Oh, and I'd consider WoW a PvP game for the most part, what with the PvP 'levels' and the battlegrounds and everything else.
Have you every played a good PvP game? (even a game thats good at PvP if its not a great overall game) Cause if you had you'd say nothing of the sort... And of course WotC are whoring Eberron, after they were bought out they released Magic Card expansions that all but made older cards obsolete to force/push people to buy new cards, and its the same thing with Eberron, Forgotten Realms is by far the most popular campain world, but people already have those books and box sets and they want your ass out there buying more. Now I understand the business dynamic, of course they are out to make money, but they are doing it in a style they pisses on their old customer base and thats pretty scheissty
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Antipathy, party dependency in DDO is not innovative. Most MMOs not only encourage party play but make it compulsory, and WOW is no different once you hit lv60. I have yet to play an MMO that my character was just as effective out of a party as in one, and i have never played an MMO where i was better off without a party (not including pvp). I have, on the other hand, played several MMOs where parties become 100% compulsory at level x (where x varies between games).
DDO's voice chat is innovative, and you're right it will probably be a staple in future MMOs.
IMO: I hardly consider wow a pvp game. Wow's pvp is so heavily regulated that although some challenge is still there, the excitement has been completely removed. Consentual, instanced pvp is dull and boring compared to open pvp, where the battle lines are not so clearly drawn and pvp may break out anytime, anywhere.
Originally posted by Sturmrabe Have you every played a good PvP game?
No, because that's an oxymoron. PvP is antiethical to RPGs.
Its hilarious when people post total opinion as if its fact.
The main reason that WoW isn't a PvP game is forced factions, no purpose, and items >>>>>> skill
But this isn't about WoW at all, so please lets stay on topic, I know most of you cannot get it through your heads that there are other MMO's out there, and WoW isn't even the gold standard, but try...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
But this isn't about WoW at all, so please lets stay on topic, I know most of you cannot get it through your heads that there are other MMO's out there, and WoW isn't even the gold standard, but try...
Do players fight players? Yes? PvP game.
Does Player Versus Player have _much_ of any role in RPGs whatsoever?
No.
That's not opinion, it's fact.
The fact that they're adding PvP into DDO makes it even more of a betrayal of the source material than it already was. For some reason even since UO people seem to think the magic trick is adding PvP to these games. It's self defeating unless it is very controlled or has severe consequences for the gank kiddies.
The LOTR solution is the perfect one because it gives both camps what they say they want and if there's whining, somebody has been telling porkies.
But this isn't about WoW at all, so please lets stay on topic, I know most of you cannot get it through your heads that there are other MMO's out there, and WoW isn't even the gold standard, but try...
Do players fight players? Yes? PvP game.
Does Player Versus Player have _much_ of any role in RPGs whatsoever?
No.
That's not opinion, it's fact.
The fact that they're adding PvP into DDO makes it even more of a betrayal of the source material than it already was. For some reason even since UO people seem to think the magic trick is adding PvP to these games. It's self defeating unless it is very controlled or has severe consequences for the gank kiddies.
The LOTR solution is the perfect one because it gives both camps what they say they want and if there's whining, somebody has been telling porkies.
I'll certainly grant you that, D+D player infighting was a big no-no
WHat DDO is doing is a perfect example of what I mean by a game not being a PvP game, when its tacked on and not an intrinsic component taken into account at the earlies staged of development its not a PvP game and is inevitably poorly implemented. Especially in such item dependant games as DDO and others (WoW)
Now, I cannot agree that PvP has no place in RPG's, but perhaps not in traditional RPGs of the D+D/EQ style, but not all RPGs have to fall into that style...
This is not a PvP debate though.
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Asheron's Call 1 is the best mmorpg i've ever played. I love turbine, never played DDO(simply because that seems a bit over the edge for me), but I'm very excited to play LOTR. It's understandable that you're not a turbine fan because of the whole AC2 thing i guess. Give it a shot, i'm backing them 100% with LOTR
Why don't you give DDO a shot before you get all crazy in love with Turbine, and I bet if you'd have played AC2 you'd be changing you tune as well...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Some corrections: AC2 had 5 races and alot of shops (vendors).
