Also, you guys should really stop talking about how nukes are overkill for this assignment. As I said earlier, tactical nukes yield 1/15th the amount of energy as the nuke used on Hiroshima...In addition, it's a bunker buster, so the explosion will take place underground...no nuclear fallout causing decades of radioactive people growing three penises. In addition to all of this, none of you know exactly what the hell kind of firepower is necessary to take out these underground bases, so stop acting like you do.
How about the Union of Concerned Scientists? Can they act like they know?
Originally posted by outfctrl Conventional weapons just dont have the power to do what needs to be done. They really have no choice. Its the " either them or us" way of thinking. My view? I SAY GO FOR IT
And what happens if Israel loses? Will good buddy America help out? Sure...but what with?
It'd be suicide for Israel to attack Iran unilaterally, and they know it.
Well, Israel took on the whole Middle East before, and dominated it.
Yes, it was in 1967, but Israel alone beat Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan. Israel grew by 3 times in 6 days. Looking at wikipedia real quick, here are some casualty numbers (i post this just because i'm interested at reading it myself, not really saying anything)
The casualties of the war, far from Israel's anticipated heavy estimates, were quite low, with 338 soldiers lost on the Egyptian front, 300 on the Jordanian front, and 141 on the Syrian front. Egypt lost 80% of its military equipment, 10,000 soldiers and 1,500 officers killed, 5,000 soldiers and 500 officers captured,[83] and 20,000 wounded.[84] Jordan suffered 6,000-7,000 killed and probably around 12,000 to 20,000 wounded.[85] Syria lost 2,500 dead and 5,000 wounded, half the tanks and almost all the artillery positioned in the Golan Heights were destroyed.[86] The official count of Iraqi casualties was 10 killed and about thirty wounded
Originally posted by outfctrl Conventional weapons just dont have the power to do what needs to be done. They really have no choice. Its the " either them or us" way of thinking. My view? I SAY GO FOR IT
And what happens if Israel loses? Will good buddy America help out? Sure...but what with?
It'd be suicide for Israel to attack Iran unilaterally, and they know it.
Well, Israel took on the whole Middle East before, and dominated it.
Yes, it was in 1967, but Israel alone beat Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan. Israel grew by 3 times in 6 days. Looking at wikipedia real quick, here are some casualty numbers (i post this just because i'm interested at reading it myself, not really saying anything)
The casualties of the war, far from Israel's anticipated heavy estimates, were quite low, with 338 soldiers lost on the Egyptian front, 300 on the Jordanian front, and 141 on the Syrian front. Egypt lost 80% of its military equipment, 10,000 soldiers and 1,500 officers killed, 5,000 soldiers and 500 officers captured,[83] and 20,000 wounded.[84] Jordan suffered 6,000-7,000 killed and probably around 12,000 to 20,000 wounded.[85] Syria lost 2,500 dead and 5,000 wounded, half the tanks and almost all the artillery positioned in the Golan Heights were destroyed.[86] The official count of Iraqi casualties was 10 killed and about thirty wounded
They didn't defeat the whole Middle East - at that time Iran was a friend of Israel's. Yes , that's right.
Israel defeated a gaggle of Arabs, who, with all due respect, have never rated higher than nuisance value on the world scale of military might. If the Arabs ever fought together, in concert, using tried and tested battle strategies and tactics, they'd probably be a formidable force - but they haven't been since the day the Mongols sacked Baghdad in the 13th century. They are a clannish gaggle. Like the Turks before them, Israel used divide and conquer methods superbly.
Iran is a different kettle of fish. The US itself has rated Iran a far more formidable opponent than any Arab nation. So they should. Iran learned some serious and invaluable lessons in its 8 year stalemate with the Iraqi's, one of the more important of which was to use common sense on the battlefield rather than religious rhetoric.
If anyone thinks Israel can go bang, dead Iran, game over, then they are seriously kidding themselves.
Edit: also, have a good look at the terrain of Iran vis-a-vis with the Arab nations, or Israel for that matter. Much easier to fight battles on flat ground - as generations of folk have found out trying to subdue Afghanistan.
Alexander did it - he conquered Persia, but I doubt the Israelis, even with their deserved tenacity, have an Alexander amongst themselves.
