Originally posted by Kanoth Just like anyone that orders an appraisal would clean their house, we'll make sure the game looks the way we want it before the reviews come through. If you'd like to review RV you can contact our communications director Nick. I'll PM the address to you.
Ok thanks, I will contact him. Since I have already formed an opinion of the game (in it's current state) I think it would only be fair that I let someone other than myself review the game.
Originally posted by Kanoth Just like anyone that orders an appraisal would clean their house, we'll make sure the game looks the way we want it before the reviews come through. If you'd like to review RV you can contact our communications director Nick. I'll PM the address to you.
Fact remains once a game is sold the company has lost the priveledge of the NDA and are open to reviews.
Of course for companies that had a bad launch this is bad news but really once its out of the door you cannot say "hold on don't review it for another few weeks/months".
Thats it.Reviewers can be patient and wait if they have strong faith or no deadline to meet for months but really any magazine/person/website is free to review the game once it is launched.
Originally posted by grinreaper "Fact remains once a game is sold the company has lost the priveledge of the NDA and are open to reviews."
Technicly true but most places try and play ball with the Development folks unless they have no other choice. It is just smart business practice.
Well this statement i made refers to all games not just RV or mmorpgs.I never said it was perfect or the ideal way to review a mmorpg.
I made it to a statement that "Just like anyone that orders an appraisal would clean their house, we'll make sure the game looks the way we want it before the reviews come through"
All i am saying is ready or not the reviews are coming or have come.
Yeah, we know they dont have to wait. But so far, all but one has, and we're greatful. From our business directors reactions to the review, it seems it's quite unusual for an official magizine to review without asking first. Though I personally wouldnt know.
The point of a review is to be as unbiased as possible, forming an opinion on what is actually there, not what is promised to come.
You can always ask them to update their review later if you feel the game has improved but when you release a game to the public and charge for it, you should expect honest reviews for the released product as is.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
I'd like to see people review the game as it is now. For one, the game is out, they are charging people to play it. We should see some opinions of the game they felt was ready to go out the door.. and secondly, given all the time in the world, I still don't think this game gets much better. Spend few more weeks polishing a turd and it's still a turd.
If you hate it so much, why are you so impatient for a review? If you're so sure it hasn't and won't get better, do you expect a review to change your mind?
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
So other people don't spend their money based solely on deceptive comments made by the devs and the OP in this thread... assuming he doesn't fit in to the first group. I personally think what RB has done with this game is bad for small developers and for the MMO market in general. They have consistently over-promised and under-delivered.. mix in a decent portion of straight up lies and you have Roma Victor.
If this game was free, I could be a lot more forgiving... but they obviously know that most people won't stick around long enough for the verm system to pay off, so they want to get your 20 bucks up front. I think people should get to read some objective reviews about the game before they spend a dime on it. All the real info on the game posted by the players gets hidden in subscriber only areas of their forums.
Simply put... If the game isn't ready to be reviewed, they shouldn't be selling it.
I'm amazed that people say we lied. At no time have we ever lied to anyone about this game. I guess you're using a different definition of lying than we are. If someone lies, they're deliberately telling you something that they know not to be true in order to decieve. We've never done that, and I challenge anyone to say honestly that we have. I would like you to point this lie out to me please.
I know you're not going to take my word for it, but I do not lie about the game, and none of the other devs have done so either.
You're more than welcome to call me and the others at RB liars...but no matter how many times you say it, it doesnt make it true.
Yah... we may define lying differently. If someone tells me that the current screenshots do not represent what the graphics will look like at launch because they aren't "turned up" yet... and then at launch the graphics have not changed. That is a lie in my book.
Things don't always go as planned in the gaming industry. It's a fact of life.
The graphics thing was said a long time ago. Then they stopped. The players kept repeating that, and it started getting more and more exagerrated.
I doubt you can find a single highly anticipated game where the devs never talked about anything that wasn't in release for the entire project.
