Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
General: Editorial: Sexism in MMOGs
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
News Editor Jon Wood pens this week's editorial. He looks at sexism in MMORPGs and whether or not it is limited to just the way developers create female avatars. Wood argues, men too are affected by it.
| "The portrayal of women in video games is disgusting."
That's a quotation I've heard many times, from both men and women alike. The truth is that they have a point. Most of the time, female avatars are portrayed with large breasts, small waistlines and finely toned bodies all around. Commonly, the blame for this is put on the fact that "sex sells" and game development is a male dominated industry. |
You can read more here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
However, I'm a very short male (bordering 170cm, 5'7") and I have never really been the subject of discrimination because of my short stature. In fact, all my life it has given me numerous advantages - whether in fights (I practice martial arts), girls, or elsewhere. That may have something to do with my personal choice, however - I greatly prefer girls who are just as tall (short) as I am. And I'll be far more likely to find a girl like that being my length than if I were, say, 195cm. And most modern MMORPGs give you the choice of how short or tall you want your avatar to be, so I find it is not as much of a problem as mr. Wood makes it out to be.
However, what I do find to be sexism towards both men and women in MMORPGs is indeed the choice in female avatars. It sets an unrealistic (and often not pretty either) standard for women - and it makes men out to be sex-obsessed who somehow feel attracted to a cluster of pixels, while the vast majority of all men don't nearly think about sex as much as is often stereotypical.
There's unrealistic images on both sides of the line - but time and time again people keep getting realism confused with the goal of making the game fun. Realism is for Real Life, keep it out of our games.
There should be more avatar choices in general, that much is true - both for males and females.
One point the article didn't mention is the exact same trend in movies, models, most modern bands, and even in books - the main character is rarely portrayed as a noticably obese, cross-eyed, pimply-faced-youth ( ^_^ )
It's just not how the average consumer visualises the main character - and thus the author of the image usually makes the avatar look more like the ideal archetype of a hero/villain.
Who wants to fantasise about being overweight, flat-chested, or a scrawny sword-swinger (for magic users this last one seems much more OK). Not many, there are some - and therefore these should be options. but they're not exactly the high priority.
More hairstyles ftw.
Well, there are less than popularly "ideal" male and female characters - dwarves, orcs, undead, Tauren (in WoW), etc. Not all of the characters are Angelina and Brad (or Ah-nuld).
But the truth is, these are fantasy settings in an escapist venue. Looking better in game than you do in real life is as much a part of that fantasy as being braver, more heroic and more powerful than you are in real life.
Let's face it. If there was a fire breathing dragon in a cave in my neighborhood, no way in hell am I going in there with a sword. I'm calling 911 and moving my family to Iowa. But in game, I am Dudley Doright who wades in and bashes the bad guy to save the world. Is that a sexist view of my role as a man? You bet it is and I love every minute of it lol.
There is also the glass half full aspect of mmos. Sure, women may look slutty in some games, but they fight just as effectively as the men. They lead raids. They lead guilds. They win at PvP. I think this helps break down some sterotypes, even if it doesn't break them all down.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Perhaps the true problem is society's ideals, and humanity's general inability to see past them.
There are some games that enable outside-the-box choices, such as SWG.
The avatar creation system is still one of the best, containing the
potential for all kinds of avatars, from thin to fat, busty to flat,
and a bunch of alien races that society generally finds unattractive.
I will confess that I have no qualms about gawking at an attractively
assembled assortment of pixels. I play games to escape from the real
world for a while, and while I like to see realism in a fantasy
environment, I have no problem with enjoying certain looks. Perhaps
because they inspire my imagination, spark some sexual feeling, or just
look really cool. It's hard to say. Though not to say that's the only
reason I log on in an evening. For me the experience with others is
defined by their heart and deeds. However, I have personally learned to
look beyond society's labels. I can find attractiveness and
insipiration and all kinds of things, and rarely could I give a flying
monkey about what "the cool kids" think.
I think that we are all of us, especially as individuals, responsible
for seeing past what society tells us is cool. Naturally, I'm as intune
with my baser instincts as the next person, and affected to some degree
by what the marketing departments say is good for me. But it doesn't
define my actions. Close-minded acceptance of ideals and peer pressure
is what leads game developers into creating so few options at character
creation, and why so many of us /smooch every perfect female avatar
that runs by.
Not to sound like an anarchist, but I feel there's nought wrong with
thinking for one's self, and going one's own way; regardless of what
everyone else says.
Also, the way men and women perceive images of the opposite sex differs. Have you ever seen a group of female players clustered and whooping around a dancing male character?