No, not until it was far too late to save it...
The problems with games like that, is like the problem with Vantard and what will happen if LOTRO doesn't get more variety of play soon:
There is not "comeback trail" for MMO's.
Vantard is already dead but it doesn't know it yet, much lick SWG... DDO is going nowhere but down, and LOTRO hasn't lived up to its potential and unless something amazing happens VERY soon it will atrophy down to the more die-hard fan niche audience... and MMOs are NOT made for niche audiences... or thats what devs say.
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Some corrections: AC2 had 5 races and alot of shops (vendors).
No, not until it was far too late to save it...
The problems with games like that, is like the problem with Vantard and what will happen if LOTRO doesn't get more variety of play soon:
There is not "comeback trail" for MMO's.
Vantard is already dead but it doesn't know it yet, much lick SWG... DDO is going nowhere but down, and LOTRO hasn't lived up to its potential and unless something amazing happens VERY soon it will atrophy down to the more die-hard fan niche audience... and MMOs are NOT made for niche audiences... or thats what devs say.
WoW digging up an old post of yours.
Well DDO was actually very well done it just wasn't what the mass audiences wanted. Turbine designed a game that would be played with friends just like you were sitting down and doing a PnP game. They miscalculated what their intended audience wanted.
LOTRO is a great game. I don't know why people complain about content. The only people that should complain are the hardcore powerlevelers. And guess what Turbine just isn't the game for them. AS seen in the interview with Turbine's president he doesn't believe in a traditional endgame. He believes in adding episodic content through the lifespan of the game. It worked great for AC1 and will work great for LOTRO. The first episode will release next week. It will add over 100 quests a 24 man raid to kill a dragon, another epic storyline book, a new area to explore, new monster play updates, class upgrades, music system upgrades, class armor sets, and more. Turbine has always added a ton of content in each of their free monthly updates. I bet if you took a look back at some of the updates in AC1 you would see more content added in 1-2 months on that game then WoW has had in its entire 2 years (minus the expansion) of updates.
Lord of the rings online has so much content actually that I have had to abandon dozens of quests that I outleveled and I am only level 39. That isn't counting all the quests in the Dwarf/elf areas and Shire that I never entered because I am playing a Human. I haven't entered entire dungeons because I leveled past them doing other quests and didn't feel like doing a 6 man dungeon. Heck I skipped half of book 1 and almost all of book 2 of the epic storylines. I have completed book 3 and 4 and am on the last step of 5.
Anyone who honestly thinks the game has no content either A. played constently and raced to the "endgame" when this is a game designed to have no endgame, or B hasn't played the game at all and is just rumour mongering what they have heard from others.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
"its always better to post in an existing thread than start a new one"
Anyway, I see so many threads these days about the derivative gameplay and boring/pointless/repetative quests...
Yeah, Turbind doesn't believe in traditional endgame content (added 24 man raids? yeah, very non-traditional), they just don't believe in content.. see: No vendors in a game that failed
Ac2.5 (LOTRO) was a beautiful idea placed in the hands of a mechanic instead of a sculptor...
We need artists, not engineers, to make the new games... sure, good GFX and server/game stability mean a lot, but not enough that that can be ALL you have going for you...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
"its always better to post in an existing thread than start a new one" Anyway, I see so many threads these days about the derivative gameplay and boring/pointless/repetative quests... Yeah, Turbind doesn't believe in traditional endgame content (added 24 man raids? yeah, very non-traditional), they just don't believe in content.. see: No vendors in a game that failed Ac2.5 (LOTRO) was a beautiful idea placed in the hands of a mechanic instead of a sculptor... We need artists, not engineers, to make the new games... sure, good GFX and server/game stability mean a lot, but not enough that that can be ALL you have going for you...
