Preaching "God did it" is the easy way out, also it depends on which interpritation of the alledged word of god you believe doesn't it. Also if you believe god did it then you believe that the world is 6000 years old and we're all decended from Noah and his wife and that the entire planet was populated from two of each speciecs, then there's the dinosaurs........ So save the I believe in the word of god BS for some village idiot that believes it!
as i already pointed out, just because it may be the easy way out, doesnt mean it has to be false. 2+2=4, thats the easy way out, but its still true. and as far as the rest of the things, (6000 yr old world, decended from Noah, two of each species, dinosaurs) that you mentioned, believing in it doesnt make you the village idiot.
Originally posted by Agricola1 Preaching "God did it" is the easy way out, also it depends on which interpritation of the alledged word of god you believe doesn't it. Also if you believe god did it then you believe that the world is 6000 years old and we're all decended from Noah and his wife and that the entire planet was populated from two of each speciecs, then there's the dinosaurs........ So save the I believe in the word of god BS for some village idiot that believes it!
lol Actually yes .... I do think that every species on the planet has come from two parents..... I think you dont understand the reproductive system if you dont
I do think all humans came from a man and a woman... the man may not have been called Noah but you get the point.... Are you seriously doubting this fact? lolololol.....
Yes I doubt this and it is not a fact that we're all descended from a single man and woman as DNA evidence has proved otherwise. It is not possible for a single species to prosper and reproduce over time from a single pair, this is a fact. Please study evoloution and the origin of species before talking out your backside.
Edit: I want to know WHere you think people came from then? Do you think one day Promethus woke up and *alakazam* he had a brain? then 2 days later *Whammm* his thumb turned around and became opposable.. LOL who are you calling the village idiot?
I believe as Darwin did that we're descended from a process of natural selection where many diffrent species of apes have intermingled and shared genes overtime. There have been many species of Humans in the past many living at the sametime as eachother and within close proximity. Like apes before them they intermingled and through natural selection we were selected. This didn't happen one day and bam two homo sapiens were born one male and one female and they are the progenitors of our entire race. Homo sapiens developed in more than one place at different rates, the reason we have a species but with with different looks Africans, Asians and caucasian beign three basic inherent cosmetic differences in our species.
Now I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind your belief that the entire human species came from one man and one woman?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
If in the beginning there was only one man and one woman, then we are all children of incest and are damned anyways. And if wew are all the result of inbreeding, why aren't we all hemophilliacs?
Originally posted by Agricola1 Preaching "God did it" is the easy way out, also it depends on which interpritation of the alledged word of god you believe doesn't it. Also if you believe god did it then you believe that the world is 6000 years old and we're all decended from Noah and his wife and that the entire planet was populated from two of each speciecs, then there's the dinosaurs........ So save the I believe in the word of god BS for some village idiot that believes it!
As I posted before, saying God did it doesn't necessarily give an easy way out. Even if God did do it, what exactly was it He did? How did He do it? Why? Many scientists believe they are learning more about God as they discover more about His creation.
It really doesn't follow that if you believe in God then you believe the world is 6000 years old.
Are you aware that Darwin believed in God when he wrote The Origins of the Species?
Yes I doubt this and it is not a fact that we're all descended from a single man and woman as DNA evidence has proved otherwise. It is not possible for a single species to prosper and reproduce over time from a single pair, this is a fact. Please study evoloution and the origin of species before talking out your backside. If you put a male and female mouse in a barn and come back a year later you'll have a small army. I believe as Darwin did that we're descended from a process of natural selection where many diffrent species of apes have intermingled and shared genes overtime. There have been many species of Humans in the past many living at the sametime as eachother and within close proximity. Like apes before them they intermingled and through natural selection we were selected. This didn't happen one day and bam two homo sapiens were born one male and one female and they are the progenitors of our entire race. Homo sapiens developed in more than one place at different rates, the reason we have a species but with with different looks Africans, Asians and caucasian beign three basic inherent cosmetic differences in our species. Now I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind your belief that the entire human species came from one man and one woman? now that you define your point better, I see where you're coming from (I have a head ache so my head isn't working too good today) Any further arguement on my part will be mostly philosophical and therefore irrelevant... to this argument And I DEFINITElLy do not want this to turn into a philosophical debate (holds up crusifix to Freethinker).... Just know this.... scientific Life didn't start out with the complex DNA we have now... it got more and more complex... So why believe that the Vat of DNA is too weak between two entities to produce a civilization? By now humans have inbred hundreds of times over why can we still advance as a people?
edit: PRIMORDIALSOUPDIDIT
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
Originally posted by Agricola1 Preaching "God did it" is the easy way out, also it depends on which interpritation of the alledged word of god you believe doesn't it. Also if you believe god did it then you believe that the world is 6000 years old and we're all decended from Noah and his wife and that the entire planet was populated from two of each speciecs, then there's the dinosaurs........ So save the I believe in the word of god BS for some village idiot that believes it!
lol Actually yes .... I do think that every species on the planet has come from two parents..... I think you dont understand the reproductive system if you dont
I do think all humans came from a man and a woman... the man may not have been called Noah but you get the point.... Are you seriously doubting this fact? lolololol.....
Yes I doubt this and it is not a fact that we're all descended from a single man and woman as DNA evidence has proved otherwise. It is not possible for a single species to prosper and reproduce over time from a single pair, this is a fact. Please study evoloution and the origin of species before talking out your backside.
it is possible and it is a fact. evolution is not a fact, its a theory, please dont confuse the two.
Edit: I want to know WHere you think people came from then? Do you think one day Promethus woke up and *alakazam* he had a brain? then 2 days later *Whammm* his thumb turned around and became opposable.. LOL who are you calling the village idiot?
