Everquest had Sony backing it. This game is struggling to get funding. I don't think it is a scam but it may fail that is for sure.
Well, didn't they just raise 2.4 mil? I think they said that was 50% of what they had already received. So that's about $4.8mil so far, if that info is correct.
EQ cost 8mil (1999) and 3yrs to develop. Using an inflation calculator, that would be equal to $15mil (2022). So it does seem like that are a bit short.
Wow cost 63mil (2004), $113mil (2022)
There was an interview with EQ2's producer Andy Sites where he was quoted in a PCZone interview stating that it was 3 million to develop EQ.
WoW is listed at around 200 Million for development. (edit: Correction, this is operating cost, not development cost, as was previously stated, 63 million appears to be the development cost for WoW).
So that is almost a 1/3 of your original estimate, which if refactored according to your estimate would put them over budget and far behind.
Everquest had Sony backing it. This game is struggling to get funding. I don't think it is a scam but it may fail that is for sure.
Well, didn't they just raise 2.4 mil? I think they said that was 50% of what they had already received. So that's about $4.8mil so far, if that info is correct.
EQ cost 8mil (1999) and 3yrs to develop. Using an inflation calculator, that would be equal to $15mil (2022). So it does seem like that are a bit short.
Wow cost 63mil (2004), $113mil (2022)
There was an interview with EQ2's producer Andy Sites where he was quoted in a PCZone interview stating that it was 3 million to develop EQ.
The real question for me is if it is an intentional scam or merely a scam of incompetency.
Let us not forget...
EQ took how long to make? (3 years I think Brad had mentioned, with around 11 people) From scratch, with much less "helper" technology (ie pre-set development kits, streamlined languages and libraries, tools, historical knowledge to pull from, etc...).
Apparently with all todays modern ability, we are left to believe that it should take this long to complete such a venture?
Where are they? Pre-Alpha... still?
hmm...
Everquest had Sony backing it. This game is struggling to get funding. I don't think it is a scam but it may fail that is for sure.
Still, the team was around 11 people or so, and the budget If I remember right Brad mentioned was around 3 million or so.
Point is, this was during a time where fancy development tools and libraries did not exist for games of this nature. Network technology was greatly limited in throughput and functionality, hardware space was limited, and graphical processing for 3D technology was in its adolescent years (which created numerous hurdles for them in development).
On top of that, there was no history of development to pull from, no experienced people who had worked on such projects, no lessons already learned, and pitfalls to avoid with such knowledge.
Now to be fair, EQ was nowhere near as complex as the many systems in games today, but... that is where a lot of these development tools, libraries, etc... step in which streamlines a lot of the process so you don't have to create everything from scratch and test to see if it would even work.
Again, how many years and they are not even in Alpha yet?
I think if EQ took this long to develop, it would have never been released.
I agree about the time and cost. But complexity, I have some questions.
The complexity only appears to be apparent in the improved graphics and graphics effects provided by newer graphics cards. That does take a massive amount of effort. Maybe one way to cut this down to scale is to produce the functional game without the fancy shadows, water effects and other goodies and plan to introduce them as planned updates to the game/game engine.
As for network code, I'm not entirely sure that networks are more complex than they were 20 years ago. Maybe someone can enlightened me on what has changed over the past decade to make networking code more difficult in games.
Game systems and mechanics -- well, EQ1 had some pretty elaborate systems. A lot of systems were buried in the combat mechanics and weren't really understood by the players for years. Dodging, Armor Hard and Soft Caps, etc. Some of these changed over the years without causing major disruption to the existing game. I just don't see newer games with such robust game systems today.
So, I really don't see complexity being a major contributor to the reason why cost and time to develop have increased. Tools and salaries contribute to the cost side, everyone wants to get paid. Inflation happens. EQ1's believed development of $3 million and 3 years for 11 people comes to around $91k per man-year (that includes hardware costs and software costs). Shouldn't newer tools and experience have improved the time taken on the development side?
