Originally posted by Entico First of all if you want to talk about God - read some bible (Old Testament mainly that will introduce to christian, jewish and muslim faith). God is not a creature that fly in sourcer and has green skin. God can not be named or described. God is not from this world (planet/galaxy/universe <put anything what describe our world here>). He created this world you and aliens if they exist. He is not an alien, has no form, he is not what we humans define as lifeform. He is pure perfection source of everything in the world. "I AM THAT I AM." said God to Moses. You simply have no idea when you talk about God, your knowledge about God comes from TV, if you want to find out more go and speak to priest before you lie on deathbed. I do not say I belive in God, I have grown up in religious family and have my share of knowledge about religion and God. Do you belive in creation or evolution? I have a feeling you dont know in what to belive, hopefully one day you may find your way.
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
Ahhh... so you believe in Creation then. Don't be ashamed to say it! Alright, now about the rest of them, those Angels, that former good angel who went bad, and the rest of the angels who went bad. They have form, substance, and cannot be in many places at the same time. They also cannot create on the same level as their Creator.
BTW, what do you make of that Bible passage about when Moses (or was it Abraham?) was walking along and saw a bunch of Angles climbing a ladder into their "spaceship" in heaven?
I mean, why would Angels need to climb a ladder in order to get back into Heaven?
Originally posted by xplororor -> Well what do YOU believe in? YOU either believe in Creation or Evolution. <- The rest is self explanitory. I know, too much food for thought. Most people go through life not facing for sure what they believe in.... until they are on their death bed.
Actually it must be too much food for your mind so you simplified it and decided for only 2 cathegories.
I believe in many things but none of the above. I thought you might have some simplified and cathegorized view of the world and I was right. Try expanding your horizons a bit (not with science fiction) and you'll eventually find out that nothing is just black or white. There's alot of grey....
But this is not the place for this discussion.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
And the name calling continues from your side. You claim there are many choices other than just Creation and Evolution. But you on purpose don't state them. If you're going to hint at something, come clean with it.
What are these "many" other choices you claim you belive in?
Originally posted by Greyloop Dang this topic got way off the subject Xplorer Please just leave this room, you provide NOTHING useful.
Err yeah... did you miss every thread on page one? Or the other posters in this thread who FIRST pulled it off topic? Do you really want me to let them get the last off topic word without me answering them?
What's the topic? Ahh one question about How many people play AC2 at peak time.
It has been answered. Even less play than when I last played AC2 heheh.
Right now, according to current AC2 players, roughly 800 players online at PEAK time on each server.
This means on avarage, 400 players play on each server in AC2. Peak time is not around the clock.
One current AC2 player found out that roughly 2,000 players are online accross 7 servers. That comes out to roughly 400 players, or slightly less, on every server during non-peak time... which is the majority of the time.
What else is there to talk about in this thread? I responded to some off-topic suggestions FIRST posted by others. So IF you are going to tell me to leave, then tell those other posters to also leave.
Runescape an older, Java-Script based MMORPG has far more players during non-peak, and during Peak times LOL. How can an ancient Java-Script based MMORPG be doing twice as better as an ultra-modern, brand new, MMORPG like Asheron's Call 2 ???????? The graphics in RS hark back to the days of the Commodore 64, and IBM PCjr. Heheh.
Err yeah... did you miss every thread on page one? Or the other posters in this thread who FIRST pulled it off topic? Do you really want me to let them get the last off topic word without me answering them?
Thanks to you who is driving every thread on this forum off topic.
What's the topic? Ahh one question about How many people play AC2 at peak time.
It has been answered. Even less play than when I last played AC2 heheh.
Yes it has been answered and after that let me quote you:
AC2 started it's PvP game mechanic/features using FORCED PvP at first. Horrid beginning led to it not working even though it's no longer forced PvP. Too bad AC2 refused to learn the lesson that Forced, FFA, non-consentual PvP never works... as shown in UO..... soo much time AC2 spent wasting re-learning this lesson.
First off topic post in this thread. You saying how game looked after relase, you just bringing here state of the game from year ago.
What else is there to talk about in this thread? I responded to some off-topic suggestions FIRST posted by others. So IF you are going to tell me to leave, then tell those other posters to also leave.
You posted off topic first, I suggest go thru other threads on this forum, almost every one was driven way off topic by you.
Runescape an older, Java-Script based ....
Care to explain how does it relate to original topic?
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
Yes it has been answered and after that let me quote you:
AC2 started it's PvP game mechanic/features using FORCED PvP at first. Horrid beginning led to it not working even though it's no longer forced PvP. Too bad AC2 refused to learn the lesson that Forced, FFA, non-consentual PvP never works... as shown in UO..... soo much time AC2 spent wasting re-learning this lesson.
First off topic post in this thread. You saying how game looked after relase, you just bringing here state of the game from year ago.