I believe as Darwin did that we're descended from a process of natural selection where many diffrent species of apes have intermingled and shared genes overtime. There have been many species of Humans in the past many living at the sametime as eachother and within close proximity. Like apes before them they intermingled and through natural selection we were selected. This didn't happen one day and bam two homo sapiens were born one male and one female and they are the progenitors of our entire race. Homo sapiens developed in more than one place at different rates, the reason we have a species but with with different looks Africans, Asians and caucasian beign three basic inherent cosmetic differences in our species.
Darwin believed in God. and Darwin renounced his own theories, very reliable, eh?
Now I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind your belief that the entire human species came from one man and one woman?
Yes I doubt this and it is not a fact that we're all descended from a single man and woman as DNA evidence has proved otherwise. It is not possible for a single species to prosper and reproduce over time from a single pair, this is a fact. Please study evoloution and the origin of species before talking out your backside. If you put a male and female mouse in a barn and come back a year later you'll have a small army. I believe as Darwin did that we're descended from a process of natural selection where many diffrent species of apes have intermingled and shared genes overtime. There have been many species of Humans in the past many living at the sametime as eachother and within close proximity. Like apes before them they intermingled and through natural selection we were selected. This didn't happen one day and bam two homo sapiens were born one male and one female and they are the progenitors of our entire race. Homo sapiens developed in more than one place at different rates, the reason we have a species but with with different looks Africans, Asians and caucasian beign three basic inherent cosmetic differences in our species. Now I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind your belief that the entire human species came from one man and one woman? now that you define your point better, I see where you're coming from (I have a head ache so my head isn't working too good today) Any further arguement on my part will be mostly philosophical and therefore irrelevant... to this argument And I DEFINITElLy do not want this to turn into a philosophical debate (holds up crusifix to Freethinker).... Just know this.... scientific Life didn't start out with the complex DNA we have now... it got more and more complex... So why believe that the Vat of DNA is too weak between two entities to produce a civilization? By now humans have inbred hundreds of times over why can we still advance as a people?
edit: PRIMORDIALSOUPDIDIT
Well I don't believe that a gene pool of two beings no matter what species is enough stock to breed from, I also believe this has been proven as fact. It would produce congential defects ending in infertility, you only need to look at many of the european monarchies that suffered from madness and haemophillia due to inbreeding.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Originally posted by Agricola1 Preaching "God did it" is the easy way out, also it depends on which interpritation of the alledged word of god you believe doesn't it. Also if you believe god did it then you believe that the world is 6000 years old and we're all decended from Noah and his wife and that the entire planet was populated from two of each speciecs, then there's the dinosaurs........ So save the I believe in the word of god BS for some village idiot that believes it!
lol Actually yes .... I do think that every species on the planet has come from two parents..... I think you dont understand the reproductive system if you dont
I do think all humans came from a man and a woman... the man may not have been called Noah but you get the point.... Are you seriously doubting this fact? lolololol.....
Yes I doubt this and it is not a fact that we're all descended from a single man and woman as DNA evidence has proved otherwise. It is not possible for a single species to prosper and reproduce over time from a single pair, this is a fact. Please study evoloution and the origin of species before talking out your backside.
it is possible and it is a fact. evolution is not a fact, its a theory, please dont confuse the two.
Edit: I want to know WHere you think people came from then? Do you think one day Promethus woke up and *alakazam* he had a brain? then 2 days later *Whammm* his thumb turned around and became opposable.. LOL who are you calling the village idiot?
I believe as Darwin did that we're descended from a process of natural selection where many diffrent species of apes have intermingled and shared genes overtime. There have been many species of Humans in the past many living at the sametime as eachother and within close proximity. Like apes before them they intermingled and through natural selection we were selected. This didn't happen one day and bam two homo sapiens were born one male and one female and they are the progenitors of our entire race. Homo sapiens developed in more than one place at different rates, the reason we have a species but with with different looks Africans, Asians and caucasian beign three basic inherent cosmetic differences in our species.
Darwin believed in God. and Darwin renounced his own theories, very reliable, eh?
Now I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind your belief that the entire human species came from one man and one woman?
If you believe it is possibile to breed a race for say 200,000 years (common life span of the average genus) from an original breeding stock of one mating pair then you are a fool sir.
You believe evoloution is not fact? Well it's the accepted scientific explination in my country, I wonder what they teach children in science where you live!
What do you find to be the most believable theory?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
If you believe it is possibile to breed a race for say 200,000 years (common life span of the average genus) from an original breeding stock of one mating pair then you are a fool sir.
You believe evoloution is not fact? Well it's the accepted scientific explination in my country, I wonder what they teach children in science where you live!
What do you find to be the most believable theory?
nope, its prolly not possible to breed a race for 200k years. since the earth is only 6k yrears old, i think were safe.
and i dont "believe" evolution is not fact. its a fact that its an theory. accepted or not, its still just a theory (not even a good one, IMO). and they teach evolution in schools where i live. makes me sick.
i dont have a theory thats "believable". i have God and the Bible to back me up. and science reflects it. i know, i know, you dont think so.....haha, well too bad.
believe whatever you want, i wont call you names and disrespect you for it. please do me the same service, if you are capable of that.
EDIT: btw, even Darwin didnt even believe his own theories, why should you?
If you believe it is possibile to breed a race for say 200,000 years (common life span of the average genus) from an original breeding stock of one mating pair then you are a fool sir.
You believe evoloution is not fact? Well it's the accepted scientific explination in my country, I wonder what they teach children in science where you live!