Before launch, KFR provided a "State of the World" that said exactly what would be in at launch. That's what you should have paid attention to, not things planned months ago.
We're starting to get some of the features that didn't make it in at launch now. So let me ask you, how long are you planning on keeping this up? Months or years from now, are you going to be complaining that the launch wasn't perfect?
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
Originally posted by Salvatoris Yah... we may define lying differently. If someone tells me that the current screenshots do not represent what the graphics will look like at launch because they aren't "turned up" yet... and then at launch the graphics have not changed. That is a lie in my book.
So the fact that they were in fact 'turned up' this week has no impact on this?
If they have updated the graphics, they should post some screens. It still doesn't change my original point that if the game wasn't ready to reviewed, it wasn't ready to be released. I believe that when reviews do come, they will fall more in line with the PCZone review than with the preview you tried pass off here. Your implication that I am trolling this forum to bash the game is simply not based in fact. What you posted was BS, people called you on it and you want to dismiss it all as trolling.
I just want to know what super cool company you think has a better track record for delivering what they say they are going to than RB. Also please list what what you think has been deceptive about thier marketing. Because from what I have seen, you are full of hot air. Also, to make a comment like 'if it is not ready to be reviewed, it isnt ready to be released' is great if you are making a bumper sticker, but is pretty ignorant of both the realities of reviewing and the nature of MMOG's in general.
Oh, and screens were posted. Both here and on the RV boards.
The "graphics arent turned up" evolved from us saying, "the ground effects arent turned on". Ground effects would be 3d grass basically, that and more texture layers. Textures and character models did improve throughout the test. We intended to turn on the ground effects for launch, only to find SpeedTree came out with something (SpeedGrass) that looked a hell of alot better, and was a hell of alot easier to put in. We're just waiting to purchase it.
You're right, we do have different definitions of lying. What you're saying is lying is what I'd call just being wrong. If we believe that A=B, then later come to find out that A actually = C, then we werent lying, we were just wrong. And unfortunately, though we play gods in game, we're just as human IRL.
I know now what people were expecting graphics wise at launch, something like a jump from AO graphics to EQ2 graphics. We should have been more on top of that to correct people but we werent. It's a shame, but that's in the past now, the only way we're going now is foreward. I really am sorry to anyone that may have got the wrong idea, being head of the community that blame falls squarely on me.
That wasn't the only statement about the graphics. I can dig for quotes if you want me to, but it was stated that the graphics would be comparable to other modern MMOs, someone may have gone as far as saying better... but I would have to dig to verify that. Now, if that wasn't intentionally deceptive, it was at least looking at the game through some very thick rose colored glasses. I'm not a graphics whore by any means... I am currently playing AO. The RV graphics are about on par with AO, IMO... which is a 5 year old game.
I think you could have better addressed graphics concerns people brought up before launch by explaining the size of the development team and the budget constraints that limited graphics to what what they were at launch, which was consistent with the graphics people complained about in the screenshots.
Originally posted by grinreaper I just want to know what super cool company you think has a better track record for delivering what they say they are going to than RB. Also please list what what you think has been deceptive about thier marketing. Because from what I have seen, you are full of hot air. Also, to make a comment like 'if it is not ready to be reviewed, it isnt ready to be released' is great if you are making a bumper sticker, but is pretty ignorant of both the realities of reviewing and the nature of MMOG's in general. Oh, and screens were posted. Both here and on the RV boards.
Ok tbh i never bought this game for its graphics looks but but it was stated that the graphics on launch will be comparable to modern day mmorpg which is not so.
also the game has missing features and animals(don't give me this one guy once upon a time saw a wolf as qualifing for that).
I am not trying to prove RB lied or not.I expect on average things never to be as was promised once upon a time.
But before you make RB to be the perfect saints of mmorpg i can easily name a game which delievered exactly what it said would be on launch and more-EQ2(i think wow did too but would not list it as prove because i came late in beta on that).
