Sure you did, you were never brought up to believe Iran is an evil regime. One day you just decided to find out about Iran all by yourself, you had never even heard of it before and you just thought, "I know, I'll look up everything I can find out about how evil Iran is".
And in your own unbiased unindoctrinated research you took particular efforts to talk to Iranians and find out what their intrests and concerns were. Why they are like they are. The justifications for their positions. Looked at the good things about them and the bad.
Oh no, wait a minute, all you looked up was how evil they are. I forgot.
Also, Baff...The current plan from Israel to nuke Iran is not a plan to nuke their cities. It is a plan to nuke underground bunkers that are developing nuclear technology. Mahmoud's desire to "wipe Israel off of the map" and "eliminate the Zionists from the world" has been expressed by him on many occasions. Your comparision between the two is completely invalid.
Eliminate Zionists from the world?
Is this a direct quote? Or did you write it yourself?
He discusses eliminating the zionist regime.
All his remarks have been regime specific.
He hasn't said anything like that at all. Not on many occasions, not even once.
Those are your words.
This is the official translation of Arhamadijad's contentious "wiped of the map" speech as given by the Iranian government.
He further expressed his firm belief that the new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away.
Exterminated? Is that a direct quote please? And what does exterminated mean if it doesn't mean killed? He didn't say it. You did.
No I wasn't quoting him, and never claimed I was. It was paraphrasing on my part. According to the dictionary, the word "exterminate" means "to totally destroy". There's this cool site called dictionary.com if you'd like to verify for yourself.
I was simply saying that he's had ample opportunity to explain more clearly what he meant if he wanted to calm the world down.
Oh I see, you wanted to clarify what he meant when he never said anything.
Please.
We are talking about the same thing right? Are you denying that he said Israel should be wiped off the map? You also said that some people interpret that as meaning genocide.
I never attempted to clarify what he meant... if I did, please point it out to me. All I said was, he's had ample opportunity to clarify his own statement if he wanted to calm the world down. Please read what I'm saying instead of posting for the sake of being argumentative.
Originally posted by baff This is the official translation of Arhamadijad's contentious "wiped of the map" speech as given by the Iranian government. He further expressed his firm belief that the new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away.
Who should I believe?
All you have said is that he could have clarified, what he said.
Which:
A) Didn't need any clarification to anyone who actually read it..
and
He did.
How could you possibly be seeking further clarification without willfuuly attempting to misinterpret him. You don't know what he said, and have made no effort to find out, but you want him to clarify it with you? But not so much that when he actually does clarify it, you are willing to take the time to read it.
What utter nonsense. We all want him to say stuff like "we are building nukes so that we can turn Isreal into a desert utterly wiping out each and everyone of them". That is what we want to hear from him.
If he says anything different, we are not listening and we are just going to pretend he said that anyway.
Originally posted by baff This is the official translation of Arhamadijad's contentious "wiped of the map" speech as given by the Iranian government. He further expressed his firm belief that the new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away.
Who should I believe?
Indeed... I'd like to know myself. I don't trust the Iranian government any more than I trust my own though.
While I wholeheartedly agree with that. I haven't heard it told from my or your government, however, just internet whackos.
Not even my right wing daily newspapers tried to sell that one.
The Iranian government which he represents have translated his statements. This is their official line. The line which represents his government. you couldn't really ask for a better source for Iranian governmental policy, than the Iranian government itself.
While I wholeheartedly agree with that, I haven't heard it told from my or your government, just internet whackos. Not even my right wing daily newspapers tried to sell that one.
It's the attitudes of these countries that get people antsy. The world wants Iran to be open and cooperative about their nuclear developments, but they fire back with rebellious "I don't owe you anything" responses on a regular basis. And that in addition to their support for radical groups in the area that aren't interested in peaceful political dealings.
Same thing with the U.S. and Israel. The world wants justification and cooperation in the way we deal with the middle east, but we fire back with "Don't tell me what to do", as evidenced by our actions in the region.
Everyone has their own boat to row at the end of the day.
If the RAF bomb Iran's nuclear facilities I will be cheering them on. If they don't I will expect an immediate diplomatic attempt at alliance and I will cheer that on instead.
Flattening Israel of course would be a much easier solution all round.
Also, Baff...The current plan from Israel to nuke Iran is not a plan to nuke their cities. It is a plan to nuke underground bunkers that are developing nuclear technology. Mahmoud's desire to "wipe Israel off of the map" and "eliminate the Zionists from the world" has been expressed by him on many occasions. Your comparision between the two is completely invalid.
Eliminate Zionists from the world?
Is this a direct quote? Or did you write it yourself?
He discusses eliminating the zionist regime.
All his remarks have been regime specific.
He hasn't said anything like that at all. Not on many occasions, not even once.
Those are your words.
This is the official translation of Arhamadijad's contentious "wiped of the map" speech as given by the Iranian government.
He further expressed his firm belief that the new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away.
Seems so different to what you said.
I will ignore the post above this one, if you're just going to sit there and call me a liar then I'll assume that you have nothing better to argue.
As for his comments regarding regimes and the elimination of them...you would have to be an absolute fool to believe that the man does not hate the jews, and that he would not want to completely eliminate them from the world. If you believe otherwise, then yes, I'm caling you a fool.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I believe you would have to be an absolutely small minded hate monger to believe any different. That all the evidence clearly details otherwise. That any basic empathy or understanding of human nature would lead you away from the conclusion you have chosen. I believe you would have to want to believe otherwise. I belive that you prefer to hate.
Neither do I believe that when George Bush and Tony Blair said they wanted to overthrow Saddam's regime that they meant kill every single Iraqi. Or when Bush said he wanted to overthrow every regime in the Middle East (and a few others) he meant totally exterminate all Middle Easterners.
Draenor, I'm not even going to go to the trouble of quoting and attributing your reply to me as the quoting system this board uses sucks and I couldn't be arsed screwing with it.
But, read what I wrote again please. Go on. I wrote once Iran does away with its theocracy, it and America may become friends again.
Does...away...with...its...theocracy.
Got it?
You are throwing shit at me based on Iran's current religious and political regime.
Ahmadinejad and Khameini, et al, are products of the current theocracy. Constitutionally.
Theocracies, IMHO, are doomed to fail in this technocratic age. They are an anachronism and a blatantly unfair political system and it's only a matter of time before they are swept aside.
I hope Iran does depose its mullahs and goes about things in a more politically enlightened manner. History is on its side with that one.
By the way, all this palaver about Zionism? The UN declared Zionism to be a racist principle and idea, I believe in the 1970's some time. Much to the amusement and the "I-told-you-so's" of many, and the indignation of a few.
Jesus christ, that's crazy. What I can't understand is the reasoning behind these 'leaders', Bush and the Israeli government. Do they think that by just launching a nuke on a neighbouring country, nothing will happen to them? Seems a bit medieval of them to think that nowadays people live in their country of origin. I guarantee some Iranian fundamentalist is waiting in Israel to revenge his country.
I guarantee you that when Iran gets nukes, Israel will be in threat of both a direct launch or a terrorist smuggled nuke going off in their country.
Israel has no other choice than to take that plant out. Iran with nukes is scarier than if the Nazi's had nukes. The sad thing is that France, who is equally fearful of Iran getting nukes (Chirac made a nuclear counterthreat to Iran some time ago) would probably side politically with the Iranians just as an act of appeasement, while at the same time benefitting from Israel (or the U.S.) shouldering the burden once again.
Not sure I understand your thinking? Are you assuming diplomacy will pacify the evil leaders of the world?
Just by reading your posts in reference to Islam you carry a huge undertone that every Muslim's goal in life is to chop off the heads of infidels. I can't comment on bringing up the madhi, you may have been reading up on shiite doctrine or sunni doctrine, they do differ and in some places, drastically.
But seriously man, your average Muhammad Muslim does not care about infidels, most "muslims" aren't even that religious, of course, from what you see on TV, you may believe otherwise. There are large christian communities in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, etc that have co-existed in relative peace. There have been skirmishes between two types of people, but tell me what nation has never had sectarian violence.