What do you find to be the most believable theory?
nope, its prolly not possible to breed a race for 200k years. since the earth is only 6k yrears old, i think were safe.
and i dont "believe" evolution is not fact. its a fact that its an theory. accepted or not, its still just a theory (not even a good one, IMO). and they teach evolution in schools where i live. makes me sick.
i dont have a theory thats "believable". i have God and the Bible to back me up. and science reflects it. i know, i know, you dont think so.....haha, well too bad.
believe whatever you want, i wont call you names and disrespect you for it. please do me the same service, if you are capable of that.
EDIT: btw, even Darwin didnt even believe his own theories, why should you?
Darwin renounced his theories because of religous nutters like you that felt threatened by him, and were afraid they'd lose their ability to fleece their flock for "donations" to help god.
Maybe there's a reason they teach evoloution in science and not the bible?
You have the bible to back you up? Who wrote that? How many times has that been revised and how many different versions are there? Also there are many different gods, allah, kryshna, elligah then there's buddha and ancestor worship. The problem with your little theory about god is that there's many people with different gods and their own little god theories, trouble is they can't all be right now can they?
The closest you have to scientific proof that god created everything in 7 days is the Turin shroud and that was carbon dated to the middle ages. You have a book that has been revised for centuries until it's now something very different from when it was first written, by a man not a god. We only have that mans word for it that he was writing down the word of god too, so basicaly you believe "some guy" that says god spoke to him. If I said god spoke to me and told me you have to go work 12hrs a day and give me all the money, would you? If not why not? You give your time and money to a guy in a skirt because "some guy" claimed he was gods secretary!
I'll take evoloution and the big bang, Stephen Hawking might be right or wrong but he doesn't claim to be in contact with god so I know he isn't nuts!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
If you believe it is possibile to breed a race for say 200,000 years (common life span of the average genus) from an original breeding stock of one mating pair then you are a fool sir.
You believe evoloution is not fact? Well it's the accepted scientific explination in my country, I wonder what they teach children in science where you live!
What do you find to be the most believable theory?
nope, its prolly not possible to breed a race for 200k years. since the earth is only 6k yrears old, i think were safe.
and i dont "believe" evolution is not fact. its a fact that its an theory. accepted or not, its still just a theory (not even a good one, IMO). and they teach evolution in schools where i live. makes me sick.
i dont have a theory thats "believable". i have God and the Bible to back me up. and science reflects it. i know, i know, you dont think so.....haha, well too bad.
believe whatever you want, i wont call you names and disrespect you for it. please do me the same service, if you are capable of that.
EDIT: btw, even Darwin didnt even believe his own theories, why should you?
Darwin renounced his theories because of religous nutters like you that felt threatened by him, and were afraid they'd lose their ability to fleece their flock for "donations" to help god.
lol, seriously, you gotta be kidding me. he renounced his theories because he saw the enormous holes in them.
Maybe there's a reason they teach evoloution in science and not the bible?
yeah, its called propaganda, our world is full of it.
You have the bible to back you up? Who wrote that? How many times has that been revised and how many different versions are there? Also there are many different gods, allah, kryshna, elligah then there's buddha and ancestor worship. The problem with your little theory about god is that there's many people with different gods and their own little god theories, trouble is they can't all be right now can they?
dont see why they cant all be right in general. they all deal with a single god, they just worship him differently. and yes, some Bibles have been revised many times over, but there are still some versions of the Bible that has only been translated once, and ironicly the message contained in them is the same as in the revised versions. btw, me God isnt a theory, Hes a reality.
The closest you have to scientific proof that god created everything in 7 days is the Turin shroud and that was carbon dated to the middle ages. You have a book that has been revised for centuries until it's now something very different from when it was first written, by a man not a god. We only have that mans word for it that he was writing down the word of god too, so basicaly you believe "some guy" that says god spoke to him. If I said god spoke to me and told me you have to go work 12hrs a day and give me all the money, would you? If not why not? You give your time and money to a guy in a skirt because "some guy" claimed he was gods secretary!
do you have a book that has been written in over a span of 3000 years saying that i need to give you me money, lol? if so, i might consider it, because that would mean that youre over 3000 years old or that a prophet prophecied that youd say that. either way that would be quite impressive. oO and what "guy" do you know that you give your money to, that wears a skirt? i dont know anyone. Oo and i dont attend church so i dont give anyone me money. throws out your whole arguement, eh?
I'll take evoloution and the big bang, Stephen Hawking might be right or wrong but he doesn't claim to be in contact with god so I know he isn't nuts!
you can take evolution and the big bang, im not twisting your arm and making you believe what i believe. im not even calling you "nuts".......
Can we please keep gods out of this one? There're already 2 threads up with that conversation. And please get a definition and look up the word theory. In no way did I even incinuate that it was, could, or may be fact. It is merely a point of reference.
How do you propose to talk about the beginning of the universe without talking about God? Qualify your origional post with "completely naturalistic and godless ways that everything came to be only" or you're going to get us Jesus freaks talking about our crazy notion of a God being required to create something from nothing.
I'm pretty sure you understood exactly what I meant when i said lets leave god out of this one. I can acknowledge your intelligence Draenor, but your complete lack of logic and reason scares me a little sometimes. You should run for president.
I don't understand exactly what you mean by "let's leave God out of this one" if you are telling me that you don't just want to limit it to completely naturalistic points of view...then what the hell do you mean? And I realize that you didn't say that the big bang was fact, but you did say that it is the theory that you most closely subscribe to...which is why I made reference to it in my post. So does this mean that you don't want the great list of logical reasons of why the big bang is bunk?