Also, you guys should really stop talking about how nukes are overkill for this assignment. As I said earlier, tactical nukes yield 1/15th the amount of energy as the nuke used on Hiroshima...In addition, it's a bunker buster, so the explosion will take place underground...no nuclear fallout causing decades of radioactive people growing three penises. In addition to all of this, none of you know exactly what the hell kind of firepower is necessary to take out these underground bases, so stop acting like you do.
How about the Union of Concerned Scientists? Can they act like they know?
So you honestly believe that they would be using Nuclear bunker buster bombs on a bunker that was not the proper kind of target for this weapon? Preposterous, they aren't as stupid as you believe. This video isn't even about the current situation, it's about proposed and hypothetical situations.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
why is it that every time a country says they going to use a low yeild nuke to blow somthing up it turns out that its abit more than a "low yield" nuke. i really think israel is going abit far with a nuke. theres stacks of weps that could do the job just as well as its already been said but even then wat is the point in this, destroy there uranium enrichment facilities so they can then wipe out the rest of iran without being wiped out themselves. its just plan idiotic.
take what you can but not what isn't yours. "fight to the end and never give your enemy the satisfaction of victory"
IMHO this would be the 1 event to trigger a nuclear war on a global scale.
The domino's would then fall 1 after the other.Dont think that Israel is without blood on its hands either that is 1 country i dont trust at all.They have just as much blood on their hands as any other country.
But why wouldnt a nuclear war be triggered in the middle east?
1. The military might of the arabic countries is akin to an army of individuals with a combination of down syndrome and severe schitzophrenia. Meaning they're as likely to shoot the ground and themselves as they are anyone else. (i'm joking here)
2. Iran is a different breed, Ahmedinejad has made it clear either to his own people or publically, that if one Israeli or US bomb hits Tehran, Tel Aviv will cease to exist shortly. Iran has ballistic missles and you and I both know they'd love to take out Israel.
3. If Israel hits Iran, Tel Aviv will have rain, but water won't be falling. If it is a nuclear bomb, even if it's a low-impact bunker buster, I'm not so sure that will fly, Israel isn't that stupid, they'll get burnt badly if they ever did that.
4. Iran, even though it is an islamic country is Shiite, 5% of all muslims, the rest are sunni, 95% of all muslims, they don't get along, they won't help each other. If iran gets nuked, no arab country will do anything. Hell if Saudi Arabia got nuked, no one would do anything, hell Saudi Arabia isn't even a Muslim country. Well, they are, but only nominally.
My take is that either no countries have nuclear weapons or all countries have nuclear weapons. Also, I thought it was well known that Israel had nukes, I've known it for years. I'm not sure I heard it rather than I assumed it. I mean come on guys, these are Jews, they seriously are on the forefront of anything intelligent and successful. I'm not so sure you see them much in your part of the country but in the Northeast here, Jews are supreme and they deserve it. For their population, they are highly overrepresented at the best colleges, and as lawyers, doctors, and other professionals.
I honestly don't think Iran is a threat, what's wrong with a country trying to get nukes to prevent other countries from bullying them. US thought or lied to us that Iraq was a threat so they took Iraq out. So if Iran thinks some of its neighbors are a threat, don't they deserve the right to protect themselves as they see fit? Israel thought hezbollah was a threat so they tried to take them out, what's wrong with other countries trying to protect themselves?
