A public call for MJ to drop the NDA

Kyleran · February 2022

BLNX said:

Ever wish you had 10k to throw away just so you can be more outraged than everyone else?

Naw, I want to be so rich 10K is strip club tip money.

BruceYee · February 2022

nurso said:

BruceYee said:

We have to come to terms with the possibility that he just used CU to earn funds to build his unchained engine. I mean... Ragnarok on Steam is LITERALLY an engine demo...

As far as I know, the decision to develop their own engine was only made when commercial engines proved inadequate for CU's unique selling points.

And if they have already decided on their own custom engine, then it is also obvious to make more out of it than just a flash in the pan and immediately mothballed it again straight away.

And no, Ragnarok is not yet a proper engine demo, IMO. It simply lacks key-moments that cannot be achieved with any other engine.

Have you played Ragnarok on Steam? If so, you were one of the 30'ish people that did and would've noticed virtually everything in the game is a placeholder. Even the store with 'potential' purchase slots & tutorial is showing what is roughly available to a person/company interested in licensing the engine for a 1 zone lobby game. << not shitting on this concept. I'd be interested in playing a 40k game like that if they can sort out the migraine inducing visuals. It could possibly even be better than some of the ultra low quality games GW has put out.

https://steamdb.info/app/1605600/graphs/

Here's your first post on this site in 2016 that just happens to be an in depth explanation of some CU stuff... Your 2nd, 3rd posts and many others are in defense and about CU.

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7085763#Comment_7085763

Here's some CU info from the Wikipedia page...

"City State Entertainment started a Kickstarter funding project for Camelot Unchained on April 2, 2013, By the Kickstarter's conclusion on May 2, 2013, it had 14,873 backers with US$2,232,933 raised"

"The initial funding for the development of the game came from Kickstarter, with $2,232,933 being generated at the finish of Kickstarter campaign. Using an additional opportunity for people to keep funding the project directly through official website, the total crowdfunded amount was $4.5 million"

"On March 3, 2015, Camelot Unchained entered into Alpha 1"

"Camelot Unchained Beta 1 launched on July 31, 2018"

Kickstarter was 9 years ago..

2+ million was donated just on the CU site.

$4.5 million total free money for a project that has yet to materialize into anything playable...

Yet there's a 1 zone engine demo that sits on Steam that 30'ish players have bought that hasn't had any updates since early November of last year...

If Ragnarok was/is an actual game and not an engine demo then why is it still on Steam when only around 30 people have bought it? $20 x 30 = $600.

Why have there been no updates by the devs in the Ragnarok Steam forums since early Nov last year IF it was an actual game intended to earn a profit like other games? Surely the devs would want to make it known that the game is still being worked on b/c a game seen as 'abandoned' on Steam is a death sentence..

My uneducated/unwanted opinion is that IF a person was interested in licensing the Unchained engine for a small one zone lobby game CSE would provide that person/company with a free steam key to test out the features available to them... But what do I know... I'm just a lowly forum nobody...

nurso · February 2022

Slapshot1188 said:

How much time did you spend playing CU last month?

If you count "exploration" and "bug hunting" as playing, I've already played about 2-3 hours of CU in the last month. I would like to play more, but unfortunately my schedule doesn't allow it.

BLNX · February 2022

I heard bug hunting is a major feature of some games, like Animal Crossing. Can't wait to start my collection in CU!

nurso · February 2022

YashaX said:

What do you consider to be "CU's unique selling points"?

Unique selling points which, as far as I know, depend on the engine and server code:

scalability
real massively multiplayer
huge draw distances
server-based physics
destructible buildings desgined & constructed by players

nurso · February 2022

BruceYee said:

Have you played Ragnarok on Steam? If so, you were one of the 30'ish people that did and would've noticed virtually everything in the game is a placeholder. Even the store with 'potential' purchase slots & tutorial is showing what is roughly available to a person/company interested in licensing the engine for a 1 zone lobby game. << not shitting on this concept. I'd be interested in playing a 40k game like that if they can sort out the migraine inducing visuals. It could possibly even be better than some of the ultra low quality games GW has put out.