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by my complete lack of logic and reason. How can a person be intelligent but lack logic and reason ? Obviously I am either intelligent and have logic and reason, or I am unintelligent. Perhaps you were just being nice by "acknowledging my intelligence" Perhaps you were just refering to the way I write. In any case, if you feel that I am intelligent, then why are you so resistant to even entertaining the ideas of creationism? If I am an intelligent person, then wouldn't that mean that you wouldn't have to be a total doofus to believe in creationism?
I won't run for president, I'm too honest and headstrong to be president.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
If in the beginning there was only one man and one woman, then we are all children of incest and are damned anyways. And if wew are all the result of inbreeding, why aren't we all hemophilliacs?
Go read the Bible on this subject before you ever talk about this again, it is adressed.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by Agricola1 Preaching "God did it" is the easy way out, also it depends on which interpritation of the alledged word of god you believe doesn't it. Also if you believe god did it then you believe that the world is 6000 years old and we're all decended from Noah and his wife and that the entire planet was populated from two of each speciecs, then there's the dinosaurs........ So save the I believe in the word of god BS for some village idiot that believes it!
lol Actually yes .... I do think that every species on the planet has come from two parents..... I think you dont understand the reproductive system if you dont
I do think all humans came from a man and a woman... the man may not have been called Noah but you get the point.... Are you seriously doubting this fact? lolololol.....
Yes I doubt this and it is not a fact that we're all descended from a single man and woman as DNA evidence has proved otherwise. It is not possible for a single species to prosper and reproduce over time from a single pair, this is a fact. Please study evoloution and the origin of species before talking out your backside.
it is possible and it is a fact. evolution is not a fact, its a theory, please dont confuse the two.
Edit: I want to know WHere you think people came from then? Do you think one day Promethus woke up and *alakazam* he had a brain? then 2 days later *Whammm* his thumb turned around and became opposable.. LOL who are you calling the village idiot?
I believe as Darwin did that we're descended from a process of natural selection where many diffrent species of apes have intermingled and shared genes overtime. There have been many species of Humans in the past many living at the sametime as eachother and within close proximity. Like apes before them they intermingled and through natural selection we were selected. This didn't happen one day and bam two homo sapiens were born one male and one female and they are the progenitors of our entire race. Homo sapiens developed in more than one place at different rates, the reason we have a species but with with different looks Africans, Asians and caucasian beign three basic inherent cosmetic differences in our species.
Darwin believed in God. and Darwin renounced his own theories, very reliable, eh?
Now I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind your belief that the entire human species came from one man and one woman?
If you believe it is possibile to breed a race for say 200,000 years (common life span of the average genus) from an original breeding stock of one mating pair then you are a fool sir.
You believe evoloution is not fact? Well it's the accepted scientific explination in my country, I wonder what they teach children in science where you live!
What do you find to be the most believable theory?
Indeed it would be difficult with the life spans of current humans, and this is adressed by the Bible.
Evolution is not fact, anyone who states that evolution is fact is ignorant, even the champion of Evolution, Richard Dawkins would not claim that evolution is fact. It is accepted as the most plausable naturalistic explanation as to how life becomes complex. Unfortunately it doesn't account for how life appears. I could go into the myriad of reasons why evolution cannot be true, but since Infliction wanted a thread about the origins of all matter...I guess I won't. And btw, they teach evolution in the public schools in my area. I went to public school and recieved my evolution indoctrination...I believed it until I actually decided to get the facts about evolution. Which is why I am constantly suggesting that other people do the same. Know what you believe in people, if you don't know what you believe in, then you are just a zealot.
I find creationism to be the most believable theory, care to debate? start another thread.
also, Plano: there is little to no evidence that Darwin recanted on his death bed, so I wouldn't use that as ammunition in a debate.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I have an answer, and I honestly do believe this to be true as insane as it may sound. I believe this is a simulation. Allow me to explain, it's expected that very soon (most likely in the next few 10's of years) we will have computers able to simulate worlds, just like the simulations we make to determine weather effects, but these new simulations will be correct to the particle, correct to the atom and correct to the quark, correct to the finest matter in the universe. When we get to this stage we will be able to simulate organisms, and because it's correct to the particle rather than just correct to the body (today's simulations) then these organisms will think they are real. They will interact with their virtual worlds just as we do, and when we are finally able to do this we will be able to create simulations of an entire universe, then we can start creating simulations that reflect our own universe, then we can skip the intro and see what happens in the future in this specific universe which will give a rough estimate of our own futures, and this also means we will be able to check worlds far from our own in this simulation in search of life. So when we're able to make these simulations we'll be able to create them in seconds, and in the thousands, and it can only get easier from then on.
So is it not even worth considering that we are in fact a simulation? Possibly made by humans, or some intelligent form of life far different from our own, it's even possible that the creators of this simulation don't even acknowledge our presence, or maybe they're only interested in the universe millions of years from now, they may be interested in something else and we're just in the background.
A good indication that we are a simulation is time travel has been proven to work, there are people who are building the mechanics for time travel as we speak, and although we are still far from being able to use these machines we still know that one day they will be done in the future, so if there's going to be time traveling in the future then where are the time travelers? Well the theory behind this method of time travel requires there to be an existence outside of our own dimension, it requires there to be more dimensions, and the only possible way of there not being an existence outside of this dimension is if we're in a simulation.
So if this is true (and if you think about it, it's incredibly likely that it is) then the big bang was merely the beginning of the simulation, someone just pressed go and the computer began its work. That's what I believe.
If in the beginning there was only one man and one woman, then we are all children of incest and are damned anyways. And if wew are all the result of inbreeding, why aren't we all hemophilliacs?