Nope, I am perfectly on topic with that quote of mine you quoted. I went into detail about what helped to drive DOWN the server populations in AC2 which was Forced PvP, among other things. Heck, this was an UNNECESSARY population loss AC2 had since it was already shown in Other games that Forced PvP does not work. So AC2 shot itself in the foot and helped drive its server populations down for no reason by having Forced PvP.
You posted off topic first, I suggest go thru other threads on this forum, almost every one was driven way off topic by you.
I have just shown how that quote of mine you quoted was on topic. It was directly related to AC2's server population. It went into detail about one of the main reasons AC2 drove away players and one reason the server population is soooo low.
Runescape an older, Java-Script based ....
Care to explain how does it relate to original topic?
Runescape is an example of an ancient MMORPG with the same, or larger server population than AC2. It is a smack in the head to AC2 to show something is really, really, screwy with AC2.
For AC2 a brand new uber modern MMORPG, 1 year after release to have less of a server population than even Runescape which is a Javascript based MMORPG.
It is to give a clearer picture of how dismal the server population in AC2 are. To put the server population in AC2 in full perspective.
Nope, I am perfectly on topic with that quote of mine you quoted. I went into detail about what helped to drive DOWN the server populations in AC2 which was Forced PvP, among other things. Heck, this was an UNNECESSARY population loss AC2 had since it was already shown in Other games that Forced PvP does not work. So AC2 shot itself in the foot and helped drive its server populations down for no reason by having Forced PvP.
I suggest read again first post, then slowly read all posts untill you get to your off topic post. You freely interpreted topic and drifted off it in first sentence, after that it was easy.
Question asked has nothing to do with state of the game at the relase. I didnt like forced PvP but it was easy to avoid so it was minor problem. There was forced PvP in UO at the beginning and back then worked, penalty for dead was also much higher than in AC2 and it didnt scare customers away.
More you post about your experience in AC2 more it seems you dont have a clue what actually had biggest impact on customers loss in first 6 months. Every one who played AC2 after relase remember that one particular thing that driven him away from game. And no it wasn't high lvl content or lag. It was something else, remember xplororor what was it?
I have just shown how that quote of mine you quoted was on topic. It was directly related to AC2's server population. It went into detail about one of the main reasons AC2 drove away players and one reason the server population is soooo low.
Question was not about what driven customers away, that fact is irrelevant atm since that factor is not an issue anymore.
Runescape is an example...
Nice try here but it has nothing to do with original question.
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
I suggest read again first post, then slowly read all posts untill you get to your off topic post. You freely interpreted topic and drifted off it in first sentence, after that it was easy.
I'll let the MMORPG.com moderators be the judge. Also, this thread made by the original poster is about questions about AC2
Question asked has nothing to do with state of the game at the relase. I didnt like forced PvP but it was easy to avoid so it was minor problem. There was forced PvP in UO at the beginning and back then worked, penalty for dead was also much higher than in AC2 and it didnt scare customers away.
Forced PvP was a FAILURE in UO! It almost killed UO! The head designer of UO has posted repeatedly how UO was suffering non-stop tripple digit losses as the result of Forced PvP. UO then got rid of Forced PvP before that game became a flop like AC2 now is.
Also, in AC2 when they had Forced PvP it was not avoidable. Miners and crafters still had to travel to those areas to mine, and to harvest resources from monsters for crafting.
More you post about your experience in AC2 more it seems you dont have a clue what actually had biggest impact on customers loss in first 6 months. Every one who played AC2 after relase remember that one particular thing that driven him away from game. And no it wasn't high lvl content or lag. It was something else, remember xplororor what was it?
There was no "one reason" for 90% of all of AC2's players leaving. There were many reasons. Some for some players bigger reasons than others. Forced PvP was definatly ONE of those reasons. Even you yourself say you dislike Forced PvP.
Question was not about what driven customers away, that fact is irrelevant atm since that factor is not an issue anymore.
It is still an issue, because those customers that Forced PvP drove away..... are no longer present aka adding to the current demise of AC2.
I'm not a big fan of PvP myself but UO was only game where they actually got PvP quite right. Noone ever repeated UO success in PK field. Every UO old timer will tell you that free PK was one of coolest features in those ancient times .
Forced PvP was a FAILURE in UO! It almost killed UO! The head designer of UO has posted repeatedly how UO was suffering non-stop tripple digit losses as the result of Forced PvP. UO then got rid of Forced PvP before that game became a flop like AC2 now is.
Name that head designer, you probably dont even know who was developing UO. You are so clueless, UO was VERY polular when Trammel was introduced, at that point in time UO had nearly 200000 active accounts and was slowly rising.
There was no "one reason" for 90% of all of AC2's players leaving. There were many reasons.
Go back and read my post again, did I say there was one reason? No i did not, I only said there was one particular bug that was more annoying than all others, and most people left AC2 mainly or only due to that one not working feature. Do you know what is it? Can give a simple answer yes - <explanation here>?
