The most prominent games that are heavily promote "play to earn" are basically your option (2). It's not sustainable, but it doesn't need to be. So long as the company that made the game gets their money before the model collapses, the game is a success. The suckers who bought high and now have to either sell low or never get any money back aren't their problem.
Why are you so bitter?
Well I am very skeptical of P2E games, for the same reason why I don't do door to door sales, pyramid schemes, or play the slots at the local casino.
Not saying you can't make the money.. just saying.. only a few.. very.. very.. few.. ever really make the big money at it.
The problem with these systems, regardless if it is a game or something else, is that it preys upon the idea that the people coming in are millionaires waiting to happen.. and they don't happen.
They end up with a pile of Tupperware bowls in their cabinets and all their lids are Stanly.
The EVE guys comment was over the top.
I'm not sure where the get rich quick narrative has come from on these forums outside of that.
Lets be honest, because that is what is being sold.
I mean, no one is selling and marketing "Become a Gold Farmer, and make just over min wage grinding a game to the point that you hate it, and feel like you would rather just go to work and stock shelves in a grocery store, then farm the same 20 mobs for 10 hours a day for the same amount of money, maybe a bit less"
They are selling a pipe dream of "Play the games you love and get rich in the process"
Just like people sell many things, showing how fantastic they can be, and they are often.. shall we say.. Not Fantastic.
It reminds me a joke I used to tell my family, when we were all around the BBQ, drinking, smoking and the like, and a few of them would talk about quitting smoking, and they would be like "One day, I'll just stop"
I would tell them "Roughly only 10% of all the people that actually quit smoking, did it cold turkey, the thing is, everyone wants to be in that 10%, but it's 10% for a reason, and you ain't gonna be in it"
I feel this same way about these games were you can make money. Sure, I could make money, but ideally, only a few will, and everyone will rush in with the idea they will be that 1% or whatever, when in reality, they will be the people, 10 years later, still sucking down a pack a day of Marlboro reds, thinking "Any day now.. and Poof, I'll quit.. Any day Now"
Those inside the crypto space don't really feel like what your saying. There is no rush in. We are in. Anyone who has been in the crypto space a year or more understands there aint nothing quick about it.
I'll say this. If you are expecting to go into p2e gaming and get rich quick, you might be disappointed. If you go in with the idea of having a good time and making some extra money, you might just be pleasantly surprised.
And how many of them put money into crypto now with the plan to just leave it there for 20 or 30 years, the way normal people do with long-term investments?
Most, at least the succesful ones. 5 year hold minimum. Anything less i'd question why you even bought it. People buying stuff on coinbase because they heard they can get rich don't make it. They buy the top and sell the bottom.
What bugs me is how they create new terms for things, making it diffuclt to understand their lingo: like P2E (play to earn; aka gold farming) and block-chain (guarantee player ownership of virtual assets; aka meet in-game and talk outside) and cryptography (secure communication; lets be careful somebody else isn't prying in our transaction) and non-fungible tokens (NFT; a character) and fungible tokens (platinum).
It all boils down to selling in-game things (i sold a character--i wish i hadn't) and rebranding it by using lingo nobody understand so it passes underneath their nose--maybe unintentionally but so it goes.
Maybe it's true. The more things change the more they stay the same. In all seriousness, this came to mind
'All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; To the place from which the rivers come, There they return again. All things are full of labor; Man cannot express it. The eye is not satisfied with seeing, Nor the ear filled with hearing. That which has been is what will be, That which is done is what will be done, And there is nothing new under the sun. Is there anything of which it may be said, “See, this is new”? It has already been in ancient times before us. There is no remembrance of former things, Nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come By those who will come after.'
Ecclesiastes 1:7-11
https://my.bible.com/bible/114/ECC.1.7-11
The most prominent games that are heavily promote "play to earn" are basically your option (2). It's not sustainable, but it doesn't need to be. So long as the company that made the game gets their money before the model collapses, the game is a success. The suckers who bought high and now have to either sell low or never get any money back aren't their problem.
Why are you so bitter?
Well I am very skeptical of P2E games, for the same reason why I don't do door to door sales, pyramid schemes, or play the slots at the local casino.
Not saying you can't make the money.. just saying.. only a few.. very.. very.. few.. ever really make the big money at it.
The problem with these systems, regardless if it is a game or something else, is that it preys upon the idea that the people coming in are millionaires waiting to happen.. and they don't happen.
They end up with a pile of Tupperware bowls in their cabinets and all their lids are Stanly.
The EVE guys comment was over the top.
I'm not sure where the get rich quick narrative has come from on these forums outside of that.