Yes, I have played FSR, just not on Steam.

I think you have misunderstood me: I didn't dispute that CSE would like to license the CU engine at some point. But I don't think CU and FSR are demos of the engine, but the other way around, that the engine is designed based on the game ideas.

BruceYee said:

Here's your first post on this site in 2016 that just happens to be an in depth explanation of some CU stuff... Your 2nd, 3rd posts and many others are in defense and about CU.

What's the argument here, other than it's creepy when someone probes someone else's posting history for no apparent reason?

BruceYee said:

If Ragnarok was/is an actual game and not an engine demo then why is it still on Steam when only around 30 people have bought it? $20 x 30 = $600.

Why have there been no updates by the devs in the Ragnarok Steam forums since early Nov last year IF it was an actual game intended to earn a profit like other games? Surely the devs would want to make it known that the game is still being worked on b/c a game seen as 'abandoned' on Steam is a death sentence..

The Steam EA release of FSR, like the development itself, was justified in part by the fact that the experience would be good for the devs. That is one justification, but not the only one. Whether it is a good reason can be debated. Some in the community disagree (and I am one of them).

The price was set with the upcoming gameplay features in mind (read the Steam-shop page!). At the moment it is definitely far too expensive.

Yes, the forum and communication in general are a problem. The only place where there is a lively exchange with the developers is the FSR Discord.

nurso · February 2022

tzervo said:

I'd be interested to know (and a bit very skeptical) about the exchanges happening in the discord of a game with 0 players online.

CU is similar to, but not quite as bad as FSR; both FSR forums, the one on Steam and the one on the homepage, are all but dead. The CU forum at least still gives a few signs of life.

On the other hand, both Discords, CU's and FSR's, are healthy compared to the forums ofc. Just to put my statement in perspective.

Kyleran · February 2022

nurso said:

tzervo said:

I'd be interested to know (and a bit very skeptical) about the exchanges happening in the discord of a game with 0 players online.

CU is similar to, but not quite as bad as FSR; both FSR forums, the one on Steam and the one on the homepage, are all but dead. The CU forum at least still gives a few signs of life.

On the other hand, both Discords, CU's and FSR's, are healthy compared to the forums ofc. Just to put my statement in perspective.

Anything above zero is healthy I suppose.

Kyleran · February 2022

user298 said:

Slapshot1188 said:
The newsletter... come on.. we all know nobody has opened one in years.

I still read the newsletters because they provide endless source of entertainment. Like the people at CSE posting doctored screenshots of wooden dicks in them: https://imgur.com/a/Y293XNp

That's a real screenshot from their https://camelotunchained.com/v3/ending-the-year-on-a-fast-note-thursday-december-23rd-2021/

Or like in latest newsletter, where after over 8 years of development, they announced that they finally started to record live sounds of piece of metal hitting another piece of metal:
https://mcusercontent.com/2b70fd18d895dd960141bac55/files/296e6b33-9a5a-62fc-7365-25f3d3d35721/_1_OnLocation_RealSword.wav

Thanks for sharing the dik picture, can't believe they let that slip through, and even better, still have it up in their site as of yesterday.

Regarding the sound recording, can't believe there isn't packaged sound available for game developers to purchase, what with all the availabile game engines and fantasy games being made over the years.

Certainly not every game dev team has to go out and record their own sound effects, right? (If not, I just found my new business to Kickstart)

This level of "realism" is along the lines of SC gold plating (now with more realistic toilet flushing effects recorded right in their UK restrooms) if something more efficient is available on the market.

Hrrm, perhaps they lack the money to purchase such these days?

Scot · February 2022

Kyleran said:

user298 said:

Slapshot1188 said:
The newsletter... come on.. we all know nobody has opened one in years.

I still read the newsletters because they provide endless source of entertainment. Like the people at CSE posting doctored screenshots of wooden dicks in them: https://imgur.com/a/Y293XNp

That's a real screenshot from their https://camelotunchained.com/v3/ending-the-year-on-a-fast-note-thursday-december-23rd-2021/

Or like in latest newsletter, where after over 8 years of development, they announced that they finally started to record live sounds of piece of metal hitting another piece of metal:
https://mcusercontent.com/2b70fd18d895dd960141bac55/files/296e6b33-9a5a-62fc-7365-25f3d3d35721/_1_OnLocation_RealSword.wav

Thanks for sharing the dik picture, can't believe they let that slip through, and even better, still have it up in their site as of yesterday.