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
1. The military might of the arabic countries is akin to an army of individuals with a combination of down syndrome and severe schitzophrenia. Meaning they're as likely to shoot the ground and themselves as they are anyone else. (i'm joking here) 2. Iran is a different breed, Ahmedinejad has made it clear either to his own people or publically, that if one Israeli or US bomb hits Tehran, Tel Aviv will cease to exist shortly. Iran has ballistic missles and you and I both know they'd love to take out Israel. 3. If Israel hits Iran, Tel Aviv will have rain, but water won't be falling. If it is a nuclear bomb, even if it's a low-impact bunker buster, I'm not so sure that will fly, Israel isn't that stupid, they'll get burnt badly if they ever did that. 4. Iran, even though it is an islamic country is Shiite, 5% of all muslims, the rest are sunni, 95% of all muslims, they don't get along, they won't help each other. If iran gets nuked, no arab country will do anything. Hell if Saudi Arabia got nuked, no one would do anything, hell Saudi Arabia isn't even a Muslim country. Well, they are, but only nominally. My take is that either no countries have nuclear weapons or all countries have nuclear weapons. Also, I thought it was well known that Israel had nukes, I've known it for years. I'm not sure I heard it rather than I assumed it. I mean come on guys, these are Jews, they seriously are on the forefront of anything intelligent and successful. I'm not so sure you see them much in your part of the country but in the Northeast here, Jews are supreme and they deserve it. For their population, they are highly overrepresented at the best colleges, and as lawyers, doctors, and other professionals. I honestly don't think Iran is a threat, what's wrong with a country trying to get nukes to prevent other countries from bullying them. US thought or lied to us that Iraq was a threat so they took Iraq out. So if Iran thinks some of its neighbors are a threat, don't they deserve the right to protect themselves as they see fit? Israel thought hezbollah was a threat so they tried to take them out, what's wrong with other countries trying to protect themselves? Cryomatrix
Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country, under Muslim law, I have no idea what you mean by "they are not even Muslim country. Well they are, but only nominally"
Also, your altruistic "nukes for all or nukes for none" belief would be nice if it were at all feasable...unfortunately though, Iran and countries like it(North Korea chiefly among them) are not getting nukes to defend themselves. When Ahmadinajhad says that he wants to completely wipe an entire area out, he friggen means it. Why in God's name do you believe that this man should have access to the most powerfull weapons on the planet, knowing his beliefs and the things that he has said in the past.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
The ruling family, the Al-Saud family, rules the country, they are supposed to rule under Sharia, which is Muslim Law. They have a few laws which are sharia laws, perhaps, the cutting off the hands of thieves and perhaps death upon adultery.
They follow laws which are flashy, which people see. Believe me, you ask anyone in Saudia Arabia if it's laws are Islamic, and they'll laugh in your face.
Here are some examples. In Islam, there's no such thing as race, people are all muslims and equal be it chinese, white, black, blue, green, saudi, syrian, etc.
1. You can't own your own business if you're not a Saudi National, meaning you are grandfathered in. Saudi's are given preference over others. That's clear cut violation that a truly muslim country would never allow.
2. The pilgrimage to Mecca is a joke. They have 3 milion plus people, yet the government doesn't do its all to provide for it. I admit, it's tough to police 3m people, they have made advancements and improvements, but, how do you say, they didn't go the full nine yards.
Furthermore, one of the major points of the pilgrimate requires all men to wear a white unstiched sheet so that during the pilgramage all men are equal regardless of their stations in life. During the pilgrimage when 3m people need to move from one area to the next, they have to blcok the streets, so a Saudi prince can pass by while "avoiding" the pedestrian traffic. Essentially, this is the antithesis of the pilgramage. The stampede last pilgramage which killed 400+ people was purpoterdly caused by a prince and his guards prodding people along. (I can't confirm that).
3. If you have connections, you can pretty much do anything you want as a Saudi citizen. You get into an accident, it's your fault, talk to your hookups and you're home free. Muhammed said that even if his daughter stole something, he'd be the first to cut off her hand. Yet, in this "muslim" country, this is absolutely not the case
When I mean nominal, i mean that they call themselves a Muslim country but yet they do not act accordingly. To you they appear as a muslim country, to anyone who really knows it, they are hypocrites. The royal family, once they get behind closed doors, they go to their harems, they break out their whiskey, they cheat on their wives and everything else.
Essentially, Saudi provides an Islamic exterior to outsiders, but to anyone on the inside, it's highly unislamic.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I see...so according to you, a country that is made up almost entirely of Muslims, but do not adhere to legalistic laws regarding personal dress, is not a Muslim country. Nevermind the rampant oppression of women, and people of other religions in that area...sorry but everything that I know about Saudi Arabia sounds pretty damn Muslim to me.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I see...so according to you, a country that is made up almost entirely of Muslims, but do not adhere to legalistic laws regarding personal dress, is not a Muslim country. Nevermind the rampant oppression of women, and people of other religions in that area...sorry but everything that I know about Saudi Arabia sounds pretty damn Muslim to me.
Re-read your post.