Jews and Muslims have co-existed, Israel wasn't chosen at random for a Jewish homeland. They co-existed together, i'm not saying it was 100% peace, but it wasn't what you would believe.
The average muslim when asked about what they think about the world would probably decry Israel and/or Jews and perhaps America, they won't say, those bloody bastard infidel christians are gonna die.
Furthermore, i saw a post of yours where you said that (not-verbatim), "How could anyone believe those westboro church goers of the godhatesfag community or whatever it is can hardly be thought of as Christian"
I'll respond by saying, how can Al-Qaidi and all the other screwed up movements by self-proclaiming muslims be considered Islamic"
If you're gonna believe that what Al-Qaidi and others of their ilk do as representative of Islam, then you better believe that what that screwed up "godhatesfags" church does is representative of Christianity or we could even say the catholic church and their juvenile vices.
Furthermore, Ahmedinajad can take out Tel Aviv if he wanted to. He has the long range ballistic missles to do so, i forget the persian names for the missles. Seriously, you don't need nukes to take out a country. So if Ahmedinjah gets a nuke, do you honestly think, he'll nuke Israel.
I mean seriously, why would he do that, he nukes Israel and then what happens. Israel just says, crap and goes on with their life. They'll nuke the hell out of Tehran 4.3 seconds later and if they don't do it, the US will do it. Mahmoud dropping a nuke on Israel is akin to dropping a nuke on Tehran, he might as well save himself the trouble and nuke both places at once, because one unilateral unwarranted strike against Israel by Iran = Iran getting WTF owned.
I'd take a guess that he's getting Nuclear power for infrastructure reasons and if for Nuclear weapons, which I would do if I was him, for use as a deterrent. You think the US would have nuked Japan if Japan had a nuke?
Seriously, every country has the right to protect itself not only America and Israel, so if they're building nuclear weapons then more power to them, you'd be an idiot in this day and age to not pursue a nuclear weapons program. I'd do it just for defensive posturing and protecting yourself from being bullied and exploited.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Just by reading your posts in reference to Islam you carry a huge undertone that every Muslim's goal in life is to chop off the heads of infidels. I can't comment on bringing up the madhi, you may have been reading up on shiite doctrine or sunni doctrine, they do differ and in some places, drastically.
But seriously man, your average Muhammad Muslim does not care about infidels, most "muslims" aren't even that religious, of course, from what you see on TV, you may believe otherwise. There are large christian communities in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, etc that have co-existed in relative peace. There have been skirmishes between two types of people, but tell me what nation has never had sectarian violence.
Jews and Muslims have co-existed, Israel wasn't chosen at random for a Jewish homeland. They co-existed together, i'm not saying it was 100% peace, but it wasn't what you would believe.
The average muslim when asked about what they think about the world would probably decry Israel and/or Jews and perhaps America, they won't say, those bloody bastard infidel christians are gonna die.
Furthermore, i saw a post of yours where you said that (not-verbatim), "How could anyone believe those westboro church goers of the godhatesfag community or whatever it is can hardly be thought of as Christian"
I'll respond by saying, how can Al-Qaidi and all the other screwed up movements by self-proclaiming muslims be considered Islamic"
If you're gonna believe that what Al-Qaidi and others of their ilk do as representative of Islam, then you better believe that what that screwed up "godhatesfags" church does is representative of Christianity or we could even say the catholic church and their juvenile vices.
Furthermore, Ahmedinajad can take out Tel Aviv if he wanted to. He has the long range ballistic missles to do so, i forget the persian names for the missles. Seriously, you don't need nukes to take out a country. So if Ahmedinjah gets a nuke, do you honestly think, he'll nuke Israel.
I mean seriously, why would he do that, he nukes Israel and then what happens. Israel just says, crap and goes on with their life. They'll nuke the hell out of Tehran 4.3 seconds later and if they don't do it, the US will do it. Mahmoud dropping a nuke on Israel is akin to dropping a nuke on Tehran, he might as well save himself the trouble and nuke both places at once, because one unilateral unwarranted strike against Israel by Iran = Iran getting WTF owned.
I'd take a guess that he's getting Nuclear power for infrastructure reasons and if for Nuclear weapons, which I would do if I was him, for use as a deterrent. You think the US would have nuked Japan if Japan had a nuke?
Seriously, every country has the right to protect itself not only America and Israel, so if they're building nuclear weapons then more power to them, you'd be an idiot in this day and age to not pursue a nuclear weapons program. I'd do it just for defensive posturing and protecting yourself from being bullied and exploited.
Cryomatrix
I don't harbor a deep seeded hatred for Muslims...I simply know what their holy book contains and what orthodox muslims believe, and it's some scary stuff. Ahmadinejad is one of the scary muslims, and an alliance with him would be absolutely stupid.
I think that if you believe that Ahmadinejad desires nuclear power for energy purposes only, I think you are deluding yourself. As I said before, he claims that nuclear weapons are against islamic law, so why then does he constantly complain the the United States has nukes but the rest of the world isn't allowed to? Also, I can easily imagine a scenario in which he developed nuclear weapons as "defense" against the zionist regimes, which of course wouldn't be against islamic law.
Of course every country has the right to defend themselves...Except Iran isn't talking about self defense, it's talking about removing Israel from the face of the Earth...that's not self defense. Ahmadinejad and other orthodox muslims believe that the jews unrightfully pushed them from the Iraeli lands and that gives them the right to kill them to get it back. It's not self defense.
These people hate jews and anyone else who is an "infidel"(Nonmuslim) Do you realize that POKEMON is banned in Saudi Arabia for promoting ZIONIST PROPAGANDA?
I'll say that again....THEY BELIEVE THAT POKEMON PROMOTES ZIONIST PROPAGANDA AND HAVE THEREFORE BANNED IT.
Does that seem silly to you? It should, these people are so paranoid about a possible zionist takeover that they are finding zionist propaganda in friggen POKEMON. So how many other things do you think they will believe and act on? Pokemon is just the beginning folks. It sounds so friggen funny saying that, but it's true.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Draenor, I'm not even going to go to the trouble of quoting and attributing your reply to me as the quoting system this board uses sucks and I couldn't be arsed screwing with it. But, read what I wrote again please. Go on. I wrote once Iran does away with its theocracy, it and America may become friends again. Does...away...with...its...theocracy. Got it? You are throwing shit at me based on Iran's current religious and political regime. Ahmadinejad and Khameini, et al, are products of the current theocracy. Constitutionally. Theocracies, IMHO, are doomed to fail in this technocratic age. They are an anachronism and a blatantly unfair political system and it's only a matter of time before they are swept aside. I hope Iran does depose its mullahs and goes about things in a more politically enlightened manner. History is on its side with that one. By the way, all this palaver about Zionism? The UN declared Zionism to be a racist principle and idea, I believe in the 1970's some time. Much to the amusement and the "I-told-you-so's" of many, and the indignation of a few.
I'm under 21, so you can't take my posts seriously anyway, seriously.
Your sig is so completely idiotic that I had to write a reply devoted to it...you do realize that most adults are morons right?
Anyway, I'm not saying that a future alliance with Iran is impossible, I'm saying that suggesting one at this time is completely impossible due to the current leadership in the country. I have focused my replies on Mahmoud Ahmadinejad rather than the world of Islam for this expressed purpose.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
No, I don't realise that most adults are morons. This was actually a pretty decent thread (for this site anyway) but rather than address what I had to say, you do the ad hominem thing and comment on my signature.
No, I don't realise that most adults are morons. This was actually a pretty decent thread (for this site anyway) but rather than address what I had to say, you do the ad hominem thing and comment on my signature. My signature is a joke. But...I wonder. I'm out.
How about you read below the first paragraph, champ
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I guarantee you that when Iran gets nukes, Israel will be in threat of both a direct launch or a terrorist smuggled nuke going off in their country.
Israel has no other choice than to take that plant out. Iran with nukes is scarier than if the Nazi's had nukes. The sad thing is that France, who is equally fearful of Iran getting nukes (Chirac made a nuclear counterthreat to Iran some time ago) would probably side politically with the Iranians just as an act of appeasement, while at the same time benefitting from Israel (or the U.S.) shouldering the burden once again.
