i dont think that sodom and gomorah howver it is spelled was destroyed because people were gay, i think it was destroyed for hedonism and the mass sex that was practiced for self pleasure and self gluttony without love to a significant other, ok that said, marriage is a bond between 2 people, as long as there is love between the 2 people regardless of race, sex ect, then it does not color outside the lines of a religous coloring book, what cleary is looked down upon by most religions, is the superior love of yerself and yerself alone that all pleasure is for you and to use yourself vainly and indulge in pleasure to the point it makes you a swine, then yes that is wrong because that makes you selfish, and selfishness is naturually wrong with or with out religion, so i see no reason why ssm's are wrong, they are not having huge city orgies, or eating then puking to eat more, or anything like that, they are loving eachother, and as it may be, there is scientific evidence..FACTS.. that people whom are gay or les do infact act uncontroably to the sex pheromones of the same sex, this has been testyed and it is factual, i think people are looking into religion too much, wayyyyy too much, the basic laws of religions are basically good for all mankind, the basic laws of religions all say basically the same thing, the laws or commandments if you will, or even 7 deadly sins does not say a damned thing about homo's or lezz's
btw im str8, married and have a kid, i could truly bash all the priests that were having friendly relations with alter boys but im catholic and say turn the other cheek....no pun intended
OK ok sorry for another post but is it illegal for a gay man to marry a str8 lady, or a lesbian to marry a str8 man? had to throw a twist too all this seriousness hehe.
Originally posted by boognish75 OK ok sorry for another post but is it illegal for a gay man to marry a str8 lady, or a lesbian to marry a str8 man? had to throw a twist too all this seriousness hehe.
a homosexual man wouldn't marry a straigth woman in the first place, just like a lesbian would not marry a straigth man either.
Originally posted by naldric Originally posted by OneMuslim to be honest, i don't care whether people quit being gay
Tomorrow i m gonna quit being straight, must say bye bye to my wife, must tell her " hey girl, sorry but, i decided i m gay now" lol
and those topic highjacks must stop...
Back on topic, I m not a US citizen so i dont think i should really post in it, but i m gonna give my opinion anyway... i really think all the governements that start mixing religion and politics are doomed, and i really think that anybody should be able to marry anybody they want, and if the governement gave special benefits to those married ppl, then it must take all the tax benefits out of itl... marriage is not sacred anymore (if it ever was) ppl marry, divorce, remarry and redivorce, they just marry to get those benefits... tell me, is that faith or capitalism?
Sometimes it takes someone standing on the outside to point out inconsistencies to the people all in the middle of something. To that extent you have every right to participate.
If I were European or Canadian or whatever, I would start by pointing out how hypocritical it is to call yourself a country that holds the pursuit of happiness and equality as two of your countries convictions, yet then you legally treat one persons pursuit of happiness as more justified than anothers.
Originally posted by Xexima I DONT UNDERSTAND! ARE PEOPLE JUST STUPID?
WE ARE DISCUSSING IF BANNING GAY MARRIAGE IS CONSTITUTIONAL UNDER THE UNITED STATES LAW!
WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL BRINGING RELIGION INTO THIS DISCUSSION? STOP BEING DUMBASSES!
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Marriage is a religious institution, so the government should not control it.
Please don't over-react. it were only 2 or 3 posts. cut some slack, we're not in a court here. your not forced to read it. I know its annoying, but bear with us.
The Boy Scouts is a private organization. They can do whatever they want. As long as they don't accept tax payer dollars then they can discriminate if they feel like it. I wouldn't let my child join them either and I would explain to him why.
But I back their right as a private organization to do whatever they please. As long as they don't infringe on mine. I'm not sure what you meant by posting that. Did I miss something?
Originally posted by porgie Yep, the article spells it out just as plain as it can be said. I can't believe that the Republican Party still has themselves fooled into thinking they are the party of small less intrusive government. The religious right has taken over the Republican party and I have a feeling they are going to drive it into the ground before they can realize what to do about it. Issues such as this may give them the impression that they are galvinizing American's on their side, but what they don't realize is that a lot of us are getting really sick of the religious right.