Regarding the sound recording, can't believe there isn't packaged sound available for game developers to purchase, what with all the availabile game engines and fantasy games being made over the years.

Certainly not every game dev team has to go out and record their own sound effects, right? (If not, I just found my new business to Kickstart)

This level of "realism" is along the lines of SC gold plating (now with more realistic toilet flushing effects recorded right in their UK restrooms) if something more efficient is available on the market.

Hrrm, perhaps they lack the money to purchase such these days?

You can buy canned sound effects for just about anything, but they are still typically made by the studio or made especially for the studio by someone else.

Slapshot1188 · February 2022

nurso said:

Slapshot1188 said:

How much time did you spend playing CU last month?

If you count "exploration" and "bug hunting" as playing, I've already played about 2-3 hours of CU in the last month. I would like to play more, but unfortunately my schedule doesn't allow it.

This is my point. You are one of the bigger fans that frequent this site. You played 2-3 hours all month.

That is the general apathy I reference.

CU seems to be on a similar path as Ragnarok...

Apathy is far worse than hate.

nurso · February 2022

Slapshot1188 said:

This is my point. You are one of the bigger fans that frequent this site. You played 2-3 hours all month.

That is the general apathy I reference.

No. Just to be very clear: That's a "personal" issue called scheduling conflict. If the test were regularly held on other weekdays, I would easily have ten times the number of hours.

Sovrath · February 2022

Scot said:

Kyleran said:

user298 said:

Slapshot1188 said:
The newsletter... come on.. we all know nobody has opened one in years.

I still read the newsletters because they provide endless source of entertainment. Like the people at CSE posting doctored screenshots of wooden dicks in them: https://imgur.com/a/Y293XNp

That's a real screenshot from their https://camelotunchained.com/v3/ending-the-year-on-a-fast-note-thursday-december-23rd-2021/

Or like in latest newsletter, where after over 8 years of development, they announced that they finally started to record live sounds of piece of metal hitting another piece of metal:
https://mcusercontent.com/2b70fd18d895dd960141bac55/files/296e6b33-9a5a-62fc-7365-25f3d3d35721/_1_OnLocation_RealSword.wav

Thanks for sharing the dik picture, can't believe they let that slip through, and even better, still have it up in their site as of yesterday.

Regarding the sound recording, can't believe there isn't packaged sound available for game developers to purchase, what with all the availabile game engines and fantasy games being made over the years.

Certainly not every game dev team has to go out and record their own sound effects, right? (If not, I just found my new business to Kickstart)

This level of "realism" is along the lines of SC gold plating (now with more realistic toilet flushing effects recorded right in their UK restrooms) if something more efficient is available on the market.

Hrrm, perhaps they lack the money to purchase such these days?

You can buy canned sound effects for just about anything, but they are still typically made by the studio or made especially for the studio by someone else.

True!

My mod has quite a few purchased sound affects.

Every time I needed some sort of sound effect I went to pond5, bought one with the appropriate license, installed it and kept going.

Easiest thing ever.

BruceYee · February 2022

nurso said:

BruceYee said:

Have you played Ragnarok on Steam? If so, you were one of the 30'ish people that did and would've noticed virtually everything in the game is a placeholder. Even the store with 'potential' purchase slots & tutorial is showing what is roughly available to a person/company interested in licensing the engine for a 1 zone lobby game. << not shitting on this concept. I'd be interested in playing a 40k game like that if they can sort out the migraine inducing visuals. It could possibly even be better than some of the ultra low quality games GW has put out.

Yes, I have played FSR, just not on Steam.

I think you have misunderstood me: I didn't dispute that CSE would like to license the CU engine at some point. But I don't think CU and FSR are demos of the engine, but the other way around, that the engine is designed based on the game ideas.