Lets be honest, because that is what is being sold.
I mean, no one is selling and marketing "Become a Gold Farmer, and make just over min wage grinding a game to the point that you hate it, and feel like you would rather just go to work and stock shelves in a grocery store, then farm the same 20 mobs for 10 hours a day for the same amount of money, maybe a bit less"
They are selling a pipe dream of "Play the games you love and get rich in the process"
Just like people sell many things, showing how fantastic they can be, and they are often.. shall we say.. Not Fantastic.
It reminds me a joke I used to tell my family, when we were all around the BBQ, drinking, smoking and the like, and a few of them would talk about quitting smoking, and they would be like "One day, I'll just stop"
I would tell them "Roughly only 10% of all the people that actually quit smoking, did it cold turkey, the thing is, everyone wants to be in that 10%, but it's 10% for a reason, and you ain't gonna be in it"
I feel this same way about these games were you can make money. Sure, I could make money, but ideally, only a few will, and everyone will rush in with the idea they will be that 1% or whatever, when in reality, they will be the people, 10 years later, still sucking down a pack a day of Marlboro reds, thinking "Any day now.. and Poof, I'll quit.. Any day Now"
What bugs me is how they create new terms for things, making it diffuclt to understand their lingo: like P2E (play to earn; aka gold farming) and block-chain (guarantee player ownership of virtual assets; aka meet in-game and talk outside) and cryptography (secure communication; lets be careful somebody else isn't prying in our transaction) and non-fungible tokens (NFT; a character) and fungible tokens (platinum).
Cryptography is a very old term and a whole field in software engineering. Blockchain is also a very specific technology term used outside of the context of games.
You could have a point with P2E but gold farming has been commonly used in the past to describe practices that are bannable and against TOS'es. I can't blame them for wantiong to steer away from the term. Although to me it quacks the same, only the tools used differ.
The gold farming anology is solid in some respects.
That's kinda what we do in mmorpgs... We pve, we pvp, and we farm gold. We play the markets.
The change is you wont be forced to hold it. You could cash it in if you choose.
The most prominent games that are heavily promote "play to earn" are basically your option (2). It's not sustainable, but it doesn't need to be. So long as the company that made the game gets their money before the model collapses, the game is a success. The suckers who bought high and now have to either sell low or never get any money back aren't their problem.
Why are you so bitter?
Well I am very skeptical of P2E games, for the same reason why I don't do door to door sales, pyramid schemes, or play the slots at the local casino.
Not saying you can't make the money.. just saying.. only a few.. very.. very.. few.. ever really make the big money at it.
The problem with these systems, regardless if it is a game or something else, is that it preys upon the idea that the people coming in are millionaires waiting to happen.. and they don't happen.
They end up with a pile of Tupperware bowls in their cabinets and all their lids are Stanly.
The EVE guys comment was over the top.
I'm not sure where the get rich quick narrative has come from on these forums outside of that.
Lets be honest, because that is what is being sold.
I mean, no one is selling and marketing "Become a Gold Farmer, and make just over min wage grinding a game to the point that you hate it, and feel like you would rather just go to work and stock shelves in a grocery store, then farm the same 20 mobs for 10 hours a day for the same amount of money, maybe a bit less"
They are selling a pipe dream of "Play the games you love and get rich in the process"
Just like people sell many things, showing how fantastic they can be, and they are often.. shall we say.. Not Fantastic.
It reminds me a joke I used to tell my family, when we were all around the BBQ, drinking, smoking and the like, and a few of them would talk about quitting smoking, and they would be like "One day, I'll just stop"
I would tell them "Roughly only 10% of all the people that actually quit smoking, did it cold turkey, the thing is, everyone wants to be in that 10%, but it's 10% for a reason, and you ain't gonna be in it"
I feel this same way about these games were you can make money. Sure, I could make money, but ideally, only a few will, and everyone will rush in with the idea they will be that 1% or whatever, when in reality, they will be the people, 10 years later, still sucking down a pack a day of Marlboro reds, thinking "Any day now.. and Poof, I'll quit.. Any day Now"
I am part of the 10% I quit cold turkey.
Me too after 33 years.
I always say quitting is easy, I've done it a thousand times
I have not had a cigarette since Jan 14 2014 and I'm scared to ever have a single puff.
Most, at least the succesful ones. 5 year hold minimum. Anything less i'd question why you even bought it. People buying stuff on coinbase because they heard they can get rich don't make it. They buy the top and sell the bottom.
I have no intention of selling.