The religious rights views are anti-American.
If they want to get involved politically, I say we start taxing them.
" Traditionally, American conservatives believed that government power should be limited. Now, however, certain leaders of the "religious right" want the federal government to expand its power over our personal lives. They want to throttle lively debates about marriage going on in states and local communities across America. "
Yes. Religious groups are getting too political. They are forming lobby groups and they are telling their congregations how to vote in elections. It's time to start taxing them if they break the law. I don't understand why they're not taxed anyway.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Xexima I DONT UNDERSTAND! ARE PEOPLE JUST STUPID?
WE ARE DISCUSSING IF BANNING GAY MARRIAGE IS CONSTITUTIONAL UNDER THE UNITED STATES LAW!
WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL BRINGING RELIGION INTO THIS DISCUSSION? STOP BEING DUMBASSES!
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Marriage is a religious institution, so the government should not control it.
Please don't over-react. it were only 2 or 3 posts. cut some slack, we're not in a court here. your not forced to read it. I know its annoying, but bear with us.
I know, i just dont want to see a perfectly good thread go to waste because a few idiots are turning it into another religious/gay marriage bash thread.
For the record I believe marriage is a complete and total sham. In an age where backwoods trash like Brittney Spears can get a quickie marriage in Vegas and get divorced in the same week, or where celebrities marry, divorce and remarry each other as a publicity scheme, no one can seriously claim with a straight face that letting gays, who in all likelihood would be more likely to honor their vows, get married would somehow cheapen the 'sanctity' of marriage.
That being said... What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes is their own damned business, and no one elses. Period. Any arguements to the contrary, be they religious, moral, or otherwise are incorrect, ignorant, and inconsequential.
The religious organizations absolutely need to be paying taxes. Some back taxes wouldn't hurt either, as they've been meddeling in the political arena for some time now. If they don't like it, they can damn well go back to their churches, mosques, whatever, and shut the hell up.
And before someone posts about how seeing "fagz and dikez" holding hands makes them puke, it's no picnic watching White Trash Johnny and his brood mare make out in public either. Acting like a tactless pig in public isn't a trait exclusive to homosexuals.
And just to play devils advocate, the interesting thing is that gays, though not legally married, can often get coverage for their partners from their insurance, but I can't get coverage for my girlfriend from my insurance since we are not married.
I support gay marriage if it gets homos to quit whining.
Married people end up regretting being married, and these jackasses are fighting tooth and nail for the "right" to be married.
Corporal Klinger spent the entire Korean War wearing a dress trying to get out of the military, and these shmucks are trying to get in.
Let them join the army. Let them get married. They will be sorry they asked for it and hopefully it will get them to shut the hell up.
If they keep complaining after getting gay marriage, then I suggest lining them up against a wall and shooting them to spare us from having to listen to their neverending list of rights and grievances.
What if the government took away your right to join the army, or to get married...you'd be fighting "tooth and nail" to get those rights back wouldn't you?
I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people
Originally posted by fizzle322 I support gay marriage if it gets homos to quit whining.
Married people end up regretting being married, and these jackasses are fighting tooth and nail for the "right" to be married.
Corporal Klinger spent the entire Korean War wearing a dress trying to get out of the military, and these shmucks are trying to get in.
Let them join the army. Let them get married. They will be sorry they asked for it and hopefully it will get them to shut the hell up.
If they keep complaining after getting gay marriage, then I suggest lining them up against a wall and shooting them to spare us from having to listen to their neverending list of rights and grievances.
Did you miss your morning cartoons or something? Geez!
It sounds like you have more grievances than they do.
Not talking about the biased views of homosexuality (Even though I fully support gay rights), I really don't understand why the US Constitution, which was created to protect the people and guarentee freedoms, should be used to restrict the freedoms of a minority, just because the majority is ignorant. It just seems to be a disgrace to the meaning of our government, that everybody deserves rights that should not be restricted.