It seems to me that you're saying that rampant oppression of women and people of other religions are trademarks of Islam. I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like. If so, i would say do not comment on religious threads ever again
As I said before, to outsiders it appears as a muslim country being 100% muslim where the dress code is islamic and a few adhering laws are actually sharia, however there is a huge SANCTIONED CHRISTIAN MILITARY presence. US planes flew from Saudi military bases to bomb the hell out of Baghdad and the muslims there. I can just imagine Muhammed providing a safe haven and a base of operation to the non-Muslims in Medina while they go raid the outlying muslim villages. I can just imagine . . .
Muhammed says: "Abdul, go help infidel number 1 load his arrows into his bows and sharpen them too, so they pierce the hearts of Muslims with more efficiency." or more apt.
Muhammed says: "Abdul, get the fuck out of your tent, so the infidels can tether their horses there. "
What you're obstinately choosing not to understand is that it is apparantly islamic because they set out to SHOW an islamic country. The everyday ruling and maintenance of the country does not adhere to Islamic law nor the theme of Islam. If you assume the theme of Islam is oppresion and intolerance, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Essentially, to give you an analogy, they walk around in a priest's uniform and say and do all the right things, but behind closed doors, most of the 10 commandments are egregiously broken.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
You two are just arguing about the context of the phrase. When draenor says "Muslim country," he is saying it in the sense that America is a Christian country. When cyromatix says "Muslim country" he is saying it in the sense that there government isn't Muslim and therefore it isn't a Muslim country, just as America's government isn't Christian so America isn't a Christian country.
I see...so according to you, a country that is made up almost entirely of Muslims, but do not adhere to legalistic laws regarding personal dress, is not a Muslim country. Nevermind the rampant oppression of women, and people of other religions in that area...sorry but everything that I know about Saudi Arabia sounds pretty damn Muslim to me.
Re-read your post.
It seems to me that you're saying that rampant oppression of women and people of other religions are trademarks of Islam. I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like. If so, i would say do not comment on religious threads ever again
If I was incorrect about Muslim countries oppressing women and sentancing those who convert from Islam to death, please correct me. Muslim law dictates that those who convert from Islam be put to death. You're going to tell me otherwise?
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I see...so according to you, a country that is made up almost entirely of Muslims, but do not adhere to legalistic laws regarding personal dress, is not a Muslim country. Nevermind the rampant oppression of women, and people of other religions in that area...sorry but everything that I know about Saudi Arabia sounds pretty damn Muslim to me.
Re-read your post.
It seems to me that you're saying that rampant oppression of women and people of other religions are trademarks of Islam. I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like. If so, i would say do not comment on religious threads ever again
If I was incorrect about Muslim countries oppressing women and sentancing those who convert from Islam to death, please correct me. Muslim law dictates that those who convert from Islam be put to death. You're going to tell me otherwise?
You're right, an apostate, one who converts from Islam is to be killed according to Muslim law. The person is punished for the crime, not because they're of another religion, but moreso for forsaking Islam. It is harsh I must say.
I think xexima was right, we were arguing context. When I said muslim country, i meant the concept of a muslim country, you may have been thinking that I meant the inhabitants. I wasn't clear then.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Man I would be scared shitless I was working in those plants, knowing that any time I could be wiped out. But on Israel's part I dont really blame them, looks like we might be seeing another war between Israel and its neighbors, or at least between Israel and Iran, the others might be too scared, in which case (or either case) Israel will win convincingly just like every other time... sigh.
If Israel nukes Iran it wont be just a war between Israel and Iran it will be the start WW3, trust in that.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Conventional weapons just dont have the power to do what needs to be done. They really have no choice. Its the " either them or us" way of thinking. My view? I SAY GO FOR IT
In which case, I'd be more inclined to pre-emptively nuke Israel.
Iran would be a better ally and the economic ramifications would be far less.
Why cant they just use thermite or EMP weopons? For freak sakes the Americans and Israelis have made some pretty awsome futuristic stuff, HAARP, EMP, thermite plasma, ELF's, project aurora and even some MKULTRA stuff lol. Just send an EMP pulse n shut all of Iran off for a while then destroy their facilities with a thermite plasma bunker buster dropped from a mach 24 Aurora plane lol and then brainwash all of Iran with your MKULTRA tech lol? I really hope we dont have to use nukes to take out Iran because in all seriousness it would cause a shitstorm.