With EQ2 i was one of the first beta testers as i got in with first batch of friends and family(i was an ex guide looong ago in EQ1).So i was there almost from after alpha and for many months.
I read all the planned features for launch and nothing was omitted from it.The only thing i ever saw SoE trolls pick on was the frogloks will be at launch and i eventually dug up a 6 months pre launch post where it confirmed that the frogloks will not be at launch
However,maybe a bit off topic as this thread is still basically a proven to be deception of a very old preview turned by sempiternal ALONE into a review.Is that legal lol.
"Virtual worlds are an object lession in achieving a lot without sacrifice. We need to ensure that the game is visually appealing and on a par with contemporary games whilst ensuring that thousands of other players can connect to the same world with hugely varying levels of hardware. "
Is that the quote you're talking about? Your right, KFR did say that in a community questions session. But keep in mind he said that on August 4th 2004.
I agree, I should have been a bit more clear. The main people on the forums knew about the size of the team, but visiters that are regulars on this site do not. So they wouldnt have known. I'm alot like you Salvatoris in regards to graphics. I dont consider myself someone that HAS to have the best graphics, but more than once I've picked up a game, looked at the back of the box, vomited, and placed it back on the shelf without even reading what it was about. Graphics grab people, gameplay keeps them. Its my opinion you need both.
It's something we've learned from. We're looking forward and the graphics will be improved with almost every patch. We're no where near done with it.
If that's not the right quote let me know. I think that's the one though.
Originally posted by Kanoth Originally posted by Jorev The screenshots currently available are obviously the best graphics possible atm.
Not true of RV. Maybe of other Companies.
Here are a couple of old posts from KFR that still ring true.
"Sounds like it's time for me to shed some more light on the pics.
They were taken in third person view, which currently has a slight fisheye lense effect - this effect doesn't apply in first person view. This can sometimes make screenshots look slightly odd - warped even, particularly towards the edges.
The ground effects aren't on yet and we're only using one tile per ground surface, which is why the ground all looks a bit samey. Also the sky is just a default - it'll look more sensible when we have weather and time of day actually doing their bit. The clouds aren't even moving at the moment.
The people all have the same clothes because we're using a generic auxiliary character for all the testers at the moment.
The multi-coloured circle just noticeable in some pics is a side-effect of the screen capture utility I was using.
In short, these aren't publicity shots - they're much more candid. If I really wanted to wow people, I'd load up a variety of characters, stand them in exactly the right location, turn on some local ground effects and take a screenshot in first-person view. It would probably end up looking something like this.
But I thought it would be better right now to just take some quick screenshots of what actually goes on inside the GOCaT programme."
Or this:
"Kanoth is absolutely right. When you're building a massive virtual world from scratch, appearance is the very last thing you worry about - at least it is if you're doing it right, IMHO. That having been said, and as everyone here hopefully knows, we do welcome all criticism. It's just that this is some criticism that we were rather expecting and, to be honest, not too bothered about.
The cute effects that make us look like a big-brand MMORPG are really very trivial compared to the other things we have to worry about and do. It's much harder to build scalable software infrastructure and solid game mechanics and consequently that's where our focus remains at this stage of development. And believe it or not if we got the easy stuff out of the way first, then it would make some of the hard stuff harder to build and test accurately.
We are not a marketing/hype-based MMORPG developer and at the moment we're a developer that's never launched a product or service. Consequently, you won't see Roma Victor trying to muscle in on column inches in the gaming press or trying to appear on every online gaming web site there is, simply by punting out an almost meaningless assembled screenshot.
Instead, on this site and our fansites, you will see screenshots released of actual development, real testers and their genuine experiences. Most developers are shy of releasing such things in case they meet exactly this reaction - so they rush graphical features out in order to spruce up the screenshots and please the marketing people, who are eager to start making noises.