Wow you have no idea what you are talking about. Dont Believe in Content? Turbine has always been a company that adds tons and tons of free content to their games. Just because they tried something new with AC2 that didn't work out doesn't mean they do not believe in content. They have a game with a history of the most free updates of any major MMO (AC1), They have DDO which has had a ton of free updates, and they have LOTRO which launched with a ton of content and the first free updated added a lot more (whole new zone, 100 quests, etc).
And your whole point about Artists is moot, LOTRO looks like the world that Tolkien created. It isn't Turbine's fault that it doesn't look like my Kid's crayon box exploded on the world (like WoW).
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I'm with the OP, Turbine are a bunch of ham fisted shills! They make the blacklist for me for sure. Someday they may prove they have changed, but until then I won't give them a dime. I'm sad to have wasted the time in DDO and LOTRO at all.
"its always better to post in an existing thread than start a new one" Anyway, I see so many threads these days about the derivative gameplay and boring/pointless/repetative quests... Yeah, Turbind doesn't believe in traditional endgame content (added 24 man raids? yeah, very non-traditional), they just don't believe in content.. see: No vendors in a game that failed Ac2.5 (LOTRO) was a beautiful idea placed in the hands of a mechanic instead of a sculptor... We need artists, not engineers, to make the new games... sure, good GFX and server/game stability mean a lot, but not enough that that can be ALL you have going for you...
Wow you have no idea what you are talking about. Dont Believe in Content? Turbine has always been a company that adds tons and tons of free content to their games. Just because they tried something new with AC2 that didn't work out doesn't mean they do not believe in content. They have a game with a history of the most free updates of any major MMO (AC1), They have DDO which has had a ton of free updates, and they have LOTRO which launched with a ton of content and the first free updated added a lot more (whole new zone, 100 quests, etc).
And your whole point about Artists is moot, LOTRO looks like the world that Tolkien created. It isn't Turbine's fault that it doesn't look like my Kid's crayon box exploded on the world (like WoW).
The reason they "gave" all those great "free updates" is because they released the smallest, farthest from finish MMOs ever. I've seen free korean grinder MMOs twice that size...
I’ll give them props for having the first respect, but that was not nearly good enough.
Looks like you will have to take those props back LOL! AC2 was NOT the first mmorpg to have re-spec'ing. The ultra revolutionary Anarchy Online was the first mmorpg to allow players to fully respec their characters. cSWG implimented respec'ing the best, though it did come out after AC2.
I don't like the way they made DDO, but it was similiar to the PnP game and I guess thats what they wanted.
The 3rd edition rules are kinda crappy IMO. EQ and WoW both used a varient of the 2nd edition rules which admittedly had a lot ofrestrictions and imbalences, but was very balenced with regards to group and everyone having a role in the group.
I always hoped there would be a D&D MMO that encompased all the realms and allowed people to traverse them through the planes,but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. There is so much lore to work with it would be pretty awesome.
LOTRO is a pretty decent game. I'm not sure what you wanted. The LOTRO is it's own worst enemy because it's hindered byrestrictions due to the lore. You can't have to much magic for instance as there were only a few like Gandalf with powerful magic. You can't be a Ranger because there were only a few of them around at the time. Basically it's a tuff trilogy to make a game out of. Ithink they did a pretty good job with it though I doubt it will last very long.
I personally find Turbine to be the best MMO dev out there. They listen to the players, something that few devs do.
DDO is the game it is because of the D&D ruleset, not much you can do, Turbine had to implement it the way the copywrite holders wanted them too.
Lotro they had to implement it with the lore from Tolkien, also limiting what they could do, as they had to come up with monster play to substitute for pvp.
AC was one of the most innovative games in the genre. Still a good game today, except for the outdated graphics.
I would take Turbine over SOE any day in the week.
I think DDO was done poorly, but I LOVE LOTRO. There really wan't that much they could have done PVP-wise with the direction they went, and I think the direction they went was very wise.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
"its always better to post in an existing thread than start a new one" Anyway, I see so many threads these days about the derivative gameplay and boring/pointless/repetative quests... Yeah, Turbind doesn't believe in traditional endgame content (added 24 man raids? yeah, very non-traditional), they just don't believe in content.. see: No vendors in a game that failed Ac2.5 (LOTRO) was a beautiful idea placed in the hands of a mechanic instead of a sculptor... We need artists, not engineers, to make the new games... sure, good GFX and server/game stability mean a lot, but not enough that that can be ALL you have going for you...