BruceYee said:

Here's your first post on this site in 2016 that just happens to be an in depth explanation of some CU stuff... Your 2nd, 3rd posts and many others are in defense and about CU.

What's the argument here, other than it's creepy when someone probes someone else's posting history for no apparent reason?

BruceYee said:

If Ragnarok was/is an actual game and not an engine demo then why is it still on Steam when only around 30 people have bought it? $20 x 30 = $600.

Why have there been no updates by the devs in the Ragnarok Steam forums since early Nov last year IF it was an actual game intended to earn a profit like other games? Surely the devs would want to make it known that the game is still being worked on b/c a game seen as 'abandoned' on Steam is a death sentence..

The Steam EA release of FSR, like the development itself, was justified in part by the fact that the experience would be good for the devs. That is one justification, but not the only one. Whether it is a good reason can be debated. Some in the community disagree (and I am one of them).

The price was set with the upcoming gameplay features in mind (read the Steam-shop page!). At the moment it is definitely far too expensive.

Yes, the forum and communication in general are a problem. The only place where there is a lively exchange with the developers is the FSR Discord.

Your entire response is worded like a community manager pretending not to be a community manager or someone affiliated with the game...

"What's the argument here, other than it's creepy when someone probes someone else's posting history for no apparent reason?"

No reason? Your responses + defense of a game that was Kickstarted in 2013 and still not out in 2022 is highly SUS. I brought up your firsts posts on this forum(which everyone should go read here https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7085763#Comment_7085763 ) because they read like responses from CU staff NOT like responses from some random forum user and ESPECIALLY not like someone's first posts on forum they just happened to join in 2016 after CU came around.

Here are your very first posts on this forum for those too lazy to click that link I just posted.

"If you want to import a C.U.B.E. project, CSE have to approve it first; inappropriate buildings (wrong art-style f.e.) wont be in CU ... but again, they haven't decided on design-standards yet, because their tools aren't ready.

CU is progressing in a good pace, but not in areas that are visible for the public / layman ... that's one of the reasons why CSE isn't advertising CU as much as they could, because code isn't 'aesthetic' pleasing

CSE haven't decided on an art-style yet. Those pictures in all the article are just fan-creations or older test-buildings.

They're about to (i) include building-physics (so that upside down pyramids are impossible) and (ii) 'enhance' C.U.B.E., because f.e. currently there are no round building blocks.

Their next steps are:

    upgrading C.U.B.E.
    deciding on the art-styles
    hiring a builders-squad

After beta 1 most of the buildings should be finished." << beta 1 was in 2015?!? what happened? for 6+ years?

Can you see how what you wrote as your very first posts can be seen as someone affiliated with the game? No intro like "hi" or a couple ice breaker joke posts but getting into details about CU straight away AND defending them consistently ever since 2016 in a very MJ style.

You also do wordplay just like MJ.. You said in a previous post that the CSE only decided to create the Unchained engine AFTER they realized other engines could not do what they had planned YET you left out the part that that was decided before any crowdfunding happened in an attempt to manipulate those who weren't around at that time. The 'building our own engine' was one of the initial selling points for the game as shown here on their Kickstarter page...

"Tech Director and lead programmer Andrew Meggs is spearheading the creation of our internal Unchained Engine. It’s sole purpose: to allow our players to fight epic RvR battles in a dynamic world, without the slideshows or limitations of many past games"

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/description

I want the game to come out and succeed and I backed the game with $300 right away meaning I receive every single email update and have watched every single stream. Not gonna make excuses though for everything that was promised then 9 years later not delivering any of it...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

Just look at all the promises on that KS page AND endorsements from Larian Studios and Jake Song.. Was it mentioned anywhere on that KS page that in 2022 almost all of those promised 'features' wouldn't be available or even a game beyond some test demo? NO.

14,873 backers on KS + X amount on the actual CU site alone that 'donated' 2mil+... That's possibly 20k+ backers that didn't receive the product they backed NINE years later.

I said before that I have NO hard feelings toward MJ or CSE, ZERO. I hope the game is released one day with 500 vs 500 battles and is the best MMO ever created somehow with a 15-20mil budget.