Go read the Bible on this subject before you ever talk about this again, it is adressed.
Sorry, but my King James doesn't mention hemophillia. It does say Kain dwelt in the land of Nod and took a wife. Where'd she come from btw if it was just adam and eve? Musta been his sister.
I've read the bible, the quran, Toa te ching, I ching, bagdahavagita, and dianetics.
Perhaps you should reread the bible. I recommend the new testament.
BTW your sig could just as easily be turned on you.
Just to recap the thread, th OP wanted some information about the beginnings of the universe. He specifically asked for non-religious explanantions. Religion crashed the party anyway.
So since this thread has become a furball, I'd like to put forth a theory on aetheism that's bound to anger both sides.
God created the world and man
God saw that his creation had become corrupt, so he washed it away with 40 days and nights of rain and flood (except Noah).
God looked and saw again that his creation ahd become corrupt. So unto them he sent his son Jesus to try and teach them.
God looked again upon his creation and saw corruption. Well flooding didn't work and neither did teaching. And so god created aetheists so that his followers might hear voices of rationality and that they might keep religious ferver grounded.
then what are the unsure people for? I have thought about that stimulation thing before and I reached the conclusion that if I don't really exist I exist as a thought and in that way I not only exist but am an imaginary person. That means If the controler of this stimulation
wanted me to be I could be,and might as well be,a god under the control of a law.
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
Btw, no, many religions have multiple gods... Norse, Greek, Romans, Buddhism, etc...
the more I think about it, the more I am an atheist... I'm not really saying there isn't a supreme being, but I find it ridiculously farfetched for the argument that "God" is benevolent and that "God" can think with the fact that he doesn't have any physical form ( I don't think gas can think, trees probably can't either, etc... But I guess there's no proof for that )...
Here's a question, ( o btw, I find what that Jester guy talks about the theory of something consciousness is alot more logical )... We have a brain, and it is shown that the brain is what allows us to think, identify, perceive... Suppose a person sees blue as grey and grey as grey, aren't those 2 colors grey then? A table as a chair? Girl as a Guy or vice versa? Hell as Heaven? Suppose someone enjoys Hell, then wouldn't that make it heaven to them? Would "God" magically make him suffer eventhough he's naturally incapable of pain? But then that would make "God" sadistic... Anyways, doesn't it really just all boil down to consciousness/perception? My universe is different from yours... ( Note- the reason I used that hell=heaven comparison is this, forces are always acting on us, in other words at the moment we should be feeling pain, but we're not because we've adapted to it and don't perceive it as such... )
Anyways, what makes alot more sense to me would be that the law is god or rather the only true supreme being... If "God" truly exists, he would be govern by a law, which I would call the law of existence... Can you truly say we exist if we can't even percieve our own existence? Anyways, I like the idea of yin and yang better, if applied to this, maybe existence came to be, because of us and all other things. In other words, at the same time "existence" is or has created us, we are creating "existence"... the framework in which we live in...
Comments
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lol Actually yes .... I do think that every species on the planet has come from two parents..... I think you dont understand the reproductive system if you dont
I do think all humans came from a man and a woman... the man may not have been called Noah but you get the point.... Are you seriously doubting this fact? lolololol.....
Yes I doubt this and it is not a fact that we're all descended from a single man and woman as DNA evidence has proved otherwise. It is not possible for a single species to prosper and reproduce over time from a single pair, this is a fact. Please study evoloution and the origin of species before talking out your backside.
Edit: I want to know WHere you think people came from then? Do you think one day Promethus woke up and *alakazam* he had a brain? then 2 days later *Whammm* his thumb turned around and became opposable.. LOL who are you calling the village idiot?
I believe as Darwin did that we're descended from a process of natural selection where many diffrent species of apes have intermingled and shared genes overtime. There have been many species of Humans in the past many living at the sametime as eachother and within close proximity. Like apes before them they intermingled and through natural selection we were selected. This didn't happen one day and bam two homo sapiens were born one male and one female and they are the progenitors of our entire race. Homo sapiens developed in more than one place at different rates, the reason we have a species but with with different looks Africans, Asians and caucasian beign three basic inherent cosmetic differences in our species.
Now I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind your belief that the entire human species came from one man and one woman?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
If in the beginning there was only one man and one woman, then we are all children of incest and are damned anyways. And if wew are all the result of inbreeding, why aren't we all hemophilliacs?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
As I posted before, saying God did it doesn't necessarily give an easy way out. Even if God did do it, what exactly was it He did? How did He do it? Why? Many scientists believe they are learning more about God as they discover more about His creation.
It really doesn't follow that if you believe in God then you believe the world is 6000 years old.
Are you aware that Darwin believed in God when he wrote The Origins of the Species?
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
lol Actually yes .... I do think that every species on the planet has come from two parents..... I think you dont understand the reproductive system if you dont
I do think all humans came from a man and a woman... the man may not have been called Noah but you get the point.... Are you seriously doubting this fact? lolololol.....
Yes I doubt this and it is not a fact that we're all descended from a single man and woman as DNA evidence has proved otherwise. It is not possible for a single species to prosper and reproduce over time from a single pair, this is a fact. Please study evoloution and the origin of species before talking out your backside.
it is possible and it is a fact. evolution is not a fact, its a theory, please dont confuse the two.
Edit: I want to know WHere you think people came from then? Do you think one day Promethus woke up and *alakazam* he had a brain? then 2 days later *Whammm* his thumb turned around and became opposable.. LOL who are you calling the village idiot?