Not sure I understand your thinking? Are you assuming diplomacy will pacify the evil leaders of the world?
As every one of Isreals neighbours is right now. Khomeni spoke the truth 20 years ago when he said the muslim nations need to find a counterbalance. This is the way to peace. When one side outguns the other, he is free to invade and often does. Mutually assured destruction has kept the peace between a few rivals. It works. Countries unable to mutually assure that destruction still get attacked and invaded.
France is deployed on Israels borders, the U.S. is not. Who is shouldering the burden exactly? The U.S. isn't helping to contain them at all, it is arming them and financially supporting them.
The most alarming part of your post is the "evil" part. Presumably once you label someone or something evil you are free to harm them and everyone around them in anyway imaginable. In the name of "good". This isn't a movie. Luke Skywalker isn't a real person.
As we can see from posts similar to Draenors that demonisation is in full swing. Arhmenijad is widely acredited to say monsterous things that he actually hasn't. The american public is encouraged to believe these lies rather than making the effort to clarify the mistake. It's WMD all over again. The propaganda that precedes war.
Iran is clearly no direct threat to Israel, and even nuclear armed would not be. The same is not true of Israel, which is a direct threat to Iran and has a history of miliotary aggression to it';s neighbours.
If you are going to kill innocent people, or even be a propponent of it, at least do it for the right reasons.
The importance of keeping Iran nuclear free, is so that we may maintain military domination over them. Not to stop them gaining military domination over us, going nuclear won't bring that to them. It's about western domination. Iran is not wrong to fear Zionism, Zionism is out to keep them down. Subservient even in their own homeland.
This is not something I have a problem with.
On the otherhand, who needs enemies when you can have friends. We don't actually have to be enemies. We could just leave them alone.
Crying on about Israel? Please. Appeasing Israel just gives them greater lisence.
Better Iran than Israel.
Israel is strategically important for it's position next to the Suez Canal. Iran for the Persian Gulf. Nuke Iran, and the global economy suffers, nuke Israel, a dependant, and it actually improves.
Plus Iranians are nicer people.
I concur that an Iranian-U.S. alliance is currently not feasible, but Bush, and hopefully all of his democracy supremacism, will be gone in 2 years. If of course Iran does go nuclear, swallow your pride, accept the loss of face and get on with dealing with them as a free and equal society.
Just by reading your posts in reference to Islam you carry a huge undertone that every Muslim's goal in life is to chop off the heads of infidels. I can't comment on bringing up the madhi, you may have been reading up on shiite doctrine or sunni doctrine, they do differ and in some places, drastically.
But seriously man, your average Muhammad Muslim does not care about infidels, most "muslims" aren't even that religious, of course, from what you see on TV, you may believe otherwise. There are large christian communities in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, etc that have co-existed in relative peace. There have been skirmishes between two types of people, but tell me what nation has never had sectarian violence.
Jews and Muslims have co-existed, Israel wasn't chosen at random for a Jewish homeland. They co-existed together, i'm not saying it was 100% peace, but it wasn't what you would believe.
The average muslim when asked about what they think about the world would probably decry Israel and/or Jews and perhaps America, they won't say, those bloody bastard infidel christians are gonna die.
Furthermore, i saw a post of yours where you said that (not-verbatim), "How could anyone believe those westboro church goers of the godhatesfag community or whatever it is can hardly be thought of as Christian"
I'll respond by saying, how can Al-Qaidi and all the other screwed up movements by self-proclaiming muslims be considered Islamic"
If you're gonna believe that what Al-Qaidi and others of their ilk do as representative of Islam, then you better believe that what that screwed up "godhatesfags" church does is representative of Christianity or we could even say the catholic church and their juvenile vices.
Furthermore, Ahmedinajad can take out Tel Aviv if he wanted to. He has the long range ballistic missles to do so, i forget the persian names for the missles. Seriously, you don't need nukes to take out a country. So if Ahmedinjah gets a nuke, do you honestly think, he'll nuke Israel.
I mean seriously, why would he do that, he nukes Israel and then what happens. Israel just says, crap and goes on with their life. They'll nuke the hell out of Tehran 4.3 seconds later and if they don't do it, the US will do it. Mahmoud dropping a nuke on Israel is akin to dropping a nuke on Tehran, he might as well save himself the trouble and nuke both places at once, because one unilateral unwarranted strike against Israel by Iran = Iran getting WTF owned.
I'd take a guess that he's getting Nuclear power for infrastructure reasons and if for Nuclear weapons, which I would do if I was him, for use as a deterrent. You think the US would have nuked Japan if Japan had a nuke?
Seriously, every country has the right to protect itself not only America and Israel, so if they're building nuclear weapons then more power to them, you'd be an idiot in this day and age to not pursue a nuclear weapons program. I'd do it just for defensive posturing and protecting yourself from being bullied and exploited.
Cryomatrix
I don't harbor a deep seeded hatred for Muslims...I simply know what their holy book contains and what orthodox muslims believe, and it's some scary stuff. Ahmadinejad is one of the scary muslims, and an alliance with him would be absolutely stupid.
- When you research the Koran, next time look for something called "Tafseer of the Koran" it is historical context for almost every single verse. No disrespect to anyone who's muslim, but by reading the Koran it looks like the originator had ADD, so historical context is a must because within the chapters, the main theme can switch every few lines. It's actually, amazingly disorganized and repetitive. It may give you a new perspective. He's not that scary, I'd consider someone who lies to their people about WMD and goes against the UN in reference to war more scary. Plus Mahmoud isn't dumb .
I think that if you believe that Ahmadinejad desires nuclear power for energy purposes only, I think you are deluding yourself. As I said before, he claims that nuclear weapons are against islamic law, so why then does he constantly complain the the United States has nukes but the rest of the world isn't allowed to? Also, I can easily imagine a scenario in which he developed nuclear weapons as "defense" against the zionist regimes, which of course wouldn't be against islamic law.
- I don't believe for one second mahmoud desires nuclear power for energy purposes only, i think he also wants nuclear weapons and I don't blame him one bit. I agree wtih Iran's acquirement of enriched Uranium and their advancement. He should be building weapons. After what Israel did to Lebanon this past summer, he better build those weapons and soon.
-In times of war, Muslims are not allowed to kill women and children. Since, WMD are not selective, dropping them would be clear cut violation of Islamic law. Now in reference to suicide bombers in Palestine for example, after years and years of having their own women and children killed, they stopped caring. I'm not so sure children are frequently targetted but I know women and men are targetted in Israel. However, in Israel everyone over 18 is a soldier, so in reality, there isn't a conflict Islamically for targetting Israeli's. I did say women is against the law, but back in teh day, women did not serve in the army and were non-combatants. This day and age isn't the same, therefore, I do not think the law against women is upheld. In reference to suicide bombings in Iraq, it's soldier vs soldier, that's fine Islamically. I'm not talking about reasons, just what would be islamically permissible if it were to ensue.
Of course every country has the right to defend themselves...Except Iran isn't talking about self defense, it's talking about removing Israel from the face of the Earth...that's not self defense. Ahmadinejad and other orthodox muslims believe that the jews unrightfully pushed them from the Iraeli lands and that gives them the right to kill them to get it back. It's not self defense.
- As Baff said, a lot of what is attributed to Ahmedinjad isn't really true. Furtehrmore, he can already inflict major damage on Tel Aviv. Tomorrow I'll get you the names and types of missiles that Iran has.
Your next line is funny. I'll give you some good stats regarding Islamic and Arab dislike for Israel.
1. 95-99% of all Arabs absolutely hate Israel. This includes Fundamentalists, nominal muslims, people who don't even care about Islam, Christians, fundamentalist Christians, atheist arabs, weird islamic sect arabs, and every other kind of arab. By Arab I mean those who speak arabic, not muslims from indonesia, afghanistan, pakistan, etc. People dislike Israel for takin Palestinian land and their treatment.. You don't have to be orthodox muslim to hate those that you PERCIEVE to have stolen your land and who continue to occupy and threaten your existence. You saw the shit they pulled in Lebanon which is very diverse for an Arab country, they've been pulling shit like this for years and years (refer to Baff's earlier posts). You honestly think only Orthodox Muslims hate them? Hell dude, white supramecist Christians hate Israel (albeit for sometimes different reasons). Hate may be too strong of a word, strong dislike . Every arabic speaking person you will ever meet in your life will most likely harbor dislike or more against Israel, not all arabs, even Palestinians dislike Jews in a global sense.