Why cant they just use thermite or EMP weopons? For freak sakes the Americans and Israelis have made some pretty awsome futuristic stuff, HAARP, EMP, thermite plasma, ELF's, project aurora and even some MKULTRA stuff lol. Just send an EMP pulse n shut all of Iran off for a while then destroy their facilities with a thermite plasma bunker buster dropped from a mach 24 Aurora plane lol and then brainwash all of Iran with your MKULTRA tech lol? I really hope we dont have to use nukes to take out Iran because in all seriousness it would cause a shitstorm.
Did you just make half of this stuff up? EMP weapons aren't the god of weapons, anything hardened or with the switch set to "off" won't be effected by it at all.
Project Aurora isn't even confirmed to exist, and flying mach 24 would tear the plane to pieces. Mach 6 is closer to what you were looking for, though yeah, that's still monstrously fast and forget about shooting it down.
As for the thermite plasma bunker buster...huh? I haven't even heard of this one, please link me. Seriously, I'm curious.
Why cant they just use thermite or EMP weopons? For freak sakes the Americans and Israelis have made some pretty awsome futuristic stuff, HAARP, EMP, thermite plasma, ELF's, project aurora and even some MKULTRA stuff lol. Just send an EMP pulse n shut all of Iran off for a while then destroy their facilities with a thermite plasma bunker buster dropped from a mach 24 Aurora plane lol and then brainwash all of Iran with your MKULTRA tech lol? I really hope we dont have to use nukes to take out Iran because in all seriousness it would cause a shitstorm.
Did you just make half of this stuff up? EMP weapons aren't the god of weapons, anything hardened or with the switch set to "off" won't be effected by it at all.
Project Aurora isn't even confirmed to exist, and flying mach 24 would tear the plane to pieces. Mach 6 is closer to what you were looking for, though yeah, that's still monstrously fast and forget about shooting it down.
As for the thermite plasma bunker buster...huh? I haven't even heard of this one, please link me. Seriously, I'm curious.
LOL no I didnt just make that stuff up, mach 24 is the speed at which a "scramjet" will travel by scooping hydrogen from the atmosphere and compressing it through a very complex system which enables hypersonic flight. I dont wanna hijack and go off topic but yes HAARP and thermite plasma are real just google them or research on forums that deal with military black projects here is a link to one such place: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/50/pg1/srtpages There is many more exotic weopons I didnt even mention that are just as amazing that are about to be put into service.
Conventional weapons just dont have the power to do what needs to be done. They really have no choice. Its the " either them or us" way of thinking. My view? I SAY GO FOR IT
In which case, I'd be more inclined to pre-emptively nuke Israel.
Iran would be a better ally and the economic ramifications would be far less.
Except of course for the fact that Iran's leaders and many of its people hate the United States and every infidel that lives in it.
Disagree with that? Wake up to reality please.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Except of course for the fact that Iran's leaders and many of its people hate the United States and every infidel that lives in it. Disagree with that? Wake up to reality please.
I suggest to you that very few Americans or American leaders hatred for Iran is based on anything more than pre-judgement. You don't know any Iranians, why do you hate them?
Enemies are perfectly capable of becoming friends. Your grounds for enmity are weak at best. If you wanted to you could be friends,you just don't want to.
Anyway, why would I care if Americans hate Iranians? Boo hoo. Hate whoever you like, as long as you don't step on my toes I'm cool with it.
Iran has a great big oil supply and will quite possibly soon have domination over the Persian Gulf. It borders two countries where our troops are currently deployed in and is influental in it's region. It's a good market for our weapons systems. It has major trade relations with countries that I am in no small way invested in. Like the U.S., it's continued success is financially important to me. Not to mention any attack on Iran will greatly increase the pice of petrol and detriment my oil price dependant U.S. investments too.
The same isn't true of Israel, with it's history of terrorism against us and it's (almost weekly) repeated invasions of it's neighbours. Stirring up regional insecurity, causing large scale deployments on it's borders by our allies, deployments that take troops away from other theatres we are jointly operating in. It has no assets. Nothing to trade. A big expensive pain in the bum for no gain.
