I don't think UO would have died without Trammel, which in my opinion, was one of the least desirable ways to handle the PK problem.
What is clear, is something had to be done and I would have preferred a solution that kept the world unified but significantly reigned in the PKS. Any number of creative options were suggested but perhaps there were technical limitations.
I would have dialed up the role of the virtue shrines in the lore such that to keep your 700 skill points you had to remain in favor with all 7 shrines. Losing favor with the shrines would cull your skill points, making you a weaker threat.
I would have also ramped up the bounty hunting system, eliminated fast travel for PKs, and other options while at the same time creating 'Pirate Islands' where lawlessness could run its course.
It's been a stagnant zombie even with Trammel so it couldn't have gotten much better with a few wild creative options in place. A lot of crazy ideas have been tried in various games before, with PvP only zones, jails, and penalties. It hasn't worked for them why would it work here? UO is a bunch of good ideas with a lot of really poor execution and management.
The fact that a few people would rather play a bunch of scrub pirate servers than pay to play the real deal speaks volumes about the community and quality of game. It's niche at best. It always has been and will be.
26 years running , I wonder if New World will make 26 months..
I'm not sure what New World has to do with all of UO's flaws and perpetually anemic population issues. Obviously someone is bankrolling the game to keep it around. Maybe EA likes having the PR of the oldest running MMO (that no one really plays). Or maybe they have someone at EA who likes it and keeps it going despite its lack of profitability. Hard to say. Even on the pirate server scene it isn't popular. Pretty much every other shuttered MMO is more popular.
On paper people should love this game. In practice though, they don't. Like I said great ideas with some horrible execution, much like New World. At least New World is pretty with great sound. The same can't be said about UO. But for the fans of any game the warts and flaws don't matter.
1.Lol The only reason you mention UO at all is because of NW failures , everyone here , realizes that ..
2.UO has really memorable sound.. And excellent systems under the hood ..
3. NW has a pile of shit under the hood and why 97% of the base has left ..
4. ANy dev will tell you all the great things UO has brought to the genre that has copied by dozens of games ..
5. NW has brought nothing to the genre except a lesson what not to do in making a AAA MMO .. lmfao ..
6. UO has 4k-8k concurrent players daily and its a sub game ..( and by Housing counts , you must sub to place a house .. (estimates are300- 400k subs) .. NW has ZERO subs ..
7. NW is a B2P AAA shiny Turd that is creeping nearer each day to UO 26 year old Indie numbers .. Bahahaha
8. when UO launches its Legacy servers on Steam this year , it very well may pass NW in concurrent players for a time , which should not happen at all ..
Jesus, some people here can't really handle when their precious games are even so slightly "attacked". Still amazes me.
And in this case, it's even more amusing... it's the pot calling the kettle black
Some hard facts about UO...
I was in the beta... that was in 1996 !
And of course played at launch. As a huge fan of the single player Ultima CRPGs, I was waiting for such a game since a very long time.
The game was a mess, the NW launch is totally bug free in comparison.
Lag, rubber-banding, exploits, dupes, you had it all.
And that lasted for months.
When they introduced housing, it was a mess all over again.
I love the game, it's definitely a milestone, but I don't wear rose colored glasses and I was there, so you can't fool me. At first, the game was barely playable. One of the few other MMORPGs that was in such bad state at release was Anarchy Online.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Jesus, some people here can't really handle when their precious games are even so slightly "attacked". Still amazes me.
And in this case, it's even more amusing... it's the pot calling the kettle black
Some hard facts about UO...
I was in the beta... that was in 1996 !
And of course played at launch. As a huge fan of the single player Ultima CRPGs, I was waiting for such a game since a very long time.
The game was a mess, the NW launch is totally bug free in comparison.
Lag, rubber-banding, exploits, dupes, you had it all.
And that lasted for months.
When they introduced housing, it was a mess all over again.
I love the game, it's definitely a milestone, but I don't wear rose colored glasses and I was there, so you can't fool me. At first, the game was barely playable. One of the few other MMORPGs that was in such bad state at release was Anarchy Online.
LOl blah blah blah ,,Yea i was there to and still am 26 years later ..
Unlike you whos fearful flight from UO is legendary here ..
You ran away because someone hurt your pixels ..
NW launch was no better than UOS .. matter a fact worse whn you consider that a AAA dev (AGS) had 26 years of knowledge to draw from and made the same mistakes a Indie dev(Origin) did 26 years earlier ..
The smart kids realize this ..
The other kids say things like "The game was a mess, the NW launch is totally bug free in comparison."
We should all strive not to be the other kid ..
You cant make this shit up..