Bottom line -- games are taking longer to create and cost more whatever the cause. That's just not an ideal situation for aging players.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The real question for me is if it is an intentional scam or merely a scam of incompetency.
Let us not forget...
EQ took how long to make? (3 years I think Brad had mentioned, with around 11 people) From scratch, with much less "helper" technology (ie pre-set development kits, streamlined languages and libraries, tools, historical knowledge to pull from, etc...).
Apparently with all todays modern ability, we are left to believe that it should take this long to complete such a venture?
Where are they? Pre-Alpha... still?
hmm...
Everquest had Sony backing it. This game is struggling to get funding. I don't think it is a scam but it may fail that is for sure.
Still, the team was around 11 people or so, and the budget If I remember right Brad mentioned was around 3 million or so.
Point is, this was during a time where fancy development tools and libraries did not exist for games of this nature. Network technology was greatly limited in throughput and functionality, hardware space was limited, and graphical processing for 3D technology was in its adolescent years (which created numerous hurdles for them in development).
On top of that, there was no history of development to pull from, no experienced people who had worked on such projects, no lessons already learned, and pitfalls to avoid with such knowledge.
Now to be fair, EQ was nowhere near as complex as the many systems in games today, but... that is where a lot of these development tools, libraries, etc... step in which streamlines a lot of the process so you don't have to create everything from scratch and test to see if it would even work.
Again, how many years and they are not even in Alpha yet?
I think if EQ took this long to develop, it would have never been released.
I agree about the time and cost. But complexity, I have some questions.
The complexity only appears to be apparent in the improved graphics and graphics effects provided by newer graphics cards. That does take a massive amount of effort. Maybe one way to cut this down to scale is to produce the functional game without the fancy shadows, water effects and other goodies and plan to introduce them as planned updates to the game/game engine.
As for network code, I'm not entirely sure that networks are more complex than they were 20 years ago. Maybe someone can enlightened me on what has changed over the past decade to make networking code more difficult in games.
Game systems and mechanics -- well, EQ1 had some pretty elaborate systems. A lot of systems were buried in the combat mechanics and weren't really understood by the players for years. Dodging, Armor Hard and Soft Caps, etc. Some of these changed over the years without causing major disruption to the existing game. I just don't see newer games with such robust game systems today.
So, I really don't see complexity being a major contributor to the reason why cost and time to develop have increased. Tools and salaries contribute to the cost side, everyone wants to get paid. Inflation happens. EQ1's believed development of $3 million and 3 years for 11 people comes to around $91k per man-year (that includes hardware costs and software costs). Shouldn't newer tools and experience have improved the time taken on the development side?
Bottom line -- games are taking longer to create and cost more whatever the cause. That's just not an ideal situation for aging players.
Waiting on graphical systems and getting the basic game with all its functionality out, I agree would have been better, but they seemed to think that graphics were extremely important, which in my opinion hints at attending more to things that do not make or break the game. When they started the venture, many supporters seemed to echo the position that game play mechanics were far more important than flashy graphics. In fact, without them, the game would have never gotten off the ground. The first iteration of game back around right after the Kickstarter failure was not appreciated by anyone but the fans.
As for network, it is a combination of bandwidth and technology. Back then we were running dialup (unless you were pushing an ISDN which was pretty expensive). Also, you have a lot of improvements over the years concerning routing and switching technology which greatly improve performance and plays a larger role in your internal infrastructure design.
Interesting setups using VM's and various server tech that would provide them with numerous options with Pantheon (Brad spoke about this at one point concerning dealing with people wanting different server configuration styles of alternating rulesets.
Server, Database, and Network Infrastructure have improved quite a bit over the years. Switches alone are a completely different world from back then and the concept of integrating each of those techs in layers within each other has become a science of its own.
So I would say it is a lot more complicated in the function of those techs, but... at the same time, those techs have become a lot more user friendly in setting up and configuring, so I guess there is a bit of a trade off.