Comments
How about the Union of Concerned Scientists? Can they act like they know?
www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/nuclear-bunker-buster-rnep-animation.html
Well, Israel took on the whole Middle East before, and dominated it.
Yes, it was in 1967, but Israel alone beat Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Jordan. Israel grew by 3 times in 6 days. Looking at wikipedia real quick, here are some casualty numbers (i post this just because i'm interested at reading it myself, not really saying anything)
So
Israel: 779
Others: 65,540
Egypt: 37,000 (killed/captured/wounded)
Jordan: about 21,000 (killed/wounded)
Sydia: 7500 (killed/wounded)
Iraq: 40 (killed/wounded)
They didn't defeat the whole Middle East - at that time Iran was a friend of Israel's. Yes , that's right.
Israel defeated a gaggle of Arabs, who, with all due respect, have never rated higher than nuisance value on the world scale of military might. If the Arabs ever fought together, in concert, using tried and tested battle strategies and tactics, they'd probably be a formidable force - but they haven't been since the day the Mongols sacked Baghdad in the 13th century. They are a clannish gaggle. Like the Turks before them, Israel used divide and conquer methods superbly.
Iran is a different kettle of fish. The US itself has rated Iran a far more formidable opponent than any Arab nation. So they should. Iran learned some serious and invaluable lessons in its 8 year stalemate with the Iraqi's, one of the more important of which was to use common sense on the battlefield rather than religious rhetoric.
If anyone thinks Israel can go bang, dead Iran, game over, then they are seriously kidding themselves.
Edit: also, have a good look at the terrain of Iran vis-a-vis with the Arab nations, or Israel for that matter. Much easier to fight battles on flat ground - as generations of folk have found out trying to subdue Afghanistan.
Alexander did it - he conquered Persia, but I doubt the Israelis, even with their deserved tenacity, have an Alexander amongst themselves.
How about the Union of Concerned Scientists? Can they act like they know?
www.ucsusa.org/global_security/nuclear_weapons/nuclear-bunker-buster-rnep-animation.html
So you honestly believe that they would be using Nuclear bunker buster bombs on a bunker that was not the proper kind of target for this weapon? Preposterous, they aren't as stupid as you believe. This video isn't even about the current situation, it's about proposed and hypothetical situations.Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
take what you can but not what isn't yours. "fight to the end and never give your enemy the satisfaction of victory"
The domino's would then fall 1 after the other.Dont think that Israel is without blood on its hands either that is 1 country i dont trust at all.They have just as much blood on their hands as any other country.
But why wouldnt a nuclear war be triggered in the middle east?
What is your physical limit?
1. The military might of the arabic countries is akin to an army of individuals with a combination of down syndrome and severe schitzophrenia. Meaning they're as likely to shoot the ground and themselves as they are anyone else. (i'm joking here)
2. Iran is a different breed, Ahmedinejad has made it clear either to his own people or publically, that if one Israeli or US bomb hits Tehran, Tel Aviv will cease to exist shortly. Iran has ballistic missles and you and I both know they'd love to take out Israel.
3. If Israel hits Iran, Tel Aviv will have rain, but water won't be falling. If it is a nuclear bomb, even if it's a low-impact bunker buster, I'm not so sure that will fly, Israel isn't that stupid, they'll get burnt badly if they ever did that.
4. Iran, even though it is an islamic country is Shiite, 5% of all muslims, the rest are sunni, 95% of all muslims, they don't get along, they won't help each other. If iran gets nuked, no arab country will do anything. Hell if Saudi Arabia got nuked, no one would do anything, hell Saudi Arabia isn't even a Muslim country. Well, they are, but only nominally.
My take is that either no countries have nuclear weapons or all countries have nuclear weapons. Also, I thought it was well known that Israel had nukes, I've known it for years. I'm not sure I heard it rather than I assumed it. I mean come on guys, these are Jews, they seriously are on the forefront of anything intelligent and successful. I'm not so sure you see them much in your part of the country but in the Northeast here, Jews are supreme and they deserve it. For their population, they are highly overrepresented at the best colleges, and as lawyers, doctors, and other professionals.