Your logic is flawed as usual ..
Flawed broken and useless , much like NW itself ..
Jesus, some people here can't really handle when their precious games are even so slightly "attacked". Still amazes me.
And in this case, it's even more amusing... it's the pot calling the kettle black
Some hard facts about UO...
I was in the beta... that was in 1996 !
And of course played at launch. As a huge fan of the single player Ultima CRPGs, I was waiting for such a game since a very long time.
The game was a mess, the NW launch is totally bug free in comparison.
Lag, rubber-banding, exploits, dupes, you had it all.
And that lasted for months.
When they introduced housing, it was a mess all over again.
I love the game, it's definitely a milestone, but I don't wear rose colored glasses and I was there, so you can't fool me. At first, the game was barely playable. One of the few other MMORPGs that was in such bad state at release was Anarchy Online.
I don't doubt your experience here; however, comparing a launch in 1997 with what a launch should be 25 years later is a bit odd.
A duplication bug is to be expected in 1997. A duplication bug is kind of sad in 2021.
A new player getting pwned in a nOObie zone is to be expected in 1997. A new player getting pwned in a nOObie zone is sad in 2021.
I say that as a somewhat fan of NW (it has several merits).
Dont you dare bring common sense and logic into this ..
Jesus, some people here can't really handle when their precious games are even so slightly "attacked". Still amazes me.
And in this case, it's even more amusing... it's the pot calling the kettle black
Some hard facts about UO...
I was in the beta... that was in 1996 !
And of course played at launch. As a huge fan of the single player Ultima CRPGs, I was waiting for such a game since a very long time.
The game was a mess, the NW launch is totally bug free in comparison.
Lag, rubber-banding, exploits, dupes, you had it all.
And that lasted for months.
When they introduced housing, it was a mess all over again.
I love the game, it's definitely a milestone, but I don't wear rose colored glasses and I was there, so you can't fool me. At first, the game was barely playable. One of the few other MMORPGs that was in such bad state at release was Anarchy Online.
I don't doubt your experience here; however, comparing a launch in 1997 with what a launch should be 25 years later is a bit odd.
A duplication bug is to be expected in 1997. A duplication bug is kind of sad in 2021.
A new player getting pwned in a nOObie zone is to be expected in 1997. A new player getting pwned in a nOObie zone is sad in 2021.
I say that as a somewhat fan of NW (it has several merits).
I'm not the one who started those comparisons, I just mentioned why UO had to patch in Trammel back then, nothing more. I didn't even mention NW in this thread before the post you've just quoted, actually (you can double check).
Just reminding the audience that it wasn't all rainbows and pink unicorns back then. Some people, wearing super thick rose glasses, try to make us believe that UO was all about perfection and polished gameplay, and that couldn't be farther from truth. Unplayable at release, that's the truth.
And I don't remember a new player getting pwned in a noobie zone in NW unless he activates his PvP flag, but then it's his bad
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Jesus, some people here can't really handle when their precious games are even so slightly "attacked". Still amazes me.
And in this case, it's even more amusing... it's the pot calling the kettle black
Some hard facts about UO...
I was in the beta... that was in 1996 !
And of course played at launch. As a huge fan of the single player Ultima CRPGs, I was waiting for such a game since a very long time.
The game was a mess, the NW launch is totally bug free in comparison.
Lag, rubber-banding, exploits, dupes, you had it all.
And that lasted for months.
When they introduced housing, it was a mess all over again.
I love the game, it's definitely a milestone, but I don't wear rose colored glasses and I was there, so you can't fool me. At first, the game was barely playable. One of the few other MMORPGs that was in such bad state at release was Anarchy Online.
I don't doubt your experience here; however, comparing a launch in 1997 with what a launch should be 25 years later is a bit odd.
A duplication bug is to be expected in 1997. A duplication bug is kind of sad in 2021.
A new player getting pwned in a nOObie zone is to be expected in 1997. A new player getting pwned in a nOObie zone is sad in 2021.
I say that as a somewhat fan of NW (it has several merits).
I'm not the one who started those comparisons, I just mentioned why UO had to patch in Trammel back then, nothing more. I didn't even mention NW in this thread before the post you've just quoted, actually (you can double check).
Just reminding the audience that it wasn't all rainbows and pink unicorns back then. Some people, wearing super thick rose glasses, try to make us believe that UO was all about perfection and polished gameplay, and that couldn't be farther from truth. Unplayable at release, that's the truth.