We won't sacrifice our development plan or schedule in any way to satisfy such whims at this stage. If people are turned away by the look of screenshots from the GOCaT testing then, frankly, I'm really not too bothered at this stage. Anyone making such superficial judgements about something so clearly incomplete will not bring much to this community or Roma Victor itself. And I'm quite sure that these same people will be making very different noises next year when they get to see some screenshots that look much better than they're expecting (because of the limits of their own imaginations, after all).
This, I should imagine, will pretty much be my final word on the subject until around this time next year. In the meantime I'll keep releasing screenshots of the ongoing GOCaT programme whenever I can. We're much more interested in this community than "the marketplace".
-KFR
P.S. The graphics engine is our own - built from scratch within this year. It's really rather sophisticated, extremely capable and integrates perfectly with the other engines that we've had to build - network, sound etc.
P.P.S. When we get to implement all the latest graphics features I'm actually pretty confident that we'll look better than most big-brand MMORPG's out there. After all we'll have most, if not all, of the same graphical systems that the others have and, in my opinion, we already have much better art material than most."
If you took the time Jorev to research your concerns and find the answers, you may just have a different outlook on the game. Head to our forums and use that search engine. You may be pleasenly surprised.
You'll have to forgive me, I just read what was in bold. It just says when we get it implimented, doest say it'll all be done by release.
I'm trying to find that post on our forums. But since he mentioned "The graphics engine is our own - built from scratch within this year..." ...I'd say it's a pretty old post, maybe 04. May have been lost in the board change over last year. Unless it was posted by him on these boards somewhere. Tough to remember 4 and a half years of posts. lol
He does mention a bit of a time-frame in the quoted post. He says....
"We won't sacrifice our development plan or schedule in any way to satisfy such whims at this stage. If people are turned away by the look of screenshots from the GOCaT testing then, frankly, I'm really not too bothered at this stage. Anyone making such superficial judgements about something so clearly incomplete will not bring much to this community or Roma Victor itself. And I'm quite sure that these same people will be making very different noises next year when they get to see some screenshots that look much better than they're expecting (because of the limits of their own imaginations, after all). "
I can understand that things don't always go the way you intend them to. i understand you thinking it's a bit harsh to imply that people lied.... but I think you guys should have been a lot more forthcoming in conveying the graphics people should expect at launch. There are several posts on the subject dismissing it as low settings for beta. It was implied that the game would look better at launch... and I think people should be aware of exactly how far off the mark this game hit on its goal of looking "better than most big-brand MMORPG's out there." If there is a revised schedule for this game getting to that state, I would love to hear it. If, as I suspect, that goal has been completely revised, I'd like to hear that as well.
I do believe that reviews pointing out the state of the game, which is live, are well within their right. I know this point has been criticized before... but If you weren't ready for people to review it, maybe it wasn't ready to go live.
I participate on RV, being involved with an evolving virtual world is more participation than it is 'playing', playing is what I do on WoW. RV is great because of genuine uniqueness, it's striving for historical accuracy/realism, and dedicated participant base. One thing that is a growing negative are the forums. It is becoming increasingly the case that fanbois like sempiternal are making substandard attempts at boosting awareness of RV and promoting it. Amateur fanboi post attempts only serve to further irritate detractors, polarize the forums and alienate potential new RV participants checking out the forums for info. The inability, deliberate or otherwise, of RedBedlam to exercise image control, by reigning in some of these fanbois, for the sake of the mmorpg (RV) that these fanbois pledge semper fidelis to is a dangerous gambit. I don't post that often, it usually takes something particularly disburbing for me to post. What I find particularly disburbing now is that the tone and arguments now surfacing on the Roma Victor forums (on www.mmorpg.com) is dangerously paralleling the debates, discussions, flaming and fanboifest of the DnL forums. If these forums and the debates contained herein go down the DnL road, it could result in the untimely demise of RV, something that I do not want to see. Perhaps we could all take a lesson from the RedBedlam posts and engage in thoughtful, civil debates and discussions and leave the fanboism, flaming and personal attacks elsewhere, if for nothing else, for the sake of Roma Victor.