As for the tools, the IDEs are extremely powerful with a slew of aides that increase efficiency, and take out a lot of the leg work. The libraries already have a lot of the designs available for various needs. What used to require a developer to have to get their hands dirty writing low level calls for some custom need, often are now available and ready for use depending on need.
There are times where these default tools may not be sufficient for certain needs (as I think they found out they could not simply design the game on Unity basic libraries alone), they had to do some custom work and that can complicate and take time, but like I said, today, there are so many tools and tech that simplify this process, it isn't a completely legitimate excuse.
two sources I've found list World of Warcraft as 63 million. That's 99,389,920.59 in today's cost.
Whether they are correct or not is another thing entirely.
You are both correct, I missed that one part when I was scanning through ( the article was misleading in that it focused on cost to make, but in the WoW link, it specifically only referred to operating costs.
Everquest had Sony backing it. This game is struggling to get funding. I don't think it is a scam but it may fail that is for sure.
Well, didn't they just raise 2.4 mil? I think they said that was 50% of what they had already received. So that's about $4.8mil so far, if that info is correct.
EQ cost 8mil (1999) and 3yrs to develop. Using an inflation calculator, that would be equal to $15mil (2022). So it does seem like that are a bit short.
Wow cost 63mil (2004), $113mil (2022)
Embers Adrift team managed to raise $4.8M overall? If so, that might be the most impressive thing about their efforts.
LOL no I was talking Pantheon that got $4.8 mil. But that's just off something I vaguely remember.
I seriously doubt Embers even got anywhere near this number.
Maybe Dev teams need a real Gamer with authority in its production crew. Sure some devs might have some game developing experience, but with games taking 10 years to build, how many games can these devs really have experience in making?
For any given solution they might have seen a few different versions of the solution?
Whereas a gamer who played 100 games during that same timeframe has seen dozens or more different solutions.
The game devs think they are creating some really awesome brand new technology mechanic, taking 5-10 years to develop, just to find out another game has a better version already built. If they would have just copied that better version, it could have been reengineered in a couple of months.
A Dev/Gamer could direct the devs to the best version of what they are working on, to save time.
For example, want a good infinite inventory storage solution - take a look at ESO crafting bag. want a good economy - take a look at UO/SWG economy want a good auction house - WoW has a good version want a good loot system - take a look at Diablo(1,2,3) loot
This way they are not developing 1000's of systems from scratch. Then they can focus on just a small number of truly unique MMO systems, copy the rest. Seems like common sense, but wouldn't surprise me they were not doing this.
The real question for me is if it is an intentional scam or merely a scam of incompetency.
Let us not forget...
EQ took how long to make? (3 years I think Brad had mentioned, with around 11 people) From scratch, with much less "helper" technology (ie pre-set development kits, streamlined languages and libraries, tools, historical knowledge to pull from, etc...).
Apparently with all todays modern ability, we are left to believe that it should take this long to complete such a venture?
Where are they? Pre-Alpha... still?
hmm...
Exactly. One of the big issues with EQ was the netcode. My understanding was that there was no existing netcode for a game like EQ so they were making it up as they went along and yet they still created EQ in 3 years with a tiny team and fairly limited funds. I just don't buy the argument that it takes this long and especially when you are not making a bleeding edge technology game (a game like Star Citizen can at least make that claim).
I don't think this is an intentional scam I have just lost faith that the game will actually be completed in any reasonable time (too late for that) and in a state that would be considered "good".
Everquest had Sony backing it. This game is struggling to get funding. I don't think it is a scam but it may fail that is for sure.
Well, didn't they just raise 2.4 mil? I think they said that was 50% of what they had already received. So that's about $4.8mil so far, if that info is correct.
EQ cost 8mil (1999) and 3yrs to develop. Using an inflation calculator, that would be equal to $15mil (2022). So it does seem like that are a bit short.
Wow cost 63mil (2004), $113mil (2022)
Embers Adrift team managed to raise $4.8M overall? If so, that might be the most impressive thing about their efforts.