And I don't remember a new player getting pwned in a noobie zone in NW unless he activates his PvP flag, but then it's his bad
Lol really .. telling us NW had the best skill system since UO and AC ring a bell etc .. i will pull it up for if you wish .. Also the factions systems .. If you recal thats when you melted down and got banned then Deleted your acct .. Its still there would like me to pull it for you ..
Show me a single quote or thread where i ever said anyhting even remotley close to this
"was all about perfection and polished gameplay"
You cant .. this i know .. Never said anyhting like that .. I know UO far to well and point out its flaws all the time
More BS from you it oozes from you with key you touch ...
Proof trying to categorize what might attract the most attention in a group of people is largely a crap shoot.
In the past, long ago now, such a thread would have been locked day one, because it's obvious trolling under the category of "baiting". But nowadays, that's the bulk of the pathetic content of this forum.
It still serves a purpose though... it proved that some of the usual suspects, those who usually bash all the games they happen to dislike and go on a crusade against them, are reacting exactly the same way when some bad facts (and not just opinion, I mean undeniable facts) are posted about their fetish game.
Pot. Kettle. Black. Thanks to Delete for that, at least.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Proof trying to categorize what might attract the most attention in a group of people is largely a crap shoot.
In the past, long ago now, such a thread would have been locked day one, because it's obvious trolling under the category of "baiting". But nowadays, that's the bulk of the pathetic content of this forum.
It still serves a purpose though... it proved that some of the usual suspects, those who usually bash all the games they happen to dislike and go on a crusade against them, are reacting exactly the same way when some bad facts (and not just opinion, I mean undeniable facts) are posted about their fetish game.
Pot. Kettle. Black. Thanks to Delete for that, at least.
you would not know facts if the jumped up and slapped you ..
everything i said above is you .. spouting out false info like they are no ones business ..
Would you like me to pull them up for you .. I know you think you Deleted yourself .. But its all there for us to review thru quotes..
quite an interesting lesson in watching someone wreck themselves on the internet
Well a Sim World, like Second Life made 600 million USD GDP.
So .... some people must really like that non-violent care bear stuff.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I don't think UO would have died without Trammel, which in my opinion, was one of the least desirable ways to handle the PK problem.
What is clear, is something had to be done and I would have preferred a solution that kept the world unified but significantly reigned in the PKS. Any number of creative options were suggested but perhaps there were technical limitations.
I would have dialed up the role of the virtue shrines in the lore such that to keep your 700 skill points you had to remain in favor with all 7 shrines. Losing favor with the shrines would cull your skill points, making you a weaker threat.
I would have also ramped up the bounty hunting system, eliminated fast travel for PKs, and other options while at the same time creating 'Pirate Islands' where lawlessness could run its course.
The problem was, and still is, asshats exploiting the "criminal flagging" system. Something neither Darkfail nor Mortfail Online (I and II) ever understood.
One example... people would go stand in the AOE of other people to bypass the flagging system. That was true in UO, in Darkfall too. But that's only the most obvious way to do it. Hell, people even found way to get people PvP flagged on WoW servers so they could attack them !
The main problem is not really PvP. It's asshats who will, no matter what, cheat, exploit, abuse.
Rise of Agon made some changes to their version of Darkall in that regard. While not perfect I think it was a lot better than the original.
Now there is a 3 way flagging system, but instead of making you exempt from being attacked, it makes you exempt from attacking other blues.
So for example if you were flagged as safe, or whatever it's called, you would never be able to hit a blue, but you could hit reds. This means you could never accidentally be flagged as safe to kill.
If you are flagged in the second stage it means you are unable to attack blues, but you are able to attack other flagged players and red players.
Then the red flag means you are wanting to be able to attack anyone at any time.
If you pick the red flag and kill a blue you are stuck in red flag until you pay money at these remote locations.
See the difference between this and any other Game mentioned inthis thread and the actual spirit of it
That's kind of why I tossed out Second Life, it was not getting any love, for being a successful non-competitive care bear game, to show that, there are some people that like that.
Not me mind you, but some people.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Jesus, some people here can't really handle when their precious games are even so slightly "attacked". Still amazes me.
And in this case, it's even more amusing... it's the pot calling the kettle black
Some hard facts about UO...
I was in the beta... that was in 1996 !
And of course played at launch. As a huge fan of the single player Ultima CRPGs, I was waiting for such a game since a very long time.
The game was a mess, the NW launch is totally bug free in comparison.
Lag, rubber-banding, exploits, dupes, you had it all.
And that lasted for months.
When they introduced housing, it was a mess all over again.
I love the game, it's definitely a milestone, but I don't wear rose colored glasses and I was there, so you can't fool me. At first, the game was barely playable. One of the few other MMORPGs that was in such bad state at release was Anarchy Online.