These people hate jews and anyone else who is an "infidel"(Nonmuslim) Do you realize that POKEMON is banned in Saudi Arabia for promoting ZIONIST PROPAGANDA?
- Orthodox Muslims most likely strongly distrust Jews, some would have severe dislike for non-muslims, but most would not do unwarranted harm. You have to realize that most muslims are from indonesia, pakistan, india, malaysia, they don't really come in contact with Jews, they probably are prejudice. I've talked to non-arab muslims, they don't even know what Jews look like whereas an Arab can pick out a jew in huge throng of people, the non-arab muslims are prejudiced against them mainly because they are influenced by Arabs which is funny. Now arab muslims (14% of all muslims) already hate Israel with a passion, so arabs already have that covered.
I'll say that again....THEY BELIEVE THAT POKEMON PROMOTES ZIONIST PROPAGANDA AND HAVE THEREFORE BANNED IT.
- Yeah, they do not support Israel's way of life or the zionist way of life. I'd think many muslims view the zionist's mission statement akin to how jews view hamas's mission statement. They do not want to support Israel so they ban one of their percieved products. Many muslims and arabs actually try to boycott products that are Israeli origin. I don't think it's much different then a super US patriot refusing to buy any car other than US made so they don't support anyone else other than the US. It would be akin to the US banning some product made by the Hamas Gov't, hell the US froze the accounts of Hamas so now they can't even pay their workers. The US doesn't agree with Hamas so they freeze their accounts. Saudi doesn't agree with zionists, so they ban pokeman . There may be differing degrees here. I also think i misread your point lol.
Does that seem silly to you? It should, these people are so paranoid about a possible zionist takeover that they are finding zionist propaganda in friggen POKEMON. So how many other things do you think they will believe and act on? Pokemon is just the beginning folks. It sounds so friggen funny saying that, but it's true.
- Are you sure it's zionist propaganda or is it an israeli product? They ban propaganda yet support Israel's biggest ally, that's why I love Saudi, say no to pokeman for zionist propaganda, say yes to the US who funds zionism LOL. . Also, the US has a strong alliance with a bunch of crazy and scary muslims who ban propaganda, disallow women to drive, put blanket sheets over their head, how would it be different than with our friend Mahmoud?
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
The most alarming part of your post is the "evil" part. Presumably once you label someone or something evil you are free to harm them and everyone around them in anyway imaginable. In the name of "good". This isn't a movie. Luke Skywalker isn't a real person. This man is a bad man. If you dont like the term "evil" then how about accepting bad and crazy. I just read some of his blog and the crazy talk just starts flying especially on his holocaust tangent. He is full of double speak and hypocracy from my judgement. As we can see from posts similar to Draenors that demonisation is in full swing. Arhmenijad is widely acredited to say monsterous things that he actually hasn't. The american public is encouraged to believe these lies rather than making the effort to clarify the mistake. It's WMD all over again. The propaganda that precedes war. I am curious to know more about this false demonization. Did this man not actually say "the holocaust never happened" ? Did he not ever sugest that the Israeli government needs to be "wiped from the page of time"? Interesting to note that many demonize the US leaders who dont want to embrace or negotiate with Iran. But when Iranian president Ahmednijad says Israel should be removed -instead of negotiated with- then Ahmednijad is just a poor misuderstood saint.
Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)
Just by reading your posts in reference to Islam you carry a huge undertone that every Muslim's goal in life is to chop off the heads of infidels. I can't comment on bringing up the madhi, you may have been reading up on shiite doctrine or sunni doctrine, they do differ and in some places, drastically.
But seriously man, your average Muhammad Muslim does not care about infidels, most "muslims" aren't even that religious, of course, from what you see on TV, you may believe otherwise. There are large christian communities in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, etc that have co-existed in relative peace. There have been skirmishes between two types of people, but tell me what nation has never had sectarian violence.
Jews and Muslims have co-existed, Israel wasn't chosen at random for a Jewish homeland. They co-existed together, i'm not saying it was 100% peace, but it wasn't what you would believe.
The average muslim when asked about what they think about the world would probably decry Israel and/or Jews and perhaps America, they won't say, those bloody bastard infidel christians are gonna die.
Furthermore, i saw a post of yours where you said that (not-verbatim), "How could anyone believe those westboro church goers of the godhatesfag community or whatever it is can hardly be thought of as Christian"
I'll respond by saying, how can Al-Qaidi and all the other screwed up movements by self-proclaiming muslims be considered Islamic"
If you're gonna believe that what Al-Qaidi and others of their ilk do as representative of Islam, then you better believe that what that screwed up "godhatesfags" church does is representative of Christianity or we could even say the catholic church and their juvenile vices.
Furthermore, Ahmedinajad can take out Tel Aviv if he wanted to. He has the long range ballistic missles to do so, i forget the persian names for the missles. Seriously, you don't need nukes to take out a country. So if Ahmedinjah gets a nuke, do you honestly think, he'll nuke Israel.
I mean seriously, why would he do that, he nukes Israel and then what happens. Israel just says, crap and goes on with their life. They'll nuke the hell out of Tehran 4.3 seconds later and if they don't do it, the US will do it. Mahmoud dropping a nuke on Israel is akin to dropping a nuke on Tehran, he might as well save himself the trouble and nuke both places at once, because one unilateral unwarranted strike against Israel by Iran = Iran getting WTF owned.
I'd take a guess that he's getting Nuclear power for infrastructure reasons and if for Nuclear weapons, which I would do if I was him, for use as a deterrent. You think the US would have nuked Japan if Japan had a nuke?
Seriously, every country has the right to protect itself not only America and Israel, so if they're building nuclear weapons then more power to them, you'd be an idiot in this day and age to not pursue a nuclear weapons program. I'd do it just for defensive posturing and protecting yourself from being bullied and exploited.
Cryomatrix
I don't harbor a deep seeded hatred for Muslims...I simply know what their holy book contains and what orthodox muslims believe, and it's some scary stuff. Ahmadinejad is one of the scary muslims, and an alliance with him would be absolutely stupid.
- When you research the Koran, next time look for something called "Tafseer of the Koran" it is historical context for almost every single verse. No disrespect to anyone who's muslim, but by reading the Koran it looks like the originator had ADD, so historical context is a must because within the chapters, the main theme can switch every few lines. It's actually, amazingly disorganized and repetitive. It may give you a new perspective. He's not that scary, I'd consider someone who lies to their people about WMD and goes against the UN in reference to war more scary. Plus Mahmoud isn't dumb .
I'll admit that I am no scholar of the Koran, but very few are...only a select few are allowed to view and interpret the entire koran.
I think that if you believe that Ahmadinejad desires nuclear power for energy purposes only, I think you are deluding yourself. As I said before, he claims that nuclear weapons are against islamic law, so why then does he constantly complain the the United States has nukes but the rest of the world isn't allowed to? Also, I can easily imagine a scenario in which he developed nuclear weapons as "defense" against the zionist regimes, which of course wouldn't be against islamic law.
- I don't believe for one second mahmoud desires nuclear power for energy purposes only, i think he also wants nuclear weapons and I don't blame him one bit. I agree wtih Iran's acquirement of enriched Uranium and their advancement. He should be building weapons. After what Israel did to Lebanon this past summer, he better build those weapons and soon.