Originally posted by SUMB44 I don't post that often, it usually takes something particularly disburbing for me to post. ~ GALLUS AHALA PLOTIUS
It's about quality, not quantity. Good post, I agree 100%. While people are more than welcome to post their opinions either good or bad, restating the same praises or arguments over and over serve to only stagnate discussions into revolving debates that never go anywhere.
Originally posted by Kanoth Originally posted by SUMB44 I don't post that often, it usually takes something particularly disburbing for me to post. ~ GALLUS AHALA PLOTIUS
It's about quality, not quantity. Good post, I agree 100%. While people are more than welcome to post their opinions either good or bad, restating the same praises or arguments over and over serve to only stagnate discussions into revolving debates that never go anywhere.
Actually i think he was trying to point out how this original topic hurts RV rather then helps it.
It goes for any game really.If a fan comes to a site and posts a over 1 year old preview and tags it a review ,it gives the impression that RV actually has a lot to hide and this is more or less a distortion of a preview to make it look more current by retagging it a review.
I am a fan of EQ2 and have to say if i see someone post some ancient preview and distort it to make it look like its a new review i too will flame the poster because an outsider will look at it as nothing more then a desperate attempt to win support for a game not doing so hot.
And indeed i been on this forum for ages.I played some other bad mmorpg(its my opinon RV is in a poor state ) but have rarely ever made many posts about it if ever.
But fans like sempiternal and a few others have gone out of their way since pre launch to distort the state of the game and there has to be a voice to state the reality of thing to avoid "false advertisment" existing.After all thats one of this site function to get information good or bad
Comments
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
Fact remains once a game is sold the company has lost the priveledge of the NDA and are open to reviews.
Of course for companies that had a bad launch this is bad news but really once its out of the door you cannot say "hold on don't review it for another few weeks/months".
Thats it.Reviewers can be patient and wait if they have strong faith or no deadline to meet for months but really any magazine/person/website is free to review the game once it is launched.
"Fact remains once a game is sold the company has lost the priveledge of the NDA and are open to reviews."
Technicly true but most places try and play ball with the Development folks unless they have no other choice. It is just smart business practice.
Well this statement i made refers to all games not just RV or mmorpgs.I never said it was perfect or the ideal way to review a mmorpg.
I made it to a statement that "Just like anyone that orders an appraisal would clean their house, we'll make sure the game looks the way we want it before the reviews come through"
All i am saying is ready or not the reviews are coming or have come.
"Rome wasn't coded in a day"
- Kanoth
Why should they ask to review?
The point of a review is to be as unbiased as possible, forming an opinion on what is actually there, not what is promised to come.
You can always ask them to update their review later if you feel the game has improved but when you release a game to the public and charge for it, you should expect honest reviews for the released product as is.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
I'd like to see people review the game as it is now. For one, the game is out, they are charging people to play it. We should see some opinions of the game they felt was ready to go out the door.. and secondly, given all the time in the world, I still don't think this game gets much better. Spend few more weeks polishing a turd and it's still a turd.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
So other people don't spend their money based solely on deceptive comments made by the devs and the OP in this thread... assuming he doesn't fit in to the first group. I personally think what RB has done with this game is bad for small developers and for the MMO market in general. They have consistently over-promised and under-delivered.. mix in a decent portion of straight up lies and you have Roma Victor.
If this game was free, I could be a lot more forgiving... but they obviously know that most people won't stick around long enough for the verm system to pay off, so they want to get your 20 bucks up front. I think people should get to read some objective reviews about the game before they spend a dime on it. All the real info on the game posted by the players gets hidden in subscriber only areas of their forums.