LOL no I was talking Pantheon that got $4.8 mil. But that's just off something I vaguely remember.
I seriously doubt Embers even got anywhere near this number.
Ahh, yes, Pantheon announced $2.4M in series A funding, bringing their investor raised totals to $5.34M.
This is not counting any crowd funding which they haven't shared that amount to date.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Waiting on graphical systems and getting the basic game with all its functionality out, I agree would have been better, but they seemed to think that graphics were extremely important, which in my opinion hints at attending more to things that do not make or break the game. When they started the venture, many supporters seemed to echo the position that game play mechanics were far more important than flashy graphics. In fact, without them, the game would have never gotten off the ground. The first iteration of game back around right after the Kickstarter failure was not appreciated by anyone but the fans.
As for network, it is a combination of bandwidth and technology. Back then we were running dialup (unless you were pushing an ISDN which was pretty expensive). Also, you have a lot of improvements over the years concerning routing and switching technology which greatly improve performance and plays a larger role in your internal infrastructure design.
Interesting setups using VM's and various server tech that would provide them with numerous options with Pantheon (Brad spoke about this at one point concerning dealing with people wanting different server configuration styles of alternating rulesets.
Server, Database, and Network Infrastructure have improved quite a bit over the years. Switches alone are a completely different world from back then and the concept of integrating each of those techs in layers within each other has become a science of its own.
So I would say it is a lot more complicated in the function of those techs, but... at the same time, those techs have become a lot more user friendly in setting up and configuring, so I guess there is a bit of a trade off.
As for the tools, the IDEs are extremely powerful with a slew of aides that increase efficiency, and take out a lot of the leg work. The libraries already have a lot of the designs available for various needs. What used to require a developer to have to get their hands dirty writing low level calls for some custom need, often are now available and ready for use depending on need.
There are times where these default tools may not be sufficient for certain needs (as I think they found out they could not simply design the game on Unity basic libraries alone), they had to do some custom work and that can complicate and take time, but like I said, today, there are so many tools and tech that simplify this process, it isn't a completely legitimate excuse.
When I think of 'tools', I include IDE libraries in that broad category. Most of the 'stand-alone tools' tend to be graphical development and animation tools. Sure, IDEs have simplified the task of doing low level calls, but I have to question how well some (not all) development teams know, understand, and use their IDE of choice. Maybe the IDEs aren't as simple to use as promoted?
As far as networking, I agree the base technology has improved. But not the uses. A database call is still a database call. Reading and writing to a communications network still has the same basic operational necessities. The networks tend to be faster and more secure, but how has that impacted the game programmer? More code to go faster doesn't make sense to me.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
When I think of 'tools', I include IDE libraries in that broad category. Most of the 'stand-alone tools' tend to be graphical development and animation tools. Sure, IDEs have simplified the task of doing low level calls, but I have to question how well some (not all) development teams know, understand, and use their IDE of choice. Maybe the IDEs aren't as simple to use as promoted?
As far as networking, I agree the base technology has improved. But not the uses. A database call is still a database call. Reading and writing to a communications network still has the same basic operational necessities. The networks tend to be faster and more secure, but how has that impacted the game programmer? More code to go faster doesn't make sense to me.
Well, it may be as you say, that they aren't using the power of their tools.
As for networking, like I said, you have Virtual machines, database clustering, complex switching setups, etc.. that work directly with the MMOs design to handle multiple instancing and load balancing.
Networking setups and functions are much more integrated into other systems than they used to be decades ago. Far more complex in their setup and function.
I have far too little insight into what they're doing to even start to theorize why they havent released something yet. Either way when you see the heaps of money that Star Citizen makes with their alpha version of the game you cant help but wonder that Pantheons finances would be no issue if people just could play the alpha version already.
100% vaporware. Never going to launch and when it does it will be already 10 years old and outdated. This has been talked about since before 2014. Lol.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
100% vaporware. Never going to launch and when it does it will be already 10 years old and outdated. This has been talked about since before 2014. Lol.