That is where a fundamental disconnect comes for me. People use the buy-and-hold strategy for these things, yet companies expect that we will believe they can survive on a 2.5% fee off of transactions. If everyone is holding these NFTs *and not selling them*, how can anyone expect a company to be in business for the long term?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Most, at least the succesful ones. 5 year hold minimum. Anything less i'd question why you even bought it. People buying stuff on coinbase because they heard they can get rich don't make it. They buy the top and sell the bottom.
I have no intention of selling.
That is where a fundamental disconnect comes for me. People use the buy-and-hold strategy for these things, yet companies expect that we will believe they can survive on a 2.5% fee off of transactions. If everyone is holding these NFTs *and not selling them*, how can anyone expect a company to be in business for the long term?
Two different things, crypto and nfts.
Currencies as in BTC ETH MATIC, if you do not have a long term approach and a personal use case, you won't be able to hold during hard times and will sell at a loss.
NFTs specifically gaming NFTs when you're done sell them. If you think you can earn more selling them than playing the game, sell them.
And of course like any other gane, there will be expansion, drops, ect. the 2.5% is just a really nice extra where gamers win, market places win and devs win.
Most, at least the succesful ones. 5 year hold minimum. Anything less i'd question why you even bought it. People buying stuff on coinbase because they heard they can get rich don't make it. They buy the top and sell the bottom.
I have no intention of selling.
That is where a fundamental disconnect comes for me. People use the buy-and-hold strategy for these things, yet companies expect that we will believe they can survive on a 2.5% fee off of transactions. If everyone is holding these NFTs *and not selling them*, how can anyone expect a company to be in business for the long term?
Two different things, crypto and nfts.
Currencies as in BTC ETH MATIC, if you do not have a long term approach and a personal use case, you won't be able to hold during hard times and will sell at a loss.
NFTs specifically gaming NFTs when you're done sell them. If you think you can earn more selling them than playing the game, sell them.
And of course like any other gane, there will be expansion, drops, ect. the 2.5% is just a really nice extra where gamers win, market places win and devs win.
Most, at least the succesful ones. 5 year hold minimum. Anything less i'd question why you even bought it. People buying stuff on coinbase because they heard they can get rich don't make it. They buy the top and sell the bottom.
I have no intention of selling.
That is where a fundamental disconnect comes for me. People use the buy-and-hold strategy for these things, yet companies expect that we will believe they can survive on a 2.5% fee off of transactions. If everyone is holding these NFTs *and not selling them*, how can anyone expect a company to be in business for the long term?
Two different things, crypto and nfts.
Currencies as in BTC ETH MATIC, if you do not have a long term approach and a personal use case, you won't be able to hold during hard times and will sell at a loss.
NFTs specifically gaming NFTs when you're done sell them. If you think you can earn more selling them than playing the game, sell them.
And of course like any other gane, there will be expansion, drops, ect. the 2.5% is just a really nice extra where gamers win, market places win and devs win.
Unless of course....
There are booboo's
Ok, what are booboos in reference to our discussion?
Most, at least the succesful ones. 5 year hold minimum. Anything less i'd question why you even bought it. People buying stuff on coinbase because they heard they can get rich don't make it. They buy the top and sell the bottom.
I have no intention of selling.
That is where a fundamental disconnect comes for me. People use the buy-and-hold strategy for these things, yet companies expect that we will believe they can survive on a 2.5% fee off of transactions. If everyone is holding these NFTs *and not selling them*, how can anyone expect a company to be in business for the long term?
Two different things, crypto and nfts.
Currencies as in BTC ETH MATIC, if you do not have a long term approach and a personal use case, you won't be able to hold during hard times and will sell at a loss.
NFTs specifically gaming NFTs when you're done sell them. If you think you can earn more selling them than playing the game, sell them.
And of course like any other gane, there will be expansion, drops, ect. the 2.5% is just a really nice extra where gamers win, market places win and devs win.
Unless of course....
There are booboo's
Ok, what are booboos in reference to our discussion?
Most, at least the succesful ones. 5 year hold minimum. Anything less i'd question why you even bought it. People buying stuff on coinbase because they heard they can get rich don't make it. They buy the top and sell the bottom.
I have no intention of selling.
That is where a fundamental disconnect comes for me. People use the buy-and-hold strategy for these things, yet companies expect that we will believe they can survive on a 2.5% fee off of transactions. If everyone is holding these NFTs *and not selling them*, how can anyone expect a company to be in business for the long term?
Two different things, crypto and nfts.
Currencies as in BTC ETH MATIC, if you do not have a long term approach and a personal use case, you won't be able to hold during hard times and will sell at a loss.
NFTs specifically gaming NFTs when you're done sell them. If you think you can earn more selling them than playing the game, sell them.