I don't think the problems and pressures applied by games weigh in with anywhere like the same pressure as TV, movies and magazines, but the look of characters are definitely designed to cater to the male protion of the audience (which, considering the percentages involved, is hardly a surprise)
But to cry "Men are discriminated against too!' seems a bit weak. You aren't. The seriousness of prejudice has to be measured in the amount of risk of consequences that can occur. I'm pretty sure you'll be OK fella!
The virtual world has simple deluded the normal "pretty" and "beautiful" and somehow believe it's the same as "hot" and "sexy"... The teens dig it and the young women probably believe "sexy" equals beasutiful at some points.
The ideals lie around looking like almost as if you were a homosexual guy, or some muscle tinman, with a pinch of stand-up comedian, while with young women it's about looking some sort of pornstar just because you happend to see Britney or Christina in almost no clothes, while the business looks seems to bring most on the escape route.
looks looks looks... i picked tauren just because of racial abilities, had i wanted looks i would probably been an orc or an elf (lol).
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
There is no sexism in MMOs just like everyone has said so far...I have a huge muscular barbarian and my girl friend has a mage with a tight bum. There is no chauvinism in these games...my girl friend is the leader of a guild. And YES sex sells.
When we put every factor that this editorial has produced together we get:
-There is no sexism in MMOs.
-Pop-culture causes depression by bombarding us with media that tells us how we should be and look.
-Some times depression can cause us to become lost in our own fantasy(MMO avatars).
-And that Fight Club is right, that our only tragedy is our lives now and that we should blow up credit card buildings (and microsoft) and grow corn off of some abandon super highway to gain our spirituality again.
(I don't know where that last bit came from, I think from the frustration of pop-culture and the fact that anyone should have to defend MMOs against sexism)
part that perhaps women are more overtly discriminated against, and the
sexism is perhaps much more readily visible regarding women.
I for one have seen female characters whooping at a half-naked dancing
elf. Though it is fair to say that these people could easily be men
behind the screen.
But there is an alternate side to sexism, and men are discriminated
against. Have you ever heard the saying, "The clothes make the man"?
Perhaps men are not so quickly discriminated against due to our looks,
but we are just as quickly judged as women are on apperance. In
reality, I have long hair, and tend to dress casual. But I am just as
quickly judged as being scruffy, or a hippy even. Just as easily judged
as a woman is for wearing a short skirt and being being immediately
seen as a slut.
Varying levels of seriousness aside, we are all discriminated against according to society's ideals, in some form or another.
When I want to see real people in their true forms I go out and socialize. I do this quite frequently even though I'm classified as a "gamer".
When I game I do it for entertainment. I also read for entertainment although the nature of the books I read could be disputed as entertaining; physics and biographies on physisicists.
I am one of those males who almost always plays a female character. Like a movie or a good story that focuses on the female heroine I tend to find enjoyment outside of the normal mussle bound bone heads who save the world in nearly every movie and story written.
It *could* be possible to call me a sexist since I would rather view abnormal disportionate dimensions on my female character then the back side of a thick browed bone head. T & A interests me.
Like watching the latest Hollowood blockbusters with the summers largest explosions on screen does not mark someone as an anarchist, nor does watching SAW III denote someone as a potential murderer, liking phycically fit characters in a gaming environment does not make anyone a sexist.
And yes, I like large boobies. That does not mean I descrimanate agasint women. A friend I've known for *years* and I had a conversation about this last night. Asking him what his wife thinks of him playing all female characters with large boobs he said she just rolls her eyes or whaps him on the back of the head without placing a second thought on it. I think that's the best responce to something like this.
I diasagree with the premise that avatars in games are a result of sexism comming from the developers, they design and create avatar options people will want to play. If they programed in a Female avatar that was over weight, odd proportions, skin blemishes, or even a way to exactly mimic the person playing, very few people, me included, will pick an avatar that looks exactly what I or they look like.
The point of a Role Playing Game is to play a Role, to be something different than you are, and having played many MMORPG's and created or maintained many large communities of players within those games, I have had the oppurtunity to meet quite a few female gamers, and the thing that stands out to me is most of them pick thier race based on the attactiveness of the avatar. A friend of mine in World of Warcraft never wanted to play horde side based on there being no attractive female avatars, which Blizzard must have heard from droves of other female gamers as the tailored the next race for the Horde side to meet those needs. If I were to ask the question, "How did you pick the Race you play in game?" I would bet the majority of female gamers will answer, "because the way the avatar looked" and the majority of the male gamers will spout off stats or abilities they want in game as it pertains to the class they will be playing.