Wow you have no idea what you are talking about. Dont Believe in Content? Turbine has always been a company that adds tons and tons of free content to their games. Just because they tried something new with AC2 that didn't work out doesn't mean they do not believe in content. They have a game with a history of the most free updates of any major MMO (AC1), They have DDO which has had a ton of free updates, and they have LOTRO which launched with a ton of content and the first free updated added a lot more (whole new zone, 100 quests, etc).
And your whole point about Artists is moot, LOTRO looks like the world that Tolkien created. It isn't Turbine's fault that it doesn't look like my Kid's crayon box exploded on the world (like WoW).
The reason they "gave" all those great "free updates" is because they released the smallest, farthest from finish MMOs ever. I've seen free korean grinder MMOs twice that size...
Have you ever even played a Turbine game? DDO is small, but it is meant to be. It was trying to capture the feel of PnP roleplaying. Especially getting together with your friends and having a dungeon crawl night. Today's MMO player doesn't identify with that type of playing. But it wasn't too small for the type of world they designed. LOTRO has a great starting world size it has a ton of content packed into the world already. I have seen numbers of quests for LOTRO putting it up with WoW for most amount of quests at launch. Yes they didn't design the whole world yet, but I would rather have a well made non buggy smaller space to start with, then Vanguard's huge barren wasteland. But Turbine can DO huge worlds. Asheron's Call 1 had one of the largest worlds to explore (with no zoning) when it launched in 1999. It was huge with tons of area to explore and yet they have still added more content and land to that world. with 2 expansions and 8 years of free monthly updates.
They are definitely not the Farthest from finish MMO games. Vanguard was worse then LOTRO, DAOC was less finished then LOTRO (Hibernia's level 30+ dungeons didn't have any items dropping from mobs when the game launched), Heck WoW even launched less finished (since they hadn't added in Dire Maul or mauradon at launch. Plus they didn't have a PVP system implemented at launch).
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
But this isn't about WoW at all, so please lets stay on topic, I know most of you cannot get it through your heads that there are other MMO's out there, and WoW isn't even the gold standard, but try...
Do players fight players?
Yes?
PvP game.
Does Player Versus Player have _much_ of any role in RPGs whatsoever?
No.
That's not opinion, it's fact. WoW i gues if you say so itmustbe true.
The fact that they're adding PvP into DDO makes it even more of a betrayal of the source material than it already was. For some reason even since UO people seem to think the magic trick is adding PvP to these games. It's self defeating unless it is very controlled or has severe consequences for the gank kiddies.
The LOTR solution is the perfect one because it gives both camps what they say they want and if there's whining, somebody has been telling porkies. LOTRO is crap not just for the lack of PvP But i guess because you say Its perfect it must be perfect and i was Halucinating when i played it.
Thing is even in stories based on D&D you get rival groups of heroes fighting over some relic so there is PvP in D&D you are just someone who doesant like PvP.
So stupid it hurts my brain. LotRO is a PvE game, DDO is a quest-PvE game. Get over it. There are armies of people that like these concepts.
It's not like "hey, we are Turbine, let's screw up this franchise". They simply made the games they thought were fun; and they ultimately had to exclude certain player-types. It's not even any point in disussing this.
It't not "PvP games are good" or "PvE games are good"... Games can be good or bad for different people for various reasons.
What DOES matter is the fact that both games are somewhat well done and no (longer, in the case of DDO) cheesy bugfests.
So, it's not the game you like? ---> Get over it. Many like it.
Comments
Oh, and I'd consider WoW a PvP game for the most part, what with the PvP 'levels' and the battlegrounds and everything else.
