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No stealth sucks
zakk_
Member Posts: 438
My main was a ranger in DAOC as I mostly like to solo in pvp.WAR having no stealth takes away a lot of the solo possibilities,running around solo in a pvp zone in this game will = 5 minute life expectancy.
When I was playing a non-stealth class stealthers added to the feeling of excitement,you could be attacked at any time and had to be on your toes.
People who haven't had much experience playing a stealth class seem to feel that stealth = god-mode,it doesn't.Granted you should kill most of the targets you engage,but that assassin who just stuck his knife in your back didn't teleport behind you from his hometown tavern.It often takes 20+ minutes to get into that position,and some classes are usually death 1v1 even if you ambush them.
Scouting was loads of fun in DAOC during large battles
me - "inc to bolg"
raid leader - "how many?"
me - "...erm,all of em"
heh,fun times,no more
I can understand why some people don't like stealth,it's hard to balance,griefers attacking ppl at 20% life,but having no stealth does take away a fun way to play a game.
Maybe make it so that you can't attack someone if they're fighting a mob,or under 70% life,if they're not grouped.You could also put a level limit on stealth classes attacking a non-stealth class.If you are a stealth class you can be attacked by anyone anytime as a penalty for playing a stealther.
When I was playing a non-stealth class stealthers added to the feeling of excitement,you could be attacked at any time and had to be on your toes.
People who haven't had much experience playing a stealth class seem to feel that stealth = god-mode,it doesn't.Granted you should kill most of the targets you engage,but that assassin who just stuck his knife in your back didn't teleport behind you from his hometown tavern.It often takes 20+ minutes to get into that position,and some classes are usually death 1v1 even if you ambush them.
Scouting was loads of fun in DAOC during large battles
me - "inc to bolg"
raid leader - "how many?"
me - "...erm,all of em"
heh,fun times,no more
I can understand why some people don't like stealth,it's hard to balance,griefers attacking ppl at 20% life,but having no stealth does take away a fun way to play a game.
Maybe make it so that you can't attack someone if they're fighting a mob,or under 70% life,if they're not grouped.You could also put a level limit on stealth classes attacking a non-stealth class.If you are a stealth class you can be attacked by anyone anytime as a penalty for playing a stealther.
Comments
I have to disagree, and it's not because of what you may expect.
I've played stealth classes more than any other's and enjoy it in other games, but i wont miss it.
There are numerous other ways that have already been invented in other games to scout, dont have to make some guy hang out in stealth waiting to say "inc wherever" and i dont really understand why you think thats fun.
What i enjoyed most about being a stealth class is the strategy you can apply, meaning you can just hang back while all the visible classes have it out and wait for the right moment to strike, but even i realize thats a bit cheap and surely seen as unfair when people are thinking the battle is going a certain way then all of a sudden people start popping up all over the place.
It doesnt mean a shorter lifespan but it does mean people will have to move in groups and use that kind of strategy, the lone person running around a battlefield will surely be risking getting stomped by a group without stealth. And thats fine with me.
Currently in WoW all players have their name above their head in bright-impossible-to-miss colours. Will WAR be like this? All you need to make non-invis scouting viable is remove the name tag. You need to use cover, and mobility to scout, and that's totally fair. Invisibility is not.
For example WoW has an "eye of kilrog" warlocks can make they can send anywhere.
Also with that game death has such little negative repurcussions you may as well scout anything unstealthed,
Die, wait 20 seconds and rez. heh
They also have Spyglass things that can be bought or made to look off in the distance, not as effective as it could be, but thats all you'd really need to scout without getting too close.
No stealthers goes along with no "helears" "tanks" etc all classes are suposed to be hybrids, well we will see
You know even in games like WoW rogues are poor scouts. Hunters are better since they can sacrifice their pet through eyes of the beast or use eagle vision. Stealth is slower, riskier and carries the risk of death slowing future scouting.
I would rather have it not in a game than over/under powered like it always is now-a-days.
Of course I'd LOVE to see a "stealthed" ork flying out of a catapult. SPLAT! "What was that?"