It seems to me it is us, the gamers, who have the problem, if there was more demand for avatars that exactly reflected our proportions the developers would be all too happy to give us what we want, as long as we keep send in the check. I think the Developers understand thier target audience very well.
Rage - Head Honcho of the Revilers
"Ragemore and Whine Less"
A great article and I completely agree with the fact "In-Game" both genders seem to fall victim to the whims of what seems to be the ideal physcial attributes of the human (or non-human) body.
BUT, take it one step further and I think it starts to become clear that the gaming industry is clearly sending a signal that, while it may also apply to men now and again, the over sexualization of the female persona is what they are going for.
---------------------------------
Exhibit A: Game Boxes.
Look at the front of many games boxes with female characters in feature. To start with quite often that character doesn't even have anything to do with the game but almost every single time she's posted on the front of the box half naked or in barely-able-breath outfits, in some kind of sexy pose and almost always with "that" look on her face.
Exhibit B: Promo Material and Game Events.
Hmmm, how many slinked, oiled up, hulking cute boys did you guys ever see at conventions? OK so many every year there was a handfull if that many? Now! How many of super slinky, wearing barely there clothing 'booth babes" did you see, well let's just say we know that there was upon many of them.
How about promotional material, look at almost every poster L2 has ever released and notice what it is... yup, half naked elvish girls doing there best to look hot.
Oh and does anyone remember the Hunt for Antonia Bayle? The winner of which went on to be featured in a soft core porn mag in full Antonia Bayle get up. This was sponsored by SOE themselves by the way, oh right and was also supported by this very site. Side note here, the girl later went on to be in two full out adult magazines.
Exhibit C: In Games.
Sure both men and women in MMO are subject to the same perfect body stereotype and I'll be honest with you, I really don't mind that part.
Hell my body is far from perfect in real life and it never will be but boy can I have great abs and a great butt in EQ2! Even in SWG where it was easy to make a slightly pudgy, out of shape girl, you didn't see them very often though. And hey, how many guys make there toons all rounded off in the middle, especially when you can have those nice little six packs.
But look at everything else in game, armor sets for the female characters is a prime example. Usually it means having less material to cover up with from the very start and almost every single time it means having less and less clothing as the armor itself is supposed to protect more and more. While I love to have stylish clothing in any game to play with and I'd never be apposed to skin, when it comes down to it the female body is just very attractive, but at the very least have options for when you might feel like being covered up some.
Oh and how about jiggle physics anyone? I've yet to see much jiggle on any part of the male body in a game?
Exhibit
Playing in Game and being in the community. This is a big one for me.
Now I'm not going to say LOTS or most or TONS but there are many, many female gamers out there now and "many" of those are playing MMOs. Yet to this day if I'm playing an MMO and get on a vent server just to talk with friends, it will happen almost every time without fail that some sort of rude remark is made. Now I'm not bitching about it and I sincerely believe that you either deal with it or go read a book, but it's there. Beyond that, no one cares.
I've been torn to threads in public chats in games for being female and it's gotten to the point where I've actually reported it due to harrasment but was told that nothing would happen because it wasn't considered a violation of the TOS. Happens, whatever, shake it off and move on. But if someone had made a racist comment, boy can you bet that it would have been delt with real quick.
Same thing happens on these boards really, I've been called every name in the book here, from fat lesbian feminist to being told to be get back in the kitchen, yet surprise ! Nothing ever happens, which is fine but again, there's an obvious double standard there or at the very least a lack of willingness to accept it exists.
-------------------------------------------------
So all that to say that I completely agree that it's an issue and it affects both genders but I think it's important we keep an open mind towards the fact that it does affect the female gender just a bit more and that it's important it's talked about at the very least.
Young girls are getting into the market now and at some point we have to start to become responsible for they have portrayed in the industry. It does not have to loose it's sex appeal but it does have to be respectfull. For everyone in the commmunity.
PS:
Sorry for the long post if you managed to read through all of it, I just think it's very important topic and tend to get carried away.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
and as payment she summoned her succubus for me, then they got so
excited they joined in.
PS the hunter wasn't a dwarf
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
Regrettably, the marketing groups are perhaps more cynical that we
forum users are. And as regrettable as it may be, sex simply does sell.
Come-to-bed-eyed elf girls with oversized hooters, and a lack of
protection triggers the simplistic and genetic triggers in the male of
our species, leading to more purchases. Arguably, fully-armoured
warriors covered in blood triggers a similar response in male consumers.