I believe as Darwin did that we're descended from a process of natural selection where many diffrent species of apes have intermingled and shared genes overtime. There have been many species of Humans in the past many living at the sametime as eachother and within close proximity. Like apes before them they intermingled and through natural selection we were selected. This didn't happen one day and bam two homo sapiens were born one male and one female and they are the progenitors of our entire race. Homo sapiens developed in more than one place at different rates, the reason we have a species but with with different looks Africans, Asians and caucasian beign three basic inherent cosmetic differences in our species.
Darwin believed in God. and Darwin renounced his own theories, very reliable, eh?
Now I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind your belief that the entire human species came from one man and one woman?
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That pretty much sums it up.
Now with 57.3% more flames!
Nah, that's science. Some people will read that and go into denial.
Well I don't believe that a gene pool of two beings no matter what species is enough stock to breed from, I also believe this has been proven as fact. It would produce congential defects ending in infertility, you only need to look at many of the european monarchies that suffered from madness and haemophillia due to inbreeding.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
lol Actually yes .... I do think that every species on the planet has come from two parents..... I think you dont understand the reproductive system if you dont
I do think all humans came from a man and a woman... the man may not have been called Noah but you get the point.... Are you seriously doubting this fact? lolololol.....
Yes I doubt this and it is not a fact that we're all descended from a single man and woman as DNA evidence has proved otherwise. It is not possible for a single species to prosper and reproduce over time from a single pair, this is a fact. Please study evoloution and the origin of species before talking out your backside.
it is possible and it is a fact. evolution is not a fact, its a theory, please dont confuse the two.
Edit: I want to know WHere you think people came from then? Do you think one day Promethus woke up and *alakazam* he had a brain? then 2 days later *Whammm* his thumb turned around and became opposable.. LOL who are you calling the village idiot?
I believe as Darwin did that we're descended from a process of natural selection where many diffrent species of apes have intermingled and shared genes overtime. There have been many species of Humans in the past many living at the sametime as eachother and within close proximity. Like apes before them they intermingled and through natural selection we were selected. This didn't happen one day and bam two homo sapiens were born one male and one female and they are the progenitors of our entire race. Homo sapiens developed in more than one place at different rates, the reason we have a species but with with different looks Africans, Asians and caucasian beign three basic inherent cosmetic differences in our species.
Darwin believed in God. and Darwin renounced his own theories, very reliable, eh?
Now I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind your belief that the entire human species came from one man and one woman?
If you believe it is possibile to breed a race for say 200,000 years (common life span of the average genus) from an original breeding stock of one mating pair then you are a fool sir.
You believe evoloution is not fact? Well it's the accepted scientific explination in my country, I wonder what they teach children in science where you live!
What do you find to be the most believable theory?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
call it denial if you wanna, but i dont put me faith in a man or woman to tell me the origins of the universe.
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If you believe it is possibile to breed a race for say 200,000 years (common life span of the average genus) from an original breeding stock of one mating pair then you are a fool sir.
You believe evoloution is not fact? Well it's the accepted scientific explination in my country, I wonder what they teach children in science where you live!
What do you find to be the most believable theory?
nope, its prolly not possible to breed a race for 200k years. since the earth is only 6k yrears old, i think were safeand i dont "believe" evolution is not fact. its a fact that its an theory. accepted or not, its still just a theory (not even a good one, IMO). and they teach evolution in schools where i live. makes me sick.
i dont have a theory thats "believable". i have God and the Bible to back me up. and science reflects it. i know, i know, you dont think so.....haha, well too bad.
believe whatever you want, i wont call you names and disrespect you for it. please do me the same service, if you are capable of that.
EDIT: btw, even Darwin didnt even believe his own theories, why should you?
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If you believe it is possibile to breed a race for say 200,000 years (common life span of the average genus) from an original breeding stock of one mating pair then you are a fool sir.
You believe evoloution is not fact? Well it's the accepted scientific explination in my country, I wonder what they teach children in science where you live!
What do you find to be the most believable theory?
nope, its prolly not possible to breed a race for 200k years. since the earth is only 6k yrears old, i think were safeand i dont "believe" evolution is not fact. its a fact that its an theory. accepted or not, its still just a theory (not even a good one, IMO). and they teach evolution in schools where i live. makes me sick.
i dont have a theory thats "believable". i have God and the Bible to back me up. and science reflects it. i know, i know, you dont think so.....haha, well too bad.
believe whatever you want, i wont call you names and disrespect you for it. please do me the same service, if you are capable of that.
EDIT: btw, even Darwin didnt even believe his own theories, why should you?
Darwin renounced his theories because of religous nutters like you that felt threatened by him, and were afraid they'd lose their ability to fleece their flock for "donations" to help god.
Maybe there's a reason they teach evoloution in science and not the bible?
You have the bible to back you up? Who wrote that? How many times has that been revised and how many different versions are there? Also there are many different gods, allah, kryshna, elligah then there's buddha and ancestor worship. The problem with your little theory about god is that there's many people with different gods and their own little god theories, trouble is they can't all be right now can they?
The closest you have to scientific proof that god created everything in 7 days is the Turin shroud and that was carbon dated to the middle ages. You have a book that has been revised for centuries until it's now something very different from when it was first written, by a man not a god. We only have that mans word for it that he was writing down the word of god too, so basicaly you believe "some guy" that says god spoke to him. If I said god spoke to me and told me you have to go work 12hrs a day and give me all the money, would you? If not why not? You give your time and money to a guy in a skirt because "some guy" claimed he was gods secretary!
I'll take evoloution and the big bang, Stephen Hawking might be right or wrong but he doesn't claim to be in contact with god so I know he isn't nuts!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
call it denial if you wanna, but i dont put me faith in a man or woman to tell me the origins of the universe.