Originally posted by beethoven89 Not talking about the biased views of homosexuality (Even though I fully support gay rights), I really don't understand why the US Constitution, which was created to protect the people and guarentee freedoms, should be used to restrict the freedoms of a minority, just because the majority is ignorant. It just seems to be a disgrace to the meaning of our government, that everybody deserves rights that should not be restricted.
I'm confused. Are you for or against equal rights?
Originally posted by gnomexxx Originally posted by beethoven89 Not talking about the biased views of homosexuality (Even though I fully support gay rights ), I really don't understand why the US Constitution, which was created to protect the people and guarentee freedoms, should be used to restrict the freedoms of a minority, just because the majority is ignorant. It just seems to be a disgrace to the meaning of our government, that everybody deserves rights that should not be restricted.
I'm confused. Are you for or against equal rights?
I'm all for equal rights for homosexuals. I don't really see much of an arguement against gay rights that isn't heavily biased or ill-informed.
Dude why is eveybody so into anti gay marrige i mean just let it be big woo hoo 2 guys get married or 2 chicks get married..... omg god people like george bush r stupid
What is marriage anyway and what does it do? Ok so I heard there are tax benefits for married couples. What else?
If marriage is mainly just an official label for committed lovers, then I say do away with this pos. I mean two people can love each other and live together without having to be married right?
Originally posted by cryora What is marriage anyway and what does it do? Ok so I heard there are tax benefits for married couples. What else?
If marriage is mainly just an official label for committed lovers, then I say do away with this pos. I mean two people can love each other and live together without having to be married right?
Apart from the tax benefits: There is more, look at the gay ppl who died in 9/11, they had wills giving everything to their lovers, but they were challenged in court by the parents who hated their sons because they were gay and they won... i saw a documentary about it... they were treated like dogs.... they didnt get any help from the state, lost their lovers and lost everything else to parents who didnt talk to their sons for years....
Originally posted by gnomexxx Originally posted by porgie Yep, the article spells it out just as plain as it can be said. I can't believe that the Republican Party still has themselves fooled into thinking they are the party of small less intrusive government. The religious right has taken over the Republican party and I have a feeling they are going to drive it into the ground before they can realize what to do about it. Issues such as this may give them the impression that they are galvinizing American's on their side, but what they don't realize is that a lot of us are getting really sick of the religious right.
The religious rights views are anti-American.
If they want to get involved politically, I say we start taxing them.
" Traditionally, American conservatives believed that government power should be limited. Now, however, certain leaders of the "religious right" want the federal government to expand its power over our personal lives. They want to throttle lively debates about marriage going on in states and local communities across America. "
Yes. Religious groups are getting too political. They are forming lobby groups and they are telling their congregations how to vote in elections. It's time to start taxing them if they break the law. I don't understand why they're not taxed anyway.
It looks like the I.R.S. is starting to check into the church groups who step over the lines and start practicing politics. I don't understand why it has taken this long. If I were to break the law or a business I had did something wrong they'd be all over me in a heartbeat.
Do they not realize that we don't care about following their religious principles? Yet they keep up the bigotry.
The idiocy knows no boundries... who cares about any religion when making laws, when their own book stats Matthew 7:11 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged".
And i wonder when they are going to ban DIVORCE since "God has spoken very clearly on this issue" too...
The two underlined actually don't say anything about homosexuality, in my version of the Bible.
However, to give the other two verses context, in Leviticus, we are also told not to eat anything of the sea that does not have fin or scales. This means that eating lobster, oysters and other creatures that lack fins and scales (and are also from the sea) is a sin too, right?
The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (Corinthians 1) is a letter from Paul condemning their entire lifestyle, of which homosexuality was just one part. He equally condemns their drinking, drug-using, thieving, idolatry, fornication, swindlers, etc.