What many miss is that this game has been built from the ground up 3 times now. The current production with updated engine and other systems that make this game more modern is only about 2.5 years into the current production and has the tools to make Pantheon look as good and modern as any MMO out now. Their problem is they only have something like 15 people working on the game. They are currently trying to find investors to speed up production. At the current staff production we are 30 years from launch =-) If they get an investor or a studio picks them up. We could see this project in a timely manner. Right now this project is being supported by some very dedicated staff that have some real heart into this project. I would not underestimate them or their determination. None the less this game is a total hail marry.
100% vaporware. Never going to launch and when it does it will be already 10 years old and outdated. This has been talked about since before 2014. Lol.
If it launches then it wouldn't be "100% vaporware."
I'm doubting it will launch but I don't care if it's "outdated." Heck, I'm counting on it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
... and why the hell do they keep restarting production and come up with such stupid ideas such as "the alpha version has to already look perfect", anyway ?
Star Citizen isnt doing that either and they're swimming in money.
... and why the hell do they keep restarting production and come up with such stupid ideas such as "the alpha version has to already look perfect", anyway ?
Star Citizen isnt doing that either and they're swimming in money.
This is as much the fans fault as it is VR Studio. WE kept giving them money without asking who was running the business. The staff at VR at the start had people in charge that had no experience at running a business. Many mistakes were made and eventually they had people hired that knew how to run a game company.
One big mistake was that they were hard coding all of the game. Very timely and tedious way to make a game. The latest iteration of the game that needed VR to rebuild the world graphicly from the ground up (they were able to import the maps in grey box only) was to add world builder tools, that let VR build the game 100 x faster. The progress they have made over the past 2.5 years is more then they have done in all the years prior.
Also, Star Citizen is not a game to be held up as a good example for many reasons.
... and why the hell do they keep restarting production and come up with such stupid ideas such as "the alpha version has to already look perfect", anyway ?
Star Citizen isnt doing that either and they're swimming in money.
The first time was after their kickstarter failed. People left the project and they had to get a new team and start over.
I think the second time was after Brad left. As Nanfoodle has said, they were hardcoding the game which apparently isn't the way to do it. I suspect that creating systems that could be used for all aspects of the game as opposed to creating encounters per area or whatever they were doing wasn't a good way to work.
I can't say if a solid "3rd time" happened but I do know they were using separate skeletons for their characters/npc's and it meant they had to adapt each bit of armor/weaponry separately.
I do know that they created "one" skeleton for characters and implemented tools that make creating characters/classes easier.
I'm not clear why this wasn't done before. It's possible that they just made things as they were used to in "Sê unornlic dæghwîl" or "the old days" and didn't really adapt to how modern games were made.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
... and why the hell do they keep restarting production and come up with such stupid ideas such as "the alpha version has to already look perfect", anyway ?
Star Citizen isnt doing that either and they're swimming in money.
The first time was after their kickstarter failed. People left the project and they had to get a new team and start over.
I think the second time was after Brad left. As Nanfoodle has said, they were hardcoding the game which apparently isn't the way to do it. I suspect that creating systems that could be used for all aspects of the game as opposed to creating encounters per area or whatever they were doing wasn't a good way to work.
I can't say if a solid "3rd time" happened but I do know they were using separate skeletons for their characters/npc's and it meant they had to adapt each bit of armor/weaponry separately.
I do know that they created "one" skeleton for characters and implemented tools that make creating characters/classes easier.
I'm not clear why this wasn't done before. It's possible that they just made things as they were used to in "Sê unornlic dæghwîl" or "the old days" and didn't really adapt to how modern games were made.
Sounds a bit like they are borrowing the Role-Playing a Development Team thing from Caspien and CoE. Let's do a lot of work to make things easier and then scrap it and do other things to make it easier... and then scrap that and...
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It's not a scam and it's not vaporware. They obviously have a game and you can watch hours of people playing it.