Also, in AC2 when they had Forced PvP it was not avoidable. Miners and crafters still had to travel to those areas to mine, and to harvest resources from monsters for crafting.
Total absurd, have you ever played AC2? Every crafting resource was available in non PvP areas from day one after relase.
It is still an issue.
No it is not, and in fact it never was, if you didn't want to PvP you were never forced to do so. All you had to do is avoid certain areas. You could easly get to tyrant hunting grounds without crossing PvP area from day one after relase and you still can. Only if you chosen to go there "shorter" way you had to cross PvP area, you didn't HAVE to do so.
So called "forced PK" was/is completely insignificant factor. After relase there were serious issues and PvP system wasn't one of them. BTW same PvP system is still in place, only minor changes were made. More sofisticated Kingdom Conflict system is in working now and we should see first signs of it in next 2-3 months.
Anyway as I said question was not what driven customers away, you talking completely off topic.
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
Also, in AC2 when they had Forced PvP it was not avoidable. Miners and crafters still had to travel to those areas to mine, and to harvest resources from monsters for crafting.
Total absurd, have you ever played AC2? Every crafting resource was available in non PvP areas from day one after relase.
Not true at early release. At early release there were monsters in the PvP areas, and mines in the PvP areas, that crafters had to go to. Crafting in AC2 consists of killing monsters and using the loot to make items. Some loot would drop less than others forcing crafters to kill endless monsters until they got enough of a certain part of a crafting reciept.
Later forced PvP was removed.
It is still an issue.
No it is not, and in fact it never was, if you didn't want to PvP you were never forced to do so. All you had to do is avoid certain areas. You could easly get to tyrant hunting grounds without crossing PvP area from day one after relase and you still can. Only if you chosen to go there "shorter" way you had to cross PvP area, you didn't HAVE to do so.
1. Why should PvE players have to be FORCED to take the long route to get to where they want to go? That is what the game was doing. This cuts in on their playstyle.
2. Anyway, Forced PvP is no longer in AC2. The majority of PvE players have long left the game. No use further re-hashing over this.
So called "forced PK" was/is completely insignificant factor. After relase there were serious issues and PvP system wasn't one of them. BTW same PvP system is still in place, only minor changes were made. More sofisticated Kingdom Conflict system is in working now and we should see first signs of it in next 2-3 months.
It is your opinion that forced PvP aka FFA PvP is "insignifigant". Based on its history in MMORPGs, based on comments from various game DEVs in other successfull MMORPGs, FFA PvP is a failure and does not work. And will drive away PvE players who outnumber PvP players.
Anyway as I said question was not what driven customers away, you talking completely off topic.
The original poster had a question about AC2. It was answered. He made this thread for questions and answers about AC2.
LOL! You really walked into the closet and shut the door behind you on that one and trapped your hand in door frame!
I suggest read that essay again. If you read it closely you may find out that HE permitted free for all PK in UO and insisted on that. Trammel was introduced after he left UO.
You see, I'm the one who permitted the massacre of countless innocents on Ultima Online by insisting that we shouldn't go to a PK switch system, that players should be able to police themselves. I'm the one who kept trying systems like notoriety and reputation, who kept saying that the idea of separate servers for PvP and nonPvP was a financial boondoggle.
He also never stated that PK was causing UO to loose customers and fact that UO with free for all PvP had 200k active account says it all.
I still believe that we can find ways to allow players to police their environment. I still believe that this can open up the way to many extremely cool features new to these sorts of games. And I am continuing to work towards having these many features: real battles of territory.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you soo asked for it.
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
LOL! You really walked into the closet and shut the door behind you on that one and trapped your hand in door frame!
I suggest read that essay again. If you read it closely you may find out that HE permitted free for all PK in UO and insisted on that. Trammel was introduced after he left UO.
I also said read all his other essays and information at his site LOL!
And alas, since you do not play SWG, you are not privy to his most recent posts after his UO days. It was on the SWG forums, he stated UO was dying because of FFA PvP. He went on to post stats of the highest rated Player killers. And how roughly 5% of players were driving away roughly 50% of the players. The old "Miner vs Warrior" syndrome.
BTW, SWG is unofficially UO2. He used what he learned from UO, and put it into SWG, as well as new ideas, and experiments he had planned for UO... put in SWG. The name of the game now is CONSENTUAL PvP, and even consentual "FFA" PvP.
EXample: In SWG players first decide if they want to join either of the opposing factions. If they do not join, they are not open to PvP. If they do join, they are open to PvP absolutly anywhere, anytime, any place. There is abosolutly NOWHERE in the entire game that they are safe. No city, no building, no where. Not even in the "newbie" cities, or on the "starter newbie" planets. Aka consentual "FFA" PvP / Consentual PvP.