Have you every played a good PvP game? (even a game thats good at PvP if its not a great overall game) Cause if you had you'd say nothing of the sort... And of course WotC are whoring Eberron, after they were bought out they released Magic Card expansions that all but made older cards obsolete to force/push people to buy new cards, and its the same thing with Eberron, Forgotten Realms is by far the most popular campain world, but people already have those books and box sets and they want your ass out there buying more. Now I understand the business dynamic, of course they are out to make money, but they are doing it in a style they pisses on their old customer base and thats pretty scheissty
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Postmortem Studios
Roleplaying games to DIE for
Shop here
Antipathy, party dependency in DDO is not innovative. Most MMOs not only encourage party play but make it compulsory, and WOW is no different once you hit lv60. I have yet to play an MMO that my character was just as effective out of a party as in one, and i have never played an MMO where i was better off without a party (not including pvp). I have, on the other hand, played several MMOs where parties become 100% compulsory at level x (where x varies between games).
DDO's voice chat is innovative, and you're right it will probably be a staple in future MMOs.
IMO: I hardly consider wow a pvp game. Wow's pvp is so heavily regulated that although some challenge is still there, the excitement has been completely removed. Consentual, instanced pvp is dull and boring compared to open pvp, where the battle lines are not so clearly drawn and pvp may break out anytime, anywhere.
Its hilarious when people post total opinion as if its fact.
The main reason that WoW isn't a PvP game is forced factions, no purpose, and items >>>>>> skill
But this isn't about WoW at all, so please lets stay on topic, I know most of you cannot get it through your heads that there are other MMO's out there, and WoW isn't even the gold standard, but try...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Yes?
PvP game.
Does Player Versus Player have _much_ of any role in RPGs whatsoever?
No.
That's not opinion, it's fact.
The fact that they're adding PvP into DDO makes it even more of a betrayal of the source material than it already was. For some reason even since UO people seem to think the magic trick is adding PvP to these games. It's self defeating unless it is very controlled or has severe consequences for the gank kiddies.
The LOTR solution is the perfect one because it gives both camps what they say they want and if there's whining, somebody has been telling porkies.
Postmortem Studios
Roleplaying games to DIE for
Shop here
I'll certainly grant you that, D+D player infighting was a big no-no
WHat DDO is doing is a perfect example of what I mean by a game not being a PvP game, when its tacked on and not an intrinsic component taken into account at the earlies staged of development its not a PvP game and is inevitably poorly implemented. Especially in such item dependant games as DDO and others (WoW)
Now, I cannot agree that PvP has no place in RPG's, but perhaps not in traditional RPGs of the D+D/EQ style, but not all RPGs have to fall into that style...
This is not a PvP debate though.
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
No, not until it was far too late to save it...
The problems with games like that, is like the problem with Vantard and what will happen if LOTRO doesn't get more variety of play soon:
There is not "comeback trail" for MMO's.
Vantard is already dead but it doesn't know it yet, much lick SWG... DDO is going nowhere but down, and LOTRO hasn't lived up to its potential and unless something amazing happens VERY soon it will atrophy down to the more die-hard fan niche audience... and MMOs are NOT made for niche audiences... or thats what devs say.
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
No, not until it was far too late to save it...
The problems with games like that, is like the problem with Vantard and what will happen if LOTRO doesn't get more variety of play soon:
There is not "comeback trail" for MMO's.
Vantard is already dead but it doesn't know it yet, much lick SWG... DDO is going nowhere but down, and LOTRO hasn't lived up to its potential and unless something amazing happens VERY soon it will atrophy down to the more die-hard fan niche audience... and MMOs are NOT made for niche audiences... or thats what devs say.
WoW digging up an old post of yours.
Well DDO was actually very well done it just wasn't what the mass audiences wanted. Turbine designed a game that would be played with friends just like you were sitting down and doing a PnP game. They miscalculated what their intended audience wanted.