Now here's a thought: perhaps women of the world should perhaps be
using these stereotypes, and this power that they can so easily wield
over man to better their collective lot in life, and turn the tide of
male chauvanism. Don't cave my head on or anything, it's just a
thought, and meant with all respect. The possibilities aside, I know
one thing: if the love of my life puts on a pouty face, even in jest,
you can put any kind of contract you fancy in front of my nose; I'll
sign it!
Nice article! It's good to see that this issue is being highlighted.
I'm a fan of the Gothic series for instance but I'm annoyed how women are presented(at the few times they are at all presented) in it. Sure, it's a Dark Age era with a patriarchal society, but it's like the female gender can't be pictured any other way than vulnerable, sexy and unimportant. Gothic 2 was one of the "better" since it included some "named" characters. A witch and a prostitute. I haven't met a named female character yet in Gothic 3 and the voices are weak and vulnerable. *sigh*
When a woman is strong and independent in a game, they're also likely sexy. They hardly have any muscles, yet can wield double-bladed axes. And with the physics engines, developers can now fulfill their wet dreams of huge breasts bouncing after every single motion.
The males are of course also a victim of stereotypes with their big muscles. However I feel that it's more tolerated to have an "ugly" male character than an "ugly" female character. Just look at WoW where orc males are big and brutal looking while females have more of the human like beauty standards. The same with trolls where males are very nicely designed while females have only some fangs and pointy ears. For God forbid females to step out of the norm.
Of course the option should be there if you want to play a character that is sexy or brutal, but todays game doesn't leave much of a choice for female characters. It's either sexy and agile or nothing.
This is of course not a new issue. Every day we are feeded with these messages where women are presented sexy and available and men strong and determined.
The fight against sexism takes place on all fronts but somehow the gaming industry is still far behind. I hope the awareness in these questions increases. It's a good sign that forums like these discuss them however. Keep it up!
Yet to this day if I'm playing an MMO and get on a vent server just to talk with friends, it will happen almost every time without fail that some sort of rude remark is made. Now I'm not bitching about it and I sincerely believe that you either deal with it or go read a book, but it's there. Beyond that, no one cares.
------------------------------------------------
This has yet to happen to my wife. I think a lot of it is a function of who you hang around with.
Teenage boys are juvenile and sophmoric whether they're in WoW or in High School.
If you're jumping on some random vent server with folks, and getting flack, I'm willing to bet it's from someone who feels that way in real life, not *because* of the game. The game simply allows them to express it (and often the anonymous nature of the 'net allows them to feel free to do so). But is that problem the game's issue, or the person's?
As a random data point: My wife doesn't like playing Horde, because they're ugly. Several other women I've talked to feel the same way. Clearly, Blizzard felt that was the case as well, since we have Blood Elves on the Horde side now.
I also take issue with the sweeping nature of this article. WoW has plenty of unattractive models on the Horde side. Star Wars Galaxies allowed you to create characters as ugly and overweight as you wanted. Even City of Heroes, with the idealized superhero, has the option to make some pretty downright ugly folks. But I will agree that the cover for WoW still has a slinky night elf face, and the women on CoH and SWG's boxc art aren't ugly.
And sure, Lineage and Lineage 2 are sex. EQ's blonde elf bimbo is sex. I mean, Korean games are notorious for being horrible for women avatars....
And again, it all comes back to the question: Are the avatars sexy because that's all that sells, or is that all that sells because all the avatars are sexy?
I ramble. But, you know, that's okay.
Who am I?
@Lorechaser on CoH
Badjuju, Splinterhoof, Plainsrunner on WoW (Moonrunner)
Shyy'rissk on SWG (Flurry)
ClockworkSoldier, HE Pierce, Letnev on Planetside
Gyshe, Crucible, Terrakal on DDO
And many more.
sexism, is that girls are being forced into more adult and provocative
at terribly young ages. Reguarly I see young girls of 10-12 on the
streets, dolled up with makeup, jewelry and fashionable (suggestive)
clothing. Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I don't see why girls of 10
should have the need to be making themselves more attractive (consider
that word and it's meaning).
This is something I see as a very real and dangerous side to society's
ideals, and I do entertain the belief that females are under
considerably more pressure to conform to society's ideals of what is
fashionable. Fair to say that males are under similar pressure, but
dressing up as knights and wizards generally doesn't get us stalked by
pedophiles and other such types. Dressing girls up in make up and
revealing elvish princess outfits however...
Big boobs aren't sexist, anymore than being beautiful in real life is sexist. If that was the case, then God is sexist since he made big boobs and beautiful people.