In any case, I don't agree with homosexuality. It is just another perversion, as far as I am concerned. Similiar in nature to BSDM, foot fetishes, rape fantasies (although not actually rape, that's a whole different subject), beasiality, voyuerism, etc. But then, what two consenting adults do is their business, as long as it's in the privacy of their own home.
I also don't agree with the religious condemnation of homosexuals. It's unfair, bigoted, narrowminded and above all, irrational. I despise people who don't apply rationality to their beliefs, whether religious or otherwise. If you examine the laws of Leviticus in context, you will see that they are guidelines for a healthy lifestyle amoung people ignorant of the true nature of disease, infection, bacteria and microorganisms. As such, they work very well. They are also a reaction to the perceived corruption of neighboring cultures and deserve to be treated as such.
My apologies for straying so far off topic, I felt the need for a rebuttal to an inaccurate statement.
On topic: Someone else said it perfectly - that marriage is a religious institution, and the goverment has no business regulating it. Marriage should be one option of civil unions. If two people decide to be life partners of whatever type, they should be able to apply for legal status as such.
----------------------------- Listen Asmodeeus, seven years ago, Ultima Online didn't even have those pathetic "quests" that you refer to or those "professions" of ninja, samurai, necromancer, and paladin. Nor did it have any of the neon crap, or bug mounts. It didn't even have any "combat moves." You turned on attack and jousted with simplistic swings. It was a better game then. if you can't guess why then just uninstall the thing and move along. - Crabby
The two underlined actually don't say anything about homosexuality, in my version of the Bible.
First one was the story about sodom & Gomorrah(The Genesis one), second one was obvious. Try reading the one in Romans again, it's not exactly subtle.
However, to give the other two verses context, in Leviticus, we are also told not to eat anything of the sea that does not have fin or scales. This means that eating lobster, oysters and other creatures that lack fins and scales (and are also from the sea) is a sin too, right?
No. When did it say it was a sin? I don't remember any punishment for eating it...Just telling them not to eat it. Homosexuality on the other hand...
The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (Corinthians 1) is a letter from Paul condemning their entire lifestyle, of which homosexuality was just one part. He equally condemns their drinking, drug-using, thieving, idolatry, fornication, swindlers, etc.
Yah, just one part that he blatantly mentions as one of the sins that would stop one from "inheriting the Kingdom of God".
In any case, I don't agree with homosexuality. It is just another perversion, as far as I am concerned. Similiar in nature to BSDM, foot fetishes, rape fantasies (although not actually rape, that's a whole different subject), beasiality, voyuerism, etc. But then, what two consenting adults do is their business, as long as it's in the privacy of their own home.
I also don't agree with the religious condemnation of homosexuals. It's unfair, bigoted, narrowminded and above all, irrational.
Isn't morality always unfair and irrational...
I despise people who don't apply rationality to their beliefs, whether religious or otherwise. If you examine the laws of Leviticus in context, you will see that they are guidelines for a healthy lifestyle amoung people ignorant of the true nature of disease, infection, bacteria and microorganisms. As such, they work very well. They are also a reaction to the perceived corruption of neighboring cultures and deserve to be treated as such.
And then you still got 1 Timothy, 1 Corinthians, and Romans...How you going to "rationalize" your way out of that condemnation of homosexuality?
My apologies for straying so far off topic, I felt the need for a rebuttal to an inaccurate statement.
On topic: Someone else said it perfectly - that marriage is a religious institution, and the goverment has no business regulating it. Marriage should be one option of civil unions. If two people decide to be life partners of whatever type, they should be able to apply for legal status as such.
