Christians believe that God created the world and all living things. They picture God as having three forms or aspects: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Hoy Spirit, who carries out God's will on earth. They believe that God sent Jesus to tell people about God's love, and that Jesus died to forgive humanity's sins. They also believe that Jesus will return at the end of time, when there will be a New Creation. The following creation story is found in Genesis 1 and 2 in the Old Testament section of the Bible, the Christian holy book.
In the beginning, God created the universe. At first the earth was shapeless and covered in darkness, and God's spirit hovered over the waters. God said, "Let there be light". And there was light. God divided the day from the night, naming them ' day' and 'night'. This was the first day and God saw that it was good. On the second day God made the heavens to separate the water from the earth and on the third day he raised the dry land up from the waters below the heavens and commanded the earth to bring forth all plants. God saw that it was good. God then made the greater light for the day and the lesser light for the night, and he saw hat it was good. This was the fourth day. On the fifth day God commanded the waters to fill with living creatures and the air to fill with birds. And he was pleased with what he saw. On the sixth day God commanded the earth to bring forth all kinds of living creatures and he saw that it was good. God then said " Let us make man in our own image". So God created man and woman in his own likeness and gave them authority over all living things. God looked at everything he had made and was very pleased. On the seventh day, God rested.
Now the first man, Adam, was created by God out of soil and given life by God's breath. Adam named all the animals and birds that God had made, But Adam had no companion of his own so God caused hem to fall into a deep sleep and created woman - Eve- from one of Adam's ribs. God told them that together they could live in the Garden of Eden eating whatever they wished except the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But the most cunning animal, which God had made -the serpent -, tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. So Adam and Eve both ate and suddenly saw what they had done ant that they were naked. Covering themselves with fig leaves they tried to hide from God. But God knew of their sin and called out to them. Then he cursed the serpent and Adam and Eve, and in shame they were driven from the beautiful Garden. God told Adam he would now have to toil and sweat to work the very soil from which he had been created. Then God blocked the entrance to the Garden with a great fiery sword so that no one could enter in.
For Christians the most important part of this story is the final creation of human beings. Since they were made in God's image and given power over all living things, Christian believe that humans are the most important of God's creations. Some Christians think that this means humans can use the world as they wish, while other believe that God intended humans to care for an look after the work. Christians use the story of 'the fall' to explain why suffering and death have entered the world. But they believe that God will create a new and better world where those who have tried to live as God wants, will live for ever.
Not flaming dark mist, just pointing out that any view put forth in this post can not be supported by evidence. In which case, it can always be defeated by "no it isn't".
you no that works for your religion too also,the only real reason your christian is the fact you were born into a sociaty whos main religion is this if you where a bhuddist you would support that if just as much confidence
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
Who says anything needed to come into being and was not already here? One theory is that the Big Bang is part of a cycle: Everything explodes, flies away, and slows down and comes back together and repeats the process all over again.
That theory is currently under fire. Recent observations suggest that the expansion isn't slowing down, it's speeding up. This gets into quantum physics again and dark matter.
I think subscribing to any of the current theories of the universe's origin requires as much faith as a belief in the supreme.
That being said, I think most of you guys missed the original intent of the thread. He was asking where it ALL started. Those who say GODDIDIT fail to realize that you've answered nothing. Where did God come from? If God isn't bound by the laws of matter and logic, why should the universe be? If we keep the current discussion going in this thread, it will go in circles indefinately.
Personally, I believe the answer is a lot less complicated than we think, but we just haven't reached our full capacity as a race yet. I think a lot of these questions we can't grasp currently will be elementary in the future. That's why I think it is pointless to even speculate about something such as the universe's origins.
I like that computer simulation idea, though. At least you attempted to answer the OP's question.
Why can't everything just have been here for eternity? Why did the universe have to be created? Of course, the religious have to believe that everything was created because there is a story of creation. If the universe has always been there, then how does that defy the laws of thermodynamics? It doesn't. I believe that the universe collapses upon itself and then expands and that there is a limited amount of energy and matter (which are inter-changeable ) in the universe. If this is what the universe does do, then that explains why scientists have come up with the big bang theory; because they were looking for a reason why the universe was expanding.
we would never be able to reach our full capacity-we would die out before it
Yea, I worded that poorly. I just meant that we are an undeveloped race at the moment, and as we continue to advance, these questions will become much less abstract.
but eventually a crazy person would make another crazy solution and it would start again untill a more advance race rises up
You're missing my point. I think the answer to the universe will be common knowledge, with little to no room for speculation. Those with a "crazy" solution would be dismissed.