Don't leave yourself open like that - you know what the obvious comeback is going to be from card-carrying atheists like me are, don't you?
call it denial if you wanna, but i dont put me faith in a man or woman to tell me the origins of the universe.
Don't leave yourself open like that - you know what the obvious comeback is going to be from card-carrying atheists like me are, don't you?
i did it on purpose, i wanted you to. cause then i could tell you that i experience God, and learn from Him. the Word and the Spirit agree as one.______________________________
If you believe it is possibile to breed a race for say 200,000 years (common life span of the average genus) from an original breeding stock of one mating pair then you are a fool sir.
You believe evoloution is not fact? Well it's the accepted scientific explination in my country, I wonder what they teach children in science where you live!
What do you find to be the most believable theory?
nope, its prolly not possible to breed a race for 200k years. since the earth is only 6k yrears old, i think were safeand i dont "believe" evolution is not fact. its a fact that its an theory. accepted or not, its still just a theory (not even a good one, IMO). and they teach evolution in schools where i live. makes me sick.
i dont have a theory thats "believable". i have God and the Bible to back me up. and science reflects it. i know, i know, you dont think so.....haha, well too bad.
believe whatever you want, i wont call you names and disrespect you for it. please do me the same service, if you are capable of that.
EDIT: btw, even Darwin didnt even believe his own theories, why should you?
Darwin renounced his theories because of religous nutters like you that felt threatened by him, and were afraid they'd lose their ability to fleece their flock for "donations" to help god.
lol, seriously, you gotta be kidding me. he renounced his theories because he saw the enormous holes in them.
Maybe there's a reason they teach evoloution in science and not the bible?
yeah, its called propaganda, our world is full of it.
You have the bible to back you up? Who wrote that? How many times has that been revised and how many different versions are there? Also there are many different gods, allah, kryshna, elligah then there's buddha and ancestor worship. The problem with your little theory about god is that there's many people with different gods and their own little god theories, trouble is they can't all be right now can they?
dont see why they cant all be right in general. they all deal with a single god, they just worship him differently. and yes, some Bibles have been revised many times over, but there are still some versions of the Bible that has only been translated once, and ironicly the message contained in them is the same as in the revised versions. btw, me God isnt a theory, Hes a reality.
The closest you have to scientific proof that god created everything in 7 days is the Turin shroud and that was carbon dated to the middle ages. You have a book that has been revised for centuries until it's now something very different from when it was first written, by a man not a god. We only have that mans word for it that he was writing down the word of god too, so basicaly you believe "some guy" that says god spoke to him. If I said god spoke to me and told me you have to go work 12hrs a day and give me all the money, would you? If not why not? You give your time and money to a guy in a skirt because "some guy" claimed he was gods secretary!
do you have a book that has been written in over a span of 3000 years saying that i need to give you me money, lol? if so, i might consider it, because that would mean that youre over 3000 years old or that a prophet prophecied that youd say that. either way that would be quite impressive. oO and what "guy" do you know that you give your money to, that wears a skirt? i dont know anyone. Oo and i dont attend church so i dont give anyone me money. throws out your whole arguement, eh?
I'll take evoloution and the big bang, Stephen Hawking might be right or wrong but he doesn't claim to be in contact with god so I know he isn't nuts!
you can take evolution and the big bang, im not twisting your arm and making you believe what i believe. im not even calling you "nuts".......
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I'm pretty sure you understood exactly what I meant when i said lets leave god out of this one. I can acknowledge your intelligence Draenor, but your complete lack of logic and reason scares me a little sometimes. You should run for president.
I don't understand exactly what you mean by "let's leave God out of this one" if you are telling me that you don't just want to limit it to completely naturalistic points of view...then what the hell do you mean? And I realize that you didn't say that the big bang was fact, but you did say that it is the theory that you most closely subscribe to...which is why I made reference to it in my post. So does this mean that you don't want the great list of logical reasons of why the big bang is bunk?
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by my complete lack of logic and reason. How can a person be intelligent but lack logic and reason ? Obviously I am either intelligent and have logic and reason, or I am unintelligent. Perhaps you were just being nice by "acknowledging my intelligence" Perhaps you were just refering to the way I write. In any case, if you feel that I am intelligent, then why are you so resistant to even entertaining the ideas of creationism? If I am an intelligent person, then wouldn't that mean that you wouldn't have to be a total doofus to believe in creationism?
I won't run for president, I'm too honest and headstrong to be president.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
lol Actually yes .... I do think that every species on the planet has come from two parents..... I think you dont understand the reproductive system if you dont
I do think all humans came from a man and a woman... the man may not have been called Noah but you get the point.... Are you seriously doubting this fact? lolololol.....
Yes I doubt this and it is not a fact that we're all descended from a single man and woman as DNA evidence has proved otherwise. It is not possible for a single species to prosper and reproduce over time from a single pair, this is a fact. Please study evoloution and the origin of species before talking out your backside.
it is possible and it is a fact. evolution is not a fact, its a theory, please dont confuse the two.
Edit: I want to know WHere you think people came from then? Do you think one day Promethus woke up and *alakazam* he had a brain? then 2 days later *Whammm* his thumb turned around and became opposable.. LOL who are you calling the village idiot?
I believe as Darwin did that we're descended from a process of natural selection where many diffrent species of apes have intermingled and shared genes overtime. There have been many species of Humans in the past many living at the sametime as eachother and within close proximity. Like apes before them they intermingled and through natural selection we were selected. This didn't happen one day and bam two homo sapiens were born one male and one female and they are the progenitors of our entire race. Homo sapiens developed in more than one place at different rates, the reason we have a species but with with different looks Africans, Asians and caucasian beign three basic inherent cosmetic differences in our species.