If he wasn't such a loon bent on the annihilation of all things Israel, I would be more inclined to agree. Also, why so much hate for Israel? People claim that it was an unnecessary use of force...I always say that the best way to end a fight is to hit the guy as hard as you can until you are sure that they aren't going to try anything else...that's what Israel did
-In times of war, Muslims are not allowed to kill women and children. Since, WMD are not selective, dropping them would be clear cut violation of Islamic law. Now in reference to suicide bombers in Palestine for example, after years and years of having their own women and children killed, they stopped caring. I'm not so sure children are frequently targetted but I know women and men are targetted in Israel. However, in Israel everyone over 18 is a soldier, so in reality, there isn't a conflict Islamically for targetting Israeli's. I did say women is against the law, but back in teh day, women did not serve in the army and were non-combatants. This day and age isn't the same, therefore, I do not think the law against women is upheld. In reference to suicide bombings in Iraq, it's soldier vs soldier, that's fine Islamically. I'm not talking about reasons, just what would be islamically permissible if it were to ensue.
Funny how this law gets violated in every single terrorist attack...sorry but I don't care if this law exists, terrorists have showed very clearly that they don't give a damn...and Ahmadinejad is no different, you honestly think he is going to let a little thing like islamic law stop him from eliminating his hated Zionists regimes? please.
Of course every country has the right to defend themselves...Except Iran isn't talking about self defense, it's talking about removing Israel from the face of the Earth...that's not self defense. Ahmadinejad and other orthodox muslims believe that the jews unrightfully pushed them from the Iraeli lands and that gives them the right to kill them to get it back. It's not self defense.
- As Baff said, a lot of what is attributed to Ahmedinjad isn't really true. Furtehrmore, he can already inflict major damage on Tel Aviv. Tomorrow I'll get you the names and types of missiles that Iran has.
Your next line is funny. I'll give you some good stats regarding Islamic and Arab dislike for Israel.
1. 95-99% of all Arabs absolutely hate Israel. This includes Fundamentalists, nominal muslims, people who don't even care about Islam, Christians, fundamentalist Christians, atheist arabs, weird islamic sect arabs, and every other kind of arab. By Arab I mean those who speak arabic, not muslims from indonesia, afghanistan, pakistan, etc. People dislike Israel for takin Palestinian land and their treatment.. You don't have to be orthodox muslim to hate those that you PERCIEVE to have stolen your land and who continue to occupy and threaten your existence. You saw the shit they pulled in Lebanon which is very diverse for an Arab country, they've been pulling shit like this for years and years (refer to Baff's earlier posts). You honestly think only Orthodox Muslims hate them? Hell dude, white supramecist Christians hate Israel (albeit for sometimes different reasons). Hate may be too strong of a word, strong dislike . Every arabic speaking person you will ever meet in your life will most likely harbor dislike or more against Israel, not all arabs, even Palestinians dislike Jews in a global sense.
The hatred that other religious groups have for the jews and Israel is a very different kind of hatred, and is not a hatred with "end of the world" implications, such as Ahmadinejad's hatred.
These people hate jews and anyone else who is an "infidel"(Nonmuslim) Do you realize that POKEMON is banned in Saudi Arabia for promoting ZIONIST PROPAGANDA?
- Orthodox Muslims most likely strongly distrust Jews, some would have severe dislike for non-muslims, but most would not do unwarranted harm. You have to realize that most muslims are from indonesia, pakistan, india, malaysia, they don't really come in contact with Jews, they probably are prejudice. I've talked to non-arab muslims, they don't even know what Jews look like whereas an Arab can pick out a jew in huge throng of people, the non-arab muslims are prejudiced against them mainly because they are influenced by Arabs which is funny. Now arab muslims (14% of all muslims) already hate Israel with a passion, so arabs already have that covered.
K?
I'll say that again....THEY BELIEVE THAT POKEMON PROMOTES ZIONIST PROPAGANDA AND HAVE THEREFORE BANNED IT.
- Yeah, they do not support Israel's way of life or the zionist way of life. I'd think many muslims view the zionist's mission statement akin to how jews view hamas's mission statement. They do not want to support Israel so they ban one of their percieved products. Many muslims and arabs actually try to boycott products that are Israeli origin. I don't think it's much different then a super US patriot refusing to buy any car other than US made so they don't support anyone else other than the US. It would be akin to the US banning some product made by the Hamas Gov't, hell the US froze the accounts of Hamas so now they can't even pay their workers. The US doesn't agree with Hamas so they freeze their accounts. Saudi doesn't agree with zionists, so they ban pokeman . There may be differing degrees here. I also think i misread your point lol.
And this has to do with Pokemon how? You really don't see the insane paranoia that exists among these people about supposed zionist propaganda? That was the reason for my pointing out the ban on pokemon.
Does that seem silly to you? It should, these people are so paranoid about a possible zionist takeover that they are finding zionist propaganda in friggen POKEMON. So how many other things do you think they will believe and act on? Pokemon is just the beginning folks. It sounds so friggen funny saying that, but it's true.
- Are you sure it's zionist propaganda or is it an israeli product? They ban propaganda yet support Israel's biggest ally, that's why I love Saudi, say no to pokeman for zionist propaganda, say yes to the US who funds zionism LOL. . Also, the US has a strong alliance with a bunch of crazy and scary muslims who ban propaganda, disallow women to drive, put blanket sheets over their head, how would it be different than with our friend Mahmoud?
The specific reason stated by the government is "for the promotion of Zionist propaganda. I doubt that I could find the information again, you'll just have to trust me that it is banned over there. It might also interest you to know that Command and Conquer is banned in China
Cryomatrix
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Nice talking to you. I don't know how to say this without sounding facetious, but I respect the way you make your points, you don't go into name calling and you articulate your points. Anyway, one thing i must say is that in reference to the Koran anyone can read it and every person should read it and if they have the time read the historical context of the Koran and then make their own interpretation. I'm talking about Muslims here but in general, anyone can read it and make their own conclusions. Being an expert doesn't really mean anything to me. You can go online and put in Tafseer of the Koran and Koran and get anything you'd like to get.
You see sports "Experts" sign horrible players for long term deals, you see scientist experts screw everything up, you see experts screw things up while an amateur will get things rights. So I don't believe in needing to be an expert to necessarily intepret things. When you read up on Islam, be conscious of whether it is a shiite location or a sunni location. They can be drastic and contradictory. 5% of muslims are shiite and 95% are sunni.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Comments
Sure you did, you were never brought up to believe Iran is an evil regime. One day you just decided to find out about Iran all by yourself, you had never even heard of it before and you just thought, "I know, I'll look up everything I can find out about how evil Iran is".
And in your own unbiased unindoctrinated research you took particular efforts to talk to Iranians and find out what their intrests and concerns were. Why they are like they are. The justifications for their positions. Looked at the good things about them and the bad.
Oh no, wait a minute, all you looked up was how evil they are. I forgot.
Eliminate Zionists from the world?
Is this a direct quote? Or did you write it yourself?
He discusses eliminating the zionist regime.
All his remarks have been regime specific.
He hasn't said anything like that at all. Not on many occasions, not even once.
Those are your words.
This is the official translation of Arhamadijad's contentious "wiped of the map" speech as given by the Iranian government.
He further expressed his firm belief that the new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away.
Seems so different to what you said.
Oh I see, you wanted to clarify what he meant when he never said anything. And you never said he did say anything.
I know what exterminate means. I also know that that it wasn't him who used that word, it was you.
Bit of a loaded word really don't you think? When applied to jews.
Oh I see, you wanted to clarify what he meant when he never said anything.
Please.
We are talking about the same thing right? Are you denying that he said Israel should be wiped off the map? You also said that some people interpret that as meaning genocide.
I never attempted to clarify what he meant... if I did, please point it out to me. All I said was, he's had ample opportunity to clarify his own statement if he wanted to calm the world down. Please read what I'm saying instead of posting for the sake of being argumentative.
Who should I believe?
All you have said is that he could have clarified, what he said.
Which:
A) Didn't need any clarification to anyone who actually read it..
and
How could you possibly be seeking further clarification without willfuuly attempting to misinterpret him. You don't know what he said, and have made no effort to find out, but you want him to clarify it with you? But not so much that when he actually does clarify it, you are willing to take the time to read it.
What utter nonsense. We all want him to say stuff like "we are building nukes so that we can turn Isreal into a desert utterly wiping out each and everyone of them". That is what we want to hear from him.