That theory is currently under fire. Recent observations suggest that the expansion isn't slowing down, it's speeding up. This gets into quantum physics again and dark matter.
The big crunch is the simplest explaination, but for other theories that take into the account dark energy (which is a bit different from dark matter) include particle-anti-particle creation on a much larger scale, as an example. But these particles may not necessarily be created so much as emerge from the other dimensions which we cannot yet observe. The ones predicted by string theory.
I think subscribing to any of the current theories of the universe's origin requires as much faith as a belief in the supreme. That being said, I think most of you guys missed the original intent of the thread. He was asking where it ALL started. Those who say GODDIDIT fail to realize that you've answered nothing. Where did God come from? If God isn't bound by the laws of matter and logic, why should the universe be? If we keep the current discussion going in this thread, it will go in circles indefinately. Personally, I believe the answer is a lot less complicated than we think, but we just haven't reached our full capacity as a race yet. I think a lot of these questions we can't grasp currently will be elementary in the future. That's why I think it is pointless to even speculate about something such as the universe's origins. I like that computer simulation idea, though. At least you attempted to answer the OP's question.
Thank you! Finally a little bit of sanity in this thread. What took you so long, Joe?
I think subscribing to any of the current theories of the universe's origin requires as much faith as a belief in the supreme. That being said, I think most of you guys missed the original intent of the thread. He was asking where it ALL started. Those who say GODDIDIT fail to realize that you've answered nothing. Where did God come from? If God isn't bound by the laws of matter and logic, why should the universe be? If we keep the current discussion going in this thread, it will go in circles indefinately. Personally, I believe the answer is a lot less complicated than we think, but we just haven't reached our full capacity as a race yet. I think a lot of these questions we can't grasp currently will be elementary in the future. That's why I think it is pointless to even speculate about something such as the universe's origins. I like that computer simulation idea, though. At least you attempted to answer the OP's question.
Then it's not a matter of the GODDIDIT people missing the point, it's a matter of you believing that maybe the universe isn't tied to laws of physical reality.
I respect your viewpoints Modjoe, but I find it a little bit disconcerting that you often seem intent on disagreeing with religious viewpoints to the point that it almost becomes demeaning. You seem so often to attempt to take a logical high ground with religious folk, but it usually seems like you aren't willing to even entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe the religious folk may be correct.
I understand that you went to Catholic school and religion was forced upon you, so you are a little bit jaded by it...but that is the past, I think you should reexamine it without the contempt that you obviously have for it. And please don't try to say that you aren't contemptuous of religion, your postings on the subject almost always have undertones of disgust for organized religion.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I think subscribing to any of the current theories of the universe's origin requires as much faith as a belief in the supreme. That being said, I think most of you guys missed the original intent of the thread. He was asking where it ALL started. Those who say GODDIDIT fail to realize that you've answered nothing. Where did God come from? If God isn't bound by the laws of matter and logic, why should the universe be? If we keep the current discussion going in this thread, it will go in circles indefinately. Personally, I believe the answer is a lot less complicated than we think, but we just haven't reached our full capacity as a race yet. I think a lot of these questions we can't grasp currently will be elementary in the future. That's why I think it is pointless to even speculate about something such as the universe's origins. I like that computer simulation idea, though. At least you attempted to answer the OP's question.
Then it's not a matter of the GODDIDIT people missing the point, it's a matter of you believing that maybe the universe isn't tied to laws of physical reality.
I respect your viewpoints Modjoe, but I find it a little bit disconcerting that you often seem intent on disagreeing with religious viewpoints to the point that it almost becomes demeaning. You seem so often to attempt to take a logical high ground with religious folk, but it usually seems like you aren't willing to even entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe the religious folk may be correct.
I understand that you went to Catholic school and religion was forced upon you, so you are a little bit jaded by it...but that is the past, I think you should reexamine it without the contempt that you obviously have for it. And please don't try to say that you aren't contemptuous of religion, your postings on the subject almost always have undertones of disgust for organized religion.
I'm not going to deny that I belittle organized religion. I'm not sure if I've ever specifically outlined exactly what I believe: I'm an agnostic with leanings toward theism. Deep down, I really do give some higher intelligence the benefit of the doubt. The universe is a very complex and ginormous thing, and I have a hard time swallowing the fact that God is a fabrication. I guess I'm formally an agnostic that leans toward deism.