Simply put... If the game isn't ready to be reviewed, they shouldn't be selling it.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
I'm amazed that people say we lied. At no time have we ever lied to anyone about this game. I guess you're using a different definition of lying than we are. If someone lies, they're deliberately telling you something that they know not to be true in order to decieve. We've never done that, and I challenge anyone to say honestly that we have. I would like you to point this lie out to me please.
I know you're not going to take my word for it, but I do not lie about the game, and none of the other devs have done so either.
You're more than welcome to call me and the others at RB liars...but no matter how many times you say it, it doesnt make it true.
"Rome wasn't coded in a day"
- Kanoth
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Things don't always go as planned in the gaming industry. It's a fact of life.
The graphics thing was said a long time ago. Then they stopped. The players kept repeating that, and it started getting more and more exagerrated.
I doubt you can find a single highly anticipated game where the devs never talked about anything that wasn't in release for the entire project.
Before launch, KFR provided a "State of the World" that said exactly what would be in at launch. That's what you should have paid attention to, not things planned months ago.
We're starting to get some of the features that didn't make it in at launch now. So let me ask you, how long are you planning on keeping this up? Months or years from now, are you going to be complaining that the launch wasn't perfect?
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
If they have updated the graphics, they should post some screens. It still doesn't change my original point that if the game wasn't ready to reviewed, it wasn't ready to be released. I believe that when reviews do come, they will fall more in line with the PCZone review than with the preview you tried pass off here. Your implication that I am trolling this forum to bash the game is simply not based in fact. What you posted was BS, people called you on it and you want to dismiss it all as trolling.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
I just want to know what super cool company you think has a better track record for delivering what they say they are going to than RB. Also please list what what you think has been deceptive about thier marketing. Because from what I have seen, you are full of hot air. Also, to make a comment like 'if it is not ready to be reviewed, it isnt ready to be released' is great if you are making a bumper sticker, but is pretty ignorant of both the realities of reviewing and the nature of MMOG's in general.
Oh, and screens were posted. Both here and on the RV boards.
The "graphics arent turned up" evolved from us saying, "the ground effects arent turned on". Ground effects would be 3d grass basically, that and more texture layers. Textures and character models did improve throughout the test. We intended to turn on the ground effects for launch, only to find SpeedTree came out with something (SpeedGrass) that looked a hell of alot better, and was a hell of alot easier to put in. We're just waiting to purchase it.
You're right, we do have different definitions of lying. What you're saying is lying is what I'd call just being wrong. If we believe that A=B, then later come to find out that A actually = C, then we werent lying, we were just wrong. And unfortunately, though we play gods in game, we're just as human IRL.
I know now what people were expecting graphics wise at launch, something like a jump from AO graphics to EQ2 graphics. We should have been more on top of that to correct people but we werent. It's a shame, but that's in the past now, the only way we're going now is foreward. I really am sorry to anyone that may have got the wrong idea, being head of the community that blame falls squarely on me.
"Rome wasn't coded in a day"
- Kanoth
That wasn't the only statement about the graphics. I can dig for quotes if you want me to, but it was stated that the graphics would be comparable to other modern MMOs, someone may have gone as far as saying better... but I would have to dig to verify that. Now, if that wasn't intentionally deceptive, it was at least looking at the game through some very thick rose colored glasses. I'm not a graphics whore by any means... I am currently playing AO. The RV graphics are about on par with AO, IMO... which is a 5 year old game.
I think you could have better addressed graphics concerns people brought up before launch by explaining the size of the development team and the budget constraints that limited graphics to what what they were at launch, which was consistent with the graphics people complained about in the screenshots.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Ok tbh i never bought this game for its graphics looks but but it was stated that the graphics on launch will be comparable to modern day mmorpg which is not so.
also the game has missing features and animals(don't give me this one guy once upon a time saw a wolf as qualifing for that).
I am not trying to prove RB lied or not.I expect on average things never to be as was promised once upon a time.