If he says anything different, we are not listening and we are just going to pretend he said that anyway.
Who should I believe?
Indeed... I'd like to know myself. I don't trust the Iranian government any more than I trust my own though.
While I wholeheartedly agree with that. I haven't heard it told from my or your government, however, just internet whackos.
Not even my right wing daily newspapers tried to sell that one.
The Iranian government which he represents have translated his statements. This is their official line. The line which represents his government. you couldn't really ask for a better source for Iranian governmental policy, than the Iranian government itself.
Same thing with the U.S. and Israel. The world wants justification and cooperation in the way we deal with the middle east, but we fire back with "Don't tell me what to do", as evidenced by our actions in the region.
Well, it's to be expected.
Everyone has their own boat to row at the end of the day.
If the RAF bomb Iran's nuclear facilities I will be cheering them on. If they don't I will expect an immediate diplomatic attempt at alliance and I will cheer that on instead.
Flattening Israel of course would be a much easier solution all round.
Eliminate Zionists from the world?
Is this a direct quote? Or did you write it yourself?
He discusses eliminating the zionist regime.
All his remarks have been regime specific.
He hasn't said anything like that at all. Not on many occasions, not even once.
Those are your words.
This is the official translation of Arhamadijad's contentious "wiped of the map" speech as given by the Iranian government.
He further expressed his firm belief that the new wave of confrontations generated in Palestine and the growing turmoil in the Islamic world would in no time wipe Israel away.
Seems so different to what you said.
I will ignore the post above this one, if you're just going to sit there and call me a liar then I'll assume that you have nothing better to argue.
As for his comments regarding regimes and the elimination of them...you would have to be an absolute fool to believe that the man does not hate the jews, and that he would not want to completely eliminate them from the world. If you believe otherwise, then yes, I'm caling you a fool.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I believe otherwise.
I believe you would have to be an absolutely small minded hate monger to believe any different. That all the evidence clearly details otherwise. That any basic empathy or understanding of human nature would lead you away from the conclusion you have chosen. I believe you would have to want to believe otherwise. I belive that you prefer to hate.
Neither do I believe that when George Bush and Tony Blair said they wanted to overthrow Saddam's regime that they meant kill every single Iraqi. Or when Bush said he wanted to overthrow every regime in the Middle East (and a few others) he meant totally exterminate all Middle Easterners.
Draenor, I'm not even going to go to the trouble of quoting and attributing your reply to me as the quoting system this board uses sucks and I couldn't be arsed screwing with it.
But, read what I wrote again please. Go on. I wrote once Iran does away with its theocracy, it and America may become friends again.
Does...away...with...its...theocracy.
Got it?
You are throwing shit at me based on Iran's current religious and political regime.
Ahmadinejad and Khameini, et al, are products of the current theocracy. Constitutionally.
Theocracies, IMHO, are doomed to fail in this technocratic age. They are an anachronism and a blatantly unfair political system and it's only a matter of time before they are swept aside.
I hope Iran does depose its mullahs and goes about things in a more politically enlightened manner. History is on its side with that one.
By the way, all this palaver about Zionism? The UN declared Zionism to be a racist principle and idea, I believe in the 1970's some time. Much to the amusement and the "I-told-you-so's" of many, and the indignation of a few.
I guarantee you that when Iran gets nukes, Israel will be in threat of both a direct launch or a terrorist smuggled nuke going off in their country.
Israel has no other choice than to take that plant out. Iran with nukes is scarier than if the Nazi's had nukes. The sad thing is that France, who is equally fearful of Iran getting nukes (Chirac made a nuclear counterthreat to Iran some time ago) would probably side politically with the Iranians just as an act of appeasement, while at the same time benefitting from Israel (or the U.S.) shouldering the burden once again.
Not sure I understand your thinking? Are you assuming diplomacy will pacify the evil leaders of the world?
Just by reading your posts in reference to Islam you carry a huge undertone that every Muslim's goal in life is to chop off the heads of infidels. I can't comment on bringing up the madhi, you may have been reading up on shiite doctrine or sunni doctrine, they do differ and in some places, drastically.
But seriously man, your average Muhammad Muslim does not care about infidels, most "muslims" aren't even that religious, of course, from what you see on TV, you may believe otherwise. There are large christian communities in Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, etc that have co-existed in relative peace. There have been skirmishes between two types of people, but tell me what nation has never had sectarian violence.
Jews and Muslims have co-existed, Israel wasn't chosen at random for a Jewish homeland. They co-existed together, i'm not saying it was 100% peace, but it wasn't what you would believe.
The average muslim when asked about what they think about the world would probably decry Israel and/or Jews and perhaps America, they won't say, those bloody bastard infidel christians are gonna die.
Furthermore, i saw a post of yours where you said that (not-verbatim), "How could anyone believe those westboro church goers of the godhatesfag community or whatever it is can hardly be thought of as Christian"
I'll respond by saying, how can Al-Qaidi and all the other screwed up movements by self-proclaiming muslims be considered Islamic"
If you're gonna believe that what Al-Qaidi and others of their ilk do as representative of Islam, then you better believe that what that screwed up "godhatesfags" church does is representative of Christianity or we could even say the catholic church and their juvenile vices.
Furthermore, Ahmedinajad can take out Tel Aviv if he wanted to. He has the long range ballistic missles to do so, i forget the persian names for the missles. Seriously, you don't need nukes to take out a country. So if Ahmedinjah gets a nuke, do you honestly think, he'll nuke Israel.
I mean seriously, why would he do that, he nukes Israel and then what happens. Israel just says, crap and goes on with their life. They'll nuke the hell out of Tehran 4.3 seconds later and if they don't do it, the US will do it. Mahmoud dropping a nuke on Israel is akin to dropping a nuke on Tehran, he might as well save himself the trouble and nuke both places at once, because one unilateral unwarranted strike against Israel by Iran = Iran getting WTF owned.
I'd take a guess that he's getting Nuclear power for infrastructure reasons and if for Nuclear weapons, which I would do if I was him, for use as a deterrent. You think the US would have nuked Japan if Japan had a nuke?
Seriously, every country has the right to protect itself not only America and Israel, so if they're building nuclear weapons then more power to them, you'd be an idiot in this day and age to not pursue a nuclear weapons program. I'd do it just for defensive posturing and protecting yourself from being bullied and exploited.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I don't harbor a deep seeded hatred for Muslims...I simply know what their holy book contains and what orthodox muslims believe, and it's some scary stuff. Ahmadinejad is one of the scary muslims, and an alliance with him would be absolutely stupid.
I think that if you believe that Ahmadinejad desires nuclear power for energy purposes only, I think you are deluding yourself. As I said before, he claims that nuclear weapons are against islamic law, so why then does he constantly complain the the United States has nukes but the rest of the world isn't allowed to? Also, I can easily imagine a scenario in which he developed nuclear weapons as "defense" against the zionist regimes, which of course wouldn't be against islamic law.
Of course every country has the right to defend themselves...Except Iran isn't talking about self defense, it's talking about removing Israel from the face of the Earth...that's not self defense. Ahmadinejad and other orthodox muslims believe that the jews unrightfully pushed them from the Iraeli lands and that gives them the right to kill them to get it back. It's not self defense.
These people hate jews and anyone else who is an "infidel"(Nonmuslim) Do you realize that POKEMON is banned in Saudi Arabia for promoting ZIONIST PROPAGANDA?
I'll say that again....THEY BELIEVE THAT POKEMON PROMOTES ZIONIST PROPAGANDA AND HAVE THEREFORE BANNED IT.
Does that seem silly to you? It should, these people are so paranoid about a possible zionist takeover that they are finding zionist propaganda in friggen POKEMON. So how many other things do you think they will believe and act on? Pokemon is just the beginning folks. It sounds so friggen funny saying that, but it's true.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I'm under 21, so you can't take my posts seriously anyway, seriously.
Your sig is so completely idiotic that I had to write a reply devoted to it...you do realize that most adults are morons right?