That being said, I can't in good faith even entertain the possibility of a God that most theists subscribe to. The universe is way, way too big for some higher intelligence to play such an active role in our miniscule lives. I believe if there is a God he probably got the ball rolling and let nature have its course. Why would God create this huge space, then create us for the purpose of basking in his glory? It just paints God up in an all too human manner.
I think people should develop a personal set of beliefs about the issue. Every religion will have at least one or two things you disagree with, so why label yourself? It just constricts what I believe is a personal pursuit of enlightenment.
And I wasn't trying to say that the universe isn't bound by a set of laws, I'm just pointing out that goddidit doesn't answer the OP's question.
Then it's not a matter of the GODDIDIT people missing the point, it's a matter of you believing that maybe the universe isn't tied to laws of physical reality.
If the universe is tied to the laws of physics, then god cannot exist.
And if the universe isn't tied to the laws of physics then ModJoe already covered this.
Anyway, Evolution in of itself is rather obvious, I don't think it really needs validation. How is evolution defined? If I remember from Biology class it can be defined as non-random change in the frequency of genes . So if you believe in religion, you should believe in evolution. I know it sounds weird, i made a post about this before, then the servers crashed. But if you believe in Adam and Eve and then they had kids and what not, you then had genetic variation caused by crossing over of chromosomes in the gamete production stage. And you know what, fast-forward, to current time, the reason we have black people, asian people, pale white people and what not is because of evolution.
But the thing is, evolution is just a product, it's not a motor, evolution doesn't cause the gene frequencies to change, evolution is the name of a process that's all. The motor behind evolution are the selection pressures. One could say one example of a selection pressure is the sun's intensity, thus, people orginiating from near the equator are dark, those far away from the equator are very light. This was a selection pressure, because too much sun = increased risk of skin cancer, too little sun = deficiency in Viamin D and you get screwed. Black people have so much melanin that blocks out most of the sun except what they need for Vitamin D production, people in like Sweden barely get any sun, so they should block the least amount of sun possible to make sure they can make vitamin D production. My lab that I work in is trying to prove how effective Vitamin D production is through the diet. So I'll get back to you on that one.
When someone talks about the theory of evolution, it is true, you can't be religious (i.e. believe in Adam and Eve) without believing in evolution, however, the problem that people have with evolution is the whole humans came from monkeys. When I think of this question, humans came from monkeys, I think to myself what were the selection pressures that caused monkeys to change their gene frequencies in such a way that lead to humans. I would love to find out the selection pressures that caused that. If you ask about what are teh selection pressures that caused black and white skin, one factor is the intesity of the sun. But what are teh selective pressures that lead to that.
I can go on and on and on about this. I personally have no problems believing the premise of evolution and that humans do evolve, animals do evolve, I think it affirms my religious beliefs, but I do have problems with monkeys to humans because I'm not so sure what selection pressures there were.
Hmm, to answer the original poster's question. I'd say God or the entity which created the universe, but when I think of universe I don't think of physical objects, I think of the laws of physics, who put in the program that masses attract others, why the fuck do masses attract other masses, who put that program in. It's like when game developers create a 3-d environment they put in physics. So who put it in, what put it in. I'd say the entity we refer to as God or whatever the hell creared it. That's how it came to be, God was doing what an entity like God would do and X years later, a bunch of nerds are arguing over this very same question on www.mmorpg.com.
I'm out, i have to be at work in 6 hours and i'ts 2 am, blah. I also think science goes hand in hand with religion, but i'm weird so feel free to throw stuff at me.
PlanoMM What Ye about? (that's a line right? lol
Cryomatrix
P.S. I could go on much longer but i should have gone to sleep 30 minutes ago.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
If so, how is it possible? How can you "rewind" to the infiny?
If not, errr, how can there be no time? Nada, nothing, so you have nothing, not even time...and then you have the beginning; yet nothing before? That doesn't make more sense either since nothing means nothing, not even the capacity to create something...err...since if you have a capacity, you don't have nothing...or can something exist without time? Ahhhh
At least, to my flawed logic...I am bouncing around on this...and since I can't find the way out, I stop wondering and just appreciate the current time...and believe in God!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
This thread is amusing. I wonder how many posts it will take for us to..
a) discovery the beginnings of the universe.
b) disprove the existence of god.
c) End centuries of scientific, religious, and philosophical study.
My guess, 4,242
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
how would you know.. you're just speculating...
I bet if u didnt have a brain you wouldn't be able to think or rather communicate...