(I stared playing UO on it's first day of release.)
Yeah, it had problems. But I think we need to look at the big picture here. UO was the first really massive MMO. There were a lot of issues because of that. Unknown or unexpected issues. Then there was the fact that UO was so deep and wide of scope in its systems. No other MMO has ever been as rich as UO in the numbers and depths of its systems, even up to today. (Although some specific systems have been deeper on their own, probably, depending on opinion.)
UO, in my mind, blows other MMORPGs out of the water, from day one of their launch to today. Its biggest flaw was the abusive Players. You are right about Trammel. But what a shame because they were very close to a workable Justice System right before EA made them add Trammel. An even bigger shame is that they didn't have such a Justice System (that they were close to) from the start. I've always felt that the entire MMO industry would be very different if they had.
I felt so strongly about that that I once burnt Raph Koster's mini-effigy in my back yard. I don't know if he felt it or not.
I want a PvE experience where I can grind mobs viably and maybe do some quests and not worry about PvP but have a 80% of all xp penalty for dieing to a PvE monster. Therefore I'm not a carebear.
Hmm lets see how this game turns out. Oh wait I seen this before. People putting in tons of hours killing extremely weak mobs over and over that are way way below there level. The mobs are so weak that they can just sit there and let them attack them for 30 minutes while taking no damage. This way there is zero chance of death if disconnected, lagged, glitched or bugged.
You think many people are going to be doing any difficult content if they know they will lose 80% of their total XP on death. By its very definition it means you wont be doing any challenging content at or above your capabilities. Because killing 1 mob would have more than a 50% chance to set you back 80% therefore it would be impossible to level this way. You would be at level zero perpetually if you tried to challenge yourself.
Comments
I was in the beta... that was in 1996 !
As a huge fan of the single player Ultima CRPGs, I was waiting for such a game since a very long time.
I love the game, it's definitely a milestone, but I don't wear rose colored glasses and I was there, so you can't fool me. At first, the game was barely playable. One of the few other MMORPGs that was in such bad state at release was Anarchy Online.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Some people, wearing super thick rose glasses, try to make us believe that UO was all about perfection and polished gameplay, and that couldn't be farther from truth. Unplayable at release, that's the truth.
And I don't remember a new player getting pwned in a noobie zone in NW unless he activates his PvP flag, but then it's his bad
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Proof trying to categorize what might attract the most attention in a group of people is largely a crap shoot.
In the past, long ago now, such a thread would have been locked day one, because it's obvious trolling under the category of "baiting".
But nowadays, that's the bulk of the pathetic content of this forum.
Pot. Kettle. Black. Thanks to Delete for that, at least.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Im still there .. Having fun .. Great Server
So .... some people must really like that non-violent care bear stuff.
Now there is a 3 way flagging system, but instead of making you exempt from being attacked, it makes you exempt from attacking other blues.
So for example if you were flagged as safe, or whatever it's called, you would never be able to hit a blue, but you could hit reds. This means you could never accidentally be flagged as safe to kill.
If you are flagged in the second stage it means you are unable to attack blues, but you are able to attack other flagged players and red players.
Then the red flag means you are wanting to be able to attack anyone at any time.
If you pick the red flag and kill a blue you are stuck in red flag until you pay money at these remote locations.
Not me mind you, but some people.
Nah, they abused an exploit to beat the raid boss. Don't cross the streams my ass.
Yeah, it had problems. But I think we need to look at the big picture here.
UO was the first really massive MMO. There were a lot of issues because of that.
Unknown or unexpected issues.
Then there was the fact that UO was so deep and wide of scope in its systems.
No other MMO has ever been as rich as UO in the numbers and depths of its systems, even up to today.
(Although some specific systems have been deeper on their own, probably, depending on opinion.)
UO, in my mind, blows other MMORPGs out of the water, from day one of their launch to today.
Its biggest flaw was the abusive Players. You are right about Trammel. But what a shame because they were very close to a workable Justice System right before EA made them add Trammel.
An even bigger shame is that they didn't have such a Justice System (that they were close to) from the start.
I've always felt that the entire MMO industry would be very different if they had.
I felt so strongly about that that I once burnt Raph Koster's mini-effigy in my back yard.
I don't know if he felt it or not.
Once upon a time....
You think many people are going to be doing any difficult content if they know they will lose 80% of their total XP on death. By its very definition it means you wont be doing any challenging content at or above your capabilities. Because killing 1 mob would have more than a 50% chance to set you back 80% therefore it would be impossible to level this way. You would be at level zero perpetually if you tried to challenge yourself.
So yeah this is definition of carebear to me.