And of course like any other gane, there will be expansion, drops, ect. the 2.5% is just a really nice extra where gamers win, market places win and devs win.
Unless of course....
There are booboo's
Ok, what are booboos in reference to our discussion?
Most, at least the succesful ones. 5 year hold minimum. Anything less i'd question why you even bought it. People buying stuff on coinbase because they heard they can get rich don't make it. They buy the top and sell the bottom.
I have no intention of selling.
That is where a fundamental disconnect comes for me. People use the buy-and-hold strategy for these things, yet companies expect that we will believe they can survive on a 2.5% fee off of transactions. If everyone is holding these NFTs *and not selling them*, how can anyone expect a company to be in business for the long term?
Two different things, crypto and nfts.
Currencies as in BTC ETH MATIC, if you do not have a long term approach and a personal use case, you won't be able to hold during hard times and will sell at a loss.
NFTs specifically gaming NFTs when you're done sell them. If you think you can earn more selling them than playing the game, sell them.
And of course like any other gane, there will be expansion, drops, ect. the 2.5% is just a really nice extra where gamers win, market places win and devs win.
Unless of course....
There are booboo's
Ok, what are booboos in reference to our discussion?
I don't know what it's like in billion dollar circles. But in circles where business men make 1 million dollar - 2 million dollar deals.
A Boo-boo is a mistake or blunder made on purpose.
How are these booboos regulated in your circles?
If you attract too much attention to yourself you will end up with a government audit on your hands.
I've only had one of those and they suck.
In the defi and NFT space if too big of a booboo, people are receiving phone calls with offerers to stop by and "assest".
The SEC handles the bigger ones.
It's the wild west right with that stuff right now.
Lots of money to be made and lots of money to be lost. Shady characters jump right on that stuff.
Personally I like to be guaranteed, even if its only in my own mind. I'm 100% in control of my destiny as my wealth generation goes, If the work dried up tomorrow, I'd be a wealthy man.
If things get so bad that I go broke, it won't matter anyway.
"NFTs are just a way for users to own their stuff. The logic that everything becomes pay to win is blatantly false.
Any game studio can make their games pay to win now, but they dont because pay to win games are less successful.
The best NFT games will not be pay to win" - @ellioTrades
You don't need NFTs to create ownership rights to digital assets.
Just a governing body who gives a shit and is willing to do the research on how to get it done properly.
You have one in mind?
Yea, government. The same one the world has been using for centuries. Only, there's this awful recent trend of folks electing government officials based on personal animus rather than qualifications or performance. It's created a void of responsible leadership, and a sort of wild west in new markets/market strategies is the inevitable result. It won't end well for the majority of the population. Likely will be a net loss in the end when some rather huge event sparks outrage enough to get governments involved in knee-jerk reactionary legislation instead of measured, thoughtful legislation.
I think those who are gung ho about this "decentralized" currency are going to receive a rather stark reminder as to why people around the world placed their faith in governments to provide and manage currency in the first place.
"NFTs are just a way for users to own their stuff. The logic that everything becomes pay to win is blatantly false.
Any game studio can make their games pay to win now, but they dont because pay to win games are less successful.
The best NFT games will not be pay to win" - @ellioTrades
You don't need NFTs to create ownership rights to digital assets.
Just a governing body who gives a shit and is willing to do the research on how to get it done properly.
You have one in mind?
Yea, government. The same one the world has been using for centuries. Only, there's this awful recent trend of folks electing government officials based on personal animus rather than qualifications or performance. It's created a void of responsible leadership, and a sort of wild west in new markets/market strategies is the inevitable result. It won't end well for the majority of the population. Likely will be a net loss in the end when some rather huge event sparks outrage enough to get governments involved in knee-jerk reactionary legislation instead of measured, thoughtful legislation.
I think those who are gung ho about this "decentralized" currency are going to receive a rather stark reminder as to why people around the world placed their faith in governments to provide and manage currency in the first place.
"NFTs are just a way for users to own their stuff. The logic that everything becomes pay to win is blatantly false.
Any game studio can make their games pay to win now, but they dont because pay to win games are less successful.
The best NFT games will not be pay to win" - @ellioTrades
You don't need NFTs to create ownership rights to digital assets.
Just a governing body who gives a shit and is willing to do the research on how to get it done properly.
You have one in mind?
Yea, government. The same one the world has been using for centuries. Only, there's this awful recent trend of folks electing government officials based on personal animus rather than qualifications or performance. It's created a void of responsible leadership, and a sort of wild west in new markets/market strategies is the inevitable result. It won't end well for the majority of the population. Likely will be a net loss in the end when some rather huge event sparks outrage enough to get governments involved in knee-jerk reactionary legislation instead of measured, thoughtful legislation.