It's the poster child for crowd funded development hell. From Brad McQuaid passing away, to remaking the game multiple times, to funding issues, to poor ideas, slow progress, mismanagement, wasted time... the list goes on.
It's evident just by watching those streams and videos that the quality, polish and progress reflects the problems that this games development has been riddled with. It's been almost 10 years.
Personally this is exactly the type of game I want, a spiritual successor to EQ. I just find everything I'm seeing to range from either subpar to mediocre. I have no idea how people can drum up any level of excitement for this. I'm just left with, "That's it?" after anything involving Pantheon.
Back when this was announced I was excited and hopeful that they could make something within 6 or so years that would be better than EQ and Vanguard but would draw from those games. Now almost 10 years later seeing what they have and the progress they made is embarrassing and disheartening.
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It's not a scam and it's not vaporware. They obviously have a game and you can watch hours of people playing it.
It's the poster child for crowd funded development hell. From Brad McQuaid passing away, to remaking the game multiple times, to funding issues, to poor ideas, slow progress, mismanagement, wasted time... the list goes on.
It's evident just by watching those streams and videos that the quality, polish and progress reflects the problems that this games development has been riddled with. It's been almost 10 years.
Personally this is exactly the type of game I want, a spiritual successor to EQ. I just find everything I'm seeing to range from either subpar to mediocre. I have no idea how people can drum up any level of excitement for this. I'm just left with, "That's it?" after anything involving Pantheon.
Back when this was announced I was excited and hopeful that they could make something within 6 or so years that would be better than EQ and Vanguard but would draw from those games. Now almost 10 years later seeing what they have and the progress they made is embarrassing and disheartening.
This project is a 100% Hail Mary and I dont expect it to release unless they pull a Project Gorgaon. I am in the camp that if its just a Project 99, with a better engine and similar combat to class dynamics of EQ1. If they have enough content to make it worth playing (that from a guy that lost a year of my life to Lower Guk) I would 100% play and sub to this game.
Comments
https://kotaku.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-big-video-game-1501413649
I also remember Brad saying the same as well.
WoW is listed at around 200 Million for development. (edit: Correction, this is operating cost, not development cost, as was previously stated, 63 million appears to be the development cost for WoW).
So that is almost a 1/3 of your original estimate, which if refactored according to your estimate would put them over budget and far behind.
Whether they are correct or not is another thing entirely.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Waiting on graphical systems and getting the basic game with all its functionality out, I agree would have been better, but they seemed to think that graphics were extremely important, which in my opinion hints at attending more to things that do not make or break the game. When they started the venture, many supporters seemed to echo the position that game play mechanics were far more important than flashy graphics. In fact, without them, the game would have never gotten off the ground. The first iteration of game back around right after the Kickstarter failure was not appreciated by anyone but the fans.
As for network, it is a combination of bandwidth and technology. Back then we were running dialup (unless you were pushing an ISDN which was pretty expensive). Also, you have a lot of improvements over the years concerning routing and switching technology which greatly improve performance and plays a larger role in your internal infrastructure design.
Interesting setups using VM's and various server tech that would provide them with numerous options with Pantheon (Brad spoke about this at one point concerning dealing with people wanting different server configuration styles of alternating rulesets.
Server, Database, and Network Infrastructure have improved quite a bit over the years. Switches alone are a completely different world from back then and the concept of integrating each of those techs in layers within each other has become a science of its own.
So I would say it is a lot more complicated in the function of those techs, but... at the same time, those techs have become a lot more user friendly in setting up and configuring, so I guess there is a bit of a trade off.
As for the tools, the IDEs are extremely powerful with a slew of aides that increase efficiency, and take out a lot of the leg work. The libraries already have a lot of the designs available for various needs. What used to require a developer to have to get their hands dirty writing low level calls for some custom need, often are now available and ready for use depending on need.