Estimated delivery: Dec 2015 < from the Kickstarter page.

Scorchien · February 2022

Game is shit .. MJ is a fucking idiot , I told yas this the day CU was announced , And the game nor him are worthy of anyones energy or attention .

Nitro-1 · February 2022

....and what's the point of this tread?

nurso · February 2022

BruceYee said:

Your entire response is worded like a community manager pretending not to be a community manager or someone affiliated with the game...

Are you perhaps annoyed that I have not introduced myself to you? Are you upset that I re-read my posts before posting? Or do you not like that I share my knowledge as a fan in a subforum specifically for the game I am a fan of? Are you going to harass me until I stop writing positively about a game you obviously don't like?

Like I said, I don't understand why you're digging into my posting history, other than that you want to come across as pretty creepy.

Slapshot1188 · February 2022

nurso said:

Slapshot1188 said:

This is my point. You are one of the bigger fans that frequent this site. You played 2-3 hours all month.

That is the general apathy I reference.

No. Just to be very clear: That's a "personal" issue called scheduling conflict. If the test were regularly held on other weekdays, I would easily have ten times the number of hours.

OK.. So to be CLEAR. If I logged in tonight.. or tomorrow.. primetime weekends...
I would find lots of people? Or a ghost town?

Ungood · February 2022

BruceYee said:

nurso said:

BruceYee said:

We have to come to terms with the possibility that he just used CU to earn funds to build his unchained engine. I mean... Ragnarok on Steam is LITERALLY an engine demo...

As far as I know, the decision to develop their own engine was only made when commercial engines proved inadequate for CU's unique selling points.

And if they have already decided on their own custom engine, then it is also obvious to make more out of it than just a flash in the pan and immediately mothballed it again straight away.

And no, Ragnarok is not yet a proper engine demo, IMO. It simply lacks key-moments that cannot be achieved with any other engine.

Have you played Ragnarok on Steam? If so, you were one of the 30'ish people that did and would've noticed virtually everything in the game is a placeholder. Even the store with 'potential' purchase slots & tutorial is showing what is roughly available to a person/company interested in licensing the engine for a 1 zone lobby game. << not shitting on this concept. I'd be interested in playing a 40k game like that if they can sort out the migraine inducing visuals. It could possibly even be better than some of the ultra low quality games GW has put out.

https://steamdb.info/app/1605600/graphs/

Here's your first post on this site in 2016 that just happens to be an in depth explanation of some CU stuff... Your 2nd, 3rd posts and many others are in defense and about CU.

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7085763#Comment_7085763

Here's some CU info from the Wikipedia page...

"City State Entertainment started a Kickstarter funding project for Camelot Unchained on April 2, 2013, By the Kickstarter's conclusion on May 2, 2013, it had 14,873 backers with US$2,232,933 raised"

"The initial funding for the development of the game came from Kickstarter, with $2,232,933 being generated at the finish of Kickstarter campaign. Using an additional opportunity for people to keep funding the project directly through official website, the total crowdfunded amount was $4.5 million"

"On March 3, 2015, Camelot Unchained entered into Alpha 1"

"Camelot Unchained Beta 1 launched on July 31, 2018"

Kickstarter was 9 years ago..

2+ million was donated just on the CU site.

$4.5 million total free money for a project that has yet to materialize into anything playable...

Yet there's a 1 zone engine demo that sits on Steam that 30'ish players have bought that hasn't had any updates since early November of last year...

If Ragnarok was/is an actual game and not an engine demo then why is it still on Steam when only around 30 people have bought it? $20 x 30 = $600.

Why have there been no updates by the devs in the Ragnarok Steam forums since early Nov last year IF it was an actual game intended to earn a profit like other games? Surely the devs would want to make it known that the game is still being worked on b/c a game seen as 'abandoned' on Steam is a death sentence..

My uneducated/unwanted opinion is that IF a person was interested in licensing the Unchained engine for a small one zone lobby game CSE would provide that person/company with a free steam key to test out the features available to them... But what do I know... I'm just a lowly forum nobody...

You should have jumped into Warhammer 40K Eternal Crusade then. Was a Gem of a Game for WH40K fans, they even put the mold lines on the bolters.. was epic fun.