Get government out of everything.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Comments
i dont think that sodom and gomorah howver it is spelled was destroyed because people were gay, i think it was destroyed for hedonism and the mass sex that was practiced for self pleasure and self gluttony without love to a significant other, ok that said, marriage is a bond between 2 people, as long as there is love between the 2 people regardless of race, sex ect, then it does not color outside the lines of a religous coloring book, what cleary is looked down upon by most religions, is the superior love of yerself and yerself alone that all pleasure is for you and to use yourself vainly and indulge in pleasure to the point it makes you a swine, then yes that is wrong because that makes you selfish, and selfishness is naturually wrong with or with out religion, so i see no reason why ssm's are wrong, they are not having huge city orgies, or eating then puking to eat more, or anything like that, they are loving eachother, and as it may be, there is scientific evidence..FACTS.. that people whom are gay or les do infact act uncontroably to the sex pheromones of the same sex, this has been testyed and it is factual, i think people are looking into religion too much, wayyyyy too much, the basic laws of religions are basically good for all mankind, the basic laws of religions all say basically the same thing, the laws or commandments if you will, or even 7 deadly sins does not say a damned thing about homo's or lezz's
btw im str8, married and have a kid, i could truly bash all the priests that were having friendly relations with alter boys but im catholic and say turn the other cheek....no pun intended
playing eq2 and two worlds
playing eq2 and two worlds
Tomorrow i m gonna quit being straight, must say bye bye to my wife, must tell her " hey girl, sorry but, i decided i m gay now" lol
and those topic highjacks must stop...
Back on topic, I m not a US citizen so i dont think i should really post in it, but i m gonna give my opinion anyway... i really think all the governements that start mixing religion and politics are doomed, and i really think that anybody should be able to marry anybody they want, and if the governement gave special benefits to those married ppl, then it must take all the tax benefits out of itl... marriage is not sacred anymore (if it ever was) ppl marry, divorce, remarry and redivorce, they just marry to get those benefits... tell me, is that faith or capitalism?
Sometimes it takes someone standing on the outside to point out inconsistencies to the people all in the middle of something. To that extent you have every right to participate.
If I were European or Canadian or whatever, I would start by pointing out how hypocritical it is to call yourself a country that holds the pursuit of happiness and equality as two of your countries convictions, yet then you legally treat one persons pursuit of happiness as more justified than anothers.
Sorry, just giving you some leads.
WE ARE DISCUSSING IF BANNING GAY MARRIAGE IS CONSTITUTIONAL UNDER THE UNITED STATES LAW!
WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL BRINGING RELIGION INTO THIS DISCUSSION? STOP BEING DUMBASSES!
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Marriage is a religious institution, so the government should not control it.
The Boy Scouts is a private organization. They can do whatever they want. As long as they don't accept tax payer dollars then they can discriminate if they feel like it. I wouldn't let my child join them either and I would explain to him why.
But I back their right as a private organization to do whatever they please. As long as they don't infringe on mine.
I'm not sure what you meant by posting that. Did I miss something?
===============================
I know, i just dont want to see a perfectly good thread go to waste because a few idiots are turning it into another religious/gay marriage bash thread.
For the record I believe marriage is a complete and total sham. In an age where backwoods trash like Brittney Spears can get a quickie marriage in Vegas and get divorced in the same week, or where celebrities marry, divorce and remarry each other as a publicity scheme, no one can seriously claim with a straight face that letting gays, who in all likelihood would be more likely to honor their vows, get married would somehow cheapen the 'sanctity' of marriage.
That being said... What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes is their own damned business, and no one elses. Period. Any arguements to the contrary, be they religious, moral, or otherwise are incorrect, ignorant, and inconsequential.
The religious organizations absolutely need to be paying taxes. Some back taxes wouldn't hurt either, as they've been meddeling in the political arena for some time now. If they don't like it, they can damn well go back to their churches, mosques, whatever, and shut the hell up.
And before someone posts about how seeing "fagz and dikez" holding hands makes them puke, it's no picnic watching White Trash Johnny and his brood mare make out in public either. Acting like a tactless pig in public isn't a trait exclusive to homosexuals.
And just to play devils advocate, the interesting thing is that gays, though not legally married, can often get coverage for their partners from their insurance, but I can't get coverage for my girlfriend from my insurance since we are not married.
I support gay marriage if it gets homos to quit whining.