There are times where these default tools may not be sufficient for certain needs (as I think they found out they could not simply design the game on Unity basic libraries alone), they had to do some custom work and that can complicate and take time, but like I said, today, there are so many tools and tech that simplify this process, it isn't a completely legitimate excuse.
My miss. Thanks for the correction.
LOL no I was talking Pantheon that got $4.8 mil. But that's just off something I vaguely remember.
I seriously doubt Embers even got anywhere near this number.
For any given solution they might have seen a few different versions of the solution?
Whereas a gamer who played 100 games during that same timeframe has seen dozens or more different solutions.
The game devs think they are creating some really awesome brand new technology mechanic, taking 5-10 years to develop, just to find out another game has a better version already built. If they would have just copied that better version, it could have been reengineered in a couple of months.
A Dev/Gamer could direct the devs to the best version of what they are working on, to save time.
For example,
want a good infinite inventory storage solution - take a look at ESO crafting bag.
want a good economy - take a look at UO/SWG economy
want a good auction house - WoW has a good version
want a good loot system - take a look at Diablo(1,2,3) loot
This way they are not developing 1000's of systems from scratch. Then they can focus on just a small number of truly unique MMO systems, copy the rest. Seems like common sense, but wouldn't surprise me they were not doing this.
I don't think this is an intentional scam I have just lost faith that the game will actually be completed in any reasonable time (too late for that) and in a state that would be considered "good".
This is not counting any crowd funding which they haven't shared that amount to date.
https://massivelyop.com/2022/07/21/pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen-lands-2-4m-in-funding-and-elaborates-on-its-death-mechanics/
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
As for networking, like I said, you have Virtual machines, database clustering, complex switching setups, etc.. that work directly with the MMOs design to handle multiple instancing and load balancing.
Networking setups and functions are much more integrated into other systems than they used to be decades ago. Far more complex in their setup and function.
I'm doubting it will launch but I don't care if it's "outdated." Heck, I'm counting on it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
One big mistake was that they were hard coding all of the game. Very timely and tedious way to make a game. The latest iteration of the game that needed VR to rebuild the world graphicly from the ground up (they were able to import the maps in grey box only) was to add world builder tools, that let VR build the game 100 x faster. The progress they have made over the past 2.5 years is more then they have done in all the years prior.
Also, Star Citizen is not a game to be held up as a good example for many reasons.
The first time was after their kickstarter failed. People left the project and they had to get a new team and start over.
I think the second time was after Brad left. As Nanfoodle has said, they were hardcoding the game which apparently isn't the way to do it. I suspect that creating systems that could be used for all aspects of the game as opposed to creating encounters per area or whatever they were doing wasn't a good way to work.
I can't say if a solid "3rd time" happened but I do know they were using separate skeletons for their characters/npc's and it meant they had to adapt each bit of armor/weaponry separately.
I do know that they created "one" skeleton for characters and implemented tools that make creating characters/classes easier.
I'm not clear why this wasn't done before. It's possible that they just made things as they were used to in "Sê unornlic dæghwîl" or "the old days" and didn't really adapt to how modern games were made.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's the poster child for crowd funded development hell. From Brad McQuaid passing away, to remaking the game multiple times, to funding issues, to poor ideas, slow progress, mismanagement, wasted time... the list goes on.
It's evident just by watching those streams and videos that the quality, polish and progress reflects the problems that this games development has been riddled with. It's been almost 10 years.
Personally this is exactly the type of game I want, a spiritual successor to EQ. I just find everything I'm seeing to range from either subpar to mediocre. I have no idea how people can drum up any level of excitement for this. I'm just left with, "That's it?" after anything involving Pantheon.
Back when this was announced I was excited and hopeful that they could make something within 6 or so years that would be better than EQ and Vanguard but would draw from those games. Now almost 10 years later seeing what they have and the progress they made is embarrassing and disheartening.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/As if there was a formula to simply pump out cool mmorpgs every X years...
My ExCitMeNt iS DyiNg bEcAusE iT hArD tO wAit fOr a ViDeo GaMe