Too bad it was also a DOA game, that they over promised on and under delivered, but what they did deliver was quite good.

Slapshot1188 · February 2022

tzervo said:

nurso said:

BruceYee said:

Your entire response is worded like a community manager pretending not to be a community manager or someone affiliated with the game...

Are you perhaps annoyed that I have not introduced myself to you? Are you upset that I re-read my posts before posting? Or do you not like that I share my knowledge as a fan in a subforum specifically for the game I am a fan of? Are you going to harass me until I stop writing positively about a game you obviously don't like?

Like I said, I don't understand why you're digging into my posting history, other than that you want to come across as pretty creepy.

Don't mind him, he does that all the time, accusing people of being someone else and of being paid to promote games. According to him Stizzled is Torval and I am a padding account of Slapshot, and also paid to promote do not remember which game at that point. Just laugh with what he posts and move along.

Saga of Lucimia is paying us if I recall... Or Embers Adrift now.

BruceYee · February 2022

nurso said:

BruceYee said:

Your entire response is worded like a community manager pretending not to be a community manager or someone affiliated with the game...

Are you perhaps annoyed that I have not introduced myself to you? Are you upset that I re-read my posts before posting? Or do you not like that I share my knowledge as a fan in a subforum specifically for the game I am a fan of? Are you going to harass me until I stop writing positively about a game you obviously don't like?

Like I said, I don't understand why you're digging into my posting history, other than that you want to come across as pretty creepy.

Oh wow... now resorting to lame insults/mockery rather than face some hard truths and being called out for your sus behavior... that's a VERY MJ thing to do...

How many times have you responded in this thread? Seems like a lot for just some random forum user who barely posts... Anyone else notice distinct similarities in MJ & Nurso's writing/response patterns? cause I do...

I wouldn't have even noticed if it wasn't for your response to my post...

"As far as I know, the decision to develop their own engine was only made when commercial engines proved inadequate for CU's unique selling points." <<< that's MJ level wordplay and 100% not an organic "fan" response. It's an attempt to discredit what I wrote while not providing any actual evidence or explanation proving why I'm wrong. That "decision" you somehow know about from REALLY early on was made BEFORE any funds were collected and the KS began but of course you conveniently left that part out...

This back & forth made me take another look at the CU KS page and I found something interesting that I didn't pick up on before...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

It's ironically under the section "Your money goes where?" lol

"Every dollar we raise from this Kickstarter campaign will go towards development. Our staffing plan includes hiring three additional engineers, two artists, one designer and one part-time writer immediately. The MMO engine will be developed in-house with one purpose, to make a great RvR MMORPG; the engineers will work with Andrew on it, and our existing programmers on the server tech. While this game won’t require the amount of content as Dark Age of Camelot, we still need to hire a few more artists in-house and a writer so, dragons be praised, Mark can go back to his day job and stop writing all these documents."

I was wondering why MJ in a stream once said "I'm not legally obligated to deliver CU" or something like that and the paragraph above is why. He literally told everyone in the statement above that the KS money would be to develop the engine. The only development being written about in that statement is about the engine. The other hiring stuff is just mumbo jumbo and doesn't specify that they're being hired to work on CU. CU isn't mentioned once in that statement lol.

aaand YES Stizzled is Torval @Tservo. You weren't here when angry Torval defender of everything ESO disappeared and Stizzled magically appeared strangely mimicking angry Torval while also playing games he does even to this day @NewWorld. Then all of sudden like magic... Torval was one day pure zen no longer angry like he was for years but once in while he messes up and writes things using the exact same words/patterns + argument strategy like in that nft thread a while back + "semantics"... because keeping track of everything you write on two accounts and not getting confused is hard.. BOTH accounts claimed I wrote something I didn't 1 day apart or possibly even the same day. A way a person argues is unique and to find two people who both do "gotcha" argument tactics using a false claim to make someone argue for something they never said on the same forum at the same time about the same subject is impossible IMO.