LOTRO is a great game. I don't know why people complain about content. The only people that should complain are the hardcore powerlevelers. And guess what Turbine just isn't the game for them. AS seen in the interview with Turbine's president he doesn't believe in a traditional endgame. He believes in adding episodic content through the lifespan of the game. It worked great for AC1 and will work great for LOTRO. The first episode will release next week. It will add over 100 quests a 24 man raid to kill a dragon, another epic storyline book, a new area to explore, new monster play updates, class upgrades, music system upgrades, class armor sets, and more. Turbine has always added a ton of content in each of their free monthly updates. I bet if you took a look back at some of the updates in AC1 you would see more content added in 1-2 months on that game then WoW has had in its entire 2 years (minus the expansion) of updates.
Lord of the rings online has so much content actually that I have had to abandon dozens of quests that I outleveled and I am only level 39. That isn't counting all the quests in the Dwarf/elf areas and Shire that I never entered because I am playing a Human. I haven't entered entire dungeons because I leveled past them doing other quests and didn't feel like doing a 6 man dungeon. Heck I skipped half of book 1 and almost all of book 2 of the epic storylines. I have completed book 3 and 4 and am on the last step of 5.
Anyone who honestly thinks the game has no content either A. played constently and raced to the "endgame" when this is a game designed to have no endgame, or B hasn't played the game at all and is just rumour mongering what they have heard from others.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
"its always better to post in an existing thread than start a new one"
Anyway, I see so many threads these days about the derivative gameplay and boring/pointless/repetative quests...
Yeah, Turbind doesn't believe in traditional endgame content (added 24 man raids? yeah, very non-traditional), they just don't believe in content.. see: No vendors in a game that failed
Ac2.5 (LOTRO) was a beautiful idea placed in the hands of a mechanic instead of a sculptor...
We need artists, not engineers, to make the new games... sure, good GFX and server/game stability mean a lot, but not enough that that can be ALL you have going for you...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
And your whole point about Artists is moot, LOTRO looks like the world that Tolkien created. It isn't Turbine's fault that it doesn't look like my Kid's crayon box exploded on the world (like WoW).
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Sorry if someone already said this, I didn’t read all the posts.
Make that 3, you forgot shadowrun.
Lets hope they don't mess up Top Secret.
Yeah seriously, shadowrun had sooo much potential and it is just ruined now.
I'm with the OP, Turbine are a bunch of ham fisted shills! They make the blacklist for me for sure. Someday they may prove they have changed, but until then I won't give them a dime. I'm sad to have wasted the time in DDO and LOTRO at all.
And your whole point about Artists is moot, LOTRO looks like the world that Tolkien created. It isn't Turbine's fault that it doesn't look like my Kid's crayon box exploded on the world (like WoW).
The reason they "gave" all those great "free updates" is because they released the smallest, farthest from finish MMOs ever. I've seen free korean grinder MMOs twice that size...
Looks like you will have to take those props back LOL! AC2 was NOT the first mmorpg to have re-spec'ing. The ultra revolutionary Anarchy Online was the first mmorpg to allow players to fully respec their characters. cSWG implimented respec'ing the best, though it did come out after AC2.
I don't like the way they made DDO, but it was similiar to the PnP game and I guess thats what they wanted.
The 3rd edition rules are kinda crappy IMO. EQ and WoW both used a varient of the 2nd edition rules which admittedly had a lot ofrestrictions and imbalences, but was very balenced with regards to group and everyone having a role in the group.
I always hoped there would be a D&D MMO that encompased all the realms and allowed people to traverse them through the planes,but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. There is so much lore to work with it would be pretty awesome.
LOTRO is a pretty decent game. I'm not sure what you wanted. The LOTRO is it's own worst enemy because it's hindered byrestrictions due to the lore. You can't have to much magic for instance as there were only a few like Gandalf with powerful magic. You can't be a Ranger because there were only a few of them around at the time. Basically it's a tuff trilogy to make a game out of. Ithink they did a pretty good job with it though I doubt it will last very long.
I personally find Turbine to be the best MMO dev out there. They listen to the players, something that few devs do.
DDO is the game it is because of the D&D ruleset, not much you can do, Turbine had to implement it the way the copywrite holders wanted them too.