Shayde - SWG (dead)
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I say it is unrealistic because stealth, traditionally has no stealth elements involved. There is no hiding or strategic spots. If your caught in the middle of a grassy plain at high noon, don't worry just hit your button and you will instantaneously disappear.
Plus stealthers in DAOC were designed for solo combat, which meant that if you got huge groups of them together they were almost impossible to take down with even numbers of other classes.
Stealth almost gurantees first strike capabilities and the ability to escape a lot of situations. Something which is utterly dominating. It's no wonder such vast quantities of players go this route.
I played stealth in both DAOC and WOW, and the best description I can give it are "cherry picking" or "poaching". As a stealth class you should never lose unless you get ambushed by another stealth class. What fun is it when the only way to beat 1 class is to get 1 of their class?
Stealth would just imbalance the game and we would wind up with a copy of DAOC where everyone and his mother had a rogue of some sort (WoW players also most commonly have a pet rogue).
Personally I'm very happy with their choice to not only not have stealth, but to try and make all their classes combat oriented (no pure buffers/healers).
This sounds good let's hope they can pull it off.My main was a priest in WOW,and was a lot of fun till the high level melee gear started coming into circulation,with no caster equivalent to increase DPS/Stam/AC
I'm really glad there will be no stealth in WAR.
But aside from a few disgustingly large stealth zergs I've run into, I think DAOC did a pretty decent job with it. To be more specific, I like how DAOC stealth classes are useless to a traditional group. Even in larger numbers, all the bridge/dock camping man stealth groups I’ve run into have been really easy kills for a balanced (support based) group – as it should be.
No stealth = a giant unending brawl,tanks at the front,mages healers at the back..yawn
I think stealth is great for solo and PVE content, but the fact that you actually go invisible in the middle of a field in games like DAOC and WOW is just kind of silly in MP. Stealthers do tend to be the most popular class (soooo many clueless rogues in WOW), which makes things even more silly; "Well, we're out here at high noon guarding this tree in the middle of a field. Oh no, the enture enemy force managed to sneak up on us because we didn't have a human use reception or a mage fire off an AOE." And in WOW my mains were a rogue and druid, so I know the fun side of stealth classes; I'd probably play one if they were in the game, but I'm not upset to see them go.
And actually Zakk it won't be: "And I can't say this enough - EVERY class will be a combat class. Nobody will be running around, healing all day long and trying to stay out of the fray."
"No class will be defenceless 1v1",great that sounds fine,but actual large scale battles will have little in the way of tactical flexibility.
A group of stealthers could turn the tide of battle in DAOC.With crash detection it will be "ok tanks you stand here in a line across the doorway,2nd row of tanks ok you stand here,move up a bit,ok back..ok that's it..ranged and healers you stand here"
Enemy moves forward in the same formation,rinse repeat 100 times in large scale pvp,game gets old inside 6 months.
I think you should be able to scout, spy, sneak around and attack unexpectedly in WAR. However, I dont think this should be achieved thru a stealth = invisible mechanic. Like others have said there're many ways to enable scouting etc in a game without resorting to invisibility.
This is prolly a bad example, but snipers in BF2 wear camo outfits that make them naturally harder to see/detect. Everyone else runs around in combat fatigues while the snipers look like piles of grass. Hiding in the middle of a field, the assault guys sticks out while you have to peer harder for the sniper. And a wise sniper would use terrain / cover to his advantage in scouting / first striking.
Yeah I know BF2 is actually FPS, but it sums up pretty much my train of thought. Maybe someone has an MMORPG example?
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
Still nothing beats being there and all these abilities have a set range..whatever the case traditional scouting is virtually wiped out and mass pvp becomes predictable.Seige weapons will add some fun factor for a while but after the 3rd orc splatters on the wall behind you it could get old..
Solo pve in pvp zones will become.."ok who is that guy on the horizon/behind that rock moving toward me,can I kill him?"yes-prepare for battle,no-run...
Games Workshop needs to give the "GO" if stealth was tobe implemented in WAR; and if that happnes, then fans of the tabletop game will want it implemented into their game too. It just won't work.
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What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Game On!
I spend a vast majority of my free time playing MMO's not tabletops though,the lore of any given game might as well be written in Greek for all I care..shut up you dumb npc and give me my loot =p