This holds true on every single server. Every server. (Back to his quote about how having seperate PvP and PvE servers is more costlier than including all playstyles on 1 server or every server.)
He also never stated that PK was causing UO to loose customers and fact that UO with free for all PvP had 200k active account says it all.
UO immediaty dropped to under 100k accounts after reaching its peak when it in Raphs exact words at the SWG site "kept suffering tripple digit losses". AFTER FFA PvP was killed off UO reached 350,000 active accounts. Which not only says it all, but says more.
I still believe that we can find ways to allow players to police their environment. I still believe that this can open up the way to many extremely cool features new to these sorts of games. And I am continuing to work towards having these many features: real battles of territory.
All of which he implimented as part of his experiments in Star Wars Galaxies. Not in UO because players are not able to "police theirselves" in UO. Check out his other essays in which he talks about how the most good natured individuale will become the most vile player in a FFA enviorment aka what UO had when it released. How they will not police theirselves. How they rack up the cost of customer service which is one of the most costliest parts of maintaining a MMORPG.
Sorry to burst all your bubbles. Including your special bubble you thought you had when you asked me to name him heheh.
Thank you for agreeing with me, thanks to him there was ffo PK in UO. Trammel was introduced in UO AFTER Koster left it. You said he introduced Trammel to save UO from disaster - false.
In year 2000 when Trammel was introduced UO had 200k active accounts and growing, it was nowhere near disaster you trying to describe here.
You went on to what he posted on SWG forums, to check your claims one have to have active SWG account (no thanks). For Koster UO is a competition now so whatever he says about it holds no weight what so ever. SWG forums are heavly censored and only people who have SWG active subscription can read them. I am sorry but whatever he posted there, holds as much true as propaganda in old Soviet Union.
SWG - UO2 yeah ok whatever you say...
After reaching 100k accounts in 1999 UO never dropped below that mark, within one year they doubled active accounts, all happend in ffa PK game.
Enough off topic discusion. If you want to talk SWG or UO lets move to another forum, this is not place for it.
It's all ancient history now anyway.
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
Thank you for agreeing with me, thanks to him there was ffo PK in UO. Trammel was introduced in UO AFTER Koster left it. You said he introduced Trammel to save UO from disaster - false.
In year 2000 when Trammel was introduced UO had 200k active accounts and growing, it was nowhere near disaster you trying to describe here.
1. Fact: AC2 introduced FFA PvP on every single server. It failed in AC2. AC2 then took it out.
2. Fact: Go to the UO forums and make a post saying "I understand UO started out with FFA PvP on every server. Was UO losing buisness as a result of this before it was taken out?"
3. Fact: Yes Raph and Lord British were the ones behind introducing FFA PvP in UO on every single server. That was NEVER the nature of our disagreement just now. It DID get taken out. Why? You tell me what was the reason UO no longer has FFA PvP on every server? It it was such a massive success why doesn't UO no longer have FFA PvP on every single server?
4. I will take Raphs statements over yours. I will take the REST of the UO game DEVs statements and backing Raph over what you say - yep I guess you also do not know that Raph was not the only UO game DEV who left UO to work on SWG?
I leave it up to the lurkers here do also decide if they want to take the statements of the lead game Designer behind UO, as well as the other UO game DEVs, over your statements. Raph posted the stats for UO. He is the one who stated FFA PvP almost killed UO. The other UO game DEVs never disputed his statements.
You went on to what he posted on SWG forums, to check your claims one have to have active SWG account (no thanks).
Stop pretending you just found this out just now LOL! I already stated only players who play and follow SWG are privy to his statements.
For Koster UO is a competition now so
How is UO competition to SWG?
LOL! UO is a Tolkien-themed MMORPG with 2-D graphics! SWG is currently the most modern Sci-Fi themed MMORPG with currently the most modern graphics and game engine out of every MMORPG as well out of every current computer game currently out. SWG also has every single game feature UO has. And BETTER... since Raph, and the rest of the UO game DEVs, used his and their experience in UO to impliment new and better ideas he and they had for UO or UO2.
whatever he says about it holds no weight what so ever.
Riiight. He put forth the stats for UO. Oh.. BTW, guess what? 90% of all the UO game DEVs also left with Raph to go work on SWG. Heheheh. Heck, for a while it was 100% of all the UO game DEVs, but 1 went back to UO after doing work on SWG. And they never disputed what Raph posted about UO on the SWG forums. Neither did all the ex-UO players who posted on the SWG forums.
SWG forums are heavly censored and only people who have SWG active subscription can read them. I am sorry but whatever he posted there, holds as much true as propaganda in old Soviet Union.
When has what a DEV posted on the SWG forums ever been censored? When? Name me one time or any time? None of Raphs posts, Hadyen Blackman's posts, or Rich Vogel's posts have ever been censored.
SWG - UO2 yeah ok whatever you say...