BruceYee · February 2022

tzervo said:

BruceYee said:
aaand YES Stizzled is Torval @Tservo. You weren't here when angry Torval defender of everything ESO disappeared and Stizzled magically appeared strangely mimicking angry Torval while also playing games he does even to this day @NewWorld. Then all of sudden like magic... Torval was one day pure zen no longer angry like he was for years but once in while he messes up and writes things using the exact same words/patterns + argument strategy like in that nft thread a while back + "semantics"... because keeping track of everything you write on two accounts and not getting confused is hard.. BOTH accounts claimed I wrote something I didn't 1 day apart or possibly even the same day. A way a person argues is unique and to find two people who both do "gotcha" argument tactics using a false claim to make someone argue for something they never said on the same forum at the same time about the same subject is impossible IMO.

It's tzervo, not tservo.

The writing style between Torval and Stizzled is different. Just as the writing style is completely different between myself and Slapshot, especially given the fact that I have disagreed with him on numerous occasions - and I am glad that I seem to at least have convinced you of that.

What you show is two people agreeing on an occasion. Potentially with both having a bone to pick with you.

And you do with nurso here the same thing that you did with me and P:G back then (see link I posted), baselessly accusing him of shilling just because he is a fan of the project.

You assume too much, use that to attack posters, and your assumptions are hilariously incorrect.

Man... I said you were an alt account of Slap because you kept agreeing with him defending a subscription in an early access MMO that NEITHER of you played... It made no sense to me that someone who didn't even own/play a game would argue so hard about something they have no personal knowledge of/stake in... I never once said you wrote like him and just a reminder that you edited your post to erase the part admitting you never played the game then accused me of lying assuming I didn't read your post before it was changed so you can stop pretending to be the victim in 3...2...1...

BruceYee · February 2022

tzervo said:

BruceYee said:
Man... I said you were an alt account of Slap because you kept agreeing with him defending a subscription in an early access MMO that NEITHER of you played... It made no sense to me that someone who didn't even own/play a game would argue so hard about something they have no personal knowledge of/stake in... I never once said you wrote like him and just a reminder that you edited your post to erase the part admitting you never played the game then accused me of lying assuming I didn't read your post before it was changed so you can stop pretending to be the victim in 3...2...1...

And in my link above I posted the exact same arguments I made with P:G, with a game that I do play (Screeps), to prove that it is a matter of mentality, not stakes in a particular game.

Hence my point about you assuming too much.

I do edit my post often to cut down on the fluff. I need to stop doing that, I can see how it can lead to misunderstandings.

No man... after I told you that I read your post before you edited out the part admitting you never played Project Gorgon rather than admit what you did you said the game you were arguing about all along wasn't Project Gorgon but SCREEPS lol. I didn't edit what I wrote, accuse someone else of lying then when caught claim another game was the one I was discussing/arguing for multiple pages of thread, YOU DID. It's there in the thread anyone can go see exactly what happened unless you edited it again lol.

Giarclen · February 2022

Slapshot1188 said:

nurso said:

Slapshot1188 said:

This is my point. You are one of the bigger fans that frequent this site. You played 2-3 hours all month.

That is the general apathy I reference.

No. Just to be very clear: That's a "personal" issue called scheduling conflict. If the test were regularly held on other weekdays, I would easily have ten times the number of hours.

OK.. So to be CLEAR. If I logged in tonight.. or tomorrow.. primetime weekends...
I would find lots of people? Or a ghost town?

No ghost towns but maybe ghost plains, Goldens Plains, get it ?! ok that was bad, I'll stop

Ok on a more serious note and before I go any further I would like to mention that I've been following this game since day one of the Kickstarter. I am a backer and have taken
part in the tests since the PAT days which is a very very very long time ago. I'm someone who loads the launcher up every week just to update the game.

Just on a side note, my launcher has both CU and FSR on it, and yes when you load it, it updates both games you don't have a choice in what it updates. I'm not really interested in FSR but I am subscribed to their newsletter that you get every month. So work is still been done on FSR(one monthly download). I'm not sure why they don't just copy the newsletter to Steam as a monthly update...