But before you make RB to be the perfect saints of mmorpg i can easily name a game which delievered exactly what it said would be on launch and more-EQ2(i think wow did too but would not list it as prove because i came late in beta on that).
With EQ2 i was one of the first beta testers as i got in with first batch of friends and family(i was an ex guide looong ago in EQ1).So i was there almost from after alpha and for many months.
I read all the planned features for launch and nothing was omitted from it.The only thing i ever saw SoE trolls pick on was the frogloks will be at launch and i eventually dug up a 6 months pre launch post where it confirmed that the frogloks will not be at launch
However,maybe a bit off topic as this thread is still basically a proven to be deception of a very old preview turned by sempiternal ALONE into a review.Is that legal lol.
"Virtual worlds are an object lession in achieving a lot without sacrifice. We need to ensure that the game is visually appealing and on a par with contemporary games whilst ensuring that thousands of other players can connect to the same world with hugely varying levels of hardware. "
Is that the quote you're talking about? Your right, KFR did say that in a community questions session. But keep in mind he said that on August 4th 2004.
I agree, I should have been a bit more clear. The main people on the forums knew about the size of the team, but visiters that are regulars on this site do not. So they wouldnt have known. I'm alot like you Salvatoris in regards to graphics. I dont consider myself someone that HAS to have the best graphics, but more than once I've picked up a game, looked at the back of the box, vomited, and placed it back on the shelf without even reading what it was about. Graphics grab people, gameplay keeps them. Its my opinion you need both.
It's something we've learned from. We're looking forward and the graphics will be improved with almost every patch. We're no where near done with it.
If that's not the right quote let me know. I think that's the one though.
"Rome wasn't coded in a day"
- Kanoth
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/49675/page/3
Not true of RV. Maybe of other Companies.
Here are a couple of old posts from KFR that still ring true.
"Sounds like it's time for me to shed some more light on the pics.
They were taken in third person view, which currently has a slight fisheye lense effect - this effect doesn't apply in first person view. This can sometimes make screenshots look slightly odd - warped even, particularly towards the edges.
The ground effects aren't on yet and we're only using one tile per ground surface, which is why the ground all looks a bit samey. Also the sky is just a default - it'll look more sensible when we have weather and time of day actually doing their bit. The clouds aren't even moving at the moment.
The people all have the same clothes because we're using a generic auxiliary character for all the testers at the moment.
The multi-coloured circle just noticeable in some pics is a side-effect of the screen capture utility I was using.
In short, these aren't publicity shots - they're much more candid. If I really wanted to wow people, I'd load up a variety of characters, stand them in exactly the right location, turn on some local ground effects and take a screenshot in first-person view. It would probably end up looking something like this.
But I thought it would be better right now to just take some quick screenshots of what actually goes on inside the GOCaT programme."
Or this:
"Kanoth is absolutely right. When you're building a massive virtual world from scratch, appearance is the very last thing you worry about - at least it is if you're doing it right, IMHO. That having been said, and as everyone here hopefully knows, we do welcome all criticism. It's just that this is some criticism that we were rather expecting and, to be honest, not too bothered about.
The cute effects that make us look like a big-brand MMORPG are really very trivial compared to the other things we have to worry about and do. It's much harder to build scalable software infrastructure and solid game mechanics and consequently that's where our focus remains at this stage of development. And believe it or not if we got the easy stuff out of the way first, then it would make some of the hard stuff harder to build and test accurately.
We are not a marketing/hype-based MMORPG developer and at the moment we're a developer that's never launched a product or service. Consequently, you won't see Roma Victor trying to muscle in on column inches in the gaming press or trying to appear on every online gaming web site there is, simply by punting out an almost meaningless assembled screenshot.
Instead, on this site and our fansites, you will see screenshots released of actual development, real testers and their genuine experiences. Most developers are shy of releasing such things in case they meet exactly this reaction - so they rush graphical features out in order to spruce up the screenshots and please the marketing people, who are eager to start making noises.