I said SWG is unofficially UO2. All the old game features and game mechanics that worked in UO, that UO is known for + all the NEW game features and game mechanics that were slated for UO2 are ALL in SWG.
After reaching 100k accounts in 1999 UO never dropped below that mark, within one year they doubled active accounts, all happend in ffa PK game.
Enough off topic discusion. If you want to talk SWG or UO lets move to another forum, this is not place for it.
It's all ancient history now anyway.
Yes I agree it is history now. And the man who was in the middle of it all knows far more than you do. Along with the other UO game DEVs who left UO to work on SWG.
Again, FFA PvP is no longer in UO on every server for a reason. FFA PvP is also no longer in AC2 on every server for a reason.
Soo...... what new topic doest thou whishith to discusseth noweth?
1. Fact: AC2 introduced FFA PvP on every single server. It failed in AC2. AC2 then took it out.
False FFA PvP was and still is on every AC2 server. It was and still is only in specific PvP areas, those areas are still there they were relocated thats all, check your facts before posting.
With Trammel alot of old UO players left, they were replaced by different playerbase. UO was never loosing business unless having 200k active accounts is loosing business in your world.
Majority of current UO players does't even know there was ffa PvP on every UO server years ago.
Trammel was introduced to even more expand playerbase, there were voices that some new people were discouraged by ffa PvP. Trammel was mainly for NEW players not for existing playerbase.
I will take the REST of the UO game DEVs statements and backing Raph over what you say - like who? Which one of the devs EVER said that UO was going for disaster becouse of PK? You cant back it up with one sentence. Koster said ffaPK was his idea and he wanted it on every server.
Not everything you imagine is truth you know that?
How is UO competition to SWG? - I said SWG is unofficially UO2.
Read, think, read again if you dont get it, keep reading it will come to you at some point....
Stop pretending you just found this out just now LOL! I already stated only players who play and follow SWG are privy to his statements.
Where do I pretend that I just found out about this BS. Please show me. I never pretend I dont know about it, its very well known fact in gameworld that SOE is covering failure by hiding official message board. Let me bring a quote from this very board....
Give me a break. You want real publicity? Open these forums for public viewing again and work to give the customers what they want.
Nice forum you got there, from what I saw in leeks most of people "praise" devs, wishing them quick and painfull death in game industry.
UO is a Tolkien-themed MMORPG with 2-D graphics! SWG is currently the most modern Sci-Fi themed MMORPG with currently the most modern graphics
So how is it Unoficial UO2 he? Even unoficial sequel should at least hold theme, SWG hasn't even got that.
According to what you are saying same team that created "marketing failure" aka pre Trammel UO also created SWG. Now that shows SWG future in very very dark colors.
You saying something and then 2 sentences later you contradicting youreself. Stop argueing for the sake of it. If you have some valid points state them if not move along.
Here are Facts as you like talking about facts.
Pre Trammel (bad broken ffa PK) UO had 200k active accounts.
SWG has roughly 75k ACTIVE accounts (population on all servers is LOW except on 2 servers in peek time when it goes up to medium, that info is straight from current SWG player ).
I am not saying that ffa PvP will fit in every game, as I said before I dont like to be forced to PvP I mainly play on white server and only from time to time log on to Darktide.
Your claims that ffa PvP caused money loss for UO or that it driven AC2 customers away are total absurd, you have no idea what you talking about in both cases.
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
1. Fact: AC2 introduced FFA PvP on every single server. It failed in AC2. AC2 then took it out.
False FFA PvP was and still is on every AC2 server. It was and still is only in specific PvP areas, those areas are still there they were relocated thats all, check your facts before posting.
"Relocated" eh? LOL.
With Trammel alot of old UO players left, they were replaced by different playerbase. UO was never loosing business unless having 200k active accounts is loosing business in your world.
Who were those old UO players who left? The players who enjoyed the FFA PvP!
After UO watered down PvP, aka leaned more towards PvE, its numbers went back up.
Majority of current UO players does't even know there was ffa PvP on every UO server years ago.
I fully agree.
Trammel was introduced to even more expand playerbase, there were voices that some new people were discouraged by ffa PvP. Trammel was mainly for NEW players not for existing playerbase.
Now you are starting to see the light, even though you hesitate. There were more than "just voices that some new people were 'discouraged' by FFA PvP."
I will take the REST of the UO game DEVs statements and backing Raph over what you say - like who? Which one of the devs EVER said that UO was going for disaster becouse of PK? You cant back it up with one sentence. Koster said ffaPK was his idea and he wanted it on every server.
Not everything you imagine is truth you know that?
Like I said, you can think and believe what you want. And I will think and believe what I want. Are you still upset that I easily took your dare to name the guy who designed UO?
Almost ALL the UO game DEVs left UO for SWG. None of them refuted what Raph said when he posted how UO was on its way to failure because of FFA PvP. None disputed the statistics about UO he posted.