Darwin believed in God. and Darwin renounced his own theories, very reliable, eh?
Now I'm curious to know what the reasoning is behind your belief that the entire human species came from one man and one woman?
If you believe it is possibile to breed a race for say 200,000 years (common life span of the average genus) from an original breeding stock of one mating pair then you are a fool sir.
You believe evoloution is not fact? Well it's the accepted scientific explination in my country, I wonder what they teach children in science where you live!
What do you find to be the most believable theory?
Indeed it would be difficult with the life spans of current humans, and this is adressed by the Bible.
Evolution is not fact, anyone who states that evolution is fact is ignorant, even the champion of Evolution, Richard Dawkins would not claim that evolution is fact. It is accepted as the most plausable naturalistic explanation as to how life becomes complex. Unfortunately it doesn't account for how life appears. I could go into the myriad of reasons why evolution cannot be true, but since Infliction wanted a thread about the origins of all matter...I guess I won't. And btw, they teach evolution in the public schools in my area. I went to public school and recieved my evolution indoctrination...I believed it until I actually decided to get the facts about evolution. Which is why I am constantly suggesting that other people do the same. Know what you believe in people, if you don't know what you believe in, then you are just a zealot.
I find creationism to be the most believable theory, care to debate? start another thread.
also, Plano: there is little to no evidence that Darwin recanted on his death bed, so I wouldn't use that as ammunition in a debate.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
First of all:evalution is as possible as a god.Far-fetched,but so is a bieng who created earth then bilions of years later shows his
back to a small sheperd. If you believe we were all of a suden created then how could a race suvive for billions of years?
I personally am a person who hasn't decided what he believes,but that is because I take into consideration all the possibilities
i know of. I may be,and probably am, wrong but why worry about all this? If there is a god he can send me to burn
and if there isn't I am content with rotting in the ground. Religion is a dangerous thought and should not be worried about so much.
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
So is it not even worth considering that we are in fact a simulation? Possibly made by humans, or some intelligent form of life far different from our own, it's even possible that the creators of this simulation don't even acknowledge our presence, or maybe they're only interested in the universe millions of years from now, they may be interested in something else and we're just in the background.
A good indication that we are a simulation is time travel has been proven to work, there are people who are building the mechanics for time travel as we speak, and although we are still far from being able to use these machines we still know that one day they will be done in the future, so if there's going to be time traveling in the future then where are the time travelers? Well the theory behind this method of time travel requires there to be an existence outside of our own dimension, it requires there to be more dimensions, and the only possible way of there not being an existence outside of this dimension is if we're in a simulation.
So if this is true (and if you think about it, it's incredibly likely that it is) then the big bang was merely the beginning of the simulation, someone just pressed go and the computer began its work. That's what I believe.
Sorry, but my King James doesn't mention hemophillia. It does say Kain dwelt in the land of Nod and took a wife. Where'd she come from btw if it was just adam and eve? Musta been his sister.
I've read the bible, the quran, Toa te ching, I ching, bagdahavagita, and dianetics.
Perhaps you should reread the bible. I recommend the new testament.
BTW your sig could just as easily be turned on you.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Just to recap the thread, th OP wanted some information about the beginnings of the universe. He specifically asked for non-religious explanantions. Religion crashed the party anyway.
So since this thread has become a furball, I'd like to put forth a theory on aetheism that's bound to anger both sides.
God created the world and man
God saw that his creation had become corrupt, so he washed it away with 40 days and nights of rain and flood (except Noah).
God looked and saw again that his creation ahd become corrupt. So unto them he sent his son Jesus to try and teach them.
God looked again upon his creation and saw corruption. Well flooding didn't work and neither did teaching. And so god created aetheists so that his followers might hear voices of rationality and that they might keep religious ferver grounded.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
then what are the unsure people for? I have thought about that stimulation thing before and I reached the conclusion that if I don't really exist I exist as a thought and in that way I not only exist but am an imaginary person. That means If the controler of this stimulation
wanted me to be I could be,and might as well be,a god under the control of a law.
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
Btw, no, many religions have multiple gods... Norse, Greek, Romans, Buddhism, etc...
the more I think about it, the more I am an atheist... I'm not really saying there isn't a supreme being, but I find it ridiculously farfetched for the argument that "God" is benevolent and that "God" can think with the fact that he doesn't have any physical form ( I don't think gas can think, trees probably can't either, etc... But I guess there's no proof for that )...
Here's a question, ( o btw, I find what that Jester guy talks about the theory of something consciousness is alot more logical )... We have a brain, and it is shown that the brain is what allows us to think, identify, perceive... Suppose a person sees blue as grey and grey as grey, aren't those 2 colors grey then? A table as a chair? Girl as a Guy or vice versa? Hell as Heaven? Suppose someone enjoys Hell, then wouldn't that make it heaven to them? Would "God" magically make him suffer eventhough he's naturally incapable of pain? But then that would make "God" sadistic... Anyways, doesn't it really just all boil down to consciousness/perception? My universe is different from yours... ( Note- the reason I used that hell=heaven comparison is this, forces are always acting on us, in other words at the moment we should be feeling pain, but we're not because we've adapted to it and don't perceive it as such... )
Anyways, what makes alot more sense to me would be that the law is god or rather the only true supreme being... If "God" truly exists, he would be govern by a law, which I would call the law of existence... Can you truly say we exist if we can't even percieve our own existence? Anyways, I like the idea of yin and yang better, if applied to this, maybe existence came to be, because of us and all other things. In other words, at the same time "existence" is or has created us, we are creating "existence"... the framework in which we live in...