I think those who are gung ho about this "decentralized" currency are going to receive a rather stark reminder as to why people around the world placed their faith in governments to provide and manage currency in the first place.
"NFTs are just a way for users to own their stuff. The logic that everything becomes pay to win is blatantly false.
Any game studio can make their games pay to win now, but they dont because pay to win games are less successful.
The best NFT games will not be pay to win" - @ellioTrades
You don't need NFTs to create ownership rights to digital assets.
Just a governing body who gives a shit and is willing to do the research on how to get it done properly.
You have one in mind?
Yea, government. The same one the world has been using for centuries. Only, there's this awful recent trend of folks electing government officials based on personal animus rather than qualifications or performance. It's created a void of responsible leadership, and a sort of wild west in new markets/market strategies is the inevitable result. It won't end well for the majority of the population. Likely will be a net loss in the end when some rather huge event sparks outrage enough to get governments involved in knee-jerk reactionary legislation instead of measured, thoughtful legislation.
I think those who are gung ho about this "decentralized" currency are going to receive a rather stark reminder as to why people around the world placed their faith in governments to provide and manage currency in the first place.
Do you know what this is?
Too much money with no place to go.
and
a disaster waiting to happen.
That's government systematically devaluing fiat across the world at a disasterous pace.
Wondering why the cost of beef has nearly doubled? Here you go.
"NFTs are just a way for users to own their stuff. The logic that everything becomes pay to win is blatantly false.
Any game studio can make their games pay to win now, but they dont because pay to win games are less successful.
The best NFT games will not be pay to win" - @ellioTrades
You don't need NFTs to create ownership rights to digital assets.
Just a governing body who gives a shit and is willing to do the research on how to get it done properly.
You have one in mind?
Yea, government. The same one the world has been using for centuries. Only, there's this awful recent trend of folks electing government officials based on personal animus rather than qualifications or performance. It's created a void of responsible leadership, and a sort of wild west in new markets/market strategies is the inevitable result. It won't end well for the majority of the population. Likely will be a net loss in the end when some rather huge event sparks outrage enough to get governments involved in knee-jerk reactionary legislation instead of measured, thoughtful legislation.
I think those who are gung ho about this "decentralized" currency are going to receive a rather stark reminder as to why people around the world placed their faith in governments to provide and manage currency in the first place.
Do you know what this is?
Not sure what it proves other than what I said, though.
Comments
I have no intention of selling.
That's kinda what we do in mmorpgs... We pve, we pvp, and we farm gold. We play the markets.
The change is you wont be forced to hold it. You could cash it in if you choose.
I always say quitting is easy, I've done it a thousand times
I have not had a cigarette since Jan 14 2014 and I'm scared to ever have a single puff.
But I do have the odd cigar
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Currencies as in BTC ETH MATIC, if you do not have a long term approach and a personal use case, you won't be able to hold during hard times and will sell at a loss.
NFTs specifically gaming NFTs when you're done sell them. If you think you can earn more selling them than playing the game, sell them.
And of course like any other gane, there will be expansion, drops, ect. the 2.5% is just a really nice extra where gamers win, market places win and devs win.
There are booboo's
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Merriam Webster if you like
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
https://www.cryptokitties.co/profile/0x4bA9624C1d12b2Df630A55264e8EBD93a79762a3 - booboo kitties
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/boo-boo
boo-boo
nounTo save this word, you'll need to log in.
Definition of boo-boo
Synonyms for boo-boo
Synonyms
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I don't know what it's like in billion dollar circles. But in circles where business men make 1 million dollar - 2 million dollar deals.
A Boo-boo is a mistake or blunder made on purpose.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I've only had one of those and they suck.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
The SEC handles the bigger ones.
Lots of money to be made and lots of money to be lost. Shady characters jump right on that stuff.
Personally I like to be guaranteed, even if its only in my own mind. I'm 100% in control of my destiny as my wealth generation goes, If the work dried up tomorrow, I'd be a wealthy man.
If things get so bad that I go broke, it won't matter anyway.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Any game studio can make their games pay to win now, but they dont because pay to win games are less successful.
The best NFT games will not be pay to win" - @ellioTrades
Just a governing body who gives a shit and is willing to do the research on how to get it done properly.
I think those who are gung ho about this "decentralized" currency are going to receive a rather stark reminder as to why people around the world placed their faith in governments to provide and manage currency in the first place.
Do you know what this is?
and
a disaster waiting to happen.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Wondering why the cost of beef has nearly doubled? Here you go.