How is UO competition to SWG? - I said SWG is unofficially UO2.
Read, think, read again if you dont get it, keep reading it will come to you at some point....
You need to follow your own advise. UO2 = building on what was in UO. Since UO2 is now vaporware. SWG is unofficially UO2 = SWG took everything successfull in UO and built up on it.
Stop pretending you just found this out just now LOL! I already stated only players who play and follow SWG are privy to his statements.
Where do I pretend that I just found out about this BS. Please show me. I never pretend I dont know about it, its very well known fact in gameworld that SOE is covering failure by hiding official message board. Let me bring a quote from this very board....
It is even more well known in the game world that many who think this are too misinformed. For the upteenth time, before SWG was ever released it was posted that the new SWG forums would be open only to people who subscribe to SWG. And the reasons were given, some of which were:
- To make all posters accountable for what they post.
- To cut down on spam, trolling, spam, flaming, spam.
- To make it easier for Moderators to find the important posts by PAYING customers and address them.
- To give prefrence to PAYING customers first. Since it is PAYING customers who are paying for the forums, the salaries of the Moderators, etc... Why should non-paying people recieve the same services? Why should non-paying people strain and load the services being paid for by paying customers?
Give me a break. You want real publicity? Open these forums for public viewing again and work to give the customers what they want.
Nice forum you got there, from what I saw in leeks most of people "praise" devs, wishing them quick and painfull death in game industry.
And again, I already posted the reasons why the forums are closed. All of which were stated in the old official forms BEFORE the game even released. LOL.
UO is a Tolkien-themed MMORPG with 2-D graphics! SWG is currently the most modern Sci-Fi themed MMORPG with currently the most modern graphics
So how is it Unoficial UO2 he? Even unoficial sequel should at least hold theme, SWG hasn't even got that.
I posted how SWG is not in direct competition with UO. SWG is a modern MMORPG. I posted how SWG is unofficially UO2 - the majority of UO game DEVs left UO to work on SWG. They implimented new, improved, and better ideas that were supppose to go into UO2, instead into SWG.
According to what you are saying same team that created "marketing failure" aka pre Trammel UO also created SWG. Now that shows SWG future in very very dark colors.
The same team who created UO when it first released, who LEARNED from their MISTAKES, then implimented their new ideas, improved ideas, into SWG. How hard is that to follow?
You saying something and then 2 sentences later you contradicting youreself. Stop argueing for the sake of it. If you have some valid points state them if not move along.
No contradiction. It all comes together smoothly. Just take your time reading it and thinking about it.
Here are Facts as you like talking about facts.
Pre Trammel (bad broken ffa PK) UO had 200k active accounts.
SWG has roughly 75k ACTIVE accounts (population on all servers is LOW except on 2 servers in peek time when it goes up to medium, that info is straight from current SWG player ).
Incorrect. Those are the number of players who were seen ONLINE at the same time.
*Sigh*
Just like in EVERY single MMORPG, not all players play online at the exact same time. Some are at work, school, sleeping, doing other hobbies, and things. SWG for its first 4 months of release had all servers full because months and years before release all the SW fans had planned their vacations, to cut school, cut work, hide from family and friends, take a break from life..... to be there for release and to play SWG during its first few months of release. For a while ALL players were "hardcore" even the casual players.
Plus there's the fact SWG released at the start of school vacation which allowed even more casual players to play hardcore.
Also in SWG, each server holds 24,000 accounts. But each server only allows 12,000 accounts to be played at the exact same time. Take into account players who are sleeping, working, at school, etc... and there will be an avarage of 6,000 players online on each server at PEAK time. Roughly 3,000 players online on each server during non PEAK time. (BTW, this is with every player playing an avarge of 12 hours hehehehehheh.)
Recently School vacation has ended, summer vacation has ended, all the casual players who took their vacations, cut work, cut school, hid from family and friends, took off from life - are all going back to their normal routine. Now the casual players are really playing casually the way the game intended.
SWG has over 300,000 accounts. Roughly 150,000 accounts is the most that can be played online at the same time. Even IF 75,000 players were/are online, that is just fine and perfect, and makes wonderful sense.... aka... half of those 150k players are playing while the other half are sleeping, at work, at school, etc...
SWG = A successfull MMORPG. Right on track to recouping its 25 million investment. Right on track to meeting the industry standard for a successfull MMORPG.
UO = Right now a successfull MMORPG. Has long ago recouped the money invested into it. It is a successfull MMORPG.
(EQ cost 5 million to make. It is easy to guesstimate UO cost between 2 million to 5 million to make. IMHO more like 2.5 million since obviously its graphic and game engine is not on par with the graphic and game engine of EQ.)
AC2 = A failed MMORPG. It is no where near recouping its 15 million to 25 million investement. It is not on track to ever becoming a successfull MMORPG. Seven months ago (when I last played and I saw the server numbers myself) it had 12,000 players online. Right now it has 2,000 players online!