Anyway, I'm not saying that a future alliance with Iran is impossible, I'm saying that suggesting one at this time is completely impossible due to the current leadership in the country. I have focused my replies on Mahmoud Ahmadinejad rather than the world of Islam for this expressed purpose.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
No, I don't realise that most adults are morons. This was actually a pretty decent thread (for this site anyway) but rather than address what I had to say, you do the ad hominem thing and comment on my signature.
My signature is a joke. But...I wonder.
I'm out.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
As every one of Isreals neighbours is right now. Khomeni spoke the truth 20 years ago when he said the muslim nations need to find a counterbalance. This is the way to peace. When one side outguns the other, he is free to invade and often does. Mutually assured destruction has kept the peace between a few rivals. It works. Countries unable to mutually assure that destruction still get attacked and invaded.
France is deployed on Israels borders, the U.S. is not. Who is shouldering the burden exactly? The U.S. isn't helping to contain them at all, it is arming them and financially supporting them.
The most alarming part of your post is the "evil" part. Presumably once you label someone or something evil you are free to harm them and everyone around them in anyway imaginable. In the name of "good". This isn't a movie. Luke Skywalker isn't a real person.
As we can see from posts similar to Draenors that demonisation is in full swing. Arhmenijad is widely acredited to say monsterous things that he actually hasn't. The american public is encouraged to believe these lies rather than making the effort to clarify the mistake. It's WMD all over again. The propaganda that precedes war.
Iran is clearly no direct threat to Israel, and even nuclear armed would not be. The same is not true of Israel, which is a direct threat to Iran and has a history of miliotary aggression to it';s neighbours.
If you are going to kill innocent people, or even be a propponent of it, at least do it for the right reasons.
The importance of keeping Iran nuclear free, is so that we may maintain military domination over them. Not to stop them gaining military domination over us, going nuclear won't bring that to them. It's about western domination. Iran is not wrong to fear Zionism, Zionism is out to keep them down. Subservient even in their own homeland.
This is not something I have a problem with.
On the otherhand, who needs enemies when you can have friends. We don't actually have to be enemies. We could just leave them alone.
Crying on about Israel? Please. Appeasing Israel just gives them greater lisence.
Better Iran than Israel.
Israel is strategically important for it's position next to the Suez Canal. Iran for the Persian Gulf. Nuke Iran, and the global economy suffers, nuke Israel, a dependant, and it actually improves.
Plus Iranians are nicer people.
I concur that an Iranian-U.S. alliance is currently not feasible, but Bush, and hopefully all of his democracy supremacism, will be gone in 2 years. If of course Iran does go nuclear, swallow your pride, accept the loss of face and get on with dealing with them as a free and equal society.
I don't harbor a deep seeded hatred for Muslims...I simply know what their holy book contains and what orthodox muslims believe, and it's some scary stuff. Ahmadinejad is one of the scary muslims, and an alliance with him would be absolutely stupid.
- When you research the Koran, next time look for something called "Tafseer of the Koran" it is historical context for almost every single verse. No disrespect to anyone who's muslim, but by reading the Koran it looks like the originator had ADD, so historical context is a must because within the chapters, the main theme can switch every few lines. It's actually, amazingly disorganized and repetitive. It may give you a new perspective. He's not that scary, I'd consider someone who lies to their people about WMD and goes against the UN in reference to war more scary. Plus Mahmoud isn't dumbI think that if you believe that Ahmadinejad desires nuclear power for energy purposes only, I think you are deluding yourself. As I said before, he claims that nuclear weapons are against islamic law, so why then does he constantly complain the the United States has nukes but the rest of the world isn't allowed to? Also, I can easily imagine a scenario in which he developed nuclear weapons as "defense" against the zionist regimes, which of course wouldn't be against islamic law.
- I don't believe for one second mahmoud desires nuclear power for energy purposes only, i think he also wants nuclear weapons and I don't blame him one bit. I agree wtih Iran's acquirement of enriched Uranium and their advancement. He should be building weapons. After what Israel did to Lebanon this past summer, he better build those weapons and soon.-In times of war, Muslims are not allowed to kill women and children. Since, WMD are not selective, dropping them would be clear cut violation of Islamic law. Now in reference to suicide bombers in Palestine for example, after years and years of having their own women and children killed, they stopped caring. I'm not so sure children are frequently targetted but I know women and men are targetted in Israel. However, in Israel everyone over 18 is a soldier, so in reality, there isn't a conflict Islamically for targetting Israeli's. I did say women is against the law, but back in teh day, women did not serve in the army and were non-combatants. This day and age isn't the same, therefore, I do not think the law against women is upheld. In reference to suicide bombings in Iraq, it's soldier vs soldier, that's fine Islamically. I'm not talking about reasons, just what would be islamically permissible if it were to ensue.
Of course every country has the right to defend themselves...Except Iran isn't talking about self defense, it's talking about removing Israel from the face of the Earth...that's not self defense. Ahmadinejad and other orthodox muslims believe that the jews unrightfully pushed them from the Iraeli lands and that gives them the right to kill them to get it back. It's not self defense.
- As Baff said, a lot of what is attributed to Ahmedinjad isn't really true. Furtehrmore, he can already inflict major damage on Tel Aviv. Tomorrow I'll get you the names and types of missiles that Iran has.Your next line is funny. I'll give you some good stats regarding Islamic and Arab dislike for Israel.
1. 95-99% of all Arabs absolutely hate Israel. This includes Fundamentalists, nominal muslims, people who don't even care about Islam, Christians, fundamentalist Christians, atheist arabs, weird islamic sect arabs, and every other kind of arab. By Arab I mean those who speak arabic, not muslims from indonesia, afghanistan, pakistan, etc. People dislike Israel for takin Palestinian land and their treatment.. You don't have to be orthodox muslim to hate those that you PERCIEVE to have stolen your land and who continue to occupy and threaten your existence. You saw the shit they pulled in Lebanon which is very diverse for an Arab country, they've been pulling shit like this for years and years (refer to Baff's earlier posts). You honestly think only Orthodox Muslims hate them? Hell dude, white supramecist Christians hate Israel (albeit for sometimes different reasons). Hate may be too strong of a word, strong dislike
These people hate jews and anyone else who is an "infidel"(Nonmuslim) Do you realize that POKEMON is banned in Saudi Arabia for promoting ZIONIST PROPAGANDA?
- Orthodox Muslims most likely strongly distrust Jews, some would have severe dislike for non-muslims, but most would not do unwarranted harm. You have to realize that most muslims are from indonesia, pakistan, india, malaysia, they don't really come in contact with Jews, they probably are prejudice. I've talked to non-arab muslims, they don't even know what Jews look like whereas an Arab can pick out a jew in huge throng of people, the non-arab muslims are prejudiced against them mainly because they are influenced by Arabs which is funny. Now arab muslims (14% of all muslims) already hate Israel with a passion, so arabs already have that covered.
I'll say that again....THEY BELIEVE THAT POKEMON PROMOTES ZIONIST PROPAGANDA AND HAVE THEREFORE BANNED IT.
- Yeah, they do not support Israel's way of life or the zionist way of life. I'd think many muslims view the zionist's mission statement akin to how jews view hamas's mission statement. They do not want to support Israel so they ban one of their percieved products. Many muslims and arabs actually try to boycott products that are Israeli origin. I don't think it's much different then a super US patriot refusing to buy any car other than US made so they don't support anyone else other than the US. It would be akin to the US banning some product made by the Hamas Gov't, hell the US froze the accounts of Hamas so now they can't even pay their workers. The US doesn't agree with Hamas so they freeze their accounts. Saudi doesn't agree with zionists, so they ban pokeman
. There may be differing degrees here. I also think i misread your point lol.
Does that seem silly to you? It should, these people are so paranoid about a possible zionist takeover that they are finding zionist propaganda in friggen POKEMON. So how many other things do you think they will believe and act on? Pokemon is just the beginning folks. It sounds so friggen funny saying that, but it's true.
- Are you sure it's zionist propaganda or is it an israeli product? They ban propaganda yet support Israel's biggest ally, that's why I love Saudi, say no to pokeman for zionist propaganda, say yes to the US who funds zionism LOL. . Also, the US has a strong alliance with a bunch of crazy and scary muslims who ban propaganda, disallow women to drive, put blanket sheets over their head, how would it be different than with our friend Mahmoud?