Married people end up regretting being married, and these jackasses are fighting tooth and nail for the "right" to be married.
Corporal Klinger spent the entire Korean War wearing a dress trying to get out of the military, and these shmucks are trying to get in.
Let them join the army. Let them get married. They will be sorry they asked for it and hopefully it will get them to shut the hell up.
If they keep complaining after getting gay marriage, then I suggest lining them up against a wall and shooting them to spare us from having to listen to their neverending list of rights and grievances.
What if the government took away your right to join the army, or to get married...you'd be fighting "tooth and nail" to get those rights back wouldn't you?
I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people
It sounds like you have more grievances than they do.
===============================
I'm all for equal rights for homosexuals. I don't really see much of an arguement against gay rights that isn't heavily biased or ill-informed.
If marriage is mainly just an official label for committed lovers, then I say do away with this pos. I mean two people can love each other and live together without having to be married right?
Apart from the tax benefits:
There is more, look at the gay ppl who died in 9/11, they had wills giving everything to their lovers, but they were challenged in court by the parents who hated their sons because they were gay and they won... i saw a documentary about it... they were treated like dogs.... they didnt get any help from the state, lost their lovers and lost everything else to parents who didnt talk to their sons for years....
IRS Warns Churches Against Campaigning
It looks like the I.R.S. is starting to check into the church groups who step over the lines and start practicing politics. I don't understand why it has taken this long. If I were to break the law or a business I had did something wrong they'd be all over me in a heartbeat.
Hey reavo! i think i saw you wanting to be in that fantasy book! lol i signed up too! As for these gays and les,
It will never end! think about it this arguement has hapened since the beggining of time! Of course they didn;t
have politics then so its more complicated now..
Blatant display of theocrats in Congress.
Do they not realize that we don't care about following their religious principles? Yet they keep up the bigotry.
--------------------------------------
The idiocy knows no boundries... who cares about any religion when making laws, when their own book stats Matthew 7:11 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged".
And i wonder when they are going to ban DIVORCE since "God has spoken very clearly on this issue" too...
However, to give the other two verses context, in Leviticus, we are also told not to eat anything of the sea that does not have fin or scales. This means that eating lobster, oysters and other creatures that lack fins and scales (and are also from the sea) is a sin too, right?
The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (Corinthians 1) is a letter from Paul condemning their entire lifestyle, of which homosexuality was just one part. He equally condemns their drinking, drug-using, thieving, idolatry, fornication, swindlers, etc.
In any case, I don't agree with homosexuality. It is just another perversion, as far as I am concerned. Similiar in nature to BSDM, foot fetishes, rape fantasies (although not actually rape, that's a whole different subject), beasiality, voyuerism, etc. But then, what two consenting adults do is their business, as long as it's in the privacy of their own home.
I also don't agree with the religious condemnation of homosexuals. It's unfair, bigoted, narrowminded and above all, irrational. I despise people who don't apply rationality to their beliefs, whether religious or otherwise. If you examine the laws of Leviticus in context, you will see that they are guidelines for a healthy lifestyle amoung people ignorant of the true nature of disease, infection, bacteria and microorganisms. As such, they work very well. They are also a reaction to the perceived corruption of neighboring cultures and deserve to be treated as such.
My apologies for straying so far off topic, I felt the need for a rebuttal to an inaccurate statement.
On topic: Someone else said it perfectly - that marriage is a religious institution, and the goverment has no business regulating it. Marriage should be one option of civil unions. If two people decide to be life partners of whatever type, they should be able to apply for legal status as such.
-----------------------------
Listen Asmodeeus, seven years ago, Ultima Online didn't even have those pathetic "quests" that you refer to or those "professions" of ninja, samurai, necromancer, and paladin. Nor did it have any of the neon crap, or bug mounts. It didn't even have any "combat moves." You turned on attack and jousted with simplistic swings. It was a better game then. if you can't guess why then just uninstall the thing and move along. - Crabby
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."