I am not saying that ffa PvP will fit in every game, as I said before I dont like to be forced to PvP I mainly play on white server and only from time to time log on to Darktide.
No comment from me on your playstyle. Me, you, nor anyone else can say if anyone's playstlye is "right" or "wrong".
Your claims that ffa PvP caused money loss for UO or that it driven AC2 customers away are total absurd, you have no idea what you talking about in both cases.
You obviously have not read the REST of Raphs Essays at his personal site. It takes about 1 week of free time to go through the tons of info he has there. Come back after you have done so.
Comments
Ahhh... so you believe in Creation then. Don't be ashamed to say it!
Alright, now about the rest of them, those Angels, that former good angel who went bad, and the rest of the angels who went bad. They have form, substance, and cannot be in many places at the same time. They also cannot create on the same level as their Creator.
BTW, what do you make of that Bible passage about when Moses (or was it Abraham?) was walking along and saw a bunch of Angles climbing a ladder into their "spaceship" in heaven?
I mean, why would Angels need to climb a ladder in order to get back into Heaven?
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
I believe in many things but none of the above. I thought you might have some simplified and cathegorized view of the world and I was right. Try expanding your horizons a bit (not with science fiction) and you'll eventually find out that nothing is just black or white. There's alot of grey....
But this is not the place for this discussion.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
And the name calling continues from your side. You claim there are many choices other than just Creation and Evolution. But you on purpose don't state them. If you're going to hint at something, come clean with it.
What are these "many" other choices you claim you belive in?
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======= SIGNATURE =========
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
Dang this topic got way off the subject
Xplorer Please just leave this room, you provide NOTHING useful.
Err yeah... did you miss every thread on page one? Or the other posters in this thread who FIRST pulled it off topic? Do you really want me to let them get the last off topic word without me answering them?
What's the topic? Ahh one question about How many people play AC2 at peak time.
It has been answered. Even less play than when I last played AC2 heheh.
Right now, according to current AC2 players, roughly 800 players online at PEAK time on each server.
This means on avarage, 400 players play on each server in AC2. Peak time is not around the clock.
One current AC2 player found out that roughly 2,000 players are online accross 7 servers. That comes out to roughly 400 players, or slightly less, on every server during non-peak time... which is the majority of the time.
What else is there to talk about in this thread? I responded to some off-topic suggestions FIRST posted by others. So IF you are going to tell me to leave, then tell those other posters to also leave.
Runescape an older, Java-Script based MMORPG has far more players during non-peak, and during Peak times LOL. How can an ancient Java-Script based MMORPG be doing twice as better as an ultra-modern, brand new, MMORPG like Asheron's Call 2 ???????? The graphics in RS hark back to the days of the Commodore 64, and IBM PCjr. Heheh.
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======= SIGNATURE =========
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
-------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
-----------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
=========================
======= SIGNATURE =========
=========================
MMORPG games I've played:
-------------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
-------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
-----------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
=========================
======= SIGNATURE =========
=========================
MMORPG games I've played:
-------------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
-------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
-----------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
I'm not a big fan of PvP myself but UO was only game where they actually got PvP quite right. Noone ever repeated UO success in PK field. Every UO old timer will tell you that free PK was one of coolest features in those ancient times
.
Forced PvP was a FAILURE in UO! It almost killed UO! The head designer of UO has posted repeatedly how UO was suffering non-stop tripple digit losses as the result of Forced PvP. UO then got rid of Forced PvP before that game became a flop like AC2 now is.
Name that head designer, you probably dont even know who was developing UO. You are so clueless, UO was VERY polular when Trammel was introduced, at that point in time UO had nearly 200000 active accounts and was slowly rising.
There was no "one reason" for 90% of all of AC2's players leaving. There were many reasons.
Go back and read my post again, did I say there was one reason? No i did not, I only said there was one particular bug that was more annoying than all others, and most people left AC2 mainly or only due to that one not working feature. Do you know what is it? Can give a simple answer yes - <explanation here>?
Also, in AC2 when they had Forced PvP it was not avoidable. Miners and crafters still had to travel to those areas to mine, and to harvest resources from monsters for crafting.
Total absurd, have you ever played AC2? Every crafting resource was available in non PvP areas from day one after relase.
It is still an issue.
No it is not, and in fact it never was, if you didn't want to PvP you were never forced to do so. All you had to do is avoid certain areas. You could easly get to tyrant hunting grounds without crossing PvP area from day one after relase and you still can. Only if you chosen to go there "shorter" way you had to cross PvP area, you didn't HAVE to do so.
So called "forced PK" was/is completely insignificant factor. After relase there were serious issues and PvP system wasn't one of them. BTW same PvP system is still in place, only minor changes were made. More sofisticated Kingdom Conflict system is in working now and we should see first signs of it in next 2-3 months.