We won't sacrifice our development plan or schedule in any way to satisfy such whims at this stage. If people are turned away by the look of screenshots from the GOCaT testing then, frankly, I'm really not too bothered at this stage. Anyone making such superficial judgements about something so clearly incomplete will not bring much to this community or Roma Victor itself. And I'm quite sure that these same people will be making very different noises next year when they get to see some screenshots that look much better than they're expecting (because of the limits of their own imaginations, after all).
This, I should imagine, will pretty much be my final word on the subject until around this time next year. In the meantime I'll keep releasing screenshots of the ongoing GOCaT programme whenever I can. We're much more interested in this community than "the marketplace".
-KFR
P.S. The graphics engine is our own - built from scratch within this year. It's really rather sophisticated, extremely capable and integrates perfectly with the other engines that we've had to build - network, sound etc.
P.P.S. When we get to implement all the latest graphics features I'm actually pretty confident that we'll look better than most big-brand MMORPG's out there. After all we'll have most, if not all, of the same graphical systems that the others have and, in my opinion, we already have much better art material than most."
If you took the time Jorev to research your concerns and find the answers, you may just have a different outlook on the game. Head to our forums and use that search engine. You may be pleasenly surprised.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
You'll have to forgive me, I just read what was in bold. It just says when we get it implimented, doest say it'll all be done by release.
I'm trying to find that post on our forums. But since he mentioned "The graphics engine is our own - built from scratch within this year..." ...I'd say it's a pretty old post, maybe 04. May have been lost in the board change over last year. Unless it was posted by him on these boards somewhere. Tough to remember 4 and a half years of posts. lol
"Rome wasn't coded in a day"
- Kanoth
He does mention a bit of a time-frame in the quoted post. He says....
"We won't sacrifice our development plan or schedule in any way to satisfy such whims at this stage. If people are turned away by the look of screenshots from the GOCaT testing then, frankly, I'm really not too bothered at this stage. Anyone making such superficial judgements about something so clearly incomplete will not bring much to this community or Roma Victor itself. And I'm quite sure that these same people will be making very different noises next year when they get to see some screenshots that look much better than they're expecting (because of the limits of their own imaginations, after all). "
I can understand that things don't always go the way you intend them to. i understand you thinking it's a bit harsh to imply that people lied.... but I think you guys should have been a lot more forthcoming in conveying the graphics people should expect at launch. There are several posts on the subject dismissing it as low settings for beta. It was implied that the game would look better at launch... and I think people should be aware of exactly how far off the mark this game hit on its goal of looking "better than most big-brand MMORPG's out there." If there is a revised schedule for this game getting to that state, I would love to hear it. If, as I suspect, that goal has been completely revised, I'd like to hear that as well.
I do believe that reviews pointing out the state of the game, which is live, are well within their right. I know this point has been criticized before... but If you weren't ready for people to review it, maybe it wasn't ready to go live.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
~ GALLUS AHALA PLOTIUS
"Rome wasn't coded in a day"
- Kanoth
Actually i think he was trying to point out how this original topic hurts RV rather then helps it.
It goes for any game really.If a fan comes to a site and posts a over 1 year old preview and tags it a review ,it gives the impression that RV actually has a lot to hide and this is more or less a distortion of a preview to make it look more current by retagging it a review.
I am a fan of EQ2 and have to say if i see someone post some ancient preview and distort it to make it look like its a new review i too will flame the poster because an outsider will look at it as nothing more then a desperate attempt to win support for a game not doing so hot.
And indeed i been on this forum for ages.I played some other bad mmorpg(its my opinon RV is in a poor state ) but have rarely ever made many posts about it if ever.
But fans like sempiternal and a few others have gone out of their way since pre launch to distort the state of the game and there has to be a voice to state the reality of thing to avoid "false advertisment" existing.After all thats one of this site function to get information good or bad