The reality is, the ideals of beauty are hardwired into our brains. It's in our programming. So it makes sense to me that when we develop the capacity to create virtual worlds, we incorporate those ideals into its programming.
Beautiful people in life have advantages over ugly people....every study I have ever seen on the subject supports this....so I refuse to now think of these beautiful people as 'victims'.
And let's be realistic. When's the last time you looked at a fat, ugly, short person in real life and said....I would love to trade places with him/her. Ofcourse, there are probably some folks out there that reject beauty and find it repulsive. But for most people, I think they would rather be beautiful than ugly, muscular than fat, shapely than anorexic.
Personally, if the avatars in a game are all ugly, I can't get past it. I don't care how good the game is. That avatar represents me to my virtual friends.
On the other hand, if people are arguing for more customization options, I am all for that. But let's drop the 'victim' mentality and save it for real victims, not people who have the luxury of time and money to play videogames.
"Oh and how about jiggle physics anyone? I've yet to see much jiggle on any part of the male body in a game?"
As a guy - I fully support your suggestion of rippling-beer-belly moddelling ^_^
Good article, nice to see men represented too. Don't think you got it completely right though. Male characters are often designed to look masculine but female's characters are made to look undressed!
Imagine you found a piece of armour with super ACs that looked like King Henry VIIs codpiece, then discovered when you wore it you got a barrage of tells asking if you were a real man and how old you were. I have a feeling that is not how you would like to be represented.
I don't think it is so much that females mind being made to look attractive, in fact some of us rather enjoy it, its more as a women I don't like looking like a sex-toy, there is a big difference. Of course if I chose to play a female Amazonian woman I would expect to be scantily clad.
Males = masculine
Women = sexy
But it should be women = feminine unless you want to play a female dwarf with a beard
yes, there are a number of factors that are genetically hard-wired, take women having wide hips as an example. This has always been a factor that biologically, we should find attractive (as men). I actually find it interesting that the ideal of today has moved away from realism and genetics, and toward a fictional ideal...
But I could go on about this for a long time. Gender theory is fascinating.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
on the other hand, if you write about this, one should write about "Mindless killing in MMOs"......
Unfortunately you have cause and effect completely in reverse. Game companies are, let me say again, commercial companies. They will do what ever it takes to sell more games, and the fact that they use female rather than male models in their ad campaigns proves exactly one thing: it sells better. That's the only signal they are really sending.
By the way, care to explain why all women's magazines have female models at the cover? All men's magazines have female models at the cover too - so logically, using female models is the best way to sell games to both sexes, no?
Many of the views on this thread, while understandable, seem strange to me; for example, "protecting" young girls from "unrealistic ideals" seems counter-productive, since those who conform will nevertheless be the ones with the most success in life no matter how unrealistic the standards may be. Yes, beauty ideals have changed from time to time, usually in response to changing health norms; but it's not like the opposite sex would just suddenly go, "gosh, how could we be so wrong all along, lets go for fat women from now on". So one has to deal with it or live alone.
Comparing just looks misses the point by a mile anyway, since every study on the subject has shown that women place less value on looks than men do; men look for status, while women look for safety, so good looks have direct value to a man while only indirect value to a woman. To put it more clearly, good looks ARE value in the eyes of a man, but in the eyes of a woman, they only imply that this man MIGHT have value; for example, he might have big muscles, but while it hints that he might do well in combat (and therefore be able to provide safety), proof is still required. Good looks make a man want a woman, but they only get a woman interested in a man; and sadly, mere interest doesn't sell products.
The sexist burden may exist for both men and women in games, but women bear most of that load. You don't see men in games dressed in ridiculously over sized cod pieces that barely cover their privates and nothing else while women's outfits in games is usually a bikini. To say that the sexism is equal only contributes to the problem. Just as in games the pressure in society is greater for girls than boys for many reasons. Men are expected to be buff which is a lot easier to achieve then what is expected of woman. They must not only be shapely but every part of their body must look a certain way to be considered by society as "beautiful".
The playing field has to be leveled before you can declare that men suffer the same sexist attitude in games as women do. That's like saying that because slavery was abolished that the playing field is now even for black people in America when their are so many socioeconomic road blocks that tilt the playing field.
I am a father of 2 boys and 2 girls and the biggest concern for me as my girls grow up is their self image. We were so disgusted by the images portrayed on TV that we canceled our cable so as not to bombard our girls with ridicules images that start at the pre-teen age. We got tired of how it was perfectly acceptable to have a homely looking leading man but his wife was always hot yet they would portray it the other way around. I am also concerned about my sons growing up with the wrong expectations of what a woman should look and act like.