Anyway as I said question was not what driven customers away, you talking completely off topic.
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
LOL! You really walked into the closet and shut the door behind you on that one and trapped your hand in door frame!
I suggest read that essay again. If you read it closely you may find out that HE permitted free for all PK in UO and insisted on that. Trammel was introduced after he left UO.
You see, I'm the one who permitted the massacre of countless innocents on Ultima Online by insisting that we shouldn't go to a PK switch system, that players should be able to police themselves. I'm the one who kept trying systems like notoriety and reputation, who kept saying that the idea of separate servers for PvP and nonPvP was a financial boondoggle.
He also never stated that PK was causing UO to loose customers and fact that UO with free for all PvP had 200k active account says it all.
I still believe that we can find ways to allow players to police their environment. I still believe that this can open up the way to many extremely cool features new to these sorts of games. And I am continuing to work towards having these many features: real battles of territory.
Sorry to burst your bubble but you soo asked for it.
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
=========================
======= SIGNATURE =========
=========================
MMORPG games I've played:
-------------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
-------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
-----------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
Thank you for agreeing with me, thanks to him there was ffo PK in UO. Trammel was introduced in UO AFTER Koster left it. You said he introduced Trammel to save UO from disaster - false.
In year 2000 when Trammel was introduced UO had 200k active accounts and growing, it was nowhere near disaster you trying to describe here.
You went on to what he posted on SWG forums, to check your claims one have to have active SWG account (no thanks). For Koster UO is a competition now so whatever he says about it holds no weight what so ever. SWG forums are heavly censored and only people who have SWG active subscription can read them. I am sorry but whatever he posted there, holds as much true as propaganda in old Soviet Union.
SWG - UO2 yeah ok whatever you say...
After reaching 100k accounts in 1999 UO never dropped below that mark, within one year they doubled active accounts, all happend in ffa PK game.
Enough off topic discusion. If you want to talk SWG or UO lets move to another forum, this is not place for it.
It's all ancient history now anyway.
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
=========================
======= SIGNATURE =========
=========================
MMORPG games I've played:
-------------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
-------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
-----------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
1. Fact: AC2 introduced FFA PvP on every single server. It failed in AC2. AC2 then took it out.
False FFA PvP was and still is on every AC2 server. It was and still is only in specific PvP areas, those areas are still there they were relocated thats all, check your facts before posting.
With Trammel alot of old UO players left, they were replaced by different playerbase. UO was never loosing business unless having 200k active accounts is loosing business in your world.
Majority of current UO players does't even know there was ffa PvP on every UO server years ago.
Trammel was introduced to even more expand playerbase, there were voices that some new people were discouraged by ffa PvP. Trammel was mainly for NEW players not for existing playerbase.
I will take the REST of the UO game DEVs statements and backing Raph over what you say - like who? Which one of the devs EVER said that UO was going for disaster becouse of PK? You cant back it up with one sentence. Koster said ffaPK was his idea and he wanted it on every server.
Not everything you imagine is truth you know that?
How is UO competition to SWG? - I said SWG is unofficially UO2.
Read, think, read again if you dont get it, keep reading it will come to you at some point....
Stop pretending you just found this out just now LOL! I already stated only players who play and follow SWG are privy to his statements.
Where do I pretend that I just found out about this BS. Please show me. I never pretend I dont know about it, its very well known fact in gameworld that SOE is covering failure by hiding official message board. Let me bring a quote from this very board....
Give me a break. You want real publicity? Open these forums for public viewing again and work to give the customers what they want.
Nice forum you got there, from what I saw in leeks most of people "praise" devs, wishing them quick and painfull death in game industry.
UO is a Tolkien-themed MMORPG with 2-D graphics! SWG is currently the most modern Sci-Fi themed MMORPG with currently the most modern graphics
So how is it Unoficial UO2 he?
Even unoficial sequel should at least hold theme, SWG hasn't even got that.
According to what you are saying same team that created "marketing failure" aka pre Trammel UO also created SWG. Now that shows SWG future in very very dark colors.
You saying something and then 2 sentences later you contradicting youreself. Stop argueing for the sake of it. If you have some valid points state them if not move along.
Here are Facts as you like talking about facts.
Pre Trammel (bad broken ffa PK) UO had 200k active accounts.
SWG has roughly 75k ACTIVE accounts (population on all servers is LOW except on 2 servers in peek time when it goes up to medium, that info is straight from current SWG player
).
I am not saying that ffa PvP will fit in every game, as I said before I dont like to be forced to PvP I mainly play on white server and only from time to time log on to Darktide.
Your claims that ffa PvP caused money loss for UO or that it driven AC2 customers away are total absurd, you have no idea what you talking about in both cases.
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
=========================
======= SIGNATURE =========
=========================
MMORPG games I've played:
-------------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
-------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
-----------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01