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)
Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)
I don't harbor a deep seeded hatred for Muslims...I simply know what their holy book contains and what orthodox muslims believe, and it's some scary stuff. Ahmadinejad is one of the scary muslims, and an alliance with him would be absolutely stupid.
- When you research the Koran, next time look for something called "Tafseer of the Koran" it is historical context for almost every single verse. No disrespect to anyone who's muslim, but by reading the Koran it looks like the originator had ADD, so historical context is a must because within the chapters, the main theme can switch every few lines. It's actually, amazingly disorganized and repetitive. It may give you a new perspective. He's not that scary, I'd consider someone who lies to their people about WMD and goes against the UN in reference to war more scary. Plus Mahmoud isn't dumbI'll admit that I am no scholar of the Koran, but very few are...only a select few are allowed to view and interpret the entire koran.
I think that if you believe that Ahmadinejad desires nuclear power for energy purposes only, I think you are deluding yourself. As I said before, he claims that nuclear weapons are against islamic law, so why then does he constantly complain the the United States has nukes but the rest of the world isn't allowed to? Also, I can easily imagine a scenario in which he developed nuclear weapons as "defense" against the zionist regimes, which of course wouldn't be against islamic law.
- I don't believe for one second mahmoud desires nuclear power for energy purposes only, i think he also wants nuclear weapons and I don't blame him one bit. I agree wtih Iran's acquirement of enriched Uranium and their advancement. He should be building weapons. After what Israel did to Lebanon this past summer, he better build those weapons and soon.
If he wasn't such a loon bent on the annihilation of all things Israel, I would be more inclined to agree. Also, why so much hate for Israel? People claim that it was an unnecessary use of force...I always say that the best way to end a fight is to hit the guy as hard as you can until you are sure that they aren't going to try anything else...that's what Israel did
-In times of war, Muslims are not allowed to kill women and children. Since, WMD are not selective, dropping them would be clear cut violation of Islamic law. Now in reference to suicide bombers in Palestine for example, after years and years of having their own women and children killed, they stopped caring. I'm not so sure children are frequently targetted but I know women and men are targetted in Israel. However, in Israel everyone over 18 is a soldier, so in reality, there isn't a conflict Islamically for targetting Israeli's. I did say women is against the law, but back in teh day, women did not serve in the army and were non-combatants. This day and age isn't the same, therefore, I do not think the law against women is upheld. In reference to suicide bombings in Iraq, it's soldier vs soldier, that's fine Islamically. I'm not talking about reasons, just what would be islamically permissible if it were to ensue.
Funny how this law gets violated in every single terrorist attack...sorry but I don't care if this law exists, terrorists have showed very clearly that they don't give a damn...and Ahmadinejad is no different, you honestly think he is going to let a little thing like islamic law stop him from eliminating his hated Zionists regimes? please.
Of course every country has the right to defend themselves...Except Iran isn't talking about self defense, it's talking about removing Israel from the face of the Earth...that's not self defense. Ahmadinejad and other orthodox muslims believe that the jews unrightfully pushed them from the Iraeli lands and that gives them the right to kill them to get it back. It's not self defense.
- As Baff said, a lot of what is attributed to Ahmedinjad isn't really true. Furtehrmore, he can already inflict major damage on Tel Aviv. Tomorrow I'll get you the names and types of missiles that Iran has.
. Every arabic speaking person you will ever meet in your life will most likely harbor dislike or more against Israel, not all arabs, even Palestinians dislike Jews in a global sense.
Your next line is funny. I'll give you some good stats regarding Islamic and Arab dislike for Israel.
1. 95-99% of all Arabs absolutely hate Israel. This includes Fundamentalists, nominal muslims, people who don't even care about Islam, Christians, fundamentalist Christians, atheist arabs, weird islamic sect arabs, and every other kind of arab. By Arab I mean those who speak arabic, not muslims from indonesia, afghanistan, pakistan, etc. People dislike Israel for takin Palestinian land and their treatment.. You don't have to be orthodox muslim to hate those that you PERCIEVE to have stolen your land and who continue to occupy and threaten your existence. You saw the shit they pulled in Lebanon which is very diverse for an Arab country, they've been pulling shit like this for years and years (refer to Baff's earlier posts). You honestly think only Orthodox Muslims hate them? Hell dude, white supramecist Christians hate Israel (albeit for sometimes different reasons). Hate may be too strong of a word, strong dislike
The hatred that other religious groups have for the jews and Israel is a very different kind of hatred, and is not a hatred with "end of the world" implications, such as Ahmadinejad's hatred.
These people hate jews and anyone else who is an "infidel"(Nonmuslim) Do you realize that POKEMON is banned in Saudi Arabia for promoting ZIONIST PROPAGANDA?
- Orthodox Muslims most likely strongly distrust Jews, some would have severe dislike for non-muslims, but most would not do unwarranted harm. You have to realize that most muslims are from indonesia, pakistan, india, malaysia, they don't really come in contact with Jews, they probably are prejudice. I've talked to non-arab muslims, they don't even know what Jews look like whereas an Arab can pick out a jew in huge throng of people, the non-arab muslims are prejudiced against them mainly because they are influenced by Arabs which is funny. Now arab muslims (14% of all muslims) already hate Israel with a passion, so arabs already have that covered.
K?
I'll say that again....THEY BELIEVE THAT POKEMON PROMOTES ZIONIST PROPAGANDA AND HAVE THEREFORE BANNED IT.
- Yeah, they do not support Israel's way of life or the zionist way of life. I'd think many muslims view the zionist's mission statement akin to how jews view hamas's mission statement. They do not want to support Israel so they ban one of their percieved products. Many muslims and arabs actually try to boycott products that are Israeli origin. I don't think it's much different then a super US patriot refusing to buy any car other than US made so they don't support anyone else other than the US. It would be akin to the US banning some product made by the Hamas Gov't, hell the US froze the accounts of Hamas so now they can't even pay their workers. The US doesn't agree with Hamas so they freeze their accounts. Saudi doesn't agree with zionists, so they ban pokeman
. There may be differing degrees here. I also think i misread your point lol.
And this has to do with Pokemon how? You really don't see the insane paranoia that exists among these people about supposed zionist propaganda? That was the reason for my pointing out the ban on pokemon.
Does that seem silly to you? It should, these people are so paranoid about a possible zionist takeover that they are finding zionist propaganda in friggen POKEMON. So how many other things do you think they will believe and act on? Pokemon is just the beginning folks. It sounds so friggen funny saying that, but it's true.
- Are you sure it's zionist propaganda or is it an israeli product? They ban propaganda yet support Israel's biggest ally, that's why I love Saudi, say no to pokeman for zionist propaganda, say yes to the US who funds zionism LOL. . Also, the US has a strong alliance with a bunch of crazy and scary muslims who ban propaganda, disallow women to drive, put blanket sheets over their head, how would it be different than with our friend Mahmoud?
The specific reason stated by the government is "for the promotion of Zionist propaganda. I doubt that I could find the information again, you'll just have to trust me that it is banned over there. It might also interest you to know that Command and Conquer is banned in China
Cryomatrix
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Nice talking to you. I don't know how to say this without sounding facetious, but I respect the way you make your points, you don't go into name calling and you articulate your points. Anyway, one thing i must say is that in reference to the Koran anyone can read it and every person should read it and if they have the time read the historical context of the Koran and then make their own interpretation. I'm talking about Muslims here but in general, anyone can read it and make their own conclusions. Being an expert doesn't really mean anything to me. You can go online and put in Tafseer of the Koran and Koran and get anything you'd like to get.
You see sports "Experts" sign horrible players for long term deals, you see scientist experts screw everything up, you see experts screw things up while an amateur will get things rights. So I don't believe in needing to be an expert to necessarily intepret things. When you read up on Islam, be conscious of whether it is a shiite location or a sunni location. They can be drastic and contradictory. 5% of muslims are shiite and 95% are sunni.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.