Christians believe that God created the world and all living things. They picture God as having three forms or aspects: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Hoy Spirit, who carries out God's will on earth. They believe that God sent Jesus to tell people about God's love, and that Jesus died to forgive humanity's sins. They also believe that Jesus will return at the end of time, when there will be a New Creation. The following creation story is found in Genesis 1 and 2 in the Old Testament section of the Bible, the Christian holy book.
In the beginning, God created the universe. At first the earth was shapeless and covered in darkness, and God's spirit hovered over the waters. God said, "Let there be light". And there was light. God divided the day from the night, naming them ' day' and 'night'. This was the first day and God saw that it was good. On the second day God made the heavens to separate the water from the earth and on the third day he raised the dry land up from the waters below the heavens and commanded the earth to bring forth all plants. God saw that it was good. God then made the greater light for the day and the lesser light for the night, and he saw hat it was good. This was the fourth day. On the fifth day God commanded the waters to fill with living creatures and the air to fill with birds. And he was pleased with what he saw. On the sixth day God commanded the earth to bring forth all kinds of living creatures and he saw that it was good. God then said " Let us make man in our own image". So God created man and woman in his own likeness and gave them authority over all living things. God looked at everything he had made and was very pleased. On the seventh day, God rested.
Now the first man, Adam, was created by God out of soil and given life by God's breath. Adam named all the animals and birds that God had made, But Adam had no companion of his own so God caused hem to fall into a deep sleep and created woman - Eve- from one of Adam's ribs. God told them that together they could live in the Garden of Eden eating whatever they wished except the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. But the most cunning animal, which God had made -the serpent -, tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. So Adam and Eve both ate and suddenly saw what they had done ant that they were naked. Covering themselves with fig leaves they tried to hide from God. But God knew of their sin and called out to them. Then he cursed the serpent and Adam and Eve, and in shame they were driven from the beautiful Garden. God told Adam he would now have to toil and sweat to work the very soil from which he had been created. Then God blocked the entrance to the Garden with a great fiery sword so that no one could enter in.
For Christians the most important part of this story is the final creation of human beings. Since they were made in God's image and given power over all living things, Christian believe that humans are the most important of God's creations. Some Christians think that this means humans can use the world as they wish, while other believe that God intended humans to care for an look after the work. Christians use the story of 'the fall' to explain why suffering and death have entered the world. But they believe that God will create a new and better world where those who have tried to live as God wants, will live for ever.
AND THIS IS WHAT I Believe
The Big MMORPG List
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
I think subscribing to any of the current theories of the universe's origin requires as much faith as a belief in the supreme.
That being said, I think most of you guys missed the original intent of the thread. He was asking where it ALL started. Those who say GODDIDIT fail to realize that you've answered nothing. Where did God come from? If God isn't bound by the laws of matter and logic, why should the universe be? If we keep the current discussion going in this thread, it will go in circles indefinately.
Personally, I believe the answer is a lot less complicated than we think, but we just haven't reached our full capacity as a race yet. I think a lot of these questions we can't grasp currently will be elementary in the future. That's why I think it is pointless to even speculate about something such as the universe's origins.
I like that computer simulation idea, though. At least you attempted to answer the OP's question.
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My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
Now isn't that the most logical explanation?
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My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
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My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
all the same it's just an explanation with nothing to back it up with,but ideas
(but then again,so is all of this)
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
Then it's not a matter of the GODDIDIT people missing the point, it's a matter of you believing that maybe the universe isn't tied to laws of physical reality.
I respect your viewpoints Modjoe, but I find it a little bit disconcerting that you often seem intent on disagreeing with religious viewpoints to the point that it almost becomes demeaning. You seem so often to attempt to take a logical high ground with religious folk, but it usually seems like you aren't willing to even entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe the religious folk may be correct.
I understand that you went to Catholic school and religion was forced upon you, so you are a little bit jaded by it...but that is the past, I think you should reexamine it without the contempt that you obviously have for it. And please don't try to say that you aren't contemptuous of religion, your postings on the subject almost always have undertones of disgust for organized religion.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Then it's not a matter of the GODDIDIT people missing the point, it's a matter of you believing that maybe the universe isn't tied to laws of physical reality.
I respect your viewpoints Modjoe, but I find it a little bit disconcerting that you often seem intent on disagreeing with religious viewpoints to the point that it almost becomes demeaning. You seem so often to attempt to take a logical high ground with religious folk, but it usually seems like you aren't willing to even entertain the thought that maybe, just maybe the religious folk may be correct.
I understand that you went to Catholic school and religion was forced upon you, so you are a little bit jaded by it...but that is the past, I think you should reexamine it without the contempt that you obviously have for it. And please don't try to say that you aren't contemptuous of religion, your postings on the subject almost always have undertones of disgust for organized religion.