I honestly don't think Iran is a threat, what's wrong with a country trying to get nukes to prevent other countries from bullying them. US thought or lied to us that Iraq was a threat so they took Iraq out. So if Iran thinks some of its neighbors are a threat, don't they deserve the right to protect themselves as they see fit? Israel thought hezbollah was a threat so they tried to take them out, what's wrong with other countries trying to protect themselves?
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country, under Muslim law, I have no idea what you mean by "they are not even Muslim country. Well they are, but only nominally"
Also, your altruistic "nukes for all or nukes for none" belief would be nice if it were at all feasable...unfortunately though, Iran and countries like it(North Korea chiefly among them) are not getting nukes to defend themselves. When Ahmadinajhad says that he wants to completely wipe an entire area out, he friggen means it. Why in God's name do you believe that this man should have access to the most powerfull weapons on the planet, knowing his beliefs and the things that he has said in the past.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I'll tell you why Saudi is only nominally Muslim.
The ruling family, the Al-Saud family, rules the country, they are supposed to rule under Sharia, which is Muslim Law. They have a few laws which are sharia laws, perhaps, the cutting off the hands of thieves and perhaps death upon adultery.
They follow laws which are flashy, which people see. Believe me, you ask anyone in Saudia Arabia if it's laws are Islamic, and they'll laugh in your face.
Here are some examples. In Islam, there's no such thing as race, people are all muslims and equal be it chinese, white, black, blue, green, saudi, syrian, etc.
1. You can't own your own business if you're not a Saudi National, meaning you are grandfathered in. Saudi's are given preference over others. That's clear cut violation that a truly muslim country would never allow.
2. The pilgrimage to Mecca is a joke. They have 3 milion plus people, yet the government doesn't do its all to provide for it. I admit, it's tough to police 3m people, they have made advancements and improvements, but, how do you say, they didn't go the full nine yards.
Furthermore, one of the major points of the pilgrimate requires all men to wear a white unstiched sheet so that during the pilgramage all men are equal regardless of their stations in life. During the pilgrimage when 3m people need to move from one area to the next, they have to blcok the streets, so a Saudi prince can pass by while "avoiding" the pedestrian traffic. Essentially, this is the antithesis of the pilgramage. The stampede last pilgramage which killed 400+ people was purpoterdly caused by a prince and his guards prodding people along. (I can't confirm that).
3. If you have connections, you can pretty much do anything you want as a Saudi citizen. You get into an accident, it's your fault, talk to your hookups and you're home free. Muhammed said that even if his daughter stole something, he'd be the first to cut off her hand. Yet, in this "muslim" country, this is absolutely not the case
When I mean nominal, i mean that they call themselves a Muslim country but yet they do not act accordingly. To you they appear as a muslim country, to anyone who really knows it, they are hypocrites. The royal family, once they get behind closed doors, they go to their harems, they break out their whiskey, they cheat on their wives and everything else.
Essentially, Saudi provides an Islamic exterior to outsiders, but to anyone on the inside, it's highly unislamic.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Re-read your post.
It seems to me that you're saying that rampant oppression of women and people of other religions are trademarks of Islam. I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like. If so, i would say do not comment on religious threads ever again
As I said before, to outsiders it appears as a muslim country being 100% muslim where the dress code is islamic and a few adhering laws are actually sharia, however there is a huge SANCTIONED CHRISTIAN MILITARY presence. US planes flew from Saudi military bases to bomb the hell out of Baghdad and the muslims there. I can just imagine Muhammed providing a safe haven and a base of operation to the non-Muslims in Medina while they go raid the outlying muslim villages. I can just imagine . . .
Muhammed says: "Abdul, go help infidel number 1 load his arrows into his bows and sharpen them too, so they pierce the hearts of Muslims with more efficiency." or more apt.
Muhammed says: "Abdul, get the fuck out of your tent, so the infidels can tether their horses there. "
What you're obstinately choosing not to understand is that it is apparantly islamic because they set out to SHOW an islamic country. The everyday ruling and maintenance of the country does not adhere to Islamic law nor the theme of Islam. If you assume the theme of Islam is oppresion and intolerance, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Essentially, to give you an analogy, they walk around in a priest's uniform and say and do all the right things, but behind closed doors, most of the 10 commandments are egregiously broken.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Stop arguing context, it's retarded.
Re-read your post.
It seems to me that you're saying that rampant oppression of women and people of other religions are trademarks of Islam. I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like. If so, i would say do not comment on religious threads ever again
If I was incorrect about Muslim countries oppressing women and sentancing those who convert from Islam to death, please correct me. Muslim law dictates that those who convert from Islam be put to death. You're going to tell me otherwise?
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Re-read your post.
It seems to me that you're saying that rampant oppression of women and people of other religions are trademarks of Islam. I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like. If so, i would say do not comment on religious threads ever again
Now that's tolerance right thereIf I was incorrect about Muslim countries oppressing women and sentancing those who convert from Islam to death, please correct me. Muslim law dictates that those who convert from Islam be put to death. You're going to tell me otherwise?
You're right, an apostate, one who converts from Islam is to be killed according to Muslim law. The person is punished for the crime, not because they're of another religion, but moreso for forsaking Islam. It is harsh I must say.
I think xexima was right, we were arguing context. When I said muslim country, i meant the concept of a muslim country, you may have been thinking that I meant the inhabitants. I wasn't clear then.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
If Israel nukes Iran it wont be just a war between Israel and Iran it will be the start WW3, trust in that.
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
It will eventually. Especially after Iran retaliates.
eh, nothing new i would do the same if i was isreal...
Defiant
In which case, I'd be more inclined to pre-emptively nuke Israel.
Iran would be a better ally and the economic ramifications would be far less.
{(RIP)} SWG
Did you just make half of this stuff up? EMP weapons aren't the god of weapons, anything hardened or with the switch set to "off" won't be effected by it at all.
Project Aurora isn't even confirmed to exist, and flying mach 24 would tear the plane to pieces. Mach 6 is closer to what you were looking for, though yeah, that's still monstrously fast and forget about shooting it down.
As for the thermite plasma bunker buster...huh? I haven't even heard of this one, please link me. Seriously, I'm curious.
Did you just make half of this stuff up? EMP weapons aren't the god of weapons, anything hardened or with the switch set to "off" won't be effected by it at all.
Project Aurora isn't even confirmed to exist, and flying mach 24 would tear the plane to pieces. Mach 6 is closer to what you were looking for, though yeah, that's still monstrously fast and forget about shooting it down.
As for the thermite plasma bunker buster...huh? I haven't even heard of this one, please link me. Seriously, I'm curious.
LOL no I didnt just make that stuff up, mach 24 is the speed at which a "scramjet" will travel by scooping hydrogen from the atmosphere and compressing it through a very complex system which enables hypersonic flight. I dont wanna hijack and go off topic but yes HAARP and thermite plasma are real just google them or research on forums that deal with military black projects here is a link to one such place: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/50/pg1/srtpages There is many more exotic weopons I didnt even mention that are just as amazing that are about to be put into service.
{(RIP)} SWG
In which case, I'd be more inclined to pre-emptively nuke Israel.
Iran would be a better ally and the economic ramifications would be far less.
Except of course for the fact that Iran's leaders and many of its people hate the United States and every infidel that lives in it.
Disagree with that? Wake up to reality please.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I suggest to you that very few Americans or American leaders hatred for Iran is based on anything more than pre-judgement. You don't know any Iranians, why do you hate them?
Enemies are perfectly capable of becoming friends. Your grounds for enmity are weak at best. If you wanted to you could be friends, you just don't want to.
Anyway, why would I care if Americans hate Iranians? Boo hoo. Hate whoever you like, as long as you don't step on my toes I'm cool with it.
Iran has a great big oil supply and will quite possibly soon have domination over the Persian Gulf. It borders two countries where our troops are currently deployed in and is influental in it's region. It's a good market for our weapons systems. It has major trade relations with countries that I am in no small way invested in. Like the U.S., it's continued success is financially important to me. Not to mention any attack on Iran will greatly increase the pice of petrol and detriment my oil price dependant U.S. investments too.
The same isn't true of Israel, with it's history of terrorism against us and it's (almost weekly) repeated invasions of it's neighbours. Stirring up regional insecurity, causing large scale deployments on it's borders by our allies, deployments that take troops away from other theatres we are jointly operating in. It has no assets. Nothing to trade. A big expensive pain in the bum for no gain.
It's something of any easy choice.