Lotro they had to implement it with the lore from Tolkien, also limiting what they could do, as they had to come up with monster play to substitute for pvp.
AC was one of the most innovative games in the genre. Still a good game today, except for the outdated graphics.
I would take Turbine over SOE any day in the week.
I think DDO was done poorly, but I LOVE LOTRO. There really wan't that much they could have done PVP-wise with the direction they went, and I think the direction they went was very wise.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
And your whole point about Artists is moot, LOTRO looks like the world that Tolkien created. It isn't Turbine's fault that it doesn't look like my Kid's crayon box exploded on the world (like WoW).
The reason they "gave" all those great "free updates" is because they released the smallest, farthest from finish MMOs ever. I've seen free korean grinder MMOs twice that size...
Have you ever even played a Turbine game? DDO is small, but it is meant to be. It was trying to capture the feel of PnP roleplaying. Especially getting together with your friends and having a dungeon crawl night. Today's MMO player doesn't identify with that type of playing. But it wasn't too small for the type of world they designed. LOTRO has a great starting world size it has a ton of content packed into the world already. I have seen numbers of quests for LOTRO putting it up with WoW for most amount of quests at launch. Yes they didn't design the whole world yet, but I would rather have a well made non buggy smaller space to start with, then Vanguard's huge barren wasteland. But Turbine can DO huge worlds. Asheron's Call 1 had one of the largest worlds to explore (with no zoning) when it launched in 1999. It was huge with tons of area to explore and yet they have still added more content and land to that world. with 2 expansions and 8 years of free monthly updates.They are definitely not the Farthest from finish MMO games. Vanguard was worse then LOTRO, DAOC was less finished then LOTRO (Hibernia's level 30+ dungeons didn't have any items dropping from mobs when the game launched), Heck WoW even launched less finished (since they hadn't added in Dire Maul or mauradon at launch. Plus they didn't have a PVP system implemented at launch).
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
In the end it is all a matter of taste. Played them both and like them both.
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Do I ever sleep?
Registration at MMORPG.com, 5 minutes.
Reading a thread to get the varied opinions, 10 minutes.
Having a Big Purple McDonalds mascot post a completely Asinine statement, Timeless.
Grimachu = The Japanese CCG version of Grimace, some say a genetic alteration of Grimace and Pikachu.
- Burying Threads Since 1979 -
Registration at MMORPG.com, 5 minutes.
Reading a thread to get the varied opinions, 10 minutes.
Having a Big Purple McDonalds mascot post a completely Asinine statement, Timeless.
Grimachu = The Japanese CCG version of Grimace, some say a genetic alteration of Grimace and Pikachu.
heh..thats too damn funny
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Yes?
PvP game.
Does Player Versus Player have _much_ of any role in RPGs whatsoever?
No.
That's not opinion, it's fact. WoW i gues if you say so it must be true.
The fact that they're adding PvP into DDO makes it even more of a betrayal of the source material than it already was. For some reason even since UO people seem to think the magic trick is adding PvP to these games. It's self defeating unless it is very controlled or has severe consequences for the gank kiddies.
The LOTR solution is the perfect one because it gives both camps what they say they want and if there's whining, somebody has been telling porkies. LOTRO is crap not just for the lack of PvP But i guess because you say Its perfect it must be perfect and i was Halucinating when i played it.
Thing is even in stories based on D&D you get rival groups of heroes fighting over some relic so there is PvP in D&D you are just someone who doesant like PvP.
So stupid it hurts my brain. LotRO is a PvE game, DDO is a quest-PvE game. Get over it. There are armies of people that like these concepts.
It's not like "hey, we are Turbine, let's screw up this franchise". They simply made the games they thought were fun; and they ultimately had to exclude certain player-types. It's not even any point in disussing this.
It't not "PvP games are good" or "PvE games are good"... Games can be good or bad for different people for various reasons.
What DOES matter is the fact that both games are somewhat well done and no (longer, in the case of DDO) cheesy bugfests.
So, it's not the game you like? ---> Get over it. Many like it.
Meridion