I'm not going to deny that I belittle organized religion. I'm not sure if I've ever specifically outlined exactly what I believe: I'm an agnostic with leanings toward theism. Deep down, I really do give some higher intelligence the benefit of the doubt. The universe is a very complex and ginormous thing, and I have a hard time swallowing the fact that God is a fabrication. I guess I'm formally an agnostic that leans toward deism.
That being said, I can't in good faith even entertain the possibility of a God that most theists subscribe to. The universe is way, way too big for some higher intelligence to play such an active role in our miniscule lives. I believe if there is a God he probably got the ball rolling and let nature have its course. Why would God create this huge space, then create us for the purpose of basking in his glory? It just paints God up in an all too human manner.
I think people should develop a personal set of beliefs about the issue. Every religion will have at least one or two things you disagree with, so why label yourself? It just constricts what I believe is a personal pursuit of enlightenment.
And I wasn't trying to say that the universe isn't bound by a set of laws, I'm just pointing out that goddidit doesn't answer the OP's question.
Sorry for the hijack, Infliction.
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And if the universe isn't tied to the laws of physics then ModJoe already covered this.
Anyway, Evolution in of itself is rather obvious, I don't think it really needs validation. How is evolution defined? If I remember from Biology class it can be defined as non-random change in the frequency of genes . So if you believe in religion, you should believe in evolution. I know it sounds weird, i made a post about this before, then the servers crashed. But if you believe in Adam and Eve and then they had kids and what not, you then had genetic variation caused by crossing over of chromosomes in the gamete production stage. And you know what, fast-forward, to current time, the reason we have black people, asian people, pale white people and what not is because of evolution.
But the thing is, evolution is just a product, it's not a motor, evolution doesn't cause the gene frequencies to change, evolution is the name of a process that's all. The motor behind evolution are the selection pressures. One could say one example of a selection pressure is the sun's intensity, thus, people orginiating from near the equator are dark, those far away from the equator are very light. This was a selection pressure, because too much sun = increased risk of skin cancer, too little sun = deficiency in Viamin D and you get screwed. Black people have so much melanin that blocks out most of the sun except what they need for Vitamin D production, people in like Sweden barely get any sun, so they should block the least amount of sun possible to make sure they can make vitamin D production. My lab that I work in is trying to prove how effective Vitamin D production is through the diet. So I'll get back to you on that one.
When someone talks about the theory of evolution, it is true, you can't be religious (i.e. believe in Adam and Eve) without believing in evolution, however, the problem that people have with evolution is the whole humans came from monkeys. When I think of this question, humans came from monkeys, I think to myself what were the selection pressures that caused monkeys to change their gene frequencies in such a way that lead to humans. I would love to find out the selection pressures that caused that. If you ask about what are teh selection pressures that caused black and white skin, one factor is the intesity of the sun. But what are teh selective pressures that lead to that.
I can go on and on and on about this. I personally have no problems believing the premise of evolution and that humans do evolve, animals do evolve, I think it affirms my religious beliefs, but I do have problems with monkeys to humans because I'm not so sure what selection pressures there were.
Hmm, to answer the original poster's question. I'd say God or the entity which created the universe, but when I think of universe I don't think of physical objects, I think of the laws of physics, who put in the program that masses attract others, why the fuck do masses attract other masses, who put that program in. It's like when game developers create a 3-d environment they put in physics. So who put it in, what put it in. I'd say the entity we refer to as God or whatever the hell creared it. That's how it came to be, God was doing what an entity like God would do and X years later, a bunch of nerds are arguing over this very same question on www.mmorpg.com.
I'm out, i have to be at work in 6 hours and i'ts 2 am, blah. I also think science goes hand in hand with religion, but i'm weird so feel free to throw stuff at me.
PlanoMM What Ye about? (that's a line right? lol
Cryomatrix
P.S. I could go on much longer but i should have gone to sleep 30 minutes ago.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Was time always there?
If so, how is it possible? How can you "rewind" to the infiny?
If not, errr, how can there be no time? Nada, nothing, so you have nothing, not even time...and then you have the beginning; yet nothing before? That doesn't make more sense either since nothing means nothing, not even the capacity to create something...err...since if you have a capacity, you don't have nothing...or can something exist without time? Ahhhh
At least, to my flawed logic...I am bouncing around on this...and since I can't find the way out, I stop wondering and just appreciate the current time...and believe in God!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren