these qualities in an MMORPG. I for myself don´t even care about so called "End Game".
Why would I aspire to "hit 60 in a blink"? (or 250 for that matter?)
I´d rather "live" my life on Atys, then run around constandly in search for the next kick, LvLup, or Insatnce or whatever. I, and I´m sure many other people do too, enjoy the daily life in Atys. PvP and PvE aren´t the high end of the pole. There´s a reason why it´s called MMO-RPG, y´know.
The same reason why WoW devided into PvP and RP Servers. Some people simply don´t like constand PvP.
Or Instance running. You can even find such people in WoW, why not?
Some of these people, granted not as many as in WoW, have found their way to SoR, so why not let them?
And for our high horeses, well it seems from your presumption that SoR is dying that your´s is not that small either.
We don´t want to flame or diss WoW. I´ve tried it myself. Bought the Game. Played it, even have some very good RL friends playing it who invited me to try, but came to the conclusion that it´s simply not what I want to play. And to stay with the McD Analogy. I absolutely dislike their burgers, but like to eat ChickenMcNuggets. At B-King it´s the other way around. I go to both, but would choose B-King over McD everytime.
So why should I "flee" to WoW, if I´m satisfied with what SoR has to offer?
I like it there.
And so do all those who like WoW. Let them. It´s what they want to play and what they choose to.
If you like McD I can only try to make you taste a B-King Burger. And if you don´t like it, so what?
Thank God for differnt tastes!
Acridiel
Do you dare to adapt?
I play old EQ, all the way back.
Brad says that Vanguard is more casual and less hardcore than old EQ.
Old EQ is more casual and less hardcore than SoR, I experience both!
Vanguard is more casual than old EQ if I can trust Brad, on this I will.
Thereby, Vanguard is more casual and less hardcore than SoR
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You're right. I'm getting way too hostile and defensive. So I'm going to stop posting on MMORPG.com.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on August 13, 2008.
Etruscus, good post. I agree with everything you said.
They need to throw those Kitins invasion events like once every month or other months or so. Those were a blast, and give purpose to the grinding. Also change things up a little for people. I am kinda sad that a lot of new players didn't get to experience them.
If you haven't yet, check out the Tryker Invasion by Atys ghost to get a feel for what it's like.
http://www.ryzom-movies.de/index.php?option=com_weblinks&catid=33&Itemid=54
(ctrl f for Tryker Invasion)
But that just shows the combat aspect of it. Those week long events also have harvesting and crafting aspect too that ... if just tweaked a little (no more token grind fest!), could be one of the best mmo event type thingee on the market (think RTS/MMO hybrid).
I am not sure why they stopped running those events, maybe someone can clarify it for me. My assumption is that every time their RAID engine is used it leaves a lot of mess that needs to be cleaned up afterwards on the servers, but that's just guess work.