Ok, so I'm going to ramble now. All the points I want to talk about now can be freely found in the public newsletter, even if you may have to go back a few years

The ghost town is partly due to no game loop in this "game" and yeah you see what I did there, as it currently stands it's not a game. Every time they announce a build for a weekend I simply check the build number and if it's the same as the weekend before, I don't even log in, more than likely it's the same for all backers. New builds are no longer weekly but mostly once a month they tend to be "bigger" changes than what we would get for the weekly ones in the past. Sure some of the changes are behind the scenes (Tech, etc.) so not always noticeable to my old eyes. Hopefully, once this long-awaited loop gets installed into the game we will see faster more visible updates.

No Communication to announce the weekly tests, they use forum and discord. Where are the emails!!!!???? not all the backers use these two forms of communication. How hard is it to just create a generic email and just mass send it out every end of the week in time for the weekly tests? So many backers don't even know that there are weekly tests. We all know that they are working on Biomes so not really suitable for testing or trying to find any bugs, hopefully, this will all change once the new combat changes(v2) come into the game, that should be "soon"... lol!

The servers are open every weekend from Friday to Monday, this is a long time and unless something is arranged(a time) by the players, the chances that you're going to run into anyone(Except for the big updates, monthly ones) is slim. CSE really needs to think seriously about bringing back these 3 hour time periods they had in the past. These 3 hour weekend time periods funneled everyone into the same place and time, hence there was always someone to fight. Of course, these were mostly based around scenarios (Capture the Flag, Capture the Keep, etc) but maybe they could bring these types of scenarios into the new biome maps(The new large Golden Plains one maybe?). We just need a centralized area where everyone can gather and fight for those 3 hours. Why is it so hard to do!!?? at the end of the day the backers are all PvP players we just want to fight with or without a game loop. I recall the fun times in Alpha when we had Air still working, it was so basic, a simple keep in the center of a map but it was fun. Even later, fighting over a fully destructible Keep was fun, many people still came for that 3 hour period over the weekends. Of course, in those days emails were sent out to backers to announce when the 3 hour time period would be...

I was going to ramble on more but my post is already way too long and boring. So I'll just say this, I think the NDA should stay up but unlike most people, I think maybe there should be a case put forward to stream these 3-hour weekend tests(Before the loop is implemented) if they ever decide to bring it back that is. I would like to preface this by saying they need to finish the major rework with all the classes before they even think of lifting the NDA or streaming on the weekend. How long is this going to take I have no idea but hopefully, it will be at a pace of a younger faster snail and not that of an old slow geriatric snail

Kyleran · February 2022

tzervo said:

BruceYee said:
aaand YES Stizzled is Torval @Tservo. You weren't here when angry Torval defender of everything ESO disappeared and Stizzled magically appeared strangely mimicking angry Torval while also playing games he does even to this day @NewWorld. Then all of sudden like magic... Torval was one day pure zen no longer angry like he was for years but once in while he messes up and writes things using the exact same words/patterns + argument strategy like in that nft thread a while back + "semantics"... because keeping track of everything you write on two accounts and not getting confused is hard.. BOTH accounts claimed I wrote something I didn't 1 day apart or possibly even the same day. A way a person argues is unique and to find two people who both do "gotcha" argument tactics using a false claim to make someone argue for something they never said on the same forum at the same time about the same subject is impossible IMO.

It's tzervo, not tservo.

The writing style between Torval and Stizzled is different. Just as the writing style is completely different between myself and Slapshot, especially given the fact that I have disagreed with him on numerous occasions - and I am glad that I seem to at least have convinced you of that.

What you show is two people agreeing on an occasion. Potentially with both having a bone to pick with you.

And you do with nurso here the same thing that you did with me and P:G back then (see link I posted), baselessly accusing him of shilling just because he is a fan of the project.

You assume too much, use that to attack posters, and your assumptions are hilariously incorrect.

EDIT: also the fact that one poster appears and another disappears is something I have done myself lots of times with many different posters. If I am tired of an argument but someone I agree with picks it up, I just click the agree button on their posts and give myself a break.

For those you disagree with but are too tired to respond to, use LOL.

We are all just alts of @Gdemami in the end.

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A public call for MJ to drop the NDA

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV